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Arias: Sex & The Exes
Aired January 30, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the Jodi Arias trial -- murder, sex, and exes. Who was sleeping with whom? And when?
And the moment that made Jodi weep and Travis`s sister flee.
Plus, I`ll explain why Jodi might appear to be imitating her attorney.
And our exclusive with the man who actually went on dates with Jodi. Forget the courtroom. We have his cross-examination right here.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Go ahead.
ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI: OK. Yes. Well, my point is this --
PINSKY: And later, match made in hell. This woman almost killed by an online date.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome to the show. We`ve got a lot of ground to cover this evening. My co-host this week, relationship expert Laura Baron. Got a great panel again.
Attorney Mark Eiglarsh at speaktomark.com.
Janine Driver, body language expert and author of "You Can`t Lie to Me." By the way, Janine, I`ve been reading that book. I love it.
But first up, sex -- it`s true. Sex has been the main event for the past two days in the Arias courtroom. Watch this. And a reminder, there`s some graphic language in here that I found stunning. But here it goes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She even enjoyed I believe on two occasions anal sex, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly once.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly once. Could it have been two?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t recall.
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Did your sex life with Jodi Arias involve wearing little boy`s underwear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did it involve putting her in schoolgirl outfits and pigtails? Did it involve calling her a whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A slut?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you remember telling him that you had previously told him to not grab your butt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And especially not in public?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that he persisted in doing it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the time that he was kissing -- and again, not to get too much into this. He achieved an erection, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not massage his erection, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did not massage his own erection, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a biological response to your lips, wasn`t it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: What goes on in the courtroom these days? Laura, I thought I was -- I`d heard enough last night. Then it gets more explicit and weird today.
What would you think if you were sitting in that jury box?
LAURA BARON, CO-HOST: I would think that I stepped into a porn. I mean, this is unbelievable. The thing that makes me crazy about Jodi is that right before she kills him, that she had all of this sexual play, she has the picture of her hair in pigtails, that we know that they were having this raucous sexual play.
The question I`ve got for you, Drew, is do you think that manipulation is something that gave her the courage to kill this guy? Did she turn into a different character?
PINSKY: Well, that`s what we`re going to kind of explore later on, is whether or not -- Janine particularly feels that she is so empty inside that she could have flipped from one thing to another. We`re going to look at the evidence for that.
We were also, after the commercial break, going to bring Abe back. And he had dated Jodi Arias at one time. And you heard what happened last time. We`ll show you in a little while what happened last night with him.
We`re going to get into something very interesting with him, and I suggest you stick around for that.
But before that, joining us from "In Session", correspondent Beth Karas.
Beth, last night you sort of rocked me with some of the language that was going on in the courtroom. Today, more of it. Why? And then what else happened in court?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: Well, the sex talk is pretty necessary because the defense is saying that Jodi Arias was nothing but the dirty little secret, the booty call for Travis Alexander, certainly in those months before she moved away and before she killed him.
But the state is saying no way, this woman was obsessed with him, it was a fatal attraction, she was a willing participant, and he wasn`t abusing her and taking advantage of her sexually.
Now, jurors asked some really interesting questions of this former girlfriend whose relationship was quite the contrary. She did not have a sexual relationship with him despite kissing. I mean, that was as far as it went.
And the juror said to the witness, well, was he ever abusive to you? No. Did you ever call Jodi Arias a stalker? Yes.
Questions were quite revealing from the jury. We get an idea where they`re headed.
Also, Drew, there was a moment when court came to a screeching halt. There were gasps and tears and jurors were -- all the jurors turned and looked at Travis Alexander`s family because the prosecutor, in questioning this former girlfriend, threw up an autopsy photo of Travis Alexander, and his family didn`t know it was coming. No one did.
And it was a -- one of the most graphic photos of -- his head, his neck, and it showed the gaping wound of his neck. And what he was doing was contrasting how Travis Alexander treated her, cheating on her with Jodi Arias, to how Jodi Arias treated him, slitting his throat all the way back to his spine.
PINSKY: We`re looking at footage, Beth, of the family running out of the room there. I actually had been wanting to show my viewers that footage. I think it speaks volumes about what happened that night. I understand the network is not interested in subjecting people to that that may not want to be. I totally am supportive of that. So we`re not going to show it.
But, boy, you have a visceral reaction when you -- Beth, I`m sure you`ve had it, having seen that footage. I`ve seen it myself. That you get a sense of the words like rage and fury are not sufficient to express how somebody could ever -- it`s barbaric -- do that kind of thing to another person. Do you agree?
I think we`re losing Beth.
KARAS: Absolutely, I agree, yes. I know we`re having a little audio issue --
PINSKY: Beth, I`m going to interrupt you because -- Beth, I`m sorry. You`re having technical problems out there. You sound like you`re in the back of a room. Your mike isn`t working or something. But I am going to go out to real quick --
BARON: Hey, Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, Janine? Is that Laura?
BARON: Drew, 11 men -- there`s 11 men on this jury. Do you think that that`s why they`re really concentrating on the stalker part of it with her? Do you think it`s men thinking -- you know, they all say that they don`t want the crazy one but we`ve had plenty of conversations where men will go for someone that`s even just a little bit crazy? Do you think they`re thinking for themselves, too?
PINSKY: No. I really don`t.
Janine, let me go to you. Janine, in terms of the profiling of this woman, do you think the way they`re trying to paint this picture has something to do with the makeup of the jury?
JANINE DRIVER, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: I don`t know. I think it`s going to be interesting. Nancy grace earlier -- hi. Can you hear me, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Got you now. We got you.
DRIVER: Dr. Drew?
Nancy Grace on her show earlier tonight was talking about how she saw in the courtroom today that the jurors came back, only one man actually looked towards Jodi Arias. All the other men looked at one of the attorneys that were standing up. None of the women looked in her direction.
And I think at the end of the day, you know, do you really ever know where they`re looking, what their verdict is going to be? You know, is she going to get the death penalty? I don`t know.
But I don`t think it looks so good for Jodi Arias today based on the body language of the jury coming in with what Nancy said.
PINSKY: I think that`s absolutely right. It`s really interesting that the defense seems to be flailing. And every time they throw something up there, Laura, it seems like it goes against them.
BARON: Yes. Yes. Well, you`ve got a woman that has gone crazy, slicing a dude for 28 times. I don`t know how they could possibly defend her.
And as a woman, I find it so insulting, again, that they are just coming up with this abuse thing when this chick was in pigtails before she sliced this man to death. Look at that poor family. It is so upsetting.
PINSKY: Yes. I know. And a reminder that it`s a victimizing the victim once again.
PINSKY: Mark, I`ve not gone to you yet. But you are going to take center stage in just a second because we hand you yesterday cross-examining some of our guests on the show last night, and tonight, Mark and Abe Abdelhadi will go at it again.
Are you ready, Mark?
EIGLARSH: Yes, I`m not going to go at it. I just want to extract information that supports his theory that he should have been called by the prosecutors in this case. That`s all.
PINSKY: All right. Well, I put the state of Florida seal behind you to give you the gravitas --
EIGLARSH: Yes, thanks. Thank you, my friend.
PINSKY: -- of a courtroom. We`ll see what we put behind Abe yet. So --
EIGLARSH: How about a big -- how about a big retainer fee? You know, can you arrange that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As long as it`s not --
PINSKY: Later, a match made in hell. One woman`s online dating horror story.
And even later in the show, I`m going to talk to you about something called a Vaportini. You won`t believe that.
Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: Abe opined that she was guilty, and he said it was based upon things that she had said to him in telephone calls. What else would you have testified to had that been brought out?
ABDELHADI: My point is this. So two days later when she told me she was getting back together with her boyfriend, the only guy I knew of was the gentleman she lived with in Palm Springs for four years. I didn`t even know she dated Travis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And that was from last night`s show. I`m back with my co- host this week, Laura Baron.
Also back tonight, special guest Abe Abdelhadi, who had dated Jodi Arias briefly and made it out with his life.
And at Mark Eiglarsh`s request, he`s here to continue last night`s cross-examination.
Now, you`ll notice those of you, if you guys can see me in the monitor, I`m between you two hotheads.
So, Counselor, before you begin questioning, there are several points that first I wanted to give Abe a chance to make. And some things you didn`t let him say last night he`d like to say tonight before you start your questioning.
Go ahead, Abe.
ABDELHADI: Well, first, before the commercial there was a comment made that I had an issue with wasn`t -- with what wasn`t asked by the prosecution. That was not my issue. My issue was after testifying by phone on Monday that the defense needed 24 hours to prepare questions for me.
Now, I thought that was interesting because the next day I was expecting significant questions if you`re looking for prosecutorial misconduct, if that`s the term. I`m a layman in these matter. So I expect your patience, Mark.
But the challenge I had with the defense attorney was he didn`t ask anything about my involvement in the situation, what I had to say, my story. It was all about what was said when or not said when by the prosecution, which I thought was ridiculous.
And had he asked me questions about what I knew and when I knew it, I thought that would have been a more salient defense. But he failed.
And so, that was my point last night and then we had our little exchange.
PINSKY: Abe --
ABDELHADI: You`re a good sport.
PINSKY: Can I interrupt? You were also concerned about messing up the prosecution`s case in some way by triggering a mistrial. Is that accurate?
ABDELHADI: Well, no. I just didn`t want to do anything that was so hotheaded that was going to get me a contempt of court or something and --
PINSKY: I see, I see.
ABDELHADI: -- all of a sudden now the defense can jump all over that --
PINSKY: Got it. This judge that stands between you two today, no such contempt. We don`t have contempt in this court.
So go at it, Mark. Let`s hear.
EIGHLARSH: OK. Abe, first of all, thanks for agreeing to do this. I want to cover whatever your testimony would be if the prosecution were to call you like you suggested they should have.
You met her in 2006 --
ABDELHADI: No, I did not -- stop. Wait, Mark. Mark? Stop, stop, stop. I did not suggest the prosecution should call me. Let`s get that clear.
EIGLARSH: Well, you certainly suggested --
ABDELHADI: What I said was --
EIGLARSH: You did say that you had facts that should have been elicited about your relationship that could have shed light on the prosecution`s case, did you not?
ABDELHADI: Which was -- which was incumbent on the defense if he was going to take 24 hours to question me.
EIGLARSH: Let`s get to your story, Abe. Here we go.
ABDELHADI: So, you`re going to hear my --
EIGLARSH: So when you first started talking with --
ABDELHADI: OK. Well --
EIGLARSH: You first started talking with Jodi shortly after you met her in September 2006. This was on the telephone. Is there anything that occurred during the telephonic communication between you two that you think should have come to light in this trial?
ABDELHADI: Not at that time, no.
EIGLARSH: OK. So then you started dating --
ABDELHADI: Between meeting her in September 2000 (ph) -- we got chummy and had a lunch and then had a dinner. Yes.
EIGLARSH: OK. Other than the Barnes & Noble, which was the last date that you went on, I want to talk about the initial dates. You went on a couple of dates apparently.
Was there anything that occurred during those dates that you think the prosecution should have elicited in front of this jury?
ABDELHADI: Hanging out with other people at events. I wouldn`t call those dates. And there was nothing unusual at that time, no. The lunch was nice. Dinner, that`s when things got a little interesting.
EIGLARSH: OK. So, Barnes & Noble was your final date, correct?
ABDELHADI: We had dinner and then we went to Barnes & Noble, yes.
EIGLARSH: And there you were in the philosophy section. And apparently, she lies to you and claims that she was dabbling in Mormonism when in reality she had been baptized November 2006, even before you guys had started dating.
So you said she lied to you. Is that something that you think the prosecutors or the defense should have brought out?
ABDELHADI: Well, definitely the defense could have chased me down on that if he was into doing his job and not chasing down some prosecutorial misconduct nonsense, number one.
ABDELHADI: Number two, I had no idea she was lying to me at the time except for a couple days later when I asked her -- when she told me she wasn`t going to see me anymore, that was fine. She told me she was dating Travis. I mentioned that he was Mormon. She said, yes.
I said, isn`t that the person that led you to Mormonism? And she said, well, he showed it to me but I made my own decision.
PINSKY: Hey, Mark --
ABDELHADI: Well, now a decision`s not dabbling, isn`t it? It`s amazing what two days does.
PINSKY: Mark --
EIGLARSH: Yes, Judge Drew.
PINSKY: Abe told me he had a very strong sort of intuition that she was guilty. Is there any way the prosecution could have elicited that in court without, as you say, opining?
EIGLARSH: One hundred percent, absolutely not. Any thoughts that he had whatsoever about her guilt would have caused a mistrial because it`s for the jury to decide the ultimate question of fact in this case as to whether she was. What he thinks is absolutely irrelevant and not legally 50 admissible. OK?
PINSKY: All right.
We have to take a quick break --
ABDELHADI: So the defense in other words -- wait, so the defense, in other words, by not eliciting my, quote, "opinion" over an 18-month period was, quote-unquote, "doing their job" by chasing down prosecutorial misconduct?
EIGLARSH: OK. Are we going to continue on, Drew?
ABDELHADI: Is that his job?
EIGLARSH: So let`s talk about --
PINSKY: I will let you answer that question, Mark.
ABDELHADI: I`m asking an honest question. I`m not going to risk a $1,500 fine. I`m going to ask an honest question.
PINSKY: Abe, I get you. And Mark`s going to give you an honest answer after we come back.
After we finish this session between these two, we`re going to go on to another topic. Millions of you people meet online through online dating sites without a problem. How do you know if a date itself might turn deadly? This is a situation we`re looking at here where a woman had a male stalker very much like Jodi Arias. It went bad. We`ll talk about it later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sometimes you felt that he wanted you just for your body?
LISA DAIDONE, VICTIM`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: I did say that in the e-mail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You felt that it was a way for him to let out some sexual tension? Did that make you feel used and dirty? Did you tell him you thought it was vulgar and unattractive when a man talks about sex as much as he did?
DIADONE: I did say that.
I came to the understanding that he was cheating on me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know who he was cheating with?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is that?
DIADONE: Jodi Arias.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Travis Alexander`s ex-girlfriend testifying on behalf of the defense.
I`m back with my co-host Laura Baron, and we`re talking about the relationships and the sexual conversations that went on in court today. The Jodi Arias case.
All right. Mark, I`m going to give you now a chance to respond to Abe`s comment at the end of the last segment.
EIGLARSH: Well, let`s have him repeat it. What was the question?
ABDELHADI: My question basically is -- well, your phrase earlier when you said that the prosecution would make a mistake. I`m not expecting -- again, I`m not expecting the prosecution to do anything but present the state`s case.
My question in this situation was the defense attorney had all night after I testified on Monday to come up with something credible to ask me. And on Tuesday, all he can think of to ask me was prosecutorial, did he do this, did he do that, when did he call you last?
And I was able to actually bring up the fact that his investigator never called me back after I offered a three-way call with the prosecutor once I talked to my own attorney. So, isn`t it the defense`s job if you`re going to do prosecutorial misconduct to let`s dismantle the witness?
He didn`t do that. He went after all these ticky tack things he`s been doing since day one of this trial.
EIGLARSH: That`s the strategy they chose to take. If they asked you anything more, then a lot of the stuff we`re discussing right now may then come into evidence. As we`ve seen, you may then hurt their case just like many other witnesses they`ve called had.
So, yes, they`re probably afraid of some of the things you have to say, like the following. When you were on a date with her at the Barnes & Noble and you began to make out in the parking lot and you checked to see whether she was wearing a thong, apparently you said to her, this isn`t magic underwear, which apparently is a Mormon reference and then she responded, "No, but there`s magic in them."
Is that something you that think that either side should have elicited?
ABDELHADI: Well, if I was going to testify for the prosecution, it`s up to them. Mr. Martinez is a credible attorney. He obviously knows what he`s doing. And obviously, it would bring up the fact that she is sexually aware.
This isn`t the Quaker lady. You know, forget the Mother Theresa routine with the glasses and the blouse. She was a sexy woman. She was aggressive. She was assertive. She had confidence about her body.
BARON: Hey, Abe -- Abe, you told us yesterday -- Abe, you told us yesterday that you went after her because she was younger and she was hot. And now that you see that she slashed a guy 28 times, what is this doing to your dating life? Are you watching how women are cutting steaks now?
ABDELHADI: Maybe a little bit. Sure. You know, fool me once, shame on me. You know, fool me twice. I get a knife in the back. So I`ve got to be careful, don`t I?
BARON: Yes. Has it gotten you pretty paranoid?
EIGLARSH: Abe, is there anything else --
ABDELHADI: Not paranoid. Just self-aware.
EIGLARSH: Abe, is there anything else that you have to offer that you didn`t share with us yet that you think is relevant for either the defense or --
ABDELHADI: Well, over -- yes.
ABDELHADI: I mean, here`s the thing. And this is probably why the defense didn`t ask me a lot of questions. Over the subsequent 18 months after we quit going out, we talked a lot on the phone, maybe six weeks, a couple of months.
And there were little things she would say or drop in that at the time I didn`t think anything of. But apparently in hindsight being 20-20, now it`s an issue, isn`t it? You know, things like, "I don`t know what I`ll do if I can`t have them."
EIGLARSH: Like what?
ABDELHADI: "He`d be an excellent father for my children. I want to marry him" -- things that I`m saying to you right now.
EIGLARSH: OK, go ahead.
ABDELHADI: These are the things that he said to me, OK?
EIGLARSH: "I don`t know what I would do without him." OK.
ABDELHADI: I don`t know what I`d do without him. He`d be --
EIGLARSH: You would have shared that with the prosecutor --
ABDELHADI: Go ahead.
EIGLARSH: I know you guys spoke on the phone a couple times and you had a face-to-face meeting in 2011 in preparation for trial. He chose not to call you to the stand. Why do you think he chose not to call you?
ABDELHADI: And unlike some people I don`t take it personally because the prosecutor is paid to do his job. And unlike some people I don`t have the desire to, you know, get a book out of this or something like that.
This isn`t -- this isn`t fun and games. I mean, a lot of these shows, they can be what they are. Thank God I respect Drew. But to be honest with you, this isn`t fun and games.
A man is murdered, brutally. And instead of asking material questions to the situation, we are going on and on about when the detective thought he was shot in the head or wasn`t. Did she drive 15 hours? Did she have a knife and stick it in his back multiple times? Did she almost cut his head off?
Did she take pictures of it? Did she shoot him in the face afterwards? These are questions.
EIGLARSH: And the prosecutor --
ABDELHADI: They`re bringing up all this stuff --
EIGLARSH: The question to you is, Abe, what is your motivation? You`ve been on twice now. You`ve been on other shows. You`re obviously very passionate about this.
Can you tell the viewers what your interest --
ABDELHADI: Actually, actually, correction. Actually -- actually, correction. I`ve been on this show.
PINSKY: Yes. Abe is very kind --
EIGLARSH: I`m glad you did. But what is your motivation?
PINSKY: I`m going to defend him on this one because I do have to go to break. Motivation is he was kind enough to come on. We`ve asked him to come back to undergo your examination, Mark, which ends right here. His motivation was that he was being very kind to us.
Abe, thank you very much for coming on --
BARON: Thanks, Abe.
EIGLARSH: Thanks, Abe. Be well.
PINSKY: I do appreciate what you`re --
ABDELHADI: Thank you, Mark. Thank you.
PINSKY: This is serious, serious business. A man was brutally slaughtered in this case. And we`re trying to get into it.
Next up, I`m bringing Janine in. We`re going to talk about the Jodi Arias mirror effect. We`re going to show some pictures where she moves and dresses and has an unbelievable mirroring behavior of her attorney.
And later, something called the Vaportini.
PINSKY: I`m back this week with my co-host, Laura Baron. Welcome back to the program.
Now, as I said at the break, we`re going to go into this mirror effect thing that I`ve been observing where Jodi Arias appears to be -- I`m not sure mimicking is the right word. She literally, and I think unconsciously, adopts the motor movements, the look, the hair, the affect of expressions on her face.
Janine Driver, I`m hoping you`re seeing the video we`re looking at right now where there is precise -- we`ve got lots of it. I hope there`ll be more airing during the segment -- where literally when the attorney moves her -- now, Janine, here`s what I want to ask you. Humans normally or often will mirror one another.
That`s sort of a sign of familiarity and comfort, but the degree to what she`s doing this somehow spooks me. Am I right here?
JANINE DRIVER, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: You are right. First of all, we do have mirror neurons in the frontal cortex -- you know, the frontal lobes of our brain. We know this from two decades ago. Researchers discovered this over in Italy that when a monkey would do something, another monkey watching them would have the same little firings going off in their brain.
So, it`s mirror neurons. That`s why when someone yawns, we yawn, right? I mean, wouldn`t you agree, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Yes. No. That`s right.
DRIVER: It`s when someone yawns, we yawn. So, that`s that mirror neuron. This naturally happens, but look at the severity, you know, when she moves her hands very slow, methodical, we see the same thing with the lawyer. Now, we know from emotional intelligence, Dr. Drew, that when there`s a position of power, we`re not in a social circle, but it`s a position of power whether it`s a parent to a child, a boss, a supervisor to an employee or a lawyer to their person they`re defending, we know the person of power will tend to set the lead in the emotional intelligence category.
So with mannerisms, with the modalities of how they`re behaving, and so, for me it makes sense. I think it`s creative. You know, we know that Jodi Arias even has her seat a little bit lower than her attorney to come across as this mild, meek little girl. But it is bizarre. I mean, today, we saw them both in the matching white outfits.
People like people like themselves, Dr. Drew. I think it`s creative to give them a little bit of an edge to say, listen, she`s just like a lawyer. I mean, what are your thoughts on mirror neurons? I know there`s some controversy on it.
PINSKY: Well, mirror neurons exist. The question is what is their function? And Laura, I`m going to have you ring in with me on this, which is I agree with what Janine is saying, but for me, sometimes, when people are so empty and are looking for an identity, that they are constantly mirroring other people and they`ve just -- we`ve heard chameleon-like over and over again when she is described.
And this may be an adaptation for somebody that is so empty on the inside that she has nothing to project to the world other than what she sees coming in. So, it`s not merely just the usual sort of familiarity that we would expect from a healthy person. What do you think, Laura?
LAURA BARON, RELATIONSHIP COACH: I think that what`s so interesting about this is, yes, she is clearly mirroring. But I`m looking for those little points of seduction with Jodi Arias, because that is clearly who this woman is, a manipulator and a seductress. And when her ex-boyfriend was on the stand, for example, the other day, she had that look in her eye like, yes? What else are you going to say?
So, I find it incredibly intriguing that her lawyer is allowing this because I actually think it discredits the lawyer a little. Like really? You want a mini me that`s actually a murderer?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Drew, can I throw something out here?
PINSKY: Please, Mark, go.
EIGLARSH: I`ve been in many trials, and clients finally find a lawyer that they trust. They must have spent hours together. She -- Jodi probably looks up to this lawyer very much. And, you know, this is somebody that she wants to emulate. She wants to be liked. She`s never been in court like this before. So, she`s thinking, well, how do I act? What do I do? What do I say?
And the best example she has is this role model that`s taken on her case that cares, apparently, a lot about her. So, she might just be mirroring how she thinks she`s supposed to behave based upon what she sees this role model, this friend, this attorney acting like.
PINSKY: No, I think, Mark --
BARON: -- that if there weren`t so many little inconsistencies in who she is. Is she the schoolgirl? Is she the seductress? Is she the mad killer? Now, she`s the --
EIGLARSH: Well, she`s acting. There`s no question -- listen, we all agree, she`s acting. This is theater. Everyone understands that. Yes, somebody died here and it`s all about justice, but understand, at the end of the day, they will do whatever it takes to win. So, there is theater going on here for sure.
PINSKY: But Janine, the only way I can understand the how she flipped into that murderous rage is if she flips from one thing to the next quite readily. And one of the things she might flip into is whomever she`s in front of.
DRIVER: Well, listen, Dr. Drew, we all have different hats. At the end of the day, I`m a little different with my husband than I am with my seven-year-old son, Angus, than I am with my mother, who`s 65 fighting breast cancer. You know, I put on a little different hat. I`m more empathetic here. I`m a little more, you know, fussy, I might call it, with my husband. But this is the suspicious part with Jodi Arias with this mirroring.
We know in sales, we know in natural mirroring, my mother drinks a cup of iced tea, natural mirroring happens three to four seconds afterwards. We do this with people we`re in rapport with. What`s suspicious here with me watching Jodi Arias with her counsel is that it`s happening right away. The hair gets touched. Bam, two seconds later, less than two seconds.
PINSKY: That`s it.
DRIVER: -- right away.
PINSKY: Janine, that`s it. No, that`s it. That doesn`t happen normally. That`s not normal. That`s why I get the weird feeling when I see it.
BARON: Anybody seeing how seductive this woman is?
EIGLARSH: Can I ask something --
PINSKY: Well, Mark, finish it up and then I`ve got to go. Finish it up.
EIGLARSH: Is this really that abnormal? I guess, I`m equating it to --
EIGLARSH: -- you know, I`m a Jew. I go into a church. I don`t know how to act. I look around. I start imitating people. Should I kneel, should I stand, should I give money? I don`t know what to do. And I think this --
PINSKY: Janine --
EIGLARSH: -- foreign territory to her and she`s trying to act so to fit in.
DRIVER: I`ll tell you why it`s not normal. Even in sales. When we teach people in sales to mirror someone so you increase your bottom line, you know what we say? If he does this behind his ear, you don`t do the same exact thing, instead, you might grab your chin. When we mirror exactly, which is what we`re seeing here, it`s robotic. It`s like an old black-and-white movie from the 1940s.
PINSKY: That`s it.
DRIVER: It`s almost comical, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And I say -- well, I say that`s subconscious because you can`t do that -- no one has that level of concentration, even if it`s theater. Mark, I`ve got to go here. Janine, thank you so much. And by the way, Janine, our thoughts are with your mom. I know she`s struggling with a serious illness.
DRIVER: Thank you.
PINSKY: And our thoughts and prayers are with her. So, we appreciate you coming in tonight through all that.
DRIVER: We`ll take them. Thank you.
PINSKY: Next up, we`re going to talk about a similar situation that happened to a young woman when an online dating episode went terribly wrong. We`re going to talk to this woman who almost died.
And later, people have a new way to, let`s say, enjoy alcohol or whatever they`re doing with it. It`s outrageous and it`s nothing to joke about. I will explain.
PINSKY: I`m back with my co-host this week, Laura Baron. Now, looking for love online like millions of you. Mary Kay Beckman joined Match.com. She met Wade Ridley. He ended up stalking and then savagely stabbing and stomping on her. She was left for dead. Now, I`m going to be showing you some graphic pictures of her injuries and when she was recovering in the hospital. So, this is a warning to you.
Mary Kay joins us. She is suing Match.com for $10 million. Her attorney, Marc Saggese, is here with her as well. Mary Kay, I`ve seen the pictures of you, which we`re going to show momentarily, of you after these injuries, and I`ve got to say it is a relief seeing you look so well. Literally, having like an emotional reaction because it`s far -- if they should show the pictures please of where she was. And while we look at those, Mary Kay, you tell us what happened.
BARON: Oh, my goodness.
MARY KAY BECKMAN, BEATEN, LEFT FOR DEAD BY ONLINE DATE: Thank you, Dr. Drew. He just -- I knew him for all of about eight days and two months later after meeting him, he broke into my garage, and with intent to kill, stabbed me ten times, the knife broke, and then he continued to stomp on my head until I stopped making the gurgling sounds. And when he left, he thought I was dead.
PINSKY: Now, I`m looking at this picture here. You`re on a breathing machine. So, you`re on a ventilator. You`ve had respiratory rest. You have a ventriculostomy in your head, so that must --
BARON: What`s in her head? What does this mean? How far gone is she?
PINSKY: I`m going to tell you. I`m going to tell you. It means a ventriculostomy. It means she had bleeding in her head. Is that what happened, Mary Kay?
BECKMAN: Yes. Yes. There was such severe brain trauma that they had to go in and do the surgery to release the trauma and the blood.
PINSKY: Do you have a permanent ventriculostomy in, a shunt, or is that out now?
BECKMAN: No, that is out. I did end up having three head surgeries total in 2011. I attracted the MRSA disease, the MRSA infection. And so, they had to go in and remove the infected bone flap. And then in August of 2011, I had to have a replacement flap put in.
PINSKY: OK. Now, tell us again. So, five times you saw him or something in eight days, and when did it go bad? What happened? What red flags did you see and when did this get so crazy?
BECKMAN: The red flags I saw was just a controlling obsessive looking at my phone, wanting to know who was calling me. Just, you know, not agreeing with a friend of mine that was having a fierce conversation with me and just something that I felt like I was not interested in creating a relationship with this person. And I basically said, hey, you know, we just need to take a break, this isn`t working.
And he did not like that. Sent some very harassing, disturbing texts back and forth. And the last time I saw or heard from him was October 7th of 2010.
BARON: And Mary Kay, I just want to say, first of all, you look beautiful. And it`s so nice to see you well. Those --
BECKMAN: Thank you.
BARON: -- points that you made, those points you that made about his texting and being suspicious, we call those electronic leashes, that when you`re in this relationship, these are small ways that he holds that control over you. Would you say after each text message you saw it continue and continue? Was that your first red flag, that first text message? Just for the people at home.
BECKMAN: Yes. You know, saying that I was taking my friends over him and just -- they were just disarming. They weren`t violent. They were just very derogatory. And so, I stopped interacting with him because it was a lose-lose for me to interact with him. So, he would text me a text and I would show it to my friends and cry and then I would just ignore it.
And that barrage of texts went on for three days until he just finally stopped because I wasn`t responding back to him.
PINSKY: And then what, he stalked you and just attacked you in your garage or something?
BECKMAN: Yes. He broke into my garage and waited for over two hours for me to get home that evening and had bought a butcher knife at the store around from my house. And basically, I did not -- he startled me when I went into my courtyard. So, I backed back out into my driveway. And that`s where he then started stabbing me with a total of ten times before the knife broke, and then, again, stomping on my head.
BARON: Had he been at your home before, Mary Kay?
PINSKY: Laura, I have to read a statement from match.com. It says, quote, "We happened -- what happened to Mary Kay Beckman is horrible, but this lawsuit is absurd. The many millions of people who have found love on Match.com and other online dating sites know how fulfilling it is and while that doesn`t make what happened in this case any less awful, this is about a sick, twisted individual with no prior criminal record, not an entire community of men and women looking to meet each other."
Match also says it posts on and offline safety tips in multiple places on the site. What I`m going to do is take a break. I will give the attorney a chance to answer to these things, whether this man had a criminal record, do they have enough stuff online, and we`re going to talk to somebody who can teach you how to prevent this from happening with you. An expert joins us with some advice after this.
PINSKY: We are back with my co-host, relationship expert, Laura Baron. Joining us now, online dating expert, Julie Spira. She is the author of "The Perils of Cyber Dating." Julie, my understanding is you are the expert when it comes to all this. You really have to do your homework when it comes to online dating, right? Tell us what we need to know.
JULIE SPIRA, AUTHOR, "PERILS OF CYBER DATING": Absolutely. Become a cyber sleuth. First of all, I think one of the most important things you can do is make sure that you meet in a public place. Don`t meet at your house. Don`t let anybody know where you live. Don`t bring anybody home late at night. Find out their screen name and tell your friends exactly what their screen name is and what site that you`ve met them on.
And then when you`re on your date, take your cell phone. Text your friend and say hey, I`m doing OK or no, I don`t feel so great, I`m out of here. When you`re doing your homework, search on the internet and do not just a Google search but type in your date`s e-mail address and their phone number. You might be surprised what might pop up.
And then head over to Facebook. See if you have any friends in common on Facebook and see if their photos do match the online dating profile photos. And I think at the end of the day, there`s nothing more powerful than trusting your intuition.
PINSKY: That is very powerful.
SPIRA: If you`re uncomfortable, get up and leave. Get up and leave.
PINSKY: Very powerful.
SPIRA: And by the way, these sites take (ph) dating seriously.
PINSKY: Mary kay, you mentioned that he attacked you in your home. Had he ever been to your home before that?
BECKMAN: Yes, he had.
PINSKY: So that`s a little bit of a -- take a little bit of -- go ahead, Laura.
BARON: Yes. Well, that was one of the things that I wanted to acknowledge, too. I mean, I personally have gone to five Match.com weddings. I ask my clients to go on internet dating sites all of the time just because it`s a good thing to get your juice back on. And one of the things, as our expert has said, is you really need to take fierce culpability and responsibility in how quickly you allow somebody into your life.
I`m not giving you fault, Mary Kay, at all. I`m just saying for our viewers. As they are dating, there is a safe way to engage in this.
PINSKY: Yep. Now, Marc Saggese, I want to give you a chance to respond to Match.com`s comment and whether this is absurd and whether or not the gentleman that attacked your client had a criminal record.
MARC SAGGESE, ATTORNEY FOR MARY KAY BECKMAN: Well, there`s no question that the advertising put out there by Match.com lulls emotionally vulnerable women and men into believing that Match.com is some safe forum with a bunch of superior individuals. Why else are individuals paying $35 a month for membership? When in reality, it`s quite different.
There is no screening done on these individuals, and they say one in five individuals end up married off of Match.com, but what are the percentages of people who are assaulted, robbed, and like my client, an attempt murder on her life? Unfortunately, another woman who was matched after her in Arizona was murdered successfully by the same guy.
So, Match.com had this profile up. And the individual was successful. But the basis of the lawsuit, Dr. Drew, is clear. And that is there should be a disclaimer at the end of Match.com`s commercials, not a couple sitting around having dinner in love, professionals, superior human beings, because that`s not true. It`s inaccurate.
And the disclaimer should be something along the lines of "be careful when you online date." And, I think it`s really drawing a lot of people into non-traditional types of dating.
SAGGESE: And it`s dangerous as opposed to meeting someone down your street, et cetera.
PINSKY: I`m going to give Julie, our expert, a chance to respond to that. Julie, go ahead.
SPIRA: I think that it`s very important that when we talk about trusting your intuition. I know Match.com and the other dating sites do have dating advice and a lot of them even have pop-up windows saying you need to read this before you join our site. And I think they do take dating safely seriously.
My heart goes out to Mary Kay. This is a sad, sad story. And I think you`re a very brave woman to be sharing it with all of us.
SAGGESE: I`d disagree --
SPIRA: You look upset. This must be very difficult to talk about.
SAGGESE: I, as an attorney, have received hundreds of letters substantiating attempted communications with Match, begging Match, and I have the PDFs and the screen snapshots, begging Match to take down profiles of convicted individuals who have successfully assaulted the people communicating with me.
And Match says without a court order, we will do nothing. So, Match is not sensitive. I disagree.
PINSKY: Mary Kay, I`ve run out of time, but any last word from you? Then I must go.
BECKMAN: Just thank you for helping us make an awareness and working on getting a disclaimer for these sites for safety.
PINSKY: Thank you to Marc and Mary Kay as well as Julie. I`ve got to take a quick break. I`ll be right back with something that is extraordinary. I`ll be right back.
PINSKY: OK, Laura. I want to introduce you to something that I know you`re going to just run out and consume. It is called the Vaportini. And it`s not shaken --
BARON: I`m in.
PINSKY: -- it`s not stirred. OK. It`s a device that will allow users to inhale alcohol instead of drinking it. It works like a vaporizer. They`re saying it`s a vaporizer, but it`s in fact a nebulizer. And those of you who have vaporizers, do not attempt to vaporize alcohol. It can actually ignite.
The makers say these drinks absorb directly into the bloodstream, avoiding the digestive track, which is the problem with this thing. Laura, you get me? This is like crack, alcohol crack. What would this be? Crackohol. This is crackohol is what this is.
BARON: I do understand. I guess, I`m a little obsessed about the idea that you wouldn`t drink any calories with this thing, though.
PINSKY: Well, you may not need as much to get as high, which is the other issue with this, is you can overdose very easily. I mean, kids are trying all kinds of new ways to get alcohol in, to get very rapid delivery to the brain, which enhances the intoxication, and people can end up dead. Now, we have asked the manufacturer for a comment, have not yet heard back from them.
There is the Vaportini. It`s a nebulizer. I`m concerned about over - - and we used to use things like this in the animal research and even with insects to get them intoxicated to study their genetics and relationship with alcohol --
PINSKY: I should not have been surprised.
BARON: Drew, but you can`t even get it. I mean, this thing is so popular that it sold out.
PINSKY: You just scared me, Laura. Got to go. Thank you, Laura. thank you to all my guests. Thank you for watching. A minder here, "Nancy Grace" begins, without a Vaportini, right now.