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CONNECT THE WORLD
Stocks Tank After Italy's Election Leads To Deadlock; Interview with Beppe Grillo; John Kerry Arrives In Germany For Talks
Aired February 26, 2013 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Pick the top story. Politics, religion, sports or business: chances are tonight you'll find Italy at the center of it.
Election gridlock here has sent global markets tumbling. I've got an exclusive interview with Italy's reluctant king maker.
Then, scandal at the Vatican raising questions over whether a new pope will truly mean a new start.
And Inter Milan's find for fan's racist abuse, what can stop the scourge plaguing Italian football.
Live from Rome, this is Connect the World.
With the show tonight, Italians here could well be going back to the ballot box after a divided election resulted in no clear single winner. Former comedian Beppe Grillo is the man of the hour. His anti- establishment movement took 25 percent, a quarter, of the vote here, giving him the king maker crown. And the leader of the center-left bloc narrowly won both houses, but it wasn't enough.
Pier Luigi Besani says he wants to have a crack at forming a government, but during a press conference he stopped short of proposing a formal coalition with any of the other main alliances led by Silvio Berlusconi, Beppe Grillo and the centrist group lead by the current prime minister Mario Monti.
Well, with no clear winner, European stocks have tumbled as investors prepare for what could be months of uncertainty.
Markets don't like that.
Straight to my colleague Richard Quest in London.
Neither you nor I, I think, were surprised by what happened across the global financial markets today.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not surprised, but deeply worried is the way the markets will be regarding this. And just look, I'm going to sort of save the best for last, if you like. You have Paris down two-and-a-half, London one-and-a-third, Frankfurt down two-and- a-quarter, but it is in Milan, the MIBTel Index where we saw a thumping big loss, nearly 5 percent because on the back of that election result, that indecision.
And banks were hammered. The major banks all felt the full ferocity as the market dropped 800 points. And it wasn't only, Becky, it wasn't only equities that suffered. If you look at yield. Now the yield has risen on the 10 year government bond to nearly 5 percent. It was a little bit higher. It came back a bit. A long way under the pain threshold of 7 percent, which of course would mean that you would have to actually move on -- would have to move to seeking ECB help.
The core of this is the warning that is ahead. Equities, bonds, currencies, they're all enmeshed in what happens next with the players in Italy's election. And this is the issue. The two houses that you know you're going to be talking a lot about over the course of the hour. Bersani has a slim majority in the deputies and failed to get one in the senate. And now, of course, Monti unlikely to play much of a major role. Berlusconi very much angling, or at least his party is, to see what can be agreed, and right in the middle Grillo, Grillo who is by far and away the king maker in all of this.
It is the sort of intricacy, Becky, this sort of worry whether you're talking about the EuroZone's third largest economy behind Italy -- between Germany and France and then Italy. It is exactly this sort of worry that's causing this sort of market turmoil.
ANDERSON: Richard, in an exclusive interview I spoke to Beppe Grillo earlier on today. He's not eligible to be prime minister, of course, after a manslaughter conviction in 1981. But his party has certainly shaken up Italian politics. Earlier I asked him whether he's spoken to the other candidates. Have a listen to this.
BEPPE GRILLO, LEADER, FIVE STAR MOVEMENT (through translator): It's not about having dialogue between myself and Bersani and Berlusconi. What do I say to them? There is not dialogue between us and the others. They are dead. They are people that haven't got anything to share with us. I won't have anything to say to them. I will just maybe put up a zero and say that's it, all I have to say, good bye.
You know, sad. I can do (inaudible) but it will last 20, 30 months to a year, then it will be over. This is -- you have to look at this from a psychiatry point of view. This is an epidemic. This movement is like an epidemic, like a virus.
ANDERSON: You're telling me there will be no stitch ups big or small. You won't be doing any deals with any other parties, which brings about effectively the worst case scenario, a hung parliament, no stable government here and the possibility, the probability of elections once again.
The financial markets at least are selling off Italian assets today in anticipation of that worst-case scenario. Doesn't that bother you?
GRILLO (through translator): The economy is a disaster, it's a disaster, a total disaster. I don't understand what the question will be, but we have to bring hope to the country, anything that our movement has brought hope -- a lot of people have lost their job and then we have to say and start saving the small and medium sized enterprise and to get incentives for people to invest here. We've been to Slovenia, to Switzerland, but it will be the opposite. We want them to come here to Italy.
ANDERSON: What's your message to other European leaders, to Angela Merkel, for example. You campaigned on a ticket of a euro referendum. Are you looking for Italy to pull out of the EuroZone?
GRILLO (through translator): The message that I want to send out is that I'm convinced European for another Europe, no the Europe of Merkel, of the spread, we would like to talk about the economy, not about finance. We would like to talk about democracy, not about the spread. We would like to talk about things in another way. And therefore the fact of the way we came out is not important. We have to talk again about the interest rate we're paying on our deficit, the decision to be part of the euro or not is not something that I can decide myself, neither Merkel, nor Mr. -- the rating agencies.
The decision has to be made by the Italian people by a referendum. We would like to amend the constitution with a positive referendum when the Italians, after having the correct information, can make their own decisions.
ANDERSON: The vote for Beppe Grillo was a protest vote, but just to underline how many people here protested against the status quo, he got 25 percent of the vote and 25 percent of people didn't vote. We are looking at 50 percent, half of the eligible voters here protesting what is going on in Italy at present.
Well, with Grillo refusing to support either side, center-right or center-left, where does that leave three-time prime minister Silvio Berlusconi. He is also anti-austerity. We're going to find out more coming up in around 20 minutes time when a member of Berlusconi's party joins me here in Rome.
Well, as Italy battles with its political future, the direction of the worldwide Catholic church is playing out right here behind me in Vatican City. Pope Benedict XVI is preparing for his final public audience, that is Wednesday. But a scandal involving this top cardinal is just one story casting a shadow. What a former colleague of Keith O'Brien has to say is up next.
And also in Italy tonight, fine for Inter Milan after their fans were found guilty of racial abuse. But is it enough?
Plus, a survivor's tale as we investigate Tuesday's deadly tragedy in Egypt. We're going to hear from someone who lived through a similar harrowing balloon crash. You are watching Connect the World live from Rome in Italy this evening. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: From a pretty noisy Rome this evening. Welcome back to this special edition of Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. Apologies for the noise. We keep an eye on Italy's dramatic political deadlock. We are also following historic events at the Vatican, the seat of the spiritual and governing -- or seat effectively of the Roman Catholic Church just behind me. Two more days only until Pope Benedict makes way for a new spiritual leader of that church and for Catholics 1.2 or 1.3 billion Catholics around the world. It's a monumental occasion for the church and perhaps a chance to try again to put a linger controversy to rest.
The sexual abuse scandal didn't start under Benedict's papacy, but it didn't end there either. Consider these facts, church officials have said between 1.5 percent to 5 percent of priests worldwide have been involved in child sex abuse. In the past two decades, scandals have erupted in at least 25 countries, including Britain, France, Germany, Ireland, Canada, and Italy.
In the U.S., the church has paid out over $2 billion in abuse related costs and damages in more than 5,000 cases. Just consider those figures for a moment.
And of course the latest step back came just yesterday when Britain's most senior Catholic cleric resigned. Cardinal Keith O'Brien, he was archbishop of Scotland, faces accusations of inappropriate behavior with priests. He said he will not take part in choosing a new pope.
Well, today a former colleague of O'Brien described him as, and I quote, "a very honest man."
Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor spoke to CNN's Atika Shubert.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARDINAL CORMAC MURPHY-O'CONNOR, FORMER ARCHBISHOP OF WESTMINSTER; He was very calm. He told me that he had decided not to go to the conclave.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, just very saddened. The allegations have been made, but the cardinal has contested them, as you know. And now an apostolic administration, a senior bishop will go into the diocese to rule it. And naturally and presumably he will look at the allegations to see if this -- what needs to be done.
SHUBERT: Now the men that came forward with these allegations say that they did so because they wanted a quote, unquote clean conclave. What's your response to that?
MURPHY-O'CONNOR: Now we need to concentrate on the cardinals who will be there discussing what's needed in terms of reform and renewal in the church and the qualities needed for the new pope. The church must always be reformed, because the church is composed of people who are faithful, but sinful, too, and therefore at times things go wrong. So reform in the church is a perennial -- it carries on. And I think how is it done? Well, it's done by repentance, a chance of life and also in particular cases of actually putting in processes which mean that scandals don't happen again.
SHUBERT: Now we've never been in this situation when a pope has resigned at the same time the Catholic church is beset by scandals. How will the conclave be different this time around?
MURPHY-O'DONNOR: The church has to face up to things that have gone wrong, but it's also got to carry on its normal duty of witnessing, preaching and celebrating the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. and therefore I think when the cardinals are looking for a pope, or talking about possibilities, they'll look for somebody who is strong in governance, but a holy man, a prayerful man, who will be able to give that example and that kind of leadership.
(END VIEDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Cardinal speaking there to Atika Shubert.
The church has had to fend off one scandal after another in recent years, hasn't it? Can it recover and finally leave all this controversy behind?
Let's bring in CNN senior Vatican analyst John Allen who has been with me here for the past couple of days sort of just kind of digesting what's been going on. And it is I guess a very simple question, perhaps not a simple answer, can it leave this controversy behind it?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, you know, the lesson of the last decade is this is a much longer fix than I think church leaders initially hoped. I think initially they hoped that these revelations roll out, they would institute tough policies, people would think the church had cleaned up its act and they would move on. Obviously it has not played out that way.
I think the reality is the Catholic church has taken exceptional steps to try to fix this problem. It has spent billions of dollars in background checks and training and abuse detection and prevention and so on, but you know, Becky, the reality is that as long as the take on the street is that bishop who covered up these crimes have not been held accountable I think it is going to be very difficult for the church to turn around the blow to its moral authority this crisis has taken.
ANDERSON: Two days of events effectively, which will close out this papacy and lead us into what is known as conclave and the election of a new pope. Just walk me through the sort of logistics of that and the characters that we should expect at this point?
ALLEN: Well, the logistics are actually fairly simple. What's going to happen is that next week the cardinals will be -- once the papacy is formally over -- the cardinals will begin meeting formally in daily meetings where they talk about the issues facing the church, the qualities the next pope needs to have. Simultaneous to all that, of course, they're going to be meeting informally in national colleges here in Rome and the apartments of cardinals who live in the Vatican who can host gatherings. And that's really where the cigars are chomped and the horses are traded as they do the political heavy lifting to try to figure out who the next pope ought to be.
In terms of what they're looking for, I think in very broad strokes they're looking for three things. I mean, first, they're looking for somebody who has a global vision who can embrace not just the Catholics in Brussels and London, but also the burgeoning Catholic population in places like Buenos Aires and Jakarta and Abuja in Nigeria.
Second, they want somebody who can evangelize, who can be a missionary, who can project a positive face and voice for the church.
And third, they want somebody who is a governor who is going to take control of this institution not just on the scandals, but also on the day- to-day business management side of the Vatican and make it work.
ANDERSON: Is there an obvious governor amongst those who are eligible to vote?
ALLEN: Well, Becky, I think the problem is there is no clear frontrunner in this race on any one of those three criteria, let alone all three of them taken together. There are candidates who have strong governance background, but don't necessarily profile as great salesmen for the church or men who have a very cosmopolitan background. The hard part about this is, is to find the one guy who comes close enough on all three of those criteria that he presents himself as electable.
ANDERSON: John Allen with you this evening with his expert analysis. It's going to be, well, I guess interesting times as (inaudible) the wrong religion to quote at this point.
ALLEN: Well, if you want a sports metaphor, Becky, in my line of work, this is the superbowl.
ANDERSON: There you go. John Allen in the house tonight with me in Rome. You're watching a special edition of Connect the World live from Italy.
Still to come, a behind the scenes look at what is a very secretive process. How exactly is that new pope selected?
Still to come a behind the scenes look at what is a very secretive process. How exactly is that new pope selected? We're going to explain everything from the first ballot to that last puff of smoke.
But first, in the aftermath of Luxor's deadly balloon accident, Egypt may be facing new problems.
Stay with us, you're watching Connect the World.
ANDERSON: Well, a tragedy in Egypt. Investigators have been searching a field near Luxor where a sightseeing balloon crashed and burned on Tuesday killing 19 people, most of them Asian and European tourists. A witness says the pilot was trying to land when a mishap caused the balloon to rise suddenly and then burst into flames. It's the world's deadliest balloon accident in 20 years.
Reza Sayah joining me now live from Luxor. What are the details, Reza?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, new details of this balloon crash are emerging. And they're absolutely horrifying. Based on what we've learned, we know that at one point, most of these victims, most of these tourists, were inside an out of control balloon that was on fire. And it is very likely that at least some of them knew they were going to die, but there was very little they can do.
These new details emerge at a news conference here earlier tonight in the city of Luxor where this accident happened, right outside of the city. According to investigators who were at this news conference, this balloon was three meters away from landing when something went terribly wrong. Fire erupted. And all of a sudden this balloon started rapidly ascending once again.
The passengers on board, these tourists, probably had seconds to decide whether to jump out of the balloon or hold on and stay inside. At least three of the passengers, including the pilot, jumped out according to officials, the rest of the tourists held on. They went up with the balloon that eventually disintegrated in the air and plummeted to the ground. 19 people killed, according to officials, nine of them Hong Kong nationals, two British citizens among the other victims -- some Japanese citizens and some French citizens.
The company that owned this hot air balloon, Sky Cruises, is being investigated, Becky. Officials have grounded all hot air balloon rides until the investigation is complete -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Those are remarkable and disturbing pictures out of Luxor, Cairo this evening. Reza, thank you for that.
And later this hour, I'm going to talk an expert who knows the balloon industry in Egypt very, very well and will give us some sense of what might have happened and what might happen next. And quite frankly, the safety of these sort of journeys for any of us who might be thinking about taking one in the future.
Also coming up, a final senate vote is expected shortly to confirm Chuck Hagel is defense secretary. And the U.S. is going to bring you live coverage of that vote on Capitol Hill. The former Nebraska senator has had to fight after being nominated for the top job at the Pentagon. He's drawn criticism from Republicans over past statements on national security issues. Nevertheless, his nomination is expected to pass.
"Well, it's wonderful to be back in Berlin." With those words, spoken in German, new U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry did more than offer happy childhood memories to his German hosts earlier on his first foreign trip. As America's top diplomat, Kerry pledged Washington's commitment to an upcoming EU-U.S. trade agreements.
Now Germany is America's biggest trading partner in Europe. And Kerry on a nine country dash through Europe starting there then moving on to the Middle East. On his first stop, though, in London he hit back at the notion that the U.S. isn't doing enough to help the Syrian opposition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLip0
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE; We are determined that the Syrian opposition is not going to be dangling in the wind, wondering where the support is or if it's coming. And we are determined to change the calculation on the ground for President Assad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: John Kerry there.
Well, Syria's main opposition group appears to have taken that message to heart. The activists now say they'll be at the table for the Friends of Syria talks in Rome, here in fact, reversing and earlier threat to boycott the conference. The talks of trying to end the violence that has taken nearly 70,000 Syrian lives.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has been following developments from neighboring Lebanon.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, two days of really complex diplomacy around Syria. First, the opposition said they weren't going to attend the vital Friend of Syria meeting in Rome, and then after intervention by John Kerry and Vice President Joe Biden they will be attending.
Much on the agenda there, above all John Kerry saying that they won't leave rebels dangling in the wind, that they want to change the calculation on the ground for the Syrian regime. But in the minds of the opposition that means one thing and that's arms, and that's something both the EU and the Obama administration doesn't want to contemplate.
There will be moves, perhaps to provide them in more sophisticated non-lethal equipment, but that gulf in expectation will always remain and sour meetings between both sides.
There's a parallel process continuing as well. We heard Monday from the Syrian regime that they were prepared to talk to rebels carrying arms. And of course Russia appears to be playing a role here, pushing them into talks. Sergei Lavrov meeting for the first time with John Kerry, his American counterpart in Berlin Tuesday. So perhaps that's a bid to bring both sides to the table.
But even if that diplomacy actually starts happen, we now have the summer months happening, increased pressure and violence around Damascus. Certainly the regime want a back foot. Rebels emboldened by better weaponry. And many wondering really whether it's simply too late for diplomacy -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh reporting there.
Well, latest world news headlines are just ahead as you would imagine at the bottom of the hour here on CNN, including what may be next for Italy. I'll be talking live to a member of Silvio Berlusconi's party about his anti-austerity movement.
Footballer Mario Balotelli get hits in the wallet over an insulting gesture to fans, but his former club suffers worse.
Those stories coming up. We're live in Rome, Italy for you this evening. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back. This is CONNECT THE WORLD live from Rome for you tonight. The top stories this hour.
Stalemate in Italy, where no party is in a clear position to form a government after parliamentary elections here. Pier Luigi Bersani's center-left group does lead by a narrow margin. If no one, though, can build a strong coalition out of the results, Italy could face another vote and months of uncertainty.
Egyptian investigators are searching a field near Luxor. That's where a sightseeing balloon crashed and burned on Tuesday, killing 19 Asian and European tourists. A witness says the pilot was trying to land when the balloon suddenly rose and burst into flames.
Chuck Hagel could be confirmed shortly as the new US defense secretary. The US Senate is holding the confirmation vote as we speak. The former Nebraska senator has had to fight criticism from Republicans over past statements on national security issues. His nomination, though, is expected to win approval. Those are live pictures out of Washington for you. As we get that nomination, we will bring it to you.
Well, new US secretary of state John Kerry has been meeting with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, in Berlin. Before the meeting, Kerry said he hoped to bridge differences with Russia on the Syria crisis. The secretary is set to attend a conference on the conflict in Syria later this week in Rome.
All right. Italians here in Rome and across the country could find themselves going back to the ballot box. What needs to happen now is for these two bloc leaders to try and build a strong enough coalition to govern.
The trouble is, Pier Luigi Bersani, shown on the right, backs the policy of austerity, to a certain extent, following on from Mario Monti's technocrat government for the last 14 months, whereas former prime minister -- three times prime minister -- Silvio Berlusconi, you can see on the left, does not.
So, can they do a deal? Well, joining me here in Rome is Deborah Bergamini, who is a member of Berlusconi's People of Freedom party.
And the reason I ask whether Berlusconi can be a kingmaker at this point is quite simply because the man who ought to be providing that kingmaking opportunity is a man called Beppe Grillo, whose Five Star Movement got -- what? -- a quarter of the vote.
He told me quite explicitly tonight and in no uncertain terms, even though he's got a hundred lawmakers in a government that he won't do a deal, he will not negotiate, he wants no bargaining. He says the status quo should be blown up, and these two characters, Bersani and Berlusconi are of the old guard. What happens next?
DEBORAH BERGAMINI, MEMBER OF BERLUSCONI'S PEOPLE OF FREEDOM PARTY: This is the question to all of us. Now, the situation, the political scenario, is really difficult even to understand for analysts, and more difficult to make decisions.
Now, the parliament will start on the 15th of March, so there are still a few days for reflection on all parties' parts. Yes, Grillo has been saying no bargaining, no nothing, no alliances. But at the same time, he's been saying to day we will see once in the parliament. We have a program, we have a platform, and we'll see who is going to be in favor of that.
ANDERSON: Yes. We will see, but he's, like I say, told me explicitly tonight he's not going to do any deals with either the center-left or the center-right. You are from the center-right, which leads me to the next question. Can Berlusconi at this point be a kingmaker?
I'm sure people around the world might be quite shocked to hear a man who was facing not just domestic economic turmoil back in November 2011 and his own personal problems, with court cases, et cetera, is now back in the fray. Are we looking at a Bersani-Berlusconi deal going forward here in order to stabilize things at least?
BERGAMINI: Berlusconi has said one thing. I don't think that going soon to vote again would be a good thing for the country --
ANDERSON: You don't want another election.
BERGAMINI: Not -- definitely not. Because he's saying we need reforms, we need to go ahead, and we cannot keep the country stuck again for another turn of elections.
On the other hand, Bersani has been quite explicit as well. He said no dealing with the PDL, which is Berlusconi's party.
ANDERSON: Yes, right. So you've got two very different parties here and you've got a character that, quite frankly -- let me say it, I know you're not going to say it -- that nobody wants to do any business with, and that is Berlusconi.
You've got a man in Berlusconi in your party that says we're looking for what is anti-austerity going forward, that everything that's been happening is, quite frankly, too painful for Italians. And you've got Bersani saying listen, we've got to get on with things because the Europeans want us to.
Let me just put one thing to you. Beppe Grillo got a quarter of the vote. Another quarter of Italians didn't vote. The protest voice is so loud here that it's almost deafening, isn't it?
BERGAMINI: They protested very loud, that's true. In Greece, people are protesting in the squares. Here in Italy, people are protesting through Grillo's movement inside the parliament, which is a good thing, in a sense.
Now, I wouldn't say that nobody wants to bargain with Berlusconi at all. Please don't forget that he's been -- the coalition of my party has received 30 percent of the vote, which unless you believe that Italians are stupid, means something.
I know that international media have been very much concentrated on Mr. Berlusconi's cases in justice and so on, but we need to add that Berlusconi has been the most persecuted --
ANDERSON: Well, he's appealing a conviction for tax fraud and facing trial on charges of prostitution with a minor.
ANDERSON: And those aren't small issues, are they?
BERGAMINI: That's not exactly -- the prostitution with a minor's not exactly the thing. But that issue is technical, and we don't have enough time. What I want to say is that there has been since 1994 right at the very beginning of Berlusconi's political career a clash between himself, his party, and a specific part of the judges of the magistrate who were against him coming to power.
And this is something that is very clear to the Italians, and it's something that must be kept into consideration when you're trying to see the real scenario around Berlusconi. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to explain why he's getting so many votes.
ANDERSON: We're talking the real scenario, not just around Berlusconi and Bersani and Beppe Grillo tonight, but also, of course, around what's going on behind me here at Vatican City and, indeed, on the football pitch of Milan just in the past few days. We thank you very much, indeed, Deborah, for joining us here on CONNECT THE WORLD --
BERGAMINI: You are very welcome.
ANDERSON: -- this evening. And turning to sports, Italian football club Inter Milan have been fined 50,000 euros over racist fan behavior. Don Riddell joining me now.
Your thoughts on this fine, Don. It's being criticized by some as too light. And this story, let's remind our viewers, has got a number of legs. Let's kick off with this fine for the club, though.
DON RIDDELL, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well I would agree that 50,000 euros or $65,000, is rather light, although it is a bigger fine than the one Inter Milan received only last month when their fans also abused Mario Balotelli.
Let's break this one down for you. This is relating to the Milan Derby at the weekend, the game that finished in a one-all draw. Mario Balotelli was very much front and center in that game. He used to play for Inter Milan, now he plays for AC Milan.
It was determined that some sections of the crowd, some of the fans in the game, taunted him with racial abuse. There were discriminatory banners, there was even a laser pen that was aimed at some of the players' eyes. And so for that, the fine has been handed out today, 50,000 euros.
Balotelli -- it has to be said, this is really no fault of his at all, but he is known to have left Inter Milan a few years ago, one of the reasons being that he was sick and tired of the racial abuse in Italian football.
And this is just the latest example with in the last few weeks. As I mentioned, Inter's fans just a few weeks ago were fined for racially abusing Mario Balotelli in a game in which he wasn't even playing. Inter weren't even playing AC Milan on that occasion.
And of course, only last month, we also saw the AC Milan captain, Kevin-Prince Boateng lead his team off the field during a friendly game against Pro Patria because he was being subjected to racial abuse by the fans.
So, Italian football continues to have a problem, Becky. They say they want to take it seriously, they say they want to stamp it out, but I do wonder if fines like $65,000 are really going to have any effect.
RIDDELL: I think if they start docking points --
ANDERSON: And that was absolute --
RIDDELL: That's from the --
ANDERSON: And that was absolutely my thought. A quick question before we move on here. How do you go about sorting out the scourge that is racism in Italian football. And it's not just here, but let's just concentrate on Italy tonight, because things are not good here.
RIDDELL: Well it's -- it's a very big topic, and I'm not going to be able to grapple with this in the next 30 seconds, but a lot of people point to what they did in British football. You and I know what that was like in the 70s and 80s. It was absolutely horrendous.
But one of the ways you make the clubs deal with it is you make them take ownership of the problem. So you make them responsible for their own fans.
One of the ways they were able to do it in Britain in the 80s going into the 90s was that the stadiums became all-seater stadiums. Most of the games were all-ticket, or at least a lot of the fans were put on membership schemes. And then you really kind of have a lot more ownership of the fans, and it makes it a lot easier to control who you're letting in and out of your grounds.
But we do know that Italy is a very different situation, and of course, you've got fan groups who are very, very powerful and very politically motivated as well. And it's very difficult for the clubs to deal with it. But they need to.
ANDERSON: I gave you more than 30 seconds. I knew you'd have something of quality to say. Great analysis there by Don Riddell out of CNN Center for you this evening.
This is a special edition of CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson, live for you this evening out of Rome. Just ahead, Egypt reels from a tragic hot air balloon crash. We're going to be talking to a safety expert who recently visited that very country. That is next. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson for you. Returning to one of our top stories this hour out of Egypt, 19 people have been killed in a tragic accident in the skies above Luxor.
A hot air balloon exploded and plunged some 300 meters to the ground. A gas explosion is said to be the cause. Well, the passengers were tourists from Europe and from Asia.
The governor of Luxor province has banned all hot air balloon flights until further notice. The last accident in Luxor happened in 2009 when 16 tourists were injured after their balloon struck a mobile phone transmission tower.
According to the "Guardian" newspaper, four Scottish tourists were seriously hurt when their balloon went down in Luxor in April 2008. And sadly, a similar crash landing in 2007 injured eight sightseers and two Egyptians.
Balloon safety expert Phil Dunnington recently visited Egypt to check out the safety conditions, and he joins me now via Skype from Bristol in England. And just to see those pictures, it is so frightening, you can only imagine what those tourists were going through. Phil, when you see what happened, were you surprised?
PHIL DUNNINGTON, BALLOON SAFETY CONSULTANT: -- and to hear about an aviation accident, a ballooning accident like this, particularly a major tragedy.
But you have to put it in context of the fact that there is a huge amount of ballooning done in Luxor and in many other parts of the world. Many, many thousands of passengers, many flights every year, and occasionally, things do go wrong as they clearly did this morning.
ANDERSON: Yes. Shocked, then, but not necessarily surprised, you're telling me, Phil, as we show our viewers once again these dramatic and incredibly shocking pictures coming to us of that balloon as it sadly exploded in mid-air.
For those watching this broadcast tonight who may in the past have taken a balloon flight and may be thinking about doing it again, for those who've never taken a balloon flight and are thinking that they might in the future, what is your message tonight?
DUNNINGTON: Well, the message is that ballooning is still one of the safest aviation activities, and like any kind of transportation, you do occasionally get accidents of this sort. And shocking as they are, it doesn't mean that ballooning itself is inherently dangerous.
It's a question of whether the safety and training facilities and the oversight in place were appropriate, and that's no doubt something that the Egyptian authorities will be looking into in the coming weeks and months.
ANDERSON: All right. Well, I want to talk to you about Egypt specifically. Before I do, though, Linda Lea survived that 2009 balloon crash in Luxor that I alluded to earlier, and she talked to us a little earlier today about her experience. Just have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA LEA, BALLOON CRASH SURVIVOR: When I first listened to the news, when they said that, it just brought such a vivid picture. And what I actually saw that morning when I came to, when I was -- trapped in the bottom of the balloon basket.
And it was just such a vivid picture in my head. We had to pull over. I couldn't drive any further for a while.
And when we hit the ground and I heard the snap and I knew it was my legs, I blacked out. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: It hardly bears thinking about, does it? Phil, finally, you know the Egyptian balloon industry, you've been there and looked at its safety aspects. Would you take a balloon ride there anytime soon? Would you suggest that I did, your family did?
DUNNINGTON: Well, I think there are good apples and bad apples, and certainly some of the people in Luxor are both good pilots and professional operators. But there are some areas which I think need looking at, and certainly those are areas that I have brought to the attention of the Egyptian authorities in recent times. Whether they are related to today's accident, we can't say. It's too early.
ANDERSON: Phil, we thank you for that. Your expert on the subject this evening, a very sad day there in Egypt. Well, today's balloon crash certainly hit home for CNN's own chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour.
She says it was a what-if moment, because she recently flew in one of those balloons with her son, Darius. They were in Egypt last summer filming a documentary on the Old Testament. Christiane says the pilot instructed them on what to do in case of a crash, and they took it seriously. She says little did they know how lucky they were.
And Christiane will be joining us right after the break to talk about another big story today, Pope Benedict's final day before retirement. Before we do that, Christiane, just a thought before we go to the short break, just a though on what you've seen today.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I thought, obviously, for all those tourists, all their families and friends. And for Egypt as well. Egypt's industry, Egypt's tourism industry.
Look, there are always risks in whatever we do. We were given the safety instructions. I was there with my whole film crew. And as I say, there but for the grace of God went all of us.
But we do hope that Egypt will pick up. This is a vital lifeline. It's such an amazing experience to be able to actually take those balloon flights over the Valley of the Kings, the Nile delta, the Luxor temple, all the ancient glories of Egypt. And it's such a fun experience, so I hope that this is just once in a very bad moment.
ANDERSON: It is quite the most phenomenal experience. Christiane staying with us. We're going to take a very short break. After that, we are going to talk about that other big story of the day, Pope Benedict's final days before retirement. The Vatican sharing new details about what awaits him, including a new title and even a new pair of shoes.
You're watching a special edition of CONNECT THE WORLD. Do stay with us.
ANDERSON: St. Peter's Square at the Vatican will be overflowing with tens of thousands of pilgrims tomorrow, all anxious to see the pope as he holds his final public audience. He is expected to ride in his trademark white popemobile through the crowd.
And the Vatican says after that and after he steps down on Thursday, he can still be called His Holiness Benedict XVI, but he'll have the additional title of Pope Emeritus -- I can never say that word as well. Well, hopefully they can. The Vatican also announced a change in his attire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS ROSICA, FATHER, VATICAN PRESS SECRETARY: He will wear a simple white cassock without the mosette, I think it's called, the little cape on top, a simple white cassock. A very important point are the shoes. They will no longer be the red shoes that you've seen him wear, but he has chosen to keep brown shoes that were given to him on his recent trip to Mexico in Leon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: It does sound all a bit basic, doesn't it? But these things are important in the history and the sort of -- the whole sort of thing about the Roman Church -- the Roman Catholic Church.
Christiane is with me. Given the sort of news that we've had out of the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican -- Vatican City, of course, just behind us here -- over the past couple of days, all this sounded a bit basic. But as I suggested, it's important to the tradition, of course.
AMANPOUR: Well, it is important to the tradition, and it's important to the billion or so more Roman Catholics around the world who truly are hanging on every word about the pope. Look, we're all here. There are many, many other journalists here from around the world reporting on these final days.
We do know that after he steps down, which is at 5:00 PM officially, he leaves on Thursday. And then by 8:00 PM Rome time on Thursday, he is no longer pope, and then the Sede Vacante starts, the empty seat, and after that, they start gathering cardinals and having their formal meetings.
And then after they've formally met, they decide when to hold the actual conclave, which then actually elects the next pope.
ANDERSON: Well, many of our viewers may be wondering exactly how that next pope is selected. His cardinals gather at the Vatican behind closed doors. The world's eyes will be locked on a chimney.
AMANPOUR: Yes, indeed.
ANDERSON: This is St. Peter's square in the state of Vatican City, the spiritual and governing seat of the Roman Catholic Church. And it's here that tens of thousands of pilgrims gather to await the election of a new pope. And it's here, behind me, just in the corner in the Vatican's Sistine Chapel that the new pontiff is chosen.
TEXT: WHERE DOES THE VOTE HAPPEN?
ANDERSON: Well, the Sistine Chapel was designed to be the papal chapel. It's one of the world's most famous galleries of Biblical art, its ceiling painted by Michelangelo. And it's here that the Conclaves of Cardinals is held.
TEXT: WHO VOTES?
ANDERSON: One hundred and fifteen cardinals are expected to gather to invoke the Holy Spirit for assistance before electing a pope by secret ballot. The cardinals behind closed doors, cut off from the outside world, will chose a leader.
TEXT: HOW DOES THE VOTING WORK?
ANDERSON: During the period of conclave, the cardinals will be staying in accommodation just over there. They'll be bused in. And on the first day of conclave, eligible cardinals may hold a vote. If there is no result, on subsequent days, they'll vote twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon until someone receives a vote of two-thirds plus one.
TEXT: WHAT DOES THE SMOKE MEAN?
ANDERSON: Since the cardinals meet in isolation, the only way the public knows about proceedings is one of the most famous traditions of the papal succession ritual: the appearance of smoke from a chimney over there at the conclave room.
The ballots are burned after each vote. Black smoke from that chimney indicates a failed ballot. White smoke means a new pope has been elected.
Shortly after the decision has been signaled, the new pope will appear in front of a throng of onlookers and give his first apostolic blessing from the window over there.
ANDERSON: We don't yet know when that moment, of course, will be. As you suggest, I think March 1st, Friday, after the pope has resigned and gone, we'll find out.
AMANPOUR: Well, after the pope has resigned, when it's over, as one of our colleagues said, at 8:01 on Thursday, all the cardinals are going to start talking to each other. They're going to be sent official word to come to Rome, even though all of them practically are already here, that's a formality.
They're unlikely, we're told, to meet over the weekend, so their first formal meeting of all these cardinals is likely to be Monday, which is March the 4th, and then after that, they'll decide when to hold the conclave.
ANDERSON: Could be I'm guessing around March 10, what do you think?
AMANPOUR: Well, that's what we're being told. Let's see: 9, 10, 11? And then, how long will it last?
ANDERSON: She's not a betting woman, is she?
AMANPOUR: No, I'm not.
AMANPOUR: Only when I'm sure.
ANDERSON: Christiane with us this evening, thank you for that, Christiane. Before we go, we want to cross over to Washington, where the US Senate moments ago voted to confirm US president Barack Obama's nomination for secretary of defense, Chuck Hagel.
Hagel's nomination, of course, has been subject to harsh criticism from some of his fellow Republicans. They've called the former senator to task over past statements on sensitive political and national security matters.
Well, the decorated Vietnam veteran has been critical of the Iraq War and the Patriot Act and his past positions on Iran and on US military intervention have raised red flags with his opponents. But again, Chuck Hagel has been confirmed as the new US secretary of defense.
That's it, from myself and, indeed, from Christiane here live this evening, that was CONNECT THE WORLD, thank you for watching.