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Delaware Courthouse Shooting; Pope Benedict XVI Resigning

Aired February 11, 2013 - 15:00   ET


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we roll on. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Good to be with you live at the CNN world headquarters.

We begin with another shooting, this one inside a courthouse, in the lobby. This all happened in Wilmington, Delaware. We're told this man just walked in, started shooting. According to several reports, it might have involved some kind of domestic dispute. We will take you there live.

But, first, reaction pouring in to the announced resignation of the pope. We told you about it before, even higher ups within the Catholic Church are saying the pope's announcement this morning took them by shock. The archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan, describing himself as startled. We talked to these folks in Washington. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my goodness. I didn't think his health was that bad. But it probably was getting pretty bad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is coming from his heart. Maybe some illness. Nobody knows.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, I was shocked and absolutely pleasantly surprised.

QUESTION: Why pleasantly surprised?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I really think that we have to look at our church and see how it should go going forward.


BALDWIN: Heard quite a bit of that, actually, quite a few Catholics saying they do admire the work Pope Benedict has done, but maybe it's time to go younger. The pope is 85, turns 86 in April and he cited advancing age as a cause for resignation.

John Allen is standing by for us in Rome. He's our senior Vatican analyst and right here with me in studio is Wilton Gregory.

Welcome, the Catholic archbishop here in Atlanta.

John Allen, let me begin with you here. Is this a good time for the church to turn a page? We talk about the fact he's almost 86. Might it be time to have a successor who is younger in years?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, Brooke, as you heard from the court of (INAUDIBLE) clips you just ran, there will undoubtedly be a variety of reactions to that.

Certainly, the greatest admirers and fans of Benedict XVI will undoubtedly wish he could have stuck around a little bit longer. Others will say it is a great time to turn a page. But the bottom line is this is not a decision that is put up for a vote. This was a decision, a very personal decision by Benedict XVI.

We had a briefing today with the Vatican spokesperson, Father Federico Lombardi, who indicated this was something that Benedict had prayed over, thought deeply about and that in the end, Benedict had decided that giving his increasing age, and his increasing frailty and increasing limits in terms of what he's capable of doing, in his heart, he felt the time had come for him to step aside and make room for someone else. And in the end, Brooke, that with the only decision that matters.

BALDWIN: Let me turn the conversation to Archbishop Gregory, and just a similar question. As he's announcing this resignation, it is 8:00 end up of February. We know the date. Do you think it is time that we have a pope perhaps younger, perhaps in his 50s?

REV. WILTON GREGORY, ARCHBISHOP OF ATLANTA: Well, obviously, the very fact that he acknowledged that the stress of the job...

BALDWIN: It's a taxing job.

GREGORY: Well, it is an all-consuming job. And he just acknowledged that it was beyond his own stamina and strength at this time.

Now, who should succeed him? Obviously, that's a question that the College of Cardinals will have to consider and consider very seriously. The age, the experience, all of those issues will no doubt be taken into serious consideration.

BALDWIN: Is it time to take even into further serious consideration though his age specifically? Should that matter?

GREGORY: Well, the fact that the code of canon law already has a provision for any pope to consider bringing his service to conclusion, so it is there and he employed it, which says an awful lot about him, but also speaks well of the provisions that the law already has in place.

BALDWIN: Let me share this with you and our viewers here. I think a lot of people will find this interesting. I know I did. We were looking to see which country is the leading Catholic country around the world. It is Brazil. You see Brazil at 134 million Catholics. After that, you have Mexico. You have the Philippines, United States, Italy here, and if you break it down this way, about half the world's Catholics, this is a great pie chart, half the world's Catholics live in North or South America. The Americas here, the blue part of the pie, about a quarter live in Europe, 16 percent live in Africa, 12 percent in the Asia Pacific region. Is it time to have a non-European pope, Archbishop?

GREGORY: Well, I think the question is -- and I presume this will be the question that the College of Cardinals will begin to consider -- is what does the office need?

I don't believe that the first question should be culture, language, et cetera, but what does the office need and who is the candidate best qualified to step into that position, based on the analysis of the needs of the time?

BALDWIN: So it shouldn't matter necessarily that almost half of the world's Catholics live in North and South America? Shouldn't matter?

GREGORY: The vote is not over who has the greatest clout. The vote is over who is in the best position to govern the church universally.

And that person may come from a developing country, it may come from a country that we aren't even -- have in focus yet. I think we look at it -- obviously we have to -- from the American political perspective. But I think the College of Cardinals has to look at it from the perspective of the world church, its needs. Where and how the individual comes to that position is based on his capacity to govern the entire church.

BALDWIN: OK. Archbishop Wilton Gregory, thank you so much. We will have you back I suppose maybe once we figure out who that person will be. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.


GREGORY: OK. Thank you.

BALDWIN: And you can say this pope was pretty unique. Not only did he lead the world's Catholics, he joined Twitter. Oh, and don't forget about fashion here. Check out these trademarked red loafers. You see them? Stay with us. In about half-an-hour, we will look at some of the more memorable moments from Pope Benedict.



BALDWIN: He says he wants revenge on the LAPD. And now as this ex-cop remains on the run, police announce they're looking into the firing of Chris Dorner. I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

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BALDWIN: Thousands inside Cowboys Stadium to honor a fallen American sniper. Plus, a look at some of the most infamous moments of Pope Benedict's reign.

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BALDWIN: This is not a random act of violence. This is the headline so far. You're looking at live pictures. This is Beau Biden, son of our vice president, and the attorney general there in Delaware speaking now about this deadly courthouse shooting in Wilmington, two people dead, actually three if you include the shooter here.

Let's take a listen.


BEAU BIDEN, DELAWARE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Second point I would like to make on behalf of the courts, while I don't speak for the court system, the court is announcing as we speak or imminently that court will be closed tomorrow and that personnel, employees of the courts here in New Castle County specifically, will be closed tomorrow, and they should go to the Web site to look for information about information about what to do and what updates they can seek, including specifically any counselors that they might want to speak to based on what they were witness to or saw this morning.

This only relates to the New Castle County Courthouse. This does not affect, not affect any other court in the state of Delaware. And the third point I would like to make is self-evident. It's the bravery of the men and women in uniform who made sure this morning wasn't as bad as it -- wasn't worse than it already was.

BALDWIN: Joe Johns is in Washington. He has been digging on this fatal shooting at that courthouse in Wilmington.

Joe, let me just bring you in. Just take me back. What happened this morning?


Well, what he was just talking about is sort of the theme of today, the bravery of those officers. These were some very scary moments at the courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware. Authorities say a man in his 50s or 60s walked into the New Castle County Courthouse around 8:00 this morning, started shooting and before that shooter was stopped, two women were dead, two police officers wounded, according to local reports.

One of the women is said to be the estranged wife of the shooter. So these police officers who were already in the area engaged the suspect. A gunfight breaks out and officials gave us an update. Can we go to that sound now? Just listen to what happened with these officers who were injured.


SGT. PAUL SHAVACK, DELAWARE STATE POLICE: In the exchange of gunfire, two Capitol Police officers were shot, but I can tell you that they are non-life-threatening injuries. I can tell you that on behalf of the chief of the Capitol Police they're doing well. They were shot in their vests. Their protective vests took the bullet.


JOHNS: The vest took the bullet. Delaware State Police say that despite those two fatalities, the security perimeter around the courthouse actually held up and it did what it was supposed to do, which was protect the public -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Joe Johns, thank you so much there.

And a big announcement today in the manhunt for Christopher Dorner, the former L.A. police officer now suspected of killing three people. In his manifesto, Dorner says his unfair firing led to the shooting spree. Now L.A.'s police chief says he's going to personally review the case. We're live in L.A. next.


BALDWIN: As the hunt for an alleged L.A. cop killer widens here, the reward money for his capture has grown to seven digits, the largest L.A. authorities say they have actually ever offered before. I'm talking $1 million that is now on the table for information leading to the arrest of this man, Christopher Dorner.

You know the story now. He's the former L.A. cop now accused of killing a fellow officer and two others and targeting 50 more LAPD officers and their families. Since he went on the run, that was one week ago today, Dorner has been tracked to multiple locations. One of them may include this alley behind an auto parts store. This is National City, California. You see this person going back and forth between the trunk and this dumpster?

CNN has exclusively obtained this video, shows a man fitting Dorner's description dumping something there. Listen to what a store employee then found inside.


MAJID YAHYAI, PLATINUM AUTO SPORTS: One of the employees, he came back with a clip, like a magazine full of bullets, a belt, a military belt and a helmet.


BALDWIN: CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin is with me to talk about this case here.

But, first, Miguel Marquez, I want to go to you outside LAPD headquarters. I know police spoke with reporters today. Are they any closer to finding this guy?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is the hope. But, look, they have 600 clues they say they're poring through, more than 100 investigators on this thing hoping to get some sort of heat going on this investigation.

I don't get the sense they have any real dramatic or hot developments that they're working on right now, but they certainly have a lot of folks working on it. People across the Southland here are certainly nervous as well. No better case than the Lowe's home store yesterday. A call went out, 911 call went out, said they had a Dorner sighting in that Lowe's in Northridge. Police showed up in force.

People came out with their shopping carts, their families, rolling out of that Lowe's into the parking lot, one by one. Just amazing, amazing how nervous and concerned people are about Mr. Dorner right now, and the police here in town also announcing that they are going to reexamine everything leading up to Mr. Dorner's firing.


CHARLIE BECK, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, POLICE CHIEF: I'm not doing this to appease him. I'm doing this so that the community has faith in what the police department does. And I'm going to -- I'm going to make a rigorous inspection to either validate or refute his claims and we will make that inspection public.


MARQUEZ: Now, Chief Beck has taken some heat here in town for reopening that investigation before catching the guy. But I think they're trying everything they can to try to get him out and find him -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Miguel Marquez, thank you.

Sunny Hostin, I want to get right to the point Miguel was making, because this is what I want answered. Now we know Chief Beck is reopening this investigation into his firing. What if police, what if they find that he was unjustly treated, unjustly fired, or might this be a police tactic just to try to get him to turn himself in?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Bottom line, even if it is found that these rantings in his manifesto really do have some basis, that he was fired because of racism, because the LAPD was corrupt at the time, that doesn't negate the fact he has allegedly murdered three people. I think there are certainly different issues. But I have got to tell you, Brooke, it is very clear the LAPD is facing this sort of P.R. nightmare because in order for law enforcement to find him, in order for law enforcement to get these tips from the community, there has to be trust. And they have to shore up that trust by being transparent.

If you look at the blogs and if you look at some of the reports about this case, Christopher Dorner is receiving widespread in many respects support for his allegations that this stems from corruption and, you know, abuse and racism at the LAPD. And let's face it, there is a history there with the LAPD of this abuse, of this corruption.

We're in Rodney King land when we talk about the LAPD. So I think this is a very smart move by this police chief to be as transparent as possible in opening up this investigation.

BALDWIN: Talks a lot about Rodney King in that whole thing, in that manifesto, if you read it.

Let me ask you though this, because it makes me think of when the video of the people sort of piling out of the Lowe's store that Miguel was talking about, that the fear is just palpable around Southern California. We have now learned in the case of that mistaken identity when those officers shot at those two women recently that they will compensate this mother and daughter who officers hit, thinking the truck belonged to Dorner when it didn't at all.

The women are getting this new truck. Do you think a lawsuit against the force is maybe likely here?

HOSTIN: I think certainly it is likely because if you look at the facts, as I know them, or as they're being reported, Brooke, the make and the model of the car were completely different. This sort of hearkens back to this reputation that the LAPD has to struggle with, this shoot-first and, you know, investigate later.

These were two women in a truck that was not the same make and model of the other truck, bullet-riddled truck and they also suffered injuries. And so certainly I think that olive branch of providing them with a new truck goes a ways to sort of again shoring up that comfort level with the community, but will they be sued for that? It's likely that a lawyer is looking at it.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you.

HOSTIN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Pope Benedict has had a couple of close calls during his time as the lead figure of the Catholic Church. Remember this? The pope dodging people trying to get a bit close here on a couple of occasions. We have pulled some of the more memorable moments of Pope Benedict's reign here. That's coming up.