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Sex Texts & Murder?
Aired February 13, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Day six, Jodi Arias on the stand. Phone sex yesterday. Character assassination today. She tells the world that Travis Alexander`s rage made her shake like a dog.
JODI ARIAS, ALLEGED MURDERER: Like how a Chihuahua shakes.
PINSKY: Claims that he had two personalities.
ARIAS: I craved the nice from him and dreaded the mean.
PINSKY: Said the worst thing to you.
ARIAS: Bitch. He tells me I`m worthless. And he tells me I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
PINSKY: And sent her hostile and offensive texts.
ARIAS: He said I looked like a pure whore.
PINSKY: Who`s on trial here? Jodi or the man she killed?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome to the program. Good evening. I`m with my co-host this work, former prosecutor Loni Coombs.
Joining us as well, Judge Karen Mills-Francis.
And in moments, we`re going to speak exclusively to Gus Searcy. He was one of the more controversial and colorful witnesses on the stand in the trial.
First off, raunchy phone sex, dirty text messages and allegations of violence are colliding in the Arias courtroom. Again, a warning, this is not kid stuff. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I want you to ride my freaking face like a horse. Start touching yourself.
ARIAS: I am already.
ALEXANDER: I just started --
ARIAS: Imagine my hands giving you a hand (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a day has gone by that I haven`t dreamt about driving my shaft hard into you.
ARIAS: He said I`m going to tell all your friends and family basically about all the -- I can`t remember how he characterized it -- but I think it was something like psycho things you`ve done.
ARIAS: I think I`m going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) honey.
ALEXANDER: Let me tell you what I was thinking about today.
ARIAS: All right. But if I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yet, OK, because then I`ll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) two times and you can (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a second time.
ALEXANDER: You`re ultra feminine. When you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) baby it sounds like, a 12-year-old girl having her first orgasms. It`s so hot.
ARIAS: Sound like what?
ALEXANDER: A 12-year-old girl having her first orgasms.
ARIAS: I threatened him back. What I said was kind of mean. The only thing I`m going to be spitting out is the fact that you`re a pedophile with a past.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: I`ve just got to ask. What is the defense doing? I hope I give a strong enough warning to people out there that people weren`t sort of hijacked by that material. It`s a warning. It`s the stuff that`s going on in court is truly unbelievable, Loni. Does this go on in every courtroom?
LONI COOMBS, CO-HOST: No, no. This is very unusual. This whole sexting, the phone sex, that`s all new in our society. For it to come into a court of law, I never saw it before.
PINSKY: OK, I feel a little redemption.
Beth Karas, correspondent for "In Session."
Beth, yesterday phone sex tape. Today, sexting, all very explicit. What is this all leading up to?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, if the defense was worried that the jurors might have the same attitude you do, this not believable stuff, then they needed to introduce it. They needed to corroborate some of the things Jodi Arias is saying, because who is going to believe her otherwise? She`s already proven to be a liar and the she starts saying these things that seem so outrageous to some people.
Well, you know, now, they have a little corroboration of it. Does it mean she`s justified in killing him? Maybe not. But it`s certainly giving the jury a different view of Travis Alexander.
And they`re basically trashing the victim and trying to save her life.
PINSKY: Right. They are trashing the victim. Judge Karen, would you have allowed this to go on in your courtroom?
JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, TV`S JUDGE KAREN: Well, this tape was introduced by the defense and you have to give a lot of leeway to allow the defense to present its case. I really didn`t hear too much of what was said on the tape because I heard so many bleeps, bleeps, bleeps
But I have a theory that there`s a reason why the defense and not the prosecutor introduced this tape. The jury is hearing about a victim and the victim is an angel. This tape shows that the victim was a human being. So I think it helps to take the victim a little bit off of the pedestal that he was on because nobody wants to speak ill of the dead. But just because somebody is dead doesn`t mean they`re not culpable somehow.
As I said to you in the past in this case, I believe that there was a game, there was a game going on between these two people that obviously ended very badly, but it was a dangerous game and it was a really messed up dysfunctional relationship. And this tape shows that.
PINSKY: Yes, it does.
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, I totally agree with the judge here. I think it`s very clear that they were both using each other. At one point, does using each other and become abusing each other? Do you hear abuse in the tape or is it just using?
PINSKY: No, I don`t -- I`m not sure I would call it using. It`s sort of acting out on each other. Each one of them played into each other`s pathologies in a very profound way and what each one was experiencing I don`t think was understood by the other in any real way.
I want to go out to Gus Searcy. He joins us exclusively. He`s a witness who has been described as Jodi`s mentor.
Gus, you understand what we`re talking about here, these two were sort of engaged in a very sick dance. Would you agree?
GUS SEARCY, JODI`S FORMER MENTOR: Yes, and I was aware of what had been going on before this all happened, yes.
PINSKY: Did you try to get her out of it? Did you try to talk some sense into her? Did you sense it was going in such a horrible place?
SEARCY: Well, you know, in helping her -- when you try to help people as I try to do, I need to understand all the aspects of what`s going on in their world -- mental, physical, emotional. And it came out really clear to me that he was simply using her. I mean, he was out dating nice, other girls and then coming back and using her, and he would throw it in her face.
And, you know, it came to a head one day when we were -- I was coincidentally in Las Vegas, and she called me just hysterical. They had a fight. He felt threatened by her. She needed to go somewhere. I said, you know what? I`m in Las Vegas, a couple hours away, come to Las Vegas. And when she was there I experienced him calling her, him cussing at her. They wouldn`t let me say it on the witness stand.
But when he cussed at her, she almost winced like she was ducking a bullet. After that she went outside and --
COOMBS: Well, Gus, why do you think she kept going back? You hear all of this abuse that she`s describing to you. She kept going back and kept going back. Why do you think she did that?
SEARCY: Why do good girls hang out with bad guys? If you want to get real primal about it, when a man and woman make love to each other, a man releases a pheromone that women can become addicted to, and it goes back to primordial times.
I think she was very much addicted to him. I mean, she was willing to change her religion. She was willing to do everything for him. And every time she would try to break away, he would do something to bring her back, start talking nice to her and make promises.
COOMBS: Let me ask you a question about the finger. The ring finger that we also dramatically held up in court.
PINSKY: The crushed one?
PINSKY: By the way, orthopedically, by the way, it could have been a swan neck deformity, I have one right here.
PINSKY: You get that from pulling the finger. You get that from inflammation, you don`t necessarily get that from -- who knows?
COOMBS: Right, right. So, you knew her for a period of time. Had you seen this, you know, bad finger before? Had she ever told you what happened to that finger?
SEARCY: I noticed it, but she never discussed it. She actually tried to be pretty private about stuff. And it was only if you`re helping her -- I mean, I got the worst of when she came to the motor home and saw what was going on then. That was towards the end of it all.
SEARCY: Prior to that, I knew she was having trouble with him.
PINSKY: I got to take a break.
But, Gus, if it was simple as pheromones, every woman would be addicted to every man. That simply does not happen. The fact is when people become I`m meshed in these highly chaotic relationships, it is acting out the circumstances of their childhood.
Yes, he came from a horrible situation. She maybe came from a horrible situation. Even when people get in those situations, they don`t tend to end in murder.
More of this, more of the lewd language from murder defendant Jodi Arias. Gus is going to stay with us and take your calls if you like. Call us if you want to talk to him, 855-373-7395.
And later, Jodi Arias, the early years. A special guest joins me, someone who knew her in high school. She`s going to give us some pictures from the yearbook and tell us about the girl she knew then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
ARIAS: She was very nice to me. He was complimentary. He said nice things.
ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie you to a tree and put it in your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
ARIAS: Oh, my gosh. That is so debasing, I like it.
ARIAS: Even when they were explicit, they were still complimentary toward me.
ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie your arms around a tree, blindfold you and put the camera on a timer while I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: It is sort of unbelievable that that was all in a court of law while family members of both these people sat there and had to listen to this, one from the grave.
I`m back with my co-host this week, former prosecutor Loni Coombs. We are speaking exclusively to Gus Searcy.
Gus, this whole thing has all of us so disturbed. Let me just ask you this, how do you get involved with her? What are you doing in her life?
SEARCY: Well, I`m what they call an executive director in the company that she was involved with, and I did something in 90 days which usually takes people a year to two years to accomplish. And as a result of that, a lot of people want to find out what I did, how can I help them do it.
And she wanted to try to do better in the business. So I have lots of people that I work with, probably 30 to 50 people at any given time, and I started working with her, which means I meet with them at least every couple months. I talk with them on the phone a couple times a week.
PINSKY: All right. I get it, I don`t need to know that. You get to work with them on their sales techniques, I guess.
Beth, you have a question for Gus. Go ahead, Beth?
KARAS: I do.
Mr. Searcy, one of your work colleagues, Chris Hughes, testified at a hearing, not in front of the jury, that you told him you had information that could help or hurt Jodi Arias. You did testify in front of the jury to that fight you just talked about. You heard Jodi`s end of the fight with Travis on the telephone. So, that arguably can help her.
What information do you have that could hurt her?
SEARCY: OK. Well, when this all first, when -- well, here is basically this. I said help or hurt. Here is the hurt part. When the night Travis died, I got a call from Jodi at 3:30 a.m. in the morning, crying hysterically that Travis was dead. When this happened, I asked her what happened, how she was, where she was.
And I then the next day told a friend of mine about it. Well, then a little down the road she got arrested and had not confessed at that point. Then I called the D.A.`s office.
And back then, by the way, there was no limelight, didn`t even know there was going to be. But I thought this information could help her or hurt her because they can check the phone records, because I asked her specifically, where were you, where are you? And she said she was in northern California. Well, if they checked the phone records and found out she was in northern California, she would have been off the hook. If they checked the records and they said she was in Arizona, then she would have a bigger problem.
PINSKY: But she ended up confessing.
SEARCY: The D.A. never called me back.
PINSKY: Yes. On issue of did she or didn`t she, she did.
Janet in New York, you wanted to ask something of Gus.
SEARCY: Right, but --
JANET, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: I`m so sick and tired of hearing about her sexcapades. You know what? I think the defense is really playing to the male jurors because what red blooded American man is not going to be secretly intrigued listening to all these vivid details about what Jodi will let Travis do to her.
PINSKY: Janet, let me interrupt you. And I`m going to go to Karen on this.
And, Karen, for me as a male, I shutter at it. It`s scary. It`s like someone could manipulate you and drag you in on this way and get you so off guard and then be your murderer. That is stunning to men.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Oh, come on, Dr. Drew. You`ve been in this profession a long time. Men play games with him all the time. Women play games with men all the time.
These sex tapes, guess what? Pillow talk goes on between couples all over the world. How many of us could take having the recordings of our pillow talk spread across national TV? OK? So, it`s not so shocking. What`s shocking is that it`s been made public, something that is really normally private.
I think what is really developing in this case and we`re not talking about it is I think that we are getting some sympathy for this defendant. We are seeing that there was a lot of emotional manipulation here. I mean break up, make up, I love you, I don`t love you, I want to be with you, join my religion, move to my town, no, leave me, I got a new girlfriend. Yes, you can sleep with me tonight -- the night he dies. But tomorrow morning, I`m going to Mexico with my girlfriend.
I think the picture being painted of the victim is he manipulated this girl.
PINSKY: I, you know --
MILLS-FRANCIS: Guess what? What was Jodi`s motivation? He wasn`t rich. He wasn`t powerful.
So, she must have, what? Loved him. She must have loved him, obviously.
PINSKY: Ladies, Karen, Loni, this is where -- this is what they`re going for, I guess, the defense. Janet was talking about the male response. Very different than what you described, Karen.
I got to tell you, I don`t have sympathy for you. More like it`s a frightened response. Somebody is that manipulative, he could have believed he was that in into her, she was responding with that kind of what seemed sincerity and he was all the way down the path.
COOMBS: Well, what`s also interesting is some of the men that we talked to, if they have loved one who has been abused a, a sister or loved one, they`re relating to her as an abused woman. We heard that from the male.
COOMBS: Some of the men are relating to that.
PINSKY: Karen, your point is extremely well taken. That`s something I want to continue to evolve as we go along here because that is -- wow, it`s confusing when you take it there.
Thank you, Beth Karas, for your report.
Gus Searcy, I hope you enjoyed your time with us. I appreciate you coming in and giving us your thoughts.
Next up, I`ve got a rare photo of Jodi Arias, uncovered by a woman who grew up with Jodi in Yreka, California.
Plus more on the sexting and texting from court today.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He also says in this message, "you are the ultimate shut in bed". What did that mean to you? Is there some history behind that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s that history?
ARIAS: Sometimes he would call me that when we were having sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We`re back talking about the salacious material in the Jodi Arias trial today. My co-host this week, former prosecutor Loni Coombs.
And, Loni, we were talking about how a lot of male and female stuff is entering into this, and the jury has responded and how different Jodi and Travis are in their relationship. I said something you seemed to respond to, and something to the audience to know, too, is that a sex addict and love addict. Women often come to sex addiction through a love addiction and they hook up with a sex addict, very much like what`s going here. It`s the way to think about this.
And the love addict often will become the stalker, when the other person tries to leave, they can`t be without it. Those things can really break down. I think this is sort of a classic circumstance of that.
COOMBS: And I think that`s helpful for people to understand Jodi better, because they keep saying, well, she can`t really be enjoying this sex stuff. But for her, it`s not so much as sex addiction, but like you said, a love addiction.
PINSKY: A love addiction, but it doesn`t defend murder, right?
COOMBS: No, never.
PINSKY: In any way. Right. In any way.
All right. Joining us now on the phone, Stephanie Lawrence who went to high school with Jodi.
Stephanie sent us some yearbook pictures of Jodi. Let`s take a look at that. There we are.
Oh, my goodness.
Stephanie, you reached out to us because you yourself have been a survivor of domestic violence and abuse. Do you believe that Jodi is a victim in this situation?
STEPHANIE LAWRENCE, WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WITH JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew.
Being that experience myself and watching her on the stand, her body language, the way she reacts, the way she answers, it`s not convincing and genuine to me. It actually irritates me. It bothers me.
PINSKY: So, as a survivor yourself -- this is what I`m hearing from a lot of survivors, that they feel somehow diminished by her testimony. Is that accurate?
LAWRENCE: Yes, that`s perfect word to describe it. It`s not a good situation to be in. No one wants to be in that situation.
But, unfortunately, there are a lot of people, women, men, too, in America in that situation. It`s nothing to be taken lightly. It`s clearly not affected her the way it`s affected me and the other people I`ve seen that have been through something like this.
PINSKY: And now, when you learned Jodi was being tried for murder, how did you react? What did you think?
LAWRENCE: I was completely surprised. My jaw dropped. The whole town was like that. We`re from a very small community and everyone kind of knows each other in some sort of way at least. She was always so quiet and soft spoken and just the last person I would ever think could be involved in that.
PINSKY: Karen, we`ve been talking a lot about the differences between how the men and women on the jury are going to respond to all this testimony. How do you think it`s all going to go down ultimately?
MILLS-FRANCIS: I have a feeling she`s going to be convicted but she`s not going to get the death penalty.
You know, the problem with this case -- and I`m listening to what your caller just said -- the law just started wrapping itself around the idea of physical abuse.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I mean, really, domestic violence and restraining orders, that`s new. We`re talking now about psychological and verbal abuse. How do you -- how do you explain that? How does -- like someone just asked, well then why did she stay?
I have read that psychological abuse and verbal abuse is more damaging emotionally than physical abuse. But the law doesn`t recognize it.
MILLS-FRANCIS: The law doesn`t recognize that.
COOMBS: How can the law -- like Dr. Drew says, there may be that type of abuse going on in her head, but Travis have absolutely no idea whatsoever, how could you hold him liable for what she thinks is going on?
PINSKY: Guys, I`ve got to go to break.
Stephanie Lawrence, thank you for bringing us the pictures from long ago.
Next up, Travis` former roommate, he knows Jodi was with her, actually drove her to the interrogation by the police and was with her at the funeral.
Later, how is Jodi`s character assassination going over with my jury from courtroom? There they are. We`ll have that after this.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host this week, former prosecutor Loni Coombs. And joining us is Aaron Dewey. He was Travis Alexander`s colleague and former roommate. He actually lived in the house where Travis was killed. This was just months before his death.
Aaron also knew and knows Jodi.
Aaron, you -- as I said before the break, you actually drove Jodi to the police station for the questioning about Travis` murder. What did you observe that day? What was her demeanor like going there and coming back?
AARON DEWEY, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FORMER ROOMMATE: Her demeanor was completely calm and collected. She was going there with the intention of trying to clear her name, trying to give police enough to get them off of her trail.
And so, all things considered she held it together quite well, nothing out of the ordinary.
PINSKY: Did you -- did you have any suspicions? Had you been concerned about her relationship with Travis?
DEWEY: Yes. You know, living there, I had not necessarily witnessed so many times, but Travis would tell me occasionally when they would have an argument. And just like most couples do, they had their disagreements about different things, but I never once saw him get physical with her. I never once saw him do the things that she is portraying on the stand that she did to him over and over again.
PINSKY: And how did he -- in your mind, how did he think of this relationship with Jodi? Is she somebody he was just hanging out with, somebody he loved? What was it to him from your perspective?
DEWEY: You know, it changed over time. At first, he was very much interested in her, thought that she had great potential to build a good healthy relationship, but he also realized that it was turning into a very toxic relationship. At that time, I didn`t know about the sexual nature of their relationship. I didn`t feel it was my place to ask, even though, I had some suspicions.
But he knew that this was not the type of person that he wanted to be with long term. But, you know, like it was addressed earlier on the show this evening, I`m going to disagree with Gus. I don`t think Jodi was addicted to Travis. I think Travis had an addiction to Jodi. He pushed her away over and over again, but he allowed her to keep coming back into his life.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Aaron, I have a question for you about Jodi`s demeanor. I find it fascinating that you say here she was going to the police station knowing that she had killed him, and yet, she was very calm and cool and collected, and she went to the memorial service later. Do you think that she`s arrogant? That she thinks she`s smarter than everyone else?
Because she seems to be so calm and articulate on the stand. And, you know, we don`t see that part of her played out because she`s playing the victim part, but, you knowing her as you do, do you think there`s some arrogance behind all of this?
DEWEY: I think there is to some level. I think we definitely saw that in the "Inside Edition" interview where she was convinced that no jury would ever convict her. She`s giving some stupid story now as to why she said that. But, I think that demonstrates that she completely thought that she was going to get away with this.
She thought that she had covered her tracks well enough getting there, getting away, and that she was free and clear.
PINSKY: And Karen, it brings up the question of why she taped that sex tape in the first place. Do you think that she was sort of building a case already, sort of in anticipation of something going down?
JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, TV`S "JUDGE KAREN": You know, we hear she broke into his Facebook page. We hear that she broke into his e-mail account, she slashed his tires. Maybe she made that tape because he was always cheating on her with other girls. Maybe she was going to play it for one of his new girlfriends. We don`t know why she made the tape.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But you know what, Dr. Drew? Dr. Drew, I think she could be what they call a compartmentalizer.
MILLS-FRANCIS: You know, she can, you know, separate out her emotions, divorce herself from whatever trauma she might be feeling. Like I said earlier, the man wasn`t rich, the man wasn`t powerful. There was nothing that she could really have gotten out of this relationship, for her to move to his state, change her religion, think she`s going to get married, I think it had to do with her warped sense of love even though he humiliated her over and over again.
PINSKY: And Karen, let me just give a quick little thing on that. I mean, yes, love addicts and sex addicts often go together. Men that become sex addicted, lot of men have that kind of quality, but when they`re really get going with it, they often have emotional abuse in childhood. Women they get sex addiction, often have sexual abuse in childhood. Women that get love addiction often have a lot of abandonment and they have the kind of personality structure you`re describing, Karen.
And the person we`ve been describing in Jodi all along here through every one of these programs. So, it`s somebody who can`t tolerate loss, can`t tolerate somebody coming and going. And then, as we hear friend`s name here, Aaron, he`s saying that, you know, Travis kept going back to her because she was his heroin. So, it`s sort of a very volatile mix.
COOMB: Which I think that also brings up a motive for this killing, not self-defense but anger.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, anger and who knows what kind of state she was in. I want to go to Janet real quick who`s a caller. Janet, can you tell us in 15 seconds what you want to say?
JANET, ALABAMA: Yes, Drew, how are you doing, dear?
PINSKY: Good. Thank you, ma`am.
JANET: I`m so upset (ph). OK. Forget about all the anal sex, forget about all the other sex that these guys had, anal, oral, forget that. I am so pissed now. He is supposedly a pedophile? Doesn`t Jodi have a young brother? And why if she is so concerned about all of these accusations, why has she not brought this to the attention of the authorities?
PINSKY: That`s right. No, you`re right. And why does she keep going back? That is the question there -- and by the way, pedophilia is not a part-time endeavor. It will do that a little bit here and there. I mean, it might be a little bit confusion in your sexual compulsions, but it doesn`t sound like that.
Thank you, Aaron Dewey, we appreciate your comments.
Next up, my jurors are back. What did they think of Jodi today?
And later, if you are a couple in crisis, give me a call. We are at 855-DrDrew5. I`ll have help in the studio for you. We`ll get to that after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: What made you want to follow this trial?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife got involved in it. So, she got involved in it means I get involved in it. And, I think it`s fascinating.
PINSKY: We have learned Jacob is severely co-dependent, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is time for what we call "Dr. Drew`s Jury." That was one of my jurors from earlier this week. Back with me my co-host, Loni Coombs. We`re talking about adult issues tonight. So, again, we are reissuing our warning for the youngsters in the room.
Joining me, Katie Wick and Laura Weiss. That was Laura`s husband you just saw there, Jacob. Katie and Laura were in the courtroom today as Jodi portrayed Travis as a violent, hostile guy.
Now, Laura --
PINSKY: You dragged your husband to the courtroom and he`s gotten into it now. What made you get involved in this in the first place? They`re not hearing us out there? We have technical issues. Katie, can you hear me?
KATIE WICK, WITNESSED JODI ARIAS TESTIMONY TODAY: Yes, I can hear you.
PINSKY: OK. Great. Laura doesn`t hear me, unfortunately.
WICK: Hey, how are you?
PINSKY: I`m good. So, what did you think of how she was being -- how she was portraying Travis today?
WICK: Oh, OK. Well, first of all, it was -- the e-mail is something that really got to me. The e-mail basically where she was telling Travis - - and this was May 16, of 2008, so we`re a few weeks away from the murder, so far, and she was telling Travis, you know, it`s OK, Travis, if we want to be friends, I understand. I`ll always be there for you, I`ll always love you. Yours truly, Jodi.
But, it was interesting, because I know on your show, I believe last night, you were talking about doing the correlations between the movies and psycho, and I don`t know if you`re familiar. It wasn`t a blockbuster hit or anything. It was the movie called "Enough." And basically, it`s about a woman who was being abused and she went to kill her husband, and she planted all these letters in the dresser drawer.
And Dr. Drew, I was thinking to myself when I heard this, is this true or is this another part of this premeditation, now let`s do an e-mail where it shows three weeks before I`m going to go to kill him that I was find as being a friend and --
COOMBS: Well, you know, Katie, if that was premeditated which I thought was interesting that she did not talk at all about any type of pedophilia in there.
PINSKY: Or abuse. She was really just concerned that she disrespected her by leaving her out of a book.
COOMBS: That`s right. I mean -- but she did bring up that she was upset about something which is unusual for her, but the one thing she brought up was so innocuous compared to the things that she`s alleged on the stand. Didn`t that seem like there was some big thing missing there?
WICK: There did. And the other thing that was interesting today is I was watching the jury. The jury -- they weren`t taking hardly any notes. And I think they are so tired of hearing all of this sex talk. And we were really expecting that, perhaps, the defense attorney would get to June 4th today and he didn`t.
WICK: So, it`s just showing -- it just shows more of a guy wanting to have sex with a girl and a girl wanting to have sex with a guy, but it shows me Jodi still wanting more, and she was upset she wasn`t getting it.
COOMBS: In fact, I noticed a lot of empty seats in the courtroom today. Is their interest kind of waning there because it is going on and on and not getting to the actual killing.
WICK: Yes. There was a whole row, even the public. I mean, I remember when I would come here about a week, a week and a half ago, and people were arguing, people had their own ticket system going, writing a number. That`s gone now. You still have to get there and line up pretty early to get a seat, but it`s not as intense it was.
I think what people are doing is waiting to see Prosecutor Martinez get up there which we sort of got a little hint today -- I don`t know if you all heard what happened today when he approached Jodi, the tactic that he might take with her.
And I`m hearing people say that they hope that he kind of stays back and doesn`t approach her that much because she is so petite and maybe the men are going to side with Jodi if he takes that route, but we`ll see.
PINSKY: That`s interesting, Katie. I want to go to Laura. Laura, you heard Katie say that the jurors seem to be sort of over it, at least just sort of burned out by all this material. Is there any difference that you could determine or sort of intuit between how the men on the jury and the women are reacting?
LAURA WEISS, DR. DREW "JUROR": I really couldn`t tell, you know, by the short time that I was in there today. I could jest tell how I was feeling. And, to be honest with you, I was feeling a little bit of sympathy for her today. And, it really -- I hate to say it, it bothers me to say that because I feel like maybe I shouldn`t, but I did feel sympathy for her. Those --
PINSKY: Laura, what was it? Yes, what got you?
WEISS: The sexting, I guess, they call it now. I`ve never, you know, heard of it really before, but it was very degrading. It was very dirty. It was just very disturbing. I would never allow anybody to speak to me that way, and I felt kind of saddened that she would allow somebody to not only speak to her that way, but that she felt like she needed to enjoy it for his benefit. I just felt saddened.
PINSKY: It is sad and they sort of co-created it. It wasn`t all him. She was participating.
COOMBS: It`s a back and forth thing.
PINSKY: Yes. Cynthia in Massachusetts --
WEISS: Oh, no, no, no.
PINSKY: No. Laura, go ahead -- Laura.
WEISS: No. I absolutely agree that she was alluring, but you know, it was in his own words, also.
PINSKY: Fair enough.
PINSKY: Let me get Cynthia in here. Cynthia, you want to say something?
CYNTHIA, MASSACHUSETTS: Yes, Dr. Drew. I think that this guy, Travis, totally used this girl.
PINSKY: We`re getting sympathy for Jodi here. Interesting.
CYNTHIA: She would have done anything for him, anything. Come running at the snap of the finger.
PINSKY: This is what Judge Karen was talking about, that it`s going to create some sympathy for her, making it seem as though she was so under his spell. Laura, you`re going to ring in? Go ahead.
WEISS: Well, that`s exactly how I felt. You know, it`s very obvious that she comes -- I believe she comes from a dysfunctional family.
PINSKY: Laura, I got to tell you. I think you`re right, maybe. We don`t know the facts. Again, there`s no evidence that they`ve shown any facts, and I think the men are going to get more freaked out about her and the women are becoming more sympathetic. This is really incredible.
COOMBS: But I still don`t think that`s going to get to a not guilty.
PINSKY: Katie, last word.
WEISS: Oh, no. Absolutely not. I don`t believe that either. She`s absolutely guilty.
PINSKY: Katie, last word.
WICK: Dr. Drew, I just -- no, I was just going to say, Jodi is either telling the full truth right now, Dr. Drew, or she has been reading the playbook of abused women because --
PINSKY: Right. That`s right. Where`s the evidence? Where`s the beef (ph) ? Where`s the beef (ph)? What`s the evidence --
PINSKY: It`s all fitting in beautifully on a thin air. Thank you, Katie and Laura and also thank you Loni. Thank you. You`ve done a great job this week. I got to say goodbye to you right now. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And what a great week to have you in here, too.
So, next up, we`re switching gears a little bit. We`re going to talk about relationships in crisis. I want you to call me now at 855-DrDrew5. I`m going to have a little help in here, and we`ll get right to you.
PINSKY: Tomorrow is Valentine`s Day, a day fraught with expectations and letdowns. I always say, man, you can`t win on Valentine`s Day. I`m just saying. Just don`t expect to be able to walk away with anybody happy. I`m just saying.
So, let`s talk about relationships. We`re hearing there might be something going wrong and how we can get back on track. With me, relationship expert, Emily Morse, and we are discussing real life problems. Again, as -- I have to issue a warning tonight, some of these problems are a little bit, again, the racy side there.
Nowhere near like Jodi Arias`s tape and all, but again, it`s some difficult material sometimes. I`m going to go right to the phones. This is Janet from Georgia. Janet, go right ahead.
JANET, GEORGIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Jack and I were fixed up by our kids 24 years ago. We`ve been through the murder of our granddaughter, and our son got a 30-year drug sentence. So, we`ve been through a lot. And I thought that there was nothing that could really ever make us hit that wall, you know, where I would throw up my hands and say I`m done.
PINSKY: Let`s zero in. I get there`s amazing stress. There`s grief. There`s all kind of horrible feelings flying around. What`s the state of the relationship now?
JANET: We`re sleeping in separate rooms. And I heard you say one time on a show that when a man picks a woman as his wife, he`s saying I`m not going to have any other women or sex partners and if we reject them, that that`s rejecting --you know, that`s really hurting --
PINSKY: Right. It makes men feel wounded and feel rejected and unattractive and not worthwhile when their partner rejects them.
EMILY MORSE, SEX & RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Absolutely. When someone feels rejected from their partner, there`s no way that you can recover from that. So, Janet, you`re feeling rejected right now?
PINSKY: oh, she rejected him --
MORSE: She rejected him? OK.
JANET: No, no. I didn`t reject -- well, I mean, I have now like six months ago, but I`ve tried very hard not to. But, the reason I finally did is because all I asked for is to hold my hand when it`s not sexual. And finally, on Christmas eve, he looked at me and he just said that`s not going to happen.
PINSKY: Oh, Janet.
MORSE: I`m really sorry, because I have to just tell you that it`s OK to want that from your husband of so many years, to want to be touched, to want the intimacy. And the couples who don`t have intimacy, it really does wreak havoc on the relationship, because that`s what you`re talking about. He`s not touching, he`s not sharing, he`s not (ph) opening up.
PINSKY: And men sometimes don`t appreciate how important that is.
MORSE: Yes. They really don`t.
PINSKY: It is vital. Those small things that men overlook are critical. Women have a great instinct for what relationships need.
PINSKY: And Janet, that instinct, you`ve got to fight for it. Have you ever thought about -- we`ve got to know why he`s so shut down. It sounds like he`s depressed or something, reasonably so with all that`s going on. Is there a way you guys can get in and get professional help?
JANET: We did and it worked for about two weeks. He was putting forth a little bit of an effort and then it just went right back --
MORSE: You`ve got to keep going, though. I mean, this -- people say they went to therapy and they go for two, three weeks. That`s not enough. I mean, therapy can take years. And you can take work. I mean, you saw results after two weeks, so I would say if you still think you can save the relationship, I would say it`s time to get back in.
PINSKY: Janet, I can -- (INAUDIBLE). Listen, think about it this way. Not only -- you have evidence that that kind of therapy works for you. Many people they don`t get results for months and months and months. And so, you have fantastic results. But like any change, it has to be sustained and maintained.
And to maintain a change, whether it`s weight loss or whether it`s working out or whether it`s study, whatever it is, you got to keep working on it. In your case, you guys clearly need some supervision for that. So, please do that.
Quickly, Susan from Georgia -- Susan.
SUSAN, GEORGIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Susan.
SUSAN: I`ve been married 33 years and my husband has a pretty severe porn addiction, not just porn, though. It`s escort services.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness.
SUSAN: Live porn, videotapes hidden throughout the house, money being spent in the thousands, and that he`s a contractor overseas, so he has access to Thailand and I think it got really bad there.
PINSKY: OK. All right.
SUSAN: But I found him. He was home for a leave last year and I found him on the internet with live role playing.
PINSKY: OK. We get the picture.
MORSE: We got the picture. It doesn`t sound great to me. And I think that --
SUSAN: I haven`t seen him in probably eight months.
PINSKY: Oh my God!
MORSE: Oh, you haven`t seen him in eight months?
SUSAN: He`s home, but he will not see me.
SUSAN: He`s too ashamed.
MORSE: He won`t see you because -- well, do you feel like seeing him? I mean, it sounds like --
SUSAN: Yes, I`ve asked to see him to try to -- I`ve got an attorney to see about a separation --
SUSAN: She found more stuff.
PINSKY: Twenty seconds.
SUSAN: Yes. So, I don`t know what to do.
PINSKY: Here`s the bottom line. You have to decide if you`re in or you`re out. That`s the first order of business. If you want to try to make go of this, there is no -- first of all, A, he`s got to be as enthusiastic or committed as you and be willing to change. It sounds like his massive out (ph) really in trouble. It may be more than just sex, maybe drugs involved here.
PINSKY: This sounds bad. And, but still, there`s treatment out there. You got to avail (ph) yourself, or as you say, decide you want out, get the attorney, and swift and sure, my dear.
MORSE: Take care of yourself, because a lot comes up for women, they feel rejection. She feels she wasn`t good enough for her partner.
PINSKY: There`s the reason you`re with this guy and you`ve got to figure out why that is. Got to take a break. More calls after this.
PINSKY: Welcome back. It is Valentine`s Day approaching. And we`re back with more of your relationship issues. Sex and relationship expert, Emily Morse, is with me. I`m going to go right to the phones. I have limited time. Melissa in California. Melissa, go right ahead.
MELISSA, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. My boyfriend and I have been together for about seven years. We have a really good relationship. We even have a daughter together. We live together. But my problem, my biggest problem with him is that he doesn`t listen or pay attention.
PINSKY: Hold on a second. A man that doesn`t --
MORSE: Oh, wow!
PINSKY: I`m shocked.
MORSE: It`s such a shock. I`ve never heard that before. No, that makes so much sense. So, what`s the problem? No, I understand the problem there.
PINSKY: Is it not listening or is it not wanting to listen? Those are two different things.
PINSKY: Is it that he doesn`t listen when it`s time to shovel the snow and pick up the milk and take the dog out, and if it`s we`re going to go play football or watch a game, he listens real well there.
MORSE: Here are the sports, here are the score and the sports. He knows who won the Super Bowl or whatever, but he`s not paying attention to your needs and to what you say.
MELISSA: Yes, pretty much.
MELISSA: I mean, is there --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
MELISSA: I mean, is there a difference between men and women and how we listen?
MORSE: Absolutely. I mean, there have been studies that show that women listen more with their left and right brains and men only listen with some of their left brains and it`s just -- it`s totally different --
PINSKY: We`re not listening with our body so much. And here`s how you can get a guy to listen.
MELISSA: OK. I`m writing this down.
PINSKY: Although, some recent research didn`t bear this up, I have found to be true is that taking the -- doing the laundry, taking the trash out, doing a little work around the house, increases -- you`re turned on by that, so to speak, and it will improve things in the bedroom. It`s foreplay.
MORSE: It`s foreplay. Exactly.
PINSKY: And believe me, suddenly he`s all ears, magically, right? Have you ever told him anything like that?
MELISSA: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: And he still doesn`t do it?
MELISSA: I told him before, you know, you look really sexy when you wash the dishes.
PINSKY: He doesn`t believe you. You`ve got to really say, no, no, listen to me. That is foreplay. And then dinner, that`s getting even closer. Listen to me at dinner. Oh my God. That`s full-on foreplay.
I got to go. I got to go out. We`re losing our slot here. So, thank you very much, Emily.
MORSE: Great to be here.
PINSKY: I appreciate it. We`ll have you back in soon.
MORSE: All right.
PINSKY: Thank you to all my guests. Thank you to people who called tonight. Thank you, of course, for watching. Guess who`s up right next? Nancy Grace, and she starts right now.