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Christie, They're Not That Into You; Yahoo's Mommy Wars; Immigration Detainees Released Before Cuts

Aired February 27, 2013 - 19:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, are Chris Christie and the Republican Party breaking up? The man who decided not to invite the gov to the biggest GOP event of the year is OUTFRONT.

Plus the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agency is releasing hundreds of detainees, some say it's because of the forced spending cuts. Is that real or just a total scare tactic?

And Yahoo!'s new jobs policy igniting a firestorm of controversy. It is growing by the day into a complete conflagration. The company defends itself. Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT, Chris Christie, maybe they're just not into you. Times seem to have changed a bit for the New Jersey governor. It wasn't too long ago that conservatives were crushing on the tough-talking Christie. Here's one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard Rush Limbaugh say.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Is it wrong to love another man? Because I love Chris Christie.


BURNETT: Where's the love now? The powerful Conservative Political Action Conference, to annual D.C. event that turns into a Republican Party of who's who is not even giving the governor an invitation. The reason, he's just not conservative enough.

So while all the 2016 White House hopefuls from his party, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, they're parading around the conference next month. It's like a bunch of peacocks going around, showing your colors. Are you red enough?

Chris Christie will be left out in the cold, but don't worry. This is what people love about Christie. He does not give a wit. He is who he is. Here he is today in the video obtained by the "New Jersey Star Ledger."


GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Yes, apparently I haven't been invited. Listen, I wish them all the best. They're going to have their conference. They're going to have a bunch of people speaking there. They don't want to invite me. That's their call. It's their organization, it's their business. I can't sweat the small stuff. I have a state to rebuild.


BURNETT: OUTFRONT tonight, Al Cardenas, he is the chairman of the American Conservative Union, which organizes CPAC. Al, I appreciate you taking the time between Rush Limbaugh and Chris Christie there, my breath has been taken away. But it does sound like you're just not that into Chris Christie?

AL CARDENAS, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: I don't know. You know, the CPAC is like for professional sports, the all- star game. Some years you get in and some years you don't. We have hundreds of people to choose from and we always have two standards.

How relevant are you this year and did you earn it? And Chris Christie was a favorite a year ago. That's why we had him at CPAC. You know, he cut spending, he balanced the budget, he brought school choice, he was a darling of conservatives, and we gave him a great reception.

This year, he was for the spending bill of $60-some billion. He was for the Medicaid expansion in his state. So this year he didn't get one. I hope he gets back to the old form so we can have him again next year.

BURNETT: But Paul Ryan's coming, right, and he voted for a $600 billion tax cut at the beginning of the year. That's ten times more than Chris Christie.

CARDENAS: Well, you know, Paul Ryan is the advocate of the ten- year plan balanced budget. He's fighting hard to get that done. I think if you take his work as a whole, he deserved an invitation. It will be a great CPAC. We're very excited.

As you know, we have more registrants this year than we've ever had. And if anybody has any doubt that the conservative movement is here to fight back, come to CPAC. It will be a great event.

BURNETT: All right, but I'm curious, though, because you know, Chris Christie is a popular guy, 74 percent approval rating.


BURNETT: He, by -- who knows what's going to happen in the next few years, right? But he could be the best thing your party has going. I don't get why it isn't a mistake to just not include the guy?

CARDENAS: Well, look, there are two things we like to do. We want to, one, give you an attaboy if you've been a good conservative. And two, hopefully serve, I say, as an incentive for you to be a conservative. So I hope Chris Christie gets it done this year. Listen, he's always been a crowd favorite, but you've got to be a, conservative on that particular year in order to get invited.

BURNETT: So bottom line, it's the $60 billion spending bill that you're upset about. It's not that he has restrictive gun control laws in his state. It's not that he's sort of been making noises that he doesn't want to go into the whole gay marriage thing? Right, it's not social?

CARDENAS: Listen, we invited him last year when all those issues were known. So, obviously, we've got a different economic perspective this year to judge him by.

BURNETT: All right, Al, thank you very much.

And one man who's no stranger to the conservative wing of his party is former presidential candidate, Rick Santorum. What do you think of this snub of Chris Christie? I'm still recovering from Rush Limbaugh's throaty lust-a-thon for Chris Christie.

RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He never said that about me, so -- look, Al Cardenas and CPAC can invite who they want. I'm happy to be invited. I look forward to go and speaking. We're going to have a big presence of organization patriot voices there.

We're going to have luncheon. We're doing a lot of things to talk and to try to rally conservatives at a time as you look over my shoulder and look at that capital, you don't see a lot of conservatives fighting for the principles that made our country great. And hopefully we can rally at that CPAC conference and move out from there.

BURNETT: All right, well, I'm still trying to understand, though, why this isn't -- I mean, you have this pictures, right, of Chris Christie and Barack Obama, right before the election.

And I know, by the way, today, Mitt Romney just gave money to Chris Christie's gubernatorial campaign. So Mitt doesn't seem to be holding a grudge. But a lot of people were really upset about that, thought it was influential in the election.

I'm just wondering if this was a part of it. The Paul Ryan voting for $600 billion in tax increases seems to be a way bigger violation than a $60 billion spending bill.

SANTORUM: Well, I can't make any comments on a decision that an organization made. I mean, they invited me, they didn't invite Chris, they have the reasons, you heard them. My feeling is, you know, the Republican Party, the great thing about the Republican Party, it's unlike the Democratic Party.

There is a fair amount of diversity in our party. You guys on CNN, as well as other networks, spend a lot of time talking about the divisions in the Republican Party. And then you try to -- you make the claim, well, you know, the Democratic Party is a more inclusive party. Well, wait a minute, there is no division of the Democratic Party. You don't talk about any divisions in the Democratic Party. So who is the real inclusive party and who isn't? So I think, that's actually a fairly good topic of conversation.

BURNETT: All right, well, let's talk about that because one reason people say that is because with gay marriage, right, and tomorrow the former chairman of the RNC, Ken Mehlman is going to submit a brief to the Supreme Court. We expect him to at least, right, in support of same-sex marriage.

One hundred prominent Republicans have signed this. He agrees with you, I'm not trying to divide the GOP, but he wants to make a difference. It's often with great respect to the court. But if you are really a party that includes everybody, why take such a strong stance against gay marriage?

SANTORUM: Well, why take a strong stance for it? I mean, we all should bring to the table what we think is in the best interests of the country. And I know Ken, and I like Ken. I've worked with Ken for years. And Ken and I disagree on this issue. We disagree adamantly on this issue.

But I respect his right to go to the court and to make his case, and go to the American public, which is even more important, in my opinion. You know, the one concern I have is that, you know, there's an attempt to have the courts decide this issue and not the American public.

And in that respect, I would say to my fellow conservatives. That's not -- we've complained about that for a long, long time in this country, to have the courts step in and take away from the democratic process the right for people to make these kinds of very important judgments about what kind of country we're going to live in.

So I don't have a problem with him advocating for what he believes in, I do have a problem with the avenue that he's taking.

BURNETT: All right, well, Rick Santorum, thank you very much. We look forward to seeing you at CPAC.

SANTORUM: Thank you.

BURNETT: All right, still to come, Yahoo!'s CEO bans their employees from working from home. You've all heard about this by now. The controversy has the company on the defensive, but should it be.

Plus there's now a real mission to send humans to Mars. The man behind the plan is OUTFRONT.

And in the Jodi Arias trials, sex, lies, and a videotape from "48 Hours." We, tonight, talk to the only reporter who has ever interviewed Jodi Arias.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BURNETT: Our second story, OUTFRONT, Yahoo!'s mommy wars. CEO's Marissa Mayers' new policy banning employees from working at home has ignited a firestorm. Maureen Dowd of the "New York Times" writes, "Mayer's bold move looks retro and politically incorrect."

While Virgin CEO, Richard Branson, calls the policy backwards and says, "Yours truly has never worked out of an office and never will." Now I have to admit Richard Branson, you are a rather unique individual.

The Donald also weighed in, tweeting, "Marissa Mayer is right to expect Yahoo! employees to come to the workplace versus working at home. She is doing a great job."

All right, OUTFRONT tonight, two high profile working mothers who have no shortage of opinions on this, everyone in the country does. Bonnie Fuller is the editor of, and CNN contributor and Democratic strategist, Hilary Rosen.

All right, a lot of the backlash that started has centered around the fact that Marissa Mayer as the CEO, came in, six or seven months pregnant, something like that, right, and then when she had her child, McAllister, she built at her own expense, a nursery right next-door to her office.

So she had this amazing luxury of being able to have that. Now she tells her employees, right, who you've got to assume, that a lot are working women that they can't telecommute. So Hilary, bad employee relations or fair and square?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, super bad employee relations. First of all, we should note though, Erin, that the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that an equal number of men work at home as women who work at home. So I don't think this is not just a mommy issue, it's also a daddy issue.

But you know, Marissa Mayer's problem I think is that she came in. She built a nursery next to her office for her newborn, but yet she's telling everybody who works for her, you know, that kid at home and everything you've got to do, you've got to come to the office.

I don't think everybody at Yahoo! can bring a baby and have them hang out at their cubicle. It's an out of touch thing that a new leader really shouldn't do.

BURNETT: Interesting point. And you know, interesting that both men and women, can work from home and obviously, I don't know what all the reasons are, whether it's related, and whether it's more children related or not. That's a real key question.

Bonnie, when you were a new editor at "Cosmo," your youngest daughter was born, you brought her to work. That's a luxury, right, let's just admit it. Most people, you can't.

BONNIE FULLER, EDITOR, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: You know what? Yes, it was a luxury. I had fantastic bosses at first. I talked to them about it, but I was in, really, a similar situation to Marissa. I had started a new job, I had just taken over as editor in chief as "Cosmopolitan" magazine and I had a lot of work that had to be done and I was pregnant.

And I didn't feel that I actually had the luxury of taking maternity leave and I'm sure that that's exactly how she felt. She's got 14,000 plus employees depending on her being there, doing a fantastic job, raising revenue, raising the share price, all of which will benefit them. And so, she made the decision that instead of taking a lot of time off, she would come right back to work.

BURNETT: Two weeks of maternity leave, which is incredible.

FULLER: That's right. But most women don't want to do that. But she need to do that, in her position, clearly, at least she felt she did. And so, she did what was necessary for her, in order for her to fulfill her job.

BURNETT: Go ahead, Hilary.

ROSEN: Bonnie wrote a great piece on this today, and I'm a fan of Bonnie's, but I don't think the issue is the -- whether she was entitled to build a nursery next to her or whether, you know, it's not super human to have come back after two weeks from maternity leave. We're not talking about maternity policy.

I just find it ironic that, you know, at a tech company, this sort of forward-looking CEO, who everybody said is kind of this new generation leader, has gone back to kind of a 1950s sort of a work- policy mentality. It's -- if you can't get your employees to be motivated enough when they have stay-at-home work policies, this isn't -- these aren't parents who are taking maternity leave. These are people who are telecommuting, and your problem is leadership and motivation. Your problem isn't kind of outdated policies.

BURNETT: But, isn't it partly, though, as she said, it's the serendipitous stumble, to use my words. You run into something when you're at the coffee machine or you talk to someone at their desk. You're able to come up with more ideas, you get to know people more face-to-face. That's the one thing I've learned, with all the technology, the face-to-face meetings are still the ones that matter the most.

FULLER: I totally agree with you. And I don't think that this is a return to a 1950s policy at all. I think she is doing what she feels is necessary to build a great culture there. To foster innovation, creativity, teamwork. I mean, how can you be a team if you've got hundreds of employees that are all at a distance? And I have an organization, too, I run at Hollywood Life. And we get our best work done by all being together, putting ideas together, bouncing ideas off each other. It's exactly what you said.

BURNETT: All right.

ROSEN: You know, the one thing that is clear is that, we wouldn't be talking about this policy or this HR letter to employees if she wasn't, you know, a CEO in her 30s and a woman. Clearly, there is this double standard. We know there are tough policies that men institute all across the country. Having staid that, you know, she's put herself out there at some risk, at this point, I think.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks to both of you. I can't decide if a man put it out if he would have been utterly filleted and fired by now or if no one would have noticed. And which would be worse.

ROSEN: Wouldn't have been noticed.

BURNETT: And that's an interesting point. May not have been noticed. And that would say something.

Still to come, for the first time, there's serious discussions about sending a man and woman spaceship to Mars. The man behind the plan comes OUTFRONT next.

And Silvio Berlusconi, Tiger Woods or Danica Patrick. We asked you which you would rather be, and you know what? The results are surprising. They're coming up


BURNETT: I heard something today that got my juices going. It's why I decided to wear red. Because for the first time ever, people might go to Mars. And today, I actually got the chance to talk with Dennis Tito, the man who's making this happen. You may remember him. He's an American engineer, multimillionaire. He was the first space tourist. In 2001, he hitched a ride with the Russians. He spent almost eight days on the international space station, orbited the earth 128 times. Now, I asked him about his love of space and he said this.


DENNIS TITO, FIRST SPACE TOURIST: It just goes back to when I was 17 years old and Sputnik was launched and there was the beginning of the space race. And I enrolled in university for aeronautics and astronautics. So that's been my passion for life. And I made up my mind, you know, in my 20s, that I wanted to fly in space some day. And it took me 40 years and I did it.


BURNETT: Pretty amazing. And this time around, he wants to send a couple -- a couple, literally, man/woman, into space. According to Tito, on January 5th, 2018, the planets will be perfectly aligned in such a way that a man and woman mission to Mars is a real possibility. He told me it's like a boomerang, bing-bing! You just go there and back. Boom!

Now, he plans to launch a mission for America, a two-person crew on an historic journey to the red planet. I remember watching the movie "Contact" years ago, and some people have made a lot of fun of me for this. But I wanted to go and see another world. I fell in love with Matthew McConaughey and Jodi Foster. So when I heard about this Mars trip, I was excited, but I had some questions, like, how long is it going to take?


TITO: It's a total of 501 days.


BURNETT: 501 days. That's a big commitment. But this was a big dream of mine. I have been on long flights before, and this is the experience of is a millennium. You know, at least you actually get to walk on Mars.


TITO: Oh, no, no, no, no. That is very complicated and that's a long way off. You get to go within 200 miles.




TITO: You and your husband would represent the first humans to reach our next habitable planet. And you would represent humanity. And that's why we want a man and a woman.


BURNETT: My husband? I've only been married to him for about 60 days, and I cannot imagine being in a tiny capsule with him for 501 straight days. But then I thought, you know, love may not transcend a carnival triumph cruise-like experience for 501 days. But then I thought, you know love might not transcend a Carnival Triumph cruise- like experience for 501 days.

But you know what? Space is too exciting. I'm in! I'll get my husband in, if they'll have us. So what do you think? Are you willing to make contact? Would you volunteer for the mission to Mars? Please let us know at

And still to come, the president is just moments away from giving a speech about the forced spending cuts that are going to hit this country in a couple of days. But if they're really so brutal, why is the president finally called for a meeting just a few hours before the cuts hit?

And more strange and lurid testimony in the Jodi Arias trial. The only network correspondent to ever interview her comes OUTFRONT.


BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT. We start the second half with stories we care about, where we focus on our reporting from the front lines. And we begin with new developments tonight on where the White House stands on increasing aid to the opposition in Syria. Two administration officials tell us that Secretary of State John Kerry is going to offer the opposition a package in the tens of millions of dollars. They say it will include aid for the armed opposition. We know the administration has been considering nonlethal military equipment, like night vision goggles and body armor. The package would still need to be signed off for President Obama. Senator Marco Rubio today said he supported providing ammunition to the rebels.

Well, some last words of wisdom for one of the most powerful men in the world. Today, Pope Benedict XVI gave his last address to a general audience as pope. He recounted his eight years as being filled with joy and light, but also moments that were not easy. That was perhaps a reference to the sex abuse scandal that has plagued the Church, if you read between the lines. He said the church was passing through stormy seas, but added, "God will not let her sink." Despite the travails, best-selling author Raymond Arroyos says Benedict's statement was an elegant expression of his abiding faith and humble confidence in God's power.

And a note on the pope's last day. I'll be co-anchoring a two- hour special tomorrow that begins at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

On February 10th, the vacation cruise was suddenly dead in the water, but Carnival Triumph's passenger C.A. Patton (ph) didn't waste any time. She wrote and wrote and wrote. She kept a journal as the events on the ship unfolded. This is a lesson to always keep a journal, because six days after she got back on land, she is the self- published author of "Triumph Over Calamity." An Amazon spokeswoman tells us this is happening more and more. A Costa Concordia passenger wrote about the disaster a few weeks after that happened off the coast of Italy. And so far, "Triumph Over Calamity" is doing well, with good reviews, and holding rank around 6,000 out of more than a million books.

OK, on the show yesterday, you may remember, we talked about three people -- Tiger Woods, Danica Patrick, and Silvio Berlusconi, who are so famous and successful that even when they lose, they still get almost all the attention.

And at the end of the story, I asked you to go to our blog and take our poll. The question was, who would you rather be? Tiger, Danica, or Silvio?

We got a lot of responses and so far, running away with the competition is Danica Patrick, with 66 percent of the vote. Tiger is 28, Silvio with only six. But I was confused, because if you vote for Silvio, you get to buy the car and, you know, whatever else you want to buy.

And it also proves our point that even though Tiger and Silvio lost to Danica, we're still talking about them.

It has been 573 days since the U.S. lost its top credit rating and what are we doing to get it back? With those forced spending cuts two days away, a whole lot of people are in limbo. On Saturday, Indiana will temporarily halt federal unemployment benefits until it gets more guidance from Washington.

And that brings me to our third story OUTFRONT, cutting detainees loose. So, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency has released several hundred detainees ahead of the $85 billion in forced spending cuts. ICE says they're just moving the detainees to less costly forms of supervision. Republicans call the move outrageous and accuse the Obama administration of resorting to scare tactics.

Our Jim Acosta is OUTFRONT.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To prepare for those looming the forced budget cuts, federal immigration authorities say they've released what they're describing as several hundred detainees who are in the process of being removed from the country. One of those detainees, 19-year-old Mexican immigrant, Miguel Hernandez, told CNN, he was just sent on his way, without any directions, and without any monitoring.

REPORTER: So they let you free, and you still don't know what to do now?

MIGUEL HERNANDEZ, RELEASED IMMIGRATION DETAINEE: I don't know what to do. I'm just waiting -- just waiting for the mail, to see what it is.

ACOSTA: The release is just the latest sign of the unintended consequences to come from the forced spending cuts that start kicking in as late as 11:59 p.m. Eastern Time, Friday night. Lawmakers up on Capitol Hill feel blindsided.

REP. BOB GOODLATTE (R), VIRGINIA: If they're undesirable to have in the United States, they ought not to be released out on to our streets when they can perpetrate more crimes.

ACOSTA: When asked whether the administration was notified ahead of time about the release, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney began reading from a prepared statement.

(on camera): Are you confident that not one of these detainees is a threat to his or her community?

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was a decision made by career officials at ICE, without any input from the White House.

ACOSTA (voice-over): But Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano did drop a major hint of the release when she stopped by the White House on Monday.

JANET NAPOLITANO, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: But there's only so much I can do. You know, I'm supposed to have 34,000 detention beds for immigration. How do I pay for those?

ACOSTA: Immigration authorities stress the detainees are what they consider low-risk, and noncriminal. And that many, though not all of them, are being monitored.

(on camera): It's possible that some of them might not be brought back in.

CARNEY: Well, you know, I would refer you to ICE. I don't think this is a conversation that I can help you with.

ACOSTA (voice-over): An official with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE, who asked not to be name d, said some of the detainees will be on intensive supervision, such as ankle GPS monitors, while others will be on less intensive supervision, such as weekly check-ins at an ICE office.

As for Miguel Hernandez, he says he doesn't have any felonies on his record, and that he's been in the U.S. since he was 7, so he hopes to stay. For him, what Washington calls sequestration may be his salvation.

HERNANDEZ: I would like to, like, make a life here.

ACOSTA (on camera): A government official tells CNN, immigration authorities are aware that the timing of this release looks bad, but the release also runs counter to a conventional wisdom in Washington that's been building, that the effects of these cuts won't be felt right away.

But the fact of the matter is, no one really knows what the effect of the cuts will be. The only thing that seems certain is that the cuts are coming.

Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.


BURNETT: All right. Thanks to Jim Acosta.

Well, Stephen Moore joins me now. Stephen is a senior economics writer with "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page.

And Robert Reich, former U.S. labor secretary and author of "Beyond Outrage: What Has Gone Wrong with our Economy and Democracy and How to Fix It."

Robert, let me start with you. We're talking about scare tactics her.

Arne Duncan, the education secretary today, was forced to backtrack, because this weekend he said, look, teachers are going to get laid off because of the sequester on Friday. He was asked for an example. He talked about a school in West Virginia.

Jim Acosta, who you just heard reporting, called the school, and the school system said the layoffs had absolutely nothing to do with the sequester. It does sound like a lot of mongering.

ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Well, Erin, something is going to happen, and we already see unemployment insurance is being suspended in some states. We see that people are being released from custody. Airports are already making plans with regard to their inspectors, who are not going to be available. They're going to be on furlough.

I mean, nobody -- I don't think nobody in their right minds thinks you can take $85 billion out of the entire system, and that's what we are beginning to do, starting Friday, and not have an effect.

BURNETT: All right. I want to ask both of you about what's happening here, though, with the way the White House is handling this. Journalist Bob Woodward, as you both know, has come under fire, because he essentially blamed the White House for the automatic cuts and criticized the president's handling of negotiations with Republicans, saying he's moving the goalposts. And he talked to Wolf Blitzer about that.

I'm curious, Stephen Moore, whether you think -- does he really have a point, or is the White House does have a point also in saying, look, let's just go ahead and fix this now, no one wants these cuts, let's do a balanced approach?

STEPHEN MOORE, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, Bob Woodward is unquestionably correct that this was the president's idea, coming up with the sequester plan. He talks about it in his book. I've talked to Republican leaders who were in the meetings, Erin, who say, absolutely, the president who came up with this.

And the reason why the president came up with this is because he thought that Republicans wouldn't go along with these defense cuts, and therefore, they would agree to a tax increase. And that's backfired now.

But I think the big story here, where we're sitting right now, Erin, I think the president has really overplayed his hand. I think Americans really see what's happening, where he said, we had the term, we had an aircraft carrier around and it couldn't be deployed to the Middle East and now they're releasing criminals from the jail and that you're going to have to have a 90-minute wait at the airport if you're going to be flying in March.

A lot of Americans are asking, wait a minute, we know there's a lot of waste in this federal budget. Bob Reich knows that. He ran a federal agency. They can find a way to make these cuts, in my opinion, business as do it all the time, without disrupting the vital services that Americans depend on from our government.

BURNETT: Robert, let me ask you about what -- and play the exchange between Bob Woodward and Wolf Blitzer, because this is a pretty amazing thing that Bob Woodward says the White House did to him. Here it is.


BOB WOODWARD, WASHINGTON POST ASSOCIATE EDITOR: I mean -- WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You're used to this kind of stuff, but share with our viewers what's going on between you and the White House?

WOODWARD: Well, they're not happy at all and some people kind of, you know, said, look, we don't see eye to eye on this. They never really said, though, afterwards, they've said that this is factually wrong, and it was said to me, in an e-mail, by a top --

BLITZER: What was said? Yes.

WOODWARD: It was said very clearly, you will regret doing this. >

BLITZER: Who sent that e-mail to you?

WOODWARD: Well, I'm not going to say.


BURNETT: That's impressive. "You will regret doing this," from someone in the White House?

REICH: Well, I -- yes, I think that's pretty outrageous if that came from someone in the White House.

But, Erin, let's stop playing the blame game. I mean, Stephen Moore wants to blame the president and a lot of Democrats want to blame Republicans. And the fact of the matter is, this whole idea is this whole sequester came out of the summer, August --

MOORE: That's right.

REICH: -- you remember, 2011, when the Republicans were just about to demand that the -- in exchange for raising the debt limit, that the United States would not otherwise be able to pay its bills. The Republicans were threatening a default.

And the president said, look, instead of a default, that would be a disaster. Our rating is already under assault, our credit rating, let's have some terrible kind of fallback that nobody's going to want, to force us into a deal.

So, let's stop playing the blame game. The issue here it seems to me that we are right up against a terrible, terrible wall, and everybody, everybody agrees it's bad. Why don't you just refuse the sequester, have an agreement with regard to when the timetable is going to be, and wait until unemployment gets down to 6 percent before you pull the austerity plug.

BURNETT: All right. At the moment --

MOORE: Bob, that could be 10 years from now.

Here's the thing. I actually think, Erin, and maybe I'm in the minority opinion, that an across-the-board cut in government spending is not such a bad way to cut a government that is borrowing $1 trillion a year, where we all know that we can't keep doing this year after year.

So, to tell every agency, look, you have to save on your paper clips and maybe you have to take a little less travel and maybe if you go to fewer conferences and some people may have to be laid off. I mean, my goodness, Erin, that happened in the private sector, when businesses got more efficient. I'm not so sure this is a bad way to do it.

But, Bob, to your point about what happened in 2011 --


MOORE: -- the president refuses to cut any -- or reform any of those entitlement programs, which as you know, that's where the money is. And until you get a deal out of the president on entitlements --

BURNETT: All right.

MOORE: -- where else can you cut?

BURNETT: All right. I'm going to hit pause right there.

REICH: Steve, austerity economics doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's dangerous.

BURNETT: I'm going to hit pause right there.

MOORE: Neither raise taxes.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks to both of you. We appreciate it.

MOORE: Thank you, Erin.

BURNETT: It sort of reminds me of what a lawyer once said to me -- you can shake hands on something, but contracts are made to be broken. I hated it when he said it, and hate when people like that way now.

Still to come: Tom Colicchio of "Top Chef" fame tells us about his biggest challenge ever and new R-rated developments in the Jodi Arias trial. She admits lying to everyone, even the man she killed.


BURNETT: Our fifth story OUTFRONT: sex, lies, and accusations of murder.

For 12 days, Jodi Arias has been on the stand in a sensational murder trial. She's accused of killing her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, back in 2008. It's a beyond unusual case, and it's gotten so much discussion among our staff, that we wanted to cover it. Most murder defendants don't even take the stand, let alone sit for 12 days of questioning. And prosecutors aren't even done yet. Arias has changed her story several times, first claiming she wasn't even there, then making up a story about two intruders, and now she says it was self-defense. Prosecutors grilled Arias today about her sex life and her lies, and we want to warn you that the content in this can be graphic at times and inappropriate for younger viewers.


BURNETT (voice-over): For 12 days, accused murderer Jodi Arias has been on the stand, fighting to save her life.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: You keep mentioning truth. I'm not having a problem telling the truth.

PROSECUTOR: But you are having problems answering my questions, right?

ARIAS: I don't have a problem answering your question if I remember the answer.

BURNETT: Charged with first-degree murder, she could get the death penalty if found guilty of killing her ex-boyfriend, back in 2008. He was 30 years old. His name was Travis Alexander.

Arias claims Alexander was abusive and that she killed him in self-defense, but prosecutors say the evidence doesn't add up and continued to show the jury today that Arias was enthralled in a steamy, sexual relationship with her Mormon boyfriend.

PROSECUTOR: You said, oh, yes, I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you like a dirty, horny little schoolgirl, right?


PROSECUTOR: So the schoolgirl issue here in this conversation is being brought up by you, not by him, right?

ARIAS: That's right.

PROSECUTOR: It was a consensual, mutual relationship, sexually speaking, wasn't it?

ARIAS: Yes, always.

BURNETT: But the consensual relationship didn't last, and according to prosecutors, Arias shot and stabbed Alexander 27 times in a fit of jealous rage. During cross-examination, prosecutors introduced this "48 Hours" interview that was done with Arias a few months after the murder, where she contradicts her story of abuse.

ARIAS: He really was an amazing person to know. He was generous, one of the most generous people that I've ever encountered.

BURNETT: Prosecutors say before being charged with murder, arias had nothing but good things to say about Travis Alexander, especially when it came to sex, and demonstrated their point by playing this audiotape that Arias made.


ARIAS: You were amazing. You made -- seriously, you made me feel like a goddess. Like, I wasn't saying you were like worshiping me, but you were -- you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet.


BURNETT: Showing little emotion on the stand, Arias admits she enjoyed being with Travis Alexander and despite her inconsistencies, she insists she didn't commit first-degree murder.

PROSECUTOR: Did you lie to the detective, yes or no?


PROSECUTOR: And did you lie to him on two occasions?

ARIAS: More than two, yes.

PROSECUTOR: And did you also lie to "48 Hours"?


PROSECUTOR: Did you lie to people in Utah?


PROSECUTOR: Did you lie to Daniel Freeman?

ARIAS: Yes, everyone.

PROSECUTOR: So you lied to a lot of people, but you're saying that just because you're sitting here in this courtroom, there has been, for lack of a better term, a conversion and you're now telling the truth, right?

ARIAS: For a lack of a better term, yes.


BURNETT: Maureen Maher is with me now, the person for "48 Hours", who did that interview.

And, Maureen, you know, you heard, obviously, what happened today. I know you've been covering this story. The prosecution has used clips from your broadcast, at least four times, so far, to contradict Jodi Arias. How would you describe her?

MAUREEN MAHER, CORRESPONDENT, "48 HOURS": Jodi's an extremely articulate young woman. And not only did I conduct an interview with her, but one of our producers, Jonathan Leech (ph), also sat down with her a month before. So she's arrested in late spring, she sits down with her in August, I sit down with her in September. And even the difference, Erin, from August to September, the amount of detail that she ends up going into about her second story of what happened, the intruder story, it changes, even from the time when one of our producers spoke with her to when I spoke with her. So she does seem to have an evolving sense of the truth and what the story is of what happened that night.

BURNETT: And this -- as you said, she's told several different stories. I want to a play a clip that you did with her on "48 Hours," the second version of what happened. Here it is.


ARIAS: There is a lot of evidence that places me at Travis' house the day that he was -- or not just the day he was killed, but the day, you know, most of that week, and there is a reason for that, and that reason is that -- that I did see Travis the day that he passed away and, a lot of things happened that day. I almost lost my life as well, and I was told that I can't speak about it or tell anyone about it.


BURNETT: And, obviously, you got her to talk about it and to tell all these different versions of what happened. As you watch her on the stand now, and you remember looking into her eyes, were they empty? Was she just a pathological liar? What do -- what do you think?

MAHER: I don't think they were empty when we spoke with her. She was clearly sort of making up the story as she went along. You know, certainly, I can't read minds, Erin, but it was obvious to all of us who were in the room with her that she was not telling the truth. This was not a believable story.

And that's why we pursued it as we did, throughout the conversation, we then started going down the track of, was this an abusive relationship, because it seemed like the only logical step she would have left in the situation, there was no way she was going to get away with telling the intruder story. It just didn't make sense. It didn't add up in any way.

So as we continued the conversation, we went down the path of, was this an abusive relationship? Did you think he was abusive? And as you saw in the clip that you ran before I came on, there were times when she talks about Travis in a glowing way. She was deeply in love with him, and loved the time that she spent with him and then would step back and say yes, he was abusive, yes, it was an abusive relationship, I just never told anybody.

I think she is very skilled at story telling.


MAHER: She believes what she's telling at the moment. And she's very articulate. BURNETT: All right. Maureen, thank you very much.

And you can catch a lot more of Maureen's reporting on murder mystery this Saturday night on "48 Hours Mystery." It's at 10:00 Eastern

And I want to bring in criminal defense Anne Bremner now and former prosecutor and New England law professor Wendy Murphy.

I mean, this is just amazing. Anne, today, the prosecution really went after Jodi Arias. So, I'm still astounded, 12 days on the stand.


BURNETT: Yes. I mean, with all these different stories, does she have a chance here?

BREMNER: Well, the question is, did she stand up to cross- examination or is this her last stand? And the answer is, she stood up to cross-examination very well.


BREMNER: And when you look at cross-examination rules, you know, for the prosecutor, the ideas are: be brief, be brilliant, sit down. But he hasn't.

And so, day after day after day, she just keeps going. And so far, you know, she may well have a chance just by virtue of her demeanor and some level of charm with the jury.

I know Wendy is going to come all over on me on this, but I think she has done well, all things considered.

BURNETT: Wendy, has she shown a level of charm. I mean, we see the pictures of her and she is a femme fatale or -- you know, in some of them. And some of them, just a pretty, naive-looking girl. Obviously, from what we've heard her talking about, she was far from that.

But, now, she's on the stand looking completely different. I mean, is she sympathetic?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, she is cute and she gets away with the "I'm not the killer" type. I give her that much.

But, you know, I think Anne's right. On one hand, she is being so cool for so long that for a couple of days, it was like, wow, she's pretty cool. Now, it's like, she has no conscience. I mean, even the most honorable human being under this withering cross-examination might have twitched. She doesn't even twitch. That to me suggests that jury is starting to think that she is so cold, she's got no conscience, which is consistent to the type who kills.

I think what we are watching here is defense by dog and pony show, because there is no legitimate defense. It has been the Supreme Court of pornography, if you ask me, which is a very big distraction especially for the guys.

At the end of the day, she's going to be convicted , but some of the guys in the jury might say, I can't vote for death. She reminds me of my favorite porn star. That's I think the strategy we're watching.

BURNETT: Anne, so, will -- has the prosecutor made significant mistakes here? You're saying, I mean, you're saying she's got a chance, right? The prosecutors made big mistakes. What's the biggest one that could her to avoid the death penalty?

BREMNER: Being up there for four days and thinking about doing it tomorrow and maybe the next day too.

I mean, the rules on cross, earlier what I just mentioned, but also, don't let the witness explain. Don't argue with the witness. Don't badger the witness.

Don't -- you know, summarize testimony until your closing argument. Every single rule the "Ten Commandments" of cross examination, he's violated. I sat and listened to it again in my office today on my iPhone, like I do day after day after day, because I can't listen to this anymore, you know? He's got to stop --


MURPHY: You know what, Anne? You know what's so true, Anne, though? You are right. The quorum is weird. I wouldn't cross examine that way. That's not my style. But the quorum went out the room a long time ago in this case.

BREMNER: That's right. It's wacky.

MURPHY: The first time someone mentioned oral sex. It is the weirdest case ever. It makes me crazy. I think it's disrespectful that the defense has turned this into a circus by making it all about sex, which we know has nothing to do with why Travis is dead.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thanks very much to both of you. It is one of the most bizarre and disturbing and disgusting cases.

Still to come, "Top Chef's" Tom Colicchio OUTFRONT.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a second or two away from absolute emotional breakdown.

BURNETT (voice-over): You know Tom Colicchio as the tough judge on Bravo's "Top Chef." He can be quick to slam on aspiring chef's dreams in the kitchen.

But what you don't see on camera is this man, whose passion from food has taken him in an entirely different direction.

TOM COLICCHIO, TOP CHEF: People are struggling to put food on the table night after night. You know, there's -- people are hungry, people are struggling, people don't know where the next meal is coming up. That's insecurity.

BURNETT: Food insecurity is a condition affecting roughly 50 million Americans, including nearly 17 million children. People are living on less than $5 a day. That's not much more than the cost of one single oyster at one of Colicchio's New York City restaurant. That $5 a day is stretched to buy the most affordable foot, often processed food that's high in sodium. It leads to health problems, from diabetes to heart disease.

The biggest issue, says Colicchio, is that it's hidden in plain sight.

COLICCHIO: It doesn't look like our typical idea of what hunger looks like, you know, famine victim. And so, it's hidden in plain sight. And I think that was definitely part of the reason why this film needed to be made.

LORI SILVERBUSH: I think the terms are confusing sometimes because we think of hunger as that, you know, swollen belly of a child in a famine, or people who have, you know, yawning feelings of hunger in the pit of their stomach. Hunger in this country is more a condition of great anxiety and fear because on any given day, you don't know how you're going to feed your kids.

BURNETT: The 50-year-old celebrity chef and his wife Lori Silverbush are sounding the alarm with their new documentary, "A Place at the Table".

SILVERBUSH: Seventy million kids in this country are not necessarily sure if they're going to eat on any given day. And I think that has devastating psychological and emotional consequences.

BURNETT: The target audience for the film -- lawmakers, to the husband-wife team, they are failing America.

SILVERBUSH: Tell your Congress people fix this. Fix this.

BURNETT (on camera): And do you think they can? I mean, because your optimism is amazing. But, you know, we look at Washington, they can't deal with the sequester, by the way, food is a part of the sequester. They can't deal with gun control. They can't deal with immigration. They can't deal with health care.


BURNETT: They can't deal with taxes.

COLICCHIO: Well, I'm hoping that someone doesn't want to sort of be labeled pro-hunger. I don't think everybody's pro-hunger. Yet, if we're not going to fix this problem, at some point, that may happen.


BURNETT: "A Place at the Table" opens on Friday.

And "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now.