CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Prosecution Rests in Jodi Arias Trial

Aired January 17, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two weeks off for the jury. Then they're back at it with the defense. Jane Velez-Mitchell is all over it. She starts right now.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Just when you think you've gotten a handle on the Jodi Arias murder case, it takes an unexpected twist. Today, that happened again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Done already? An abrupt ending to the prosecution's case in the Jodi Arias death penalty trial and why will jurors now have to wait a dozen days before they hear Jodi's defense?

Are backroom negotiations happening right now with Jodi's lawyers trying to get that death penalty off the table? Did today's final witness boomerang on prosecutors? Was she better for this admitted killer than the other side? We're debating it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state may call its next witness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state rests.

But she never confided in you that she killed him, did she?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The camera actually took a couple photos by accident during the time he was being killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you knew her. What do you think about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her entire past is a complete secret to everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Arias was certainly an invited and willing guest in Mr. Alexander's home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right after she found out that he had been killed, she was very upset and distraught. She was crying and sobbing.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER SUSPECT: I ran into the closet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said that Travis was dead. That he had been killed and that she couldn't imagine why someone would do that to Travis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a dramatic and surprising day in court as the prosecution suddenly rests in the Jodi Arias death penalty trial. Yes. No more witnesses. A lot of people didn't see that coming.

Now the jury heads home for 12 -- count them -- 12 long days. And everybody is wondering why the delay and when they come back, will Jodi herself take the witness stand?

Good evening. I'm Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

The beautiful 32 year old admits she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander's throat from ear to ear and shot him in the face. Jodi claims it was all in self-defense. But how can the jury believe that Jodi killed in self-defense after seeing these extremely graphic autopsy photos of Travis repeatedly stabbed everywhere on his hands, in his back, a dozen times?

Those violent images are in in direct contrast of the flattering way the last prosecution witness described Jodi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person that I had known was a very quiet, soft-spoken, gentle person and so that person that I knew I couldn't imagine could have done something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a minute. Why on earth is a prosecution witness singing Jodi's Arias' praises? She's on trial here. The prosecutor was furious and scrambled to erase that nice image of Jodi from the jurors' mind and confronted this witness with Jodi's sex pictures.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't mean to be indelicate, but you said you knew her. You see that photograph?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who that is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks like Jodi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know anything about that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about exhibit number 164? Who does that look like to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks like Jodi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Know anything about that aspect of her life?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But does taking sexy pictures or having sexy pictures taken of you really equate to a propensity to violence? Was this a huge blunder for the prosecution as the jury goes home for almost two weeks and that's the last thing they hear, a compliment to the defendant.

What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-977-586-7297.

Did the prosecution prove its case? Our poll shows 82 percent say yes. However, we're debating it tonight with four top attorneys. Two who side with the prosecution. Two with the defense.

We begin with criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, I believe, Holly Hughes. Holly, did the prosecution prove its case that Jodi murdered Travis with premeditation?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Jane, the judge instructs the jury that you can't make that decision until you see both sides of the evidence. So at this point until we hear from the defense you can't make that call. I can't make that call. The jurors have been instructed not to.

We know that they are claiming self-defense. I fully expect they're going to put a domestic violence expert on. And after they -- the defense has a chance to put it up, then we can say, "OK, we ruled one way or the other."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly -- Holly...

HUGHES: But the way they came out swinging in opening, I think we got a good shot.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly, I didn't ask whether the jurors felt that the prosecution had proved its case. I wanted to know do you think that the prosecution should have rested today?

It was a stunner. People weren't expecting it. We're going to tell you in a second that there were some people who thought they were going to testify who ended up not testifying. Do you think it was smart for the prosecution to rest its case with what it had accomplished thus far?

HUGHES: No, because they got plenty out on cross-examination about how he treated her, how he treated her like a possession, how he talked down to her, how he called her dirty, nasty names.

And the fact that their last witness is saying this defendant is a gentle, soft-spoken person, then the prosecution shows dirty pictures of her. Well, so what? Your friends should not know about your sex life. They should not know about your dirty pictures.

They would have been better to call somebody else who was going to say, "Yes, you know what? She flat-out confessed. I knew she was vicious. I knew she was violent."

This is not how they wanted to end it. And I think the defense has a chance of at the very least hanging it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, your response?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: My response is that's ludicrous. There's overwhelming evidence of premeditation in this case.

I mean, the bottom line is just because one witness takes the stand and says she's a gentle person has nothing to do with the fact that there are stab wounds, 29 stab wounds on this individual.

Anybody can take the stand and say, "Well, in my presence they were gentle and nice, but I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors."

And if somebody calls you nasty names, all of us have been called nasty names at one time in our life. Doesn't give you the right to go ahead and murder somebody in cold blood. So I don't think the prosecution has a problem at all.

I don't think this witness that ended the prosecution's case made one difference. And the fact that they were showing pictures was to show the time line: that she was there having sex with him all day and within 20 seconds the photos show what happened. That there was no possible way that he was doing anything to her that would lead her to kill him in self- defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecution tried to prove that Jodi murdered Travis in a premeditated fashion. And to do that they showed that Jodi disguised her identity when she went from blonde to brunette. She was a blonde when she rented that white Ford Focus.

And by the way, she drove 90 miles from her home in Redding, California, to rent a car when she could rent one in the same town where she lives. And then they show that she didn't want a red car that was offered her. She wanted a less visible car with a light color. Something that wasn't too loud or ostentatious.

And most important, they showed, or tried to prove that she orchestrated a phony gun burglary at her grandparents' house in order to get a gun and the gun that was suspiciously stolen from grandpa's House, same caliber as the gun used to kill Travis Alexander that was never found.

Brian Silver, criminal defense attorney, that's a lot of premeditation evidence and testimony.

BRIAN SILVER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I got to say I disagree with all of you. Everyone here is missing the point. This case is not about guilt. It's not about innocence. It's about mental health.

When I reviewed this case, the thing that bothers me most, where I see the biggest lack of evidence, is not about what happened that today. It's not about her palm print. It's about motive.

Because even if you tell me that she's a jealous woman and she's upset with him, her emotional response to that jealousy is overbroad. She's having a reaction that's not normal. And that's a red flag because if she was insane, if she did not have an appreciation for her actions at the time of this crime, then she cannot be held guilty for it. And that will affect not only the verdict in this case but also the punishment because that would be a defense against the death penalty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, what do you say to that?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don't even know where to begin. I mean, this case -- I agree with Stacey -- is so strong that it's laughable to hear someone suggest that this is about mental health.

Among other things, she lied; gave three different stories about how and why this happened; and none of them were "I had really bad mental health issues." Look, I think the witness that we heard from...

SILVER: You've got to read between the lines. You know, as an attorney...

MURPHY: Let me take a point. Everyone thinks the -- excuse me. Everybody thinks the prosecution's last witness was a bad idea. I think it was brilliant. Because the only thing this chick has going for her...

SILVER: Why? Because being naked in a photograph means she's guilty? That was outrageous. It was inappropriate.

MURPHY: Excuse me. Could you just be quiet for a minute? The only thing that the defense has going for it is that this woman looks like a sweet, young girl. And she looks like the kind of person who isn't a rageful killer. That's a theatrical advantage for the defense.

What the prosecution did today was genius. They have 12 days of break now. The jurors do. And what they needed to see was to be reminded of the true image of this woman. That's why putting that witness up to say she's so sweet and gentle and the prosecution going, "Oh, yes, remember this picture? Have you seen this picture?"

The jury goes home for 12 days remembering this woman as a sexual weirdo, which puts them in the frame of mind of thinking she could be the type who kills.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian, your turn now.

SILVER: That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And frankly, it's as offensive as telling me in a rape case that the victim engaged in some kind of sexual innuendoes. This is not about sex. This is not about dirty pictures. And

I'll tell you something. With the advent of smartphones, everyone in this country has a camera. And guess what? You might have jurors on that panel that have naked pictures of themselves. And when you take this case...

MURPHY: And they didn't kill anyone.

SILVER: ... that has tremendous evidence, and you taint it by telling people that she's a slut with these photos, it's awful and disgusting and they ended on a low note. And as a former prosecutor, I never would have done that.

MURPHY: Just a couple seconds. But I think if he had come back with crime photo, she said he's a nice person. He's, like, yes, but look at this pointing to a photo of her naked. Naked doesn't equate -- it's apples and oranges to violence. Maybe he should have shown the bloody sink instead.

You make a good point. The purpose was to remind the jurors that she's not that sweet person they've been seeing in courtroom acting with her glasses all sweet and vulnerable. What they are seeing is a woman who is sexually aggressive, assertive, and liberated even, and that's more consistent with a personality of a woman who is strong and not weak or vulnerable or a victim. It may not sell the case but it will remind the jury that she has the very different real world persona, not this fake stuff they're seeing in the courtroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. On the other side, will this case break down along gender lines? Stay right there. We're debating it and taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I would never stab him. If -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible. Quick or something, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person that I had known was a very quiet, soft-spoken, gentle person. And so that person that I knew I couldn't imagine could have done something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a friend of both Jodi and Travis' on the stand who has a different impression of Jodi than the men. Could this whole case break down over gender lines with women feeling more sympathy for Jodi and understanding her in a different way than men do?

The jury is made up of 11 men and 7 women. Six of them will eventually become alternates after all of the testimony is heard. If this jury ends up being predominantly female -- although that's not likely, but it could happen -- Susan Consultation, jury consultant, body language expert, could it change the outcome of this case?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: Not just the gender in itself, Jane. You know, we've got more men in the pool than females. We don't know, who are alternates at this point at time?

You know, it's not just their gender. It's age demographics. It's the type of work that they do. If they hire, fire, if they tens are more authoritarian. All of those things as elements have to pull together, not just gender alone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here's the thing. This is what struck me as a real problem for the prosecution. Jurors were dismissed today. First they say the prosecution has rested. We're all like, "What?" Then they say we're going to start with testimony in 12 days. Twelve days. That's almost two weeks. Remember, these jurors are not sequestered. But they were told don't discuss the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You do not need to return until January 29. You must be very diligent to avoid any contact with any outside information about this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So after 12 long days, will jurors forget key elements of the prosecution's argument? We're talking about the camera. The crime scene forensics, lies. Remember, they brought out an actual bloody carpet with Travis' blood into the courtroom. Will that fade by the time they go to deliberate and does this delay help the defense because they're the ones who will get to speak closer in time to the verdict. I'll throw that one to Holly Hughes.

HUGHES: Jane, it's a double edged sword. You don't want them going home and ruminating no two weeks on the prosecution side. I think it cuts both ways. If they go home and what's in their head is what's been presented by the state, as the defense I would not like that. I would want to proceed quickly and go ahead and get our side of the story out there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Right after the first bombshell today that the prosecution had rested and would call no more witnesses in this phase of the case, then the judge drops another shocker. The court is in recess until January 29th. As we just said almost two weeks from now. Why this delay?

KARAS: As, do defense attorneys need time to come up with somebody who is willing to testify for Jodi Arias? Delays involving scheduling defense witnesses to testify? Or Beth Karas, "In Session" correspondent, I know you don't have a crystal ball but is one of the possibilities they are discussing a plea deal that her -- we'll plead guilty but you take the death penalty off the table.

KARAS: I think that the reason you just suggested are more likely. There's either a scheduling problem with the witnesses or the defense needs more time. It was only going to be a two-day week next week, Wednesday and Thursday only. Monday, Tuesday, Friday were dark next week. So it's really just in terms of the jury's -- and then Monday is a hearing.

So in terms of the jury being away, it's only three days for the jury away. Sounds like a lot, 12 days in all. But it's not really.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let's go to the phone lines. Janice, New Jersey, your question or thought, Janice?

CALLER: Well, yes, Jane. I would like to know why all of the prosecutors and your lawyers and psychologists have not come up with my theory because she knew he was taking a girl on vacation, she went there making darn sure she was going to be the last person he ever had sex with and documenting it with photos.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I'm left speechless by an incredible theory. We're going to debate it on the other side with our team of top attorneys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had told us that he wasn't dating her and he thought she was following him around and that's when she had been caught snooping around and peeking into his windows at his house. She had told my older brother, Gary, on the phone that he thought it was her that was for sure slashing his tires, and he really had a strong feeling that it was Jodi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seemed kind of childish because in hindsight it wasn't. But it seemed kind of childish, because she would say things like, "I don't know what I'll do if I can't have him." Or, you know, "He would be such a great father to my children." And I would tell her flat out, "Well, you became a Mormon." You're a pretty girl. You know, drop into any ward, which is the Mormon Church, by the way, if you don't know. You drop into any ward, and you'll meet a great guy. And, you know, so just let it go. Don't be attached to a result. What are you supposed to do?

And so when we got off the plane that night, I don't know why I knew, but I knew.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: That's a guy who dated Jodi and said he knew right away that she had killed Travis.

Now, let's get back to the caller's theory. Travis was set to go with another woman to Cancun on a vacation that he had won, and he told that other girl, who wasn't quite interested in him, "There's no one else I want to take but you."

So Dr. Jeff Gardere, forensic psychologist, our caller, I think it's brilliant. She says she's furious that he's taking another woman. I think we can all relate to that. And then she goes one step farther. She says, "I'm going to make sure he never has sex with anyone else ever again. I'm going to have sex with him one last time."

And we know that that happened from the photos that we saw of Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander naked after having sex. And then that's it. He's never going to have sex with another woman. What do you think?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think that's certainly quite a possibility. This sounds like a woman who had a short fuse. She's accused of slashing his tires.

And this was perhaps one of those situations where there was a lot of sex. Along with that sex, we know there's a lot of emotion. A lot of possessiveness and that's a recipe for disaster of you're going to do this with me one last time and then you're done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Selin Darkalstanian, our senior producer, out there in Phoenix, Arizona. You have new information, because I think a lot of us were stunned that all of a sudden the prosecution wrapped up. Like, what? Already? What do you know?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Yes, Jane. I was on the phone with some of the witnesses that were actually supposed to take the stand for the prosecution next week. And some of them actually have plane tickets and were ready to come out here and take the stand next week. And they got a call pretty abruptly to tell them, you know, don't come out, the prosecution has rested.

So it makes you think was this a sudden move to rest today, because as far as it seems by talking to the other witnesses, they were supposed to take the stand and they were supposed to go through to next week. What was the prosecution thinking by resting today?

Stacey Honowitz, as a prosecutor, what could you tell us about what might be behind the scenes? I know from covering other cases that you often have a witness list a mile long and then you only bring in a few to the witness stand. You do that to play head games with the other side.

I remember I was subpoenaed for a day or two in the Michael Jackson sexual molestation case, and I wasn't called ultimately. But why might they have just sliced that witness list?

HONOWITZ: Well, Jane, you know. this happens all of the time. This is not unusual where witnesses are subpoenaed. They're on standby. They have to be ready to go. The often when you are in the trial itself and strategically you figured out that you have proven your case beyond a reasonable doubt or what you think is beyond a reasonable doubt, then there's no reason to drag it out and call these other people.

Strategies change. What starts in the beginning maybe you want to have 30 people come in. I think as the ball gets rolling, as testimony comes out in trial, things change.

And if you feel as though, and prosecution team felt as though they had enough to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no need to call these other people. So it's not really anything strange. It's not unusual. It goes on all the time every day in every courtroom in every state.

BLITZER: And by the way, as we all know, there are very eerie parallels between this case and the Casey Anthony saga, and we're going to examine that tomorrow in-depth. A little bit tonight but more tomorrow.

At the top of the hour Nancy Grace talks to a friend and former colleague of Jodi Arias'. That's at 8 Eastern. On the other side, we're taking your calls and we've got more new information on this case for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER WILLMOT: Jodi was Travis' dirty little secret. It's just one minute, just one minute of time, between the camera falling until you see the picture of Travis with blood. One minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She slit his throat as a reward for being a good man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?

CASEY ANTHONY: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I just wanted to offer any assistance that I can. I was a really good friend of Travis'.

ANTHONY: I still have that feeling of presence. I know that she's alive.

ESTEBAN FLORES, POLICE DETECTIVE: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.

ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For years she pretended she had a job and pretended she had a nanny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi did not always tell the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very confident just by having talked to you in the short period of time that you know where she is.

ANTHONY: I don't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do.

ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.

ANTHONY: If I knew of any sense of where she was, this wouldn't have happened at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are there stunning parallels between these two high profile cases? First of all to update you the latest today on the Jodi Arias case, the prosecution suddenly rested. No more witnesses in this phase which was a bit of a shock to a lot of people who had expected more witnesses. And then we learned it's going to be 12 days before the jurors come back and big question will this woman you're looking at right there take the stand?

Now, in the prosecution's case against Jodi Arias they focused heavily on Jodi's lies -- lies. Remember, in Casey Anthony's trial, the prosecution did the same thing focusing on Casey Anthony's lies, playing tapes of Casey lying to police about everything from her job to Zanny the nanny.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and haven't returned her?

ANTHONY: She's the last person that I've seen with my daughter, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are prosecutors in the Jodi Arias case making the same mistake here by focusing too much on Jodi's lies and not enough on her motive and her acting out of what they believe is a cold blooded murderer.

I'll start with Brian Silber, criminal defense attorney.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I absolutely agree. They are putting too much focus on her contradictory statements. I don't think there's any doubt in this jury's mind about whether or not she actually killed this guy. And to focus on the stories back and forth is a major strategic error because this will open the door for a defense attack to fill in the blanks -- specifically not only that she killed somebody but why? And their claim of self-defense is where they're going to make that attack. And they're going to talk about the things that drove her to do what she did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy, your response?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Oh my goodness. Look, of course they're going to focus on the lies. That's the key evidence in this case for one very simple reason. No one at this point denies that she killed the guy. It's whether she acted in self-defense. That's a brand new concocted defense.

First she said she had nothing to do with it, wasn't there. Then she said two people came in and, you know, she saw it but left. Then, you know, the third story is, ok, I did it but it was self-defense. By the way, there's no physical evidence of self-defense at all. So, good luck with that.

The fact is by using the lies what the prosecution is going to emphasize and they're going to do it over and over and over again in the closing argument is her state of mind. If this were really a woman so battered, so vulnerable, so victimized, so beaten down that she had kill in self- defense with both a gun and a knife and slit his throat from ear to ear. She was just so vulnerable she had no choice but to act in self-defense.

You know what the prosecution is going to say? Why didn't she say that the first three times she made up stories? It's not credible. The lies prove that she's a liar on her current claim of self-defense.

SILBER: You are falling into a tremendous trap with that theory. That theory is going to take this prosecution to a bad result. I'm going to tell you why. Because it's not a question of what she did. It's why she did it. If they're going to go --

MURPHY: Are you a comedian or a lawyer?

SILBER: -- excuse me. You don't have to make personal attacks on me. I'm not saying --

MURPHY: Now I can't do it to you but you could do it to me.

SILBER: Absolutely not. That's unprofessional and you know it.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. All right, kids.

SILBER: Not to mention -- let's get back to our case. Ok. At the end of the day is this is going to go to a jury and they're going to have to decide is she guilty of murder? In Arizona there's a thing called guilty except for insanity. When it goes to the jury, they're going to have to make that call. And ultimately if this goes to the penalty phase, the number one mitigator in Arizona law against imposing the death penalty is the defendant's state of mind while committing that crime.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh boy, I wish I had my gavel. I don't anymore. All right.

Stacey, we're going to give Stacey and Holly a chance and then I want to get Beth Karas in on this. Go ahead Stacey.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Look, I mean you can be a defense attorney all day long. I respect Brian. I know Brian. But let me tell you something.

First of all, we all know you don't have to prove motive in a first- degree murder case. Motive - yes it's very nice for a jury to try to think she's a jealous whackadoo and that's why she did it. You don't need it.

In this case why wouldn't the prosecution focus on her lies? Do you really expect a prosecutor not to stand up in open court and say she told three different stories? I mean that would be malpractice. So in this case what you have is overwhelming evidence of her lying three times, no evidence of self-defense. The guy was defenseless in a shower, taking a shower and she's got a gun and a knife.

So the prosecution while we want to hear from a ton of people and it might be shocking, it's the quality of evidence and it's not quantity. They have the quality -- the overwhelming quality of evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Holly?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ok. So she's a pretty little liar. Guess what; we found out in the Casey Anthony trial a jury is not going to necessarily hold that against her. What the prosecution needed to do was exactly what they did. Put up their gory pictures. Focus on the evidence they have and the defense will come back and say it's all about why it happened. And when she gave those first three statements, even though she didn't use the word self-defense, her language was he didn't have weapons except his fists. They're the only weapons he had.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

HUGHES: So an argument could be made using her own words, using those lies and those statements that the prosecution put in, that, you know what? She was saying self-defense without using the legal terminology.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Beth Karas because Beth, you and I were in Orlando covering the Casey Anthony case -- knee deep in mud because it rained every afternoon.

But my point is that we would have these same conversations where everybody would say she's guilty. She's guilty. She's guilty. She's guilty. And yet the jurors were seeing a different case because they're not hearing all this debate. And it plays a head game with us because we're hearings boyfriends come out of the woodwork and say this, that and the other. They are hearing a very narrow focus.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know this is actually different in that respect from Casey Anthony who always denied killing her daughter. And here she's now admitting it although she never admitted it to the police. Notice of self-defense was filed two years after she was arrested. So we don't what her version of how she killed him is. She told the experts that. Maybe she'll testify to it. I think she has to.

But her lies are critical to this case. She called the detective voluntarily several times. He tape recorded those conversations. She had two interrogations after arrest. She had ample opportunity to answer his questions when he said why would you do this to him? Why would anyone want to hurt him? She said he was so nice -- he was so nice to me even after we broke up.

She had so many opportunities to say he was abusive to me even if she wasn't admitting it. She made up stories along the way and her attorneys probably found self-defense is the only way to go to mitigate at this point -- not to get her off but at least to get her second degree and maybe manslaughter if they're lucky.

But I can't believe that anyone is hoping that she will walk away from this but her lies are absolutely critical to this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, there's Jodi Arias wearing a different pair of glasses today. She has a different outfit, different glasses every single day.

But one thing is consistent Susan Constantine. I think we have video of her crying. She's cried from opening statements pretty much every single day and sometimes quite a bit. And as we show you some of those tears and some of her crying, I want to ask you, Susan Constantine, jury consultant and body language expert, the subliminal impact. I mean most people are compassionate even though she has done something unthinkable. Could those tears really make a difference?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT: It really can. Whether anyone likes to hear this or not, yes, it can because as we saw in the Casey Anthony trial, she cried too. I know what is a real authentic cry when you are really feeling sadness. So when people are seeing tears, they are automatically thinking that she's emotional and she's upset. But women cry for all different reasons: for grief, for anxiety, for fear, depression, guilt -- for all different reasons.

When you look at her overall, her overall appearance, her soft voice, I think that people are having a hard time. That jurors looking at her going, you know, I'm not really quite sure. Let's hear more information. And that's what I'm seeing when those jurors are coming back and they're asking questions about the investigation. They haven't made up their mind yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, I cry for no reason at all. Sometimes I'm crying and I'm like why am I crying? I don't even know.

CONSTANTINE: Yes, exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Selin Darkalstanian, you have been in the courtroom and you also see the video. Is there a difference emotionally to seeing her crying in the courtroom than it is seeing her on videotape?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Not at all. And she's very mousey and small and she's almost hiding behind her attorney. So she doesn't have this very big presence in the courtroom. Sometimes you'll see a juror kind of glance over at her and look at her. But she doesn't have this big personality or she's not drawing attention to herself at all. I actually don't think she's doing that in the courtroom at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting. Sometimes people are more powerful on video than they are in person. More on the other side. We're taking your calls.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are talking about the prosecution resting in this case and there she is resting while she's being interrogated. Not nervous at all -- very fascinating character. This has riveted the nation, this case. And on the other side, why she cried in a different way today in court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Travis is telling me that you did this to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911 emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom.

ARIAS: So I'm as good as done.

FLORES: There's pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.

ARIAS: Pigtails?

If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people lie, it's an effort to throw truth in there to make the lie more believable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We're debating the case with four top attorneys who have different opinions and are definitely not shy about expressing those opinions.

But first to the phone lines. Thank you for your patience -- Kinsey, Arizona -- your question or thought Kinsey?

KINSEY, ARIZONA (via telephone): Yes, ma'am. I thought it was so fascinating to discover that Jodi colored her hair between renting the car and showing up on Travis' doorstep. I was wondering if the prosecution considered Jodi coloring her hair the same color as the girl that Travis was currently courting and taking to Mexico to maybe gain entry into Travis' house that day?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh. That's absolutely fascinating. There you see she's blonde and then a brunette. You may have -- it might take a second to pull this up -- video of the Mormon girl. Maybe the good girl that Travis had invited to go to Cancun on the vacation that he won. She basically said yes, I'll go as your friend. I'm not really that interested in you. I think that sort of added salt to the wounds that she said that Travis told her there's nobody else I want to take. Meaning I'm not interested in taking Jodi Arias, the woman that he had been sleeping with on and off again.

Let me say this. It's now going to be the defense's turn in 12 days to establish Jodi's self-defense. Listen to what one of Jodi's attorneys said during opening statements about the relationship between Jodi and Travis and she brings in this issue of Travis' alleged temper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She knew that the one thing that calms his temper the quickest is sex. As she's telling him it's ok. I'll fix it. Don't worry. Travis grabbed her and spun her around. Afraid that he was going to hurt her, Jodi was actually relieved when all he did was bend her over the desk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, it sounds like the defense case is going to try to turn this guy into a monster. He's not here to defend himself.

HUGHES: Well, it's not so much turn him into a monster as it is explain the self-defense theory that she was afraid of him. They have to present some type of evidence. You know, we've all seen lawyers get up there in opening and promise a bunch of stuff to the jury and not be able to come to the table.

That's what they started doing through cross examination when we started hearing some of the names he called her. When we started seeing the photograph of the t-shirt he made her wear claiming she was his property. They have to present this.

Stacey Honowitz was talking about, you know, if the prosecution didn't do certain things that's malpractice. The defense has the same burden. They have got to put evidence in to prove their theory of the case and if it's out there and they don't use it, Jane, they could be slapped for ineffective assistance of counsel.

It's not painting him as a monster. You're using his own words. You're using reasons that would explain her self-defense claim I was afraid of this man.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We've been also talking about the eerie parallels between Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony. Tomorrow on the show we're going to go deeper into those chilling similarities and we're going to show you some clips from the brand new Lifetime movie that airs this weekend about Casey Anthony starring Rob Lowe as the prosecutor, Jeff Ashton. And I'm told that our show is all over that Lifetime movie.

And so join us tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. We're going to get into that and more on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I am not some jealous (inaudible) maybe a sense of insecurity.

FLORES: A little more than a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with a heartbeat to you.

ARIAS: We didn't date per se. We just hung out.

FLORES: It's obvious you guys are having sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overly affectionate in front of a bunch of other people. He just kind of waving his -- like a gnat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems kind of childish because she would say things like I don't know what I'll do if I can't have him. Or, you know, he would be such a great father to my children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why did Jodi Arias become obsessed with Travis Alexander in particular? What is it about -- what was it about Travis? What was it about Jodi Arias? Why him? And on the other side, we're going to analyze that with a psychologist.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have photographs indicating that Miss Arias was a welcome guest in the home after 5:00 that afternoon. We know that something changed at that point in time. That is depicted on those cameras.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Jeff Gardere, why do you think Jodi Arias became obsessed with Travis Alexander in particular that person?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think he was certainly the flavor of the month -- don't use your imagination on that. But certainly this is a young woman who has a borderline personality, that love/hate picture we see all the time; a dependent personality where that idea without you, I'm nothing.

And I think what the defense is going to try to show was this woman had psychological vulnerabilities where she became obsessed with this individual. And if nothing else, that very unstable personality at the end of the day is showing some sort of a mental illness and therefore, they're going to try to get her out of getting a death penalty, if nothing else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that people become obsessed with somebody else when they have a quality that they themselves desire but they don't want to either do the work or don't feel they're capable of having that. So they eroticize that desire and they become obsessed. They develop a crush on the person whose qualities they desire.

And Jodi Arias wanted to be a success. She wanted to be the center of attention. She wanted to be that charismatic person that everybody's drawn to. And that's exactly what Travis Alexander was. He was a charismatic person. He was a motivational speaker and she wanted that.

And that's my analysis, but what do I know?

Lisa, Canada -- your question quickly.

LISA, CANADA (via telephone): Well, thank you, Jane. I've heard over the weeks about how Jodi has defended herself from Travis. However, if she has defended herself, why did he have many stabs in his back? 10 to 12 stabs I've heard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question on the other side of the break, we're going to ask our four legal panelists, does Jodi Arias have to take the stand to tell this story, to sell this story of self-defense?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's her foot. And this is Mr. Alexander.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With regard to that, ever seen any of these pants?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't recall seeing them, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She confided in you about the relationship, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she never confided in you that she killed him, did she?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will Jodi have to take the stand if she has any hope of selling her argument of self-defense, starting with former prosecutor Wendy Murphy?

MURPHY: Self-defense only works if there's actual evidence that you were fearful for your life at the time you committed the crime. She was the only one there. So, look, there's a constitutional right to put on a defense. The risk here is there's no constitutional right to lie. There's a constitutional right to remain silent and put on a defense but you can't lie.

She faces a lot of trouble if she gets up and again tells a fake story. She will be cross-examined right into the mud. The prosecution will grind her down with all past lies. Yes, she can and she should because there is no other evidence. But that doesn't mean it's going to work.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Brian Silber, 20 seconds.

SILBER: Absolutely. If they're going to rely on the battered girlfriend, so to speak, defense, she has to explain all the components of their relationship that drove her to the breaking point. And when we talk about self-defense, it may be the kind of situation where she -- he drove her all the way to that ledge and then over it.

So absolutely, she's going to have to take the stand, tell her story and explain her state of mind and why she was thinking the way she was in those moments.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz.

HONOWITZ: Yes, she has to take the stand. It's never going to work they're going to make mince meat out of her. And sticks and stones, she can say whatever she wants and call you names, it doesn't give you a right to slit someone's throat and stab him 29 times. So good luck but she's going to have to take the stand if she wants to carry through with this charade.

VELEZ-MITCHELL:L Holly Hughes, 15 seconds.

HUGHES: I disagree with everybody on the panel. I don't think they're going to put her on the stand. They can't risk it. They're going to try and use an expert. And the fact that they've already elicited on cross examination that she confessed now they're going to explain it away with a domestic violence expert. They can't risk putting her up. We all thought that in Casey Anthony and we swore she would have to take the stand. Guess what, she didn't. And she walked.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You never can predict what a defendant will do or a jury for that matter.

Nancy next.

END