Return to Transcripts main page
PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Interview with Charlie Sheen
Aired January 18, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Two words strike fear into the heart of Hollywood's bigwigs: Charlie Sheen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: When the show is run by AA Nazis, it takes on a different light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: He's a man who has never been afraid to speak his mind, and tonight, he's at it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: I was (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in my response to him.
MORGAN: Right. I mean --
SHEEN: Complete and total, yes. I was an ass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: People will tell you he's dangerous, unpredictable. Of course, that's exactly why I like him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: I don't want to say that time aged me, but it certainly put more salt in my saddle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Charlie Sheen -- the good, the bad, and the utterly outrageous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: You may want to it down just a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: And the one thing you never thought you would hear Charlie Sheen say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: You're not that crazy guy anymore?
SHEEN: No, I'm not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Charlie Sheen, an extraordinary hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Welcome back, sir.
SHEEN: Thank you. Thanks, Piers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Ding ding, round two. This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
MORGAN: Good evening.
If you asked me to name my top three all time guests, then Charlie Sheen would definitely be one of those. He's honest, he's funny, candid and completely, gloriously unpredictable. I'm not even sure that Charlie knows where he's going to go next.
He's a Hollywood veteran, but it's his roles off screen that have been grabbing headlines in recent years, especially his now infamous battles with his old hit show, "Two and A Half Men."
To simply put, there's no one else quite like Charlie Sheen.
It's been nearly two years since I sat down with him and he's back with me again.
Charlie, it is a great pleasure --
SHEEN: Likewise, likewise.
MORGAN: -- to see you again. How are you?
SHEEN: Thank you. I'm doing great. How are you?
MORGAN: I've got to say, you look great.
SHEEN: I feel good. Thank you. So do you.
MORGAN: I've been watching you do a little --
MORGAN: -- little rounds of the shows and I've been thinking Charlie is in good nature.
SHEEN: Thank you. It's called sleep.
SHEEN: Yes. Start there.
SHEEN: Start there. I --
MORGAN: Well, let's take a little look, before we go any further, at a clip from the last interview we did.
This is February, 2011.
MORGAN: And I think it would be politely described as the height of Sheen mania.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I mean, addiction specialists, you've seen them all coming out in the last few days --
SHEEN: I've been around them for 22 years.
MORGAN: Right. And --
SHEEN: They've been lying to me for two decades.
MORGAN: Right. I'm going to come to that --
MORGAN: -- but that's the premise of their argument with you, is that you're in some kind of denial about this. And, actually, you've never really stopped until I've got to sort of myself out properly. That if you do follow their program --
MORGAN: -- they can work.
MORGAN: And lots of people would be watching this, saying, it worked for me.
SHEEN: And then I can have a life like theirs? I'm going to pass.
MORGAN: Really? Why?
SHEEN: Why? Because I'm a winner and their lives look like they're, you know, ruled by losers. I mean, just to put it in black and white terms. I don't -- I don't want their lives and they want mine, but they want to criticize the hell out of it, you know?
And now they've run the gamut from like, OK, he's not loaded, now what? Oh, he's manic.
I don't even know what that means. That, I guess, would imply that that's going to be a crash. I don't know when that's coming, but maybe you can cover it when it does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Two fascinating things. One, what you were saying there --
MORGAN: Two, your reaction to what you were saying there.
SHEEN: How about letting you finish the question?
MORGAN: That's all right. I interrupted --
MORGAN: -- (INAUDIBLE).
MORGAN: What do you feel about what you just watched there, yourself?
SHEEN: It's a little cringeable. It's a little bit cringeable. It's a little bit -- it's a little bit hard to watch. I mean, at times, I thought I looked OK.
But, no, it's -- it's a guy who's involved in something that -- something otherworldly at the time. It's very --
MORGAN: You were like --
SHEEN: -- very bizarre.
MORGAN: You were at war with everybody.
SHEEN: Yes. Yes.
MORGAN: It's really a war with everyone.
SHEEN: Yes, whether they were picking a fight or not.
SHEEN: You know, yes, lighten up, Francis, right? (LAUGHTER)
MORGAN: Has your view of addiction and how to deal with it changed in -- in the two years since then?
SHEEN: Um, it's softened a little bit. You know, I mean as -- as vitriolic as I was there, obviously. But, yes, I still am completely by the disease model -- I still am completely, you know, being a part of an establishment or an association that has a 4 percent success rate, you know? And those aren't numbers I'm making up.
But, yes, I don't -- I don't miss that. I don't miss that group, to be honest with you, yes.
MORGAN: You're not -- you're not that crazy guy anymore?
SHEEN: No, I'm not. No.
MORGAN: I mean you were very wired that day. I mean, actually, it was a fascinating interview. And you've done many really, sort of, I thought that almost insane interviews with other people deliberately goading you.
MORGAN: And, actually, me just sitting back and letting you talk, I thought, was riveting television.
SHEEN: Thank you.
MORGAN: And you were the guy who, at the time, had walked away from the highest paid TV gig in America. People don't do that in the United States.
SHEEN: Well, but walking away and getting fired are -- two different things. You know?
MORGAN: You could have avoided being fired, probably.
SHEEN: I think you're right. I think you're right. Yes.
MORGAN: So it was a choice you -- you sort of made for yourself.
SHEEN: I think I -- I think I -- I know I was right on the verge and I -- and I -- and I pushed it.
I did -- I did want out of there after season three, though. It was just -- it was funny. It was just no fun at all, you know?
And it -- and I was so -- I was so -- I was so upset and shocked that we'd be having this great, tremendous success and nobody was laughing when we're doing it, you know, except the audience.
And it was just -- I thought this isn't how I thought it was supposed to be.
MORGAN: How hard was it for you, even with all the experience you had, to have your life in this huge goldfish bowl over that period, where everybody was talking about nothing else but Charlie Sheen?
SHEEN: It was -- it was pretty adrenal. It was -- it was -- it was pretty unnerving at times. It was -- it was -- it was exciting, though, to -- to have my Tweets opening like the "CBS Evening News," stuff like that.
MORGAN: It was crazy.
SHEEN: It was just pretty --
MORGAN: These are like 5 million -- I remember, because on my show, you may not remember this --
MORGAN: -- you weren't on Twitter. And we talked about it in one of the breaks.
SHEEN: I hadn't started yet?
MORGAN: No. And I -- and you said to me, the only thing about it, I said I think you -- you would get so many followers.
SHEEN: Seriously? Wow!
MORGAN: I think it was the next day you started on Twitter?
SHEEN: And that's what started (INAUDIBLE). Yes.
MORGAN: And within a week, you had 5 million followers.
SHEEN: Yes, it was pretty exciting.
MORGAN: And now you've got whatever it is, 8 million, 9 million --
SHEEN: I've got 8 million and then another 3 million on Facebook, yes. So, no, it's -- I'm just glad that people stuck with me. I'm glad they stuck with me. It's -- it's an interesting idea. It's an interesting concept and hence, an interesting reality. The whole Twitter movement, I don't still quite totally understand it.
MORGAN: And you're great, though, because you zap away and you engage with people. But ultimately, you're Charlie Sheen on Twitter.
MORGAN: I mean, you are the character.
SHEEN: Right. Right. Right.
MORGAN: You're -- you're -- you know, you're funny, you're sharp, you're controversial. You don't really care.
SHEEN: I'm not here melting. Sorry.
SHEEN: It's a little hot in here, isn't it?
SHEEN: Sorry about that.
Well, I think it's -- it -- if it's done tastefully. I don't want to use it as a -- as a platform to insult people or attack people or movements or organizations. But, I think it is a -- I think it's a fabulous tool for fans, especially to get messages out like you've been doing, which has been really, really amazing.
MORGAN: On the gun thing?
SHEEN: Yes, the stand you're taking is really -- it's really impressive.
MORGAN: But what do you think of the -- the whole gun debate?
Because I'm always very consciously aware that I'm not an American and the culture in my country is very different. We don't -- we weren't reared on guns.
MORGAN: And when a gun is around, I mean --
SHEEN: How many --
MORGAN: -- very few guns around.
SHEEN: How many -- how many homicides in your country last year with handguns?
MORGAN: Well, the last recorded year of 2011 in England and Wales was 39. In America, the same year, 11,500, 12,000.
MORGAN: I mean, it's a completely different world, which I find very scary.
MORGAN: So I don't understand quite why people wouldn't want to try and deal with it. Do you understand?
SHEEN: It depends. I think the problem that the people face -- well, there's two things. If anybody from the NRA wants to look any of those parents in the eyes from that -- from that school and tell them that guns are still necessary, then I -- then I urge them to and see how that goes.
It's not --
MORGAN: For a particular type of assault weapons.
SHEEN: Yes. Yes, because we're not supposed to bury our children and nobody would if -- if it hadn't happened. And it wouldn't have happened if that weapon wasn't involved.
But I think that the problem -- and the argument a lot of people are going to make is that how do you take the -- how do you get the guns from the bad guys, because the bad guys have guns and the good guys want guns, you know?
And people's, you know, with -- within our Constitution, the -- the right to bear arms. But, you know, during the time of a -- establishing a militia, correct, which we don't really have to do these days.
MORGAN: I mean, I get -- I get why --
SHEEN: We have a standing army and all that, you know?
MORGAN: -- I get why Americans want to defend themselves at home. I do get that.
MORGAN: I don't get why anybody needs or would want to use an assault weapon that could fire 100 bullets in a minute. I mean, you can't use them for hunting.
MORGAN: Not for sport.
SHEEN: If you're part of a -- if you're part of a tactical team or you're fighting a war, yes.
MORGAN: Have you ever owned guns yourself?
SHEEN: I have, yes. Yes, I was a -- I was a -- not a hunter, but I was a -- I'm a target shooter and a -- more of a weapons collector, with a lot of vintage stuff and I've alternated through the -- the years of -- of various weaponry.
And then I had a domestic and they took them all away and I haven't got them back, so I'm --
MORGAN: And how do you feel about that? SHEEN: I'm OK with it. I have a security team that's pretty well-armed.
MORGAN: But do you -- do you miss having guns around?
SHEEN: I miss shooting. I had an underground range at my house and I would go down there and spend hours. It was very Zen for me.
But I -- but I didn't -- I didn't carry and I didn't -- I didn't feel like, something that was a -- they were tools for -- for what I was using them for, not for all the negative stuff, you know?
MORGAN: When you see people say that, look, you can't ignore the influence of a violent Hollywood film --
MORGAN: -- you made "Platoon" --
MORGAN: -- one of the great war films of all time.
Do you see any correlation between violent Hollywood films or video games, perhaps, and some of these incidents?
Do you think it can --
MORGAN: -- influence people?
SHEEN: Yes, I think it can. I think it can.
I mean, there's -- I mean, thankfully, there's -- there's enough of us out there that just view it as -- as entertainment, you know, and have fun with it. I think there's -- there's -- I think more damage can be done with a -- with a show like "Criminal Minds," where like some guy is out there planning his next big serial kill and gets the idea from some of that stuff, where it's just really twisted and evil and hard to what watch, you know?
MORGAN: I mean, Quentin Tarantino would argue, as he has done about his own films, that he merely reflects what is actually happening in real life.
MORGAN: It's chicken and the egg and he's the egg, if you like.
SHEEN: Sure. Sure.
MORGAN: And this stuff is going on.
SHEEN: But the movies can influence things in a -- in a different direction, as well, you know, because people put so much -- so much power into -- into that visual and that -- you know, what they -- the places that they're taken to when they go to a film, you know?
So I think that it can -- it can have a big positive impact or -- or a negative one.
I don't know, I wish -- I wish I had a solution and I -- and I do, and I'm sure you feel the same way, you know?
MORGAN: I feel very sort of frustrated, like I think a lot of people do, that you can't even have the debate. I mean, we're having a civilized conversation about this.
SHEEN: Sure. Yes. Yes.
MORGAN: A lot of people just can't even do that.
MORGAN: They just want to get so intensely enraged about the Second Amendment or their right to bear arms that they can't really see, as I see it, the wood for the trees.
SHEEN: Yes, no, it's --
MORGAN: Which is why does anyone need an AR-15 military-style weapon anyway?
MORGAN: I don't know what you would use it for.
SHEEN: Fighting a war.
SHEEN: Fighting a war.
MORGAN: Well, I mean, that's --
SHEEN: Fighting a war, yes.
MORGAN: In "Platoon," I get.
MORGAN: The other big story of the week has been Lance Armstrong.
MORGAN: What's your view of him? SHEEN: I met him once at a party and I'm assuming he was in a bad mood, because he wasn't the friendliest guy in the world. But, I'm --
MORGAN: He was rude to you?
SHEEN: Yes, I'm sure people have said that about me from time to time. Not -- not too often, though, because I'm -- I'm pretty approachable.
MORGAN: What did he say to you?
SHEEN: I said, I said, Mr. Armstrong, I'm sorry to bother you. I think he was talking to Sheryl Crow. And, I said I'm Charlie Sheen. I just want to shake your hand.
And he -- he said, that's nice.
MORGAN: When was this?
SHEEN: That's nice.
MORGAN: When was this?
SHEEN: And I said no, it's not nice, ass.
SHEEN: This was probably five years ago, six years ago.
MORGAN: And that's all he said to you?
SHEEN: Yes. Yes.
MORGAN: Did he ever shake your hand?
MORGAN: But he didn't really want to.
SHEEN: I don't think so. Again --
MORGAN: And then what happened?
SHEEN: Again, I don't want to -- I don't want to, you know, tell both sides of the story, because I don't know what he was into that night, or what was going on.
And then I just -- I -- I've just been on the sidelines with the rest of us watching the fall from grace, you know?
MORGAN: I mean, to me, he's one of the biggest and worst cheats in sporting history, because the number of lives that he adversely affected, you know, I get all the Livestrong thing.
SHEEN: Right. MORGAN: Given this big Oprah interview where he admitted, finally, that he cheated --
MORGAN: -- to me, he's sort of an American icon, in many ways.
MORGAN: When an American icon is like that, whether it was Marion Jones or other sporting heroes, when they are caught cheating, I feel America really hurts.
SHEEN: For sure.
MORGAN: Because America puts these people on such pedestals.
MORGAN: It's a very patriotic country.
MORGAN: And sporting heroes, especially the ones who win globally, become really iconic.
MORGAN: What do you think?
SHEEN: I think America is very forgiving if the person hasn't been like you described some of the behavior that that Lance pursued. I think if -- I think if there's an -- the reason I've been forgiven for a lot of my stuff is because there's always been a feeling of honesty and the guy that at least was trying to do the right thing.
You know, I mean, I took steroids for a film back in '88, and they worked. And I stopped. And I admitted that and they wrote about it in "Sports Illustrated" and then it --
MORGAN: Which film was that?
SHEEN: "Major League."
SHEEN: And it put my fastball from a modest 73 to a decent 84, 85.
MORGAN: Did it really?
SHEEN: It made me crazy. It made me insane and angry and picking fights in bars, you know?
So I get it.
But it also gave me, in the final couple of weeks of the -- of the shooting, the energy I needed to -- to keep going, you know?
A lot of people talk about Bonds and well, you know, this Hall of Fame thing recently that I think was kind of a bit of a disaster, you know?
MORGAN: Well, it was a disaster --
MORGAN: -- because I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. These guys were clearly, most of them, were cheats.
So, I mean, why would you put a cheat into the Hall of Fame?
SHEEN: Well, I don't know. I mean, it's -- as far -- as far as Bonds, I don't know where the proof ever really was, you know, except for the way he looked visually, but that could be age to insult.
SHEEN: I don't know, man, I wasn't there.
SHEEN: Again, I wasn't there. That's the thing that people forget to mention --
MORGAN: But given that --
SHEEN: -- they weren't there.
MORGAN: -- you saw yourself the -- the positive effect of steroids --
MORGAN: -- on your ability to pitch.
SHEEN: Right. Right.
MORGAN: These guys aren't playing fair, are they?
SHEEN: Well, no, but it -- but it was nice to see that they were finally looking at the pitchers, as well, and not just the hitters, not just the guys hitting the ball, you know?
But, it -- but it still doesn't let you hit a baseball any better. It may give you, you know, extra legs deep in the -- deep in the season, but, you still have to have that God-given ability to hit the ball like he did. And he's the greatest hitter of all time.
MORGAN: Do you forgive Lance Armstrong then?
SHEEN: I'd like to sit down and talk to him and make my own opinion based on an experience with him, not just based on, you know, sideline Monday morning quarterbacking. MORGAN: Shake his hand and say, that wasn't nice.
SHEEN: That wasn't nice.
MORGAN: Let's take a break.
I want to come back and talk to you about other stuff, though. There's so much going on in your life.
SHEEN: Yes, there is. Yes, there is. It's exciting.
MORGAN: I want to know what your life is like in the last two years.
SHEEN: You've got it. You've got it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got mine fixed up like I want it to.
SHEEN: It sounds to me like a man cave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's a man cave?
SHEEN: It's a place where you can do whatever you want and nobody bothers you. It used to be called your life but then you got married, so now, it's just a room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Charlie Sheen's FX show, "Anger Management".
SHEEN: That was a good line. That was a good line.
MORGAN: It was a great line.
SHEEN: Actually, I liked that. Yes.
MORGAN: But that's a great show.
SHEEN: Thank you. Oh, thank you very much.
MORGAN: But what I love about you --
SHEEN: Thank you.
MORGAN: -- is you always choose shows where you basically are perfectly equipped to play the character you're playing.
SHEEN: Well, you're very kind, thank you. MORGAN: "Two and a Half Men", you're kind of loose, womanizing party boy.
SHEEN: Right. Right.
MORGAN: Evidence number one.
And in the second one, you play a guy he originally sentenced to anger management counseling. Again --
MORGAN: Does it ever get easier?
SHEEN: Life imitating -- yes.
SHEEN: Does it get easier?
Yes, it -- it makes it easier for people to understand the show off the bat, I think, you know?
Does it make easier for me?
Yes, if I can play things that I've that I've done in my life, sure. Then at least there's a sense of, uh, something real behind them when you're -- when you're portraying them. But I -- but I really like this character. He's so much more multi-dimensional than -- than Charlie Harper was, you know -- Charlie Goodson.
How many Charlies am I going to play?
SHEEN: Because I have "Charlie Swan" coming out also, you know?
MORGAN: I know you did a new movie --
SHEEN: Yes, wow! Wow! A lot of Charlies. I think that should be my last Charlie role, you know?
MORGAN: You're giving up Charlie completely?
SHEEN: I am. I didn't --
MORGAN: In all -- in all senses?
SHEEN: -- I didn't have any children, Charlie. I didn't do that. Um, Car -- Carlos is Bob's middle name. But, no, I -- I, um, this role, um, Bruce Helford, who's our -- who helped create the show with me, he -- we created this character together, um, but didn't flush it out completely, because we knew we'd have a few episodes to do that, you know?
And then, you know, we do. We have 100.
MORGAN: Well, there's an amazing --
SHEEN: I know.
MORGAN: I think over 90, right?
SHEEN: Yes. Yes. We did that 10 episode pilot.
MORGAN: Did you feel vindicated?
Because your whole position about "Two and A Half Men" and the sort of meltdown between you all was that you were still doing the business on screen --
MORGAN: Hugely popular.
SHEEN: Sure, yes.
MORGAN: Nothing you were doing in your private life, however chaotic --
MORGAN: -- actually was directly affecting what was appearing on screen.
SHEEN: No. No. I mean, it wasn't slowing us down or slowing -- slowing me down and, you know, personally. But it wasn't slowing the production down.
But, yes, no, it was really -- it was very satisfying, and not so much like in their face, because I think that that -- they're going to walk away from that at some point, you know, which they haven't (ph).
But, yes, just to let America know or let, you know, my friends and family know and myself know that I was still capable of doing this and -- and I -- that I wasn't -- that I was going to get back on the horse as soon as I -- as soon as I could.
And I basically brushed myself off and went across the street and put this thing together. And it's pretty exciting.
MORGAN: Is it more fun doing these sort of shows sober?
SHEEN: It's a lot more fun, yes, because you can make a lot more choices. You know, when you say sober, I'm never a guy that worked loaded, because, uh, doing a sit-com is so specific. It's like a big dance that has a very specific metronome on it, you know?
And so it's, the detail of the work is very difficult and you can't plan it if you're -- if you're fogged, you know?
MORGAN: Do you -- do you still party much or?
SHEEN: Not as much as I used to. Yes.
MORGAN: You haven't completely given up?
SHEEN: No. No, I'm not -- I don't -- I don't do as many drugs. I smoke a little pot, drink a little. But, no, I can't -- I'm just -- I'm 47.
How old -- I don't know your --
MORGAN: I'm the same age.
SHEEN: OK. Yes. So, you know, we've got to start thinking about the second half --
MORGAN: I'm really disappointed that you actually look better than me.
SHEEN: No, that's not true. Come on.
MORGAN: I mean, it's not like --
SHEEN: Come on.
MORGAN: -- a place you find itself.
SHEEN: No, it's --
MORGAN: -- Charlie Sheen and he looks a bit younger.
SHEEN: No, you're very kind. You're very kind.
SHEEN: You're very kind.
But as far as, yes, but it -- but when I said wasn't, you know, high on the set, I was hung over and like a -- like a bastard, you know? But, and I think that -- that can slow down the choices that -- that one can make, you know?
MORGAN: But does that really -- I've always wondered if that really makes a difference. I mean in movies or TV shows and all that, this is your -- your role you're playing is of some male model. SHEEN: Right.
MORGAN: It doesn't actually --
SHEEN: Where I have to look perfect all the time.
MORGAN: If you're playing a womanizing party boy, why would looking hangover be brand damaging?
SHEEN: It shouldn't be, but when the -- when the show is run by AA Nazis, then it takes on a different light --
MORGAN: Well, that brings me neatly to Chuck Lorre.
MORGAN: So come on, how -- how do you get on with him these days?
SHEEN: I still haven't spoken to him.
MORGAN: Not a single word?
SHEEN: No, nothing, zero, yes. Yes.
MORGAN: Have you come close to calling him or --
SHEEN: No, I think we were in the same, um, hotel lobby one night and missed each other by about 10 minutes.
MORGAN: What would you have said if you had bumped into him?
SHEEN: I'd have walked right up to him and said, hey, man, you know, good luck with everything. Sorry about that. And, see you -- you know, see you on campus.
MORGAN: You haven't --
SHEEN: I think that's what I would have done, you know?
SHEEN: Yes. I mean --
SHEEN: -- the fantasy, the fantasy is walking up and dropping him, but that's not -- that's not who I am. It's not who I am. You know, I'm not a violent guy.
MORGAN: Do you harbor resentment toward him?
SHEEN: I get -- yes, I just wish that -- that he would acknowledge, at some point, that he had a hand in it. He did put out a statement. The timing was perfect for him, actually, because nothing is like organic. It's always a little bit manufactured.
And it was right before we were going to debut. And he put out this mea culpa statement about I felt so bad at the time, but we did what we had to do and it was hard to move on and this and that.
So I felt good about that. But it was on the eve of us about to get like all this like bitching attention. And he didn't want to get --
MORGAN: I mean, in a weird way --
SHEEN: -- (INAUDIBLE), you know?
MORGAN: -- do you miss him?
SHEEN: There's parts of him I miss -- yes, because when I look back at the -- at the -- at the pilot of "Two and A Half," it was an absolute gem.
It was an absolute gem. And I -- and I almost agreed to do that show based on his enthusiasm and his track record without seeing a script. And what I said to him, I said, you know, what are you going to call it?
And when he said, "Two and A Half Men," I knew it was a hit.
And I read the script five days later. And at the act break, when I said, Angus, you've been better than a dog, I knew -- I knew we had gold.
MORGAN: But you're like --
SHEEN: -- I just knew it.
MORGAN: -- but it's like Guns N' Roses, really, isn't it, for Axl and Slash. You know, you made sweet music together and then it's all over, and probably everybody else would love you to work together again, because you made such great comedy. And yet you just can't even stand to be in the same room with each other.
SHEEN: I would so much like GNR to get back together before me and Chuck get back together.
MORGAN: Would you?
SHEEN: Just for the record, yes.
SHEEN: Yes, because that is -- that is a hole in -- in -- in my rock, you know, world as well, you know.
MORGAN: And what do you make of Ashton Kutcher? You vary between being critical of him and supportive --
SHEEN: I've got to get off his back. I've got to get off his back. No, he's a terrific young man and he's doing -- and he's doing a great job with what they've given him. And, I just -- he should be really grateful to John on there.
SHEEN: John is a genius.
MORGAN: Is this show good with him, do you think?
SHEEN: No. No, and I'm -- and not -- not because of -- well, yes, because of me. But --
SHEEN: Well, what they did, Piers, is they got rid of -- they downloaded their anchor. They cut off their anchor. And they -- and they went adrift. And I think you don't realize how important your anchor is until you don't have it, you know?
MORGAN: Do you ever watch it?
SHEEN: I watched it early on. I thought the first -- the first -- at first their -- their pilot episode had one of the great television moments of all time with the -- with the -- with the ashes and the reveal of the guy behind them. That was -- that was brilliant, but the show should have ended there and then said to be continued, you know?
But after that, I just don't know why billionaires wanted to buy a house with a kid and a guy and stay there and whatever. I don't know.
SHEEN: I don't know. They're living in my house.
MORGAN: Do you ever speak to him?
SHEEN: No. No, I -- no, I met him at the Emmys and he was really cool.
MORGAN: Was he friendly to you?
SHEEN: No, he was -- he was fabulous, yes.
MORGAN: He's actually a cool guy.
MORGAN: I've been interviewed him. I like him very much.
SHEEN: He is very sweet. Yes. And John keeps winning Emmys and it -- yes.
Angus, you know, had a little meltdown, yes.
MORGAN: Well, I was going to play you this. Let's watch a little bit of Angus' meltdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGUS T. ANGUS, ACTOR, "TWO AND A HALF MEN": See us and be like, oh, I can -- I can be a Christian and be on a show like "Two and a Half Men", you can't. You cannot be a true God-fearing person and be on a television show like that. I know I can't. I can't -- I'm not OK with what I'm learning, what the Bible says and being on that television show.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I mean, I do have a certain sympathy --
SHEEN: I have to ask --
MORGAN: Are you all completely (INAUDIBLE) on this show?
SHEEN: Angus, what does the Bible say about "Two and A Half Men?" Come on, brother.
SHEEN: What does that mean and what the Bible says? Wow. Wow!
MORGAN: Well, when you -- when you first saw that, what did you think?
SHEEN: I didn't think it was an act. I thought that, something had -- some influence had come into his life that he -- that he'd embraced and it didn't seem to be of the popular vote. I don't know.
MORGAN: Had he shown any signs of this kind of extreme religious philosophy or?
SHEEN: Not even close. Not even close, no. He -- I think at -- at one point, claimed to be agnostic, you know? Wow! And so we never really dealt with any of this stuff on the set. It was never -- religion was never -- I think there was one episode about it, but, you know, it wasn't like a water cooler topic or anything, you know?
MORGAN: But when he went off (INAUDIBLE), he then regretted it and said he wished he hadn't.
But when he did, did you try and reach out to him, because you --
SHEEN: No, because I knew when I did it with, you know, the amount of people coming at me, I knew that I probably -- I probably wouldn't get through. And, also, I just didn't want to be that guy that was like, hey, man, now that that happened, I'm calling, and he's like, well, why didn't you call before that. You know what I'm saying?
SHEEN: He's a terrific kid. And, this feels temporary. It doesn't feel like a Jonestown meltdown, you know?
MORGAN: Let's take another break.
SHEEN: Sorry. OK.
MORGAN: Let's come back and talk more meltdowns -- Lindsay Lohan, who you gave $100,000 to.
MORGAN: Back now with Charlie Sheen.
So, Charlie, why did you give Lindsay Lohan $100,000?
SHEEN: Good question.
SHEEN: I thought I was going to get it back. No --
MORGAN: Did you get it back?
SHEEN: No, no, no. It wasn't about that. I -- they offered me a ton of dough for one day's work. And I was flat and I said, great, I'll do it.
And then -- they said we want to hire Lindsay to make the team more epic, but we want to give her half of what we gave you. So we need to take it back.
Well, you guys, I'm broke, but fine. So they took it back from me and they only gave her shorted her 100 on what I thought they were going to. So I made up the difference. That's all it was.
And then she went public with it and talked about the tax -- I didn't know what -- I know there was a thing at the chateaux and that was it.
MORGAN: This is "Scary Movie 5." SHEEN: Yes, yes.
MORGAN: Was she grateful?
SHEEN: Eventually. Absolutely she was, yes. Eventually. It wasn't like right of the bat, though. In the moment when I mentioned it to her, she didn't -- I don't think she believed it was true. And then when it showed up, there was a bit of a delay, but that's fine. She's a busy young lady.
MORGAN: She is, in many ways, someone who has gone through a not dissimilar path from you. She was very famous, very young, and she's clearly struggled with that and with various demons, alcohol, drugs and so on. Can you actually, even you, give somebody like that advice? Or is it, in the end, the look in the mirror and work it out for yourself?
SHEEN: If -- the only thing that I was sad about -- if she had asked me questions about some of my own stuff, I would have gladly given her advice, but she didn't. I found that interesting. Maybe she didn't want to bother me, didn't want to pry.
MORGAN: How important is family? The reason I ask is obviously your family is all pretty famous. Your dad, from all reports -- you can clarify it if you want to now -- was pretty concerned about you last time I interviewed you.
SHEEN: I was a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in my response to him. Complete and total, yes. I was an ass.
MORGAN: Let's play what martin said.
SHEEN: It was very heartfelt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SHEEN, ACTOR: He struggles with a lot of demons and a lot of unresolved parts to his character that didn't get a chance to develop because suddenly he's an international celebrity before he was an adult. You know? And it took a severe toll on him. And there were influences upon him that were stronger than ours and we couldn't get to him.
You know, he had a lot of sycophants and a lot of people around him who were ill advising him on every conceivable level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: It was horrible. He was an international celebrity before he was an adult. That's powerful.
MORGAN: Very perceptive of him.
SHEEN: Yes, extremely. Yes.
MORGAN: Not dissimilar to Lindsay, of course. SHEEN: Yes. My reaction that was really shameful, at the time. Right now I'm very grateful for that. That's -- wow, it's a really accurate assessment.
MORGAN: When you react in the way that you do, which was pretty aggressively against what he said, how did he respond to that.
SHEEN: He didn't. He didn't. He is too -- he is too adult for that, you know? He figured it was me doing my thing, and we would come back together eventually.
MORGAN: And did that happen?
SHEEN: Oh, hell yeah.
MORGAN: How did that happen?
SHEEN: There was a moment we had where -- I think the tour ended. He came back from Spain. And we had a nice lunch together. We didn't really talk about much. He says, how are things doing? I said the tour was a mess. No more t-shirts? He's like yeah. He says, no more interviews? He said, no.
He said, then why don't you go get your money and take care of your kids. Go get your money and take care of your kids. That was pretty cool, yeah.
MORGAN: Good advice.
SHEEN: Yeah, it was. Just brought it down to basics.
MORGAN: Two months now?
SHEEN: I do. We work together now. He's on the show. Yes, he's fabulous. And he's really funny. He doesn't even know it. He doesn't even know how good he is on the show.
MORGAN: Does he know how possibly influential he's been on your recovery?
SHEEN: I think so. Yes, I think he does.
MORGAN: Which must makes him very proud?
SHEEN: It does It does. We're more friends than father/son relationship. But he's the guy I go to if there's something I can't figure. There's a lot I still can't. So why not go to the people who have been there before you.
MORGAN: When you see someone like Robert Downey Jr., for example, and others who go through these kinds of things --
MORGAN: Do you see the same kind of stuff going down when you see people like that go through the same stuff you went through? Or is everyone different?
SHEEN: They handle it differently. It looks a little bit differently on them. But I think it's a similar garment that we're all wearing, yeah. I think fame has a lot to do with it. I think excess has a lot to do with it. Not so much excess, but access. Access to anything with a phone call at any point, day or night, it doesn't matter. It's --
MORGAN: Money is no object.
MORGAN: And there's lots of people who want to make money off you. So you want drugs, you want booze, you want women, you want goddesses, whatever you like.
MORGAN: You can lead the fantasy life that everyone imagines it is. But the reality is it becomes a nightmare.
SHEEN: It can become a nightmare. At first, it's really bitching. At firs -- I can't sit here and lie to you. It's radical. It's everything that you thought it was going to be. And then it's not. And that turns on a dime. And suddenly there's an emptiness. There's a thing like wait, this was so cool an hour ago and now it sucks, you know, which is a big disappointment when that happens. You're like, now what?
MORGAN: But it may save your life.
SHEEN: Of course. Yes, save your boring life.
MORGAN: Right. Is that always the demon on your shoulder?
SHEEN: Yes. It's always like -- there's also the thing for me, it's like people have come to expect a certain -- a certain flair out of me, a certain type of behavior. And was I living it for them or for myself? Did it really feel good? Was it really who I wanted to be? I don't think it was who I wanted to be. I think it just -- again, things just sort of got ahead of themselves and you start playing catchup, trying to put the blocks back together.
MORGAN: Because I thought a lot of it was very entertaining, if I'm honest with you. I said that to you at the time. I found some of the stuff on the tour -- I began to think, I don't want Charlie doing this anymore.
SHEEN: Yes. I felt that after like show two.
MORGAN: It felt a bit uncontrollable and you were getting annihilated. I thought this whole winning thing --
SHEEN: It was brutal. I was not winning at all. I think what a lot of people don't realize is I was completely broke, because, you know, when they kept my back end and fired me and all that, I didn't have any money left. So I was using the tour to actually pay child support and mortgages and stuff like that. You know? So I'm grateful for that.
MORGAN: Did you have a moment of catharsis? Did you have a moment where you suddenly went, I'm not doing this anymore, or certainly not at the level I have been doing it?
SHEEN: It was in Detroit, opening night. No, it was -- that was bad, by the way. Detroit was bad.
MORGAN: I saw some video footage of that.
SHEEN: Dodging stuff. Literally dodging stuff. Yeah, it was about the adrenaline and the -- the -- sort of the forward momentum of it kind of lost its luster after about show seven. And I knew I had 15 or 14 left. And I just -- I didn't know. I didn't have an act. There was no act. I think people were expecting to show up and literally watch me die on stage or spontaneously combust or just like suddenly become cash and women. I don't know what they were expecting.
But it -- that's when I had to dig deeper and keep going, keep moving forward, because I gave this company my word that I would finish this. And I did, against all odds.
MORGAN: I look at you now and I see somebody not unrecognizable from two years ago, but certainly a very different Charlie Sheen.
SHEEN: I'm flattered, thank you.
MORGAN: I would say -- you may quibble with this, but I would say there's a maturity now.
SHEEN: I appreciate that. Thank you.
MORGAN: That maybe wasn't around then. And a self-awareness.
SHEEN: They say that religion is for people trying to stay out of hell and spirituality for those who have been through it, you know So I think I'm a little more spiritual. I just think -- I don't want to say that time aged me, but it certainly put a little more salt in my saddle. Was that an expression? I just made that up. Not bad, right?
MORGAN: Perfect link to what the next segment --
SHEEN: Is it about horses?
MORGAN: It's about women.
SHEEN: Oh, boy.
MORGAN: I want to find out whether there's still salt in your saddle --
SHEEN: OK. MORGAN: -- with the goddesses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: Ah, I'm hit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clean through the heart.
M. SHEEN: Have you got any whiskey?
Bite down on this.
All right, this won't hurt. Oh, God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Charlie Sheen's new movie, "A Glimpse Inside the Mind of Charles Swann III." That looks like --
SHEEN: A lot of fun.
MORGAN: A surreal load of fun.
SHEEN: Thank you. Thank you.
MORGAN: You enjoyed making it?
SHEEN: I did. Roman Cople (ph) was a genius. He's a genius. He wrote it I think with me in mind about his own experiences, about a love that he lost and then still couldn't figure it out.
MORGAN: Where are you at the moment with women?
SHEEN: With a girlfriend.
MORGAN: A goddess?
SHEEN: No, just a girlfriend.
MORGAN: What happened to the goddesses?
SHEEN: They went their separate ways. Very -- there was not a lot of drama. Everybody was -- you know, it was mutually agreed upon.
MORGAN: Every man's dream or does it get complicated?
SHEEN: It gets complicated, yes, yes. I still believe in that motto. I think you can live with two women, but I don't -- they got to be the right women. And I think they have to know each other before they know you. I don't think you can just pick randomly and put them together and expect them to be perfect, because it doesn't work. It doesn't work, Piers.
MORGAN: Tell me about the lady in your life. SHEEN: Jones, we call her. She's terrific. She -- I was a fan before I met her. She was on the Internet. Just girl-girl.
MORGAN: She's an adult entertainer?
MORGAN: You have a thing for those.
SHEEN: I do. You can do a lot of research before you meet them. No joke, right. But I'm a bigger fan since. She's fabulous. You know, she's -- I don't want to say a female version of me. But no, we have very similar traits and qualities. She's a lot younger, and she's hotter than the word itself. And she's fun as hell. She's fun as hell.
MORGAN: You don't have any problem with what she does.
SHEEN: She doesn't do it anymore.
MORGAN: Given it up?
SHEEN: Yes, a couple years. And that stuff is all out there, but it's the reason we met. So how can I criticize it. You know what I'm saying? I'm a hypocrite if I do, right?
MORGAN: Are you in love with her?
SHEEN: Yes, I am. Actually, yes. There's a part of me that is, absolutely. I think that there's different types of love.
MORGAN: You have been married three times.
SHEEN: That didn't work.
MORGAN: Were you properly in love each time?
SHEEN: I thought I was. And I might have been in certain moments, you know. I thing you can be in love with somebody and it can be in a fleeting moment but still very real.
MORGAN: You're also a grandfather.
SHEEN: I am. Well, not just yet.
MORGAN: About to be.
SHEEN: Yes, about eight months away. Yes.
MORGAN: How do you feel about that?
MORGAN: I'm excited, because Sandra's terrific. Her husband Casey is fabulous. I have a son-in-law. It's like weird.
MORGAN: This is by the daughter of your childhood sweetheart, who you never actually married. SHEEN: Never married, no.
MORGAN: She's now in her late 20s, your daughter, right?
SHEEN: She's 28. Her birthday was 12-12-12, just this past year, which is kind of trippy.
MORGAN: And that moment where she says dad, you're going to be a grandfather, that's got to be a wake-up call.
SHEEN: Yes, yes. As Steve Martin said at the Oscars years ago, it gives me kaka pants. Yes. Yes. I knew it was going to happen eventually, especially with her. You know, obviously with her. But I didn't know it would be this soon, and it's none of my business when she chose to do that, you know. So I just have to be along for the ride and celebrating and just cheering her along and giving her whatever she needs.
MORGAN: And how are your kids, your twin boys?
SHEEN: They're pretty good. Trying to work some stuff out with the mom, but I put everybody in my neighborhood, which is my ultimate master plan, with Denise and the girls in one house, Brooke and the boys in another. We're all behind the same gate.
MORGAN: Denise quite often looks after the boys when Brooke's away. It's reasonably civilized.
SHEEN: It's pretty civilized, yeah. Just keeping everybody paid and they'll be happy.
MORGAN: Do you see much of the boys?
SHEEN: Sorry. Not as much as I planned to or I would like to. But what is really cool is when they come to set. We have a kid station there. You know, my boss is very friendly and smoke free most of the time, and --
MORGAN: How many kids?
SHEEN: I have five.
MORGAN: Five kids. Some with Brooke, some with Denise. Are they all friends with each other, the kids?
SHEEN: They're becoming friends, absolutely. Yeah.
MORGAN: When you see the influence and impact your father had on you, do you understand more of the power of you as a father to be a role model to you kids?
SHEEN: To a degree, yeah.
MORGAN: Are you ready for that?
SHEEN: I believe that I am, yes. And I think that I have amassed a pretty interesting variety of experiences and knowledge to offer them, things to do and things not to do. You know?
MORGAN: What would be the number one bit of advice you give one of your sons, perhaps?
SHEEN: Lead with the truth. Lead with the truth. It's what I have always done. It's what my dad told me. It's the reason that a gentleman and a pro like yourself would ask me back after the interview that we had, because I lead with the truth, you know. You don't have to remember the truth. The truth is unchanging.
MORGAN: That is very true.
SHEEN: Yes, it's unchanging.
MORGAN: Let's take a final break. I want to talk to you about movies and Oscars. You're a movie guy at heart. That's what Charlie Sheen is to me.
SHEEN: You got it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SETH MACFARLANE, ACTOR: We all know there's a good chance Charlie will be dead soon, so I wrote an obituary. Charlie Sheen, who became a tabloid fixture due to his problems with drugs and alcohol, was found dead in his apartment -- actually, you know what? I kind of actually just copied Amy Winehouse's obituary.
I only had to change three things, though, the sex of the deceased, the location of the body, and the part that says a talent that will be missed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: Wow. Wow.
SHEEN: You go, Seth.
MORGAN: On the basis of that performance, Seth MacFarlane's now hosting the Oscars.
SHEEN: Good for him.
MORGAN: How would you go on if he brought that particular style to the Oscars.
SHEEN: He might want to tone it down just a little bit. He's a genius, though. He's fabulous.
MORGAN: He's one of my favorite interviews. I think he will be terrific at the Oscars.
SHEEN: I do, too. Yes, good for him. He was great at the roast, wasn't he?
MORGAN: He was superb. The roast is an extraordinary American phenomenon, but I rather like it. It's compellingly dreadful.
SHEEN: We basically did it to get a cable rating. I can say that now, right, Mark? Yes. We didn't have a cable rating and we were going to go out and shop the show. So we get a good cable rating and do something exciting and fun. Let's do a roast.
I lied to them and I said, yes, I've seen them all. They're great. Let's do something a little bit different. They said, like what? I said, let me figure it out later. The only one I'd never seen was my own. The first one I saw was my own. I thought it was pretty good, right?
MORGAN: It was fantastic.
SHEEN: People said how did you stand --
MORGAN: Did any of it hurt you?
SHEEN: No. I liked everybody that was there. And it was all really smart humor. And how do you take that personally? You can't. You can't take it personally.
MORGAN: It's been a big year for movies. Have you seen many movies?
SHEEN: Not too many.
MORGAN: Do you ever actually go and buy a ticket and go to a movie theater?
SHEEN: When I was in Atlanta, I went and saw "Safe House" a few months ago. Was that a year ago? I love going to the movies. Now you can like order a steak and a beer. It's amazing.
MORGAN: How about people who go into a movie theater and find you next to them. How do they react?
SHEEN: They usually wait until the film is over to talk to me, which is polite. I guess they figure I'm a fan like everybody else, you know.
MORGAN: Are you, at your heart, a movie star, do you think?
SHEEN: I'm a baseball player in my heart. Seriously, I'm a baseball -- in my fantasy, I'm a baseball star.
MORGAN: Is that what you really --
SHEEN: Hell yeah. The Cincinnati Reds.
MORGAN: That would have been the dream for you?
SHEEN: Yeah. But I'm not -- but I wouldn't still be playing right now unless I was Jamie Moyer, played to like 48 or 49. I don't know that I had the skills to play professionally. I probably would have been riding a bus in Duluth until I was 35. But I would trade an Oscar right now for one official at-bat in the show. No spring training, but an actual official major league at bat. I would trade an Oscar for that.
MORGAN: Would you really?
SHEEN: Absolutely, at the drop of a hat. Because De Niro can't pick up the baseball Encyclopedia and say look, one for one. He can go look, here's five of these, but he can't have that one at bat.
MORGAN: Take a final break, Charlie. We'll be right back.
MORGAN: Back with a final thought or two from Charlie Sheen. I was saying in the break now -- I was asking you who you thought the best living actor was, and you said Sean Penn.
SHEEN: Sean Penn, hands down, period at the end.
MORGAN: Why is he so good?
SHEEN: Because he did Fast Times and "Dead Men Walking." He did "Mystic River" and "Milk." He does things that you always feel like you're spying on him, that you're invading his private space. He's that good.
MORGAN: I love his passionate intensity.
SHEEN: It's amazing.
MORGAN: He went and lived in basically a tent in Haiti for eight or nine months. It takes real commitment.
SHEEN: He's 100 percent dude.
MORGAN: Who is the best actress?
SHEEN: Wow. Wow. You'd have to almost -- you'd have to go with Streep I think, you know.
MORGAN: Just for sheer amount of amazing --
SHEEN: Just Oscar count, yeah.
MORGAN: Pretty phenomenal.
SHEEN: It's crazy.
MORGAN: It's almost like if she isn't nominated now --
SHEEN: Something is wrong.
MORGAN: Will you be watching the Oscars? SHEEN: I will, indeed. Yes.
MORGAN: I guess there's going to be a lot of good movies this year.
SHEEN: I was a part of the fourth hour. It was good.
MORGAN: Have you seen "Lincoln."
SHEEN: I have not, but I'm told I should.
MORGAN: You should see it. He's great.
SHEEN: He's number two, by the way.
MORGAN: Daniel Day-Lewis?.
SHEEN: Yes, he's number two.
MORGAN: Tommy Lee Jones is brilliant.
SHEEN: Yes, well. And hell of a nice guy, I hear.
MORGAN: Are you still winning, Charlie?
SHEEN: Today I am with you. Absolutely.
MORGAN: It's been brilliant to see you again.
SHEEN: Likewise. Thank you so much.
MORGAN: Come back soon.
SHEEN: You're an absolute pro. Thank you.
MORGAN: Great to see you.
SHEEN: I appreciate it.
MORGAN: Charlie Sheen. That's all for us tonight. Anderson Cooper starts now.