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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
World Waits for New Pope; Christine Quinn Runs for Mayor; Sheryl Sandberg Says "Lean In"; Women Leaders in America Responding to Facebook CEO's New Book
Aired March 11, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Tonight, the countdown begins, the first secret vote in the Sistine Chapel just hours away. Will it be white smoke or black?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's unlikely that there would be white smoke on the first ballots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Could there be an American Pope this time? I'll ask a close friend of the archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan.
Plus, New York's soda ban fizzles out. I'll talk to the woman who wants to be the next mayor, Christine Quinn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE QUINN (D), NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL SPEAKER: Today I'm announcing I'm officially running to be the mayor of the great city of New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: What do women really want? I'll talk to four very successful females about supposedly having it all. Do they think getting to the top is as simple as two words, lean in?
Also, the undercover reporter who walked into the Texas gun show and walked out with an AR-15, no questions asked.
This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE.
Good evening. You're looking live at the Vatican where the work of electing a new Pope is about to begin. Tomorrow morning, the cardinals, 115 of them, they held a -- hold a mass at St. Peter's Basilica which will be open to the public in the afternoon, and process to the Sistine Chapel where each will swear an oath of secrecy. And once they close those doors the conclave begins and the world will have no hint of what's going on inside until smoke, white smoke begins rising from the chapel chimney. It's all very exciting for us Catholics and it could be a long wait, though. The longest conclave of the past hundred years went on for five days. So batten down and brace yourselves for the long slog of deciding who the new Pope will be.
What should we expect this time around? Well, joining me now is Lino Rulli,. He's the host of the "Catholic Guy" on SiriusXM Satellite Radio, and the Reverend John Fitzgibbons, president of Regis University.
Welcome to you both. Let me start with you, if I may, Lino. You're down there in Rome. I would imagine pretty exciting in the moment.
LINO RULLI, THE CATHOLIC CHANNEL ON SIRIUSXM: Very exciting at the moment. The past moments, the future, all of these moments are very exciting. There's a ton of anticipation, enthusiasm. Of course, this is not exactly the first time Rome has elected a Pope. But as you can imagine, there's a ton of excitement and there's a ton of talking. Everybody in this town has an opinion. Italians like to talk, and as an Italian-American we talk with our mouths, we talk with our hands.
There's a lot of talking going on saying, what do you think, what do we need a new Pope, do we need a black Pope, do we need a white Pope. Does the Pope -- not saying we need a white Pope but do we need a Pope who's interested in this, that or the other. So there's a lot of excitement and of course there's also a lot of waiting because there's not a lot we can do about it.
MORGAN: Well, absolutely right. Let's turn to you, if I may, Reverend Fitzgibbons. I mean, it is exciting because it could be a big surprise. We could have the first African Pope, the first South American Pope, possibly even the first American Pope. So we could see history, but the Catholic Church is known to be pretty conservative and the clever money, I would argue, is probably going on a non- surprising choice. What do you think will happen?
REV. JOHN FITZGIBBONS, PRESIDENT, REGIS UNIVERSITY: Well, I can't really predict but I think you're right. We could very well be surprised. My own money is on Cardinal Scola. He's remarkable, he's a great pastor and he's a very strong organizer. But I will confess the dark horse in my judgment is Cardinal Dolan.
MORGAN: So Cardinal Dolan, he's got -- he is on the people's vote but from what I hear, and maybe, Lino, I'll come back to you on this. From what I hear, he doesn't have the cardinal support. In fact Cardinal O'Malley in Boston has a lot more support than Cardinal Dolan has. Am I right?
RULLI: Yes, and don't you love, by the way, Cardinal O'Malley out of Boston, Cardinal Dolan out of New York. Somehow we still made this a Boston and New York rivalry all the way, thousands of miles away.
How do we do that one? You're right, but it's primarily because Cardinal Dolan in a lot of people's opinions is too American. He loves baseball, he loves beer and he loves being loud. For a lot of people, cardinals in the church, that's a little bit shocking to them, quite frankly. Cardinals sometimes, they're a little bit more like this, not like this, and Cardinal O'Malley's a great man but also maybe fits this characteristic a little bit better.
Also important to keep in mind he oftentimes wears the brown habit. You usually see him wearing a brown habit, which is reminiscent of another very famous saint here in Italy by the name of Padre Pio. Italians love Padre Pio. Same outfit. Maybe a correlation there.
MORGAN: And, Reverend Fitzgibbons, I mean, as the tension mounts over the next few days, we have no idea, they could come back tomorrow, it could be Friday or Saturday, for all we know.
As people start to get to grips with the kind of Pope that may be succeeding Pope Benedict, everyone is talking about the R word, reform. What do you think reform really means to these cardinals? Are they likely -- for example, I saw a recent poll, we talked about this on my show before, in Germany more than 70 percent of all the Catholics in Germany were in support of priests being allowed to marry, of female priests being permissible now in the Catholic Church, and in divorced Catholics being able to remarry in a church.
But I would not imagine you would get the same level of support for those things in somewhere like Ireland, for example. So what is your sense about the kind of reform, which a new Pope may look to successfully push through?
FITZGIBBONS: I would say there are really two areas. I'm no expert, but clearly there's a large segment of the church that wants to see the papal curia be reformed. That's one area of reform, reorganized, made a little bit more transparent, the banking made clearer. That's one area.
I'd say another area is more popular. I think there are some disenfranchised or very hurt Catholics in the world. I would say the victims of clerical sexual abuse. I would say women in the church. There are good faithful Catholics who have the feeling that they need to be heard and I think the Pope needs -- the next Pope really needs to welcome them and be a pastor to them.
MORGAN: And Lino, finally, for you, I know that you've -- you've worked with Cardinal Dolan. He would be a stunning choice for the people here in New York. They would go absolutely crackers if he becomes Pope. Do you think he really has a chance? You spoke to him I think yesterday. Does he believe he has a chance?
RULLI: I did speak to him yesterday. He refuses to talk on the record or off the record if he really believes he has a chance. Of course, he knows he does have a chance because he's one of 115 men going into that conclave, so he has a chance. But the fact of the matter is, he does really have a chance when you speak to the Italians here. Speaking to one of his security people yesterday, an Italian guy, and I said, what do you think about all of this. And he said that Cardinal Dolan is very simpatico which in Italian could be like he's very likeable, and he said he's so personable, he's got a lot of energy, he smiles.
And the fact of the matter is there are cardinals and there are certainly a lot of Catholics and non-Catholics, for that matter, who say, you know, Christianity is supposed to be joyful. Catholicism is supposed to be attractive. And how are you going to be more attractive and joyful than Cardinal Timothy Dolan?
MORGAN: But, also, I think the key word is energy. I don't want another Pope retiring because he's feeling a bit exhausted. Not a big fan of that kind of Pope, I'm afraid.
Thank you both very much indeed. The tension will mount, we will stay with this all week and, as I said at the start, for us Catholics, very, very exciting times.
MORGAN: Now I want to turn to the ban that's got freedom-loving Americans outraged. No, it's not guns. It's New York's ban on sodas and other sugary drinks bigger than 16 ounces. A judge blocked it today just hours before the ban was set to become law.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg has promised to fight back but what about the woman who's running to be the next mayor of New York?
Joining me now exclusively is New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn.
Welcome to you.
QUINN: Thank you very much.
MORGAN: I can't think of a better guest, A, because this is the first night of our newly named show, PIERS MORGAN LIVE.
QUINN: Very exciting.
MORGAN: We're going to be live all the time, all singing, all dancing. You're a perfect live guest. Let's talk soda. We thought we'd give you a little treat here.
QUINN: Yes, thank you very much.
MORGAN: This is like 32 ounce.
MORGAN: Humdinger of diet Coca-Cola.
MORGAN: Which is appropriate because Coca-Cola have donated money to your campaign.
QUINN: Well, yes. Small donation in total from Coca-Cola execs of $10,000 out of about the -- $6 million or $7 million we raised so far. MORGAN: Is that clouding your judgment on soda-gate?
QUINN: I didn't know until this moment it had become soda-gate.
MORGAN: I just called it that. Everything becomes gate in the end.
QUINN: Well, no. You know, look, I first want to applaud Mayor Bloomberg for being probably the most aggressive mayor in the country around the issue of obesity. And obesity is an epidemic that has enormously significant health consequences and overall I think he's doing a really good job on that issue. That said, the soda ban isn't one of his proposals in this area that I support, because my fear is that with issues around food and obesity, if you say no, people have almost a reflex reaction to do it, to go get it.
MORGAN: But is that ever a reason not to make something illegal or unlawful? I mean, take for example the ban on smoking in a number of public places. The reality is it's actually stopped most people smoking in public places, which is good for their health and more importantly better for the health of those around them who don't want to smoke.
QUINN: Absolutely. And when I was -- before I was speaker I was actually health committee chair. And I was the lead sponsor on the bill and led the effort in the council to get the bill passed, the mayor's smoking ban passed, and there was clear evidence in the city at our earlier bans which we expanded that it did have the effect we wanted. My concern --
MORGAN: Well, you can't tell me, Christine Quinn, that these ridiculously large guzzling great tubs of Coke are good for your health. They're not.
QUINN: They're not good for you.
MORGAN: And if you drink loads of these every day, it's going to rot your teeth, you're going to get obese, you then going to become a drain on society. You're going to have health issues you wouldn't have if you didn't guzzle this stuff.
QUINN: But calm down, Piers. You get a little --
MORGAN: But I agree with -- I agree Mayor Bloomberg. And what's the point of being a mayor of a city like New York, he's been big on gun control.
MORGAN: Big on smoking -- he wants New Yorkers to be fitter and healthier. What is wrong with that? QUINN: Nothing. He's right about it. And I've supported --
MORGAN: Do you believe he's wrong about this?
QUINN: I do because my fear is, my belief is that with food-related issues, which are different, which are more complicated because unlike smoking which you can stop and continue existing, you have to interact with food at least three times a day. So sometimes the easy yes/no that we're all drawn to particularly as Catholics doesn't always work out in the end of the day with food related issues.
And sometimes I think the better answer on food issues is to expand access to quality food, to not just say no, but to make sure people have a choice to get something. So for example --
MORGAN: I disagree with you. I think people need them occasionally, particularly on issues like smoking, drinking, guzzling sodas too big for them, you know, eating 16 Big Macs a day, whatever it may be, the reality is we all need a bit of nannying about that. That's why so many people are on diets. That's a form of nanny state.
QUINN: You know, I -- in a way I hope I'm wrong. I hope the mayor's right and this is effective but I really am concerned that the kind of negative, no, no, no, of this as an obesity issue which I think can be different than some of the other bans like smoking, I'm afraid it's not going to be effective. But at some point when it goes into effect, we'll have that data and we'll see who's right or wrong and on this one, I'm happy to be wrong and I hope the mayor is right.
MORGAN: OK. Fighting words. We have a great tweet here from Sarah Palin. "Victory in New York for liberty loving soda drinkers. The politicians have too much time on their hands. We say, government, stay out of my refrigerator."
The mind only boggles what's in her refrigerator. But anyway, Judge Milton Tingling, a great name for a judge, called the soda ban arbitrary and capricious. And he said the law would not only violate the separation of powers doctrine, it would eviscerate it. Such an evisceration has the potential to be more troubling than sugar sweetened beverages.
This is what Mayor Bloomberg says tonight on "Letterman" in response to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTER, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": You know, the soda ban has been overruled by state court? Is that what happened?
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: State court judge said the Department of Health didn't have the authority to do it. We think that they do. We'll appeal. In the meantime, this year, 70,000 Americans will die from obesity, 5,000 here in New York. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: So he's going to fight fire with fire. Seems pretty confident of his case.
QUINN: Absolutely. And I suspect that -- I know the mayor and his corporation council will appeal. This is the first level of the court so this is going to play out and we'll see. The question the judge is really opining on is, did the Board of Health have the legal authority to do this, which is a different question than whether it's right policy. And I suspect the mayor will be very aggressive in legislating this as he should be, because it's something he believes in. One of the great things about --
MORGAN: If you become mayor.
MORGAN: Are you giving me 100 percent guarantee you will not meddle in things that people eat or drink?
QUINN: No. I can't make you that 100 percent guarantee. No. And even I've said, if the data around the mayor's soda ban proves he's right and I'm wrong, then that's an altogether different situation and I may change my position. Once we have data to show.
MORGAN: OK. Let's take a break, let's come back and talk about your chances of becoming mayor.
QUINN: Thank you.
MORGAN: We got some interesting endorsements to play you. We have some great legends in New York mayor-dome, in fact. I think you'll like it.
QUINN: I hope so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINN: My mother's life and death left me with the belief that our obligation is to use every moment we have on this earth to make it a better place. To make other people's lives better. To make sure nobody is left behind because they might need a little more help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: New York City mayoral hopeful Christine Quinn in a campaign video talking movingly about her late mother.
I talked to you before about your mother. You were 16, I think, when she died.
QUINN: Yes. MORGAN: A really vulnerable age, I think, for any young woman to lose her mother. How would you feel about the fact that there's a little girl as you were still then about to potentially smash two great ceilings down. You know, you would be the first woman to ever be mayor of New York. You'd also be the first openly gay mayor of New York. An extraordinary double whammy, if it happens.
QUINN: I think she would be thrilled by all of this. I mean, she -- my mom had started -- was raised in the city and then would -- she's been a Catholic charities social worker. She loved New York. She loved in when she left Rockaway where she used to spend the summertime so to see her daughter here in the thick of her city engaged with groups like Catholic charities helping people engaged in making the city a better place, she would love it. She would just love it.
MORGAN: Do you have a view on the Pope, by the way?
QUINN: You know, you have to be for your hometown guy. I'm all in for Cardinal Dolan.
MORGAN: It would shake things up a bit. I would love to see Cardinal Dolan on a Sunday at the Vatican preaching to the world. It'd be fantastic.
MORGAN: Let us move on to you. I want to play you a clip from an interview I did with Ed Koch just before he died actually. It turned out to be his last interview. And I thoroughly enjoyed meeting him.
QUINN: He was a great --
MORGAN: A real New York legend.
QUINN: Yes, totally.
MORGAN: This is what he said about you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Who would be the next mayor of New York?
ED KOCH. FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Well, I am for Christine Quinn, but it's a wide open race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Well, that's an endorsement.
MORGAN: From the great man. How did you feel about that? QUINN: It was great. It was great. You know, Ed Koch endorsed me a couple of years ago. When the reporter said to him, why so early, he said I'm 87, I should give her an IOU? And it's a great, great Ed Koch line.
MORGAN: He had a catch phrase famously. Have you thought about what yours might be?
QUINN: Well, we -- when we launched the campaign -- actually we kicked it off with a walk and talk tour.
Walk and Tour with Chris so --
MORGAN: Say that again?
QUINN: A walk and talk.
MORGAN: See, you have the perfect voice to be mayor of New York City. Walk and talk.
QUINN: It's a lot of W's in that.
MORGAN: It's not -- I'm trying to explain to people how New Yorkers talk. It's like you.
QUINN: Yes. Walk and talk and a little coffee, pet a dog, you're good to go.
MORGAN: What would be your -- I mean, at the moment you're the runaway favorite to get the Democratic nomination to be mayor. What would be the priority for you if you took over? Give me top three things you would really want to get stuck into.
QUINN: Keep the city safe. Keep crime down. Same thing. Expand affordable housing, particularly for working class and middle class New Yorkers. Improve our schools, particularly our middle grades. That's the part of our system I'm in some ways most worried about, if I had to pick a top. And you said three but I'm a politician so I'm going to take liberty here.
MORGAN: That's cool.
QUINN: Job creation. We need to diversify our economy so we're not so reliant on Wall Street and build more opportunities for people trying to get into the middle class.
MORGAN: I have a panel of extremely successful women coming up after you. We're going to be talking about this Sheryl Sandberg thing.
MORGAN: The need to lean in more.
MORGAN: You're a good example I would imagine of leaning in. But I think the question we all feel about Sheryl Sandberg is -- though I haven't heard her answer yet, is how many women has she brought with her. Yes, there are only I think 21 of the -- of the Fortune 500 companies are run by women which seems still ridiculously low in the modern age.
If you became mayor, would you be very proactive in promoting women? Do you believe in doing that, or is it purely on merit?
QUINN: You know, I think you want to help folks move up, right, and the only way I got this job, my first job in New York City as tenant housing organizer, I called people. I called people, I called people, I asked them to have coffee with me, asked them to give me referrals, advice.
You've got to help people, younger people, move up. You've got to help all people move up. But particularly I think it's important to help people who are parts of communities that haven't had a seat at the table before, women, disabled people, LGBT, people of color, get seats at the table.
Not at the expense of others, but to diversify the table, because bringing more diversity creates more voices, it's more creative, it's a good thing for the city, state and country.
MORGAN: What is your advice to women who may be leaning back too much? What is the secret to getting to where you've got to?
QUINN: Push ahead. Don't worry -- don't think about what you don't know. Focus on what you know. There isn't any hurdle out there you can't get over but don't get lost in focusing on the size of the hurdle. Think about the speed and angle you have to run at to get over the hurdle. We all think, just as human beings, we're not smart enough, we're not ready enough. Forget it.
The worst voice you'll ever hear, most negative, is the one in your own head. Turn it off and replace it with I'm ready, I'm smart enough, I'm good enough, I can do it. You embrace that and push everything else out of your mind, you'll be successful.
MORGAN: Christine Quinn, I feel inspired just being close to you.
Nice to see you.
QUINN: Good to see you.
MORGAN: Come back soon.
QUINN: And congrats on the new name.
MORGAN: PIERS MORGAN LIVE with Christine Quinn. Doesn't get better than that. Come back soon.
QUINN: That's my world. Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming up next, what women really want. Four successful females, including Kathy Ireland, a billionairess, tell me what it takes to have it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERYL SANDBERG, FACEBOOK: They start leaning back. They say oh, I'm busy, I want to have a child one day, I couldn't possibly take on any more or I'm still learning on my current job. I have never had a man say that stuff to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're suggesting women aren't ambitious.
SANDBERG: I'm not suggesting women aren't ambitious. Plenty of women are as ambitious as men. But I am saying and I want to say it unequivocally and unapologetically that the data is clear that when it comes to ambition to lead, to be the leader of whatever you're doing, men, boys outnumber girls and women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Sheryl Sandberg, chief operating officer of Facebook, in an interview on CBS' "60 Minutes." Sandberg had two words of advice for women who want to make it to the top. "Lean In." That's the title of her new book, which has touched off pretty heated debate around the country.
And who better to talk about this than four accomplished women. Joining me tonight, Leah Gallagher, assistant managing editor of "Fortune," this is the publication that put Sandberg on the cover this week, Suzy Welch, author of "10-10-10", Kathy Ireland, CEO of Kathy Ireland Worldwide, great title there. And Florida Congresswoman Debbie Wassermann Schultz, chair of the DNC.
Welcome to you all.
Kathy, let me start with you because you're the richest. And we've talked about your massive fortune before. You are basically a billionairess and it all came from a $50,000 investment in socks, which is why I love your story.
Is she right, Sheryl Sandberg? Is she right that too many women lean back rather than lean in when it comes to promoting themselves and being ambitious?
KATHY IRELAND, CEO, CHIEF DESIGNER, KATHY IRELAND WORLDWIDE: Well, hello, Piers. Thank you for inviting me back. I don't think any of the women here on the show tonight lean back. Sheryl has written a book that is very specific. There are some words of wisdom there but if you do not have a higher education, if you do not work in the corporate world and working for someone else what is you want to do, you might feel a bit left out by this book.
Miss Sandberg tells us to lean in. I say buy the table. That's what I did. I bought the table and today I design and sell it. And what about the women who -- forget about the conference table. But what about the women who can't even get into that conference room, that woman who feels alienated whether she's a single mom struggling to put food on the table. I think there is such a need for entrepreneurialism.
Piers, when you and I were kids, when young people were getting out of school, they needed to find a job. Today, young people need to invent one. And what I tell women is do not let your circumstances define you. Don't let others' opinion of you destroy or stop you. Don't let anyone put you in a box.
I'm too odd-shaped, Piers. I don't fit in anyone's box and I don't intend to get in one until I'm six feet under.
MORGAN: Let me go to Suzy Welch next, because you're married to the great Jack Welch. He had a brilliant policy of firing the 10 percent worst performers in his country every year. Pretty ruthless, Neutron Jack. Should more women take a leaf out of Jack's book? Should they be more ruthless in the workplace, not only for themselves, but in the way they conduct themselves as business leaders?
SUZY WELCH, "10-10-10: A LIFE TRANSFORMING IDEA": I think that women will do well for themselves in the workplace if they focus on performance. So leaving aside the bottom 10 percent -- I think when I was coming up, I thought look, maybe the system is rigged against me, maybe it's rigged against women. I was coming up at a different time.
And I thought the only way around this really is just to be damn good, just to outperform and to make myself indispensable. To this day, I have four children, I have two boys and two girls. They're all of the age where they're starting to get jobs. I give them the same advice. I say if you want to get ahead and if you want to be successful, just be great at your job. Find the job that's right for you and over perform.
I don't think it's about ruthlessness. I think it's about finding what you're good at, then just giving it your all. What Sheryl says, lean in. Don't be afraid about choices and consequences. You are going to make your choices and there's going to be consequences. But go for it. You can't have it all at the same time, know that, and still forge ahead.
MORGAN: OK. Debbie Wassermann Schultz, you're one of the top political women in the country. There has still not been a female president. Top of your profession has never been a woman. If you look at the Fortune 500, only 21 of the CEOs of the 500 biggest companies in the country are women.
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D), FLORIDA: That's right. We've come a long way. Only 17 percent of Congress, in spite of the fact that we have a record number of women, are serving in Congress today. Out of all the years in American history, there have only been 296 women that have served in Congress and more than 12,000 men.
So we've made progress, but we've got a long way to go. One of the things that's critical -- I can appreciate what Kathy is saying. But I think it's the responsibility that too often women have not taken on for ourselves, for us to not just get to the plateau when we reached it and be thrilled for ourselves, even internally when we keep it to ourselves, but to reach behind us and pull another woman up on that platform with us.
MORGAN: Lee Gallagher, I speak from a position of great strength on this debate because 90 percent of the PIERS MORGAN LIVE staff are women. Literally 90 percent. And very, very capable people they are, too. In my experience, pretty good negotiators.
But here's the thing, take someone like my wife, who's a writer. She's a great writer, much better than me, but a terrible negotiator. She'll admit that she just hates negotiating. Hates the whole process, worries about saying no to things, would never dream of asking for a pay rise or anything like that. The reason that's significant is you read a little part of "Lean In," even Sheryl Sandberg when show was approached by Mark Zuckerberg for Facebook, she wanted to accept the first offer he made. She said, "I was ready to accept the job, I was dying to accept it. My husband Dave kept telling me negotiate. But I was terrified of doing anything that might botch the deal. I could play hard ball, but maybe Mark wouldn't want to work with me. Was it worth it knowing ultimately I was going to accept the offer?"
Then her exasperated brother-in-law Mark blurts out, "damn it, Sheryl, why are you going to make less than any man would make for the same job." So even Sheryl Sandberg had to be basically ordered by the men around her to be a better negotiator. In your experience, is this a familiar problem? Are women basically a bit nicer than men in the workplace and does that consequentially hold them back?
LEIGH GALLAGHER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, "FORTUNE": Yes, and yes. Suzy makes a great point. You have to be good. You have to be good. But what Sheryl is saying is this is about more than being good. This is being good and still doing things you don't realize that are holding you back. Not raising your hand, not sitting at the table if there's a big conference table, instead sitting on the side table, not negotiating. That's a classic -- you hate to stereotype, but this is true and the data shows it.
That book has a ton of data in it. The footnotes are like 40 pages.
MORGAN: Every woman should read this book, by the way. It's a terrific book.
GALLAGHER: But it's really true. I suffer from that. Negotiating is really hard. Women -- as girls, we are taught to be nice. You don't want to offend anybody. And negotiating is asking for more. You don't want to, you know, rub anybody the wrong way. But that's -- any man knows that's what you do. It does end up being kind of black and white like that.
MORGAN: Let's take a break. Let's come back and talk about what Marissa Mayer said about working from home. That's a big, big issue for women. And also about babies, because let's be honest, people like me don't have to worry too much about this, but women have to think about little else when they're working than what they do about wanting to have kids. I think we should discuss that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDBERG: Everyone knows marriage is the biggest personal decision you make. But it's the biggest career decision you make if you're going to have a life partner, who that partner's going to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That just puts more pressure on women.
SANDBERG: Puts more pressure on women to, if they marry or partner with someone, to partner with the right person, because you cannot have a full career and a full life at home with your children if you are also doing all of the house work and child care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Sheryl Sandberg in that "60 Minutes" interview talking about having it all. Back now with four women who know it all about having it all, Lee Gallagher, Suzy Welch, Kathy Ireland and Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Welcome back to you all.
We just got our first Tweet to PIERS MORGAN LIVE, as our show now is called. It says -- from DBNJuny (ph). It says, "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT felt like a sit-down over a pint. But later, PIERS MORGAN LIVE is bottoms up now, whether you're in the mood or not." I couldn't think of a better way of describing it.
Inappropriate remark I was about to make, but I'm not going to do it because it's live. To Sheryl's eight success tips women need to read. I'm just going to rattle through these. It's very interesting.
One, don't let fear hold you back. Don't underestimate yourself. Realize that choosing a life partner is a career decision. Don't sacrifice being successful for being liked. You don't have to be 100 percent ready to take on a promotion or new role. Don't scale back ambition because you want to be a mom. Don't drive yourself crazy with perfection guilt. If you rise to the top, you will help other women.
Let me turn to you, Kathy, because one of the things she says which alarmed was that a husband who does more work around the house will get more sex. That can't be true. IRELAND: You know, I appreciate what Sheryl had to say, the importance of finding the right man. And I'm so grateful that I did. However, when it comes to child care responsibilities, household chores, those decisions need to be left to the parents, not to a business executive who has written a book.
And I do believe that sadly, Piers, in our country, in our culture, I believe that the career of mom doesn't receive the proper respect. And I think it's because a paycheck is not attached. But there is nothing more important, more difficult than raising children.
MORGAN: Suzy Welch, Marissa Mayer lit this firestorm by saying look, Yahoo!, I'm fed up with all my staff working from home, you're all coming in now. A lot of women in particular said, well, it's all right for you. You've got a nice crech next to your office. But what about the rest of us who have children, and are trying to juggle the two things.
What do you think? Are we heading to an era when more women will want to work with creches at work? Or is Marissa Mayer going to be in the minority when most women want to have flexi time and maybe work a bit from home?
WELCH: Marissa Mayer is in a very unique situation. She's in a turn- around situation where she has to get everybody in the room to fix the culture and the performance of her company. And to do that when some people are not in the office is just very difficult.
The irony of the Marissa Mayer situation is that if she had been a man, if say a male executive had come out and said everybody into the office, he probably would have been fired by his board. In fact, the only person who could get away with saying what she bravely said, which is I cannot turn around this company with half my staff not being here, was a working mom. Because they couldn't accuse her of being insensitive to working moms, because she's a working mom.
I think what she did was the right thing. But she does face into this very difficult issue around trying to juggle those 15 years when you're very, very productive at work are those same 15 years that you're giving birth to your babies and the babies are coming up, when they're looking at you saying, why aren't you at the Halloween celebration at school.
Those 15 years come at the same time for women. That is the third rail in American women talking about work/life balance. It's not a lot of men making noise about Sheryl's book. It's women.
MORGAN: That's true.
WELCH: Again, because of this sense of people being defensive. Look, mothering in America is a competitive sport. There is a lot of disagreement about mothers who have made the choice to go to work with their kids and the mothers who decided to stay home, about -- defensiveness about my decision being right, and the battlefield who is raising the better kids. MORGAN: Debbie, apparently you don't have creches here. What is it a pancake -- you have nurseries here. OK, crech is a nursery where I come from. What is it here, pancake? What is a crech? Does it exist? Let's move on from crech.
MORGAN: It's a crib, is it? That's completely inappropriate. Debbie, you actually told me you had a little nursery built at your office when you were running. Tell me about that.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I did. When my youngest daughter Shelby was born, I was in the state senate and had just announced I was running for Congress, and knew that I needed to continue to go up to Tallahassee to vote for my district, and also wanted to nurse her. So I pushed, while I was pregnant, for the Senate president at the time to allow me to build off a little part of my office that would allow me to put the crech, the pack 'n play in my office, and have a door I could shut so that I could nurse her and still be there for her and run back and forth.
MORGAN: See, when I ran a newspaper in Britain, I had 11 very talented feature writers, one after another, all women, all promised to come back after having their first baby. None of them ever did. Eventually I went to my female boss and went, look, can't we just get a nursery built at the office in a side room, staffed by five nannies for, I don't know, 500 dollars a day? Isn't that good business? Wouldn't that help?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Even when that's not possible -- I remember my chief of staff was pregnant with her baby, and I encouraged her, look, we work ridiculous hours in Congress, bring your daughter to work, we'll use the pack 'n play. You can keep her in my office. Do whatever you need to do. It's important that we stick by each other and make it work.
MORGAN: I agree. Women bosses tend to be tougher on women than male bosses. Lee, you have had your eggs frozen, which many would see to be a sort of career move, if you like, a career decision.
GALLAGHER: I have. Yes, in my case it wasn't exactly a career decision. It was more, you know, this is the one thing -- when we talk about leveling the playing field, this is the one thing that will never go away between men and women. I editor our 40 Under 40 List, which is the rising stars in business under 40. And every year, it's much harder to find women whose accomplishments match that of the men, where that's not true for women in their 40s and older.
That's because women have to take this step off. So in my case, it was not because I had so much work left to do. It was more that I was getting older and I hadn't found a partner yet. So I wanted to leave that option open for me because you can. This technology exists, so I thought why not take advantage of it. I think it's a great women that more women should think about.
MORGAN: I think that's right. I think Sheryl Sandberg's point also, that the choice of life partner is a crucial business decision. It really is. Ladies, it's been fascinating. You are all testament to how successful women can basically have it all, let's be honest.
So thank you all for joining me. I do appreciate it.
IRELAND: Thank you.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming up, is America addicted to guns? I'll talk to the undercover journalist behind an eye-opening pretty shocking investigation.
MORGAN: I've talked a lot about gun violence on this show in recent months. It's a problem that's getting worldwide attention and prompted a report on the BBC panorama show called "America's Gun Addiction." Their investigation shows how shockingly easy it is to buy an assault weapon, no questions asked.
And joining me now is BBC correspondent Hillary Andersson who went undercover to buy an AR-15. Hillary, thank you for joining. I watched the Panorama report you did tonight with -- it wasn't really shock, actually, because I have known for a while that 40 percent of all gun trades in America are done without any form of background checks.
But to see the ease with which you went to a gun show and bought a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle, the exact same weapon that Adam Lanza used at Sandy Hook, was pretty disturbing. Let's take a look at a clip from your investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY ANDERSSON, BBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This private seller had an AR-15 for sale, the type of weapon Adam Lanza used.
(on camera): This is a Bushmaster?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
ANDERSSON (voice-over): He just wanted cash. No test, no questions asked.
(on camera): So, this is the gun I bought. It's an AR-15 semiautomatic weapon. I didn't have to fill out any paperwork at all to buy it. I don't have to license it now that I own it. That's how easy it is to buy and own a gun in Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Were you surprised, Hillary, at the ease with which you bought that rifle?
ANDERSSON: Well, like you, I knew what the law was. I know about the gun show loophole. I know that you can go in and do this. But when you're actually in a gun show, you know, and you find that you want to buy an AR-15 and that all you have to do is literally hand over the cash -- the guy didn't even ask for my driver's license. I showed it to him, but he wasn't interested.
I asked for a receipt. He wasn't interested. Yeah, it's pretty amazing just how easy it is. Because if I can buy a gun, you know, then anybody can, like I said.
MORGAN: Are you an American citizen or resident?
ANDERSSON: I am an American citizen and resident.
MORGAN: But it wouldn't have made any difference, presumably. You could have been a British citizen and still done the same thing?
ANDERSSON: Well, legally, you're supposed to be an American citizen. Legally, you're not supposed to be mentally ill. Legally, you're not supposed to be a criminal. But the fact is that in a gun show, if you're buying from a private dealer, which is very different than if you're buying from a licensed dealer -- if you're buying from a private dealer, nobody asks any questions.
So you can really do whatever you want. And there's no follow-up in Texas, because you don't have to license the gun or register it after you buy it. You can just, you know, go put it in your car and drive home with it, and do what you want with it.
Now, if you buy from a licensed dealer at a gun show or anywhere else, it's a completely different story. That's when you have to pass this instant background check. But we did a lot of work looking into the detail of what this background check entails for the documentary that I made, and found out that -- we're focusing very much on the issue of mentally ill people in America and whether or not they can buy guns.
So, yes, they can easily buy them through private dealers, because there are no checks at all. But can they pass the instant background check? Well, that's where it gets really interesting, because the one question on the instant background check form about mental illness basically says this -- it says, "if you've been adjudicated by a court of law or a commission or a board as mentally defective," they call it, "or if you've been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution of some kind, you cannot legally pass that background check and buy a gun."
But that leaves a glaring hole, because if you've been mentally ill for decades or spent decades in a -- you know, voluntarily putting yourself in a psychiatric unit, there's nothing to stop you from passing that background check. So either which way, it's easy to get a gun if you're mentally ill or not.
MORGAN: The bottom line is, you could have been Hannibal Lecter for all they knew. They didn't care. And that's the reason this gun show loophole is so potentially dangerous. Because if you are criminally minded or mentally insane and intent on causing some devastating atrocity, of course that's how you're going to try and secure your weapons. Because it's the easiest way of doing it.
Let me ask you, did you keep the AR-15? What did you do with it?
ANDERSSON: No, of course not. We needed to off-load it as quickly as we could. We're, you know, filmmakers, documentary makers, journalists. We wanted to make a point. And we sold it back to a licensed dealer and got receipts and the correct paperwork, and made sure we sold it to reputable people. But it's interesting, the figure of how many -- what percentage of American guns are sold this way.
You mentioned that it was around 40 percent. Now, that's a very disputed figure and nobody really knows how many of America's guns are sold through this loophole with no paperwork, because there is no paperwork, so they can't know. The 40 percent figure comes from the 1990s. You know, I'm going with a figure of somewhere between 14 and 40 percent, as a safe figure. But, really, to be honest, nobody knows. It's just a lot of guns.
MORGAN: Well, it was a fascinating report. We've talked about this loop hole ad nauseam in the last three months, but to see you actually go to a Texas gun show and secure this weapon, the one that, as I say, slaughtered those children at Sandy Hook, was pretty devastating television.
Hillary, thank you for joining me.
ANDERSSON: Thank you.
MORGAN: And we'll be right back.
MORGAN: Tomorrow night, an extraordinary story of courage. TV legend Valerie Harper shocked the world with her announcement that she has incurable brain cancer. But she said she's feeling good and living every moment as best she can. I'll talk to her tomorrow night on PIERS MORGAN LIVE, a cable news exclusive.
That's all for us tonight. "ANDERSON COOPER" starts right now.