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CDC Says Flu Epidemic Slowing Down; Main Suspect in the Benghazi Attack Released; Casey Anthony Back in Court
Aired January 12, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: It is 3:00 p.m. in the east coast, 12:00 p.m. on the west coast. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining us. I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield. And here are the top stories we're following right now in the CNN NEWSROOM.
We start with the flu and new information from the centers for disease control. The CDC says even though 24 states and New York City are now reporting increased flu activity, the spread of the flu appears to be slowing down, at heat of in some areas. It is still a very dangerous situation. Twenty young people under 1 have now died from flu-related symptoms.
Our Athena Jones is live at a flu clinic in Falls Church, Virginia.
And Athena, I guess you're seeing a lot of people coming in for flu shots?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was really busy earlier today. It's calmed down now. We've spoken to the folks here who say just in the first 12 days of January, they've seen a big increase in the number of people coming in to get the flu shot or calling about getting a flu shot. We saw some people here earlier getting a flu shot. We were gun for about an hour. Five more people came we're told.
Virginia is one of the states where the flu is widespread. And so, places like this have seen a lot of traffic. They've also said that more than half of the people coming in already have some sort of symptoms. So they're coming to see if they have the flu to get treatment for the flu.
One big question folks are asking is whether there are enough vaccinations left with all of this emphasis on the flu. Doctors say there are millions of vaccines available. Some 135 million doses were manufactured and only about 112 million people have received the dose, so, there are still plenty to go around. There may be spot shortages. But if people shop around, they should be able to find the flu shot -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: All right, Athena Jones talking to us from a clinic there in Falls Church where people areal rolling up their sleeves and taking a little bit of a pinch to fight off the flu.
Thank you very much. In just a couple minutes, I'll have a conversation with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. But he says and the best way for all of us to defend ourselves against the flu.
Meanwhile, disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong reportedly will come clean tomorrow. According to an article in "USA Today," Armstrong will tell Oprah Winfrey the truth about doping during his years as the world's top cyclist. The paper says the interview will be taped tomorrow at Armstrong's home in Austin, Texas. And it will be broadcast on Thursday.
A boy abducted in Indiana has been found in Minnesota. That's good, but 19 years later. The man now 24 was found living under an assumed name. Police say that he had been abducted by his paternal grandparents while his mother was living out of her car. Police say the grandparents could now face federal charges.
Allyn Rose is competing to become Miss America tonight but win or lose, the current Miss D.C., has decided to undergo a preventive double mastectomy after the pageant at the urging of her father. Her mother, grandmother, and aunt, all died from the disease. And although she is young and healthy, she may be predisposed to get that disease that killed her family members.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: You've gone through the genetic testing and you have decided to have a double mastectomy before cancer hits.
ALLYN ROSE, MISS D.C.: Yes. I just -- I want to be proactive. And it's something I'm not willing to wait around to see if he it happens to me to have a family history something that something so prevalent in my family and to know this took my mom when I was 16-years-old. I don't want to put my daughter through that some day. I don't want to put my husband through that. I had to watch my dad battle losing the woman he spent the last 25 years of his life with. It's not worth it to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: We should point out the medical community is divided over such radical preemptive surgery at such an early age.
All right, let's get back to our top story. The deadly flu outbreak. Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been following this outbreak and he has been following it very closely.
SAVIDGE: Sanjay, nice to see you go en.
DOCTOR SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You too.
SAVIDGE: So, deep into the flu season here and I guess the question I have is, how do you know if you've got just a bad cold or whether you have the flu? GUPTA: It can be hard to tell. But, there's a couple of sort of pearls I always remember. With flu, things tend to come on pretty suddenly. When you think about all the various symptoms, chest tightness, the cough, the fever, the muscle aches, you could be fine on Tuesday morning and Wednesday afternoon, you can't even get out of bed. So, it comes on quickly and all the symptoms come on at once.
With cold, they can overlap a little bit but tend to come on one, a little bit of the other. So, it's not quite as intense. This particular flu as well just lasts a long time, seven days on average. So, seven days, you're going to notice that's different than a cold.
SAVIDGE: So, if I get the flu, should I automatically go to the doctor, go to a hospital?
GUPTA: No. No, in fact, most people aren't going to need to go to the doctor or the hospital. Most people need to be at home getting plenty of fluids and rest and letting your immune system sort of build up and try and fight this. That's going to be sort of key for most people.
One caveat there is that if you're taking things to bring down your fever like acetaminophen and you are also taking over the counter cold medications, be a little mindful of the labels. You could double up on an acetaminophen pretty easily and start getting some doses. So, do read the labels.
But besides that, you know, staying at home not only is good for you but probably good for other people around you. You're not infecting others.
SAVIDGE: I man, should I get a flu shot if I haven't been infected and so far been healthy?
GUPTA: Yes, there's still time to get a shot. It takes a couple of weeks for the flu shots to actually build up enough protection in your body. Now, you are get closer to the end of flu season, you may be out of the window. But now, we're about midway through. So you've still got plenty of time.
SAVIDGE: If I had the flu, got over it, should I still get a shot or am I now OK?
GUPTA: This is one of those good news, bad news questions. The bad news is you had the flu and you had a miserable several days. But, you are now immunized, at least against this strain of flu. So, if you diagnosed with the flu, you're sure you had it, you don't need a flu shot.
SAVIDGE: All right. I want to switch gears while we got a little bit of time left, talking about sleep medicines. The FDA changed its recommendation for women especially, talking about ambient and some other things. Why did they do that?
GUPTA: Well, some say this has been a long time coming. I mean, you've probably reported on some of the bizarre sort of side effects that ambient could have in people in terms of eating and getting up, in terms of driving even. More specifically, they found in women much more so than men a full eight hours after the medication was taken, 10 milligram dose they still had high enough levels of the active greens in their bodies that they just thought the drowsiness would impair driving.
Now, some would say look, if you take one of these sleeping pills, you got give yourself enough time to sleep. If you're waking up without sleeping fully, you'll still have high levels of this medication. What they have basically done say look for women, just cut the dose. Instead of 10 milligrams, make it five milligrams and they shouldn't have as much of this circulating drug in their body after several hours.
SAVIDGE: And this is what, just due to the difference between men and women?
GUPTA: Yes, they're not entirely sure why because, you know, men and women are going to metabolize drugs differently. But, they did do the testing and they found that in 15 percent of women, they were having excessive doses still of the, in, the blood after eight hours and men it was around three percent.
So, the recommendation is, you know, everyone should -- could cut down on the dose here. But for women in particular, go to five milligrams and men should discuss it with their doctor.
SAVIDGE: OK. You've had your flu shot.
GUPTA: I've had my flu shot. I got kids vaccine and I feel good.
SAVIDGE: Yes. I have mine too, but I feel like I'm surrounded so I'm hoping.
GUPTA: Wash those hands, Martin.
SAVIDGE: Very good advice. Well, it's a big question. Why was the one man held in connection with the deadly attack on the American consulate in Libya let go? We'll dig into that one.
Plus, it's a new case involving a familiar face, Casey Anthony. She is back. She was cleared on charges she murdered her daughter. So what is she doing in a courtroom now?
SAVIDGE: We are learning more about what Barack Obama, that is President Barack Obama, second cabinet will look like. The news faces include his nomination of John Kerry at state, Chuck Hagel at defense, Jack Lew takes over treasury and then the president still has to fill the labor secretary post.
We're told that some of the first-timers who are sticking around for the second term include the attorney general, that's Eric Holder, Health secretary Kathleen Sibelius and Veterans affairs secretary Eric Shinseki.
Joining me now is Steven Clemons. He is the editor-at-large at the Atlantic.
Steven, thanks for coming in on a Saturday.
STEVEN CLEMONS, WASHINGTON EDITOR AT-LARGE, THE ATLANTIC: Thank you. Good to be with you.
SAVIDGE: The president's being criticized. We've heard this and said this actually a couple of times, you know, because of his new cabinet picks, that they're all white men and that it really doesn't reflect sort of the makeup of America. Is that fair?
CLEMONS: Well, I think when you look at a portion of a cabinet, you might be able to make that argument, and I don't think President Obama is saying the first four years that he did the diversity thing and now he's moving beyond that to bring in, you know, a lot of elder white gentleman. I think if Chuck Hagel with his accomplishments in leadership happened to be a gay Hispanic man, Barack Obama would be appointing him. And I think the president is trying to bring in people right now who have very demonstrated expertise in the areas to help build out the cabinet in very important ways at a fragile time for the country.
That said, I think you have other positions. I think the secretary of commerce position is out there. One of the leading candidates is Fred Hochberg who happens to one of the highest ranking gay Americans as chairman of the export import bank here in Washington. There are others that the president may appoint to kind of fill out the broad diversity of his cabinet. So, I do think this is overplayed but I understand people's concerns.
SAVIDGE: Right. In other words this is not an overt attempt to overlook people. This is just a matter of what, hick looking for the best people for the job?
CLEMONS: Absolutely. And you know, Susan Rice was very clearly the preferred candidate for the secretary of state position before John Kerry. And so, I don't think the president is you know, starting out saying well, I need an African-American woman in this slot and that's where I should start. Or in the case of the position of the secretary of defense, another leading candidate happened to be Michele Flournoy (ph) who is a friend of mine and I have tremendous respect for here. And I think she would have been a competent leader. I think Hagel will be a better leader. But that said, she was great. But the reason to appoint her was not because she was a mother and a woman.
The reason to appoint Michele Flournoy, to think about is that she is an exceptional strategist and somebody who really knows the Pentagon. And I think that's where we need to begin our discussion about all of these candidates. Not their particular ethnic background or gender, but rather, you know, what they bring to the job. And I think there's a great deal of diversity out there. And just like at the roulette wheel, you know, the president has come up with, you know, three Caucasians at the front but it's pretty good to bethel diversify the rest of the cabinet.
SAVIDGE: Let's talk about Chuck Hagel because you were just speaking about him as the nominee for secretary of defense. I thought initially, it was going to be pretty smooth sailing for him and now it appears it will not be. And I'm wondering, do you think that actually he may not get the job?
CLEMONS: No, I actually think he will get the job. I think that the way these things work and his name was somehow floated out or released out to the press, that many organized interest groups that this had a problem with Hagel tried to create a very big spike and concern use social media and the networks they had with the very little -- there was not a great deal of attention but in a way to throw the president off his game and interest in Chuck Hagel.
Once the president puts his power and stamp behind a nominee, it changes the game entirely. It changes the calculus for United States senators who want to either support or take on the president's choice in such a key position. And I would argue that if you scratch beneath the surface, senator Hagel will be confirmed and the -- those holding out and waiting for where the winds are blowing will blow in the direction of the president on large part.
SAVIDGE: All right, Steven Clemens, stay right there because we are going to continue our discussion especially about Chuck Hagel in just a minute because a lot of people are saying that the president's choice for defense is not really the man for the job. The debate over former Senator Chuck Hagel's confirmation is on.
And then this, the golden globes air tomorrow. We'll take an inside look at what happens when you -- well, this is totally different, when you drop a camera from space. You could say it's out of this world. The big whoops coming up.
SAVIDGE: All right. We're continuing the discussion we started before the break. President Obama's choice to be the next secretary of defense is finding himself, well, on the defensive. Chuck Hagel is the former Republican senator and Vietnam War veteran. He has been tapped to replace Leon Panetta, but you a remark he made back in 1996 about an openly gay ambassador has drawn fire of gay and lesbian groups.
To that end, we're joined again by Steven Clemons of the Atlantic and also Heather by Cronk who is the managing director of get equal, an advocacy group for lesbian and gay Americans. And I'll point out both of you are gay. But you disagree though on Mr. Hagel.
So thank you both for joining us.
Let's listen first to what the president had to say about Chuck Hagel and then we'll talk on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Chuck Hagel's leadership of our military would be historic. He would be the first person of enlisted rank to serve as secretary of defense, one of the few secretaries who have been wounded in war and the first Vietnam veteran to lead the department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: So Heather, if he's qualified for the job, and we all acknowledge he made the remark that he made two decades ago and he has since apologized and has evolved I guess you could say in his thinking, or we believe he has about gay people. What's wrong with him being the secretary of defense now?
HEATHER CRONK, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF GET EQUAL: Well, Martin, that's a great question. And actually, what I've done and what a lot of folks across the country have done is to look back at Chuck Hagel's voting record in the Senate. You know, we can talk a lot about whether he's evolved and what his heart says and whether he knows gay people and that's all well and good.
But I'm actually more interested in when he had the opportunity to take a public vote, how did he vote? And when I looked at those scorecards, not only looking at LGBT issues for lesbian gay, bisexual and transgender Americans, but a whole host of issues, his record isn't good. Over his course of service in the Senate, he actually averaged a 4 percent from the human rights its campaign on LGBT issues. And if you look even more broadly at civil rights issues from the leadership conference on civil rights, he averaged a 14 percent.
And so, my question about Chuck Hagel isn't whether he's a good guy. I'm sure he is. But is this man not only suitable for the candidate -- for the cabinet but does he reflects the Obama administration's stated core values? And for me, I still have a lot of questions about that.
SAVIDGE: I want to bring in Steven. And I'm wondering this, Steven. Don't gay members of the military have reason then, to be concerned knowing that the gains made in diversity and equality in the military could perhaps come under the leadership of a man who saw things differently?
CLEMONS: Well, I think Heather's questions are legitimate and fair. And I think that that is exactly what Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings like this are all about is to pose questions and get answers where that person is.
That said, I don't want to make this about me, but I happen to have -- I am a gay American. I am involved in national security foreign policy issues and I worked in the United States Senate for a democrat. But I've known Hagel for years. And it just so happened I wrote about a discussion that I had had about the efforts which sometimes look dicey to repeal don't ask, don't tell two years ago with senator Hagel and I wrote about it.
So, before the current controversy, I wrote about Hagel's support of repeal of don't ask, don't tell. He and I had a long discussion about how appalled I was that there were gay translators being purged out of our intelligence agencies because they were gay at that time. And people like Mike Mullen and others were trying to be great leaders at that time, a close friend of Chuck Hagel. At that very delicate time, Hagel told me he was firmly supportive.
Since then, just this last week, Hagel's met with 24 U.S. senators so far. He is going to be meeting with more this next week. And in that, he's basically said that he strongly supports LGBT families. He strongly supports the ongoing alignment and repeal of all the residue of don't ask, don't tell. And he's gone beyond that because I think there have been questions raced about his views on abortion and women. And he's made clear that he supports the Shaheen amendment to the national defense authorization act which is now law which gives support for abortions for women who have been raped in the military, et cetera.
SAVIDGE: You make good points. But, I want to make sure Heather gets a point in here, too.
SAVIDGE: Here's the question I ask of you, Heather. What do you want from Chuck Hagel or maybe what is it he could do to earn your support or for you to support him as defense secretary.
CRONK: Well, like Steve said, I'm also looking forward to the confirmation process. I think that will help us, as the American public, get a much better sense of where Chuck Hagel's values are, where he's willing to put his shoulder behind the wheel. And it's really encouraging to hear that he's made promises around open service for LGBT service members, around women's issues.
The problem is, we just haven't seen any evidence of that. So while Steve and a lot of the others can say, I've talked to Hagel. He's indicated that support. He shook my hand. He's a nice guy. That's great. I actually want to see real concrete promises from him that will not only is he going to enforce the law as it stands, but actually take it further and make sure that the U.S. armed services is a place of inclusion, is a place of equality, is a place of fairness. And the same for civil service that he will also manage as part of it his responsibilities as secretary of defense. So I'm just looking for much more concrete evidence of that support.
SAVIDGE: Heather Cronk, we have to end it there. And thank you very much for joining us. Steven Clemons, thanks for coming to us, as well. We appreciate the conversation from you both.
CLEMONS: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: The suspect held in that Benghazi attack was let go. But, why did the judge do it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: It is 3:30 on the east coast, that's 12:30 on the west coast. For those of you just joining us, welcome to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield.
And here are the top stories we're following right now.
The CDC is releasing new information about the flu epidemic. And there are indications that the spread of the flu, at least in some areas, has slowed down in some areas. Still 24 states and New York City are reporting high levels of flu activity. New York's governor, by the way, has even declared a public health emergency. The CDC says since this outbreak began, there have been 20 flu related deaths among young people 18 years and younger.
Disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong had reportedly will come clean tomorrow according to "USA Today" at least. Armstrong will tell Oprah Winfrey the truth about doping during his years as the world's top cyclist. The paper says the interview will be taped at Armstrong's home in Texas for broadcast on Thursday.
Then there's this. In Seattle, a quick thinking bus driver saved his passengers from harm when a fire broke under the vehicle. Everyone got off safely before a fireball engulfed the bus. Traffic was tied up for hours. The fire may have started due to a frozen brake line. First time I've heard that.
And here's what's trending around the web. The White House says no, it will not be building a death star no matter how many jobs it potentially could create. The idea to build one like the one in "Star Wars," the movie, was posted on the web as a petition at a White House Web site.
And for the record, the White House officially said quote, "the administration does not support blowing up planets," unquote. I think that's popular with many world leaders. The $850 quadrillion price tag was also an issue, always cost overruns.
A New Mexico artist is getting attention for a new series of photographs he created. Those are faces distorted by scotch tape. The artist says the whole thing was meant to be a fun project with some friends. He got the pictures by asking them to try to get the tape off by using only their facial muscles.
And this is what happens when you send a camera up into space and let it fall back down again. The thousand dollar camera was sent into low orbit more than 65,000 feet up. The balloon malfunctioned and the thing came hurtling back to earth. The camera wasn't found until six months later. And here's a testimony who whoever made it, it was still working.
All right. Now back to the flu. If you had questions about how deadly it can be, watch max's story. The 17-year-old celebrated the holidays with his family and all of a sudden became very ill.
Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen spoke to Max's parents about their son's final days.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Schwolert family was getting ready for a joyful Christmas when on December 21st, 17-year-old son Max started feeling sick, tired, fever.
TOM SCHWOLERT, MAX'S FATHER: He never really got like super sick.
COHEN: Two days later he was feeling better. Played in the snow on vacation in Wisconsin. Celebrated Christmas with his family. But Christmas night, Max felt sick again.
MELANIE SCHWOLERT, MAX'S MOTHER: He had excessive like 104.9 fever and we could not break it.
COHEN: The next morning, his parents took Max to the hospital where he was diagnosed with the flu.
TOM SCHWOLERT: Within 30 minutes, I mean the doctor was like something really wrong here. His kidneys are starting to fail.
COHEN: Max was rushed by helicopter to a larger hospital.
MELANIE SCHWOLERT: One of the last coherent things he said he looked at me and there were tears rolling down his face.
TOM SCHWOLERT: He was scared.
MELANIE SCHWOLERT: He said, mom, I'm scared. I said I know, buddy. I am, too. Then he saw me crying. He said mom, it's going to be OK. You're going to be OK. I love you. And that's really the last really coherent things that he said to me.
COHEN: Within 24 hours, Max went from feeling OK to intensive care.
MELANIE SCHWOLERT: His organs were shutting down. And they were completely baffled what was happening. What would attack him so quickly?
COHEN: His parents prayed for a miracle.
MELANIE SCHWOLERT: I remember putting my hands on his heart and I would feel his heart beat. And I -- I just knew how big it was, you know.
TOM SCHWOLERT: Four days later, Max died, a young man whose nickname was Panda, 6'4", big and gentle. Played golf, goofed on his sisters, taught Sunday school.
After Max died, the Schwolert drove home to Louisville, Texas. Waiting in their mailbox, an acceptance letter to Max's first college choice. Tom and Melanie want Max to be remembered for how he loved God, life and the people around him. They've sold more than 1,000 love to the Max t-shirts. The money will go to a charity in Max's memory and the memory of his huge loving heart. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Martin, as we can see, young people can get very sick very fast with the flu. So, here are some red flags that parents can look out for. First, if your child gets better and then gets sick again, that's a bad sign. It means they might have a secondary bacterial infection that's set in. Also if your child is extremely lethargic, that's a red flag, also if your child is confused. Be vigilant about these signs and get your child medical help as soon as you can -- Martin.
CNN's Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much.
Well, a man held by Tunisian authorities in connected with the deadly September attack in a U.S. consulate in, the one in Libya, has been released by a judge. And many people are now asking why. According to the Tunisian state media, Ali Harzi was freed Monday by an investigating judge overseeing the case.
CNN international anchor Jonathan Mann is here now with more on the story.
And really, what more do we know?
JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, the extraordinary thing was this was a deadly attack on a U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya four months ago and we really know very little. And this was the best suspect anyone had. He was the only man behind bars in connection with the attack.
But apparently there was according to his lawyer, no evidence against him and that's why the lawyer says he was let go. There is video of the attack some of us have it. He's not in the video. And so, despite the fact that various press accounts, these are published accounts seem to link him to the attack or to groups suspected of involvement in the attack, despite the fact that published accounts suggest this is a man authorities should want to talk to and U.S. authorities do want to talk to, the Tunisians said there wasn't enough evidence to hold him and so, they let him go. Keep in mind, this was a Tunisian man arrested in Turkey changing planes on suspicion of being involved in attack in Libya. The whole thing remains incredibly murky and according to the Tunisians not enough to hold him.
SAVIDGE: Well, OK. So, you know, how is this twist going to impact the investigation into it all?
MANN: From the very get-go, this attack was not only deadly, it has proved to be really, I think a mess for everyone looking into it, both because Libya itself is dangerous. Benghazi is dangerous. Investigators can't spend as much time there as they would like. And of course, there's the famous question what did Hillary Clinton know and when did she know it. She was famously ill, unable to testify. So, there are investigations into two different levels. There's, you know, basically that the detectives pounding the beat, they are trying to find out what literally happened on the ground four months ago now and they can't visit the site because it's dangerous. And then there are the political investigations under way. Those have been held up though of course, Congress hasn't forgotten about this.
This may turn into a problem not only for Hillary Clinton but John Brennan set to be confirmed as head of the CIA. And already, Lindsey Graham is saying he's not going to vote for John Brennan to be confirmed unless Benghazi gets cleared up. It is four months ago, four Americans died. We don't know what happened. This may be a mystery for a good while longer.
SAVIDGE: Yes. I think it's going to have long and deep shadows, especially politically in this country.
Jonathan Mann. Thank you very much for that update.
Well, he claims that he stole ashes from concentration camp ovens. Then mixed them with water and painted a grim picture. And he says its art. For the families of those killed in the holocaust, it's an outrage and we will have that story.
Then Casey Anthony, she is back in court. And she says she wants the charges against her dropped. "Headline News" Jane Velez-Mitchell weighs in on this case and hands down her verdict direct from the CNN NEWSROOM.
SAVIDGE: The art world is furious at artist Carl Michael von Hausswolff. He claims that one of his recent paintings was made by mixing water with, and brace yourself here, the ashes of holocaust victims that he took from a concentration camp in Poland. Christopher Marinello is the executive director of the Art Loss Register, which tracks stolen artwork around the world. And we've elected to not show this painting because if it's true, it really does go beyond the pale here.
And Chris, we spoke to you while back. It's nice to see you again. Tell me, what's the story here?
CHRISTOPHER MARINELLO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE ART LOSS REGISTER: Well, this artist claimed that he was creating something as sort of a memorial to holocaust victims. But instead what he did was outrage most of the art world and most of the general public and offending Jewish families all over the world. And the regional authorities in Lublin, Poland are looking into this matter to see if any criminal statutes were violated. We know that statute 262 of the Polish criminal code, penal code, calls for up to eight years in prison for disturbing human remains.
MARINELLO: And this is something that they're looking into right now.
SAVIDGE: How do you prove it? I mean, how would they try and prove that this is in fact what he did in. MARINELLO: Well, let's face it, if this is some sort of hoax or some sort of artistic provocation, the artist should be universally condemned. But if in fact, he did use the ashes from the (INAUDIBLE) concentration camp, I think that this painting should be destroyed, probably burned or buried at the camp itself.
SAVIDGE: Yes, makes sense. Let's move on to the Matisse now because this is certainly a positive. Tell us where this painting has been because you've recovered it. It's been missing now or it was gone for 26 years, right?
MARINELLO: Oddly enough, this painting was stolen. We have the same two countries that we had in the holocaust case. The painting was stolen from a museum in Stockholm, Sweden. A burglar broke in with a sledgehammer and carried the painting away. It was easily carried away under his arm. And ten minutes later, the police arrived. And the painting hasn't been seen for 25 years. An art dealer here in the UK was searching or database for the painting. We matched it and then I had to negotiate with him during the holiday season to recover the work and get it back to the museum.
SAVIDGE: Now, when you negotiate, what do you negotiate? You're not going to pay or reward somebody for theft.
MARINELLO: No payments were made. No arms were broken. However, that doesn't mean that arms weren't heavily twisted. And that's what we did. We discussed the law with him and various jurisdictions that applied. There really was very little he could do with the painting. And he decided to save face and agreed to release the painting to my custody.
SAVIDGE: I'm sorry. I just wanted to ask this. I know because we asked this before. If there's no market, then, why do people keep stealing art?
MARINELLO: Thieves always think that they have a marketplace for it. They think they're going to get some cash out of it. And again, art can be used in the underworld at maybe five or 10 percent of its value to trade for drugs or weapons or heavy used as a get out of jail free card, if they're being pursued by law enforcement.
Christopher Marinello, I think you have got probably one of the most fascinating jobs in the world and it is always a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks very much.
MARINELLO: Next to yours. Thank you, Martin.
SAVIDGE: Good to see you again thanks. Thanks.
Well ahead in our 4:00 hour, country superstar Naomi Judd will tell us why she packs a pistol while the gun debate rages on in D.C. It's an interview you really have to see.
But next, Casey Anthony, she's back in court and she wants all charges dropped against her. Jane Velez-Mitchell breaks down the legalities of this case and the appeal. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Casey Anthony was acquitted of killing her daughter Caylee, but she didn't walk away scot-free. She was convicted of four misdemeanors for lying to police. I asked HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell about that.
SAVIDGE: Hello, Jane. Nice to see you again.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR, JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: You too.
SAVIDGE: So let me just go over this to make sure I've got it straight. The basis of Casey Anthony's appeal is really the question of whether or not she was in police custody or under arrest at the time when the she made the statements that led to her being convicted of lying. And her lawyer is basically saying that because she was briefly happened cuffed, because she is put in the back I've patrol car, that is essentially under arrest. And they failed to read her Miranda rights. It's interesting. Do you buy it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don't really buy it. But I have to say that this is extraordinary. This woman a lot of people believe got away with murder. And she's not satisfied with her acquittal on the murder charges. She got to go for the home run of getting this misdemeanor lying conviction tossed out even though she admits that she lied. She lied over and over again. She lied when she said that a nanny named Zanny took her child. She lied when she said she worked at universal studios. She lied when she said she talked to her daughter, Caylee, shortly before she was reported missing. And she lied when she said she told alleged co-workers that her daughter was missing.
But the question as you said is when she told those lies, was she officially under arrest or not? And she claims because they cuffed her, because her mom said, oh, my daughter stole something so cops cuffed her briefly, put her in the squad car, then took the cuffs off, the defense is saying you cannot un-arrest a person.
So, the judges were wondering, well, was she free to go? Did she feel free to go and the defense is saying no, because even after they took the cuffs off, they remain around her and she felt this coercive influence and they also grilled her in a textbook interrogation.
SAVIDGE: So if the judge sort of decides in her favor, does that essentially mean her conviction could be overturned?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the fascinating part is that it could actually hurt her in a civil case because Zanny the nanny, Zenaida Gonzales, the real woman Zenaida Gonzales who says her life was destroyed when Casey made up this lie about Zanny, the nanny is suing her and wants this trial in civil court to start.
But every time her lawyers depose Casey Anthony she just takes the fifth because she's still fighting this appeal. And so, she has the right to take the fifth saying I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me and affect my criminal case where I'm appealing these convictions.
So, if she wins this appeal, then she can't take the fifth anymore. And then, they're going to be able to drag her onto the witness stand in the civil case and grill her and that's when we might actually finally get some answers out of Casey Anthony.
SAVIDGE: Well, why is she appealing anyway? I mean, she has already served the time that she was sentenced to a probation she got as a result of in this conviction on the lie. Why is she appealing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that's the million dollar question. This is I think just one more example of this woman's intense narcissism and like many people who do bad things, this self- perception that she's the victim in all of this. She has in her own mind become some sort of martyr. She's living in hiding and she wants some kind of ultimate vindication which she is never going to get.
It isn't going to happen. She should just move on with her life. But she's got attorneys willing to take her through this process. And she already did an astounding feat by getting acquittal so she might pull off this trick too.
SAVIDGE: Jane, nobody tells it like you do. Thank you very much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Martin.
SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, everybody's asking about the flu. Coming up, we will have the very latest information on the flu that is sweeping the nation and how you can avoid catching it.
And it's award season in Hollywood. Grae Drake will join us. She has the scoop on which films are rotten or ripe. Stay right here.
SAVIDGE: Movie buzz is higher than ever this weekend. Oscar nominees were just announced in the 70th annual Golden Globes appear tomorrow. So for both shows, the favorites are obvious, but are they really the best?
Well, that's why we ask Grae Drake. She is the senior editor of rottentomatoes.com and here to give us her predictions for both awards ceremony.
Nice to see you again, Grae. We always look forward to this. You are so smart on things I am not, which is, movies. I love movies, but you know them. So, let's talk about them.
The Golden Globes, what are your predictions for who will get, say, best motion picture, best actor and best actress in a drama category, versus who should win, OK? That's the distinction here.
GRAE DRAKE, SENIOR EDITOR, ROTTEN TOMATOES: Got it. Well, who should win and who is going to win are always two very different things for me, personally, as well. And I think for picture, this is going to go to "Argo". Now, the Hollywood foreign press is famous for allowing alcohol at their celebration, and it seems like the more champagne you drink, the more you want to reward Ben Affleck for his achievements. He got snubbed by the academy, but I think that the Hollywood foreign press is smart, and they're going to honor his fantastic film.
SAVIDGE: All right. That's good. I love the analysis there. Yes, go ahead, sorry.
DRAKE: Well, if I had -- but, you know, I loved "Argo," but I will tell you, "Zero Dark Thirty" was also a fantastic film which I king of, I mean, I enjoyed it and I think it also deserves a win so you never know. Is it going to go -- it's all about terrorism, this year at the award ceremony. So, you know, it's a lateral move, I say.
SAVIDGE: OK. So those are the movies. Let's talk about the characters, the actors themselves. You've got favorites?
DRAKE: Yes. I think that it's going to be really hard, this award season, for anybody to beat Daniel Day-Lewis in Lincoln. He truly transformed for that role and I had the opportunity of meeting him for just a split second at the critics' choice awards. I think I'm good luck. So he took home the critics' choice award that night. I think he's going home with the Globe as well. But if I had my druthers, I would give the award -- I would cheat on Daniel Day-Lewis, even though he was spectacular. I would give it to Joaquin Phoenix from "the Master."
SAVIDGE: OK. All right. I don't think I'll delve any further on that subject. But, let's move on to the Oscars. And same question, really, you know. And when we start talking about the Oscars, who do you think will win, and should win?
DRAKE: The Oscars is a lot about momentum, and one of the films that has the most momentum this year nominated for best picture, and I think going to be the winner is "silver lings playbook." I love this movie to pieces because it was about bipolar ballroom dancers. It was so fun.
But, occasionally I like to see the underachiever win, and I think that the real underdog in this category is "Django Unchained." I love the fact this exploitation movie was nominated in the best picture category, because this category is definitely lacking in squibs and blood effects. And "Django Unchained" has plenty of those. Performances were great. Quentin Tarantino was at his best for this movie. I would love for that to win an Oscar.
SAVIDGE: When it comes to these two very different awards, I'm wondering, and, again, very uneducated in the background of Hollywood, which do you think is the most?
DRAKE: That's why I'm here.
SAVIDGE: Exactly. Which do you think is the most democratic?
DRAKE: Oh, golly, none of them. I think that -- I don't know that it's so much about democracy. I mean, aside from just them tallying votes. But, you know, it's Hollywood and there's publicists and everybody is making a big run for a big prize that means a lot for their company, their revenue. And so, it's not entirely based on what should win, because it's the best film. I hate to say it. But it really is a race to see, you know, who is the most popular. Sometimes these award seasons seems like high school with better dresses.
SAVIDGE: You know, there's a lot of lobbying, I know that goes on. I've been in L.A. and seen the billboards that go up and mailings that go out and all of these. Does this have an impact when it comes to the Oscars and who wins?
DRAKE: Unequivocally, yes. It absolutely has an effect because the fresher you can stay in a nominator's mind, the better off you are. You know, and when it's voting time, of course, that's the important part. And you want your movie to be at the top, top, top of their list. And it's not so much about the free stuff, but really just seeing things with that movie's name on them reminds you how much you love the film.
Now, the good news is that I don't disagree with any of the nominations that they've come up with. I am sad over some people that got missed. But ultimately, you want to send things to people, so that way they go oh, yes, "Argo," I remember that movie. That's that movie with the thing and the guy and the beard, you know?
SAVIDGE: Exactly, I think "Lincoln" had one of those too, though. Let's finish with a bang. Best actor, best actress with the Oscars, who is it going to be?
DRAKE: Well, like I said, Daniel Day-Lewis is definitely the favorite. However, I think the academy is going to surprise everybody and I think they are going to give it to Hugh Jackman in the actor category for "Les Miserables," because that man covered in dirt really, singing his heart out, really reached me and I think it's going to get the voters too. I think it's really going to be a spectacular choice for them.
And you know what, in the actress category, my prediction is probably going to be the lady, Jessica Chastain for "Zero Dark Thirty" because her performance as Maya was spectacular, truly great. She deserves to win a little statue and she always looks and sounds amazing, smart woman, talented lady. She's got my heart.
SAVIDGE: Grae Drake. And you have ours. Thank you very much. We appreciate all your insights when it comes to Hollywood. We'll be checking back to see how your predictions actually fare in the light of day.
Thanks very much. Nice to see you.
And remember, you can get more from gray drake at rottentomatoes.com. And speaking of more, we've got more as we head into the next hour. Country superstar Naomi Judd will be here to talk music, guns and civil rights.
And one of the hot new tech toys you'll want this year. We've got the latest on what's been unveiled at the consumer electronics show. And some of it is simply astounding.