CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

Suicide Blast At U.S. Embassy In Turkey; Biden: New Laws Won't End Massacres; Hawaii Declares War On Paparazzi; "Steven Tyler Act" Proposed In Hawaii

Aired February 1, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, a suicide bomber stages a deadly strike on an American embassy and this time the White House quick to label it a terrorist attack.

Plus a prosecutor gunned down on the way to work. Friends say he believed he was in serious danger. Was it revenge for doing his job?

Guns and politics, did Joe Biden's slip of the tongue just wreck the president's message on guns? Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, American embassy attacked. A suicide bomber struck at a security checkpoint at the American embassy in Turkey today and this time the White House immediately labeled it an act of terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: A suicide bombing on the perimeter of an embassy is by definition an act of terror, it is a terrorist attack. However, we do not know at this point who is responsible or the motivations behind the attack. The attack itself is clearly an act of terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: An act of terror regardless of who is responsible or what their motivations are. More on that in moment, but first, to Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon. Chris, the Turkish government says it does have a bit more sense of who the attacker was. What are they saying?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin, they think it's a man named Ichevich Sham Li. He is a well known member of the so-called "People's Liberation Party." They say he trained in Europe on how to make bombs and has attacked Turkish military and police officials before.

Right now they're doing DNA tests to confirm his I.D. The group itself is a sort of a throwback to the cold war. It's a far left revolutionary group that wants to overthrow Turkey's government and establish some sort of communist state.

BURNETT: Why would they target the U.S. embassy? LAWRENCE: They are anti-capitalist and they're very, very opposed to the U.S. and NATO. Analysts say probably two reasons for this attack. One is to embarrass the Turkish government. Two is to protest the presence of U.S. patriot missiles on Turkish soil.

Right now, 400 American troops are in Turkey and they are moving that patriot missile battery into position on Turkey's border with Syria. Turkey requested that help because of the mortars flying in from Syria and they wanted the American missile to help shoot it down.

BURNETT: And Chris, how was the attacker able to gain access to the embassy compound? With all this talk about embassy security and what happened in Benghazi, how was the attacker able to get there?

LAWRENCE: Basically, he walked up to the embassy wear along suicide vest, but it's a gated compound with blast doors, reinforced windows, and several checkpoints. He never made it past the very first checkpoint.

So when he exploded his vest, it killed one of the local Turkish guards who had been working for the embassy. It also injured two more guards, but they were behind bullet-proof glass, but he never got near the main building.

BURNETT: All right, thanks very much to Chris Lawrence. And OUTFRONT tonight, Brooks versus Brooks. Peter Brookes, former assistant secretary of defense in the Bush administration and Rosa Brooks, former assistant secretary of defense in the Obama administration, pretty perfect, guys.

Rosa, I want to start with you though on this issue of language and what this country calls a terror attack and what it doesn't. Obviously, it appears after Benghazi it was not as clear as it was today.

I wanted to play an exchange that happened between State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland and a reporter. This was about a week after the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the United States government regard what happened in Benghazi as an act of terror?

VICTORIA NULAND, SPOKESWOMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: Again, I'm not going to put labels on this until we have a complete investigation, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't regard it as an act of terrorism?

NULAND: I don't think we know enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right, here Rosa is what Jay Carney said today about the attack in Turkey. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARNEY: A suicide bombing on the perimeter of an embassy is by definition an act of terror, it as terrorist attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: It seems like that's a pretty direct reaction to the controversy about Benghazi.

ROSA BROOKS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think that's absolutely right, Erin. I think no one ever said this administration was not a learning organization and the lesson that they drew from Benghazi is you're never going to make a mistake if you call it an act of terrorism.

Frankly, I don't think it matters what you call it. I think the reason after Benghazi, they were a little bit cautious about calling it terrorism is because we hear terrorism, we immediately think al Qaeda.

The important thing to keep in mind is there are a lot of terrorists out there and not all of them have anything to do with al Qaeda, but that doesn't mean that they can't do us a lot of damage.

BURNETT: And fair point, it doesn't appear to be al Qaeda. Peter, do you agree with that assessment though as to it doesn't really matter what you call it?

PETER BROOKES, SENIOR FELLOW FOR NATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Not at all. I mean, we've talked about Benghazi in the past. I think it was critical that the administration came out like they did today when Benghazi happened.

We talked about all the motivations in the past, why they may have decided to parse words or quibble over definitions, but I think it was very important what they did today and those what I think they should have done regarding Benghazi.

Unfortunately, they just didn't. We still don't have a lot of the answers about those tragic events in Libya.

BURNETT: Rosa, we're just getting some new information and that I think is obviously relevant here. According to our reporting here at CNN, CNN's Fran Townsend saying, the suicide bomber that did this attack in Turkey was known to American and other intelligence agencies.

Again, it seems that we have information and aren't always able to act on it in time. Is this a sign of a failure on the part of the United States?

BROOKS: There's no way to know. I think we've got to wait for the investigation to come out. I think one of the other lessons of Benghazi is it's a really bad idea to start speculating before you've got the facts. You know, it may turn out that we screwed up on this one.

You know, it may turn out that this was preventable. On the other hand, you know, I think the good news here is he didn't get past the first checkpoint. The good news is that we weren't able to stop him altogether, but we kept him from doing more damage than clearly he wanted to do.

BURNETT: Peter, Rosa raises a point, right. This person didn't get past the first ring of security. That is how these installations are supposed to be around the United States, fortress like, for U.S. embassies.

But, you know, I spoke to Jon Huntsman about a week after Benghazi and he said point blank, let me play what he had to say. I think it's obviously more powerful coming from his mouth than mine, here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON HUNTSMAN, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: But our consulates, particularly those that are relatively new, as is the case in Libya, some of them are a little vulnerable. As we continue to shift our relationships throughout the world and provide new outreach to different geographic areas, this is going to have to be a real focus on the part of the State Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Peter, are they focusing on this enough?

BROOKES: Well, that's the big concern. But Jon Huntsman is right that they are walking the knife's edge. You don't want an embassy to look like fortress America, and many of them do today. You have to reach out to the people. People need to access it.

In the same sense, we live in very dangerous times and you've got to maintain your security. Now, when you said this was the first line of the defense, this is actually the last line of defense. Your first line of defense I would say is intelligence.

You need to -- you want to try to get this guy in his hometown when he's strapping on the vest, not at the embassy. Outside the embassy walls, it's really the local police force, local security forces, and you rely on them as well.

So you want those layers of security, those rings of security around your high-value facilities. In this case, it appears despite the tragedy of three people, one person dying, that it did work. They did not get inside the U.S. Embassy in Ankara.

BURNETT: Rosa, I just I want to make I understand. When you said absolutely Jay Carney's response in saying this was a terror attack, when last time, obviously a week later after Benghazi, Victoria Nuland from the State Department refused to say that.

Isn't it fair at this point to say, it seems like look, it was election season, we don't need to have al Qaeda, al Qaeda names out there, al Qaeda attacks out there, so let's not say that was the situation?

BROOKS: I don't think it's fair. I think that these situations are often really confusing, especially at first. You also don't want to get it wrong. You don't want to say it's al Qaeda and that turn out it was some, you know, mentally ill local resident and you look like an idiot.

You know, I actually think erring on the side of caution is not a stupid thing to do. I wanted to echo something Peter said, though, you know, of getting the balance between openness and safety, right.

If we want to make absolutely sure that all of our diplomats are absolutely safe, we would never let them leave Washington, D.C. You know, part of the name of the game here is that you're accepting some risk in order to get some benefits.

BURNETT: I want to ask each of you who is to blame for the situation where we've seen cuts in embassy security because we have. In the sequester which everyone was so hot and bothered about at the end of the year and nobody seems to give a hoot about now because it's going to go ahead.

Embassy security is going to be cut by $129 million. That's a more than 8 percent cut in embassy security. The Republican- controlled House and the Democratically-controlled Senate both proposed funding levels for embassy security below that, which the president had originally requested. That appears to be a bipartisan fail.

BROOKS: Yes, you got it. Right down the street from us I think we've got the institution we can blame for this.

BROOKES: Well, I think it's more than that. I mean, Erin, you have to peel back the layers of the onion here. There are a lot of the things that go into security as I mentioned. Intelligence, there's physical security, there's security at the embassy regarding Marine guards or local hires.

I think it's critically important we don't just focus on numbers. We focus on the effectiveness and quality of that security. And that's something that somebody has to be doing day to day depending on the threats that we face. You could spend a show on this, but I don't want to just say, you know, it's based on some budget numbers. There are a lot of the things at play here other than budget numbers.

BURNETT: All right, thanks very much.

BROOKS: That's fair enough, but money sure helps.

BURNETT: All right, thanks to both, we appreciate it.

Still to come, Vice President Joe Biden pushing his gun control plan hard and then makes a statement that must have the White House at the least head-scratching. Plus, the hostage standoff in Alabama enters its fourth day and we have a first look at the man who is responsible for this.

Then Hillary Clinton, she logged her last day as secretary of state. We take you to the going-away party and we promise you, you have seen nothing like this about Hillary Clinton before.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Our second story, OUTFRONT, Joe Biden, misspeaking or too honest? You know, in the case of Joe Biden, it is probably both, but let me give you the case. This is the man who is leading the president's gun task force. Here's what he said on Capitol Hill last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down to 1,000 a year from what it is now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: OK, even if you agree with what Joe Biden just said, you might find it strange that he'd say his gun control legislation won't stop mass shootings because he's surrounded himself with children who wrote the White House letters about gun violence when he said this two weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We have a moral obligation, a moral obligation to everything in our power to diminish the prospect that something like this could happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So which is it? Will gun control stop mass shootings or not, Joe Biden? OUTFRONT tonight, CNN contributor, John Avlon, Cornell Belcher and Reihan Salam, also writer for the "National Review." Good to see all of you.

Reihan, let me start with you. Joe Biden's comments that he said there at the beginning, saying this isn't going to fundamentally change whether we have a mass shooting or not, sounds very similar to another individual name Wayne Lapierre, who you are all aware is the head of the NRA. Listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NRA: Gun control, you could ban all Dianne Feinsteins, she could do whatever she wants to with magazines, it's not going to make any kid safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: OK, they're buddies now.

REIHAN SALAM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: They're not buddies. Here's the thing. Consider the audience that Joe Biden was talking to. Joe Biden is good at making deals on the Hill because he is talking to these guys as equals. We know what's what. We know what's going on.

I'm not going to promise you the moon, this might make a little bit of a different. Here's the way policy-making works in general. So you have a crisis and then you break glass in case of emergency.

There's some policy agenda that's been collecting dust on the shelf and you break it out. Remember the Iraq war, same thing, 9/11 happens, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but then there are a lot of people wanted to invade Iraq.

And so they thought this is an opportunity, you know, it relates to terrorism, a state-sponsored terror, et cetera --

BURNETT: There are still some people who think you're talking crazy although what you are saying is factually correct.

SALAM: There are people who want gun control and so this was an opportunity, a political opportunity to push gun control agenda that was around for a long time before this.

BURNETT: John, do you think this undercuts Joe Biden's argument? All right, what he's saying had a lot of truth in it, right? But yet you surround yourself with kids two weeks before to say, we're going to prevent mass shootings with my legislation.

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I do think this fits the classic definition of a Washington gaffe, which is, someone tells the truth. What he's saying is this. He's saying, look, we're not going to be able to stop all mass shootings. We're not going to be able to eliminate gun violence from 11,000 homicides a year to 1,000.

That's true. But the question is, do we have a moral obligation to try to reduce that number? And I don't think that's actually inconsistent at all. In artfully said, yes, but that's part of the odd charm of Joe Biden.

BURNETT: It is. In a sense, Cornell right? You got to love him because he speaks the truth, even if it only hurts himself?

CORNELL BELCHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I know. I think John's spot- on. He is telling the truth. The thing about Joe Biden is that you love him despite some of these gaffes. I mean, right now, the guy's got a 59 percent job approval, which isn't half bad.

A lot of people arguing that he -- certainly, if Hillary doesn't jump in, he's probably the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination. And he did himself a world of good, if you go back to the debates after Obama's less than spectacular debate performance.

Here's a guy who really went after Ryan and really, whether you're Democrat or Republican, he did a really good job of pinning Ryan down and made a lot of progressive base really energized. So despite his gaffes, I think a lot of people on the left still love Joe Biden.

SALAM: I have to say. I mean, this seems like a problem to me. So basically, as you said, yes, these children. He's saying this is going to have a big impact, it's a moral imperative we do this to address the problem of mass shootings.

If you really want to address the broader gun violence and crime problem, what are the most effective strategies? Championed by Bill Clinton was more police on the streets. That's not going to affect mass shootings because again --

BURNETT: Where most people die in this country in gun violence, which is inner city --

SALAM: But there's no constituency for that.

AVLON: There's a huge constituency for that. Every mayor in America would like that. But the point is if you're going to have a comprehensive solution, you're going to need to deal with mental health. You can talk about video games.

Joe's going to need to deal with guns and maybe something like universal background check, which seems to have some broad support, has a realistic chance of passing in Congress. Maybe we should be talking about that as well.

BURNETT: Maybe I am just a -- I don't know. Sad, angry person here, but I don't believe that we're going to get something comprehensive that deals with assault weapons and background checks and mental health and everything else. You're going to have to choose, pick your spots.

BELCHER: No, but that's part of the issue I think that's going to unfold in the off-year elections. John again is right. There is broad support here for things like universal background checks.

In fact, you know, I think approval approach 90 percent as a pollster, we never see anything sort of much above 80 percent, 90 percent broad approval like registration and the banning of high capacity clips.

I think if you were a Democrat or going to election, you want to nationalize this issue you want to say, if you think we should do something about gun violence, vote Democrat. If you think we should do nothing about gun violence, vote Republican.

BURNETT: You're totally right, except you just made me have this vision of the most amazing thing that could happen in America. Two people who love gun control. Chris Christie and Joe Biden, who both love to have gaffes and speak the truth, running against each other, and those debates, people would actually want to watch.

SALAM: I just want to throw one thing out about what Cornell just said, OK. So Cornell said that this is about voting for Democrats that might be a good national political issue. Here's the problem.

California has universal background checks. There are a number of states that have these provisions in place. Let's consider what they've actually done to gun violence. Let's consider how cost effective these measures are and how effective they are relative to hiring more police officers.

The truth is that we're going for solutions that aren't necessarily very effective, but they might work as a political issue so that's why we pursue them.

BURNETT: And just to leave at this, you know, six of the 55 Senate Democrats have indicated they have a problem with the assault weapons ban. You may not get that because there are Democrats who support guns too, obviously not as many. All you need is a few.

All right, ahead, an Islamist vigilante group harassing women in short skirts and ordering gays off the street, the surprising part this is in London.

Hawaii declares war on the paparazzi and the man leading the charge is Aerosmith's Steven Tyler. We have an OUTFRONT investigation.

Ted Nugent, one of the NRA's most vocal supporters. We're going to take you to the ranch where this happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Big news out of Hawaii today. The state senators are close to passing an anti-paparazzi act. More than two-thirds of Hawaii's lawmakers have signed on to a bill that will allegedly protect celebrities from paparazzi by allowing the celebs to sue the photographers for snapping the shots.

Now, it doesn't look like these people are being caught by surprise, does it? The lawmakers say the bill will help Hawaii's tourism and film industry because famous people will want to work there if they know they won't be photographed.

Now one thing we found interesting was who got the ball rolling on this whole thing because according to the senator who proposed the act it's inspired by and by the way, named four, Steven Tyler. Yes. Steven Tyler, the lead singer of Aero Smith and former "American Idol" judge.

After spending most of his life in the spotlight has decided that his privacy is just too important now or maybe he got tired of seeing photos like this one. You know, last month, this shot of Steven Tyler was snapped on a beach in Hawaii. For some reason he was not happy with it.

Apparently, he spoke to a senator. The problem is plenty of other celebrities go to Hawaii to the right beaches for the purpose of being photographed. There's nothing like looking caught by surprise when you're sun-kissed, sexy, and athletic. No one's avoiding Hawaii because of the paparazzi. As for Steven Tyler, this was on "American Idol" last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Pepper. I'm going to sing a song called "Tell Your Ma, Tell Your Pa."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Clearly a man who doesn't want to draw attention to himself.

OUTFRONT next, a prosecutor gunned down at a Texas court house and the shooter is still at large.

Plus a 5-year-old boy has been held hostage in an underground bunker for four days and we're going to go to Alabama. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT. We start with stories we care about where we focus on reporting from the front lines.

And we begin with the Dow, topping 14,000 for the first time since 2007. It is less than 200 points away now from its all-time high. And one of the things that helped lift stocks today was the jobs report. The U.S. economy added 157,000 jobs in January. Now, that was just in line with expectations.

Now, the unemployment rate did go up to 7.9 percent but economists we spoke to describe the report as decent and say it shows the economy's continuing to grow at a moderate pace.

Well, the Department of Health and Human Services has proposed new guidelines that allow religious institutions to avoid paying for contraception coverage. The proposed rules would let certain groups like hospitals and schools decline to provide that coverage for religious reasons. Women can get the coverage but the insurance provider has to pay for their contraception separately.

The Catholic Health Association you may recall had asked for changes to the contraception mandate, had gone to the president, and they say they are now studying his new proposal.

The French President Francois Hollande will visit Mali this weekend. French troops have been helping the Malian army oust the Islamist rebels who have taken over the northern part of the country. Still, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta today told the AFP the French now face the daunting task of securing Mali, preventing country from becoming a magnet for extremists, like Afghanistan, is a tough task. Mark Schroeder of Stratford tells us that while Hollande no doubt wants to see this as a victory lap tomorrow, French operations are moving into a more difficult phase now, that is trying to truly defeat militants who may be planning terrorist attacks.

The protesters attack the presidential balance in Cairo, throwing Molotov cocktails at security forces today. They responded with tear gas and water cannons. A local hospital tells us that one person was shot and killed today.

James Gelvin, who wrote the book "The Arab Uprisings", tell us that though they may not be as violent as these ones, the protests will continue because the revolution that started two years ago has never finished. There are still some real questions about the leadership in the country and the economy is still in a tailspin.

It has been 547 days since the United States lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back?

Certainly, that Dow at 14,000 is going to help. But also, there are two good pieces of news to tell you about -- consumer sentiment and construction spending, both better than expected.

And now, our third story OUTFRONT: manhunt in Texas. Investigators tonight combing through leads in a desperate attempt to track down the killer who shot and killed Mark Hasse. A Kaufmann county assistant district attorney, he was gunned down in the courthouse parking lot yesterday morning.

And his longtime friend tells CNN Hasse feared for his life. He had begun carrying a gun in and out of work and going out of a different exit every day because of his fear.

Our Drew Griffin is OUTFRONT with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, there has been so little leads in this investigation, late this afternoon, the sheriff's department actually cancelled a press conference they were going to have right behind because there's basically nothing to report. You can see the anguish on these law officers' faces. This morning when they had to come out and say, after 24 hours or so, there were no significant advances in finding who did this.

Part of their frustration is it happened in broad daylight, 9:00 a.m. in the morning, at a parking lot, right across from a downtown courthouse in Kaufmann, Texas. There were lots and lots of witnesses, but what the witnesses talk, according to police, varies so wildly that they don't even know the race of the perpetrator or the perpetrators. It could be one or two shooters. Those shooters could be wearing masks or possibly hoodies.

One thing they do know is they believe the killer or killers drove away in a gray or silver sedan.

Mark Hasse was a prosecutor. He handled some tough cases. And his friends believe he was targeted.

ERIC SMENNER, FRIEND OF PROSECUTOR MARK HASSE: I think he was assassinated. That's what it looks like to me, because the organization, they obviously knew where he parked. They've obviously been following him. I mean, it's pure speculation on my part. But how do they know to be here?

GRIFFIN: What investigators are now doing is looking through an extensive caseload that Mark Hasse was carrying and also all these past cases, trying to look for clues of a retribution or revenge killing stemming from one of his cases.

But he prosecuted some really bad folks. Members of the Aryan brotherhood, white supremacists, Mexican drug dealers, meth makers, met drug dealers in this county. He was a good prosecutor, which means he prosecuted a lot of bad people. The sheriff says that has got them looking in all directions to see who could have done this.

But right now, the only thing that's really changed in this story is the reward for any tip. It's up to near $70,000 for anybody who can help catch the killer -- Erin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: And thanks to Drew.

And, obviously, just a bizarre and horrible story. As we try to get answers on who was responsible to bring that person to justice, the murder of assistant district attorney Mark Hasse, he underscores the risk prosecutors and judges face in this country for doing their jobs.

Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHIEF CHRIS AULBAUGH, KAUFMAN POLICE DEPT.: I will tell you that we're not ruling out any involvement until we know.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even as investigators in this Texas town hunt for the men suspected of gunning down deputy district attorney Mark Hasse, they are asking, was he targeted because he was a prosecutor?

U.S. Marshal Service says the number of threats or potential threats leveled at judges and others in federal courts has nearly tripled in the past decade, from 500 to almost 1,400.

PAUL CALLAN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think a lot of people have a misconception that prosecutors have security forces protecting them.

FOREMAN: CNN legal analyst and former prosecutor Paul Callan says top court' fishes in big cities may have guards but no one else does.

CALLAN: Unless there's been an explicit threat made against a prosecutor in the course of a trial or investigation, then he'll have a security detail.

FOREMAN: Attacks on prosecutors are rare but not unknown.

THOMAS WALES, ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY: We will never concede the fight to end handgun violence in this state.

FOREMAN: That was assistant U.S. Attorney Thomas Wales, an outspoken opponent of guns. He was killed by a shot through the window of his Seattle home in 2001. No one has ever been charged.

In 2005, in Chicago, U.S. district court judge Joan Lefkow's husband and 89-year-old mother were killed by a man who authorities say was angry that Lefkow had dismissed his lawsuit.

JOAN LEFKOW, U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE: The father who sent every report card to grandma so she also could rejoice on what the children accomplished is no longer there and neither is the grandmother who made each of her 20 grandchildren and great grandchildren believe that that grandchild was her special favorite.

POLICE OFFICER: Everybody off the sidewalk!

FOREMAN: Also that year in Atlanta, Ryan Nichols who was on trial for rape managed to grab a guard's gun and open fire. He killed a judge presiding over his case, a court reporter, and a sheriff's deputy. He later murdered a federal agent before being caught and sentenced to life in prison.

(on camera): This is about much more than personal tragedy. Authorities know such violence and intimidation, left unchecked, can threaten the judicial process, making judges, prosecutors, everyone, feel unsafe when anyone gets mad at the courts.

(voice-over): So, in Texas, while investigators don't know if Mark Hasse's job cost him his life, they have to consider that possibility -- Erin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: Thanks to Tom Foreman.

And now over fourth story OUTFRONT: one of the most outspoken NRA supporters in the United States, a face you may recognize from a different world, rock star Ted Nugent.

He invited our Deb Feyerick to his ranch in Waco, Texas, to talk about guns and do a little shooting. Here's a sneak peek at a story you're going to see only OUTFRONT on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED NUGENT, ROCK STAR: Fire in the hole!

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Ted Nugent, gun control is putting the second bullet in the same hole as the first. NUGENT: Two down.

(MUSIC)

FEYERICK: The famed platinum-selling rocker is passionate about his music, his family, and his firearms. He's invited us to his ranch in Waco, Texas, to talk hunting, self-defense, and the Second Amendment.

(on camera): A lot of people look at the tragedy at Sandy Hook and they say, something's got to be done.

NUGENT: Agreed, something does have to be done.

FEYERICK: And they point to the weapons that were used as the cause.

NUGENT: No. It's not the weapons. The weapons have nothing to do with it. These weapons -- again, these weapons are in every pickup truck in Texas. So we've got to get past the hardware.

FEYERICK (voice-over): Nugent sticks to his guns, literally. For him, the Second Amendment is nonnegotiable.

NUGENT: America minds Ted Nugent and these are all legal guns and I'm going to see that they remain legal, because they're all good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: They're all good.

All right. What was it like to spend six hours with him?

FEYERICK: You know, it was wild. It was wild. He's a very fun guy, a very passionate guy, very committed to God, his wife, his family, music, and guns. And that really comes across.

When he gets to his ranch he becomes a whole different person. He's very connected to the land, and he takes great pride in being able to know that he can hunt and provide food for his family, and they only eat the things he himself kills and he says it's very humane, because its' one quick shot. He'll spend ours and ours up in a tree waiting for that perfect shot.

He says it's those guns that help him defend his family if needs to be. And we're talking about a ranch in Texas that's 300 acres.

BURNETT: So, is there any middle ground? When you try to evaluate whether there's going to be gun control in this country?

FEYERICK: You know, he is a very visible face of the National Rifle Association. He believes in background checks. But he doesn't believe in background checks for gun shows. He says statistically the number of guns used in crimes from gun shows is minimal. And he reels off the numbers. He's got a firm grasp of the facts. He says there are billions of magazines, trillions of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of millions who have guns. And so, he says, look, it's never going to happen. He says, you've got to focus on mental illness, you've got to focus on fixing the criminal justice system, not allowing felons to be paroled --

BURNETT: Not even for the loopholes --

FEYERICK: Not even for the loophole. You know, he doesn't believe there's gun violence. He says, more people drown in buckets of watery.

And I pushed back on that, and I said, yes, Ted, you're not going to get a 20-year-old rounding up first graders and drowning them in buckets of water. It's not the same impact. He said, yes, you're right.

But let's look at, for example, drunk driving. He said, drunk drivers kill more innocent people than do guns every year. You're not going to ban cars.

So he's got a very deep connection with the facts and the facts that he needs to make his argument.

BURNETT: And the analogies he wants to. Well, it is going to be a really fantastic Monday when Deb's full piece on Ted Nugent is going to be OUTFRONT on Monday.

And still to come, a 5-year-old boy has been held hostage in an underground bunker for four days now. We're going to go to Alabama after this.

And a group of Islamist vigilantes harassing women, ordering gays off the street. And this is happening in London.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: We're back with tonight's "Outer Circle", where we reach out to sources around the world.

And we begin in London, where Islamist vigilante groups in Europe are harassing women who wear mini skirts and telling gays and lesbians they have to get off the street. Some Muslim leaders are condemning the gang, saying they're stirring up hatred of Muslims.

Dan Rivers is covering the story in London and I asked him how active these vigilante groups are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Those doing these patrols are reveling in the media spotlight. But, actually, the number of people involved is very, very small. Five have been arrested on suspicion of harassment. These men claim they're tackling drunken behavior where alcohol's already banned from the streets.

But Britain isn't the only country struggling to contain such behavior. In Denmark, an Islamist from another so-called Muslim patrol stands menacingly outside a polling station, vowing to stop Muslims voting.

In Belgium, these extremists want existing Sharia courts which handled family matters to be expanded to cover criminal matters, including un-Islamic behavior in Muslim areas.

And in Laredo, Spain, hard line Salifist groups have angered locals by demanding pet dogs are banned from public transport and Muslim neighborhoods.

Leading British Muslims have warned their communities need to integrate better into why the society to stop extremist.

But there is evidence that the lack of integration is partly because, in many cities across Europe, white people are moving away from ethnically mixed neighborhoods.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. Now, let's check in with Anderson Cooper with a look at what's coming up on "A.C. 360" -- Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, more of the two breaking new stories ahead tonight on "360".

New and exclusive information on what the suicide bomber who attacked a U.S. embassy in Ankara, Turkey, was targeting and why. And this is what Cairo is looking like tonight, demonstrations erupting -- rocks, Molotov cocktails tossed the presidential palace. Ben Wedeman joins us from Cairo.

Also, the man who pretended to be a woman and tricked football star Manti Te'o into believing he was his girlfriend, Ronaiah Tuiasosopo tells his side of the story. Dr. Phil McGraw will talk with the man who broke the story on how it all happened.

Those stories and day four of the hostage crisis in rural Alabama where that 5-year-old boy is being held captive in the below the ground bunker, the "Ridiculist" and a whole lot more at the top of the hour, Erin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. Thanks. See you in a few minutes, Anderson.

And now, our fifth story OUTFRONT: Alabama hostage standoff day four. Tonight, we're getting our first look at the man police say is holding a kindergartner hostage in an underground bunker. Jimmy Lee Dykes is 65 years old. He's a Vietnam veteran, a retired truck driver, moved to the area five years ago. Police say on Tuesday he boarded a school bus near his home, he killed the driver, and took the 5-year-old boy at gunpoint.

Victor Blackwell is in Midland City, Alabama, near the bunker where the boy is being held.

And, Victor, I know you have learned something about the connection between Dykes and the bus driver.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin, that bus driver Charles Poland drove that right down 231 here at Midland City, Alabama, every day. And every day, the route ended right at the road that leads up to Jimmy Lee Dykes' property, the man who's inside that bunker.

Now, we've said as we've learned from neighbors over the past few days that Jimmy Lee Dykes that he is very protective of his property, they say he would walk his property line with a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other and shout at anything or any animal that walked across his property.

Well, each day, we're told by a man who's known the bus driver, Charles Poland, for about 20 years, that he would turn that bus on the road, at the end of the road, just the tip of it, at Jimmy Lee Dykes' property. And that made Dykes angry. And he would shout at the man and the bus.

What we're also told, that there were times when he went in, we're speaking now about the driver Poland, who tried to mend fences, tried to make amends for driving on his property, took him presents. That didn't work.

And this might have been the catalyst for what happened on Tuesday when, again, that bus stopped in front of Jimmy Lee Dykes' property, Erin.

BURNETT: Wow. And, now, obviously, the bunker is on his property. Can you give us a sense of what is going on there, as we're now having day four of this hostage situation?

BLACKWELL: Well, let me tell you the first thing, the most important change that we've noticed here. This is a very cold night. We're told by people who live in this area, this is unseasonably cold, and that it will get, forecasters say, into the 20s tonight. There's been no confirmation of these supplies that are inside this bunker. So, hopefully, they have some heat there.

But we know that local, state, federal negotiators are sight. We have seen them all day, and there's this pipe we have discussed -- a PVC pipe that's 20, 30, 40 feet long that goes from the road into this bunker, and through that, they're communicating with Dykes, and they have told us there's no reason to assume that this boy is in any danger, nor has he been harmed, Erin.

BURNETT: And, Victor, what are investigators now working on in terms of -- we're going to be talking to a hostage negotiator in a moment. But how are they trying to contact Dykes, and what are they saying? Are you able to tell us anything about that?

BLACKWELL: Well, the local law enforcement, state law enforcement are keeping everything very close to the vest. They're not giving us much information about the negotiation. We do know that there have been local members of the state Senate who have been communicating with the parents of the boy and they have been, of course, the parents are getting updates from law enforcement.

But as far as all of that information coming to the media, it's been pretty much a blackout for us. All of the news conferences yesterday were canceled and we're still waiting for an update to come later this evening.

BURNETT: All right. Victor, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

And I want to go to Chris Voss. He's a hostage negotiator, former member of the FBI.

Chris, you just heard Victor's reporting comments there. Day four in this crisis, it's a really cold night. They're in an underground bunker with a 5-year-old boy.

What does this tell you about how the talks are going, that we're in day four?

CHRIS VOSS, FORMER FBI LEAD INTERNATIONAL HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, at this point, they have taken it to the stage where they're probably feeling that they're at a bit of an impasse. They have given him an opportunity to talk. They have a pretty good idea of what's on his mind. They're struggling now for the threads they're going to be looking for that will be the keys to getting him out of this.

They have learned a lot about him. And they realize now the patience is still the key. They're really sort of searching, sifting through what he said to find out what the thread is going to be that's going to unravel this.

BURNETT: And as time goes by, what, from your experience, what are the chances that this story has a happy ending?

VOSS: Well, the chances that it will have a happy ending are still very good. From what I can tell -- I mean, I have been talking to people that are close to the scene. The threat level is not increasing.

It's stable, and it's been stable for several days, as near as I can tell from what they're saying to me. And that's a good sign. That actually gives them more options in terms of communication to try to find a way to get him thinking in a positive way, so that he sees there's another way out of this, because really, physically, there is no way to get into this site.

So they're going to have to talk him out, and the chances are very good that they will be able to.

BURNETT: And I know you have been watching this story closely since the very beginning. In terms of the way it happened, that he went on this bus, that he killed the bus driver point blank, and he grabbed a 5-year-old boy. Why this boy? Why not another child? Do you think this is a purposeful selection of this child, that he had been watching this child, or is it random?

VOSS: The indicators are that the selection of the child was random. There's a pretty good chance that he had been eyeing the bus and the turning around in the driveway was something that had been building up inside of him. There's some other apparent triggers here, the possibility that he had a court date that he had to face, and these things sort of weighed on him.

But as far as the actual child goes, that looks like it was random, which it bodes well overall for the safety of the child because that means that the child himself is not the target of the anger or his rage.

BURNETT: And in terms of things that the negotiators are asking Dykes, I'm always so curious how these conversations happen. When you say they're trying to get him think positively and do something to release the boy, first of all, he could be mentally disturbed, but he's well aware, if not, that when he comes out, he's going to be in serious trouble. So, how do you convince someone like that that this is the right thing to do?

VOSS: Well, it's more how things line up with what he sees is necessary for his message as opposed to what we would perceive as the right thing to do. He wouldn't have taken all of these defensive measures if he didn't want to live. If he didn't want to live, he would have come out and gotten into a gun fight with law enforcement.

So, while -- as long as he wants to live, and if he has a message to get out, they need to connect those two things up to get him to come out.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate your time.

Well, Hillary Clinton officially resigned today. You may know about that, but we really are sure you don't know about this. We take a look back at some of the most special moments from her time as secretary of state in a very one of a kind way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Hillary Clinton formally resigned from the post of secretary of state today. And Chelsea Clinton just tweeted this picture out, with a message, "Grateful for my mom and the remarkable @StateDept team's service. Thankful I shared her last day as #SOS #ProudDaughter." A lovely picture.

And for days, we've talked at length about very serious things, the many of accomplishments of Hillary Clinton. But, you know, there were lighter moments too when you got to 200-plus countries. And for the past four years, Hillary has learned to figuratively and literally let her hair down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Hi, everybody. Welcome to the State Department.

(MUSIC)

CLINTON: And I particularly want to thank assistant secretary Kirk Campbell for driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now.