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Video Shows Handcuffed Arias Primping
Aired March 20, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... aware of any other non-sexual assault by a stranger in this area?
RICHARD SAMUELS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is that?
SAMUELS: At age 13, she was accosted. A knife was held to her throat. And this was in some information reported by her brother during an interview.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it matter to you that there are inconsistencies in this case as they apply to the defendant?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things that she told you was that he was the only individual ever that she had ever had anal intercourse with, correct?
SAMUELS: Early on in that (INAUDIBLE) she did say that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`s -- you`re implying that later on in the discussion, she told you something different.
SAMUELS: She was involved in a homicide.
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I don`t remember what I was thinking. After I shot him -- I didn`t know that I shot him, but after the gun went off...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "But you do not remember stabbing Travis and dragging his body?"
ARIAS: I think, actually, that I have a very good memory.
SAMUELS: She recalled herself being chased.
ARIAS: I can remember tons of things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... remembering that he was threatening her life.
ARIAS: Well, I mean, again, I think I have a really excellent memory.
I don`t have memory of that.
SAMUELS: She began to remember, becoming reconnected to her environment while on that road in Arizona covered with blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that all of this has interfered with her sex life, right?
ARIAS: The sound waves are hitting my ears, but the brain is not computing.
(INAUDIBLE) I don`t think I have memory issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. After undergoing a brutal cross-examination, murder defendant Jodi Arias`s star witness, psychologist Dr. Dick Samuels, the defense team tries a Hail Mary save. As the jury questions pile up, Arias downing pills in open court.
In the last hours, new police surveillance emerges showing Arias in handcuffs, under suspicion of murder one, trying desperately to fluff her hair before her mug shot.
Everyone, we are live and camped outside that Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the latest. There you see Jodi Arias in police interrogation. But now I want to show you video that has just come out of Arias fluffing her hair while in handcuffs. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Detective Flores could take those off for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that`s what he told you anyway (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go to the panel. Liz, get me Eleanor Odom, death penalty-qualified sex crimes prosecutor and death penalty murder cases. Also joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, defense attorney Peter Odom. Also with us tonight, Susan Constantine, body language expert out of Orlando.
Welcome, everybody. We`re going to bring Jean Casarez and Beth Karas in, too. But first of all, Eleanor, would you expect her -- she`s now been charged with murder one -- let`s see the video, please, as we`re talking -- in the death of her lover, the slashing death and she`s desperately -- watch her booty-scooting around on the floor to try to get enough room to sling her hair. It looks like an Herbal Essence commercial. You know when the lady`s in the shower slinging her hair around? Well, there you have it. You know, really. What...
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Exactly, Nancy.
GRACE: Help me, Eleanor!
ELEANOR ODOM: Well, Nancy, what I would point out is this complete disregard for human life and only a regard for herself and her situation, how she looks, and completely disregarding the fact that she left Travis Alexander on the floor in his home stabbed 29 times!
GRACE: Susan Constantine, body language expert, I`m not even going to bother talking about that she`s wearing a pair of tight pants because that`s irrelevant. But I see her sliding -- she`s handcuffed. If I were handcuffed, charged with murder one, I would not be concerned about fluffing my hair out. She`s going practically under the table to sling back her hair.
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Exactly. And what do we do when we feel very sexual and very empowered as a woman? What we do is we tend to kind of scrunch into our seats, lift our head back and sling the hair, if we`ve got long hair, swing it back and forth.
And what she does is she kind of perches (ph) her chest up, arches her head back and leans her head back, showing the vulnerable part of her neck. That`s actually a sexual -- she`s feeling -- she`s feeling very sexy. She`s feeling empowered. And that`s what I`ve seen there, is that she really thinks that, you know, she`s still Jodi Arias, you know, her typical sexpot that she normally is.
GRACE: OK, Peter Odom, you`re the defense attorney. How glad are you that the jury hasn`t seen this yet?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How glad am I that Jodi hasn`t seen this yet?
GRACE: Jury hasn`t seen this yet.
PETER ODOM: I don`t see what a jury`s going to see here, Nancy, other than a woman who`s been in custody for several hours with her hands behind her back is trying to find a comfortable position. I don`t know that this means empowerment. I really don`t think it does. It`s just someone with a sore butt.
GRACE: OK, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CHARGED WITH MURDER: (INAUDIBLE) they were saying that (INAUDIBLE) what they were planning on doing from the very beginning from my first day. They wrote me off (INAUDIBLE) first day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ANTHONY: I have been. I mean, this is something (INAUDIBLE) preparing for from the beginning (INAUDIBLE) words that were directly (INAUDIBLE) from (INAUDIBLE) and also from (INAUDIBLE) They were saying that this is what they were planning on doing from the very beginning, from my first day. They wrote me off as of the first day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something (INAUDIBLE)
ANTHONY: I have been. I mean, this is something honestly we`ve been preparing for from the beginning just because of words that were directly spoken from (INAUDIBLE) and also from (INAUDIBLE) They were...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All right, there you see tot mom behind bars, primping her hair, too. We`ve got a whole list of women caught on interrogation video, all of -- most of them found guilty, that took great pains in fixing their hair and makeup just before or just after they`re booked on murder one. It`s quite a phenomenon.
This video just being released. We have more video to show you that`s just been released.
But let`s go straight to the courthouse. With me right now, Jean Casarez and Beth Karas, Alexis Weed. Also joining us, Matt Zarrell.
Jean, in court today, how did the defense do trying to save Dr. Richard Samuels?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Dr. Richard Samuels, not well. Trying to Jodi Arias, a bit better. You know, there was this exam, this diagnostic exam to determine if you had post-traumatic stress disorder. And he admitted yesterday that a critical question she answered was based on the intruders -- have you been assaulted by a stranger? Yes, the intruders, the ninjas.
And then all of the other questions, almost, that followed were based on that answer. Defense tried to show today, well, maybe in her mind, she was talking about the truth so all of the answers would be the same based on the actual trauma she went through.
But the problem is he never readministered the test when he realized that she based the whole thing on a lie. So he was discredited through that. She may have been helped because maybe she was thinking about what she actually had done to Travis.
GRACE: Beth Karas, also in court -- Beth Karas, what did you observe?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Well, I watched the jury continue to pay close attention and submit notes. There are so many questions that the jurors have for Dr. Samuels. It`ll be so interesting to hear, you know, whether or not they`re buying his story or not.
But the essence of what came out of what I heard today is that if Jodi Arias were lying, fabricating her answers when taking these tests and talking to him, then she would have done a better job because there were three categories of scores for one of the tests, where she would answer one, two, or three, and it would be assigned a number and the aggregate would determine -- at least a part -- it would help to determine whether or not she suffers from PTSD.
And she would give low-score answers to some of the questions. And if she were lying, she could have done a better job lying and hit a higher score. And so that is kind of where I think Jennifer Wilmott was going with a lot of today`s questioning.
GRACE: And what`s so interesting, Beth Karas, is that he went on and on and on on the stand the other day saying how difficult it would be to try to trick a psychologist to get a different score, when today he said, Well, very simply, she could have answered yes to more questions to get a higher score, but she didn`t do that. That`s completely contrary to what he had been saying.
But I`m telling you, Beth, I`ve been concerned about this guy, ever since I found out he was sending personal greeting cards to Jodi Arias and then bought her a book. I mean, come on, Beth. How often does your internist send you greeting cards?
GRACE: OK, let`s go in the courtroom and hear Samuels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMUELS: Perhaps I should have readministered that test.
Perhaps I should have readministered that test.
Perhaps I should have readministered that test.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t know that, do you.
SAMUELS: No, I don`t. I`m speculating.
I did investigate her.
Those I did not.
I reviewed the report numerous times, and I must admit I missed it.
I don`t remember saying that, and if I did, I misspoke.
I have to find the page it was on. It`s not numbered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any problems with your memory? Because this just...
SAMUELS: No, I do not have problems with my memory.
I have to look at my notes.
I have to read in my notes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you need to refer to your notes?
SAMUELS: I`d like to refer to my notes.
I have to refresh myself.
I don`t recall specifically. I would like to have access to some paperwork so I could refresh my memory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This testimony by the expert, Dr. Dick Samuels -- he was carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t know that, do you.
SAMUELS: No I don`t. I`m speculating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, made it up right now, speculating.
SAMUELS: No, clinical judgment, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, you just used the word speculating, didn`t you.
SAMUELS: OK. I used the word.
I`m not sure if she actually said sweater.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you did say that, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are your words, correct?
SAMUELS: Those are my words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no, that`s not what you said.
SAMUELS: Oh, I`m sorry (INAUDIBLE)
Something like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let`s play it again so that we get it clear.
SAMUELS: That`s what it says. And what are you reading from, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I ask the questions. Do you understand that?
SAMUELS: I was comparing her diagnostic...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no?
SAMUELS: Can you repeat your question, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That does not fit the diagnosis for PTSD or post- traumatic stress (INAUDIBLE) right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Richard Samuels on the stand, as I said earlier this morning, carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Right now, let`s go into the courtroom for testimony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yesterday, you talked about how much you charge an hour. Is it $250?
SAMUELS: Well, at the time that I signed on to this case, it was, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And that`s after 35 years? That`s what you`re charging in this case?
SAMUELS: In this case, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me ask you this about the MCMI (ph). Is a person able to fake their answers?
SAMUELS: If someone had studied the construction of the MCMI, or any psychological test, for that matter, meaning they went into the literature, did a comprehensive examination of why particular items were chosen, how to answer various items to throw off the test, it`s conceivable that it can be done. I might be able to take that test and generate a result that isn`t consistent with my personality.
However, the average person is not sophisticated in that area. Literature has to be searched for, and it`s not always very accessible, and it`s complicated. And it requires an advanced degree to truly understand how these tests are formulated.
So while it is possible, it`s highly improbable that someone could feign the results on the MCMI. And also, there are certain validity indicators within the MCMI which would detect when someone is either distorting or lying. There are certain characteristics that are pointed out to you so that you may need to take with a grain of salt some of the results that you obtain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And with regard to Ms. Arias`s validity scales on the MCMI, how did those come out?
SAMUELS: They came out within the norm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So no concerns, then.
SAMUELS: I had no concerns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On to question number four, non-sexual assault by a stranger. And she answered yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know of -- now, at the time, she`s talking about an intruder story to you during this time period, is that right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you aware of any other non-sexual assault by a stranger to Ms. Arias?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is that?
SAMUELS: At age 13, she was accosted, a knife was held to her throat. And this was in some information reported by her brother during an interview.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And so with regard to number four, when she answers yes, do you know if she`s specifically talking about this intruder story or is she talking about when she was 13? Did you know?
SAMUELS: I didn`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it important to you?
SAMUELS: It would have been important if I was doing therapy, but it wasn`t important for the purpose of this test.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And number five, sexual assault by a family member. She answers no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And number six, sexual assault by a stranger. She answers no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Matt Zarrell. You know, I keep hearing him saying it`s not important, it`s not important, it`s not important. This is the first time we`re hearing anything about her being, quote, "accosted" at age 13 by some knife-wielding maniac. We`ve heard nothing about that at all. She was on the stand nearly 20 days, Matt, and now we`re just hearing about this?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, it`s another new detail that we`re first hearing now. And also, you know, Samuels said he got this -- it was reported by the brother, but it appears that Samuels did not interview any member of this family except for Jodi Arias when forming this opinion. So we wonder How much background did he really have on this?
GRACE: Well, then, when did he talk to the brother? If he got this from the brother but he interviewed no one in the family, how does that wash out? And in my mind, this is just another way of getting in hearsay. It`s actually double hearsay. He`s stating what the brother told him Jodi Arias told him about an event that happened when she was 13.
ZARRELL: Well, no. What he`s saying is, is that the brother reported it in an interview. He doesn`t specify that the brother told Samuels.
GRACE: Another issue, when he was saying that she had post-traumatic stress syndrome, but he doesn`t know which event brought it on -- well, didn`t she answer that the event had occurred in the last three years?
ZARRELL: Yes, exactly. Later on, it`s revealed that within six months to three years is when the incident occurred, the attack by a stranger, not by someone she knew.
GRACE: Well, then that couldn`t possibly have been the incident when she was 13. What did we learn this week about a sweater? Tell me about that, Matt Zarrell.
ZARRELL: OK, now, Samuels in an interview with the prosecutor just last week revealed that after Arias was body-slammed, she rolled to get away, she that claims Travis grabbed her clothing, grabbed her sweater. Sweater was the word that Samuels used in the taped interview with the prosecutor. Then she goes down the hallway. Now, as she gets the clothing grabbed, she remembers the gun. Unfortunately, that`s not what she said on the stand, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, out to you, Jean Casarez. This is the first we`re hearing about this portion of the attack, when he grabbed her and pulls her back by her sweater. I would think that is fairly significant.
CASAREZ: Fairly significant, except that as his testimony continued, he said, You know, maybe sweater is my word. Maybe she didn`t say that after all. And remember, June 4th of 2008, it was 96 degrees about the time that that attack occurred.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, I`m just curious. I`ve been trying to remember this. Did he rephrase it after the defense got a chance to coach him? Did he go back and say, Oh, maybe that sweater was my word?
CASAREZ: No. Very quickly -- very quickly, he said, You know, maybe that`s my word. Maybe it wasn`t hers.
GRACE: Or maybe it was hers.
GRACE: We are live and camped outside the Jodi Arias trial. I want to show you a disturbing new theory that has emerged. Let`s see the shot of Travis Alexander`s eye. Take a look very carefully. Let`s zoom in, Liz. I want to see the one and two-shot we have prepared. Take a look at this theory. After very, very careful consideration, H.J. Blankenship (ph) has spotted the possibility of two people there in the iris of Travis Alexander`s eye. Take a look at that.
We`re going to go out to the caller. Sheila in Illinois. Hi, Sheila. What`s your question? Sheila, what`s your question, dear?
Oh, excuse me. Billy in Florida. Hi, Billy. What`s your question? OK, do I have Sheila or Billy with me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How`re you doing?
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know that if she`s convicted -- she did it, she did it, no -- everybody knows she did it -- will they actually give her the death penalty? Because she needs it. She needs it.
GRACE: Well, Sheila in Illinois, there`s no doubt in my mind that she did it. I`m interested to find out if they will actually sentence a female through the death penalty. This prosecutor, Martinez, has actually put a woman on the Arizona death row before. Then it will take many, many years before it is ever implemented, if she is sentenced to the death penalty. I think there`s a strong chance she might get the death penalty in this case, Sheila.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have any memory problems, do you?
(INAUDIBLE) Hold on one second. I guess the actual test is not here. I -- and I had it (INAUDIBLE) together. Ah. Hold on. I will have to look at my notes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it out of your folder so that I can mark the PBS (ph) test along with the (INAUDIBLE)
SAMUELS: Oh, OK. So I don`t have that with me here. I apologize. I`m afraid I left it home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you have it with you?
SAMUELS: I must have left it on my desk.
That is the hand scoring sheet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why was there a six there present at first and then you changed it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I added them up incorrectly.
I don`t remember, so we have to go with what I wrote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, are you confessing or saying that you were wrong in writing that down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
It would have been helpful to corroborate, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that wasn`t done in this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a mistake, then?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Um, um, um, um. Hold on a second.
GRACE: This shrink has been seeing her behind bars for three years in preparation for this day. This day. The moment when you go up to the plate and you hit a home run or you strike out. Do or die, one moment to shine, and that is what happened. For $250 an hour.
Welcome back, everybody. We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse and taking your calls live tonight. I want to show again that video, the disturbing video and analysis by H.J. Blankenship (ph). But also, before I go to that, Liz, I want to see the shot of Jodi Arias downing pills in court. Do you have that video or those still shots of her? And out to you, Beth Karas, do we have any idea what Arias is on?
KARAS: Well, I was told that inmates are allowed to have certain pills issued by the jail doctor, but they are over-the-counter drugs. It could be an antacid, it could be an aspirin. I was also told through another source that she had a migraine headache and it was an aspirin. But I am told by the jail that they do allow, by the sheriff`s office they do allow over-the-counter drugs as long as a doctor is aware of it. So she probably was taking an aspirin for a headache.
GRACE: Remember, about a week ago, everybody had to pack up and go home because Arias had a headache. This in the aftermath of learning how much the defense is costing for Jodi Arias, a staggering, staggering number, approaching $1 million.
We are taking your calls, out to Billy in Florida. Hi, Billy, what is your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good.
CALLER: You threw me off with that million dollars. Wow, OK. What is very important to me is that I was in a home invasion years back, and I was tied up and had a gun in my mouth. I went to a psychologist, who said I had PTSD. I didn`t even know what it was.
Now, what I find interesting is that this is not even relevant in this case, because post traumatic stress disorder, the keyword is post, it`s after the fact. And you have to look for what is the stressor. She didn`t have pre- post traumatic stress disorder. She didn`t go to his house already having a traumatic event happening to her. She went there, planned the murder, murdered him, killed him, and now they are trying to say that she is upset about it, she has nightmares, she can`t sleep. She is cut off from people, she has hyper vigilance.
GRACE: You are leaving out the most important one, Billy in Florida. Remember, she said one of the big problems with this whole murder is it was ruining her sex life.
CALLER: Oh, my goodness. And here is this thing that I have a question for you. I see this new video coming out today, and she is clearly telling the detective that she found out that Travis was dating, and she got upset about it, she went to his house, and they had a big confrontation, and she was arguing with him about it, and harsh words were said and she left.
To me, if I was Juan Martinez, I would now attack that so hard, because that seals the case. That gives you a reason for premeditation. Now you have jealous rage. Before, she said I wasn`t upset that he was going to Cancun with another girl, which we all know is not true. Now she is saying, and she must have forgot that it was being taped, that she obviously (inaudible).
GRACE: OK. Let`s go to our own shrink, joining us tonight, is Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist joining us out of L.A. I would really like to hear your analysis of what is happening.
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D.: This was bungled. This expert should more than anything have determined whether she was lying. We have tests that are designed to determine if she was lying. That is foremost. Because then we`d have that evidence rather than him speculating on that.
No. 2, it felt like he was convinced she had PTSD out the gate. A good psychologist investigates every diagnosis, because I think there was other stuff going on that he didn`t even explore. So you can`t just let the tail wag the dog, which is precisely what seems to have happened in this case, and then he made all the pieces fit into a lovely defense. And finally, an expert is not supposed to advocate for a client. You are supposed to offer an objective opinion on the basis of the evidence, and it seems like he wanted to get her off. That is not his job as an expert.
GRACE: Dr. Ramani, question. It seems to me that when you prepare and prepare and prepare for this one moment, your star turn, when you have got to deliver, you must deliver, you can`t drop the ball. Leaving your notes at home. I counted up five or six times I think it was that he said, oh, I left that at my desk. Where is his desk? Because I would send somebody to go get it, because he kept saying that over and over and over.
DURVASULA: Yes, it is very sloppy. Even the way the notes were taken. For such a high stakes case, you better approach this more carefully. And the fact that he spent so much time with her over so many years, most experts get in there, they get their evidence, they get their testing done, they get their interviews done, and then they go and deliver on this. It is too long.
GRACE: Joining me right now, a special guest out of Salt Lake City. Clancy Talbot. This is a friend of Travis Alexander`s, who was on the prosecution`s witness list. Clancy, thank you for being with us.
CLANCY TALBOT: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: It turns out, yes, it turns out that you were in a prepaid legal event. You had a couple of glasses of wine or something. And from what I understand felt tipsy, and Travis helped you stand up or walk to your seat or wherever you were going, and that was the extent of your interaction, although you two were friends.
Were you confronted about that by Jodi Arias?
TALBOT: I was. And she was jealous of all of his friends, male or female, but especially females. And the next day she actually managed to get me in a restroom. I`m on the executive director floor, where there is thousands of women using one restroom. She got me in there by myself. Which, I still don`t know how that is possible.
GRACE: Just be glad she didn`t have a knife.
TALBOT: Yes, looking back on it, it was a lot more creepy than I thought it was at the time. But I mean, I never had a good feeling about her anyway, so it was very awkward to be in the restroom with her confronting me.
GRACE: What did she say?
TALBOT: She told me that Travis and her were an item and that he is basically hers, to make sure that I knew that. I told her Travis was like my little brother, really didn`t know what her issue was. And she wouldn`t really let me leave. She was kind of blocking the doorway. And then one of my friends came back in that was waiting outside and wanted to know what was going on, and that is how I actually left, got to leave the restroom, because she wasn`t going to let me leave until she was done saying what she was saying. So now looking back on it, it`s just scary.
GRACE: How do you compare her demeanor with you in the bathroom when she confronted you? You are yet another woman that she confronted in a jealous rage. How do you compare her demeanor that time to what you are seeing on the stand?
TALBOT: She is not someone with low self-esteem. She is not someone that is not confrontational. She can hold her own when she is upset. I mean, you know, I was wondering, you know, what she was going to do when I was in the restroom. I think it`s an act, what she is doing right now. And she is a very good manipulator, very good.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls and camped out live outside the Phoenix courthouse. The family album is back with your photos. Tonight, South Carolina friends Chad and Britney Gilliam (ph) love scrap booking and their family dogs. Share photos through ireport family album at hlntv.com/nancygrace, and click on Nancy`s family album.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After this shot rang out, you said that you went into a fog, right?
ARIAS: Yes, I began to go -- things get foggy up to that point. She didn`t say [EXPLETIVE DELETED] kill you bitch until after I got away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your memory becomes faulty immediately upon you shooting him?
ARIAS: Yes, things get very foggy from there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reported remembering that he was threatening her life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shot takes him down and it creates a fog for you. Is that what you are saying?
ARIAS: It begins to create a fog. After I broke away from him, he said [EXPLETIVE DELETED] kill you, bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he said it after you shot him, right?
ARIAS: Yes, that occurred afterwards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the time you tried to get away, which you do not seem to remember.
ARIAS: He said [EXPLETIVE] kill you, bitch.
Right at that point when my memory begins to end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A grand jury indicted you.
ARIAS: So it`s all public now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s public record.
ARIAS: So does everyone know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If somebody goes on -- and checks the public record, they can check it. And they would come up with an indictment against you for murder.
ARIAS: (inaudible) on the news tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t report anything to the news.
ARIAS: Has his family called today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. They don`t even know that I`m talking to you.
ARIAS: But they have been calling every day?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every day.
ARIAS: Are you going to tell them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I talk to them every day. How would you feel if your little brother or little sister was killed?
ARIAS: I have been wanting to call every day too but didn`t want to look obsessive. So I just tried to limit it to once a week.
This is a really trivial question and it will reveal how shallow I am. But before they book me, can I clean myself up a little bit?
John told me he`s like, you know, Travis is dating. And I said OK. And I assumed he was going on dates and things. He was like, no, he is really trying to date. And I said OK. And he is like, he is desperate to get married. So that night, I confronted him about it, and we had a really big fight. It was also a bunch of things were thrown in the mix together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the confrontation that we were talking about earlier. You can cobble together from that what really happened when Travis Alexander was murdered.
Liz, do you have the head stand video that we can show the viewers? I think I have got Liz with me in the control room. OK, here we go, what is this, Susan Constantine? You`re the body language expert. I doubt you`ve ever analyzed someone charged with murder one doing a head stand in the interrogation room?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: You know, Nancy, I have analyzed a lot of body language before, but this is way beyond the scope of reading body language. This is in psychotic behavior. You know, when you`re watching her change from scene to scene, you know, it`s almost like a psychotic breakdown. One minute she is pruning (ph) herself, she`s laughing and cackling, she is looking through the trash, and then she does a head stand. I can`t make any sense out of it, other than the fact that either it`s a psychotic breakdown or she is contrived and she is making -- knowing that other people are looking at her and she is trying to appear that she`s nuts.
GRACE: Out to you, Alexis Weed. Do we expect the jury to see all the video that we have seen?
WEED: No, Nancy. The jury will not see all of this video, I guess fortunately for Jodi Arias. They will not see the head stand video, they will not see her flipping her hair back as you said, like a shampoo commercial, but can you imagine if they did?
GRACE: Back to Clancy Talbot. This is a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. This woman was on the prosecution witness list. She was confronted while she was alone in the lady`s bathroom by Jodi Arias over Travis Alexander. With me is Clancy Talbot. You saw Arias in Utah after the murder, correct?
TALBOT: Yes. Before we knew he was murdered. She came here that very next day. And we were expecting her the day before. And she was talking with Ryan Burns. And you know, we were all wondering where she was at. And we were sitting at dinner at about 11:30 at night. She called and told him that she got lost, she ran out of gas, her phone died, she lost her charger. Just all kinds of strange things. And she came the next day. She walked up. She had dark hair, long sleeve shirts on in 90 to 100 degree weather. She came up, gave me a hug, which she already gave me the creeps before this point, so that was not very comfortable for me.
And then when we went to dinner after our event, I noticed she had Band-Aides all over her fingers. And it was just really strange because she would try to go to events, like leadership events that you had to actually qualify to go to. And we were going on one the next day, we were going four-wheeling (ph), and she said she couldn`t go, she needed to get back to go to work. So she left the restaurant kind of early for the meeting after the meeting. And she actually went to Ryan`s house and stayed there until about 3:30 in the morning. So speculating now, I look back and think that she just did not want to be here thinking that Travis was going to be found that next day, and did not want to be with us when that happened.
GRACE: Did you observe an incident when Jodi showed up uninvited to Travis Alexander`s home?
TALBOT: Yes. We had an event in Arizona. And I was staying at Travis`s house with about 30 other people. One of my girlfriends and I were staying in his room. He was staying in his office. He told Jodi that there wasn`t room for her, and it was probably about three months after they had met. And they weren`t official. And she showed up there and announced to everyone that was there, about 30 people, that she introduced herself and said she was Travis`s girlfriend. And Travis said in front of everyone, no, she is not my girlfriend, we went on a couple of dates. Because he had another girl there that he was dating. And told her in front of everyone, you know, there is not room for you here. I will see you tomorrow at the event. And she ended up sleeping under his Christmas tree. So, just strange. She actually testified that she slept on the couch there and was holding his hand. And he was in his office. He slept in his office, she slept under the Christmas tree, and Travis wasn`t under the tree with her, so.
GRACE: Back to friend of Travis Alexander, joining us tonight, Clancy Talbot, on the state`s witness list. Clancy, you have been in touch with Travis` family, correct?
TALBOT: Yes, yes.
GRACE: How are they?
TALBOT: I`ve talked to them quite a bit, and, you know, you probably know more than anyone what they`re going through, and they`re amazing. They`re very strong. It was really hard for me to sit in court and just be emotionless, and they are an amazing family. None of them live there, so they`re paying all of this out of pocket. We`ve actually -- a couple of good friends have opened a fund, because a lot of people have asked how they can donate to this family. It`s Travisalexanderfund.com. This family would not ask for any of this. They are so strong. They`re a great example to all of us, and, you know, like I said, Nancy, you probably know more than anyone what they`re going through, and to hear all of these things being told about Travis, who is such an amazing person --
GRACE: Horrible. It`s horrible.
TALBOT: It`s wrong.
GRACE: It physically makes me nauseous. I`ll never forget the day when I heard that the defense is going to claim Travis Alexander had a criminal rap sheet, which is not true. I was just sick, all day, until I finally got to the set and found out that he had been cleared.
You know, Peter Odom, how important is it for this family to be there, even though they`ve been told and reprimanded, they cannot have any outbursts or no emotion whatsoever, how important is it to the state to have them there in the state`s corner?
P. ODOM: Nancy, I think it`s critical. But it`s not only critical for the perception of the jury, I think it`s critical for them. I mean, they`ve gone through what no family should have to go through.
GRACE: Eleanor, I agree with Peter. You can`t -- it is -- you can`t put it in a book, you can`t write it down, how much it means for them to be there, to represent Travis.
E. ODOM: Well, it does, Nancy. And even though nothing can ever take away the fact that their son was brutally murdered, but it does provide some sense of closure for the families. And I think it`s always very important to have my victim`s family there in court watching the entire proceedings.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Eastman, 28, Moose Pass, Alaska. Purple Heart, two Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals. Parents Joy and Laurin (ph). Four sisters, four brothers. Widow, Gabby, served the Marines, two daughters. Christopher Eastman, American hero.
So, Beth Karas, court ended very quickly after someone actually puked in the courtroom. What happened?
KARAS: Yes, this poor woman, a spectator on the other side on -- other side from where the media sits in the gallery, got sick. She was in one of the middle rows, and then got sick again in the hallway, poor thing. It was about a half an hour to quitting time, so the judge said, all right, let`s all go home.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, I think that was a good thing. Weigh in.
CASAREZ: Sometimes you`ve just got to tell it like it is. We`re ready with pen and pencil, ready for these questions right now, and court just adjourned because of the vomit. She puked right where everybody was walking.
GRACE: Well, OK. There`s vomit in the courtroom. It must be Wednesday. Court is adjourned on that note. But the jury questions are piling up, and we`ll bring it to you live tomorrow night. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.