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New Information on Newtown Shooter; Hillary Clinton Supports Same-Sex Marriage

Aired March 18, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: So she accepts the terms of a plea agreement that includes 90 days in a locked rehab facility, in lieu of 90 days in jail, 30 days of community labor and a period of psychotherapy. This is what the judge just announced from Lindsay Lohan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: He shot and killed 20 first-graders in a school shooting that rattled America. And now there is word that Adam Lanza had bigger and deadlier plans in Newtown.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(voice-over): One lawyer calls it the trial of the century, at the heart of it, race. You will hear who is putting the NYPD on trial.

Plus, a chilling discovery inside a dorm room. New details about the body and explosives at a major university.

And one hour from now, Jake Tapper premieres his show, but before he does, I have got a little surprise for him live on my show.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Three months now after the killings in Newtown, Connecticut, an explosive report out today from "The New York Daily News." All kinds of details of a morbid find inside the room of Adam Lanza, this huge spreadsheet printed out by police, some seven feet long, four feet wide laid out like a score sheet.

What it was, was this meticulous tally of the killings by some of the -- 500 the world's most notorious murders. Tease were the killers police say Lanza tried to outdo do when he walked into Sandy Hook Elementary School on that December 14 morning, gunned down 26 people.

One unnamed veteran officer told Mike Lupica of "The New York Daily News" that police believe this was -- quote -- "the work of a video gamer." It was his intent to put his own name at the very top of that list. They believe he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. It is also worth mentioning here that this unnamed source was reportedly speaking on information revealed at a police conference. Connecticut State Police, they are not, let me say that again, not commenting on the details here, saying the conference was designed for law enforcement professionals only.

Want to talk about this Mike Lupica reporting here with Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst. Welcome, sir.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And in Los Angeles, David Swanson, licensed clinical psychologist.

So welcome to both of you.

David, I would like to begin with you because really ever since the shooting, I was there in Newtown and just quickly everyone started talking about Lanza's mental state. Is he sociopathic, does he have a form of autism? When you hear about the spreadsheet, how he perhaps wanted to have his name at the top of this list, huge, huge list, what does that tell you about him?

DAVID SWANSON, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it's clearly very disturbing and it gives you a glimpse into a sociopathic killer like this, somebody who was obsessed, somebody who is disturbed, angry, rageful and looking to act it out.

And on top of all of this, you also get this narcissistic feel that he wanted his name to be known and known forever. It's clearly a sad and evil act. And we all want to make sense of this because we'd like to think that we don't have to go through this again. But the fact is this, until somebody acts, there is really no way to know who is going to do it and when they're going to do it, and that's scary for all of us.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you just quickly, remind all of us, when we throw around the word sociopath, you're a professional, define it for me.

SWANSON: Yes. A sociopathic person really has a blatant disregard for the feelings or regard of other people.

They tend to start young with fire starting or hurting animals. And there is a level of excitement based on that reaction. And this is what we're referring to, somebody who really can't get in touch, doesn't have a sense of empathy for the people that they're wounding.

BALDWIN: Mike, let me quote part of this article Mike Lupica "New York Daily News" article saying -- quote -- "Police believe he learned the principles of the tactical reload from his game," talking about video games, "reload before you're completely out. Keep going, classic police training or something you learn playing kill games."

So he apparently played so many video games, I guess -- I'm not a gamer, but so in a game, you would rather take yourself out because if you don't, someone else gets your points is how it works in the gaming community.

BROOKS: Right.

BALDWIN: So that might have been something he was...

BROOKS: Well, in this, it was almost like a training video for him, because what he was doing, he was doing what we call tactical reload. Before he would enter a new classroom, he would drop that magazine even if he had half of a magazine left, reload with another magazine before entering that room.

BALDWIN: Which is what he did in a game?

BROOKS: That is what he was doing in the games, and that is what you do tactically. It's almost like police training he received through the video games.

But you think about it, you go into these rooms, into classrooms with these little kids, there is no threat. But in his mind, he was perceiving some kind of threat.

BALDWIN: No threat. These are first graders.

BROOKS: Exactly. And that's why he did this because it was a soft target for him, Brooke.

But when you read this and it's so chilling. In this list, it was the names, the number of people killed,the weapons that the killers used, even down to the make and model. And it sounded like he knew a lot about guns.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: Exactly.

But they also believe that his mother was almost feeding into his obsession by making these straw purchases of these weapons for him. And one of my other questions, did she not ever see the seven-by-four list of names?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That is my question, David, to you. And we will never know.

He shot, he killed her on that morning in December. But it begs the question, when you have a child, a young man, making these meticulous lists in this teeny-tiny font, all these pages that have printed out, it's seven-by-four feet, how does the mom not know?

SWANSON: Well, it seems for me that this was a mother who was also off living her own life. As much as she was taking care of him, he was not a kid that would have been identified in the school system and she certainly wasn't equipped enough to deal with a kid like this.

It was often said this was a kid with Asperger's, autism. Kids with Asperger's and autism don't do this kind of a thing. I will bet you nine out of 10 that this was a kid who was locked up in a room just like your analyst is saying playing video games all day. Although there is no clear connection with video games and violent acting out, certainly there is a desensitization.

And, look, we saw this with 9/11. Hijackers who wanted to take over planes used video games to teach them how to simulate a flight like this. So I do think that in this case there was some training going on through the video games. I couldn't agree more.

But again will this was a guy who was very, very disturbed and I think this was probably a mother who was in denial and let these video games baby-sit her child.

BALDWIN: OK. David Swanson and Mike Brooks, thanks to you both.

BROOKS: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: For the first time in her very long political career, Hillary Clinton has come out in support of same-sex marriage. The former U.S. secretary of state, U.S. senator, 2008 presidential candidate had previously backed civil unions and partner benefits for same-sex couples, but never made a full endorsement for marriage. She said it's about equality. Here she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Like so many others, my personal views have been shaped over time by people I have known and loved, by my experience representing our nation on the world stage, my devotion to law and human rights and the guiding principles of my faith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton now joins her husband and dozens of Republicans and Democrats from President Obama to Dick Cheney who are now support of same-sex marriage.

Brian Moulton is the legal director for the Human Rights Campaign who release today's video with Hillary Clinton.

Brian, good to see you.

BRIAN MOULTON, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: How did we come to all of this? Who contacted who? When was this decision made?

Sure.

We just recently heard from the secretary now that she's out of public life at least for the moment anxious to put her voice out there in support of marriage, seeing everything that's going on in state legislatures and the issues coming out before the Supreme Court and bringing that experience she had as secretary of state and a real advocate on LBGT rights internationally to bear here at home.

BALDWIN: So I'm clear, she reached out to you to do this?

MOULTON: That's right.

My organization has a longstanding relationship with the Clintons. Our president, Chad Griffin, began working for them when he was 19. And you saw President Clinton come out for marriage equality through our campaign for marriage in New York state a few years ago. So she came to us building on that longstanding relationship.

BALDWIN: I know we were talking about Bill Clinton recently wanting the Supreme Court to overturn DOMA and I know Chelsea Clinton in a "Vogue" article from some time ago talked about her gay friends and that factoring in a little bit in his decision.

Do we know if that was what was a catalyst for Hillary Clinton? What is the backstory there?

MOULTON: Well, I think we can probably guess pretty well that people's family influences were there on this issue. And Hillary Clinton said it herself there in the clip you played.

And certainly President Obama was moved as he said by his daughters and his wife. So I would imagine that the former president and Chelsea had an influence on where the secretary ended up as well.

BALDWIN: All right, Brian, last question. We're just you and me and a couple people watching. Break the news for me. Are there any more big-named announcements in the works for you?

MOULTON: Well, we have seen a lot of really exciting developments on the issue of marriage and more and more folks coming to the table.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Like folks like?

MOULTON: You know, you never know who the next person will be. But I'm sure we will be hearing from more people in the coming days and weeks.

BALDWIN: I tried. Brian Moulton, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

MOULTON: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is proposing yet another health initiative. This one would require stores to keep tobacco products hidden in cabinets, behind curtains, under the counter. This idea comes one week after the judge struck down Bloomberg's ban on sugary drink containers bigger than 16 ounces. Mayor Bloomberg will be Jake Tapper's first guest on the big new called "THE LEAD." That comes up at 4:00 p.m. right after me. Let's just say you have been charged with murder. You try to wrap your head around that one. Can't imagine. But do you think once you found that out that you would be doing this? Do you think you would be trying to do a headstand in the police interrogation room? By the way, this is Jodi Arias.

By now, we all know Jodi Arias. We have said it over and over. She shot and stabbed her ex-boyfriend, stabbed him more than two dozen times in self-defense, she says. She has just concluded those 18 days on the witness stand. And this, by the way, is video, the headstand video, the jury will not be seeing that. In fact, we just got it ourselves.

I'm joined by Ryan Smith, HLN.

You guys have been all over this Jodi Arias trial. The handstand video, in and of itself, we have our own private thoughts.

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Right.

BALDWIN: Why won't the jury see it, though?

SMITH: Well, because it's prejudicial, which means the prejudicial value will outweigh the probative value, basically what it would tell the jury.

And you can see this as what does it really tell you about whether she's guilty or not, whether she did this or not, whether she killed him in self-defense or not? So that's why it won't get in. But it is so strange. And let me tell you about the time frame of this. The officers talk to her. She she's minutes away from getting arrested, minutes away and she's doing headstands.

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: And she's singing to herself.

BALDWIN: A little Dido.

SMITH: All of this. Yes. And so you have to say to yourself what's this all about?

Now, keep in mind, people have e-mailed me about this and tweeted me and said, well, does this mean she's not in her right mind? They didn't claim insanity here, so this is just her being frankly strange for no apparent reason.

BALDWIN: That's the segue to her mental state. We have this tape that I want to share with you. We can also see her chuckling to herself will, chiding herself for not wearing makeup and again this is the day she's hauled in and charged with murder.

This is a very different Jodi Arias than the one we have, as I mentioned, those 18 days on the witness stand who seems remarkably composed. Today, her attorneys called a forensic psychologist to the witness stand. Why do that? SMITH: Well, to explain a couple of things, first of all, the memory loss, because his idea is that she essentially suffered a kind of amnesia, that something extreme happened like PTSD.

BALDWIN: PTSD, they said.

SMITH: Yes. She remembers it as it happened, but it was so extreme that she gets amnesia and that certain people under the condition that she was under then can come out of that amnesia after a certain period of time, basically everything that she said in her story. And not only that, some of her activities afterwards are consistent with what his analysis is, essentially that she suffered PTSD.

And that's what has happened here. Her mind has blocked -- or let me just change that -- kind of like she didn't make those memories. And then afterwards certain things come back to her, but not fully, because she wasn't able to make those memories. It kind of -- you're looking at me like it's a little far out there.

(CROSSTALK)

SMITH: And so the question is, but you put yourself in the jury's seat, what will they believe? And then he will get cross- examined on the basis of, well, who told you about all of this, where did you get all this information from? And it comes there Jodi Arias. Because he saw her 12 times over three years. So you still have to believe Jodi Arias to believe his story.

BALDWIN: Quickly, do we have any idea when a verdict may happen?

SMITH: I would say it's going to be weeks.

BALDWIN: Weeks.

SMITH: Weeks, because you have to have him. They're going to have a domestic violence expert on the stand and then the prosecution gets to offer its rebuttal case where they will try to rebut everything the defense offered, at least what they want to.

BALDWIN: Ryan Smith.

SMITH: A couple weeks.

BALDWIN: A couple weeks. You can watch, Ryan Smith, HLN "Evening Express." Talk Jodi Arias. Thank you, sir.

SMITH: Sure.

BALDWIN: Two fake tourists, one hijacked helicopter and two escaped prisoners, a broad daylight aerial jail break from the room of a Canadian prison. Witnesses are calling this the James Bond-style escape. You will want to hear exactly how this went down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

BALDWIN: The verdict is in, but the investigation is not over. A judge convicted two teenagers in Steubenville, Ohio, of raping a 16- year-old girl. Now prosecutors want to focus on others who may have covered up the crime and you may be surprised to learn who that might include.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: When a 16-year-old girl from West Virginia woke up one day in August, she was naked and had no clue what had happened to her.

Well, now she and the rest of the world know she was raped, as a juvenile judge court ruled just this past weekend. He found these two high school football players from Steubenville, Ohio, delinquent, that's the juvenile version of the word guilty, for violating this teenaged girl.

Now, the victim's mother had this to say to the guilty 17-year- old Trent Mays and 16-year-old Malik Richmond, who both broke down after hearing the verdict against them. We are not identifying this mother in order to keep the victim's name private.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It did not matter what school you went to, what city you lived in or what sports you have played. Human compassion is not taught by a teacher, a coach or a parent. It is a God-given gift instilled in all of us.

You displayed not only a lack of this compassion, but a lack of any moral code. Your decisions that night affected countless lives including those most dear to you. You were your own accuser through the social media that you chose to publish your criminal conduct on. This does not define who my daughter is. She will persevere, grow and move on.

I have pity for you both. I hope you fear the lord, repent for your actions, and pray hard for his forgiveness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And this is not over. The Ohio attorney general says is he convening a grand jury to further investigate the case, this time here focusing on what happened after the players violated this victim.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE DEWINE (R), OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL: Did anyone have information that they should have reported to the police? In Ohio, it's a failure -- it's crime to fail to report a felony if you know that has occurred.

That will be certainly one of the things we will be looking at. We still have 16 people who refused to testify or refused to talk to us in that investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Drew Findling back here with me.

And I want to pick up where he talks about failure to report a crime. So he talks about failure to report a crime, failure to report a felony. So in this case there were a lot of young people around, a lot of people with their iPhones snapping photos of this girl. If I'm a 15-year-old, I took a photo, I delete the photo, could I be charged with a crime?

DREW FINDLING, ATTORNEY: I don't think that is really what he's looking to. I think that any parent out there that -- child has a text message sent to them with a nude picture is going to say, oh, my gosh, delete that. That's how we raise our children.

I think what he's focusing more on is obstruction of justice. Remember that there were adults in the community. There were parents. There was even an administrator from the school, a school principal referenced. There were football coaches referenced.

They're going to use the jury grand jury as an investigative body -- and that's what he said in one of his interviews -- to see who was responsible for obstructing the investigation. I think they're looking for adults.

BALDWIN: What about just looking at this past trial that's been so talked about like the role of social media? But do you think that the outcome of this case could have been very, very different had the jury -- had the people in the court not had this photo?

FINDLING: Well, I think what was very different about this case is the fact that there was no jury. It was just a judge.

BALDWIN: There was no jury. I just realized that. It's juvenile.

FINDLING: And I think what we always have to remember is that a judge is guided in juvenile by what's in the best interests of the child. And you so appropriately said not guilty. Delinquent. It's all different. If the judge is even hesitating a little bit, he will say I think it's in the best interests of these two children to be rehabilitated. Therefore, I'm going to find them delinquent so they get the treatment they need.

BALDWIN: And then just quickly, I had read this morning about these two teens could end up having to register as sex offenders, but it would only be after they come of age.

FINDLING: That's right.

In order to comply with the Adam Walsh Act, OK, what Ohio has done is they have come up with three tiers of how to deal with registration. The Adam Walsh Act is a federally mandated to bring all the states together to have somewhat of a systemic way of dealing with registration. Ohio had some problems until last year in how they dealt with it.

They have now broken it up into three tiers. A third tier, the most severe, is rape. And it says that if you're going to go in a lockdown facility, which they are, when you get out, you go back to the judge and unfortunately for these young men, it seems that it will be a lifetime registration and at 25 years they will be able to go back to the judge and ask for that to be released.

BALDWIN: Lifetime.

Drew Findling,thank you.

FINDLING: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Print, point, shoot, company making gun parts on a 3-D printer gets a federal license to sell firearms. Guess what's next? They want to allow to you print gun parts from your own home. Power block is next.

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