CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

NANCY GRACE

Jodi Arias`s Photos Shown at Murder Trial

Aired January 14, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a work trip in Vegas and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, to pursue him, even converting to Mormonism to get her man.

But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times, violence so brutal, it resembles a mob hit.

Just hours after Arias stabs her 30-year-old lover, Travis Alexander, to death in the shower, Arias has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, the whole time Alexander`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, testimony reveals 27-year-old Jodi Arias has wild sex all day with Travis Alexander, even photographing the whole thing, then within minutes slashes his throat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A digital camera that was found inside of the washing machine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the condition of the camera?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was not able to find any items saved to the internal memory of the camera, 52224, 52236, 52324.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined. And we didn`t know why.

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Oh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 52920.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When it snapped this photograph, was it right side up or was it upside-down?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was upside-down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This area down here, can you tell what that is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stain, it looks like blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot a .25 auto?

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever touched it?

ARIAS: The one that was stolen? I`ve never seen it.

It was, like, a .25-caliber gun.

My grandpa said it looks like a toy gun. I don`t know what a .25 looks like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, then 27-year-old Jodi Arias has wild sex all day with Travis Alexander, photographing the whole thing, and then within just minutes, slashes his throat. That is what is coming out in court under oath.

We are live and taking your calls. We are there in Mesa, Arizona, at the Phoenix courthouse. And let me warn you that some of these photos are graphic. To say that they`re naked photos doesn`t do it justice.

I`ve got them all right here. I`ve looked at them all. They`re not sexy, all right? Let me just put that out there to start with. They`re body parts. They`re just body parts. A couple of times, you see Arias`s face, and she`s absolutely not doing anything under duress, the way this looks. I don`t really know what to make of them except what they prove to me.

Jean Casarez is joining us there at the courthouse. You know, Jean, if the date and timestamp is to be believed on this series of photos, there`s no way that they can have sex all day, even lounging around taking pictures of themselves and their body parts with big smiles on their faces -- you know what? I`m happy for them. I`m not the church lady. I don`t care what they do. All I care about is how this fits into a felony.

Literally, in less than 90 seconds from taking photos of Travis Alexander naked in the shower, suddenly she`s killing him. There`s no time for him to have attacked her. And what, did he beat her up in the shower stall? Because this is all happening with him taking a shower, and boom, suddenly, he`s dead. There`s no time for a deadly attack on his part.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": That`s right. And so the question is, if they`re this happy couple on her part, why does she have a gun and why does she have a knife so close at hand?

And really, that final, final photo of Travis Alexander alive is the critical one because we saw him in the courtroom as he`s sitting in the shower. And as prosecutors said, he was at his most vulnerable, right then, when he was sitting in the shower, right before he was attacked.

GRACE: Well, I`ve got a theory. Bonnie Druker also joining us at the courthouse with Jean Casarez and Beth Karas.

Bonnie, she had gone for this marathon sex event with him. It should be in the Olympics. They go at it all day long, taking pictures of themselves. You know what? Fine.

Then, I guarantee you, she says, So now what do you think, Travis? You still going to go to Cancun with that other woman? And he says, Yes, and it`s bring out the gun. That`s what happened. That`s what I think, Bonnie.

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, I agree. I mean, these pictures are so graphic, Nancy. And we saw the pictures on a massive jumbo screen. There really wasn`t anything left to the imagination. Seriously, you could use some of these pictures in medical school to learn about women`s anatomy. But I agree with you, Nancy. Absolutely.

GRACE: And men`s. And men`s. And OK, you know what? Let me warn everybody these are graphic. If your children are watching, you may not want that. They`re not graphic violence-wise, but they are graphic in that they are essentially body parts. And you know, if this is what Arias thinks is sexy, you know what? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I`ll just say that.

But what is so essential about this, Matt Zarrell, is the timing. Explain that.

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. This all occurred -- the photos that we`re seeing now, these nude photo shots were all taken at about 1:42 to 1:47 PM in the afternoon. Less than four hours later, Travis Alexander is dead in his shower.

And one thing I wanted to point out to you, Nancy. We saw the photo of Travis in the shower. Forty-four seconds later is when we see the photo of the ceiling. That is when prosecutors say he had already been stabbed in the heart.

GRACE: It looks like right there she`s trying to get a shot of his biceps and of his muscles. And then the timeline is what is so critical. Within seconds, he`s shot -- he`s dead. He`s dead. His dead body is being dragged around on the carpet, according to the blood smearing and the blood splatter marks that we can make out.

Not only that, Arias caught on tape lying through her teeth. Liz, cue me up her interview with police. Now, we know, do we not, Jean Casarez, that she stole her grandfather`s gun, his .25, from his home, and that Travis Alexander is shot with a .25?

CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, as you always say, there are no coincidences in criminal law. It is a question of fact for the jury that they heard today for the first time all about that burglary. And lo and behold, there were four guns in the gun cabinet, and only one was taken by the burglar. It was the .25-caliber.

GRACE: Take a listen to Arias caught on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys reported a gun stolen, a .25 auto. Just happens to be the same caliber as the weapon used to kill him.

ARIAS: A .25 auto was used to kill Travis?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, along with the multiple stab wounds.

ARIAS: Did you find the gun? Maybe that would...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, we`re just playing games here. That gun was in your possession. When did you report it stolen?

ARIAS: I didn`t even know that there were guns until my grandparents reported it stolen the day their house was broken into.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?

ARIAS: I don`t remember. It was a few months ago maybe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do with the gun?

ARIAS: I don`t have a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot that .25 auto?

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever touched it?

ARIAS: The one that was stolen? I`ve never seen it. My grandpa said it looks like a toy gun. I don`t know what a .25 looks like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, we also know that she is confessing that she killed him but is saying that it is in self-defense. He`s shot with a .25. So everything she is saying right here is a lie, based on her own confession, because she changed her story three times.

First, she wasn`t there in the home when Travis Alexander was killed. Two, that she was there but that a man and a woman dressed in black ninja- style outfits came in and murdered him, and then she feared for her own life and didn`t call police. And then the third story is that she killed Alexander in self-defense.

Joining me in just a moment is a very special guest, friend and colleague of Travis`s, who socialized with Arias, who went on that Cancun trip. He has agreed to take your calls along with me. Jacob Mefford is joining us.

But I want to go out to the lines right now. Jamie in Georgia, what`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hey, love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to say, OK, Jodi is saying Travis attacked her in the bathroom after she dropped his camera, and in self- defense, she stabbed and killed him. My question is, was the knife conveniently laying on the bathroom sink? Because, if it was and he was attacking her, she wouldn`t have had time -- she`d have had to get away from him. So where was the knife, just on her, in her pocket?

GRACE: Good question. Bonnie Druker, where did she say -- when she said this was self-defense, when it was on that story, where did she say the knife came from?

DRUKER: I don`t think she`s said anything about the knife at this point. It`s just such an unbelievable story, Nancy. You look at these pictures, you look at Travis Alexander. I mean, this guy was taking a shower. His eyes were closed. His mouth was closed. The water was coming down. I mean, it is an unbelievable story, Nancy.

GRACE: Yes, there was no attack, Bonnie. I get it. I agree with you.

Let`s go out now to Jacob Mefford, a very dear friend and colleague of Travis Alexander`s. Jacob, thanks for being with us. I think I`ve got Jacob with me. Jacob, can you hear me, dear?

OK, let me know, Liz, when you get Jacob up so he can hear the question I`m going to throw to him.

Out to Kim in Louisiana. Hi, Kim. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, I have two questions.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, they said she was left-handed, so she was obviously stabbing him with the knife with the left. And I think she had the camera in her right and was beating him with the camera as she was stabbing him. If you take the camera and hit, your thumb would probably click it, click it, click it, and that could be how those pictures came after she killed him or during the murder.

GRACE: OK, let`s go to Paul Penzone, former sergeant with Phoenix PD. He`s joining me there at the courthouse. Paul, you`ve seen your share of homicide scenes. What do you make of that?

PAUL PENZONE, FORMER SERGEANT, PHOENIX PD: It`s definitely a possibility. You know, what we see here is he`s in a vulnerable position. She takes advantage of that when she`s attacking him.

And one of the things that I noticed is when she has -- when she`s been interviewed, her statements relative to things that could be incriminating, she`s very sure, very methodical. When she talks about other unrelated details, she goes extreme into her details to try to really be cooperative with the investigator.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He would send me text messages late at night saying, Hey, I`m getting sleepy, dot, dot, dot.

And that became, like, our code word for, I`m falling asleep. You can come over now and then sneak into my room. I`m, like, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People were involved in some sort of sexual activity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exhibit 166 -- what is this right here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a bottle of personal KY, I believe, or some lubricant.

ARIAS: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think I was little more than a dildo with a heartbeat to you."

ARIAS: The evidence is very compelling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had an immediate suspicion it was Jodi who had done this.

ARIAS: No, I had no part in it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many steps -- let`s talk about what image. How many steps would a person have to take in order to -- you can take the camera out -- to actually delete an image from that camera?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a five-step process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. With me, a longtime friend of Travis Alexander`s, Jacob Mefford. He actually went on that Cancun trip, the one that Alexander didn`t make because he was dead. Jacob, thanks for being with us.

JACOB MEFFORD, FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE OF VICTIM: Thank you.

GRACE: Jacob, you went on the Cancun trip. You had socialized with Arias in the past. Take it from the beginning. When did you first meet her, and what was your impression?

MEFFORD: Well, back in the MySpace days, before Facebook, my wife had -- was friends with Travis and was kind of searching through some comments, and saw a comment by Jodi and immediately pulled up her profile on MySpace and was completely creeped out about what she saw.

There was a lot of, like, witchcraft things and just really creepy stuff that just...

GRACE: Oh, whoa. Wait, wait, wait...

MEFFORD: ... you wouldn`t see on an average...

GRACE: ... wait, wait, whoa. Didn`t know this. You`re going to have to run that by me again. Witchcraft? What? Was this when she was already dating Travis?

MEFFORD: Yes, apparently -- I didn`t know at the time that she had. They had just met in Vegas, maybe a month or a couple weeks before. But she had witchcraft listed on her MySpace. She had a bunch of different, you know, freaky things on her MySpace page. And my wife immediately...

GRACE: What other freaky things? Just curious.

MEFFORD: Well, for one, her profile picture was that one where she`s holding, you know, like, a Jack-o`-lantern or a candle under her face, and she`s, like, illuminated all spooky. You know this was her -- this was how she...

GRACE: I`ve seen that.

MEFFORD: ... portrayed herself to the world.

GRACE: Liz, see if you can dig that up. I got to see that. OK, wait, wait, wait. I`m just hearing this for the first time, Jake. And let me just absorb this. So are you Mormon, also?

MEFFORD: No, ma`am.

GRACE: Because everybody that I`ve interviewed that had been friends with Travis were devout Mormons, and I doubt they`d take very kindly to the MySpace page being filled with witchcraft and a speaky (ph) creepy "Chuckie" pictures. Go ahead.

MEFFORD: Yes, it was -- anyway, my -- yes, even not being Mormon, it creeped me out. But my wife brought -- you know, said, Hey, come over here and take a look at this picture. And as soon as I saw it, it creeped me out. And I thought, Man, that girl is weird. I wonder why he`s friends with her.

GRACE: OK, just hearing about it -- I`m not Mormon, I`m Christian. If I saw where somebody had witchcraft and those kinds of pictures on their MySpace -- but I`m very surprised she would leave that on there. So what happened then?

MEFFORD: Well, it was probably less than a week later -- I live in southern California, which was where Jodi was living at the time. And Travis Alexander was actually coming in to be a guest speaker at one of our business events.

And Travis came walking through the door -- and he and I had been close friends for a lot of years, so we were, you know, giving each other a hug and high-five and, How`re you doing, bro, things like that, you know, just exchanging, you know, welcomes.

And she came walking through the door -- and the one thing about Jodi is that -- from the get-go that freaked me out, when she walked through -- this is the first time I ever saw Jodi in person outside of her MySpace page. And when she walked through the door, my internal alarms went off like nobody`s business. I mean, it was just like -- it was creepy. She just had this very funky energy about her.

And of course, she`s a decent-looking woman, so it caught Travis`s eye. And I immediately said, Travis, you need to stay away from her. I don`t know what it is, but she is weird. There`s something creepy. I looked at her MySpace page and there`s just -- she`s not for you, my man. And I had no clue...

GRACE: What did he say?

MEFFORD: ... that they had actually dated. He immediately kind of got almost a little defensive, you know, like, was maybe a little taken back that I would be so abrupt. And for those that know me know I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve, but I said -- and he said, Well, why do you feel that way?

And I said, Well, this MySpace page and the energy I`m feeling is just -- is just off. Well, literally less than a couple minutes later, they embraced and she gave him a kiss on the cheek. And then I had realized, OK, well, you guys obviously know each other, and I didn`t know that.

So at that point, foot in mouth, I couldn`t hide it. I just walked up to him after they had left each other and I said, Well, at least -- you know, foot in mouth, my man, you know? You`re my friend. At least you know where this friend stands. So I don`t like her. I don`t think she`s for you.

GRACE: You know what, what`s interesting, Jacob? I feel that all through life, God gives us big warnings, you know, big signs, if we can just have ears to hear and eyes to see.

I`m just trying to figure -- I`m curious. This has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, but I`m curious, naturally curious. What was it -- try to remember that moment when she walked through that door, and as you said, alarm bells went off? What did you see? What was it about her? What was it that made you just know instinctively something was very wrong?

MEFFORD: Well, number one, when you look into Jodi`s eyes, it`s like you`re staring into empty spaces. It`s -- it`s -- there`s no substance there. It`s almost like she doesn`t have a soul. And she`s always been that way.

And the other thing that -- she has a very provocative energy. You know, everybody`s displaying at -- like, Travis is this sexual deviant? Well, she had a very provocative energy and she used her looks and she used that energy, especially with men in order to -- you know, to seek favor in them. So for me, what I felt, as soon as she walked through the door, I`m -- I`ll just -- I`m -- can you hear me?

GRACE: Yes, go ahead.

MEFFORD: Oh, OK, sorry. Anyway, when she came through the door, I -- that`s -- this energy that I caught was -- I`m, like, This isn`t a bar and I don`t know what this floozy`s doing here, but this is a -- this is a professional environment, and I can`t believe that she`s bringing this energy in there. And again, just that stare and the fact that she was overly nice. And she knew to -- you know, she was very mysterious. You didn`t really know Jodi. She would never tell you about herself. She...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: With me, Travis Alexander`s dear friend, Jacob Mefford. Jacob, what was it you were just saying?

MEFFORD: I was just basically saying the first time I`d ever met Jodi, when she walked through the door, she just had a very provocative, very inappropriate energy.

And she knew very much to not talk about herself. She was very mysterious. She knew, to win somebody over, that you should get them to talk about themselves, and she was really good at asking questions about you and keeping it on you. In fact, the only thing I really ever knew about Jodi was that she grew up in California and that she liked photography.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting? You mentioned that Travis is being painted as some abuser and a sex deviant. You knew him for years, and I think that when you know somebody for years, you pick up on that, even offhand comments they might say to suggest their leanings.

Did you have any idea, any suggestion that he`s anything like what Arias is portraying him to be?

MEFFORD: Absolutely not. And it enrages me because Travis was one of the softest, most genuine people that I`ve ever met. I mean, he was an amazing human being, and he loved people. And you know, it`s one thing to butcher him, but now you`re trying to take away his legacy. It`s just killing me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) I was taking a road trip that week. I wasn`t going to Arizona, I was going to Utah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: June 2, 2008, 8:04 AM.

ARIAS: I stopped in Redding at the airport to rent a car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By 7:32 PM, Arias is in Lodi, California, stopping at a McDonald`s for a large fry and a bottle of water.

June 3, just after 10:00 AM, Arias makes three deposits in two separate bank accounts at Washington Mutual in Monterey, California. By 8:31 PM, Arias is in Pasadena, California. She stops by CVS pharmacy, followed by an 8:41 visit to a Pasadena Starbucks.

JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I left Starbucks and was talking to him.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: June 4th Arias makes a 3:00 to 4:00 a.m. arrival at Travis Alexander`s home in Mesa, Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you were on the road at that time?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At 5:31 p.m., Arias attacks and kills Travis Alexander.

ARIAS: I felt so helpless because I wasn`t there.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At 10:30 p.m. that night, Arias calls her new love interest Ryan Burns.

RYAN BURNS, FORMER LOVER OF JODI ARIAS, TESTIFIED IN COURT: Then she got tired and so she fell asleep.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: June 5th, Arias arrives at Ryan Burns` home in West Jordan, Utah, between 10:00 and 11:00 a.m. June 6th, Arias leaves Burns` home between midnight and 1:00 a.m.

BURNS: We kissed probably many times.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arias makes two purchases around 4:00 a.m. from a gas station in Salt Lake City, Utah. June 6th, 10:38 a.m., Arias makes two purchases at an In-n-Out Burger at Sparks, Nevada. After visiting a 7-Eleven.

ARIAS: I went through Vegas.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: June 7th, 12:20 p.m. Arias purchases more fuel out of Valero in Redding, California, and returns her rental car to Budget. Arriving nearly three hours late and after traveling more than 2800 miles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are live and taking your calls. In the last hours in court a series of X-rated photos. I`ve got to tell you, they are not sexy, people. They are basically body parts. They`re XXX rated. I`m going to show them to you again in a moment. I`m going to warn you first before we show them. But what all of this, including the time line we just laid out for you, shows that this woman was not insane. She was not beside herself and that this was not self-defense.

Unleash the lawyers. Christopher Amolsch, a defense attorney in Washington, D.C., Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, Miami.

Bradford, how can this possibly be self-defense? I mean, you`ve got her taking naked photos of him, flexing his biceps in the shower after a marathon day of sex and then literally in less than 50 seconds it`s on. She`s killing him.

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes -- no -- I think that`s -- it`s kind of an idiotic defense. I think the better defense was, what you stated earlier in the show, is that she asked him a question. He answered her with, I`m still going to Cancun with some other girl and it`s a crime of passion. Even that would have been a large stretch, but at least it wouldn`t have turned the jury off as much as a self-defense case where the individual is stabbed 27 times and shot once or 29 times and shot once.

So I think the better defense would have been a mitigating defense where you would have said, hey listen, this was a crime of passion. It should be a manslaughter, not a first-degree murder and you should be considering it that and so you take the death penalty off the table. What they`re doing, though, and putting this forth, I don`t think a jury is going to buy it at all.

GRACE: Bradford, that`s borderline brilliant because --

COHEN: Hey, all right. Now we`re talking.

GRACE: I think that it is truthful. I do think that that is what happened. The problem, the kicker is, though, that she brought the gun in with her.

COHEN: Right.

GRACE: And went to the shower with the knife, so she was prepared to be angry.

COHEN: Correct.

GRACE: To be passionate, and the killing committed. So you could date that premeditation back to the time she stole the gun.

COHEN: That`s the problem.

GRACE: But I mean the truth -- yes. That`s the problem with it. But, even so, it`s still, I think, would have been the best defense.

COHEN: Correct.

GRACE: But the bottom line, Christopher Amolsch, is they`re stuck with self-defense because that was her third story so they`re kind of stuck with it. There`s nothing they can do about it.

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they could change it again. I mean she`s shown that she`s willing to change stories as she goes along. You know -- you know, so I don`t know why they couldn`t change it now. They`re going to have to explain the gun. There`s no -- there`s no way the gun gets there by accident unless she stole it for some other reasons. So that makes even a second-degree or a manslaughter charge even less likely.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Kitty in Louisiana. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

KITTY, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Hi, Nancy. I have a masters in psychology and I was wondering, I think she is bipolar or psychopath. My question is, does she have a past violence or mentally ill diagnosis or drug addiction diagnosis or personality disorder?

GRACE: Good question. Jean Casarez, anything like that in her history?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": The only thing, and one -- in the I interrogation, custodial interrogation, she`s asked about that and she said that she had a breakdown once and she said it was because of a guy, and she describes what happened and how she went in her room and she just had that breakdown. So she does admit it.

GRACE: Going in your room and having a good cry is not, I don`t think, Patricia Saunders, going to equal a serious break with reality, a psychotic break.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely not. In fact, it`s perfectly normal. In no way is this woman mentally ill. She may have a personality disorder. She may have some psychopathic features. But what`s most striking to me is what the gentleman said about her dead eyes. Because that emptiness usually goes along with being a predator.

GRACE: You know what`s weird, Dr. Patricia? As I was listening to Jacob Mefford and folks turn exactly what you said.

Hey, Liz, put Jacob up in the middle of us if you can. He said something about looking into her eyes, you see absolutely nothing, no soul, this is very bizarrely coincidental but one of the very first friends of his that I spoke with said the same thing. It`s like you`re looking into the black hole. It`s just -- there`s -- it`s vacant.

What does that mean, Patricia?

SAUNDERS: Well, the -- aside from the eyes of a predator, it usually implies that this is a person who has little or no capacity to connect with other people, to feel empathy or even make a genuine attachment to other people. They use other people. The eyes are the windows of the soul. And this is a soulless woman.

GRACE: I want to go back to Matt Zarrell. I want to go through what exactly happened in court today. How is it that the prosecutor threw the digital camera on the floor in front of the jury?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes, Nancy. In fact, on redirect examination of the -- of the Mesa PD tech who examined the camera, Martinez, the prosecutor, actually dropped the camera on the floor to indicate that it -- and ask if this took a full 45 seconds implying that there were 44 seconds between the time that Travis Alexander was alive and the next photo of the ceiling where they believe he was already gravely injured, and bleeding and fighting for his life.

GRACE: So, Matt, what you`re saying is, they were arguing right there by throwing the camera down the same thing that we were saying earlier going through the time stamps on these photos is there`s no time for an attack on his part.

ZARRELL: Exactly, Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight back out to Phoenix. Standing by with Jean Casarez, Bonnie Druker and Matt Zarrell, now Beth Karas coming out of the courthouse.

Beth, what happened today?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Nancy, jurors have just listened to Jodi Arias` statement to Detective Flores the day she was arrested. A big chunk of it where he confronts her with all kinds of evidence and he says, Jodi, it`s over. We have you there. We have your hair with his blood on it. We have your palm print. A bloody palm print mixed with his blood. It`s over. All I want to know is why you did this.

And she continued to maintain, in this videotaped statement, she did not do it. And at one point, Nancy, she said, if I hurt Travis, I would beg for the death penalty. Well, that, of course, is exactly what the state is seeking.

GRACE: You know, that`s ironic that she said that, Beth. "I would beg for the death penalty." Those words are certainly going to come back to haunt her.

Beth, is the jury having any reactions? Are you going to give me what you`ve given me for many, many years now -- I feel it coming.

(LAUGHTER)

They`re very studious and they`re very alert and they were taking notes.

KARAS: Yes. Yes, I can give you that, Nancy. But also, I can tell you that a couple jurors in the back row were actually, like, leaning forward in their seats because there`s a couple of monitors around the courtroom and this audio is playing so they`re watching the screen and it`s just a lockdown shot at the police station and camera is up high and is looking down at Jodi at the table. You can`t even really see the detective and the audio is really good but some jurors were leaning forward.

But beyond that really I don`t see anything. Jodi was -- had her head turned, sometimes she was crying, because those photos from the camera, the deleted photos that were restored were also shown in open court and she was crying during that. Her mother -- it`s her mother or her mother`s twin --

GRACE: Whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

KARAS: Sitting in court today also cried.

GRACE: She cried at a picture of her own vagina? That made her cry?

KARAS: Well, it was the pictures of -- those are pictures of Travis. Those last 19 or so photos of him alive. Yes, she -- she turns her head away.

GRACE: You know, that`s an interesting point, Jean Casarez, that a lot of photos were deleted, which could show a guilty conscience. And I still don`t understand how she managed to get the digicam in the washer and leave it in there. Maybe she actually thought that would ruin it. But which ones were deleted?

CASAREZ: They didn`t know. They could not differentiate which ones were deleted and which ones were not. At least the detective on the stand couldn`t remember, but it was a five-step process to delete a photo. And he went through that. So it was quite entailed if you wanted to delete them.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting about that, Beth Karas, is now, of course, like, say you have a BlackBerry or a digital camera, if you continue to push buttons, you know, it will have an effect. But I find it very hard to believe that a series of photos each time you go through a five-step process on each photo then the next photo then the next photo, and delete these which turn out to be bombshell evidence in the courtroom. Photos.

KARAS: Right. And some of the photos, though, the testimony at the end was, if they were deleted sort of in a group it wouldn`t be quite five steps per photo. It might be eight instead of 10. But that`s if they were being deleted in a group. So who knows how it was done. But they were able to determine that some of the pictures had been deleted and they were the ones of Travis in the shower alive and then the inadvertent or accidental photos, three of them, when the state says the attack was occurring --

GRACE: Hey, you know what else, Beth?

KARAS: And also the sexy photos earlier.

GRACE: I like this guy on the stand.

KARAS: Yes.

GRACE: He`s very, very believable. He`s calm. He`s methodical. He`s likeable. That`s very important for a jury to like the witness on the stand. Does that make a difference evidentiary? No, it doesn`t, but a jury is more receptive to a witness if they can understand. They like his demeanor.

Hold on, Beth, one sec. Ben Levitan is joining me, telecommunications expert on Raleigh.

Ben, what does it take? What`s this five-step process? Can you give it to me in a nutshell how to delete these photos and why putting them through the rinse cycle would not ruin them?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, it`s two good points, Nancy. We`ve seen this -- I`ve seen this all the time in trials where someone has intentionally deleted something and claimed it was accidental. When you go through these steps like -- if you were to delete something from your BlackBerry, it would force you to type out the word BlackBerry three times before you could do something. So when I -- when I see something has been deleted and someone claims it`s accidental, I don`t believe it.

On your second point, throwing an electronic device into the washing machine to try to destroy it is pretty naive. Most of our electronics are made of plastic and glass and pretty much if it doesn`t have power on it, you`re not going to be able to destroy anything. If you drop your -- you know, if someone spills coffee on your laptop and you take out the battery immediately, your computer is going to be all right.

GRACE: Yes. I get it. I get it.

Out to the lines, Donna, Indiana. Hi, Donna. What`s your question?

DONNA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. I am just wondering, you know, people are comparing this trial to the Casey Anthony trial, and I am just hoping that her attorney, her female attorney, is not coddling her or, you know, comforting her like we saw in the Casey Anthony trial because that was one of my hugest pet peeves knowing that they`re guilty and -- so that`s my question, thank you.

GRACE: Yes, got you. Let`s go back to the reporters that have been in court all day.

Is that happening, Beth Karas? Is the defense attorney kind of coddling and kind of snuggling up against and touching and all that on Jodi Arias?

KARAS: No. No. I don`t see any of that in the courtroom. No. None of the attorneys are putting their arm around her, around her chair. I mean, Jennifer Wilmont does sit next to Jodi Arias and they talk and Jodi appears to be maybe writing something down and showing her and they`ll speak, but I don`t see anything like coddling. But I don`t know what happens behind closed doors outside of the courtroom.

GRACE: To Jacob Mefford, joining us. This is a very dear friend of Travis Alexander.

Jacob, you went on that Cancun trip?

JACOB MEFFORD, FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE OF VICTIM, SOCIALIZED WITH JODI ARIAS: Yes, I did.

GRACE: Now I understand that Travis Alexander had really been looking forward to going and he was taking a new friend that happened to be a woman with him, correct?

MEFFORD: Yes.

GRACE: Tell me his thoughts on the Cancun trip? I believe this was a woman who he was interested in, but it had not turned romantic yet?

MEFFORD: Yes. I hadn`t met her yet, so we -- we were actually excited that he was bringing somebody else besides Jodi because that meant the end of the Jodi days, is what we were hoping.

GRACE: Now why do you say that? What did the other friends say? And what -- was Travis concerned about what was going to happen when Jodi found out about the trip and the woman?

MEFFORD: I`m not sure. But we do know, you know, towards the end looking back on it, we -- you know, I think that he started to realize he was definitely in over his head and he really didn`t know how to get completely away from Jodi.

GRACE: Why do you say that aside from obviously her following him on dates with other women, slashing his tires twice, breaking into his e-mail account and his bank account? Those are pretty good signals that something is wrong.

MEFFORD: Well, she had this ability to disconnect, so I`m sure that, you know, because he sound logic and being in touch with reality and her not, you know, when he got around her, I mean, we`d have instances where we`d be like, Jodi, you`re not welcome here. And she would stay -- like, stare at you with a blank face like it didn`t even happen.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You actually told her the words, you are not welcome here?

MEFFORD: Well, one instance with my wife and a friend she came over to our house. You`re probably going to hear about this at one point but she just showed up at a friend of ours house out of nowhere one day. And was like, I don`t know why you guys don`t like us. And, you know, they proceeded to talk for 20 minutes, and our friend was brutally honest with her why we didn`t think she was right for Travis or why we didn`t like her.

And then instead of -- like, she basically told her, you`re not welcome in my home, I don`t want to see you again, and instead of walking out the door like a normal person that would understand, OK, I`m not welcome here anymore, she walked in with a blank stare and sat at the kitchen table for about another 15 minutes silently while my wife was actually making some lunch for my friend`s kids, and our friend was so distraught she went into the other room and, you know, was very angry and she came back about 10 minutes later. And anyway, she finally left, but it was just awkward.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Jacob Mefford, what were your friend and your wife, what were they telling her as to why they didn`t like her? What was wrong between her and Travis?

MEFFORD: Well, number one, she was -- she had -- remember I told you she had this very provocative energy. You know, she was a predator. That one person said she was a predator. Well, we pointed that out, that she would use this sexual energy to seek favor in mostly men because, of course, she being a good-looking woman, they would fall prey to it if she could find one.

And we knew that it was inappropriate. Number one, you know, besides her being weird and the inappropriateness and just her awkwardness and all that, it was the fact that we knew that she was being over the top flirtatious with other men in our own company. We`re like, well, listen, if you think you`re right for Travis --

GRACE: OK. Now I get why all the other women did not want her coming over. You just made it crystal clear.

Joe in Florida, what`s your question?

JOE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hey there, Nancy. I have a comment and a question. Who can really understand just how savage this killer is, and it becomes even more despicable watching her usually appear so serene and oblivious to the bloody murderous rage?

In my opinion, she is the perfect example of a Jekyll and Hyde person who is saying, I hate you, don`t leave me. It`s a perfect fit. What does your shrink think?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Air Force Staff Sergeant David Smith, 26, Mobile, Alabama. Purple Heart, Air Crew Flight Engineer badge, 14 Air medals. Loves photography, comics. Dreamed of publishing his own comic book. Mother Mildred, brothers Randy and Todd, sisters Tracy and Jamie. Fiance Megan.

David Smith, American hero.

To Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist in Denver, you have studied the autopsy report. What does it say to you?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, the important features are that the gunshot wound to the head didn`t bleed. That`s why the doctor concluded that the gunshot wound occurred after this patient was dead, after there`s no blood pressure, after there`s no pulse.

In addition, there is a large number of cuts and stabs indicating there is probably a strong emotional relationship between the assailant and the decedent.

GRACE: Wow. And to you, Dr. Patricia Saunders, could you address Joe in Florida`s question?

SAUNDERS: I don`t think this is a Jekyll and Hyde. I think this is pure Miss Hyde. In order to I -- you know, I hate you, don`t leave me, you have to have an attachment to someone, and I don`t think this woman is capable of forming attachments. That everybody has such a dramatic, hateful, repulsed response to her. I think she`s more along the lines of a real psychopath.

GRACE: Well, I`ll be back in court first thing in the morning. Right now, happy birthday to Florida friend, Mel, the grandmother of one of our superstars Rachel, and here she is holding our little Rachel at birth. We all adore you. Happy birthday.

"DR. DREW" up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END