Return to Transcripts main page


Church Divided Over Pope's Legacy; Pope Resigns In Surprise Move; Civil War In The GOP; Paterno Family Fights Back

Aired February 11, 2013 - 19:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, a shocking announcement out of the Vatican today. Pope Benedict resigns, but why and what kind of pope will replace him?

Plus a power struggle in the Republican Party. In the end, who will be the voice of the GOP? Somebody might die in this fight. Will Rubio win or somebody like Rand?

And Ted Nugent has been invited to attend tomorrow's "State of the Union Address." We have a preview of what he might say in a special report. Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. Tonight, the "Forbes" fifth most powerful man in the world resigns. Pope Benedict XVI surprised many of his nearly 1.2 billion followers worldwide when he said today he was going to step down at the end of the month, and the reason, the cause of his advance age.

Now in case, you are sure what "Forbes" means by powerful, here's part of it. Nearly one in four Americans identifies as Catholic. According to the church, the Catholic population worldwide has about 15 million members in 2010, the latest year for which there was data.

About 17 percent of the planet is Catholic. Now, a church is believed to be the third largest landowner in the world, so it's hard to estimate what the church owns and what it's worth. Remember, of course, though, it owns the Sistine chapel, which one could say is priceless.

The economists though estimate the annual spending just in the United States by the Catholic Church and its entities was about $170 billion in one year, 2010. Sister Simone Campbell is the executive director of the National Catholic Social Justice lobby. Brian Finnerty is a U.S. communications director for Opus Dei. Scary guys.

Let me start with you, Sister Simone. The church, I want to start with a very serious issue, $3.3 billion has been paid out by the church in the past 15 years to settle rape and molestation charges of boys against priests.

Pope Benedict has been accused of failing to act by some. The executive director of the Survivors Network of those abused by priests today spoke. His name is David Clohessy and he told "USA Today," I want to read his quote. "When forced to, he talks about the crimes but ignores the cover- ups, uses the past tense as if to suggest it's not still happening. He has vast powers and he's done very little to make a difference." Is that true?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NETWORK: I don't know exactly what the pope has done to atone for what's happened. I do know that this has been a scandal in our church, but worst of all, it has been -- caused serious harm to children for many years.

And that we as a church need to atone for that. Paying money is one thing, but we all know that doesn't make up or atone for the sin of these crimes against children. We have a lot still to do. We need leadership that will engage that issue.

BURNETT: And do you think, Brian, that the next pope needs to be active on this? I mean, there are still cases now in this country where there are priests who abuse children and there were people, perhaps, at the highest level of the Vatican, who covered up for that?

BRIAN FINNERTY, U.S. COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, OPUS DEI: I think the next pope absolutely needs to be sensitive to this, but he also needs to be recognized that Pope Benedict was the first pope to meet with victims of sex abuse.

He was a pope who pushed through new procedures so the church would be sensitive to the needs of victims. So I think a tremendous amount has been done, and the church will continue to try to be sensitive to the needs of victims.

BURNETT: All right, I want to ask about a couple of other issues and I want to start the issue of homosexuality and same sex marriage. Brian, the church is oppose so here in America, 1 in 4 Americans identify themselves as Catholic, and of Catholics in the United States of America, 54 percent of them support gay marriage.

So clearly, the will of the Catholic people in the United States is in favor of gay marriage, not the church. Isn't it time for the church, which is supposed to be an inclusive, generous giving organization, to move ahead on gay rights?

FINNERTY: Well, I think the reality is almost every single time, there has been one case in which gay marriage was put to the voters and the voters actually supported gay marriage. When people are educated on the issue and have a chance to reflect on it, people will vote against it and part of the reason is --

BURNETT: Do you think in the United States, the tide is going to actually turn back and people are going to go against gay marriage?

FINNERTY: I can't prognosticate for the future, but what I do know as a Catholic and what I believe as a human being is it's good for a child to be able to experience the love of both a mother and a father. And the love of a mother and a father is irreplaceable. And also, if we start tinkering with marriage, I think we're going off in very dangerous directions. So I would think we should be very cautious in doing that.

BURNETT: Even if they love each other, isn't the Catholic Church supposed to be about love?

FINNERTY: Yes, the Catholic Church is about love, and the Catholic Church is about telling all of us that we should love in a genuine way and a way which is good for the other human being and a way which is good for families. What the Catholic Church is saying is that this indeed in the end is not good for families, is not good for society. But at the same time, it is -- the Catholic Church does recognize that gays have inherent human dignity.

BURNETT: It's hard to say they have inherent human dignity and then say they can't be part of your church. Sister Simone, why don't you jump in here? Is this going to be a deal breaker?

CAMPBELL: I would love to jump in. I think the challenge is our church looks at it from the church perspective, from the hierarchy's perspective, but we live in a pluralistic world, and we know that Jesus welcomed in all and said go, teach all, and love is the measure for all we love all.

And it's that welcoming embrace that we need as a church, not censure and judging each other. Jesus do not judge and so I urge our leaders to be as Christ was, the welcoming part of faith, and that's where we need to move. Not in judging and creating lines that divide and separate. That's wrong.

BURNETT: And Brian, are you willing to lose people over this issue? I was raised Catholic. A lot of people I know were, and most of them are no longer practicing. Some have to do with women's rights, but a lot has to do with the stance on gay marriage. Are you willing to lose people if they don't go along --

FINNERTY: If the church embraces the spirit of the times, are the churches that are losing numbers. And so what the Catholic Church needs to do, the Catholic Church needs to say, Christ calls you to love, to love him, you have to love all of humanity. And it calls you -- part of that is conversion as well. With respect to homosexuality, the church is saying there are forms of behavior that are not constructive, but we love you and we can work with you. That's what the church is trying to say.

BURNETT: I want to move on quickly before we go to one other issue, Sister Simone, the issue of women. Why a lot of people have been frustrated with this church in this country that have abandoned it. Can there ever be a change. You're Sister Simone. What about having a priest that was a woman? What about the symbol that that would send to little girls?

CAMPBELL: I actually grew up as a young girl and played mass with my sister, and I didn't realize as a girl that I couldn't do it. So I have a long history of thinking we are leaders within our church. I do think that there's room for reconsidering this issue.

When you look at the artifacts and the early writings, women were deacons in the early church. Women provided leadership. Women celebrated sacraments with the people. So I think we can return to our early roots as opposed to the middle ages where there was more of an emphasis on the patriarchy. If we recovered our real heritage, women would once again be in their rightful place.

BURNETT: Thank you very much to Sister Simone. Quickly before we go, in a word, women priests? She's right. Back before the Middle Ages, women had more rights.

FINNERTY: They have to follow the example of Christ who ordained priests, but who also embraced having women in leadership roles in the ministry that he carried out. So we have to be faithful to Christ.

BURNETT: Thank you very much. Appreciate both of you taking the time. Please share your point of view with us. We want to hear it obviously, two very different points of view tonight.

Still to come, some say there's is a civil war in the Republican Party. Who will end up calling the shots for the GOP or will it splinter into oblivion?

Plus, a girl who performed at the president's inauguration was murdered in Chicago. Why is it taking so long to find her killer?

And Joe Paterno's family calls a investigation into the Penn State child rape scandal factually wrong and fundamentally flawed. Joe Paterno's son comes OUTFRONT to explain why.


BURNETT: Our second story, OUTFRONT, civil war in the GOP between Donald Trump calling Karl Rove a total loser and the duelling Republican responses to the president's "State of the Union" address tomorrow night, what is really going on in the GOP?

Here is how Senator Rand Paul who is giving tomorrow's Tea Party response, the president puts it, with a touch of diplomacy.


SENATOR RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: There's a lot of energy that still comes from the Tea Party. While they consider themselves mostly to be Republican, they occasionally will chastise even the Republican establishment so they want an independent voice.


BURNETT: Chastise, that's a polite way of saying what's been happening recently. OUTFRONT tonight, Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell. Governor, great to see you, really appreciate your taking the time.


BURNETT: All right, I have to say it has been pretty interesting watching the Republican Party recently. A little bit like watching, perhaps, a pay-per-view wrestling match. Rand Paul giving an address tomorrow in addition to Marco Rubio, two rebuttals to the president from one party. Is that a good or a bad thing for the party?

MCDONNELL: Listen, we're not a monolithic party, Erin. We have a diversity of opinions just like they do in the Democratic Party. The president is in the more liberal wing, and there are some moderates who disagree with him on things.

Listen, we have some work to do, after losing a presidential election two cycles in a row, to a president that had a $16 trillion debt and an 8 percent unemployment rate, that's not good, so there are different views on how to get us back on tract.

I guess the good news is we control a good majority of the state legislatures and 30 out of the 50 governors are Republicans. We have been gaining for the last four years. So I think we're winning in some areas. At the national level, we clearly have some work to do.

BURNETT: All right, and look, I have to give you credit. You came out, 30 of 50 governors. Let me ask you, because of the talk about the civil war, the Donald Trump tweet about Karl Rove, here is what Donald Trump tweeted. No doubt you're aware of it, but let me just read it in case you're not, Governor.

"Karl Rove's strategy and commercials were the worst I have ever seen. Karl Rove is a total loser. Money given to him might as well be thrown down the drain." Now other Tea Partiers with whom Donald Trump is aligned have criticized Rove and said he's become too moderate, which has left me scratching my head because this is a guy who used to be considered the bull wart of the right side of the Republican Party.

So who is the real Republican? Is it Donald Trump? Is it Karl Rove, if you had to choose?

MCDONNELL: Listen, I know both of them. They're all good Republicans. We have some disagreements, just like the other side. When you lose after a presidential race, there's always this soul searching. I think it's healthy. What is our message? How are we going to appeal to those young voters and new voters and minority voters that we lost in big numbers this time?

How are we going to change our tone so that we are more effective messengers? And I think Marco Rubio is going to do a great job tomorrow night explaining the Republican message to a broader audience. So look, this is just part of the process. I'm not that worried about it. I don't call it a civil war. It's a disagreement in the family and we'll be a stronger Republican Party going forward.

BURNETT: All right, do you think, though, when you look at, let's say Chris Christie. Could he actually get a nomination in the Republican Party given that he comes from a state that has some of the most restrictive, I believe second most restrictive gun law in the country, that he is considered to be open-minded on things like gay marriage? He calls himself a Republican, but it seems like looking at a republican primary, he would look like a flaming Democrat.

MCDONNELL: Chris is a friend of mine. He's a darn good governor. He's got a 70-something percent approval rating in a blue state. This is a guy that knows how to get things done.

I think people want results and not talk. Plenty of rhetoric and talk and blame shifting in Washington, and governors know how to get something done, so the answer is yes. We want to elect people and nominate people who are principally conservative but can win. And I think you'll see more of that going forward. Governors are good ones to lead the way.

BURNETT: All right. And Marco Rubio. I mean, you have been talked about as a candidate for 2016, Marco Rubio obviously giving the formal Republican rebuttal to the president tomorrow night. And it obviously - well, I'll just say it, seemed like that was a pretty obvious choice. You want to talk about immigration. You want to put out someone up who is diverse. You don't want to put up a white guy right now if you're the Republican party.

Do you need Rubio to be the nominee for the Republican party to not become what the left-leaning New Republic has just called the GOP as the party of white people?

MCDONNELL: Well, I mean, that's grossly unfair. Both parties have -- we're a majority white country. We're becoming more diverse. And I think that's a great thing.

And our challenge is to be able to say why this conservative Republican message actually gets results, why conservatism works and liberalism fails. And why for the average person in America, why it actually produces things that are better for your family on taxes, on spending, on education, on debt and deficit. Look, this president has run into $16 trillion in debt, heading to $17 trillion, and a job rate that is abysmal. So, I think the president has to explain how he's going to turn that around. Marco Rubio is a great guy to deliver that message about why these ideas work.

BURNETT: All right. Well Governor McDonnell, thank you very much for coming on and talking to me about it. I appreciate it.

A girl who performed add the president's inauguration was gunned down in Chicago. We have the latest developments in the hunt for her killer.

Plus, Ted Nugent invited to attend the state of the union address. He's going to be there tomorrow night. When we were at his ranch, he had this message for the president.


TED NUGENT, SINGER: These are all legal guns, and I'm going to see that they remain legal because they're all good.



BURNETT: Our third story OUTFRONT, Murder City. So Chicago saw more than 500 homicides last year. That tops New York City, which has three times the population of Chicago.

But it's the killing of a teenaged girl, an innocent bystander, that has brought new focus to the city. Hadiya Pendleton, who was performing in the president's inauguration parade, was then gunned down on Chicago's South Side two weeks ago. Her parents will be the Michelle Obama's guest at the state of the union address tomorrow night. And this is after the first lady went to Pendleton's funeral over the weekend.

OUTFRONT tonight, Ted Rowlands in Chicago. And Ted, what is the latest in the search for her killer?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, two people are in custody. They're being called persons of interest at this point, but we are expecting an update at some point in this investigation from Chicago police. The bottom line, in this case like many murders in this city, it's been very difficult to make a arrest because people are so reluctant to tell police what they know.



ROWLANDS: The murder of 15-year-old honor student Hadiya Pendleton is a case that people in Chicago want solved. The high school sophomore who had just returned from performing as a marching band majorette at the presidential inauguration was killed in this park after finishing a final exam.

But getting witnesses to help police make an arrest, even in a case that's gotten so much attention for almost two weeks, has been difficult.

GERRY MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: People are rightfully concerned about their participation as witnesses in this case or in any other case that involves a murder.

ROWLANDS: Chicago police say attacks against witnesses are actually rare, but people still believe they're in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to live here and my family lives here, so it would really be a problem with me telling.

ROWLANDS: Because what could happen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they would kill people. It's that dangerous out here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is dangerous to do it. Because you don't know who is watching and who knows you and what they're capable of doing.

ROWLANDS: What could they do to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could probably shoot you or kill you.

ROWLANDS: That's exactly what they did last April to 26-year-old Kimberly Harris, shot 20 times, three times in the face, just days before she was to testify against a gang member accused of killing her boyfriend. There were arrests in fewer than 40 percent of the 506 homicides in Chicago last year. In many cases police simply couldn't get witnesses to tell them what happened.

ANITA ALVAREZ, COOK COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY: If we don't have those witnesses, when we go to trial, how are we ever going to win our case? How are we ever going to hold that person responsible?

FATHER MICHAEL PHLEGER: And the community to not be afraid to name them, to out them, to turn them in!

ROWLANDS: Father Michael Phleger has been preaching at St. Sabina Catholic Church on Chicago's South Side for almost 30 years.

PHLEGER: We have to start reframing the way everything is talked about. You're going to be threatened. No, most likely you're not. You're a snitch. No, you're saving somebody else's life.

ROWLANDS: It's already too late to save this life, one that had so much promise and was cut way too short.


BURNETT: Ted, of course, Chicago, the president's, you know, his hometown. He's going to be coming there on Friday. He has been criticized by some for ignoring the violence in Chicago. What do people hope he's going to do on Friday?

ROWLANDS: I think specifically in the short term, Erin, they're hoping he'll just extend the dialogue which was started by Hadiya Pendleton's death. Really, her death has struck a never in this city like none other, at least for years. And that is that all the stakeholders are getting together, and there's a real feel that people have had enough and there has to be something done. They hope the president coming here will continue that dialogue and there will be some resolve.

BURNETT: Ted, thank you very much. Reporting from Chicago tonight.

Still to come, the head of the LAPD makes a really surprising move, responding to Christopher Dorner's claims of racism. Meanwhile, Dorner is still being hunted down, accused of murder.

Plus, the attorney for one of the Penn State rape victims calls for an investigation by the Paterno family "self-serving." Joe Paterno's son, Jay, is OUTFRONT to respond to the accusation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT. We start with stories we care about where we focus on reporting from the front lines.

We begin with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who said today that Iran is getting closer to the infamous red line that you might recall he drew so boldly at the U.N. last September. While Iran has not crossed that line yet, Netanyahu told visiting American-Jewish leaders that Iran is, quote, "shortening the time needed to cross it." Massa Zarif of the American Enterprise Institute tells us Netanyahu is likely referring to Iran's recent announcement that it intends to install advanced centrifuge machines at its Netan (ph) enrichment facility. He said those centrifuges are a lot more productive than the machines Iran is currently using.

A memorial was held in Texas today for Chris Kyle, the former Navy SEAL who was shot by a fellow veteran he was trying to help. Thousands attended the service at Cowboy Stadium for the man who called himself America's most lethal military sniper. There were musical performances and several tributes to Kyle.

The most emotional, though, came from his wife. She told the audience her husband was a warrior on and off the battlefield.

Well, those gearing up for spring break, watch out. Shark attacks are at a decade high in the United States. According to a University of Florida study, there were 53 shark attacks in the United States last year. That is the most since the year 2000. Twenty-six of them occurred in Florida.

George Burgess of the Florida Museum of Natural History's international shark attack file, they tell us the uptick has to do with the human population. With so many people frequenting the beaches, he says there are naturally going to be more attacks facing mortals.

It has been 557 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating. What are we doing to get it back? Well, jobs are key to the economic recovery. Today, the vice chairwoman of the Federal Reserve said we have been making progress but warned a prosperous job market is going to take years to come.

And now, the Paternos fighting back. A new report commissioned by the family called an investigation into the Penn State sex scandal factually wrong, speculative and fundamentally flawed. Paterno's family hired three experts to rebut the Penn State report which had concluded in July that Joe Paterno and three other university officials failed to protect innocent children from being sexually abused by former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.

OUTFRONT tonight is Jay Paterno, Joe Paterno's son and former attorney general and former Pennsylvania Dick Thornburgh, one of three experts hired by the Paterno family.

Great to see both of you.

And good to see you, Jay. Thank you so much for coming in.

All right. You have put a lot of time into this report. You feel that your father was wronged. This has become a cause for you.

JAY PATERNO, SON OF JOE PATERNO: Well, the report had a couple aims. One was to get to the truth. And I think that's more important than anything.

And a second thing is if we could also create some heightened level of awareness about nice guy predators. We felt that would be -- probably more important than anything.

So, had it really two things we were going after.

BURNETT: Now, nice guy predators, you're referring to people who may walk among us and we just have no idea, right?

PATERNO: Yes. I mean, when I met, when I read Jim Clemente's report, I'm a father of five. And there were some things that really jumped out at me because if you would have asked me 18 months ago, what does a predator look like, I would have said the guy in the van cruising playground parking lots and school parking lots looking for kids.

And that's not the case with nice guy predators. These guys are coaches, scout leaders. They're in your communities. They're pillars of the community.

BURNETT: All right. I want to ask both of you then about some things, give you a chance to respond in the Louis Freeh report. He obviously wrote the original report for Penn State. So, he said, and I want to quote him here from the report, "Mr. Paterno was aware of the criminal 1998 investigation into Sandusky's suspected child abuse. Indeed, the evident shows that Mr. Paterno closely followed that case. Later, in 2001, another one of his assistance, Mike McQueary, directly reported to Mr. Paterno that Sandusky was sexually abusing a young boy in the Penn State football locker room. The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno purposefully ignored this evidence."

When you say walks among us, if you father knew back in 1998, how does that add up?

PATERNO: Well, there is no evidence he did know in 1998. In fact, there are several men who can -- who testified under oath that he was not told. As Governor Thornburgh's report, it also states that the Pennsylvania law at the time had a very high level of confidentiality as it related to investigations and child sexual abuse. So that fact has not been established. In fact, there's a lot of evidence, the preponderance of the evidence that he was not aware.

BURNETT: All right. So, Governor Thornburgh, let me ask you this then, given what Jay just said, Louis Freeh has said there was an active agreement to conceal Jerry Sandusky's behavior. Back in 2001, the incident with Mike McQueary. He -- Louis Freeh report cites this exchange, an email that apparently was between Graham Spanier, the president of Penn State, and vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley.

Here's the email. It says, "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps. I am having trouble with going to everyone, but the person involved. If he is cooperative, we would work with him to handle informing the organization. I would indicate that we feel there is a problem and we want to assist the individual to get professional help."

You're saying that e-mail doesn't add up to sufficient evidence to show Joe Paterno conspired to cover up the incident. Some listening to that, though, might say, well, after they spoke to Joe, they decided to back off.

DICK THORNBURGH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Let me say two things in response to that. First of all, the accusation that Mr. Paterno tried to conceal anything that happened in 2001 is palpably false because he was the one who reported it to the administration and the people who had a responsibility for looking after those things.

Secondly, they have a difficult time distinguishing between I and we. If you read the e-mail carefully, you can see the things that are referred to as collective action and those as singular. It's a little bit technical, I'll admit, but when you have so little in the way of evidence available, you have to look at it carefully and come to the conclusion that we did in the report.

BURNETT: So, let me ask you, Jay, about this, another thing said in the Freeh report, which I thought was just interesting in the way. It was just talking about the spirit of what happened.

It said, "These men exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well being, especially by not even attempting to determine the identity of the child." They were referring to the shower incident with McQueary there.

Do you have moments where you think about that and say, dad, were you thinking by not pushing it?

PATERNO: Well, you have to understand the timetable. Mike witnessed something on a Friday. He talked to Joe on a Saturday. The most likely place this child would have come from was Second Mile, and Tim Curley went to the Second Mile, reported to the head of the Second Mile. So, in that regard, he did attempt to find out who that child was.

Whether Louis Freeh thinks they should have gotten cars and driven around town and things like that, I don't know. You would have to ask him.

But they certainly did try to ascertain who it was.


BURNETT: Yes, go ahead, Governor. THORNBURGH: One of the lessons we should learn from this is a negative lesson. Not everybody should try to become a detective or a law enforcement official trying to uncover these things. There are experts who specialize in these areas.

Jim Clemente, of course, is the best there is. And when you -- and Joe mentioned this in his observations, that he didn't want to upset what the professionals might do by mucking around as an amateur. I think that's a very important lesson to carry away from this.

BURNETT: Jay, I just want to play, you and your mother sat down with Katie Couric. I wanted to play something your mother said today and give you a chance to respond to it. Here see she is.


SUE PATERNO, WIFE OF JOE PATERNO: Let me ask you this, Katie. Jerry adopted children, the experts vetted him. He had foster children. The experts vetted him. The executive director of Second Mile is a child psychologist.

If the experts don't know, how can we know?


BURNETT: I mean, she has a fair point. But when Mike McQueary comes and tells your dad he saw what he saw, do you think he would have done it differently?

PATERNO: If -- knowing what we know now about Jerry Sandusky, and we have to be very careful when you judge think things in historical perspective.


PATERNO: At the time Mike went to Joe, it was -- what he told him was not very specific, by Mike's own admission. And what we knew about Jerry Sandusky at the time was this guy was a pillar of the community. He had started a charity that really helps thousands of kids.

So, everything would point you away from believing that. And, you know, when you read Jim Clemente's report, part of the psychology of this is nice guy predators do everything they can to turn you away from their actions and fool you.

So yes, there were a lot of people fooled. I mean, I worked with Jerry Sandusky for five years, I have known him my whole life.

BURNETT: You're hearing any of those allegations?

PATERNO: I'm one of those people who were fooled. And reading this report now, if nothing else, people should read Clemente's report as parents, as investigators, because there are very important points he makes in that that we should all learn from.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you very much. I hope people will read it.

Jay Paterno, thank you very much.

Governor Thornburgh, thanks to you.

And now to our fourth story OUTFRONT: charged with murder. Today, authorities in California formally charged Christopher Dorner with the murder of a police officer and the attempted murder of three other officers. Dorner is the former LAPD officer who police say has been on the run since last week. There's now a $1 million reward for information leading to his capture.

But it appears the trail has gone cold after his pickup truck was found last Thursday engulfed in flames near the resort community of Big Bear Lake. Dorner said his revenge of the law enforcement is in response to his termination in 2008. And now, the LAPD is looking into Dorner's firing and his charges of racism, the charger that is sparking a lot of debate.

Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT with the story.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the front page.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The front page.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Radio Free 102.3 KJLH, Compton, Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Inglewood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not murder, this is war.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The debate rages on L.A. talk radio. Christopher Dorner, cop killer or vigilante hero?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe what he is doing is really no different than our ancestors would have done and did do in fighting to get free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not that people don't have a right to be angry. It's what you do about the anger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's awful that we have to buy into that as another African-American man.

LAH: Online, a more bold following, with numerous Facebook fan pages, one even called a Christopher Dorner appreciation society. Where does this come from? L.A.'s old wounds, as acknowledged by L.A.'s police chief as he reopened the investigation into Dorner's

POLICE CHIEF CHARLIE BECK, LAPD: I hear the ghosts of the past of the Los Angeles Police Department. I hear people saying maybe there is something to what he says. I want to put that to rest.

If there is anything to what we says or anything new in what he brings up in his manifesto, we will deal with it and we will deal with it in a public history.

LAH: It's a stunning turn away from a dark history. 1965, the Watts riots triggered by the stop of a black man by white officers.

1991, the brutal beating of Rodney King by four officers caught on videotape. The April acquittal of an all-white jury of all of the officers of assault spurned days of riots through Los Angeles.

And in the late '90s, the Rampart scandal, where an anti-gang unit was accused of beating and framing dozens of suspects from a poor minority neighborhood. The U.S. Department of Justice came in to reform the entire police department.

CONNIE RICE, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: LAPD's relationship with the black community could only be described as a state of war.

LAH: Civil rights attorney Connie Rice sued the LAPD representing hundreds of minority officers and helped change the department. Today, minorities make up more than half of LAPD's force and it has a new mindset.

(on camera): What do you think of the chief reopening the investigation?

RICE: I think it was a tough decision made for the exact right reasons. The openly racist culture of LAPD of 30 years ago is gone.

LAH (voice-over): Rice is now the police chief's trusted adviser. She says Dorner's beef with the LAPD may well be real. But he remains a suspected killer.

RICE: Let's not merge the past with today. And let's separate out the possibility that Mr. Dorner has raised legitimate issues from the complete illegitimacy and obscenity of what he's done.

LAH: The police chief says the reopening of the Dorner firing investigation isn't to appease the fugitive, but a way to continue to close wounds and take another step away from its painful past.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.


BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight, we go to Rio, where carnival is in full swing. Why an American Mormon says her parents would kill her if they knew what she was up to. But you won't say it.

And the Motor City madman Ted Nugent invited to attend President Obama's State of the Union address. When we went to his ranch, he had this to say to the president.


TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: I and I alone by any consideration whatsoever will determine how many bullets I need to protect my family. (END VIDEO CLIP)


BURNETT: We are back with tonight's outer circle where we reach out to our sources around the world.

And tonight, a special report from Brazil. Carnival is in full swing. You know what that means. Not a lot of clothes, but a lot of fun. Samba is a centerpiece of the revelry complete with thumping music and sweaty, sequined bodies.

Shasta Darlington follows an American dancer who is breaking tradition to be a big part of the celebration in Rio.


SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tiny jeweled bikinis and gyrating hips, just what you would expect from Rio de Janeiro's raucous carnival, but not necessarily from a Mormon born and raised in Salem, Oregon.

Mandalyn Gulbrandsen and her friends apply glitter and baby oil before they climb on a three-story float depicting Noah's ark.

MANDALYN GULBRANDSEN, AMERICAN MORMON/SAMBA DANCER: We'll be climbing up the ladder in our platform heels and our tiny costumes, climbing up to line Noah's ark, and this is my headdress.

DARLINGTON: Once on top, they'll have to dance samba to a pounding beat for two or three hours. I asked Mandy and her friends what their biggest concern is.

GULBRANDSEN: Falling off, actually.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it's quite high.

DARLINGTON: Before the parade, we visited Mandy at a gym where she took samba lessons for eight months, learning to dance in platforms and swing her hips like a pro.

Mandy's husband, an American businessman, was transferred to Rio less than a year ago, and she soon discovered the classes. When her teacher said she was good enough to parade in carnival, she signed up. Then she got a look at the costume.

GULBRANDSEN: Oh my gosh, my parents are going to kill me.

DARLINGTON: Rio's annual carnival is a huge event in Brazil, a million tourists come to town, and the big attraction is the parade.

(on camera): This is the moment that Mandy has been waiting for and training for, for eight months. Up ahead, she's going to head into the samba drone and parade in front of 72,000 people and millions more around the globe.

(voice-over): Shasta Darlington, CNN, Rio de Janeiro.


BURNETT: All right, now let's check in with Anderson with a look at what's coming up on "A.C. 360".

Hey, Anderson.


Yes, we got a fascinating interview tonight. The man who is widely credited with taking the shot that killed Osama bin Laden, shared in great detail how the raid on the compound went down. He's got new information into how, after pulling the trigger, the shooter thought is this the best thing I have ever done or the worse? Phil Bronstein, he did the interview for "Esquire" magazine. I'm going to speak with him on the program tonight.

Also this, take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at that. Look at all that damage, dude.


COOPER: Incredible pictures of a tornado with winds up to 170 miles per hour touched down in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. One of at least 15 tornadoes that swept through Mississippi and Alabama yesterday. Remarkably, nobody was killed. We have those, an up close look at that.

Also, the pope's historic resignation. Of course, day five in the manhunt for the alleged cop killer, and tonight's "Ridiculist" all at the top of the hour, Erin.

BURNETT: All right, Anderson. See you in just a couple of moments.

And now, our fifth story OUTFRONT: Ted Nugent going to Washington.

We just can confirm for you now that tomorrow night, the rocker, gun rights enthusiast, and NRA board member, will be present. He will be a attending President Obama's State of the Union address.

Now, Nugent says he will not bring any of his weapons to the speech. He would be banned.

But our Deb Feyerick did get a good look at Nugent's gun collection when she visited his ranch in Waco. They talked about hunting, guns, they talked about self-defense and they talked about his beloved Second Amendment.


NUGENT: Fire in the hole.


DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Ted Nugent, gun control is putting the second bullet in the same hole as the first.

NUGENT: Two down.

FEYERICK (on camera): A lot of people look at the tragedy at Sandy Hook and they say, something's got to be done.

NUGENT: Agreed, something has to be done.

FEYERICK: And they point to weapons that were used as the cause.

NUGENT: No. It's not the weapons. The weapons have nothing to do with it. These -- again, these weapons are in every pickup truck in Texas.


FEYERICK (voice-over): The same platinum selling rocker is passionate about his music, his family, and his firearms. Nugent is fiercely protective of the rights of law-abiding gun owners and he's invited us to his 300-acre ranch in Waco, Texas, to explain why.

NUGENT: I'll give you some real eye candy in a second here.

FEYERICK: We see Oryx, wild turkey and black buck antelope -- all fair game during hunting season.

Like tens of millions of Americans, Nugent grew up hunting with his dad and brothers. Guns are a family tradition he has avidly passed on to his wife and kids.

(on camera): If somebody close to you were killed by a gunman, would your views on guns change?

NUGENT: Absolutely not. No, I would never turn against this wonderful tool that brings me self defense capabilities and brings me great joy in competition and marksmanship training.

Now, Deb, you climb up this platform.

FEYERICK (voice-over): I'm trying to understand the nature of the hunt.

NUGENT: When I get up here, Deb -- I'm not kidding you, I do 79 concerts, and I get up here, strap myself in, I take a deep breath and I sit here for six hours.

FEYERICK (on camera): So it's meditative to you?

NUGENT: Absolute meditation.

FEYERICK: Have you ever tried yoga?

NUGENT: I think this is the supreme yoga.

All right. Fire in the hole.

FEYERICK (voice-over): Nugent's passion for guns and unyielding belief in the Second Amendment right to bear arms has transformed Nugent into the sometimes fanatical face of the National Rifle Association.

NUGENT: Boy, you are a city girl.

FEYERICK (on camera): I'm such a city girl.

NUGENT: Stand kind of like you're golfing. Just squeeze that trigger.



(voice-over): As he teaches me gun safety, Nugent repeatedly emphasizes that gun violence is caused by criminals, mentally ill and a justice system that paroles felon too soon. He believes limiting guns and ammunition will not stop tragedies like the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary.

(on camera): The argument that was made is that he was allowed to kill as many people as he did because it had multiple bullets and he was able to just keep firing.

NUGENT: Yes, but the rate of fire in these mass shootings, it's not a matter of bullets or fire power. A quail gun in the wrong hands is as deadly as this gun. People have got to come to that reality.

FEYERICK (voice-over): The ability to defend his family is something he takes very, very seriously.

NUGENT: When I'm being assaulted at my home, I and I alone, by any consideration whatsoever, will determine how many bullets I need to protect my family.

FEYERICK: Nugent has been a sheriff's deputy for 30 years and carries a concealed Glock at all times.

(on camera): So I want you and I to solve this problem of gun violence.

NUGENT: There is no gun violence. There is criminal violence and they use an assortment of tools.

FEYERICK: Let's talk about background checks.

NUGENT: I like background checks.

FEYERICK (voice-over): Yes, but not at gun shows or with private sales.

(on camera): A lot of people in law enforcement have to take a psychological exam before they're allowed to carry. So, why not ordinary citizens?

NUGENT: I wrote "Wango Tango" and I carry a gun.

FEYERICK (voice-over): Nugent sticks to his guns literally. For him, the Second Amendment is nonnegotiable.

NUGENT: America, my name is Ted Nugent, and these are all legal guns and I'm going to see that they remain legal because they're all good.


BURNETT: Tattoos are next.


BURNETT: For more than 20 years. Vinnie Myers produced more than 10,000 traditional tattoos. But now, he spends most of his time helping breast cancer survivors. Some of the following images may not be appropriate for all audiences, but we felt they're necessary to tell this important story.


VINNIE MYERS, TATTOO ARTIST: Your nipple reconstruction is about perfect.


MYERS: That's how you want it to be.

MCMILLAN: Absolutely.

MYERS: Unfortunately, all of the other women are walking around with nipples that don't look like that.

BURNETT (voice-over): For many women with breast cancer, breast reconstruction is a big part of the healing process, but the ultimate challenge is how to make it look natural.

MCMILLAN: Oh, yes, it looks good.

MYERS: It's a little bit lighter.

BURNETT: Vinnie Myers specializes in tattooing nipples onto women who have had breast cancer surgery, using precisely mixed pigments, he creates a 3D illusion of the real thing.

MYERS: The standard has been draw a circle and color it in. When they asked me to do it, it's a no-brainer. I mean, you're going to make the nipple look like a nipple. That's the idea, whatever you can do to make it as realistic as possible. It's been surprising to me that that's been overlooked all this time.

BURNETT: Vinnie started tattooing when he was a U.S. Army medic in South Korea back in the 1980s.

MYERS: My friend Richie would get these guys to come get tattooed and we would split the money. It was a fair source of income, you know, at that time.

BURNETT: He liked it so much, he decided to make a career out of it. He opened up a shop in Maryland, tattooing the usual, dragons and crossbones. Never did he dream that one day he would use his love of tattoos to solve a problem that has eluded the world's best surgeons for years.

MYERS: When I had the opportunity to do a portrait of a nipple on this lady, I did a portrait of a nipple, and it kind of changed things in the industry a little bit, I think.

BURNETT: Cancer survivor Susan McMillan, he's also erased some of the taboo around tattoos.

MCMILLAN: My parents always said you will never have a tattoo. Do not come home with a tattoo. I then told my children over my dead body will you have a tattoo. And, of course, I have to laugh because I have the tattoos now. And I love it.


BURNETT: "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now.