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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Jodi Arias Breaks on the Stand

Aired March 1, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, have Jodi`s lies finally caught up with her? The accused murderess breaks down on the stand, sobbing convulsively when confronted with gruesome, bloody, violent crime-scene photos, the very way she killed her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander. Will her tears keep her from getting a lethal injection? And what is next in this extraordinary trial? We`ll tell you next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, did Jodi Arias lie her way onto Death Row? Jodi cracks under a river of tears after fiery prosecutor Juan Martinez shows no mercy, skewering her on the stand, demanding to know whether she was crying when she stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, shot him in the face and slit his throat ear to ear. Did the prosecutor do enough to convince jurors Jodi should die?

Our expert panel will debate it out, and we`ll explain the different verdict possibilities and what each outcome would mean for Jodi.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from here to ear?

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Yes.

He went like that, and he turned his head, and he grabbed my waist.

MARTINEZ: Just like that? Correct?

ARIAS: Pretty much.

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?

ARIAS: Yes. Part of it.

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?

ARIAS: Yes, part of it.

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?

ARIAS: Yes, part of it.

Because you`re not finishing the sentence.

I might have deleted them.

MARTINEZ: I`m not asking you if it`s the truth.

ARIAS: I don`t know. You go all over the place.

MARTINEZ: That`s a lie, isn`t it, ma`am?

ARIAS: I wish it was a lie.

MARTINEZ: Do you remember that we`re talking about Travis Alexander? That`s why we`re here, because you killed him, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

Travis snapped. He`s said, "(EXPLETIVE DELETED)."

MARTINEZ: He said "(EXPLETIVE DELETED)" what?

ARIAS: That I`m a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) idiot.

And I remember him just coming at me and coming at me and coming at me.

I rolled and ran down the hallway.

MARTINEZ: You`re telling us he didn`t catch you here, right?

ARIAS: No.

MARTINEZ: He didn`t catch you here, right?

ARIAS: No.

MARTINEZ: He didn`t catch you here, right?

ARIAS: No.

I closed my eyes as the gun began to go off.

MARTINEZ: You`re the one that did this, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And you`re the same individual that lied about all of this, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: So then take a look at it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right now as we speak, Jodi Arias is getting ready for rehab. That`s right. The rehabilitation of Jodi Arias will begin on redirect Monday. Will the fireworks get even more intense?

Jodi did crack under fierce cross-examination, but will those tears save her from getting the needle? And is she cozying up to the mostly male jurors as she heads toward her 14th day on the witness stand? So many questions.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.

The beautiful 32-year-old photographer is on trial for stabbing her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slicing Travis Alexander`s throat all the way down to the spine, shooting him in the head. Jodi admits she did all of that, but she says she did it in self-defense.

When the prosecutor asked Jodi if she was the one who slit Travis` throat right down to the spine, she sobbed uncontrollably, convulsing, hiding her face from the courtroom. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: And you would acknowledge that a lot of the stab wounds -- and if you want we can count them together, including the ones to the head -- were to the back of the head, to the back of the torso, correct?

ARIAS: OK. I didn`t count them. I don`t know. I`ll take your word for it.

MARTINEZ: Would you like to take a look at the photograph?

ARIAS: No.

MARTINEZ: So if he is being stabbed in the back, would you acknowledge at that point that he`s no threat to you?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear to ear?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: Would you also agree that you`re the individual that stabbed him in the upper torso?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense wants you to believe Jodi was a sexually abused and battered woman. The prosecutor calls her a kinky seductress.

Here, Jodi demonstrates how she claims Travis attacked her, and she`s going to go through the motions there. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yada, yada, yada.

But what about all the raunchy, extremely sexual text messages Jodi sent Travis just months before he died? The prosecutor says those texts show Jodi was the sexual aggressor in this relationship. This language is graphic, but it was said in open court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: This is what the text message reads: "Will do. The reason I was asking about later tonight is because I want to give you a nice (EXPLETIVE DELETED)." (EXPLETIVE DELETED) stands for what?

ARIAS: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

MARTINEZ: And (EXPLETIVE DELETED) means that you -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it means that you put your mouth on his penis, right?

ARIAS: Yes. Oral sex.

MARTINEZ: Right. And in addition to it, you say, "And I`d like a nice generous facial in return," right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: That means that you want him to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on your face, right?

ARIAS: That`s correct.

MARTINEZ: And one of them you describe as leaving you feeling like a prostitute; yet this one, which is the same thing, you`re requesting it, right?

ARIAS: Yes -- well, no. Not -- I don`t know by same thing. If you`re talking about (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on your face, it`s the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So will the jury see Jodi as a murdering temptress or as a crying battered woman who only killed in self-defense?

Straight out to "In Session`s" Jean Casarez. She is there in Phoenix, Arizona, right outside court. The prosecutor has just finished his dramatic cross-examination. I talked about the rehab of Jodi Arias. Tell us what we can expect next.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, I think just as you`re saying, they`ve got to put back front and center that she`s a victim, that she was under the control, the power and the dominance of Travis Alexander, that it all started with the sex, but then once she saw him pleasuring himself to little boys, that`s right. They`ve got to re- emphasize that.

And she`s got to re-testify that she would never write anything about that. She never told a soul about that, because she cared about him too much. But that then escalated the cycle of violence, because she now knew his secret.

And you know, Jane? Something else, this fog that she said that came over her, that`s extremely important because she admitted many things. She admitted so many more things than she needed to, based on a justified killing. She admitted cleaning up the scene. She admitted that.

So the defense is going to have to say, "But you don`t remember, really, anything because of that fog."

And I think the most incriminating question that she answered on cross-examination was "Wouldn`t you agree, ma`am, that you did something very wrong to Travis Alexander?" And the answer was yes. They`ve got to turn that around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they have so much to turn around, meaning the defense when they do their redirect examination of Jodi Arias on Monday, in other words, trying to clean up the mess that the prosecutor created when he basically ripped her story to shreds.

Now what are they going to do with the sexual aspect of all this? The defense. How are they going to clean up that mess? The jury saw several texts that the prosecutor presented from Jodi to Travis. These were X- rated. They show Jodi not being the victim who had to defend herself, but rather the sexual aggressor. She`s a far cry from meek and submissive and soft-spoken, far cry from an abuse victim. Check some of these out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: "If you`re a lucky boy and you promise to give me a good, well-deserved spanking." And then there`s a period there, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And then you also say maybe you could give my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a too-much-needed pounding, too... kidding." Correct?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: You were kidding about the second portion, but not the first portion, correct?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So Jodi actually makes a raunchy joke about wanting anal sex, but let`s bring in our panel to debate it. On direct, she testified about feeling so degraded when Travis after baptizing her -- and you see these pictures here -- then she claims pressured her to do anal sex hours after the baptism ceremony.

So which is it? Is she traumatized by anal sex, or is she sending texts -- yes, she is sending texts -- making jokes about it with Travis?

Let`s debate it with our panel, because I thought this was one of the strongest points that the prosecutor made. And we begin with Joey Jackson for the prosecution.

JOEY JACKSON, PROSECUTOR: Would the real Jodi Arias please stand up? She was shredded. These text messages not only speak to her credibility -- sorry, lack of it -- but they also speak to the fact that she`s the initiator. This is not about abuse, manipulation and control. This is about her not only consenting, but wanting and wanting more.

What they also do, Jane, is they rehabilitate Travis Alexander. All along, he`s the deviant. He`s the one. It`s his fault; it`s his problem. No, it`s yours. It establishes guilt very powerfully, very compellingly, and it speaks to first-degree murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I see Janet Johnson shaking your head for the defense.

JANET JOHNSON, ATTORNEY: Spoken like a man, Joey. No, she`s both. She`s playing the role that she thinks he wants her to fulfill. She has low self-esteem. She`s doing everything that it takes to get him to want her to be the girlfriend that she thinks he wants. And he doesn`t even want to take her to Cancun when the trip comes up.

I think, as a woman, if I`m on that jury, I know who that girl is, and she`s trying to say something that she thinks he wants to hear.

JACKSON: All Travis` fault.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evan Bolick for the prosecution.

EVAN BOLICK, ATTORNEY: You know, to paraphrase "Forrest Gump," Jodi`s like a box of chocolates. You never know what you`re going to get with her. And it`s absolutely come out into this trial here today and over the course of the week.

When she`s been mad, we`ve seen emails of her getting mad at Travis. She said she`s capable of breaking up with Travis and multiple boyfriends. So are we really to believe that, if this sex was so terrible and so degrading, that she would have stuck around and kept going back for more? No way. Not at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez, for the defense.

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, ATTORNEY: Jane -- Jane, I think the prosecution is mischaracterizing all the testimony that`s been given thus far. She`s a woman. It`s her choice when she wants to have sex.

Obviously, she did enjoy having sex with Travis Alexander. That`s not the issue. The issue was after the baptism she did not want to engage in anal sex, OK?

In this situation she`s sending him text messages saying that anal sex is OK. That`s exactly what it`s evidence of. In that situation, in a different climate in a different atmosphere, which is normal in any relationship. There`s nothing deviant about that.

JACKSON: The defense talking about mischaracterization? Wow!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to wonder...

GOMEZ: It`s not, Mr. Jackson.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... with re-direct coming up Monday, if the defense is watching the show, as we know they have, and they`re taking notes.

We`re just getting started. On the other side, a former Hollywood madam weighs in on all this kinky sex. What does it mean? What does it say about Jodi and Travis?

And can the defense rehabilitate Jodi`s image with jurors, starting Monday? We`re all over it. We`re debating it next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear to ear?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: You said, "Oh, yes, I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you like a dirty, horny little school girl," right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: So the school girl issue here in this conversation is being brought up by you, not by him, right?

ARIAS: That`s right.

MARTINEZ: You did enjoy dressing up for him, right?

ARIAS: Um, yes.

MARTINEZ: Let`s read it. You: "I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you like a dirty, horny little school girl." So that implies that you are dressed up in a certain fashion, right?

ARIAS: Um, yes.

MARTINEZ: And it also implies that or indicates that it`s you that`s the person that likes this sort of activity and looking like a horny little school girl, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Remember the triple-X-rated photos like this one, where she`s wearing pig tails? You may not be able to see it there, but trust me, she`s wearing pig tails. And she made that out to be that she was degraded and forced to dress up like a school girl like a perv, by a perv.

I want to go to Jody "Babydol" Gibson, former Hollywood madam, who knows a whole lot about sex and has just written the aptly-entitled book "Convicted."

So can she have it both ways? Can she say, "Oh, I was abused by Travis Alexander when he made me do all these degrading things," but at the same time, she`s sending emails saying, "I want to bleep you like a dirty, horny little school girl. I want a spanking. I want you to" -- you know. You know what I`m talking about.

JODY "BABYDOL" GIBSON, FORMER HOLLYWOOD MADAM: Exactly. Not in this case, Jane. In fact, it seems more like he was -- it was a sex affair to him. It was a love affair to her.

However, I think she used it as a power play to make herself invaluable to him, because very few women resonate with this anal sex. One out of every 50. So the fact that she could and even act like she enjoyed it gave her a power over him that most women didn`t have.

And I want to make another point, Jane. I think -- I wonder if the sex had been vaginal rather than anal, if she would have been as severe in the attack.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, in other words, you`re seeing this as a revenge for what she allowed him to do to her, as she was trying to use sex as a weapon to get him.

GIBSON: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it just didn`t work...

GIBSON: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and then she becomes enraged in retrospect...

GIBSON: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... over what she put herself through in her efforts to unsuccessfully get him.

Let`s bring in a psychotherapist. Dr. Jenn Berman, boy, do we need you. Do women use sex as a -- as almost like a commodity to get a guy? And then if it doesn`t work and they have submitted themselves to all sorts of degrading things in the hopes to get him, could that inspire rage?

DR. JENN BERMAN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Absolutely it could. But the problem with this case is that we see her participating in this and talking about this like she likes it. Even when she`s on the stand and she`s being told by the lawyers what she said, she almost has a smirk on her face.

But there`s nothing in the e-mails, in the texts, in her personal, private journal that indicates that this was an abuse situation. If anything, everything she`s written seemed like this was very consensual and that she was enjoying -- and yes, enjoying the power of it, but also enjoying the experience.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I wonder if she enjoyed the experience as she was having it, but then had a delayed reaction to that whole experience and felt degraded in retrospect when she found out that Travis Alexander was taking another woman, who wasn`t doing all of that stuff, to Cancun instead of her.

All right, now Jodi "Babydol" Gibson, who knows -- you are a former Hollywood madam. You know a lot about sex. Is it possible -- you say sometimes very powerful men like to be dominated and degraded, because they`re guilty about the millions or billions they`ve made. I`ll take your word for that.

But in general, can somebody enjoy a sex act that might be degrading that causes them pleasure at the moment, but then afterwards, upon reflection go, "Boy, I`m angry that that person did that to me"?

GIBSON: Absolutely. I think in this case, when he chose another and wasn`t interested in the same kind of sex, she realized she lost her trump card. What could she use now? There`s no love here. That`s all she had, and if he doesn`t want that from her, what will he want from her? Nothing else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She played her hand, and she didn`t win. And now she`s left without any cards. Could that be the recipe for murder?

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: That`s what it says, yes or no?

ARIAS: Yes, part of it.

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?

ARIAS: Yes, part of it.

MARTINEZ: Yes or no.

ARIAS: Yes, part of it.

MARTINEZ: You keep saying part of it.

ARIAS: Because you`re not finishing the sentence.

MARTINEZ: You took other photographs that day?

ARIAS: Yes. In the shower.

MARTINEZ: Well, we`re not there, are we?

ARIAS: I don`t know. You go all over the place.

MARTINEZ: Well, you keep trying to be critical, but not answering the questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN CARR, FRIEND OF JODI (via phone): She definitely doesn`t think she`ll be acquitted. The death penalty, me and her both agree, no, there`s no way she`s going to get the death penalty. There`s no evidence.

She believes that it`s going to be a mistrial. All of the jurors ain`t going to agree. It`s going to look bad on the prosecution, where they`re going to have another trial. State of Arizona in six years, and she thinks that she`ll get manslaughter, five years parole.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow! Oh, well, she said that to you?

CARR: Yes. Right out of -- right out of Jodi`s mouth. That`s what we`re hoping for, anyway, but yes, Jodi feels kind of confident on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi`s friend told me that Jodi -- you just heard it -- she doesn`t think she`s going to get the death penalty.

Now, if she`s convicted of first-degree murder, she`s facing their -- the death penalty or 25 years to life. You saw second-degree murder carries between 10 to 20, and then there`s the possibility of a lesser charge of manslaughter.

So let`s go out to Jean Casarez. You`ve been following all of this. First of all, once the redirect is done, right? The defense gets to redirect questions at Jodi Arias to try to rehabilitate her. Then, in Arizona, the jurors are allowed to ask questions. And I`ve heard reports there`s already a basketful of questions from the jurors.

CASAREZ: Wow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What will that tell us about the issue of guilt or innocence?

CASAREZ: You know, those are the questions -- you never know what the questions are going to be. And those are the questions we all probably want to know, the unanswered questions. And there are a lot of them.

But here`s what happens. The judge and the attorneys go through all the questions. They determine what is relevant, what may not be relevant. And so maybe not all of them will be asked.

But I`m glad to know that they`re thinking about the questions now, because you don`t want to wait until the end to formulate your questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I think that`s going to give us an idea. Jodi Arias is telling a friend reportedly, "I don`t think I`m going to be convicted of first-degree murder. I`m not going to get the death penalty. This is going to be a hung jury. And then on the second time around I`m going to get manslaughter."

But when I hear those questions -- and let me bring in my legal panel. Joey Jackson, when we hear those questions after the redirect -- and that`s later this week, we`ll hear those questions -- what will we get a sense of?

JACKSON: You know what, Jane? It`s huge, because always as attorneys, we`re wondering when they do read-back, which is the juries` wanting to find out what`s going on, were wondering, were thinking. But the juror questions give us an inside look of what they`re viewing, what`s significant to them, what they believe, what they want to hear, what their focus is. So I think it will give us a great indication of what`s troubling them, what`s bothering them, and what they need clarification about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Johnson, do you think that Jodi Arias is crazy for thinking she`s going to get a hung jury and then manslaughter on the next time around?

JOHNSON: That might be crazy, but I don`t think she`s going to get death. I`ll predict that right now, because I don`t think the jury is going to get invested enough in Travis. I think they`ve done a good enough job to make him look hypocritical, to look, if not abusive then at least as if he`s treating her badly. And I think there will be some sympathy. There`s a reason why there are women on Death Row in Arizona. People don`t like to execute women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about how the gender makeup of this jury pool could affect the outcome. Now they haven`t taken away the alternates yet. So right now we have 11 men and seven women. What`s the procedure for taking away the alternates? Could we end up with seven women, in other words, mostly women? Or could we end up with mostly men? I don`t know. We`ll find out on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: You were familiar with his house, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: You were familiar with the fact that you could have gone down the hallway, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: And you could have taken a quick left and you would have gone down the stairs right?

ARIAS: No, I probably would have been dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Travis snapped. He stood up, stepped out of the shower, all the while calling me and...

MARTINEZ: Screaming at you, bad stuff, right? Cursing at you, right?

I`m asking who was directing him in these poses? It was you, wasn`t it?

Were you crying when you were shooting him?

ARIAS: I don`t know. You go all over the place.

MARTINEZ: Well, you can keep trying to be critical, but not answering the questions.

You`re remembering all this, even though he slammed you down really, really hard.

Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you at Travis` house on Wednesday?

ARIAS: Absolutely not, I was nowhere near Mesa.

I think the wind was knocked out of me partially.

MARTINEZ: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?

ARIAS: I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: He didn`t touch you here, right?

ARIAS: No.

FLORES: Your pictures on that date with him, your blood is in the house.

MARTINEZ: You`re the one that did this, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Right now in a jail cell in Arizona, Jodi Arias getting ready to go to rehab in a matter of speaking because Monday her defense attorney is going to try to rehabilitate her on the witness stand after prosecutor Juan Martinez tore her story to shreds.

Watching all this -- the jurors; they`re the ones who ultimately make the decision. Now there are 12 jurors and there are six alternates. That means that they haven`t taken out the alternates yet, so what we`ve got as far as people who are deciding her fate right now, there are seven women and there are 11 men. All right? Seven women and 11 men. They`re going to take the six out and they`re going to make them alternates.

So here`s the thing. There`s a guy in his 20s; several of the jurors are retired in age. Let me go out to Jean Casarez, correspondent "In Session"; you`re there outside the courthouse in Phoenix, Arizona. Talk to me about when we know who the actual jurors are because right now it seems, Jean, that we have 11 guys, right, seven women -- we don`t know who the six alternates are going to be. And we don`t even know if they`re going to be mostly female or mostly male.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT "IN SESSION": That`s right. You know what, Jane; it`s going to be an important moment. Now, alternates are routinely selected right before the deliberations start. So they all listen to closing arguments and right before they go in the alternates are selected.

These alternates will be able to go home, we understand, but they will still be available if something would happen to a deliberating jury, but I think it`s going to be huge because what I see in that courtroom, I see the men interested, but they`re sort of laid-back. I see some women literally on the edge of their seats writing copious notes and studying those notes so the women that will be on the jury deliberating, they`re going to be leaders.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So we won`t know that for a while. Listen, Jody "Babydol" Gibson. So much of this trial is about sex. I want to ask you a question because it`s kinky sex and at the end of the day this all boils down to did this woman enjoy the kinky sex and initiate it or was she the victim of it and therefore she was degraded and abused and battered and she had to defend herself. Do women enjoy the sex?

I know when you had customers, a vast majority of your customers were men, but I think you could still get a sense whether this is something guys like to do a lot and whether women enjoy it and so why do women enjoy it?

JODY "BABYDOL" GIBSON, AUTHOR: Well, it`s definitely something guys enjoy much more than women enjoy. There`s a small population of women that really resonate with this, very few. So like I said before I think that she may have talked herself into believing she was enjoying it, but ultimately she used it to make herself invaluable to him and that`s the power she had over him.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But listen, let me ask you this, Jody. Let me ask you this, Jody. You say women don`t enjoy it and yet "Fifty Shades of Grey" in all its iterations are just taking the book world and I mean every woman is reading these books and this is all S&M sex; it`s all about a guy dominating her.

GIBSON: Well, I didn`t say women didn`t like to be dominated. I think that`s a fantasy most women have, I just think that there`s a small percentage of women that really enjoy anal sex. I didn`t say none of them. I just think it`s a small percentage.

But there`s a difference between wanting to be dominated and participating in oral sex -- there`s a huge difference. You could be dominated and never participate actually in any sex. You could actually --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Finish your sentence, it`s important.

GIBSON: I was just going to reiterate that you can actually -- the act of being dominated does not necessarily and oftentimes the women that are professional that do it never have sex.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Those are the dominatrixes?

GIBSON: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They have whips or whatever and they dominate the guys. It`s an equal-opportunity sex play. It`s not always men dominating women. A lot of guys like you said, like to be dominated by strong women or dominatrixes. So it`s not just a gender issue, but you make an important point that some of the specific acts that she described women generally don`t clamor for, let`s put it that way.

Thank you, Jody "Babydol" Gibson -- very informative.

Now the prosecutor forced Jodi to demonstrate exactly how Travis supposedly lunged at her like a linebacker causing her, she claims, to fire a gun at him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: Show me the linebacker pose.

ARIAS: He got down.

MARTINEZ: Well, show me -- show me the linebacker pose. That`s what I`m asking for you to do.

ARIAS: He went like that and he turned his head and grabbed my leg.

MARTINEZ: Just like that, correct?

ARIAS: Pretty much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. No, that`s when Jodi says she had to shoot Travis because he was coming in at her. It`s kind of like an eagle it looks like there.

Let`s debate this with our panel. Some people thought this ludicrous and even silly and others said, well, you know, the prosecutor might be actually making a huge blunder and allowing her to imprint her version of events in the juror`s minds by acting it out.

Let`s go to Evangeline Gomez. Was this a brilliant move by the prosecutor or big blunder?

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, ATTORNEY: Jane, I think this is a big blunder. You have two cardinal rules as a trial attorney. One, always ask the question that you know the answers to and two, if on cross, do not have the witness do a demonstrative which is exactly what Jodi did in this situation. It`s a big no-no.

I don`t think it`s going to go well with the jury. In addition to her crying on the stand --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me get -- let me get Evan Bolick for the prosecution.

EVAN BOLICK, ATTORNEY: Yes, Jane, I don`t think that it was a huge misstep or in fact I actually think it played a bit into the prosecutor`s hands and the fact that she looks completely non-threatening and this is now the image the jurors will have in their heads of what occurred when he ran at her.

Her arms were out away from her and that`s not scary enough to warrant getting shot in the head.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ten seconds. Good idea or bad, Janet?

JANET: Non-threatening. Yes, she doesn`t look like a murder. Bad idea and it humanizes her and the jury`s going to look at her and say that lady doesn`t look like she`d kill anyone. She looks perfectly safe.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Joey, last five seconds.

BOLICK: But she`s admitted to killing him.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok.

JOEY JACKSON, ATTORNEY: Listen, it was risky, but he pulled it off because forensics don`t lie, he does. Where was the bullet found? Where was the casing? On top of the blood. What does that suggest? She murdered him, sliced him up first and shot him second. It`s a big lie that was exposed -- guilty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Fantastic panel. We`re going to bring you back real soon. You know how to debate.

Remember, Jodi back on the stand starting on Monday and we are all over this trial.

At the top of the hour, "NANCY GRACE MYSTERIES" looks back on the biggest moments of the week in court, 8:00 Eastern right here on HLN. Stay right there.

On the other side, a husband invites another woman into the bedroom and his wife is first not so happy and then thrilled. You won`t believe what happens next. It`s "Scorned". We`ll take you there next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonch brought this idea to Mandy to bring an additional partner into their life.

TRISH MEHAFFEY, JOURNALIST: He was interested in kind of exploring the open marriage and the threesome idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonch`s desire to bring in a new partner poses a major challenge to Mandy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We had our first glimpse of Lindsay Lohan`s new attorney in action today in a pre-trial hearing. If you think Lindsay`s a mess, you should have seen these proceedings. The judge said Lindsay needs to find a lawyer to represent her who is actually competent to practice law in California, or she has to sign a waiver saying she is willing to stick with this new guy.

Oh, Lindsay, every time I think you can`t mess up something more, you surprise me. Complete coverage of Lilo`s beginning in March.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Husband and wife Tonch and Mandy and their two young children embodied the spirit and values of rural America. Tonch and Mandy have pulled off the rare feat of being married to their best friend.

Behind closed doors their relationship is at a crossroads. Tonch takes a leap of faith and shares a sexual fantasy with Mandy but instead of rejecting the idea, Mandy says she wants to hear more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A couple`s intent to spice up their sex life ends in horror. Tonch and Mandy Weldon, an average American couple in their mid- 30s raising two young kids in rural Iowa. After years of marriage, Tonch grows restless in the bedroom. He never imagines that acting out his sexual fantasies would have deadly consequences. This incredible story will be profiled on Investigation Discovery Saturday night, but we`re getting a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonch brought this idea to Mandy, to bring in an additional partner into their life.

MEHAFFEY: He was interested in kind of exploring the open marriage and the threesome idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonch`s desire to bring in a new partner poses a major challenge to Mandy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Though Mandy wasn`t thrilled about inviting another woman into their marital bed at first, she grew to enjoy these menage a trois situations. But when the couple propositions Amy Gethardt (ph), everything changed. You can see the full episode "Scorned: Deadly Threesome" on Investigation Discovery Saturday night, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

But now we have Dr. Robi Ludwig, a contributor on Investigation Discovery to give us a preview. Robi, tell us how this three-way ended in murder.

DR. ROBI LUDWIG, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Amy was not the first lover that Tonch wanted to bring into the marriage. After about three years of being married to the love of his life he got his wife to agree to an open marriage. And Mandy said, you know what; I don`t love the idea but I`ll go along with it as long as everything is open, you tell me everything and it`s an honest, open relationship.

Tonch agreed to it but he cheated on her nonstop. So Mandy`s like, you know what, I want to go back to our monogamous ways. I love you. I love our relationship. We don`t need a third person. And Tonch did not want to give up this open relationship.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One other thing about these three-ways, all these three-way relationships, the couple had involved another woman, so two women and a guy. At first that made Mandy a little queasy and uneasy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUDWIG: For the men that are interested in proposing a threesome, women may go along with it but in general it can feel like getting sucker punched and the initial feeling is why am I not enough? Why are you bored with me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But eventually the wife says, "I like this a lot." Right? I kissed a girl and I liked it.

LUDWIG: Well, what happened was yes, Tonch said, "My gosh, I don`t want to give up this three-way relationship. I want to make it up to my wife. I know she`s mad at me." He approached Amy, who was an open lesbian, and arranged for Amy and his wife Mandy to have a special evening alone at a hotel for her birthday.

Things went so well that Tonch invited Amy into their home, they slept in the same bed. They really became a communal family where Amy helped out with the kids, helped out with cooking. It went really, really well. Tonch was so happy --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Until --

LUDWIG: -- he wanted to marry three of them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but eventually Tonch`s jealousy of Mandy and Amy`s relationship came to a head. Mandy told her husband that she and Amy were going to leave him and become a lesbian couple. A week later Mandy and Tonch got into a huge argument. He shot Amy. That`s the other woman, the open lesbian, once in the chest before turning the gun on himself and blowing off his own jaw.

Now he survived and was later convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison.

Robi, briefly, what happened to the wife? What a horror.

LUDWIG: The wife fell in love with Amy and so what Tonch didn`t realize was that when he was creating this open marriage that he was really getting involved with a love triangle. So Amy and Mandy really decided they didn`t need Tonch at all. They really loved their relationship together.

Tonch couldn`t handle this reality. When he found out he became murderous and the rest you were telling the audience that he took a gun and got violent.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it and then some.

LUDWIG: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Dr. Robi. And check out "Scorned", Investigation Discovery. That`s tomorrow night, Saturday night, at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. It is a stunning story and it`s all true.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet o` the Day. Send your pet pics to us at hlntv.com/jane. Toonah, you send us to the moonah. You are so beautiful with those green eyes. And who we got here? Mickey and river -- big and little like Abbott and Costello. Jackson, tres, tres magnifique. And Betty -- we just love you. That`s all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rico, tonight our "Animal Investigations Unit" is looking at horrifying abuse at a North Carolina turkey farm. But this time the perpetrators didn`t get away with it.

I`ve got to warn you this video is graphic but it`s important for you to bear witness for a moment because these animals, just like Rico, cannot speak for themselves. After animal rights group Mercy for Animals released this undercover video of shocking abuse at a Butterball Turkey Farm, authorities took action. Four employees were convicted of cruelty to animals. Three were misdemeanor convictions but one man, Brian Douglas, was convicted of felonious cruelty to animals.

This is a landmark case because it`s the first ever felony conviction in U.S. history for cruelty to factory farm poultry.

Joining me Nathan Runkle, executive director of Mercy for Animals, the group that did this undercover investigation. thanks for joining us tonight, Nathan. Why is this historic for factory farm animals?

NATHAN RUNKLE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MERCY FOR ANIMALS: Well, this is the first time that a worker on a factory farm has been found guilty of criminal cruelty to animals on a felony level. This is for birds used in meat production. Over 9 billion of these birds are used every year and many of them live lives filled with misery, deprivation and abuse.

We`ve done multiple investigations at Butterball that have found workers dragging, kicking, and throwing these birds and many of them are left to suffer without veterinary care and they have open wounds and broken bones. This is abuse that should not be tolerated and you know that the hidden cost of Butterball`s cheap turkey is egregious animal abuse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We reached out to Butterball for comment and they issued the following statement. "Since Butterball first learned of the 2011 incident at this Hoke County facility we have condemned the actions of the former associates involved. Animal care and well-being remains central to the operations of our company and we are committed to the ethical and responsible care of our turkey flocks. Nathan, what is your response to Butterball saying they`re committed to making it better?

RUNKLE: It`s too little too late. There`s a culture of cruelty at this facility. Management knew about this abuse. We did an investigation one year later that uncovered identical abuses.

This is a top-down policy level abuse that consumers shouldn`t be supporting. We should be boycotting Butterball and eating alternatives to turkey and chicken products, humane vegetarian alternatives.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now four men were convicted of criminal cruelty to animals stemming from this investigation. Ruben Mendoza and Terry Johnson -- and we`re going to show you their pictures -- they were convicted of misdemeanor cruelty to animals along with another man named Billy McBride. And then you have the other individual, Brian Douglas, who pleaded guilty to felonious cruelty to animals.

Now he was sentenced to 30 days in jail for his crimes. Again, his conviction a big deal because it is a first felony conviction of -- in U.S. history for cruelty to factory farm poultry. What would you say to people who say, well, we`re not talking about cows or pigs, all of whom also there are controversies surrounding their treatment in factory farms but we`re talking about poultry?

RUNKLE: Well, birds suffer pain in the same way as pigs and cows and dogs and cats. These animals are intelligent. They have feelings and they deserve our consideration and respect. As a civilized society we should not be subjecting any animals to inhumane treatment especially birds that are used for food by the billions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about how the consumer can get involved because ultimately this is a consumer issue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This hidden camera footage at multiple Butterball Turkey factory farms in North Carolina exposes an ongoing pattern of cruelty and severe neglect. Birds suffering from broken bones or crippling leg deformities due to their unnaturally large size are callously picked up by their wings or necks and thrown through the air.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This conviction for animal cruelty felony in the state of North Carolina occurred after a Mercy for Animals undercover investigation. Good news for turkeys but what about all the other undercover investigations involving, for example, cows and veal calves in other states and pigs? Living in these factory farm conditions that are many, many, many people believe are cruel what about these Ag gag laws that are being introduced, Nathan?

RUNKLE: Well, these Ag gag bills have one purpose and that`s to silence whistleblowers and to shield animal abusers on factory farms from public scrutiny. We believe that consumers have a right to know how their food is being produced and these bills are un-American and we feel unconstitutional.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this, Little Rico, you`re not that different from that pig right there. If you want to get involved, Mercy for Animals.

Nancy next.

END