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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Jaw-Dropping Video of Jodi Arias

Aired March 15, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, video of Jodi Arias like you have never seen her before. It`s a jaw-dropper. This breaking news is extraordinary. You will not believe what happened inside the interrogation room after the detective stepped away. You`ve got to see it to believe it. Next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, OMG. Just when you thought you`d seen all the shockers in the Jodi Arias murder trial, are you sitting down? Because Jodi is standing up. On her head. That`s right. Astounding new video of Jodi Arias standing on her head in the police interrogation room on the very day she was arrested for killing former lover Travis Alexander in cold blood.

And are you kidding me? Is she really upset with herself for not putting on make-up just minutes before being arrested on murder charges?

We`ll also tell you about the song she burst into with lyrics that will give you chills. We`ll debate it all with our legal panel. And boy, do we need a psychologist tonight.

JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: The fog starts to come in after the gunshot, after I got up and he threatened my life.

I don`t remember.

JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER CASE: Did you ever seek medical help for your mental condition?

KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Would it be fair to say that he had an all-access pass to your body?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing missing here is the rabbit in the pot.

ARIAS: I made a lot of bad decisions when it came to Travis.

If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.

I did things that provoked him.

NURMI: He had sex behind closed doors, and he beat you behind closed doors.

STEPHENS: "Did he force you to do things you didn`t want to do?"

ARIAS: He didn`t physically force me.

NURMI: You actually called him hottie biscotti, correct?

ARIAS: Yes.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: That`s when you shot him in the face, right?

ARIAS: Yes. That`s when the gun went off.

MARTINEZ: It`s impossible for the killing to have happened in that manner.

ARIAS: I don`t think I could stab him. I think I would have to shoot him until he was dead.

MARTINEZ: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear to ear?

ARIAS: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. She has something to sob about right now.

Tonight, there are almost no words. The most unbelievable video of accused murderess Jodi Arias you`ve ever seen. Breaking news: we`ve seen her sitting, crying, sobbing. We`ve seen pictures of her most private areas, but now we have truly seen it all. Never-before-seen video of Jodi standing on her head inside the police interrogation room. But why didn`t the jurors see this footage?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.

The 32-year-old aspiring photographer on trial for allegedly stabbing Travis Alexander 29 times. Slashing his throat ear to ear, shooting him in the head. Jodi claims it was all in self-defense but take a look. Are you sitting down? Because she`s standing up.

Take a look at this never-before-seen video. It`s July 15, 2008. Jodi is about to be arrested for murder in the death of her ex-boyfriend. The detective leaves the room. And what does she do? She walks over to the wall, and she does a headstand. And holds it. Take a look. She`s holding it; holding it and holding it and holding it.

Now, as if that wasn`t enough, as an encore, the same videotape catches Jodi singing and scolding herself for forgetting to wear make-up as she`s about to be arrested for murder. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(on camera): Should have at least done your make-up, Jodi. Gosh. (LAUGHS) Goodness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Even with this shocking video hidden from the jury, does Jodi stand a chance of proving she only killed Travis in self- defense?

A new defense expert witness pulling out all the stops to sell the jury on Jodi`s claims of going into a fog.

Straight out to our expert legal panel as we debate the headstand. All right. We`ve got two for the prosecution, two for the defense.

Stacey Honowitz, starting for the prosecution, why didn`t the jury see this headstand? Should the jury have seen this crazy behavior?

STACEY HONOWITZ, PROSECUTOR: Well, it reminds me of Amanda Knox. If you recall, Jane, she was doing cartwheels in Italy when she was taken in there.

And I just think that it is probably wasn`t relevant. They argued that there`s no relevance in showing her doing gymnastics while she`s, you know, waiting for the officer, for the detective to talk to her. Quite frankly, I don`t know what it would have done for the jury, if the jury`s going to say, "Well, we think she`s crazy because she`s doing a headstand." I just think it really wasn`t proper and unnecessary to show it to the jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean, come on. I think it`s relevant. It shows her state of mind. It shows the fact that she may not taking this seriously. It shows the fact that...

HONOWITZ: We saw that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It shows the fact that she may be nuts. Maybe the reason, Brian Silber for the defense, that the prosecution didn`t show this, is that, my gosh, I think it sets her up for an insanity defense.

BRIAN Silber, ATTORNEY: Well, it`s clearly more prejudicial than it is probative. Meaning it just makes her look bad. It doesn`t talk about the issues in our case.

And here`s the thing. When you watch these videos, you`re only getting maybe a 10- or 15-second snippet. You`re not watching the hours that those people sit in these chairs.

And what she was doing, I can tell you right now. It was a yoga pose. She was leaning against the wall on her hands. Anybody who knows yoga knows about this. And when someone sits in these rooms alone by themselves for hours...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Come on.

SILBER: ... they need a crutch. It`s something as silly as that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody knows that this is a yoga pose. OK? I mean, yoga is not new to America; it`s the 21st Century. The question is, she`s doing a yoga pose in a police interrogation room, and she`s about to be arrested for murder. Have I lost my mind or have all of you lost your mind? Joey Jackson.

JOEY JACKSON, ATTORNEY: No. I think she has lost her mind. And I think if I`m the prosecutor, I don`t even want this. You know why? Because there`s so much other compelling evidence. So if the defense is going to argue, "It`s not relevant, it`s not probative, and I`m going on appeal based on this," great, I don`t want you to appeal. I want my...

(CROSSTALK)

SILBER: I agree. Joey`s got it right on the head.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. Janet Johnson, show us some sanity here. Everybody, both sides. First of all I hate when you all agree. You know that. So come on.

HONOWITZ: Because that`s the reality of court.

SILBER: Listen.

JANET JOHNSON, ATTORNEY: I disagree will.

SILBER: I keep saying this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait. She disagrees. She disagrees. Go for it, Janet.

JOHNSON: As a defense attorney, I want this in. Because you know what? She probably knows there`s a camera in there. Most of my defendants know that they`re being videotaped. And if she is behaving that erratically, I think that the doctor would have a field day with this and would say, "Look, this person does not have a full deck. And in fact, she`s having this dissociative moment where she thinks it`s appropriate to stand on her head?" That`s great for the defense.

HONOWITZ: People do everything. People do everything when they`re alone in a room. If she`s singing, it doesn`t prove any material fact in this case. That`s the problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know about that. I think that Janet Johnson hit the nail on the head. I think, if the prosecution didn`t introduce it, then the defense should introduce it.

It`s the same thing with the sex tapes. You know, it`s like "Rashomon." You read into it whatever you want to read into it.

But let`s bring in the shrink, because we need one today for you guys, as well as to analyze this tape. Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, what does this tell about Jodi Arias`s state of mind?

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It tells me what I`ve been saying on your program the past few months. That this is a young woman who is not insane by the legal definition, but is severely emotionally disturbed. She has a histrionic personality disorder, uses her sexuality in order to manifest a lot of her aggression.

And what I saw was a perfect example of a dissociative state, someone who`s being totally inappropriate and regressing while they`re facing something that is incredibly traumatic. About to be arrested, knowing that they are going to jail for a long, long time and possibly facing a death sentence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re giving me the idea that maybe the defense should have used this. Because they brought on this pop psychologist...

GARDERE: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... Dr. Richard Samuels, who said that -- he`s using phrases like "transient global amnesia." Which I wonder honestly, that sounds to me like, you know, a transient who doesn`t know what city they`re in. What is transient global amnesia?

And this doctor went on to explain for the defense that Jodi went into a fog state of mind while brutally killing Travis.

So let`s try to figure out what does he mean when he says "transient global amnesia"?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RICHARD SAMUELS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Here are the thing that can cause that. Sudden immersion in cold or hot water. Physical exertion. Emotional or psychological stress. Pain. Medical procedures. Sexual intercourse.

So you don`t have to be in a -- in a horrible situation but in everyday situations, and you`re still prone to having this transient global amnesia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Janet Johnson, since I think you`ve made the most sense on this panel so far.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Given that the defense has brought on an expert to argue that she suffered from transient global amnesia, and that that means she did go into a fog after killing Travis Alexander because, he says, she had posttraumatic stress disorder, PTSD, wouldn`t the defense want to introduce this video to show that this is part of her PTSD?

JOHNSON: That`s why I`m baffled by why they wouldn`t want this out. You know, right now the jury, unless they`re watching your show, aren`t going to see it.

But yes, I mean, I think that this is somebody who`s in and out of reality, in and out of -- you know, she`s singing a song when the police are about to arrest her and talking about make-up. That goes to, "I don`t know what I`m dealing with. That`s why I made up all these lies."

And I thought that the doctor did a great job explaining why her stories were so inconsistent. I mean, this would play right into that defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And on the other side of the break, we`re going to play the song by Dido that Jodi Arias was singing in the interrogation room right before she gets arrested, because the lyrics are creepy. I love Dido. I love the song, but her singing them in the context of what`s happening to her is creepy. OK?

We`re just getting started. Tons more to debate. We`re taking your calls. More of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For 18 days, Jodi Arias herself described, explained, and accounted for killing her ex-lover.

MARTINEZ: That`s when you shot him in the face, right?

ARIAS: Yes, that`s when the gun went off.

MARTINEZ: You keep saying the gun went off. The gun was in your hand, right?

ARIAS: Yes.

MARTINEZ: In your hands. Actually, the way you demonstrated it was with both hands, right?

ARIAS: Right.

MARTINEZ: And you were pointing it at him. Right?

ARIAS: Yes. I did point it at him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The prosecution at odds with her explanation for why she did what she says she had to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi isn`t just practicing yoga inside this interrogation room. But she is singing to herself, as well. And her song choice seem very, well, I have to say creepy, considering the context that they are talking to her and about to arrest her for the vicious killing of an innocent man. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what she is singing is the group Dido`s hit from "Here with Me." That`s from Arista Records. It dates back to about 1999. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIDO, SINGER (singing): I don`t want to move a thing. It might change my memory. Oh, I am what I am. I`ll do what I want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the song she sings, quote, "I don`t want to move a thing. It might change my memory." There is also a more chilling lyric, "I am what I am. I`ll do what I want, but I can`t hide."

You know, listen. This is shocking stuff. When we get nervous and we`re horrified by something, we have a tendency to maybe, you know, chuckle a little bit.

But let`s get back to what this is really all about. This is about the vicious, vicious killing. The stabbing and the slitting of the throat of a young man who had his life ahead of him. The young man who you see in the photos that we`re showing you. A young man who was slaughtered.

Stacey Honowitz, what does the singing of this song that says, "I am what I am, I`ll do what I want, but I can`t hide," say to you about her, given that she is about to be arrested for murder?

HONOWITZ: Well, listen, I`ve said all along, she`s the most manipulative, cunning individual you can talk about on the planet these days.

I think what is very important is determine whether or not everything she told this doctor was a lie and she was malingering. And that means she was lying the whole time. So I think all of this is part of her lying routine. I`m not reading into it any more than that.

Maybe she`s got a dissociative personality. But she`s a liar. And so what we hear the doctor talk about and when we hear her singing and doing all of these things, it`s all a part of the manipulation. Just like when she gets on "48 Hours" interview and totally made up a story.

So to take my opinion to say what do I think she`s doing? I just think she`s a flat-out manipulative liar. I don`t know really what it means.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s try to figure that out. Now, the defense brought a psychologist on the stand to argue that Jodi Arias suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder, and it`s very likely she did go into a fog.

This doctor, Dr. Richard Samuels, testified about how he interviewed Jodi 12 times over the course of three years and described how much Jodi changed from when he first met her in 2009 to now. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMUELS: I felt that she was a woman with a low self-esteem. I saw her as a relatively, pretty much of a pacifist. She was confused. I suspected that there was more to the story than she first revealed.

End of last year, I found her to be more confident. More in control of her feelings. More positive about her life. She was very depressed when I first met her, and she talked about suicide.

ARIAS: At the time I had plans to commit suicide. So I was extremely confident that no jury would convict me, because I didn`t expect any of you to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So this Dr. Samuels, again, he interviewed her 12 times over three years, and he told the court that Jodi lied to him in the beginning, repeating the ninja story, saying that these two masked intruders killed Travis. He confronted her, he says, and then eventually, she -- she confessed and told him, "Yes, I killed Travis, but it was in self-defense."

But here`s the question, Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist. He is evaluating her. If she`s a pathological liar and she`s lying to him again, how -- how valid is his evaluation? I mean, we all know from therapy -- I did therapy for years. If you go into your therapist`s office and you lie to them, they can`t help you .

GARDERE: I don`t know how accurate his testimony is or his evaluation. I can tell you -- and this goes back to Stacey. If someone is lying in the way this woman has been lying -- we know she`s been lying. But part and parcel, that`s what is a histrionic personality disorder.

I`m not saying that this woman is legally insane. I`m not saying she`s schizophrenic. That`s why she didn`t get a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. She`s not trying to do that.

But I think what`s coming out of this is all of this manipulative, lying behavior, inappropriate behavior, speaks to something that`s very simple. This woman is a severe personality disorder. Plain and simple. That`s it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, the reason she didn`t plead not guilty by reason of insanity is that the definition of insanity is not knowing right from wrong. And everything she did after killing Travis Alexander shows that she was covering up something that she knew was wrong.

She disposed of the gun. She went and canoodled with another guy to establish an alibi. She called Travis Alexander`s voicemail and left him a message inviting him to a Shakespeare play. That`s why she can`t plead not guilty by reason of insanity.

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: Did you have a knife in your hand when you shot him?

ARIAS: No. I didn`t.

MARTINEZ: So that means that, if you didn`t have the knife in your hand, you needed to go get it from somewhere, right?

ARIAS: I guess. I don`t know.

MARTINEZ: No, no, no. There`s no guessing here now. Now he just threatened your life. You turn your back on the threat?

ARIAS: Yes. I`m trying to get away.

MARTINEZ: You don`t have the knife, right?

ARIAS: Up to that point...

MARTINEZ: Yes or no. Do you have the knife at that point?

ARIAS: No. Right at that point where my memory begins to end, I didn`t have the knife at any point that I remember.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. She`s singing a hit song from Dido. But maybe she should be singing "Super Freak," because her behavior is super freaky in this police interrogation tank.

This video just surfacing, showing Jodi Arias on the day of her arrest in July of 2008. She`s not only doing headstands in the interrogation room, she is singing, giggling and talking to herself about, "Oh, I should have worn make-up."

Listen very carefully to this. Listen carefully so we can hear it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: Goodness. You should have at least done your make-up, Jodi, gosh. (LAUGHS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. This reminds me of another video we have of Jodi powdering her nose for a jailhouse interview. Apparently, she wanted to get ready for her close-up. There she is. When she was doing a big interview with a national media outlet. And she`s getting ready to look pretty.

And she also wanted to put on some make-up for the booking photo that was ultimately taken, which looks more like a Hollywood headshot than somebody being arrested for a very serious crime.

Listen, she`s been diagnosed with everything by now. Histrionic personality, narcissistic personality, sociopath, psychopath. I mean, she`s going down in the record books for diagnoses.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Pat, Texas, your question or thought. Pat, Texas.

CALLER: Hello.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

CALLER: That tape is just the same overconfident Jodi we all know. But I never believed Jodi`s self-defense story. But the real validation for me, Jane, was the cough. The cocky attitude with the prosecutor. It shows me she has never had an issue with low self-esteem and that she always runs the show.

In fact, I believe Jodi herself could make people shake like a Chihuahua. I think she`s a bully. And nobody tell her what to do. Not her parents, not Travis, not even her lawyers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Pat, Texas, you`ve raised an important point. Let`s debate it with the legal team here.

Joey Jackson, she has painted herself as a victim. And, you know, most people who commit horrific crimes think of themselves as victims. So that`s not unusual. I mean, the worst murderers I`ve ever covered, they all -- when you read about what they have to say, somebody abused them sometime in their past, and they feel somehow entitled and justified to go out and hurt somebody else because of that. It`s mixed-up thinking.

But is she coming off as a victim? Or is she coming off as a manipulative, calculating person who is very aware of what she`s doing and the impact it`s going to have?

JACKSON: I think you get it just right. And I think the caller gets it just right.

When you look at her, is this someone who was evident -- you know, who was evidently someone who was manipulated and abused? Or is she attempting to manipulate by being evasive and not answering questions?

And with regard to her memory and this whole psychological evaluation, why is it that she has selective memory loss? There are so many other stressful events that have occurred, and she remembers all of it. But when it comes to the critical issues, she remembers nothing? That goes to the entire manipulation. So what I say, Jane, is guilty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Johnson.

JOHNSON: I disagree. I mean, Dr. Samuels explained all of those things. The most traumatic part, just like police officers, the actual shooting is what she`s going on forget. That`s the part that`s blurry to her.

And quite frankly, the jury isn`t seeing what we just saw. They didn`t see that jail video; they didn`t see the giggling. They didn`t see the powdering. What they`re seeing is someone who was being bullied by the government. And they want to kill her, quite frankly.

JACKSON: Bullied by the government?

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz.

HONOWITZ: I mean, bullied by the government? Why? Because the prosecutor took an aggressive stance because she`s the biggest liar in the world?

I mean, if he did not take an aggressive stance with someone of her personality, the jury would have never got to see what they got to see, the real Jodi Arias.

JACKSON: And he almost broke her, Stacey.

HONOWITZ: As far as the doctor -- as far as the doctor, how does this doctor not do a malingering test to determine whether or not she`s lying based on all of her lies?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He did.

JACKSON: Of course he did. That`s part of every evaluation.

JOHNSON: And he said she passed.

(CROSSTALK)

HONOWITZ: Wait until cross-examination. When they talk about posttraumatic stressful -- and just like Joey said, the selective memory. None of it makes sense. Really, the story doesn`t make sense at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brian.

SILBER: Listen, every single forensic psychological evaluation includes an evaluation for malingering. The doctor himself or herself needs to be convinced of the veracity of what is being told to them.

And every forensic psychologist I have ever worked with comes back to me and says, "Listen, there`s nothing I can do to help your client" when they think they`re not telling the truth. And that is the biggest thing they look for before they go to the diagnosis. So yes, I believe this doctor did a malingering test.

HONOWITZ: That is not true.

JOHNSON: He said he did.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll tell you what I`d like to see.

HONOWITZ: Not every doctor does it, I`m telling you. Plenty -- listen, see, I wonder how he`s going to testify when he talks about her being in the jail and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I would like to see somebody give Jodi Arias a truth serum. Just something to think about. Not really, because I think it would open a Pandora`s box, and I don`t think it would be constitutional. But wouldn`t it be interesting?

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMUELS: A large percentage of individuals who are in such settings do not remember or have cloudy and foggy memories of what has transpired. The brain is not interested in remembering what`s going on. The brain is interested in survival.

And so all our energies are focused on self-protection. We don`t start thinking about, "What a beautiful color my attacker is wearing." We don`t think about that. We don`t think about "I wonder what song I would like to have played at my funeral." We don`t think about that. We simply -- we fight for our lives or we flee from the scene. That`s -- that`s all that happens whether you`re a rat, or an alligator or a human being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KURT NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Once you broke away from him, what do you remember?

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Almost nothing for a long time. There are some things that have come back over years. But nothing, I don`t know if those are things that I`m thinking of from before or if it is that day. It is confusing. There is like a huge gap.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: I`m asking you to tell me whether or not this fog that you`ve been telling us about increases your ability to remember even though you`re going into this fog.

ARIAS: I would not say that it increases. But I don`t know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the whole controversy over the fog has been replaced by a new controversy. Take a look at this. This is breaking news. New video just in of Jodi Arias just minutes before she is going to be arrest and is arrested for the murder in the death of Travis Alexander doing a head stand inside the police interrogation room.

As detectives leave -- but of course, they always keep the camera rolling to see what on earth the folks, the suspects will do and this is a humdinger. I mean really? I really don`t understand what Jodi Arias is thinking unless she is just mad as a hatter because this could not work in her favor. Maybe she`s not thinking at all.

Now between singing and the acrobatics, Jodi also giggles and at times, did something even stranger. She went digging through the trash in the room -- in the interrogation room. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(JODI ARIAS` ACTIVITIES IN THE INTERROGATION ROOM)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There you go. She picks up the trash can and she is looking through the trash can. What is she looking for? Is she -- oh, I have an idea. Is it possible that she is putting on an act, trying to look as crazy as possible as she desperately hunts for yet another explanation?

Remember, at this point she has already lied and that she was not there. The detectives counteracted that by saying well, guess what, your bloody palm print is at the scene mixed with Travis` blood. Then she said two ninjas did it. This is long before she admits that she killed Travis Alexander and claimed I did it in self-defense.

So Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, as you look at this, do you think she is maybe, oh, let me act crazy and see --who knows -- maybe I can spin this into an insanity defense.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, I don`t think so. I think her whole life has been about craziness and inappropriate behavior and I think this idea of global amnesia is a real stretch by the psychologist who examined her. But I don`t think what is a stretch is the fact that she is a psychopathic deviant which again expresses itself in a personality disorder.

She is not insane. She is probably going to be found guilty. Perhaps they`ll spare her because the psychologist is looking for all of these other things to layer on the psychopathic deviant.

By the way, the reason he may not have had a validity scale is because he doesn`t want to ruin --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Jeff Gardere, I love you but nobody has an idea what a validity scale is.

GARDERE: A validity scale simply tells us whether the person is malingering. Whether they are trying to look --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lying.

GARDERE: -- better than they are or whether they`re trying to look worse. It is part of the manipulation. It is part of that personality disorder. It means they`re being untruthful -- her own words.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love debating with you Dr. Jeff; it`s a lot of fun. Monday night, HLN we`re doing something special at 10:00 p.m.; from now through the verdict, HLN will gather every night to talk about what is going on in court.

We call it "HLN AFTER DARK". I`m going to join Nancy Grace, Dr. Drew, Ryan Smith, Vinnie Politan, our entire crew looking at this case in front of a live studio audience that acts as the jury, rendering their verdict for the day. It`s an exciting show when court wraps for the day. The conversation just started. Watch "HLN AFTER DARK" Monday 10:00 p.m. Eastern only here on HLN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD SAMUELS, DEFENSE PSYCHOLOGIST: Miss Arias was a perpetrator of a horrendous crime. It is not out of step with my diagnosis with her having PTSD.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s admitted that she is the one who killed Travis.

SAMUELS: She admitted it.

WILLMOTT: We`re not talking about the reasons why, ok, at this point but based on that fact alone, it is still very possible that she can suffer from PTSD because she is the one who did the killing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a defense psychologist you just heard from. And he is on the stand currently and he is essentially saying, he thinks Jodi did go into a fog and that she suffered from PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. Then he goes on to say often criminals, killers, murderers, they get PTSD.

How on earth is he helping the defense when he says, well, yes, she could have been the murderer. She could have actually murdered him and also gone into a fog and suffered PTSD.

Let`s start with Joey Jackson.

JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the first thing is that he might be explaining her memory lapses but he is not explaining the justification for the crime. This is about self-defense and how does a memory lapse explain how it was that you were justified in taking a life?

Furthermore, I`m very concerned about him boxing her and putting her in a category in general. People have stressful memories and as a result of that, they don`t know what occurred. Well, everyone is different. You might for example remember things perfectly. The next person may not. And as a result of that, it is very dangerous to say that she would just because everybody else or some other people would have the same reaction.

The last thing, Jane --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Johnson, does this psychologist help her case?

JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He helps the case. I also think next week he`s going to talk about whether it is premeditated or not. The judge is still deciding whether he can talk about it or not. I think he`s going to say the way the crime scene looked, it wasn`t premeditated.

But he explains why she`s lied so many times and you need to do that. Her credibility has been shot. He is establishing a reason why her stories have changed twice and now she is on the third story which they`re trying to sell as the truth.

I think he did a really good job driving home -- this is part of her PTSD. She didn`t accept it. She didn`t lie to get out of it. She lied because she is lying to herself.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not only that --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Brian Silber, criminal defense attorney, he actually said, oh, she lied because it is part of her denial. I mean, really, isn`t that psycho babble? I mean really? I`m not lying; I`m in denial.

SILBER: We have to understand the whole point of putting this witness on the stand. You know, a trial has many parts. And the role of this person, this expert is not to explain why she did what she did but to talk about her psychiatric issues. Later on it will be the job of her attorneys to tie all these parts together and explain to it a jury in a cohesive case theory.

So the fact that he can`t sit there and talk about self-defense really is immaterial. It is just one part of the overall trial.

JACKSON: But that`s the very nature of the case is to her to justify why her actions were appropriate.

SILBER: And her lawyers will do that in the end.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: -- he is a failure with regard to establishing anything that`s helpful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We have to wrap it up right there, fantastic panel. Thank you for the debate. We know that we`re going to be all over the Arias trial when it resumes on Monday.

And on the other side, I know so many of our viewers love animals and Kevin Nealon, who`s the star of "Weeds", former "Saturday Night Live" star is here to talk about his love for animal and help you help them -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day", send your pet pics to hlntv.com/Jane. Daisy Rae, you`re more than ok. And Ozzy, I love that jacket. Where are you going? Maybe for a hike. Morris says no, I`m kind of a couch potato. Tugboat, I knew you were coming.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, little Rico, our "Animal Investigations Unit" is spotlighting Hollywood stars who are converging to tell the public that farm animals are just as important as their pets at home like little Rico here. These stars include Allison Janey from "The West Wing", John Corbett of "Sex and the City" fame; actress Tea Leoni and also "Jackass" star Steve O.

They`ve all joined forces with the wonderful group called Farm Sanctuary for the "Animal Tales" video series, a national campaign to give defenseless farm animals a voice. They are demanding changes to inhumane factory farming practices; Farm Sanctuary -- a wonderful organization that gives these voiceless animals a new voice and a new life.

We are so lucky to have with us tonight a friend of Farm Sanctuary, long-time vegetarian actor and comedian, Kevin Nealon, you remember him from the Showtime comedy hit "Weeds". Here`s a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN NEALON, ACTOR: Do I look even to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

NEALON: I`m working on my tan. I found this George Hamilton autobiography and to be like him, I need the tan, man. I need the deep dark savage tan. Growing up, young George, live by one rule. Do the dumbest thing possible?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

NEALON: Time and again he`d get himself into trouble just for the thrill of weaseling his way out of it. I want to be that weasel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kevin Nealon`s hosting Fun for Farm Animals Celebrity Poker tournament and cocktail party in Hollywood to benefit Farm Sanctuary. Kevin Nealon, we loved you on "Saturday Night Live". We love you now more now that we know you`re fighting for farm animals.

Why are you trying to get America to concentrate on what`s going on with these farm animals?

NEALON: First of all, thank you, Jane Valdez-Mitchell (SIC), I appreciate that intro.

Well, this is a great organization as you said. I`ve been involved with it since the early `90s, and not only do they rescue thousands of animals from the stockyards and slaughter houses, but they educate millions of people and raise the awareness about the inhumane treatment that these animals are going in the stockyards. And it is just horrendous, some of these conditions that they live under.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when floods destroyed an industrial pig farm in Iowa, thousands of pigs tragically drowned in their restricted gestation crates. It was a horror story. However, one pig named "The Doctor" survived that flood and was rescued by Farm Sanctuary. Listen to actor John Corbett describe "The Doctor`s" new life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN CORBETT, ACTOR: Today "The Doctor" lives in joyful bliss at Farm Sanctuary`s New York shelter with his best buddy Sleepy. When you see one of them, you can be sure the other one is right behind. We should all be so lucky to have a best friend like "The Doctor".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pigs have best friends, too. They make friends. They have companions. They`re incredibly intelligent. Each has a distinct personality like little Rico here or your dog or at home. Kevin, what inspired you to become a vegetarian and to advocate for farm animals like pigs?

NEALON: Well, I became aware of some of the situations that these animals were going through and what went into factory farming and into our foods. And I also realized how easy it was not to eat meat. And it is true, it`s even more so today where you can go to any restaurant and get whatever you want and it is not a meat product. And you go to the grocery store and you can have veggie burgers or tofu dogs and there`s really no taste that you`re missing.

The texture is there and the taste, it`s all -- I don`t miss it at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some of the major companies in America have decided to turn away from these pig gestation crates and these battery cages, but there are still many that use these very, very intensive confinement systems. What would you say to those captains of industry?

NEALON: Well, they definitely need to change their attitude in the way they do things. There`s -- it makes no sense at all the way these -- I mean look at this, these conditions are deplorable. It is like worse than being on a cruise ship, to be honest with you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I love your humor, and you know what; sometimes humor gets people to kind of check out the situation and not put up that denial auto mechanism. You`re a very funny guy. More of Kevin Nealon right on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d like you to meet Sonny. A strapping young calf who thinks that Farm Sanctuary`s New York shelter is his own private playground. Sonny is a rambunctious boy. He`s playful, confident and maybe just a little bit spoiled from the around-the-clock attention he received from his caregivers after the rescue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sonny was a downer cow rescued from a stockyard and Farm Sanctuary says he was essentially thrown away because as a male he couldn`t produce milk and therefore wasn`t worth anything. But now he is happily frolicking on this beautiful Farm Sanctuary farm.

But, Kevin, there are nine billion animals, sentient beings that are raised and killed for food every year in this country. These occasional stories the few, the handful that are rescued -- what about the vast majority?

NEALON: Well, it`s unfortunate that they all don`t get the attention that the few get, but I think it`s -- I think the great thing about the Farm Sanctuary is they are changing people`s ways of thinking and bringing that awareness to the table, about what people are eating. Once you see some of these tapes, I mean I`ve seen these countless times and it is just as difficult to watch each time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s important to bear witness, Kevin. I mean, our viewers are courageous. And I know Americans are decent people. And when they see something that`s morally wrong, they do something about it. So we show them the footage, and if people want to get involved, it`s their choice. They can join Farm Sanctuary and they can also think about, as a consumer, they have the ultimate power. Is that correct or not in your opinion?

NEALON: That is correct. It is the power of the consumers. Once the consumers realize what they`re eating and what the animals go through and they stop buying these products, then the supplier is out of business.

You know, there`s a great video that Paul McCartney did called "Glass Walls". I don`t know if you`ve seen that, but it takes down the walls of all these slaughter houses and stockyards and shows you exactly what`s going on there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are so many organizations that are going under cover to expose these conditions, Mercy for Animals as well as the Humane Society of the United States. This is the Humane Society`s video. The Humane Society is a mainstream organization. It is not a fringe group.

Do you see it changing? Do you see attitudes changing now, Kevin?

NEALON: I do see it changing. And I`ve been involved in this for about a little over 20 years, and I`ve seen a lot of change in the way people think about it and their attitudes and what they`re eating. You see a lot more vegetarian restaurants around now and when you see a lot more people in there, whenever I get a vegetarian meal on the airplane, people are always asking looking at it, asking the flight attendant if they can have one, too. Because it`s --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just got off a plane and I got to tell you, the guy sitting next to me was a vegetarian, I`m a vegan, we talked about it on the whole flight.

Kevin Nealon, I want to thank you. I hope you enjoy your Hollywood party. Farmsanctuary.org is the place to go to learn about the movement and if you are in LA to get tickets for the party.

We have to speak because this little guy, Rico, who was rescued from the streets of the Puerto Rico and all of those farm animals who also have personalities, cannot speak for themselves.

Nancy is next.

END