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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Interview with Senator John McCain; Interview with Maria Menounos; Interview with Clive Davis; Interview with General Pervez Musharraf
Aired March 8, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, is the TSA putting your life at risk? Allowing pocket knives, baseball pats, maybe even machetes back on planes.
Senator McCain says enough is enough.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think maybe we need a congressional hearing on the whole issue.
MORGAN: He joins us to talk about that and Osama bin Laden's son-in-law on American soil.
MCCAIN: I believe he's an enemy combatant and he should be in Guantanamo.
MORGAN: Also, growing pains, wild night, passing out, smoking pot, fighting with photographers. What's really going on with Justin Bieber?
JUSTIN BIEBER, SINGER: What did you say? (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
MORGAN: "Extra's" Maria Menounos knows him well. She joins me.
And the music man, hit maker Clive Davis, on Whitney Houston, Jennifer Hudson and his love for women and men.
CLIVE DAVIS, MUSIC PRODUCER: I found that the attitude in general toward bisexuality is you're either gay, you're straight or you're lying.
MORGAN: This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
MORGAN: Good evening.
The stage is set for dramatic trial in New York City. Osama bin Laden's son-in-law and mouth piece is in a Manhattan jail after pleading not guilty to terrorism charges. It's the first time that New Yorkers got to see this member of the al Qaeda inner circle face- to-face, and it comes on a very busy day on America's security front.
There's also the stinging criticism of the TSA's new policy, allowing small knives and bats on planes. It comes as the former chief of the agency wants to go even further, saying passengers should be allowed to go on board with battle-axes and even machetes.
A lot of people are stunned by it, including my first guest, Senator John McCain who is making news right here about it.
Senator, welcome to you.
MCCAIN: Thank you, Piers. It's nice to be back.
You're all over the news again today, predominantly involving Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, who plead not guilty today in a Manhattan court.
You're not happy at all that he's been tried in a criminal court. Why is that?
MCCAIN: Because I believe he's an enemy combatant, and according to the rules of war, he should be tried as such under a military commission and he should be in Guantanamo. And one of the questions that should be asked, if that is not the case, and it's clearly not, how soon was he given his Miranda rights, and that -- if he has been, his good lawyers will tell him not to talk. We need intelligence.
MORGAN: You said in your statement you issued this afternoon that you believe the American people did not want him to be tried in an American civilian criminal court. But I interviewed Jim Riches last night, a New York former fire chief, whose own son died on 9/11. And he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM RICHES, FORMER FDNY DEPUTY CHIEF: These people played politics, the Republicans and Democrats, with the trials of these men. It's wrong. They should be brought to trial.
Two hundred fifty-four men have been tried in federal court, and it's gone well. Now, they try to play politics with this. And we have been held up. We're in pretrial motions with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Let's get these trials going in New York City. All that people that were affected that day can go and see the trials. And that's where they should be, in New York City.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: What do you say to him, Senator, because he reflects the views of many of the 9/11 families feel. They want to see justice right in New York, right where that atrocity happened. And they're pleased that he's being tried there.
MCCAIN: Well, the last time that was contemplated, as you may recall, there were estimates of the cost of security in the millions of dollars.
But more importantly, these are enemy combatants. We're in a long struggle with the forces of al Qaeda and radical extremism. And if you give someone their Miranda rights, which means that if they're in civilian court, then they're not an enemy combatant, they're just an ordinary criminal.
But if you do that, and any good lawyer is going to tell them not to say anything, then that prevents us from having the ability to get intelligence -- without use of torture, by the way -- to get intelligence information that would probably prevent another tragedy and another father such as we just heard from.
MORGAN: Do you have any way of changing this? If they had gone behind Congress' back as you claimed, do you think you can get this overturned legally?
MCCAIN: Probably not. The president, I think, has those authorities.
But I'm sure that we will be trying to prevent that from happening because for the reasons that I just stated to you. We are in an ongoing struggle with these people. They are on the rise all over North Africa. They are in Iraq again in training camps. They are in field, coming to Syria in huge numbers.
So to somehow think that this isn't going to be a long twilight struggle with these people, of which intelligence is a vital aspect of, is a gross misreading of the situation as we see al Qaeda resurging all over the Middle East and in other parts of the world as well.
MORGAN: Let's turn to drones, and in particular, Senator Rand Paul's epic 13-hour filibuster which you have already gone very publicly on the attack about. You thought that he was effectively doing the American public a disservice by putting an unnecessary and unfounded fear into their heads.
Is that right?
MCCAIN: Yes, I think that to assume that the United States of America would use a drone and a hellfire missile to attack someone sitting in a cafe -- look, this goes back to our previous conversation. We want to capture people. We don't want to kill them.
The reason why we have to kill them in places like Yemen and other places is because we don't have the military force with the capabilities to do it.
Second of all, to -- for example, to compare killing a terrorist, an al Qaeda person who is trying to attack the United States of America with Jane Fonda, I mean, it is ludicrous. I'm not a great fan of Jane Fonda's, as you probably know, Piers, but the fact -- and she might have even given aid and comfort to the enemy in the view of some. But the fact is, to think that the United States would ever contemplate killing Jane Fonda with a drone if we had the capability is again -- I mean, it's not the world of reality that we are living in.
But there are threats. Suppose there's another airplane headed for the United States capital, such as the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. I can assure you that -- and I'm confident that we have the capability if necessary, the president, to shoot the plane down. There may be innocent Americans on that plane.
So it's -- to me, here we have the North Koreans testing nuclear weapons, threatening to attack the United States of America. Iran, the centrifuges continue to spin. Eighty thousand people killed now at least or 70,000 in Syria; the whole Middle East in a state of near chaos in many areas.
And frankly, my highest priority is not my concern that they may kill an American with a hellfire missile in a cafe in the United States of America. It's not my concern.
MORGAN: Some are saying that all Rand Paul was doing was trying to solicit that very confirmation from Eric Holder, the attorney general, and indeed he appears to have done that and that's part of a vigorous democratic process and he was behaving exactly the way a senator should behave.
Newt Gingrich, amongst other Republicans, has come down pretty tough on you personally, and I want to play you what he said on FOX and get your hopefully very volatile reaction back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: When I first knew John McCain in the House, he was a maverick. In the Senate for years, he was a maverick. Of everybody I know in the Senate, I don't know anybody who had a better record of bucking the leadership, doing what he thought mattered, marching to his own drummer.
And I think that it's so unfortunate, but I think frankly it doesn't hurt Ted Cruz and it doesn't hurt Rand Paul. It hurts John McCain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: So the allegation is you're a bit of an old fuddy-duddy now, Senator, and the old maverick John McCain would have supported Rand Paul.
MCCAIN: Well, you know, I am always intrigued by the fact that when I disagree with my own party leadership, my own president, like saying that Donald Rumsfeld ought to resign, we need to do the surge, then I'm a brave maverick. When I'm taking on others, then he's just an angry old man.
Look, I'll always do what I think is right. I think I understand national security. I have been involved in it in one way or another since I was 17, and I believe that the priorities that we were just talking about are the ones we should be spending 13 hours on. Why isn't the United States of America helping the Syrians who are being massacred as we speak, and the million -- now over a million refugees? What are we going to do about the North Koreans who are now basically threatening to strike the United States of America? What are we going to do about the centrifuges in Tehran?
Instead, we spend 13 hours warning the American people that we may put a hellfire missile on an innocent American in a cafe. That was never the case.
But there may be an extraordinary circumstance where there's an impending attack on the United States of America that we would have to respond in any way possible to prevent another 9/11. I believe that's what the attorney general of the United States was trying to say.
MORGAN: Do you have any message for Newt Gingrich?
MCCAIN: Oh, listen, Newt and I have been friends for many, many years. I respect his opinions. He's a very bright guy. I'm not going to -- we'll remain friends.
MORGAN: Let's turn to the TSA. They have announced they're going to allow a number of pen knives and other implements of that nature back onto planes, and a former TSA chief who ran the TSA for five years until recently, Kip Hawley, has told CNN that he would go further. He said they ought to let everything on that's sharp and pointy. Battle-axes, machetes, bring anything you want that's pointy and sharp, because while you may be able to commit an act of violence, you will not be able to take over the plane. It's as simple as that.
What is your reaction to that?
MCCAIN: I think maybe we need a congressional hearing on the whole issue of what is a danger to the entire flight and what we should -- I think we need to call witnesses since they have made this policy change.
To be honest with you, Piers, I think I'm an expert on a number of issues. I'm not that well-versed on that one. It might be good for the Homeland Security Committee to have an oversight on that.
My concern is that our TSA procedures have basically not changed in the last 12 years. They're still having to do invasive body searches. We still wait in long, long lines.
Couldn't we have a fast lane? Couldn't we have -- develop a technology where we could all just walk through?
I mean, in other words, I have not seen a single advance in technology in expediting people through airports since we put these procedures in place in 9/11. That's what I would like to know about.
MORGAN: It does seem --
MCCAIN: I'm sure I say -- I'm sure I say that for a selfish reason because of the frequency of my visits to airports.
MORGAN: I'm in the same boat, and I share you frustrations. Particularly it's when I board a plane, for example, in London at Heathrow to come to New York, I don't have to take my shoes off anymore. So there's no consistency now between countries and airlines on the same routes, which I find quite baffling.
In terms of this knife issue, I just can't for the life of me understand why the TSA's first relaxation of these very stringent rules would allow people to take onboard the very kind of weapon that the 9/11 hijackers deployed to take control of that plane. I mean, they used box cutters and pen knives.
Well, look, I think it's a legitimate concern. I think that you would have to make -- they're not obviously making the case to the American people in a way that Americans find satisfactory.
This is again a role of Congress to find out exactly why they're making the decisions that they are.
I'm very skeptical about that decision. But I have to tell you again, I'm not that much of an expert on this particular aspect of it. That's why we need to bring them -- haul them out before a committee and have them explain it, and ask the right questions that you're asking right now.
MORGAN: Senator McCain, always great to talk to you. Thank you very much.
MCCAIN: Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming up next, a teen superstar out of control. What is going on with Justin Bieber? I'll ask "Extra's" Maria Menounos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA MENOUNOS, "EXTRA" HOST/ACTRESS: You know, this actually might be fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little doggy. He's going to the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Maria Menounos doing double duty, starring and producing a movie, "The Adventures of Serial Buddies."
Also talking about the stories of the day, including Bieber-gate.
Joining me now is the host of "Extra", Maria.
(INAUDIBLE) spoken (ph) to you.
MENOUNOS: Thanks for having me.
MORGAN: How are you?
MENOUNOS: I'm great. How are you?
MORGAN: This looks a fun gig, the movie.
MENOUNOS: Oh, yes.
MORGAN: Your little role (ph).
MENOUNOS: It's always a labor of love when you make an independent film, and this was definitely that. But we had an incredible cast, including Christopher Lloyd, Chris McDonald, Artie Lange, Kathie Lee Gifford, Beth Behrs, (INAUDIBLE) roles, and we had a great time, and it was best described as "Dumb and Dumber" meets "Dexter".
So we call it the first serial killer buddy film of all time. And we're going to be in AMC theaters starting tonight all over the country, so we're ecstatic. I mean, to make a movie is hard enough, but to actually get it into theaters is impossible.
MORGAN: I saw you tweeting a picture of you standing by an enormous billboard in Times Square here in New York. You were very overexcited by this.
MENOUNOS: I was. It's so amazing to have that billboard right next to Oprah. I was just like, shocked.
MORGAN: I have also been following your other tweets this week because it was a very pleasing picture you tweeted of yourself lying backwards in a swimming pool. I think we have this.
MENOUNOS: So embarrassing. Oh, my goodness, I'm not going to live this down.
MORGAN: I don't think you ever want to live that down. Why would you want to live that down? It's one of the great photographs in celebrity history.
Let's turn to Justin Bieber because you know the Biebster. You have been interviewing him. He's at the center of what appears to be almost a daily soap opera now. First of all, all the topless pictures of him, he seems a bit weird, then he's wearing Michael Jackson masks, then he's not turning up in time for concerts in London, and he faints.
Then last night, we've got a clip of this, he has an extraordinary bust up with this paparazzo in London. Let's watch a bit of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're in our way.
Get out of the way.
BIEBER: What did you say? What did you say?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Pretty extraordinary to se Justin Bieber in that kind of situation, f-ing and bliming (ph) at a photographer and threatening to beat him up.
Having said that, when you hear the unfiltered version, the photographer was incredibly abusive to him first.
MENOUNOS: Oh, yes.
MORGAN: I've got great sympathy for Justin Bieber in that moment.
But what is going on with him? Is he basically a kid now with the growing pains of superstardom, reaching his late teens, probably worrying about the image of being a young teen heartthrob? He knows for most teen heartthrobs, it never lasts.
Is he feeling the heat now, you think?
MENOUNOS: I'm sure. There's an incredible amount of pressure on young stars. I mean, you can see he's running to the car so he doesn't get attacks. And, you know, when people are screaming those things at you, it's not easy to hold it together, especially when you're -- you know, so pressured.
So, you know, it's tough. I think that, you know, things happen like this. He went to Twitter, I know, afterwards, and apologized and said they got the best of him. But, you know, it's going to happen.
MORGAN: I mean, this thing of being hugely famous in the modern era, they all say the same thing, that 50 years ago, a Justin Bieber- like character would be protected. You know, there wasn't the social media, the Twitter, the Facebook, the instant photography that everybody now has with their phones and so on.
Almost if you're that kind of famous as he is with over 20 million followers on Twitter, for example, everywhere you go becomes this glorified public goldfish bowl. There is no escape.
MENOUNOS: Oh, yes, remember Prince Harry. I mean, wherever people go, if you're well known, you have to be on the look out. It's really hard to be on your best behavior at all times. Sometimes, I'll get all upset and I'm like, well, I'm lucky someone wasn't filming me when I was upset or had my moment.
You know, we're all human. You're human. You're going to have a moment, just whether someone sort of capture it (ph).
MORGAN: Well, I have been on both sides. It's a bit of a deal with the devil I think on both sides.
MENOUNOS: Absolutely. I think it's difficult to see it unless you're walking in their shoes and feeling what they're feeling. You know, when you're being picked at all day long, everybody wants something from you.
MORGAN: And it's fun for a while, I think.
MENOUNOS: It is.
MORGAN: When they get to the point where they can't turn the tap off and they probably want to, by then, it's to late. The genie is out of the bottle and he's the most famous whatever he is, 18-year-old in the world now.
MENOUNOS: Absolutely. It's hard.
MORGAN: Taylor Swift has come into her 20s, 23 years old. She's been through the whole teen thing. She's been in the news recently.
Were Amy Poehler and Tina Fey a little unfair to her, did you think, at the Golden Globes with their jibe about her young boyfriends?
MENOUNOS: You know, I have to say that we have to get a little less sensitive, you know, with the comedians. We're starting to get really sensitive to what they're saying. And I know it's hard when you're the target, but Amy Poehler and Tina Fey were just having fun and making, you know, a funny joke. It wasn't meant to hurt her, necessarily. I'm sure that was not their intention.
MORGAN: She said, you know, Katie Couric is one of my favorite people because she said to me she heard a quote that she loved that said, "There's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women," to which Amy Poehler's response was, "Aw, I feel bad if she's upset. I'm a feminist, and she is a young and talented girl. That be said, I do agree that I'm going to hell, but mainly for other reasons involving boring tax stuff."
Tina Fey said, "If anyone is going to get mad at us, I thought it would be James Cameron. I didn't see that one coming. It was a joke, a lighthearted joke."
That's the point you're making, is everyone getting a little thin-skinned here?
MENOUNOS: I think we really are. I mean, look at Seth MacFarlane getting so much heat for his, you know, his performance in certain parts of the Oscars. I think we're just getting to sensitive, and again, I understand it's difficult when you're the target. However, you should, you know, you should know it's a joke. And I don't think they intended anything bad.
MORGAN: I'm with you.
MENOUNOS: Don't get your panties in a bunch.
MORGAN: Let's take a break. Coming up next, I want to talk to you about Marissa Mayer and Yahoo chief's ban on working from home, because you have strong views about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS & ACTIVIST: It's important that women know that they support each other. The point is that people, women gain strength by seeing other women and men that are recognize their problems and stand behind them. And so it's very -- in that sense, it's very significant.
I'm a woman. I have a daughter. I think we reach out to each other and support each other and having a day where you can focus is really great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Oscar winner Susan Sarandon talking to me earlier. She spent the day at the U.N. for International Women's Day.
And I'm back now with the host of "Extra", Maria Menounos.
International Women's Day, what does it mean to you? Is it an important thing to have, you think, to affirm to the world that women matter?
MENOUNOS: I think absolutely. You know, women are important and an important subject. I think that having a day and an event where they get together and figure out ways to empower each other is so important.
MORGAN: The big issue this week has been a combination of Sheryl Sandberg and Marissa Mayer coming out. Marissa is basically banning her staff from working at home. Sheryl Sandberg saying women are far too passive really in the work place. If you get out there, lean in, fight more for their rights.
Let's talk about Marissa Mayer, first. What is your view about women working from home, in particular, women?
MENOUNOS: Well, I think it's really hard to work from home. I know with my staff, I have a difficult time. I know that you can work from home with technology. And there are times when it's OK if they're not feeling well. Absolutely, go home and work from there.
But I know even for myself, I'm very driven. I'm an extremely hard worker. It is really hard to work from home and not be distracted.
And so, I prefer to stay at work late and get it done there and then get home and know it's all behind me.
For example, we're promoting this movie this weekend. I had my entire staff there all working together. I'm getting a high off their energy. They're getting a high off my energy, and we're doing better work that way. So, I'm a team player. I like working with teams. And so I think that I agree.
MORGAN: Part of the whole having it all thing is of course balancing having kids in particular if you're a successful working woman. You're a very successful woman. You talked, I think last year, about potentially freezing your eggs to effectively try to have it all, if you like, and choose the moment when you can have children, but you didn't go through with it.
Tell me about that?
MENOUNOS: I started to, but it didn't really work out. I need some more time to kick start my system. And so I was doing the rounds of medication, and nothing was really happening, and at one point, they told me I couldn't have kids, and that was a really scary situation.
But I'm fine. And so now the battle is when. And, you know, you have --
MORGAN: I mean, it's a big -- I think it's a huge problem for the modern woman. And you're a classic example of somebody at the top of their game in their chosen career, but you're having to think now about the ramifications of having a baby.
You want one. But you know that if you do, everything changes.
MORGAN: To pretend it doesn't is either stupid or naive of people.
MENOUNOS: Absolutely. And that's where I agree with Sheryl is, you know, I'm instantly making a barrier in my mind. Just like she says in her book, I'm already blocking out possibilities. I'm already thinking, how am I going to do this? There's no way I can do this.
And I'm so nervous at how I'm going to make it all work. And, you know, the notion of being able to do it all is really a burden. It's really difficult to think if that's possible. And you're making a huge commitment by bringing in a life to this world, so I'm definitely nervous about it.
But I love that she wrote this book because I'm going to read it, and I know I'm going to be inspired to figure out ways to put that out of my head, go forward, do what I have to do, and figure out a way.
She figured out a way. She goes home at 5:30 every day, she sees her family, she sees her kids, and she goes back to work. And I feel like if we as women do start to delete that barrier from our brain, the "I can't, I can't," I do it, too, and I feel like I'm a really motivated individual, and I am very successful, but I still do it, too.
She says finding the right partner is really important. And I 100 percent agree with that. I have been with my partner for -- it will be 15 years in April.
MORGAN: He directs this movie, doesn't he?
MENOUNOS: Yes, he's the director of the movie and, you know, he is sharing in all of the responsibilities and, in fact, takes on most of the responsibilities where men have such a difficult time being the man behind the woman, he's actually such a great example of someone who is comfortable in that position and you know fills the slots where he has to so that I can go off and do my work.
And I think that men in this day and age are very nervous about that, and if they just embraced it a little better, there would be a little more harmony at home.
MORGAN: Maria, it's been a great interview. Much, much better than Mario's, when he came on the show. You're just way smarter than that guy, so you can come back anytime. But Mario, the door shut for him.
MENOUNOS: Oh, no, Mario, sorry (ph) --
MORGAN: I'm only kidding. I love Mario.
MENOUNOS: Thank you, I appreciate it.
MORGAN: We can see you, of course, on "Extra" and "Adventures of Serial Buddies" is out now. And, given all that, you're also the face of Marshall's. Congratulations, Maria.
MENOUNOS: Thank you.
MORGAN: I'm seething with resentment. Nice to see you.
MENOUNOS: Thank you.
See? And that's what she says, too. She says people resent successful women -- men and women. So you know what?
MORGAN: Get out of here.
Coming up next, I talk with music legend Clive Davis -- his biggest stars, his biggest hits, and why he revealed his biggest personal secret.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MORGAN: The word "legend" is massively overused in the music business, but Clive Davis is a true legend. He's worked with Whitney Houston, Bruce Springsteen, Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand. And those are some of the lesser known names that he's made records with over the last five, six decades.
He's now making news with his revealing and extraordinary new book, "The Sound Track of My Life."
Clive, welcome back.
DAVIS: Thank you so much.
MORGAN: It's a fascinating book, simply for the sheer scale and volume of incredible talent that you've worked with for so long.
When you look back and when you finished it, what did you think about the career you've had?
DAVIS: You know, in doing it -- and you feel it -- the impact didn't, you know, work on me, there's no question about it. I mean starting the Joplin and then going through to Alicia and Jennifer Hudson, I feel good about it. I felt really good about it. And I hope that I was revealing and -- and that if someone really loves music or wants to know more about music, I think I've got it all there from the heart.
MORGAN: Well, this is what I really liked. In the introduction, you talked about the power of music, "Discovering my love for music and my ability to find and develop art has been the greatest gift in my life. It's filled even hard days with moments of excitement. It made it possible for me to have thrilling experiences I could never have imagined."
But here's what I really liked. "I've never grown the least bit jaded about the powerful effect music can have, how it can make all distinctions among people disappear and unite them in energy and pleasure."
I love that because, you know, people say about Clive Davis, you know, why does he keep so enthusiastic, why is he so lacking in the normal cynicism that tends to seep into the business?
And it seems to me, it's -- it's right there. It's about the love of music for you, isn't it?
DAVIS: You know, it was totally by luck that I had gotten into music. My parents died when I was in my late teens. I had no money, so I studied law to get above my station.
I became the lawyer three years out for Columbia Records. Five years later, I was made head of the company.
I didn't prepare for it. So to discover that music is my passion, to discover that after one artist after another made it, if you will, and that I had a natural gift, I mean brought true joy. So I love what I do. I'm blessed in that respect.
MORGAN: Has your ear gotten better or does it inevitably deteriorate over the years?
DAVIS: I'd like to --
MORGAN: Be honest.
DAVIS: -- say that I get report cards, we get report cards every Wednesday. And the report cards are still real good, so that whether in recent years, it was finding kids for Leona Lewis or working with Jennifer Hudson, or on top of what happened with Whitney or Alicia Keys and other artists, I feel good about it.
I wouldn't do it if the report cards were embarrassing.
MORGAN: Well, I'm sure you wouldn't. And I wasn't suggesting it for a moment there. No, you've always had an incredible record.
Jennifer Hudson is an interesting one to me. When I heard her performing at recent events, I actually sat back, watching on television. And I thought, hard to imagine that almost anybody you've worked with has had a better, more powerful voice than that girl.
Am I wrong?
DAVIS: No, you're not wrong.
MORGAN: She has the biggest, most powerful and purest of all the female voices. But I think it -- history may judge her in 10, 20, 30 years, as one of the truly great singers.
DAVIS: Well, I believe that and I'm thrilled to be working with her.
MORGAN: Now, the music is only part of this, because the soundtrack of your life includes some fascinatingly honest detail --
MORGAN: -- about you, Clive Davis, your private life. It's made lots of headlines. I'm not -- I'm not breaching any confidence when I say you've had an interesting personal life.
You got married twice to women, but as you're very honest in the book about, you're bisexual. And you've been involved in two lengthy relationships with men, including one now.
What has been the reaction to these revelations in the book?
And have you been surprised by them? DAVIS: I've not been surprised, honestly.
But, firstly, from my family, from my children, who have known, this wasn't that I was bisexual when I was married. This is something that only occurred after my second marriage failed.
DAVIS: So for the first time, having failed in marriage twice, not related at all to sex, I opened myself up to the possibility of having a relationship with a person rather than a gender. And that's what I turned to.
But I found that the attitude in general toward bisexuality is you're either gay, you're straight or you're lying.
DAVIS: To me, it's not been that case. It may be, even though this is just a part of my life, and I wanted to -- we wrote a biography without disclosing that, maybe some good will come of it.
MORGAN: I've always suspected that people who say they're bisexual, the celebrities I've seen who've said it, probably are gay.
DAVIS: There's a healthy degree of skepticism. I'm here to say that bisexuality does exist. And for me, I turned to it after my second marriage failed. And I dated women and I dated a few men. And I ended up in a relationship with a man.
MORGAN: Gay marriage is now legal in seven or eight states in America.
Would you like to get married to a man one day?
DAVIS: I've been married twice. That's enough for me.
DAVIS: So and on that subject, you know, I've -- I've been --
MORGAN: But are you -- are you pleased to see the way the gay marriage debate has gone?
DAVIS: Oh, I'm very pleased. I support same-sex marriage. I'm really so happy that President Obama has taken an affirmative position. I'm happy to see the public opinion polls that know that this is right and the right thing to do.
So that, yes, I support it and we contribute to the cause.
MORGAN: Kenny Clarkson got her -- her lather going about your book, saying that your suggestion that she was a, let's face it, a bit of a prima donna, over-emotional, difficult to work with, was completely untrue. And she issued this extraordinary e-mail responding to you. What did you feel about that?
DAVIS: Look, well, as far as Kelly is concerned -- and I've been talking about that -- we had a different judgment as to how she reacted to two songs that I gave her that become huge hits, "Since You've Been Gone," and "Behind These Hazel Eyes," as well, you know, as "Break Away" and others.
She felt I had a different reaction to a song that she was involved in. We have had differences and what she has said in the family, when you grow up -- and she knew -- stated publicly, Clive has been there for me from the very beginning. And so there are disputes. We --
MORGAN: Have you spoken to her since?
DAVIS: This is a dispute.
No, but I feel that my book is accurate. I want to say right in front of you, Kelly Clarkson is a big talent. And seeing her on the Grammys this year, seeing her, you know, do the -- "The Tennessee Waltz" and "Natural Woman," she is a major voice.
MORGAN: Now, here's a difficult one for you, Clive. I thought, don't (INAUDIBLE) the book, I thought, right, I'm going to put you on the spot.
I notice by choosing your favorite babies here, but you're on a desert island. You can take one singer, one album and one song.
DAVIS: I can't and I won't. It's not that you've been easy since this minute.
The point of (INAUDIBLE) is I would probably take Whitney's greatest hits, because each song, I was there, and with my A&R staff, finding for her. So each song is a separate memory.
MORGAN: And it's so amazing. What would the single be?
DAVIS: "Bridge Over Troubled Water" with Simon & Garfunkel.
MORGAN: Oh, OK.
DAVIS: Without question.
MORGAN: And, finally, which artist would you take?
MORGAN: If you could have one to sing to you for the rest of your life, just you and them on a desert island?
DAVIS: Well, let me -- I would point to Alicia Keys, who, with Pager Edge (ph), I discovered, a Renaissance young woman who writes her own materials, stunning to look at, a major talent within the industry. She's up there as the bar, as the best example of a young artist that we could all be proud of.
And I love Jennifer Hudson's voice, without question.
MORGAN: All right, you can have Jennifer, too.
Clive, it's been a pleasure.
DAVIS: Thank you. Thank you.
MORGAN: It's a fascinating book. (INAUDIBLE) to read it. It's selling like hot cakes. It's called "The Soundtrack of My Life." It's available now. It's great stories.
DAVIS: Thank you.
MORGAN: From a great legend.
It's great to see you.
DAVIS: And you.
MORGAN: We'll be right back.
MORGAN: He's a former president of Pakistan, and next week, General Pervez Musharraf is returning to his country, bringing an end to his self-imposed exile.
It's a dangerous move for him. He's facing the possibility of arrest, even death threats.
General Musharraf joins me now exclusively.
General Musharraf, welcome back to the show, you decided to go back to Pakistan.
PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, FORMER PRESIDENT OF PASKISTAN: Thank you.
MORGAN: It's going to be a risky trip for you.
Explain to me why you're doing this.
MUSHARRAF: Well, it is risky, certainly, I do understand that. But when I formed this party, the point was to go back and fight the elections. Why I'm going back is to do something for the country. The cause is much greater than self.
So, therefore, I'm prepared to take the risks of the sake of my country.
MORGAN: Military generals warned you not to return last year. And you decided not to and took their advice. The reason you're going back now is because of the elections. What do you see the modern day Pakistan as being? And how would you change it?
MUSHARRAF: Well, I -- yes, you're right. In the past, about a year back when I wanted to go, there were indications that they didn't want me to come, and my own colleagues told me not to come. Therefore, I changed my mind. However, now, what do I want to do? That is an important question. What does the country have? What potential the country has.
I personally believe the country has tremendous potential and it has all the resources to do well. And when it is not doing well, I -- my motivation to go back and correct the situation, bring it back to the level where I left it, is what motivates me to go back.
And I believe what I want to do is to create a stature for the country, and I have my own four-point agenda which I had, which is internal stability, regional peace, international acceptability, and playing a role, rightful role for Pakistan in the socioeconomic uplift of the Muslim world.
These are the roles that I see for Pakistan. And internally, one has to correct the situation on terrorism and extremism and put the economy in order. These are the broad strategic objectives of mine.
MORGAN: Have you seen the movie "Zero Dark Thirty" yet?
MUSHARRAF: No, I haven't. I do intend seeing it.
MORGAN: From what you have heard of it, what is -- what is your opinion?
MUSHARRAF: What I have heard about it, it's a good movie, all right. But they don't depict Pakistan in a positive light. Well, there are problems in Pakistan, but there are a lot of positives of Pakistan which doesn't -- which I feel should also be portrayed.
MORGAN: The capture and killing of Osama bin Laden put another strain on the U.S.-Pakistan relationship because of the covert nature of that operation. People are saying that relationship has never been worse.
What is the quickest and best way to fix that international relationship between Pakistan and the United States?
MUSHARRAF: I feel, yes, they have never been that bad, and I think in my time, the relations were good, although we were facing the same threat, and we were dealing with the threat in our own ways. There were lots of differences of point, but I feel that the main difference is I had good communication, and I personally believe that interstate relations have a lot to do with interpersonal relations.
I have very good interpersonal relations with President George Bush. I have very good interpersonal relations with General Colin Powell. We could communicate with each other any time, and we spoke very, very frankly. There was no -- trust -- there was total trust and confidence between us. We knew that each one of them is speaking the truth, and we knew that what we say we meant.
So these are issues which are the basis, the prerequisites of good relations. Then you can resolve disputes, but if there's a lack of trust and confidence, there's a breakdown of relations. I think that's what has happened in Pakistan. There's no trust and confidence in each other.
MORGAN: Finally, General, there's an ongoing debate in America about the use of drones in Pakistan and Afghanistan and other countries. And indeed a debate about whether the American government should if it wished to, use drones in America.
What is your view of the use of drones generally?
MUSHARRAF: Well, use of drones, there are two uses of drones. One is to locate the enemy or locate the militants, which mean the photography part. The other part is to deal with the enemy once located. Once identified.
But what is not acceptable is the collateral damage it causes sometimes, many times, I would say. That is what creates a very bad, wrong reaction in the Pakistani public. So therefore, we have to be extremely careful on using drones.
I always proposed that the drones should be given to Pakistan because the other element is the violation of our sovereignty, by the way. Any drones coming from any other country and violating our air space, Pakistan's air space, is another issue of tension in Pakistan.
So why not give the drones to Pakistan? That was my proposal, but we didn't get them.
MORGAN: General Musharraf, good to talk to you and best of luck with your trip back to Pakistan.
MUSHARRAF: Thank you very much. I need that.
MORGAN: And we'll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been in and out of foster care for most of my life. When you move from place to place, you don't really get the same connections that your peers have. You get very insecure. You don't think that people really care about your desires and wishes.
DANIELLE GLETOW, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: When I became a foster parent, I realized a lot of these children decide that it's not worth wishing anymore because it isn't going to happen. People have made promises to them that they haven't kept. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to take any of the babies?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here you go.
GLETOW: Everything is brand new. I thought, how do we give them the feeling that people are out there that care about you even if you have never met them.
My name Danielle Gletow, and I have made wishes come true for thousands of foster children all over the country. Anybody anywhere anytime can look at hundreds of wishes from children in foster care.
Working on auditioning for a play, and he needs the radio in order to practice with his audition C.D.
Wishes are as unique as the children who make them, and so personal.
Isn't that beautiful?
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Yes.
GLETOW: These small things make an enormous difference in the life of a child. It's really just a kid being a kid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wish was for a suit so that I could attend a family member's funeral. It meant a lot that someone took the time and they knew that was important.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This looks awesome.
GLETOW: When a child's wish is granted, we are assuring them their voices are being heard.
UNIDENTIFIED KID: I love you, Evie (ph).
GLETOW: That there is this big world out there that just wants to wrap their arms around them and protect them. And we need to all step up and do that.