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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
An All Star Panel Talks Hollywood, Crime and Politics
Aired February 11, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNY DEUTSCH, GUEST HOST: I'm Donny Deutsch filling in for my good friend, Piers Morgan.
Tonight, nine at 9:00. The things people are talking about right now and the questions we are asking.
The Pope resigns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARCHBISHOP TIMOTHY DOLAN, NEW YORK: I'm not kidding. I was -- I was very startled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: But how old is too old for a Pope, a CEO, or a politician?
Size matters. America is overweight and it's costing us billions. Are we too politically correct?
The man who says he killed bin Laden. Now he's spilling the gory details. Is anything really secret anymore?
Guns in America. Are we even asking the right questions? Does the problem start with child's play?
Plus, do the Grammys glorify bad romance? Is there a double standard when it comes to who Taylor Swift dates?
Also lord of the flies on the high seas. Why would anyone go on a cruise?
This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Good evening. I'm Donny Deutsch, in for Piers. And we're going to do something a little different tonight. Something that we're calling "Nine at 9:00." Nine big questions asked and answered with my all- star panel.
They are Stan Van Gundy, former NBA coach with the Orlando Magic and the Miami Heat and TV and radio analyst for NBC Sports. Faith Salie, contributor to "CBS Sunday Morning" and NPR, Gary V, business and social media expert, and best selling author of "Thank You, The Economy", and Abby Huntsman, host of "HuffPost Live." Welcome, everybody. Let's get right to it. We're going to have some fun tonight. Obviously we know about the Pope resigning, 85 years old. I'd like to kind of turn the issue to how old is old for anything. How old is too old to be a politician. Frank Lautenberg, 89, going to run for office. Is it off limits for Cory Booker to take shots about that. A lot of people thought Joe Paterno, too old to be a coach. We know what happened under his watch. Some people say, he's old. He didn't understand the world we live in.
Abbey, you're the youngest person here.
ABBY HUNTSMAN, HOST, HUFFPOST LIVE: Right.
DEUTSCH: Should there be a criteria -- you know, should we elect a politician who's 89?
HUNTSMAN: I think we need to recognize that we're living longer as Americans -- as people in the world. I mean, I think we should actually commend the Pope for recognizing you know what, I'm too -- I'm in too fragile of a state to do the job that I need to do.
When we talk about Lautenberg, I think it's absolutely fair came, too, to criticize him on his age. I mean he's, what, reaching 90 years old. I think you get to the point where you can no longer do the job. You can get from point A to point B, but beyond that, are you actually delivering for the people? And I think we need to recognize that, you know, you become more fragile the older that you get and we're getting older as people.
DEUTSCH: So, Stan, Cory Booker, I'm running against Frank Lautenberg. Is it fair game for me to say look, I don't think an 89-year-old can do this job? And I hope I'm not insulting anybody out there, but there is a reality to about any job. I couldn't do this job at 89. Couldn't run an ad agency at 89. So do we have to stop being less politically correct and just call it as we see it?
STAN VAN GUNDY, FORMER COACH OF ORLANDO MAGIC, MIAMI HEAT: Well, I think it goes to performance. Not to age. I mean there are some people who may be too young to do certain jobs.
DEUTSCH: Hence, somebody -- I guess my question --
VAN GUNDY: You know, so --
DEUTSCH: Is there any 89-year-old that can be a U.S. senator? Yes or no?
VAN GUNDY: Yes, I think so. I think in this day and age, maybe not 20, 30 years go, but now I think they can. And then I think that there's some people who at 60 may be too old. I think it's all performance based and it's all different for everybody.
GARY VAYNERCHUK, BUSINESS AND SOCIAL MEDIA EXPERT: Donny, I'm going to dominate at 89. I'm making that statement right now.
(LAUGHTER) FAITH SALIE, CONTRIBUTOR, "CBS SUNDAY MORNING," NPR: That's when you're going to peak.
VAYNERCHUK: Don't be -- don't be scared of Vaynerchuk, by the way. I know you want V, but Vaynerchuk is not that scary.
Listen, I'm going to dominate at 89. I have been meeting a lot of people lately in business, and I look at them. I have tons of ambition. And I look at them like great. This guy is 87, and he's killing it. And that inspires me. I think --
HUNTSMAN: That's the mindset, though. You think you can. What if you're 89 and you're not delivering but in your mind you have this ego and you think that you can.
SALIE: But it is about your mindset. If you think you are robust, if you want to stay young. Look, I'm 41, and I just had a baby. When I'm 85, my kids will be, what, like basically my age. I want to be robust. I want to be nimble. I want to be --
DEUTSCH: OK, guys, I know we all want to be that. And that's wonderful and kumbaya, and let's hug. I have a problem with the president of this country being 82 years old. I know Ronald Reagan was 77 at the end. There were a lot of talk about how much he was actually doing in office.
Is there anything wrong with saying that maybe people at an elder age, although they're wonderful and fantastic and useful, there are certain jobs they just can't do? Do you think a president could be --
SALIE: Depends on the person. Look at Betty White. I'd vote for her for Pope.
HUNTSMAN: But Betty White is not president of the United States. To be president of the United States, it takes a lot of energy. I mean, you're traveling around the world. You know, I mean, being Betty White is a very different job.
VAYNERCHUK: I think this is about (INAUDIBLE), right?
VAN GUNDY: But we also get to select. I mean --
VAYNERCHUK: That's right. I'm with you.
VAN GUNDY: You know, the people out there, I don't care what you're doing. So if you're running for political office, the voters get to pick. They get to judge your vitality and whether or not you're qualified.
(CROSSTALK) SALIE: And age isn't the only qualifier.
VAN GUNDY: If you're in business, you've got to be able to do the job.
VAYNERCHUK: Donny, my friend said Chris Sakas said recently that, you know, look at the forefathers, they did all the magic at 30 and 40. Our politicians are too old now. So I mean, there's a lot of debates in that. There was plenty of people that didn't think that you could be doing what you're doing right now 40 or 50 years ago. So I mean the game changes all the time.
DEUTSCH: Look, I'm a firm believer, I have little kids. I started a new career, as selfishly we all want to stay young. Look, we've got these little blue pills now, I hear.
DEUTSCH: I'm not quite sure what they do but I hear they keep you young in a lot of ways.
HUNTSMAN: I can tell you, people, I don't know you're talking about.
DEUTSCH: I guess -- and we're going to get to some weight issues later in the segment. We are just a little politically correct. I thought it was great the Pope did that, whereas I think there's a lot of coaches, a lot of these storied coaches out there who weren't really coaching anymore but we can't ask them to step down because they're too old. And --
VAYNERCHUK: No. We don't ask them to step down because they're selling tickets or making money happen.
VAN GUNDY: Or not getting the job done, not winning games, not performing the job well enough.
SALIE: It's about getting the job done.
VAN GUNDY: And I think it works at the other end of the spectrum, too. I mean, there are some people would say certain people who are too young to do certain jobs, don't have enough experience but there's people that can jump right in and do it.
DEUTSCH: When do we take somebody's driver's license away?
VAN GUNDY: When they can't drive.
SALIE: I mean, they take the test, right? There's a test -- no, granted there are a bunch of people who can't see over the steering wheel who are going --
HUNTSMAN: But that's the same problem. They have this ego of, I don't want my license taken away. I'm still -- I'm fine, I can still drive a car.
VAYNERCHUK: And so if they can perform and make a left turn, good.
VAN GUNDY: There you go.
VAYNERCHUK: Awesome. If you're 147, go crash it, fine.
DEUTSCH: I'm the bad guy --
VAN GUNDY: Yes, I was in New York City -- I'm the only one here not from New York. I was in New York City today, there's a lot of people in their 30s and 40s who can't drive.
DEUTSCH: Yes. OK. Well said. All right. Number one movie this weekend, Melissa McCarthy, fantastic, brilliant comedian. Love her. Rex Reed last week got into a lot of trouble because he called her a hippo. Some very --
DEUTSCH: Tractor-sized. And it brings up another interesting discussion about political correctness, and also going back to Christie last week when a former White House physician said he might not be healthy enough to be in office. He could die in office.
SALIE: To which he said shut up in his eloquent way.
DEUTSCH: OK. Yes, he did.
SALIE: And that's a whole another conversation.
DEUTSCH: Yes, it is, but obesity in this country, by anybody's measure, if you solve that, you solve the entire health care problem. You basically solve the economy. So do we not start? Is it OK to call people out for being overweight?
SALIE: Yes. Yes.
DEUTSCH: Somebody --
HUNTSMAN: I don't agree.
VAN GUNDY: No, I don't agree.
HUNTSMAN: I don't agree.
SALIE: Yes -- what do you mean you don't agree? Get in --
SALIE: President Obama was criticized for being a smoker. If you are fat, it is the number one preventable cause of death in the United States.
HUNTSMAN: That's fine --
SALIE: If you're an elected official like Chris Christie, it is irresponsible, and he called the doctor who was concerned about his health irresponsible because it raised some fear in his son. He has a 12-year-old son, he's irresponsible for being that kind of a role model.
HUNTSMAN: That's fine. We can have that conversation separately. This was the number one movie at the box office. So to judge this movie based on her weight alone, I think that's not right.
DEUTSCH: No. No. The question I'm asking is, it's not judging the movie. It's like --
HUNTSMAN: But that's what this critic did. She was basing the movie on that. But --
DEUTSCH: I'm shifting off that and saying is it -- whether it's the case of Chris Christie, or anybody else, when somebody is overweight, obviously, they're hurting themselves. It is a problem that is hurting our nation. So -
HUNTSMAN: But I think they recognize that. I don't think it's our place. I think Melissa McCarthy would be the first to tell you I'm overweight. Chris Christie has mentioned it a number of times. I'm overweight.
DEUTSCH: But you're --
VAYNERCHUK: Let me go in a different direction, saying it's hurting our country, which I would then say there's a lot of things hurting our country.
SALIE: No, but you're asking, is it OK?
VAYNERCHUK: The people eating more Big Macs isn't necessarily driving us to --
VAN GUNDY: Well, and there's also a difference between --
VAYNERCHUK: It's part of being --
VAN GUNDY: Gary, addressing the issue --
VAN GUNDY: -- of obesity and going at somebody personally for their weight.
VAYNERCHUK: I totally agree.
VAN GUNDY: Now I know that's why I'm here today, to discuss this issue.
VAN GUNDY: The rest of you all look good. I can -- I can talk about this more directly. I know that's why I'm here. But we can talk about the issue of obesity, and I would totally agree. People who are overweight, look, it's not like I don't have mirrors in my house. I know the way I look.
DEUTSCH: You're a handsome guy.
VAN GUNDY: And I know what I'm supposed to do. I just don't do it.
SALIE: Why? Why don't you do it?
VAN GUNDY: Well, the --
VAYNERCHUK: The thing is, we don't do a ton of things. There are a ton of things you don't do. Because --
SALIE: I do things that keep me healthful and healthy.
VAYNERCHUK: And the other things that I'm sure we could critique and this is something that's outwardly obvious. We all have strengths and weaknesses based on our DNA, and we're picking on certain things --
SALIE: No, no, no. Some people aren't fat just because of their DNA.
HUNTSMAN: I think that's a great question, though. I mean, you know you have to lose weight, so that question of, then why don't you do it, I mean --
DEUTSCH: One at a time. Stan. Stan.
VAN GUNDY: I'll tell you why don't you. But it's not all as easy as just choice. There's a book out there "Fat Chance." I wish I could remember the author, but a lot of this is genetic. I'm not saying mine is. But for a lot of these people it's genetic.
VAYNERCHUK: Of course it is. VAN GUNDY: If they can get down to as far as 500 calories a day and still be putting on weight. There's a lot of things going on. We need to focus also more on health --
VAN GUNDY: And just on the weight.
SALIE: Let's take on that.
VAN GUNDY: You know because --
VAYNERCHUK: Let's talk about people who do 500 calories, some people are born lucky, you -- I mean --
SALIE: I'm not born lucky. I work my ass off every day.
VAYNERCHUK: Guess what, I'm going --
SALIE: And I'm very careful.
VAYNERCHUK: I don't do crap and I look phenomenal.
VAN GUNDY: Yes, you do.
DEUTSCH: I think it come to the question of -- it's very easy to say of course it's not a lot of people's fault. Some people genetically are predisposed. There are people --
VAYNERCHUK: There's plenty that are.
DEUTSCH: But there are a lot of people just say, I don't care. I'm going to eat some Big Mac.
SALIE: Like Sandy said, he knows what he should do, he doesn't.
DEUTSCH: Right. It's no different than second hand smoke in a strange way, that they are actually hurting the rest of us because, look, I would rather eat, also, and I choose not to eat for a lot of reasons but if everybody just said, screw it, I don't care, we're out of business as a country. There is a reality here --
VAYNERCHUK: The guys and gals that work down the street have carried interest. That hurts us.
VAYNERCHUK: There's people that --
DEUTSCH: But we can't -- you have a point. But we can't then -- we can't target anything then. If the answer -- if then your argument would be -- VAYNERCHUK: I respect that. No, no, I don't -- listen.
HUNTSMAN: No, I think -- I think you should absolutely have the conversation, whether it's with Chris Christie or Melissa McCarthy.
DEUTSCH: I agree. I agree.
HUNTSMAN: But judging their performance as a governor, as an actress, that's a different conversation.
VAYNERCHUK: Bonkers. It's bonkers.
HUNTSMAN: But I think addressing the weight issue is absolutely on the table.
DEUTSCH: There is one issue about -- I mean, we're judging -- the reality is that is an office that takes tremendous, tremendous physical toll, and I want to know my president is going to be there for eight years.
HUNTSMAN: But he's governor now.
VAN GUNDY: But you get to choose.
DEUTSCH: OK. That's -- what I'm just saying --
HUNTSMAN: He's governor now.
VAN GUNDY: (INAUDIBLE) want to base your vote on that.
VAYNERCHUK: McCain was too old. Obama would be such -- there are people that told me that Obama is such an assassination target, that that's a bad reason to vote for him.
DEUTSCH: Clearly -- guys, clearly, you can't generalize and make these things.
VAYNERCHUK: Of course.
DEUTSCH: I think we should be open to be able to bring up some real issues that are issues whether --
SALIE: Obesity is a massive epidemic.
SALIE: And if we -- if we aren't able to talk about it as Americans then --
(CROSSTALK) DEUTSCH: Guys, we have to go.
VAN GUNDY: We can talk about it like I was --
DEUTSCH: We're going to take a break here.
VAN GUNDY: We can talk about it by calling somebody --
DEUTSCH: Guys, guys, break -- break time.
This is a feisty group.
Still ahead, lord of the flies meets a carnival cruise. Why do people go on cruises anymore?
But when we come back, the man who says he killed bin Laden tells all. What happened to top secrets? Why can't anybody keep a secret anymore about anything?
And do our heroes deserve more, when we get back?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're spending billions of dollars. We're still no closer to defeating our enemies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty detainees recognize that photo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No birth certificate, no cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your guy is a ghost.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hand out of your pocket. Do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: That was from the Oscar-nominated "Zero Dark Thirty." The film is fictionized, but now the Navy SEAL who says he shot bin Laden is telling his story. Back with me now to talk about secrets in the age of Twitter and Facebook, social media guru Gary Vaynerchck, Faith Sale of NPR and CBS Sunday Morning News. Former NBA coach Stan Vangundy and Abby Huntsman of HuffPost Live.
Stan, let me start with you. First of all, do you have any promise whatsoever that this SEAL came out and told this story?
STAN VAN GUNDY, FORMER COACH OF ORLANDO MAGIC AND MIAMI HEAT: Well, we're getting into dangerous stuff when we start giving away secrets and things like that, but I think what it goes to is these guys aren't treated well when they come home. So they're trying to find a way to make a name for themselves and figure out a way to make their way in the world when they're back. We're not doing a whole lot to help them. ABBY HUNTSMAN, HOST, HUFFPOST LIVE: I think there are two different issues we're talking about. Obviously, we need to do everything we can for our brave men and women.
DEUTSCH: Let's stay on as far as this is a Navy SEAL. In Brokaw's Greatest Generation, none of these guys are talking. This guy to me is a hero with a capital H. I mean, we don't have to say more than that.
HUNTSMAN: But with Brokaw's Greatest Generation, there wasn't tweeting, wasn't social media.
DEUTSCH: Doesn't he have a right? He didn't name his name. He told a story - to come out and tell a story.
HUNTSMAN: I think when you sign up to serve your country, there are things you sign up for. One of those is doing missions that are classified. For the safety of future missions, for the safety of Americans, for the safety of our allies abroad who work with us and know things will be kept classified. And so in this sort of situation, I think he's wrong to speak out about it. I think that's when he's profiting off - I mean, the taxpayers are paying for this at the end of the day.
DEUTSCH: I want to go to Gary, our social media guy. You basically have kids being brought up today where everything is documented. There's nothing secret anymore. So, can we blame somebody who is brought up in this generation -- can we expect anybody anywhere in any capacity to keep anything private anymore?
GARY VAYNERCHUK, SOCIAL MEDIA GURU: I got to be honest with you, I think Stan nailed this one. I think the competition on the back end forced this guy into a scenario where they're looking for other outs. I think we need to take care of some - especially this group. We herald them at the highest level. I was talking about in business, Navy SEALs because it's these few individuals that can move the needle. I think this is more compensation.
This guy didn't grow up - listen. The Internet and social media is new. This guy is a little older. He didn't grow up in high school with Snap Chat and Pinterest. This is not a product of this new generation. So I think further down the line, yes, I think privacy is more dead than people think --
HUNTSMAN: And he wouldn't have leaked anything had information not already come out from the president, from "Zero Dark Thirty."
FAITH SALE, CONTRIBUTOR, CBS SUNDAY MORNING & NPR: We're not talking about the guy who wrote the book.
VAN GUNDY: But he's watching them make money and profits from this. He's going to get nothing from it? SALE: This man doesn't get a pension. He's the one who has bullets in his head and doesn't get health insurance.
Hold on. Let's go back to the secrecy thing. The mission was secret when it was supposed to be secret. That guy was killed. This guy shot him with three bullets in the head. Now, the interview this man has given to Esquire reveals details that are already in an Oscar- nominated film and already in somebody else's book. And this man revealed what he revealed in order to bridge this very, very sad military civilian gap where only one percent of us --
DEUTSCH: By the way, as far as I'm concerned, this guy put a bullet in Osama bin Laden's head. He can do whatever the hell he wants, as far as I'm concerned.
HUNTSMAN: But he described in detail, when he talked about the dogs they used. One mission - but these are classified details.
VAN GUNDY: Yes, they do things similarly. I would agree on that with Abby. You're talking about the way we go about our business in the military.
DEUTSCH: Still, listen, the bad guys knew what dogs we used. I mean, once it happens and it's executed, it's out there. We're on to the new dogs. We're on Dogs 2.0.
HUNTSMAN: I don't agree with that. I don't. I think there are certain things that are classified for a reason.
SALE: I have a feeling there's a lot of stuff going on with our government right now that we don't know about, if that makes you all feel a lot better.
HUNTSMAN: That's for a reason.
SALE: Right. And talking about it afterwards --
HUNTSMAN: You could give this information ten years from now, 20 years from now. But I feel like we're still at war.
DEUTSCH: I personally have no issue. But let's go to a bigger issue as far as, this hero, he comes back, getting $2,000 a month in pension.
SALE: Not anymore.
DEUTSCH: -- excuse me. Lost his health care. So, what do we do? What do we do with these guys? I mean, everyone says, oh, it's terrible. What do we do?
HUNTSMAN: You know what? This is great time to bring up sequestration. Because this was what, the default plan. That's going to give across the board cuts, it's going to hit these guys even more. And that's the biggest challenge that our country is facing.
DEUTSCH: But even -- by the way, without that, it's not getting the job done.
HUNTSMAN: Without that - I'm just bringing that out there. That's where our country is today.
DEUTSCH: Gary, you know the answer. We need a brand to step up.
VAYNERCHUK: I'll tell you the answer. It's very simple: private enterprise.
DEUTSCH: People don't like to talk about it, but there are quotas for women, for minorities, for disabled. Why shouldn't there be quotas in the military? I would sign up tomorrow for the Deutsch Advertising Agency to hire x-percent of people, veterans for two reasons. Number one, it's the recognize thing to do, but number two, they'll make fantastic employees. If you think what people go through in military training.
DEUTSCH: Warren Buffet, Jamie Dimond, all the CEOs, why don't they just raise their hands?
VAN GUNDY: What really is annoying is the hypocrisy of our politicians that stand up and praise these guys to no end. They're the best of the best in our generation. But then they do nothing policy-wise to help these people. How can a guy who was on Navy SEAL for 16 years have no pension? The health care for our veterans is terrible. Our VA hospitals are in disrepair. It's embarrassing.
SALE: (INAUDIBLE) he's worth more to his family dead than alive.
DEUTSCH: We have to take a break. Still ahead, are we kidding ourselves on gun control? Does the problem go back to child's play?
And when we come back, bad romance, bad example. Are Rihanna and Taylor Swift getting a bum rap for their dating choices?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER (singing): He's like I still love you. And I'm like, I'm sorry I'm busy opening up the grammys and we're never getting back together, like ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP) DEUTSCH: Taylor Swift at last night' Grammys apparently taking a dig at one of her exes. One Direction's Harry Styles back with me now. Now with me now, questions of the day and answered by our social media guru, Gary Vaynerchuk, CBS Sunday Morning contributor Faith Sale, former NBA coach Stan Van Gundy and HuffPost Live's Abby Huntsman.
All right. Grammys last night. Before we get to Taylor Swift, Chris and Rihanna were all snuggly, snuggly, kissy kissy. It was all fuzzy.
SALE: She might have been wearing an engagement ring.
DEUTSCH: Before we get to that, I want to go back to three years ago. Horrible story we know what happened with Chris and Rihanna and the physical abuse.
I want to start with the women. I want to over here. Does she have -- does she have -- I'm sorry, this is from three years ago, this is obviously not current. Very, very horrible story from TMZ. Does a woman in the public eye have an obligation to make a statement to her fans, to young women who follower, say this is not okay?
SALE: Yes, Rihanna, if she doesn't want to be a road model, then she shouldn't have her own clothing line, which she does. She shouldn't have a perfume, which she does. She shouldn't be tweeting pictures of herself in Chris Brown's bed to her fans. Yes, she does. She's a horrible role model, and whether she wants to be or not, she is. And she's a brand. And she's made herself a brand.
DEUTSCH: Abby, how about that? She says, look, I'm 24. I made a mistake. This is my love life. I'm a human being, I'm a young kid.
HUNTSMAN: No, I agree with what you're saying. She sends out Instagram photos of herself, pretty much naked with Chris Brown, and she has a number of young girls, my younger sisters included, that live her. So, she is a role model to so many.
But at the same time, we have to recognize they're human as well, right? The reminds me of the Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown situation where everyone from the outside could see the writing on the wall. This is a bad situation. And one you also have to feel for. She clearly doesn't recognize herself.
Love can do crazy things. On one side, I say she's a role model, on the other side, it's like you know what? Love is crazy. And we have to remember that we're all --
VAYNERCHUK: Donny, Stan's world (ph) actually nailed this. Charles Barkley addressed this a long time ago. And he drilled it. The bottom line is, there's part of this equation that we have to look at parents. You know, she's a human being. And you know what? This is a tough situation.
There's a couple things going on. Can somebody make a mistake and reform from it? Chris Brown is like the number one evil human being in the world. Did you see, he was the only one not standing for Ocean when he got his award?
HUNTSMAN: Oh yeah, but that's the problem -
SALE: -- talk about it. When a man beats you, you don't go back to him.
VAN GRUNDY: Still, what's going on goes to part of the problem, is the way we view men and women. So we're sitting here talking about what Rihanna has done wrong. We haven't even talked about what Bobby Brown did wrong. So, we have a problem with Rihanna, what she's doing, and not with what Bobby Brown did?
DEUTSCH: Chris brown.
VAN GRUNDY: Chris Brown. Wrong Brown. Wrong Brown. I'm not a great culture guy.
DEUTSCH: If you hit a woman, you're a coward. You're the lowest form. I mean, that's a simple one to say.
I guess a lot of times women who are victims of domestic violence, sometimes their response is, well, I have nowhere to go. Or I can't afford it.
In this instance, this is - Abby, this is a woman who clearly has people around her, clearly has resources. And I do think she has an obligation.
HUNTSMAN: I agree.
DEUTSCH: I think you are taking money from the public. You are, as you said, exploiting the public on your behalf. And shame on you if because -- once again, three years ago, she came out and said if I can keep one girl from getting killed, I can do that.
SALE: P.S. Have you seen her? It's not like her dating options are limited. She's stunning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if I was that kid's father.
SALE: It's not just that she said it's my mistake, I get to own it. It's not just that she and Chris Brown are, like, stealth-snuggling. She's putting it out there, almost flaunting it.
HUNTSMAN: It reminds me of a 12-year-old little girl where the parents tell them, you can't date that guy, but just to spite them, they just keep dating them. Like, the media keeps talking about them, saying is she crazy? And part of her is like, I just want to keep dating him to get the attention as well. DEUTSCH: Well, they break up - it's like Demi Moore. How much have you heard about Demi Moore lately?
HUNTSMAN: Yes, not anything.
SALE: They make the headlines, and they know that. That's why they sent out the Instagrams --
DEUTCH: I just -- as a dad that has young germ s girls, it makes my stomach turn.
HUNTSMAN: That's why I'm saying, you need to feel sorry for her at the end of the day.
DEUTSCH: OK. Taylor Swift. Now when a young guy in Hollywood has a lot of conquests, you know, a lot of women. You know, John Mayer has been with many women, the media celebrates him.
SALE: No, they don't. He gets crucified for what he did.
DEUTSCH: No, no, no. When I say the media celebrates it, people at home go, oh, John Mayer. He's -
VAN GRUNDY: -- Oh, no! It's not me! Men do, yes.
DEUTSCH: Let me finish.
VAYNERCHUK: I don't. Not me. Men do, yes.
DEUTSCH: Let me finish. Now with her, she's taken a lot of heat, but my attitude is she's a young girl. She's having a great time. What's the problem?
SALIE: I don't think she's having a great time. Have you heard her songs?
DEUTSCH: Who says she's sleeping around, anyway?
HUNTSMAN: This is the whole point. She wouldn't have a career. She -- all of her lyrics come from her boyfriends that last about a week. I mean, of course, I think she wants to keep breaking up with these guys so she has stuff to write about. If she didn't have that, the only thing she would have to write about. If she didn't have it, the only thing she'd be able to write about is her cat named Meredith. I mean, that's all she would have in her life. So this is part of her career.
SALIE: Did you say her cat named Meredith? It's so hard to find something to rhyme with Meredith. That's a problem.
DEUTSCH: Well, how many celebrities do we have today that their only raison d'etre is their personal life? I mean basically ever reality star. I mean, Lindsay Lohan, would we be talking about her if not for her hijinx?
HUNTSMAN: When I was watching the Grammys last night, I was looking around at the guys saying who is her next target, because that's just how you view her. It's just from one to the next. Am I wrong?
SALIE: But she does -- when you say that, it makes her sound like a man eater. And yet she seems far more innocent than that. She keeps getting hurt.
VAYNERCHUK: She has game. Let's respect her game. She's dominating out there. I give her mad props.
VAN GUNDY: What is wrong with a young woman dating a lot of guys?
VAN GUNDY: I don't want my daughters, even at that age, necessarily getting into a serious relationship. I have to be with one man the rest of my life at that time? I would like them to date a lot of people.
VAN GUNDY: No, I didn't say that. You don't know that she's doing that.
HUNTSMAN: My question is why is nothing sticking? What is hidden beneath it all.
DEUTSCH: How old is she?
HUNTSMAN: She's like 23. I think one day all of these guys are going to write a tell-all book and she's not going to know what to do with herself.
SALIE: She needs a little time alone.
VAYNERCHUK: A double standard, which is why I made the statement that I made. I gave a guy --
DEUTSCH: Still ahead, cruise to nowhere, 1,000 people stranded at sea. Sound like fun to you?
And coming up, playing with fire. We'll put toy guns in the spotlight.
DEUTSCH: There's been a lot of talk about guns here and of course America. But are we missing the point? Does America's obsession go back to child's play? Back with me now for nine to nine, former NBA coach Stan Van Gundy, Faith Salie, NPR contributor, Gary Vaynerchuk, CEO of 'Vayner Media, and Abby Huntsman of HuffPost Life.
OK, it's toy time. I just want to hold up -- this is from Nerf. And full disclosure, Gary, I know your company does some work for Nerf. These are guns that shoot, of course, Nerf things. But in the case of this, this is actually an ammo vest with magazine clips, I mean, the very thing that we are obviously as a nation so heatedly discussing.
I want to ask around the table, you have an eight-month-old boy, are you going to let your boy play with guns? Are we missing it? Are we not getting it, nipping it in the bud?
SALIE: No, when I was a kid, my parents wouldn't even let us have water guns. I intend to do the same thing. When he is potty trained, I won't even let him hold his penis in an aggressive way, Donny.
HUNTSMAN: Does this say what age this is for? I'm really curious.
VAYNERCHUK: We can't have it both ways, right. We talk about the greatest generation. Well, guess what? Their biggest hero was John Wayne, and he was shooting everybody directly in the face. The bottom line is that we're getting hypersensitive to everything. Your parents not having water guns, honestly, I threw up in my mouth a little bit about that. Not in a bad way, but in a like I'm stunned. It's water guns.
SALIE: It's a gun. There are better ways to play.
VAYNERCHUK: Stan, help me. You got my back.
VAN GUNDY: I just don't think this is the issue. I think we've got real issues with gun control. We have real issues with mental health. I think this is a distraction.
HUNTSMAN: I think this is part of it. I mean, I think there's a happy medium between a water gun and like the videos that we're seeing people play together. But no one is really talk about, do you remember Jim Brady who was the press secretary who got shot in the head and was partially paralyzed. And we saw the ads that just came out with Gabby Giffords. And it reminds me a lot of the Brady law that got done, but still we're here today.
And so it just reminds me, like, how much can we actually get done on Capitol Hill? I feel like we're probably, if I had to guess, not going to end up getting background checks done, right?
VAN GUNDY: I don't even know about that.
HUNTSMAN: It's not even a complete conversation without mental health. So you think more broadly, we have to think mental health.
DEUTSCH: It's everything. But I just want to start here and throw one theory that's interesting. The tobacco industry is barred from running ads, billboards near schools. They had to kill Joe Camel because he was a cartoon character.
VAYNERCHUK: Toys have the same issue, Donny.
DEUTSCH: It's all of the above, though.
VAYNERCHUK: They have the same issue.
DEUTSCH: It's all of the above. Why not -- if you would have said to me early on, a water gun, I'd go stop it. But then when I actually saw this, that literally has this multi-magazine --
SALIE: That's the problem right here.
SALIE: -- and this is OK and this is fun.
VAN GUNDY: Wait a minute, so our military people can't be our heroes? Because when we were kids, we grew up with -- that's what military people do, too.
HUNTSMAN: Military people are people's heroes because they hold guns?
VAN GUNDY: In large part their job -- we talked about the hero before that killed Osama bin Laden. He didn't kill him throwing a Nerf ball at him.
DEUTSCH: I have no problem with toy guns. This is just a little crazy. But State of the Union tomorrow night. Obviously Obama is going to talk a great deal about gun control.
First off -- and Gary, I want to throw this to you at the media guy. Does State of the Union matter anymore? Every day, there's a State of the Union. Used to be, 30, 40, 50 years ago -- so are they -- and basically, Gallup shows that before and after, there's really never a shift. There's maybe a three-point shift. Do they even matter anymore?
VAYNERCHUK: No. There will be more people entertained by the Tweeting done during the State of the Union than the actual State of the Union. The world of media has changed. Nowhere close. HUNTSMAN: I think it is important. What's going to be most important is, A, what he focuses on. I think jobs needs to be his priority. But the tone. You know, is he going to be more about compromise? I think that's what I'm personally hoping for.
HUNTSMAN: He's no longer campaigning. He's now the president of the United States for the next four years.
SALIE: It better matter because we're not going to be seeing the "Bachelor" or "Smash" at the time it's airing. It does matter. First, it's fascinating political these. It always is. When you see which side claps for which thing he says -- look, it seems like we're finally reaching bipartisan agreement on immigration, which is very exciting to have bipartisan anything.
If both Republicans and Democrats are clapping about what Obama has to say about immigration --
DEUTSCH: Speaking of bipartisan, it's going to be interesting to see if his tone -- a lot of people are saying on the left that he's going to grab the mantel and be very, very aggressive. I think if he's smart and also if Marco Rubio, in his rebuttal is smart -- and they both can show we're moving a little bit, the country is ready for that.
The country is ready for a little hands across. And I hope, as an Obama guy, that he doesn't come out punching aggressively, that he's showing restraint. He is in power now and he does have the mojo now. Use it.
HUNTSMAN: Look, as president, you want to leave the country better than when it started, right? He's caring about his legacy. The Democrats are in the driver seat. They know that if nothing gets done, they still look the good guys, because the Republicans are to blame. But beyond that, he's not going to have a legacy if nothing gets passed.
DEUTSCH: Guys, I want to shift for a second because I don't want to run out of time here. We have obviously this manhunt, obviously, this horrible story, this L.A. cop being hunted down. We have this horrible story last week about the man that put the kid in the bunker. Thank God we got that kid out. The sniper who was killed. Obviously, crazies everywhere.
And obviously, you can't put a net around everything. You can't -- but what can we do more now, Stan, across the board, early on, to start to detect some of the mental problems in this country, the mental -- horrible health situation in the country so we don't get to this point?
VAN GUNDY: Well, there's a big stigma on mental health, first of all. You just started by calling them crazies. We don't think of --
DEUTSCH: By the way, those people were crazies. I'm sorry.
VAN GUNDY: OK, understood. But we don't focus on it as an illness. It's different. Like somebody has cancer, there's no stigma on that. We want to help them.
People who have mental health problems, we don't want to help them. We look at them as crazy. Our health care system right now, most health plans are inadequate in terms of mental health. We don't spend the money on research in mental health that we do on diseases like cancer.
We as a nation are not serious about mental health.
DEUTSCH: I want to ask everybody to answer yes or no to this question: your kids are tested in school for, you know, smallpox, other things. If they had a technology now that early on could test children for various mental disorders, would you say that's invasive or OK to do?
VAYNERCHUK: Oh my God, I'm investing in that company.
VAN GUNDY: That would be great. And they could find out, if we would spend some more money on research in those areas like we have. Look, a lot of things, breast cancer, we have made tremendous inroads because we have spent the money on it. We're not serious about mental health.
HUNTSMAN: When it comes to mental health, it's all local. The first thing to go with states' money is mental health. It's going to go to education. So we need to make it more of a priority --
VAYNERCHUK: One last point, we're glorifying the bad. Look at what we're talking about all night. When are we going to start talking about the awesome?
DEUTSCH: All right guys, we got to take a break here. When we come back, Amanda Knox gets ready to tell all to Diane Sawyer. Is there anything she can say that could change your mind about h what happened the night her roommate died?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUE PATERNO, WIFE OF JOE PATERNO: -- came because of what we learned later. In 2001, it isn't a question. If he knew what he knew, if he knew in 2001, what he then learned in 2011, yes, he would do more. Anyone would. But we didn't have that benefit because we didn't know anything. Do I wish it hadn't happened? Absolutely. I'm horrified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEUTSCH: Of course, that's Sue Paterno, widow of the late Joe Paterno, talking to Katie Couric. Back with me now, my all-star panel, social media girl Gary Vaynerchuk, CBS morning contributor Faith Salie, former NBC coach Stan Van Gundy, and HuffPost Live's Abby Huntsman.
OK. In addition to that, recently, we have Amanda Knox, who wrote a book to capitalize on her story, called "Waiting to be Heard." Casey Anthony is said to be writing her biography. I guess -- I want to start with you Gary, kind of you're a social media guy. Can people who lost in the court of public opinion -- can they ever get it back? Are these people just wasting their time?
VAYNERCHUK: Of course, they can get it back. We have seen this over and over and over again. I mean, people have lost in public arenas and have gotten it back. The come back story, that's what we love.
DEUTSCH: In criminal cases -- even in a case -- I want to talk about O.J. I want to talk about Lance Armstrong. I think in the case of the people that I mentioned, once --
DEUTSCH: Yeah, once people make their decision, if anything, Abby, doesn't it backfire on them because now you look at them and go, they're just cashing in?
HUNTSMAN: For the most part, but I think Joe Paterno is different than like a Casey Anthony because Joe Paterno has so much good will to stand on. I think that he was -- he was beloved by so many before this, where you look at a Casey Anthony, there's really no love there.
VAYNERCHUK: You have to actually put this in context. There's murder. There's cheating. There's a lot of other things. If we don't put this into context, we can't --
DEUTSCH: By the way, there are pretty serious things when you talk about in the case of murder. And then of course, Joe Paterno, under his watch, this horrible abuse against children.
VAN GUNDY: But there's still a difference in severity. I mean, I abhor the fact that Joe Paterno didn't do more, turning someone in, but he didn't commit the acts himself. And like Abby said, he has a lot of other good things that he's done.
All we know of Amanda Knox -- she may have done a lot of great things. All we know of her is that she may have killed her roommate. All we know about Casey Anthony is her baby is dead.
DEUTSCH: She was acquitted, by the way. Let me just say that.
HUNTSMAN: She was. But the court of public opinion there, I mean, we followed this so closely. Where Amanda Knox, it was done in Italy. There were some things that I think we still didn't follow as closely. With Casey Anthony, we followed it every step of the way. We made our decision before the court made their decision. The court of the people's decision is different. I think we've already made that decision.
DEUTSCH: Let's take a Casey Anthony, for instance, a horrible story. Is there any chance that we can self-correct as a society and people just say -- I have no interest in watching her or Amanda Knox at this point. Maybe I'm a little naive, maybe. Is there a time and place where we all as a country just go like enough? Or am I just being naive?
VAN GUNDY: That's what Gary was talking about. Number one, we're drawn to the negative. And we seem to be drawn to the absolute lowest common denominator in society. Those are the stories we get really interested in.
VAYNERCHUK: This is where the media has sold the negative. And as we now get into a place where there's more channels, more places to consume, we're going to see a tide change. I mean, we've only had a certain amount of gatekeepers that could pound the airwaves like we are right now and telling a certain story. And we decide the subject matters.
Meanwhile, there's a ton of conversation going on in real time. Other case makers that are growing up on these new platforms. As we disburse and don't actually be able to drive each agenda that the media wants to, you're going to see --
DEUTSCH: -- who are now growing up and seem to be even more salacious in their appetite for this kind of stuff. But on the flip side, you're saying they have access also to all these wonderful feel good stories.
DEUTSCH: But it's not playing back in the media.
HUNTSMAN: You know what we want? We want transparency in everything. In these cases like a Casey Anthony or Amanda Knox, we want to read. We want to hear about the unknown. Even when we talk -- we started this conversation tonight about the Navy SEALS. We want to hear about things that we don't already know.
DEUTSCH: I want to hear about the Navy SEAL. I don't want to hear about Casey Anthony.
When we come back, this ain't no Love Boat. Survival of the fittest on the high seas. And has Apple jumped the shark and lost its cool?
DEUTSCH: before we go -- and that's the name of this segment -- I want to get to a couple more things like the Lord of the Flies cruise, which we are learning tonight will be docking somewhere soon in Mobile, Alabama. All right, guys, let me get everybody up to speed on this. This is another cruise ship gone bad.
This is 4,000 people on this. It's stuck at sea. The toilets are backed up. There's no running water, spoiled food. Stan, why would anybody go on a cruise today?
HUNTSMAN: Doesn't he look like a cruise guy?
SALIE: I just went on one.
VAN GUNDY: Number one, I get seasick. And number two, I don't want to be crammed in that small a place with that many people to begin with.
SALIE: I just went on a cruise. You have the right idea. Midnight chocolate buffet is the number one reason --
DEUTSCH: It's a very odd thing to do. Why would you go on a cruise.
SALIE: I was actually a little embarrassed about it. Yes, because usually I go to Patagonia or Morocco or Machu Picchu . But I have a baby. And I wanted to be with my dad. My dad doesn't like to walk a lot and my baby can't walk. It was just really convenient. And there's Purell everywhere.
VAYNERCHUK: This show is like across. And it's awesome. We now all love each other. I love the idea. It's funny. It's a good story.
HUNTSMAN: We still have the air --
VAYNERCHUK: We're going to get a free cruise out of it.
DEUTSCH: There's been a lot of terrible stories about cruises.
DEUTSCH: Gary, one second. Whether it's people disappearing -- I guess, unless, to your point with your dad, where it's hard to get around, I would find it hard pressed to say I want to go to a place where I'm stuck, I can't get out.
HUNTSMAN: This is my worst nightmare. I will admit I'm claustrophobic. So there's nothing worse for me than to be stuck on a cruise ship without air, without running water. I would feel like you can't breathe.
(CROSS TALK) SALIE: Have you ever been on a cruise?
VAYNERCHUK: Three times. And I love it. Love it. I'm all in.
HUNTSMAN: There's stories like this all the time, where diseases break out, people are dying. Why do people -- I understand where you're coming from. You have a baby.
HUNTSMAN: For the most part, why would anyone go on a cruise.
DEUTSCH: Guys, I want to shift gears. Gary, we'll be both going on -- OK, Samsung is getting more popular. Apple is waning. The stock is dropping. Question, has Apple jumped the shark a little bit, in the sense that as a marketer, at some point can you not be cool anymore, almost axiomatically? And I'm going to ask Gary, because of your expertise. Has Samsung now taken the lead?
VAYNERCHUK: Not Samsung. But yes, Apple is a vulnerable moment. They've lost the leading guy. And it's been a long run. We do this all the time. We build up -- Microsoft was really cool a while ago. It's absolutely -- you know, Android's a very important mobile platform. But Apple's still got a couple tricks. It's definitely not Samsung, with all do respect.
SALIE: But in Asia, though, right? You have to remember, Apple wasn't allowed in China, for example, for a long time. Whereas Samsung, that's where it started.
VAN GUNDY: We have the Blackberries. But cool and technology, those are my two areas. I'm an expert in both of those.
DEUTSCH: In fashion. I actually think by nature, what's interesting -- it's almost ironic that this device and technology overall. Which is the great, you know, kind of individual empowerment -- we've all subscribed and kind of -- we have one brand that's dominated this, that --
VAYNERCHUK: Android has a bigger piece of the market.
DEUTSCH: I'm talking about overall technology.
VAYNERCHUK: It's going to run its course. We always do this. It's going to run its course. And then one day we're going to have Apple products as a retro move.
HUNTSMAN: No one can compete with Apple. Everything is integrated together.
DEUTSCH: Guys, does everybody have a problem when you're out to dinner and everybody's going like this?
VAYNERCHUK: No, it's fine.
DEUTSCH: OK, guys. That is all for us tonight. I want to thank my all-star panel, Gary Vaynerchuk, Faith Salie, Stan Van Gundy and Abby Huntsman. And I want to thank Piers for letting me back in the studio again.
Anderson Cooper starts right now.