CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

NANCY GRACE

Jodi Arias on the Stand Describes Texts, E-mails

Aired February 13, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: (INAUDIBLE) monogamous. Time to spit it out. The only thing I would be spitting out is the fact that you`re a pedophile with a past. He got very quiet, flipped me the double bird and then walked in the house and shut the door. So I just drove away (INAUDIBLE)

It hurt my feelings. He was seeing a bunch of girls on the side. While I was his girlfriend, I was one of the girls that he was seeing on the side.

I gave him my Gmail password and my Facebook password.

It was, like, my nerves -- I`d kind of, like -- like, I would do (ph) all the shakes. You know, just kind of tremble a little bit, like, a tingly, uncomfortable, like, nervous, like, your nerves are starting to get frayed.

(INAUDIBLE) bully at that point, and I was tired of being bullied.

He said, I`m going to tell all your friends and family basically about all the psycho things that you`ve done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want (ph) to feel like you were raped?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it your ultimate goal in life to be Mr. Alexander`s whore?

ARIAS: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He calls you a three-hole wonder?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a slut?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a whore?

ARIAS: Yes.

He calls me a bitch. He tells me I`m worthless. And he tells me I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: And so she killed him!

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. After Jodi Arias tells a jury murder victim Travis Alexander was a pedophile, with no one in court to challenge that, we learn Arias in the weeks before his murder buys a gun, dyes her hair, then tape- records herself luring Travis into phone sex.

In the last hours, Arias continues the attack on murder victim Travis Alexander, describing now X-rated text messages. But where are the e-mails or the text messages about pedophilia? Did they conveniently disappear? Arias goes on to say Travis actually broke her left ring finger.

But tonight, busted! We confirm Arias tells two other completely different stories about the alleged injury. Arias talks the talk on direct, but where`s the beef?

We are live at the courthouse and taking your calls. Jean Casarez, bring us up to date.

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Oh! There are so many dates and so many text messages between Travis and Jodi, and the defense is trying to show the control and the power that Travis had over Jodi, even after she moved back to Yreka, the names he would call her, the fact that she was friends with a guy and he would make her send e-mails, she testifies, to this guy to say, We can`t be friends anymore, and then she would forward it on to Travis so he would know.

This is the pattern that the defense is trying to show of control and power that leads one to become a victim of domestic violence. This is what they`re trying to show. But it`s taking hours, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, question. Are they introducing those e-mails, as they describe them?

CASAREZ: Yes, many are being entered into evidence, but conveniently, just as you said, the one where she asserts herself saying that he is a pedophile is nowhere to be found.

But also, in that e-mail, Nancy, the prosecution gets a win here because she says that he texted her that she was -- her psycho ways, that he was sick and tired of her psycho ways. The jury has heard that.

GRACE: Interesting about that, Jean.

Everybody, there camped outside the courthouse, Jean Casarez and the rest of our team.

Interesting about that. The jury is probably going to be disallowed from ever hearing that she slashed his tires, the degree to which she stalked him. But in my mind, the defense has opened the door to that because they`re the one that brought in this conversation.

I mean, I could see on cross saying to her, Now, you said Travis Alexander threatened to expose you for all of your psycho ways. What did he mean by that? Because they have opened the door to what was previously inadmissible evidence.

CASAREZ: That`s exactly what I thought when I heard it because I think it was a bombshell statement. She said it. She was just reading through and reciting what these e-mails included, these text messages. And I think it opened the door, too.

GRACE: Out to Alexis Weed, our team member, also there with Jean Casarez at the courthouse. Weigh in, Alexis. What else happened in court?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, so this statement where Jodi Arias claims that she was threatened by Travis, that Travis said to her, You know, I`m going to expose you because I`m going to tell about all of the psycho things that you`ve done -- and Arias says, Well, you know what, Travis? She says she calls Travis back, that it begins by Travis bullying her over a text -- from 1,000 miles away, mind you.

She says she calls back, and that`s when she says to Travis that, no, her threat is that she`s going to expose Travis as a pedophile.

GRACE: Interesting she didn`t text that or e-mail that. And another thing, I want to talk to you -- put Alexis up. I want to talk to you, Alexis, about this Spider-Man boy underwear that we keep hearing about that he allegedly, according to her, makes her go buy and wears during sex encounters.

All right, I have seen photos of everything from what is purported to be his erect penis to her booty hole. Are you telling me that there are not photos of her wearing the Spider-Man underwear?

WEED: Right. Right. And Nancy, it`s Jodi Arias`s word. It`s her word that says that she received these as this Valentine`s gift from Travis. And she goes into great detail, describing how these underwear were packaged, that there were three of them in the package and how they were labeled and...

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Not those, Liz. I don`t want to see the ones that she sewed on Travis Alexander. What was that, right before she was going to get arrested, she takes a picture of those underwear? Defense (INAUDIBLE) there you go. There you go.

Now, were there photos of Spider-Man underwear introduced in court, yes/no, Alexis?

WEED: No.

GRACE: All right. Amazing. Now, I know that she claims Travis sent this to her. But Jean Casarez, are there her usual prolonged -- I mean, this woman can`t shut up. Are there any prolonged e-mails, texts about, Oh, I love the little boy`s underwear, because you know that`s what she would say. Do we have that?

CASAREZ: Or the "Spideys," as she calls them in court, the "Spideys." No, I have not seen them in a text or in e-mail and no picture at all, just her word.

GRACE: So hold on. So he sends her this present of boy`s underwear, and she never texts him or e-mails him back or takes photographs, nothing?

CASAREZ: No. And you know, even more than that, Nancy, the T-shirt that says "Travis`s" and then "Alexander`s," the little shorts -- he gives them to her on Valentine`s 2007. Wouldn`t there be a picture when he gives them to her or of her in them because it meant so much to him?

The only picture, Nancy, that was taken of those was after Travis was killed. That`s when she took a picture of those, the T-shirt and the shorts.

GRACE: This is so "Fatal Attraction." And today, the attack on Travis Alexander, the murder victim, goes on. Liz, let`s go into court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: He`s waking me up in the middle of the night with a whole bunch of text messages. They`re all unkind. He`s threatening me.

I just felt like he was being a complete bully at that point, and I was tired of being bullied. So I called him up and I said -- after he said, Time to spit it out -- and he just felt like he was trying to reach through the phone and still exert control over me and it was -- and I`m at my sister`s house and I`m sleeping. So I just -- I think I just got fed up.

And I called up and I said, The only thing I`m going to be spitting out is the fact that you`re a pedophile with a past and -- something like that. And I was saying -- I don`t know. At the time, I characterized what I saw as child pornography, but I realize it wasn`t child pornography. It was just a picture of a young boy. So I think I said something to that effect. And he got very quiet.

I didn`t want to leave things that way, but I knew that we`d -- he`d call me or I`d call him and there would be apologies because that was always the cycle. So I felt unsettled leaving things that way. But you know, I just thought we`ll talk about it later because we were both too upset.

So I left. I walked down the block, got into the U-Haul truck and started to leave. And I thought -- I pulled up to the house one more time just to see, you know, if maybe -- if anything -- and I called him and he came out on the front porch, and he came around to the side and we were talking a little bit more.

It seemed like things were going to go well, but then he was still upset. And so then he left -- I was still crying. And he went over to the front porch and he was going to go inside, and I was watching him before I pulled away. And he turned around and flipped me the double bird, and then walked in the house and shut the door. So I just drove away crying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: So she says he shoots a bird at her, that he bullies her in text messages and e-mails.

So to you, Dr. Janet Taylor. Why does she continue to pursue him? Why does she drive 1,000 miles to be with him? Why does she stalk him? Why does she slash his tires? Why does she go onto his e-mail and go onto his bank account to find out where he is and what he`s doing?

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Nancy, this couple put the "D" in dysfunction, clearly. She goes back to him, back to him. She had many opportunities to get away. And if he was a pedophile, she could have reported him. Clearly, she was dependent on him and wanted to -- that -- that need for her, that -- the fighting drove her some way, sexually or emotionally, and she needed that fuel for this dysfunctional relationship.

GRACE: Everyone, joining me tonight out of Odessa, Texas, a special guest. This is a friend of Jodi Arias. We`re going to hear her side. This is not a love interest. This is a young man that has repeatedly visited her behind bars. And he believes her fully, and I want to hear why.

With me, Bryan Carr. Bryan, thank you for being with us.

BRYAN CARR, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Thank you. You`re welcome.

GRACE: Bryan, how did you first connect with Jodi Arias?

CARR: Yes, actually, my sister -- I live in, actually, Prescott, Arizona, and my sister, she was a victim of domestic violence. And I wanted to reach out to her so I went to go visit her in jail. And after that, we just got to know each other. I got to know her personality.

And like I said, I do believe her. I mean, she`s a great, talented person. And a lot of people say there`s -- that she`s a liar. She did lie three times. She`d never been in trouble with the law, ever been in trouble with the law. She`s scared. She would lie. Now -- and fear brings out the truth.

So no one is there to defend Travis besides the prosecutor. All they have is witnesses on the stand that know their personality, but no legitimate witnesses. So no one really can say that Jodi didn`t do it in self-defense.

GRACE: Well, Bryan, I`d like to hear your theory about how it could be self-defense when Travis Alexander was stabbed in the back nine times. How could that be self-defense?

CARR: He was in the shower. A lot of people say that Travis was in the shower. And no one knows if he lunged at her. She claims that she`s been mentally abused -- like, he`s been mentally abusive, physically abusive, and no one can prove that different. I mean, because -- I mean, I have all the remorse in the world for the Alexander family, Travis Alexander, but no one can prove that...

GRACE: I want to go back to my question. If it was self-defense -- and I`m very open to what you believe happened. I would like to hear it. I never turn away from facts, whether I believe them or not, but I never turn away from evidence.

And my question to you is, since he was stabbed nine times in the back, stabbed a total of 29 times and shot in the head, but specifically the nine stab wounds to the back, how is that consistent in your mind with self-defense? I`m very anxious to hear this.

CARR: You know, I mean, when people lose their temper, they might -- they might snap, or when -- when they -- when they get to that certain point from being abused. So if he did lunge at her, she did -- she probably did consistently stab him. I mean, that`s where the nine stab wounds come from in the back. It doesn`t mean that`s where they started at. If he lunged at her...

GRACE: No, no, no! Wait, wait! No. Hold on, Bryan. It is proven in autopsy that they were inflicted into the back. They didn`t come from anywhere else. They came -- he was stabbed directly in the back 9 of those 29 times, 9 repetitive stab wounds to the back. Now, how is that consistent with self-defense?

CARR: Well, I want to go -- you don`t have to totally be physically abused, either. Mentally abused I think sometimes is worse. Like I said, it comes to a certain point where she snapped. I mean, if she...

GRACE: Well, snapping does not equal self-defense. If you are angry and you perform a killing in the heat of passion, anger, that is sometimes voluntary manslaughter, but anger or snapping is not a defense. You can`t kill someone and say, Oh, I was angry and so I killed him. That`s really not a defense to murder.

CARR: OK.

GRACE: But I want to get back to self-defense. How can it be self- defense when she stabs him nine times in the back?

CARR: You know, I mean, Jodi is the only one who knows that answer, I mean, really. I mean, I understand it doesn`t look good on Jodi`s part. But to put that she -- say that she murdered him in cold blood, and for me to know Jodi, is ridiculous. I mean, she`s not a cold-blooded killer whatsoever.

There`s a story behind it. She`s the only one that knows the story. I know a lot of people that don`t understand the story because they think that she`s a liar, which she did lie three times, but...

GRACE: I`m not so convinced because of just her stories. I`m more convinced because of the physical evidence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are camped outside the courthouse, bringing you the latest in the Jodi Arias murder one trial, on the stand all day long, now introducing sexting, text messages that Arias claims went between herself and Travis Alexander.

Out to the lines. Heather in Washington. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think you would be the person to answer this, but my concern is every day, I turn on your show and I see another thing the defense does that hurts her case. I`m wondering if she will have any type of recourse at the end of this for inadequate counsel.

GRACE: Actually, if she is convicted, there is almost always a claim, no matter how great your lawyers were, of ineffective assistance of counsel. And that can actually be a reversible point on appeal.

But I will say that the largest torpedo to the defense, in my mind, is her on the stand, and that was her decision to take the stand. So I don`t know how far that`s going to go.

But Heather in Washington, you`re absolutely right. If she believes that her conviction, if there is a conviction, was because of her lawyers, that is a very -- a venerable claim -- it`s been around a long time -- ineffective assistance of counsel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are camped outside that Phoenix, Arizona, courthouse, bringing you the very latest in the murder one trial of Jodi Arias, on the stand in her own defense.

And tonight, a friend of Arias who has visited her many times behind bars. He says it is not romantic in nature. He is supportive of her and believes her claims. With me is Bryan Carr, and he is not afraid to take your calls, as well as answer my questions.

Now, Bryan, you and I were discussing how this could possibly be self- defense since the victim was stabbed nine times in the back. And your response was you believe that she snapped and began stabbing him after a period of abuse at the hands of Travis Alexander.

CARR: Right.

GRACE: OK. What do you make of the photographs of him in the shower while she is fully clothed? And we know that she attacked him with both a knife and a gun, and that within 60 seconds of the last, let me just say, provocative nude photo of him in the shower, he`s dead. The attack has begun.

So I guess my question is how in about 40 seconds can he attack her, and then she runs out and gets a knife and a gun and comes back, and he`s in the throes of death? I mean, it clearly indicates she came into that room with a knife and a gun.

CARR: Well, I mean, she loves photography. So she went in there -- I mean, if he lunged at her, she might have got away and she went and got the weapon. I -- I -- I -- knowing her, I just don`t see that she is a cold- blooded murderer. I don`t see it at all. And I mean, no -- like I said, I can`t say it enough. Like, no one knows exactly really what happened because...

GRACE: Well, I know that. No one knows because she was there, and the other witness is dead. That`s why we have juries to try to figure out what happened.

Now, what I`m saying to you is, where would she have a knife and a gun that she could get and start the attack in 40 seconds? She either had it on her, or she had to run and go get it, a knife and a gun.

Now, that says to me, Bryan, that she came into the room prepared to use that knife and gun, which completely defeats self-defense or a snap. She came in the room with the weapons. Is there any other explanation to counter the physical evidence?

CARR: I mean, obviously, she had -- obviously, she had the weapons on her. And from Jodi`s aspect (ph), Travis convinced her to come from -- down to his house, so she didn`t just come on her own free will. Travis convinced her.

And she claims that he was very abusive and he was very aggressive. She obviously got the weapon for -- she didn`t know what -- what the course of the meeting was at his house, so she got the weapons to protect herself. He obviously must have lunged at her. That`s...

GRACE: Well, they obviously had sex all day long. I think that was the nature of the meeting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the (INAUDIBLE) conversation we heard in evidence earlier, where he calls you a three-hole wonder?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a slut?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a whore?

ARIAS: Yes, and many other things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What other things do you recall him calling you during that conversation?

ARIAS: He calls me a bitch. He tells me I`m worthless. And he tells me I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, if all that is true, why did she continue going back to him, even pursuing him when he tried to break up with her and see other people?

Everyone, with me tonight, special guest Bryan Carr, a friend of Jodi Arias behind bars. He is taking your calls, along with our whole team.

Out to the lines. Linda in California. Hi, Linda. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I just wondered if anybody has ever checked her psychologically or if that`s part of it. She reminded me, and it scared me, when I first watched it, it was "Rainman" and (INAUDIBLE) and the toothpick (ph). Nobody -- is she a savant? No one has a memory like that, verbatim, day to day, what color socks she wore four years ago. It`s not possible, and that`s scary. And I feel that that in itself shows that she`s extremely strange.

GRACE: Well, unless, Linda, unless she`s making the whole thing up. That`s a viable alternative.

Joining me right now senior reporter Radaronline.com, Alexis Tereszcuk. Alexis, what do you make of what`s going on in the courtroom in the last hours?

TERESZCUK: Well, Jodi is now coming up with -- this is her big day. It`s right before she`s going to talk about the day she killed Travis, but she`s trying to establish that she was controlled by him, but it is failing. She has not given one instance where Travis told her to come and see her, and, in fact, she does everything he wants in fun. She enjoys it. She says, oh, OK, I`ll send you a naked picture but you have to delete it. And it`s all flirting. There`s nothing that she`s ever said to him that is I don`t want this to continue, and so he has free rein over this. And so the defense is just putting her out there to be cross-examined when they`re going to hit her back on everything that she is saying as not being the truth.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me now, Eleanor Odom, death penalty qualified prosecutor. Also with me Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Eleanor, what do you make of the defense decision to put her on the stand?

ELEANOR ODOM, DEATH PENALTY-QUALIFIED SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Well, I think it`s a bad decision, Nancy, because she can`t keep any of her stories straight and she`s going on and on. I think maybe a day of testimony might have worked, but now it`s gone on so long, we`re all bored with all this sex talk. All the prosecutor has to do now is come at her in cross- examination and concentrate on the facts, the fact that she was at Travis` apartment, the fact that she had a knife, a gun. The fact that she did kill him. So they just need to stick to the facts.

GRACE: All right. Peter, who ever knew sex could be so boring? You know, by now, the jury is like this, oral sex, anal sex.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And that`s the strategy, Nancy.

GRACE: Oh, I`m totally desensitized. It means absolutely nothing to me at this point, and, frankly, all the stuff she`s coming up with, I just find it too fantastical.

P. ODOM: I think that what the defense is doing, Nancy, and some may criticize it and I appreciate that, but they`re trying to humanize her to the jury. The more the jury knows her as a human being, even if they dislike her, the less likely they are to put her to death.

GRACE: OK. Back to --

(CROSSTALK)

P. ODOM: Let`s not forget.

GRACE: I am going to follow up. You know, second verse same as the first, every time I get you in a corner, Peter Odom, you start saying this is a death penalty case. I know that. We all know that, all right, thanks for the chorus.

I`m going to go to someone that she has absolutely convinced, someone that has had access to her, that has visited her multiple times behind bars. Bryan Carr is with us, a friend of Jodi Arias, he believes her hook, line and sinker.

All right, Bryan, question, did you ever actually question her about the physical evidence?

BRYAN CARR, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS: No, no. Actually when I go to visit her, we don`t even talk about court. I try to keep her positive, and I talk about light, me (ph), Willy (ph), believing that the outcome is going to be good for her. We never, ever talk about her court.

GRACE: What do you talk about?

CARR: We talk about like that I`m praying for her. We joke around. We have a good time in jail. I mean, it`s anything that makes her positive, because she -- right now she is going through so much stress. I mean, that`s all we really talk about. We never, ever talk about her case or evidence, nothing.

GRACE: Mm-hmm. You said she was very talented. What are those talents?

CARR: Art. I mean, she is great at art. That`s one thing she loves doing. She loves photography. But her main talent in there, I mean, it`s art. She loves drawing. She loves painting.

GRACE: I assume that would include the pictures of Travis Alexander`s erect penis and her booty hole, those pictures?

CARR: No, I mean -- I`m not going to go into details of what she likes taking pictures of. I mean, I don`t know where those pictures came from. Obviously her, but, no, I don`t know if she gets into that kind of thing.

GRACE: Well, to spare you, just to spare you, I will tell you that, yes, in fact, she does. But that, frankly, in my mind is neither here nor there, what pictures she likes to take, whether she engages in this kind of sex or that kind of sex -- I really could not care less. All I care about is what happened the day of the killing.

Out to the lines, Selena, New York. Hi, Selena, what`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I have a quick statement and a question. My statement is that I`m a really kind-hearted person, very open-minded person. And I have a heart for everybody. But when I see her on the stand with her head down and her face in her hair, it aggravates me. It doesn`t make me feel bad for her. I felt like if she was abused and there was a time to be strong, it`s right now, on the stand, not to have her head down and look weak.

But my question is that the phone sex tapes, I don`t understand why she recorded it. It didn`t start off sexually where she was like, oh, my God, I have to record this. It started off as a regular conversation. Did she ever mention why she decided to record that conversation (inaudible)?

GRACE: Good question. Jean Casarez, I want to go to two guests, Jean Casarez and Janine Driver, president of the Body Language Institute and author of "You Can`t Lie to Me." First of all, I am going to go to Janine. Janine, I agree with Selena in New York. It`s irritating me when she sits there like Cousin It with that hair all pulled in over her face. What`s that all about?

JANINE DRIVER, BODY LANGUAGE INST. PRESIDENT: We saw the same thing, Nancy, with Casey Anthony, in the beginning of the Casey Anthony trial, she had those mousy brown bangs always pulled in front of her face. This is what we call eye blocking or facial blocking. We tend to do this when we don`t want people to see who we really are. We saw this even with other people, notorious, Tony Heyward who was in charge of BP gas or BP gas spill. He was in front of Congress answering questions like this. These mousy bangs help her disappear a little bit.

But you know, we keep saying that there`s no affect with Jodi Arias. It`s not the same today, Nancy. If you know what to look for, we`re seeing some smiling here, and this appears every now and then when I think she is being deceptive. We call this duping delight. She is saying something with her words, but saying something different with her face.

GRACE: You know, I noticed that. I noticed that at the oddest moments during the testimony. With me one of the renowned body language experts, Janine Driver. And, Jean Casarez, let`s go back to that question of Selena in New York. She should be a detective, for Pete`s sake. She says, all right, why did she record this conversation? If Travis Alexander said let`s record phone sex, that wasn`t in the conversation. This was surreptitious recording, Jean.

CASAREZ: No, it wasn`t in the conversation, but she did testify that Travis wanted it recorded, that he wanted to be able to listen to it later. She did testify to that.

As far as her demeanor in court, I see her emotions are varied. They`re up, they`re down. There`s points where she`s very sullen and soft, there is other times when she is stronger and she testifies with more confidence.

GRACE: Jean, a couple of quick yes or nos. Can I please see Jean Casarez outside the courthouse? I`ve seen enough of Jodi Arias` hair like Cousin It.

CASAREZ: You`ve seen enough?

GRACE: Jean, Jean, here are my questions. No. 1, she says Travis Alexander wanted her to record this sex tape. All right. Is there any evidence, yes/no, that she sent the phone recording to Alexander?

CASAREZ: No.

GRACE: Is there any evidence that he ever listened to this conversation after the conversation?

CASAREZ: No. Not even foundation for the conversation, really.

GRACE: Is there an e-mail or a text in which he asks her to record phone sex?

CASAREZ: No.

GRACE: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are bringing you the very latest straight out of the Jodi Arias murder one courtroom, and we`re taking your calls. But I want to talk about -- to Bryan Carr, friend of Jodi Arias. Did Arias ever describe to you the incident where she broke her left ring finger?

CARR: She has, yes. She actually showed it to me when I went to visit her in jail. And I will say one thing, her finger is not pretty. It`s going to be damaged for life. I mean, there`s no fixing her finger. I`ve seen it up and close. Yes, she (inaudible) her finger.

GRACE: What did she tell you? What did she tell you?

CARR: Yes, that was the only time she talked about Travis when I went to visit her in jail, and she said the same thing that she said on the stand. Like -- he had shoes on and he kicked her hand and it broke her finger, and she showed it -- she showed the finger right to me, and I have no reason not to believe her about that.

GRACE: Well, I think you have on an earpiece in your ear, so listen very carefully. Could you roll that sound, Liz (ph), please?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: They didn`t say a lot. They were white Americans from what I could tell. They had -- what do you call those things -- they`re like beanies but they cover your whole face. They`ve got holes for your nose or your mouth and your eyes. And they were -- one was black and I think they were both black or maybe dark blue or something.

(CROSSTALK)

ARIAS: Can you see? It`s probably purple in color.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right on the crease.

ARIAS: There`s a man in this one maybe. I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one here?

ARIAS: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a small one? Or was it pretty deep?

ARIAS: I don`t know how deep it was. My finger hurt for a long -- for a while.

Across the room and he started shaking me, and he said [EXPLETIVE DELETED] you, and he was screaming real loud, and some of his spit got in my face -- and he wasn`t spitting on me, but as he was talking, and he body slammed me on the floor at the foot of his bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he do after he slammed you on the floor at the foot of his bed?

ARIAS: Well, it startled me. It didn`t hurt, but it startled me, and so I kind of let out an unexpected sound. I guess it could be best described as a yelp sort of. I can`t really explain it. It just was unexpected. So it startled me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And then, of course, there was the story told by Ryan Burns, the new boyfriend. Do we have a picture of Ryan? There he is. Who describes on that very same finger after the murder it being bandaged. Then she gave the excuse, Bryan Carr, that a cat had scratched her hand. That she had cut her hand, hurt her hand with glass at a restaurant where she claimed she worked. So that`s a lot of different stories about injuries to this one particular finger. Why have you decided to believe that Travis Alexander did that to her finger?

CARR: I did not even know Travis Alexander in general. If she told me that she hurt it by cutting her finger on the glass, I wouldn`t have believed the story. There is no way. Looking at her finger there`s no way she hurt it by a glass, or you said a cat scratching it. I mean, I wouldn`t even have believed that. I can believe someone kicked her in the hand because her finger is broken. So I guess that`s the reason I believe about her finger being broken.

GRACE: OK. And you discount the whole ninja story, too, that she told police, right, about the same finger?

CARR: You`re talking about when she did the investigation with the detectives?

GRACE: Yes.

CARR: Yes, I mean, that goes back where she has never been in trouble before. People are going to lie, and then eventually the fear is going to bring the truth out.

GRACE: Why? Why are you saying people are going to lie? Why are people going to lie? If this was truly self-defense, why would she lie?

CARR: She was scared. She had never been in trouble a day in her life. I mean, she`s a very emotional person is what I get out of it, and she`s going to lie. She wanted the -- and then finally the fear brought the truth out in her.

GRACE: I notice you keep saying the fear brought the truth out in her, but my question is why would she travel to see Travis Alexander with her tags on her car turned upside-down, in a rental car that she asked to be nondescript so no one would notice it? Why would she do that?

CARR: On that one, I wouldn`t have a good answer for that. I mean, but her going to Travis` house, I can say is that Travis convinced her to come to the house. She didn`t just go to Travis` house of her own free will. Travis convinced her.

GRACE: OK, all right, to Jesse MacPherson, a friend of Travis Alexander, also knows Jodi Arias. Jesse, I`d like to hear you weigh in on what we are learning tonight.

MACPHERSON: The whole thing is just completely preposterous. The character that she is being coached to play in front of this stage that she`s on compared to what we know Jodi as, and I met Travis in 2003, and six months before he was murdered I actually spent a week in his house in his bed staying with him for a week -- not with him. He basically gave up his room for me to stay in and showered in the shower, so seeing the crime scene investigation photos and knowing that the same place I was in for an entire week was the place that she murdered him, it`s -- it`s probably one of the craziest experiences that I`ve ever had in my life.

But seeing her lie after lie after lie, it`s just gross. And it`s like I`ll make up anything to save my life. You know, oh, this is this and boys, and what else could I make up that could maybe give me a defense here, and that`s it? So it`s crazy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Beth Karas also with us at the courthouse. Beth, I feel like Alice in Wonderland, that the rules of evidence have just been turned upside down. What is your impression of what happened in court?

KARAS: I was very surprised that these text messages to and from Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander were introduced. There had been a lengthy sidebar conference at the lunch break after the jurors left, and I suspect it was about this.

In any event, this appears to be some corroboration for what Jodi Arias said was Travis`s abusive behavior. But, for the most part, it`s long distance. She`s talking about things that happened after she moved to California. And I am scratching my head a little bit about why he continued to have contact with her, because according to some of his friends, he was very happy when she left. He was happy to get rid of her basically, he didn`t have to worry about her stalking him allegedly anymore. So she has a totally different spin on things, and we`ll just have to wait for the true test, which will be cross-examination.

GRACE: Tell it, Beth Karas. Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," in court from the very beginning. Back to a friend of Travis who also knows Jodi Arias, Jesse MacPherson. Jesse, what was your impression of Jodi Arias when you met her back in 2008 at a prepaid legal event?

MACPHERSON: I actually spent two days sitting next to her and Travis in March of 2008 with my wife and I, and we talked for a long time about Travis, and when they were apart or separated, she had many conversations - - or he had many conversations with my wife about them kind of separating, going in different directions and not quite sure if it was going to continue. But she was somebody who always dressed very provocatively.

GRACE: What do you mean by that? Everybody says that. But what do you mean by that?

MACPHERSON: She wore very tight clothing at all times that revealed her chest and her behind as much as possible. And she showed it off and she walked in and she had this presence about her. It`s why like, when you see the pictures of her, that is what Jodi -- she showed up as in. When you saw her eyes, she was just so distant. And she -- it was crazy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero Marine Lance Corporal Jeremy Kane, 22, Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Purple Heart, Marine Corps Achievement Medal. Mother Melinda, brothers Daniel and Benjamin. Jeremy Kane, American hero.

We are taking your calls. Out to Patty in Minnesota. Hi, Patty, what`s your question?

CALLER: Hi. When she was on the stand today and the prosecutor objected in reading the text messages, so she couldn`t read them anymore to figure out what they were supposed to have said, and I noticed she went back every so often when they told her to look at the date and recall what she said. It was almost like she was re-reading them to figure out what she needed to say.

GRACE: Interesting about your assessment of her demeanor on the stand. What do you make of that, Janine Driver?

DRIVER: Nancy, I`m glad this question was brought up. When she begins to think of an answer, make up an answer and lies, what Jodi Arias does are a lot of start-stop sentences, and she also uses the wrong tense. Nancy, she said he`s waking me up in the middle of the night, he was being a complete idiot. He`s waking me up is current. He was being a complete idiot. That`s like me saying nana is making my cupcakes on Valentine`s Day. She was a great grandmother. She died eight years ago. We don`t talk like that. She mixes up her tenses, she does start-stop sentences. And when she`s making up information, when she`s having that extra thought, she says things like this, Nancy. I`m going to tell your friends and family basically about the psycho things you`ve done. You have this start- stop sentence. About the what? When we have these pauses, it usually means she`s thinking about how psycho she really is, keying the sides of the car, really being crazy. We see the pauses. And your caller is dead on. This is when Jodi is lying to us and lying to the jury.

GRACE: Matt Zarrell, we haven`t even gotten to the stabbing yet.

ZARRELL: Yes, and we need to see how detailed she`s going to get, Nancy. She has been descriptive before, is she going to be descriptive now?

GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, a special good night. North Carolina friend Eric, 18 years old. He survives a random shooting at age 12 that leaves him a quadriplegic, and now his dream is to finish college, go to law school, and be a prosecutor. Eric, you inspire all of us. Stay strong.

And happy birthday tonight to Oklahoma friend and animal lover Carol. Here she is with daughter Tracy. Dr. Drew up next. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END