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Lance Armstrong Could Face Legal Troubles; Tyler Hamilton Talks Lance Armstrong; Newt Gingrich Appears on "Parks and Recreation"; What MLK's Day Means to His Youngest Daughter.
Aired January 18, 2013 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETSY ANDREU, WIFE OF LANCE ARMSTRONG'S TEAMMATE: And he said no, no, no. Frankie rode the 2000 career. The vast majority of his tour was clean. What was his reward? He didn't get compensated for that tour, one. He lost his job and his career was derailed. That's -- that's going up against Lance Armstrong. Going up a decade of being excoriated by him. And I was willing to give him a chance. And this is how he responds? It just doesn't make sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: So, Sunny, for the former teammates, should they come back and sue him?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think there's no question that the civil litigation that we're going to see in this case is going to explode, Suzanne. If you're talking about someone interfering with their livelihood, defaming you, taking you down, there's no question that that I think is Lance Armstrong's real problem. Is he going to go to prison? A lot of folks are talking about perjury charges because he did testify under oath and certain cases. Well, the statute of limitations on perjury is five years so a lot of that opportunity to prosecute him for perjury is over.
The real problem that I think that Lance Armstrong is the civil cases, the one case brought by Floyd Landis that is still pending. I mean he's looking for about $30 million and there are triple damages in that case. Now you're talking about a $90 million case. And you're talking about all these other potential lawsuits against him because he not only brazenly and defiantly denied these accusations of doping. He also attacked these other people and took them down for lying. I think about the British paper, "The Sunday Times."
HOSTIN: I mean, he sued them for libel and won. Is that paper going to go after him for about $1.5 million? No question. So I think the list is going to go on and on and on in terms of people suing him for money.
MALVEAUX: Yes, he's going to have a trouble in the future.
Sunny, thank you. Appreciate it. HOSTIN: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: Coming up, Piers Morgan is sitting down with Lance Armstrong's former teammate, Tyler Hamilton, what he thinks Armstrong needs to do in terms of apologizing.
MALVEAUX: He denied doping for years. Well, now Lance Armstrong says he lied and that he's sorry. But the apology enough?
Piers Morgan is joining us now. He has an exclusive interview with Armstrong's former teammate, Tyler Hamilton.
Piers, take it away.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST, PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT: I do, Suzanne. Thank you very much.
Tyler, you're one of the most fascinating people to talk to about this because you've been saying for a long time that Armstrong doped. Finally, you got vindication. It came out of his own mouth. Where were you? What did you feel when you saw it?
TYLER HAMILTON, ARMSTRONG TEAMMATE: Yes, my wife, Melinda, and I were over here at a friend's house. The motel room didn't have the OWN network. So I was watching at a friend's house. And I never expected this day would come.
MORGAN: Did you feel shocked, saddened, angry, all those things?
HAMILTON: I'm not really angry anymore. I have been through this whole process, you know, I know where Lance sort of is today, on a smaller scale, a much smaller scale, I kind of feel what Lance is going through today.
MORGAN: Was he finally telling the truth from your knowledge?
HAMILTON: Parts of the truth. Parts of the truth.
MORGAN: Were there bits where you thought, he's still lying, even to himself?
HAMILTON: Number one, I think Oprah did a great job.
MORGAN: Yes, I agree.
HAMILTON: She had some fantastic question. I love the way she opened it up with the yes/no answers. I was saved with those yes/no answers. I was satisfied just after those yes/no questions.
HAMILTON: Just because he has made the first steps. There are many more steps for Lance Armstrong. MORGAN: One of the key parts to me, in terms of you and the other riders, was when he talked about the allegation that he's a bully. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, OWNER, OWN NETWORK: Were you a bully?
LANCE ARMSTRONG, CYCLIST: Yes, yes, I was a bully.
WINFREY: Tell me how you were a bully.
ARMSTRONG: I was a bully in the sense that you just, that I tried to control the narrative and if I didn't like what somebody said, and for whatever reasons in my own head, whether I viewed that as somebody being disloyal or a friend turning on you or whatever, I tried to control that, saying that's a lie, they're liars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Your reaction to that?
HAMILTON: It's nice to finally hear him own up to some of his faults.
MORGAN: In a way, he kind of emerges as a sort of Bernie Madoff character, where people in his club were finally able to be honest. You said when you were a young racer, to start with you weren't allowed in the doping club, and when you were, you thought, now I'm able to compete at the higher honor.
HAMILTON: It was almost like I was accepted into a fraternity. Originally, I was just pledging the fraternity, and once they thought I was good enough, they kind of brought me in.
MORGAN: Lance Armstrong, his whole demeanor last night -- let me lay my cards on the table. I think he's a biggest cheat in sporting history. I think he's crushed many people's dreams with his confession. I know people he's bullied, journalists in Britain, and he's sued and won millions of dollars off. To me, he's a complete disgrace.
What I found fascinating about watching the interview was the way he tried to frame everything as if, look, I don't even really think I was a cheat. What I was doing is what everybody else was doing? What do you think of that argument?
HAMILTON: I think he was basically trying to say it was an even playing field, we were all doping, more or less, and we were all doing the same things. But that's not true. The -- it had a lot to do with money. It had a lot to do with connections. It had a lot to do with whether you're a risk taker or not. You could have been the best athlete in the world, but if you didn't function well under high pressure, you know, would have taken risks, then you're going to be in the back of the pack.
MORGAN: There was a moment when he talked directly about you. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARMSTRONG: We said no holds barred.
WINFREY: How was it done? You said it was smart, but it wasn't the most sophisticated. What we have read, what we have heard, is it true? Motor Man dropping off EPO.
ARMSTRONG: That was true.
WINFREY: That was true? Were you blood doping in the stage 11 of the 2000 tour, stopping at a hotel? Tyler Hamilton says you stopped at a hotel.
ARMSTRONG: I'm confused on the stages. But, yes, certainly that was the --
WINFREY: But in the middle of the tour. Tyler Hamilton also said that there would be times when you all were injecting EPO in a camper or in a tent, and right outside, the fans would be outside and you all would be dumping the syringes in Coke cans. Is that true?
ARMSTRONG: I didn't read Tyler's book. I don't necessarily remember that, but I'm certainly not going to say that's a lie, that's not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I think we can take that to mean it was true, sort of near to a confession. He didn't seem very apologetic from his view to me.
HAMILTON: He has never been one that's been super apologetic. I don't think he ever apologized back in the day when we were teammates for a whole lot of anything really. He doesn't show a whole lot of emotion. And last night, I did see, for Lance Armstrong, quite a bit of emotion.
MORGAN: By his standards?
HAMILTON: By his standards, sure.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break. I want to come back and ask you, how good of a rider would he have been without the drugs. Would he have still have won seven Tour de Frances is had not been doping?
MORGAN: Back now with my exclusive interview with Tyler Hamilton, the former teammate of Lance Armstrong.
The big question I think a lot of people are asking today -- I'll play you a clip first before you give me the answer -- is would Lance Armstrong have been as good a rider without the doping in terms of his success rate. Was he good enough to have won anyway?
Let's see what he had to say about that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WINFREY: You said to me earlier, you don't think it was possible to win without doping?
ARMSTRONG: Not in that generation. And I'm not here to talk about others in that generation. It's been well documented. I didn't invent the culture, but I didn't try to stop the culture. That's my mistake. And that's what I have to be sorry for. And that's -- and the sport is now paying the price because of that, and so I am sorry for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Would he have been the best anyway, Tyler? Was all this worth the torment he will now have to live with?
HAMILTON: Not one bit. Not one bit. If everybody else or the people who were doping and he wasn't, no, he wouldn't have won.
MORGAN: But if they hadn't been -- if no one had been doping --
HAMILTON: If everyone was 100 percent clean? It's tough to say. I don't think he would have won seven tours. He's a phenomenal athlete. He grew up being a triathlete. And his success when he learned to ride a bike and learned to ride it in road races, he was one of the best early on.
MORGAN: He said he never feared being caught --
MORGAN: -- which I find extremely hard to believe, given the scale of the deception with the Swiss bank accounts and the secret passwords and everything else he came out with last night. He clearly was going a long way to hide it. Do you think he was being honest, he didn't think he would be caught?
HAMILTON: We had code words for this and that and everything and secret phones and all that, so it's hard to believe that he wasn't afraid of getting caught. But, you know, maybe he wasn't. Maybe that's how we're different. You know, he's like no other person I have ever met. His desire to win was, you know, was much greater than mine, that's for sure.
MORGAN: Do you feel sorry for him?
HAMILTON: He had to win. I would have liked to win.
MORGAN: That's the difference in many great champions.
HAMILTON: He was cut throat. He was cut throat.
MORGAN: Do you feel sorry for him? He trashed you. And when you came out when your book.
HAMILTON: Yes, we have a whole history --
MORGAN: He just kept trashing you. He was saying it was all lies and you were trying to smear him.
HAMILTON: Do I feel sorry for him? You know, yes and no. Yes, because -- but just watching him last night on TV, I haven't southeastern him last time he approached me in Aspen about a year and a half ago. I haven't seen him since then.
MORGAN: What did he say to you then?
HAMILTON: Yes, just some unkind words that he was going to make my life a living hell, in the courtroom and out.
MORGAN: So it was a real threat.
HAMILTON: -- when that federal investigation was going on.
MORGAN: He was bullying you then?
HAMILTON: And I was very angry for those -- for that encounter, for a long time, and scared for a while too, because he's a powerful guy. And I did take those words seriously. But still, I'm not a vindictive person. I don't like to see anybody suffer.
HAMILTON: No, obviously not.
MORGAN: What would you like to say to him now if you had a chance, just you and him in a room?
HAMILTON: Last night, on Oprah was the first step, so a pat on your back for that. Congratulations, good for you for doing that. It's just a small step. But the first step is the hardest and now you have to continue. And the next step is testifying in front of USADA and the World Doping Association. And doing the right thing, telling the truth, naming names. It's not pleasant, but he needs to do it. There are other people involved in this whole fiasco.
MORGAN: He's been apologizing to a lot of people. He's been sending e-mails from journalists. Others have had phone calls and so on. Would you like him to pick up the phone to you or drop you a line to say sorry?
HAMILTON: I prefer he spends that time he would spend with me with someone else, like M.O. Riley or Betsy Andreu. Those are the people -- he did his fair share with me but those are the people he really destroyed. Today, I'm not angry at Lance Armstrong. But there are plenty of people where it's a lot more raw, Betsy Andreu, from some of those videos last night, she's still very, very --
MORGAN: Well, he trashed her entire reputation.
HAMILTON: The thing he said to M.O. Riley. I don't know if he's spoken to her yet. It sounds like he's tried to reach out to her, but he owes her. He needs to fly over there and meet with her face to face.
MORGAN: Does any of the success that you had with him count for anything now? Or is it all completely discredited?
HAMILTON: It counts for a lot of things, a lot of life -- I learned a lot of hard lessons and I'm a much better person for it today. You know, but all the results on the bike, I look at my whole career as one crazy fiasco. you can delete my name off all the results, that's absolutely fine.
MORGAN: Including an Olympic gold medal, which you handed back.
HAMILTON: Yes. Right.
MORGAN: Tyler, it's been fascinating talking to you. It must have been an extraordinary experience to watch that interview last night, finally seeing the man who was your leader, the boss, the mentor, the general of the team finally confessing.
Thank you very much.
HAMILTON: Yes, thank you for having me.
MORGAN: Suzanne, a fascinating interview there with Tyler.
MALVEAUX: Piers, it's kind of sad to say he's perfectly fine, erasing all the books, his career because of cycling. Really destroyed because of this.
I understand that you have another big interview tonight. Charlie Sheen weighing in on this, as well?
MORGAN: Yes, it's actually a very mature or a very different sounding Charlie Sheen to the one I last talk to two years ago. But he's fascinated about Lance Armstrong, who he had a pretty ruined and testy encounter with himself a few years back.
Let's take a little watch of the clip here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MORGAN: The other big choir is the Lance Armstrong.
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: Right.
MORGAN: What is your view of him?
SHEEN: I met him once at a party and I'm assuming he was in a bad mood, as he wasn't the friendliest guy in the room.
MORGAN: He was rude to you?
SHEEN: But I'm sure people have said that about me, from time to time. Not too often, because I'm pretty approachable.
MORGAN: What did he say to you?
SHEEN: I said, Mr. Armstrong, I'm sorry to bother you -- I think he was talking to Sheryl Crowe -- and I said, I'm Charlie Sheen, and I want to shake your hand, and he said, that's nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: A fascinating interview with Charlie Sheen, a whole hour. He talks about everything, from gun control, Lance Armstrong, "Two and a Half Men." It is hilarious and moving in parts. A very different sounding, different looking Charlie Sheen. Much more mature. I think people will enjoy it very much.
MALVEAUX: Looking forward to it, Piers. Thanks again.
MORGAN: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: A look at this disgraced cyclist. Watch "The World According to Lance Armstrong" this Saturday at 10:00 p.m. eastern.
MALVEAUX: Former presidential candidate, Newt Gingrich, walked into a restaurant for a quiet dinner. Here's what he got instead, a role in NBC's "Parks and Recreation." They were shooting a scene in the restaurant. They couldn't resist writing him into the script. That's right.
It was just a quick cameo, but he delivered his line on cue. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Gingrich, Gergich, I wonder if we're related.
NEWT GINGRICH, (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't think so, Jerry.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Gingrich isn't the only well-known politician to appear on the show. Vice President Biden, Senator John McCain, Senator Barbara Boxer and former Senator Olympia Snowe all made cameos.
So did President Obama cut a recent golf game short to avoid losing? That's what former president, Bill Clinton, implies. Clinton said President Obama went from a five-stroke lead to a one-stroke lead during their last game, their game last month. He joked about the incident at an event in Palm Springs, California, telling the crowd, "I'm only one down and he leaves at hole 13, and says, got to go." Clinton didn't accuse the president of ducking out to avoid a loss, but he admitted playing the presidential card himself in the past.
And just in time for an inauguration, the White House releasing a new official portrait photo of the president, shows him smiling with his arms folded, standing in front of his desk in the Oval Office. The president has more gray hair than four years ago.
And, of course, speaking of hair, First Lady Michelle Obama rocking a new do, has some bangs. Michelle Obama debuting the new look yesterday. That was actually her 49th birthday as well. Happy birthday.
Monday, not just the day of President Obama's second inauguration. It is also Martin Luther King Jr Day. I spoke with the Reverend King's youngest child, Bernice King, at the Martin Luther King Center here in Atlanta about her new children's book and how she thinks we should remember her father and his message.
BERNICE KING, YOUNGEST CHILD OF REVEREND KING: Dr. King's work and his mission and his messages are important to the future of our nation. And although we have come a long way, we still have to finish the work of Dr. King.
This is the 50th anniversary year, "I Have a Dream" speech. And so we thought it apropos to put his words, the "I Have a Dream" portion, in print for children. So there are wonderful oil paintings throughout. Very few people are able to capture him. And I think he's done just a wonderful job here.
MALVEAUX: What do you think is the most important thing you can do to serve your community on this day?
KING: What I think is most important is that you serve. You know, we know that the famous quote now, "Everybody can be great because anybody can serve. All you need is a heart full of grace and a soul generated by love." And so this day is an opportunity, every year, for people to graduate. And what I mean by that is service is really about others. And we live in a very self-centered society. Some would say we're very narcissistic. But this holiday occurs at the beginning of the year. So it almost is right in your face at that time of year you make New Year's resolutions.
KING: And so why not use even the king holiday to say, this year, I'm going to find a way to be even more other centered. And that expresses itself in a lot of different forms. It could be the fact that I spent a lot of time, you know, hoarding, you know, hurting, pain and anger. I'm going to forgive somebody today. That's serving. That's healing. That creates community. That creates fellowship.
So whether you're going to do something for little kids and an orphan home, if you're going to do some cleanup in a community, but I would hope people do some personal things too because we look at service as an outward act, but I think true service comes from the heart, and it is the heart connecting with another heart. And there is so many people that feel ignored every day, not paid attention to. And even -- this sounds kind of, you know, maybe shallow for some people, but to hug somebody, with a genuine hug on that day, particularly somebody that may be different from you --
KING: -- can be so relieving. And it can add so much to who we are as humanity.
MALVEAUX: I'm going to give you a hug, Bernice.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
KING: Thank you. I appreciate it.
MALVEAUX: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: Such a pleasure to meet her and to talk to her again.
One of the things she talked about as well that we are also going to be airing later over the weekend, and that really is all about what she believes should be the president's priorities coming into the next administration, second administration. She talks about the need to address disparities in the African-American community, and the wider population, when it comes to poverty. She also talked about immigration reform, the fact that dealing with Latino community and immigration reform is something that she would like to see the president accomplish. And, of course, the very, very special occasion to actually have her father's Bible being used for the president to take the oath of office. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Although we have come a long way, we still have to finish the work of Dr. King. So symbolically, it is time that movement into his presidency and saying that we have got some serious work to do. And it starts -- not starts, but it continues in a deeper level in this second term that he has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: She also weighed in as well, what the president should do in terms of his second term, where he has room for improvement. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I know there is always a concern about the African-American community not feeling perhaps that the issues related to our community have been addressed effectively. And I think there is some room for improvement in that regard. We have to be honest with the fact that African-American, the vote community and the Latino-Hispanic community helped get him elected. That community, those communities have to be adequately addressed. Daddy would not ignore the fact that we have some serious issues to still address disparities related to the majority culture and the black community and the Latino-Hispanic community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: She was a pleasure.
The full interview airing at 4:00 p.m. eastern this Sunday on CNN.
That's it for me. Brooke Baldwin up next with CNN NEWSROOM.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Dramatic developments in that terror attack involving American hostages. You will hear this one man's story on how he escaped and the bomb that was strapped around his neck.
I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.