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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
New Evidence Linked Man Killed in Shootout to Colorado Slaying; Assault Rifles Indispensable?; On Syria's Doorstep; Two Teens Arrested In Infant's Murder; FAA Closing 149 Airport Control Towers
Aired March 22, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks. Good evening, everyone.
A big night for breaking news and stories you won't see anywhere else. Breaking news in the killing of Colorado's prison chief, you know, he was shot to death on his doorstep. New evidence tonight linking a man killed in Texas after a shootout with the killing in Colorado.
Also, vice president Biden says rifles like this serve no legitimate purpose off the battlefield. Well tonight, the eye opening reason why some are calling them indispensable and has nothing to do with depending against criminals. We will explain ahead.
And later, criminals were inside her home and she was all alone, hiding in that closet. Tonight, one very brave teenager tells us how she kept it together, called the cops and survived as the bad guys bust in.
We begin, though, with breaking news in the murder of Colorado's prison chief. The evidence that links the shooting in Colorado to the death of a suspect in Texas. New pictures showing just how close one of the Texas lawmen came to dying at the hands of that suspect. That's a bullet hole in that windshield, just inches from where the driver's head was. There's another hole inside the car, either from the first slug or from another shot.
The suspect, Evan Ebel, a paroled white supremacist with a long prison record, was shooting and driving, driving fast, through Wise County, Texas. Until he hit an 18-wheeler, that is. Somehow he survived that, and then deputies shot him dead.
Now, that was yesterday. Ever since, investigators from Texas and Colorado have been trying to link evidence from the wreckage in the car to the doorstep murder of Tom Clements, the late director of Colorado's prison system, and potentially another killing as well.
Well tonight, they may have made at least one forensic connection. Casey Wian joins us with breaking news.
What's the latest, Casey?
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Anderson, there is a lot of news in this case. These two cases, according to a search warrant that was filed today in Wise County, Texas, looking for permission to search that vehicle that Evan Ebel was driving. Investigators say that they have found shell casings in Texas that match both in brand and in caliber shell casings found at the murder scene of Tom Clements and also at the murder scene of a Domino's pizza delivery driver on Sunday near Denver. They also say that the vehicle in the murder of that domino's pizza delivery man was a 1991 Cadillac sedan de ville, that's the same vehicle, same type of vehicle that Evan Ebel was driving when he was killed after that high speed crash in Texas yesterday.
Also, new revelations that during his long term in prison for six felonies that we have been able to uncover, he was convicted of assaulting a Latino prison guard. We don't know if the ethnicity of that prison guard had anything to do with Ebel's well documented connections to the 211 white supremacist prison gang that he is reportedly a member of, Anderson.
COOPER: So there are reports that Colorado's governor, John Hickenlooper, actually knows his father. Do we know anything more about that?
WIAN: That's right. CNN's affiliate KUSA is reporting that the two men have had a long friendship, Jack Ebel is a well respected attorney here in the Denver area of Colorado. We spoke with neighbors who knew him. They are very sympathetic for the father. They say he was trying to raise two children by himself. Evan Ebel's sister, 16- year-old younger sister, was killed in an auto accident in 2006. Now, Jack Ebel's son has been killed and he's under suspicion, the main suspect in two murders, Anderson.
COOPER: Wow. And what more do we know about the link or any possible link between Ebel and the Domino's pizza delivery man who was killed in Colorado?
WIAN: Interesting evidence and a very clear link, it would seem. Investigators say according to that search warrant that they found a Domino's pizza carrier, one of those boxes that delivery men put pizza boxes in in the back of the car. They also found either a Domino's jacket or a Domino's shirt -- Anderson.
COOPER: Casey, I appreciate the update. More now on the shell casings which could prove the key evidence.
Gerard Petillo is an expert in the field. He joins us now by phone.
Gerard, I want to read to our viewers a portion of the text, this affidavit that CNN obtained. It first refers to the scene in Colorado, shooting of the prison chief, and says Hornaday 9mm shell casings were recovered at the scene which are the same brand and caliber used by the unknown suspect in the Wise County incident. Wise County is a reference to the Texas crime scene. What does that tell you?
GERARD PETILLO, INDEPENDENT FORENSICS FIREARMS EXAMINER (via phone): Well, Anderson, it tells me that they have a little bit to go on. The fact that they have the same brand doesn't really tell me much. I mean, Hornaday ammunition is sold throughout the country. You can get Hornaday ammunition anywhere.
The fact that you have the same caliber along with the other details like a similar late model vehicle tells me that they have reason for an association. And I guess moving forward, they are going to look to get the cartridge cases from the homicide in Colorado to the same location with the cartridge cases recovered from the car, and a forensic examiner will have to put them under a comparison microscope, compare the individual characteristics and render an opinion whether or not they were fired from the same gun.
COOPER: And is it a simple as that, having an expert put them under a microscope? I mean, is it true that, I mean, I've seen obviously that when a gun is fired it leaves a unique imprint on the shell casings. Is that still belief?
PETILLO: Most guns are capable of leaving individual characteristics on fired cartridge casings and bullets. And if this gun did in fact do that, it shouldn't be very difficult for a forensic examiner to determine that.
COOPER: How long would that sort to take once they got the casings together?
PETILLO: It could take anywhere from five minutes to 30 minutes.
COOPER: OK. And they do they actually have to have the physical casing or can they do it from a photograph?
PETILLO: No, no, no. They have to do the physical casings. Both cartridge casings, or all the cartridge casings from all three incidents need to be in the same location under the same comparison microscope.
COOPER: All right, Gerard, I appreciate your expertise.
Gerard Petillo, thanks for being with us.
I want to bring in Vicky Bankey. Until a few years ago she knew Evan Ebel as the troubled teen that lived across the street from her. She's joining us on the phone. Also, from her some perspective on the white supremacist angle, especially this prison gang, the 211 crew, it is the former skinhead, TJ Leyden.
Vicky, let me start with you. You lived across the street from Ebel, his father before they moved away a few years ago. You were warned about him when you first moved into the neighborhood. What were you told?
VICK BANKEY, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF EVAN EBEL (via phone): We were told that it was a kid that our kids probably should steer clear of.
COOPER: Why was that? BANKEY: There was -- there were rumors that he was into drugs, he was definitely wild. I could observe it from my house. I could see him running in and out. He and his friends would play up on the roof sometimes.
COOPER: On the roof of their house?
BANKEY: Yes, on the roof of their house playing tag or whatever. I overheard conversations that he had about drugs with his friends. I've seen him in fits of temper with his friends.
COOPER: I guess maybe it's a naive question, but I mean, did he seem capable of doing something like this, like he's suspected of?
BANKEY: I have to say when I heard it yesterday, I wasn't surprised. Yes, it was one of those kids that you hear in retrospect and think OK, the pieces have fallen into place. Why it happened to that family, I have no idea. Like you talked about earlier, his father Jack, bent over backwards to try and deal with his son's issues. He was obviously a troubled child. He did everything he could, in my opinion. He worked from an office at home to try and be around him more. He worked with him on like remodeling projects around the house, things like that. I know he tried very hard to accommodate whatever his son was going through to no avail, obviously.
Well, TJ, let me bring you in here. This gang that Ebel was allegedly involved with, what do you know about them? Are known, are they normally associated with violence?
TJ LEYDEN, AUTHOR, SKINHEAD CONFESSIONS, FROM HATE TO HOPE: Well, the organization started out in a Colorado county jail system and eventually spread into the prison system. The 211 crew as it's known but it's also known by the brotherhood of Aryan alliance, they were mostly a moderate group, but with this incident, if it's connected with them or if this is one of their members that did it, people are going to have to rethink whether to label them as moderate or extreme.
COOPER: What did 211 stand for, do you know?
LEYDEN: Well, 211 is, if you look at the letters of the alphabet, that's B-A-A. Their acronym stands for the brotherhood of Aryan Alliance.
LEYDEN: That's one of their code names.
COOPER: Vicky, did you ever hear anything about Ebel being a white supremacist?
BANKEY: Not at all. It's not something you would find in this neighborhood for sure. I know he went to junior high school in the area and its mixed Hispanic and white. I know my own daughter teaches Hispanic children so it's really not anything that we're accustomed to around here. It sounds like his prison stints have kind of, you know, broken the wheel there.
COOPER: Vicky, you said you heard him talking about drugs. Were they any specific kind of drugs?
BANKEY: Cocaine for one.
COOPER: TJ, law enforcement officials are calling Ebel former 211 gang member. I read past statements by the head of the gang task force saying once a gang member joins its group, you don't really get out in any way other than getting killed. Do you buy that? Is that kind of hype?
LEYDEN: Oh, no, I don't buy that he's a former member. I mean, lot of times this is the stuff that's for life. I got out, when you get out, you've got to prove yourself. You have got to be working with law enforcement, talk to them in some way, shape or form or are you going to be trying to get other kids out. There's no way or no evidence proving this guy's done any of that.
COOPER: They are calling -- why do you think they would be calling him a former gang member, then?
LEYDEN: Because a lot of times when a guy leaves prison, a lot of institutions basically start to refer to them as former. If they don't get in any trouble in six months, even up to a year, they basically take him off the list. They take him off the radar. A lot of times these guys come back later on. I mean, you can stay quiet for six months to a year if you're on probation or parole.
COOPER: TJ Leyden., I appreciate your expertise. And Vicky Bankey as well. Thank you for being with us. Let us know what you think about this crime. Follow me on twitter right now @andersoncooper.
Up next, a different take on the national debate over assault weapons. Nothing to do with arguments in the halls of Congress and everything to do with survival on a Georgia farm. It's a really interesting story. You wouldn't want to miss it.
Also tonight, President Obama scores a major diplomatic coup as he wraps up his Middle East tour. How he was received and release. Raw politics ahead.
COOPER: Well, the New York City affiliate of the National Rifle Association has filed a lawsuit challenging a sweeping gun control law governor Andrew Cuomo signed in January shortly after the school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut. The law strengthens the state's existing ban on assault weapons. The NRA calls it unconstitutional. And the Connecticut shooter used an ar-15 rifle in his attack. It was variations of that gun banned in New York under the new legislation.
Yesterday, vice president Joe Biden said no one's constitutional right to own guns will be impacted by taking that weapon and others like it off the streets. Not everyone agrees, obviously. In fact, while there's a perception the ar-15 is a weapon without a practical purpose. There are some people who put the ar-15 to very good use to solve a very expensive problem.
Victor Blackwell explains.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Jim Pritchard, its planting season. The past few days have been long and hard, sowing corn seed.
How many acres here?
JIM PRITCHARD, FARMER: Approximately 88.
BLACKWELL: He is done for the day. Soon, the sun will set. But by morning, all his hard work could be ruined and his seeds stolen under the cover of darkness.
PRITCHARD: One year, in two nights I lost 18 acres.
BLACKWELL: Eighteen acres in two nights. That's worth how much to you?
PRITCHARD: It wound up costing me in lost yield about $9,000.
BLACKWELL: But thieves are not the problem. What has that problem been?
PRITCHARD: Well, there are pigs root up the corn seed after you plant it.
BLACKWELL: Wild pigs, hogs annihilate corn, peanuts, beans, virtually any crop on Pritchard's 700 acres. This is evidence they've been here.
PRITCHARD: Yes, sir. That was overnight last night.
BLACKWELL: A few rows devoured. Hoof prints (ph) are in the dirt.
PRITCHARD: This is nothing. That's all there is, I'll be happy.
BLACKWELL: Some mornings are much worse. Ruined crops as far as the eye can see. These wild hogs come through this area so often they have worn a path through this field. Look at this. This is where they scrape the mud off on the pine trees. You can see it on the bark there. Look at this one. It happened so often that about two and a half feet of the bark has been scraped off.
Now, this is a national problem. The USDA estimates there are about four to five million wild hogs in America and they cause about $1.5 billion worth of crop damage a year.
Pritchard is frustrated. He's tried everything to nurture his crops.
Get it done. You need a few basic tools. You need your seeds. You need your tractor. You need sunlight and water. And apparently you need an ar-15, too.
PRITCHARD: I need a good man with a good gun.
BLACKWELL: I'm a good man, this is a great gun. He's Hal Shouse. And that is one of his six ar-15s. It is the gun of choice for hog hunters, because it's light, easy to carry and has little recoil. Hal works for 16 farmers covering nearly 100,000 acres.
HAL SHOUSE, HOGSWAT: We don't discriminate. We kill them all. Big boar, mama with a bunch of little footballs. They all catch a bullet.
BLACKWELL: His company is hog swat. That's no exaggeration. He uses top of the line tactical gear, night vision and thermal imaging to find and kill hogs.
SHOUSE: I do this as a free service to my farmers and in exchange, they allow me to bring paying customers.
BLACKWELL: $500 per customer to train these crosshairs, everyone from experienced big game hunters to preteen novices.
SHOUSE: It's a blast. It's, you know, it's legitimately the coolest thing you could legally do with an AR or any weapon.
BLACKWELL: He invited us along on a hunt so we loaded up the hamulance (ph) and hit the rough and winding dirt roads of South Georgia.
SHOUSE: I'm out five nights a week, four to seven nights a week depending on the season. You know, now, they're planting so I'm out almost seven nights a week.
BLACKWELL: Farm after farm, it seemed hogs' timing was better than ours. So we pulled into a farm and waited.
SHOUSE: We're right in the middle of a 700 acre field. We've got 1200 yards, 1300 yards in any direction of the tree line that's open. We will see them come out of the tree line. I'll have time to gear up and go at them.
BLACKWELL: While we waited, we talked about that gear at the center of a national battle. You know, when you say ar-15 and 30 round mag, that's a political hot button.
SHOUSE: Sure it is, because people have decided to make it one. You know, tragedies happen but the weapons didn't create these tragedies. Sick individuals used this weapon, this tool, and they did something destructive with it, something ugly. There's just nothing else you can say about it.
BLACKWELL: Then one more infrared scan of the field and there he was, a boar roughly 400 yards away. We all rush out and stealthily approach. He steadies his ar-15.
SHOUSE: This is a pretty average size. He's probably above 30, above 40.
BLACKWELL: For hog swat and the farmers of South Georgia, success.
The question has been repeatedly who needs this weapon outside of the military, someone who wants to kill someone else.
SHOUSE: Well, I mean, need is -- that's a big word, you know. You don't need a lot of things that you choose to use because they make your job easier. I could do this with a single shot weapon. I wouldn't be near as effective. I could do it. But I don't want to. I'm a legal, responsible gun owner. I evaluated all of the different weapons out there and I decided that this weapon is what makes sense for me and my company.
COOPER: Victor, a lot of controversy obviously surrounded the use of high capacity magazines. Could these hunters do the same job with smaller magazines?
BLACKWELL: He said yes, he can do it but he would not be as effective. And here's why. Because he says, in the hunt you just watched, there was just one boar but if there had been a sow with maybe 12 babies which is not unusual, because they can have up to 12 a few times a year, he would need all 30 rounds to fire off in quick repetition.
And there's one other thing I got to show you. It's like CSI South Georgia out here. The pigs have been back. Here's the evidence. You have hoof prints here. The pigs have been back and that means, Anderson, that Hal Shouse will be back. He says that he is going to stay in this area, cover those 100,000 acres until he tries to get rid of this population.
COOPER: All right, Victor. Thanks very much.
COOPER: One other note in the "Keeping Them Honest" category. Holding politicians accountable for letting their words get ahead of the facts. Last night we focused on Michele Bachmann. Tonight, New York congressman, Democratic Charlie Rangel. And tonight, he's clarifying an exaggerated claim he made about guns yesterday on MSNBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: There is no hunter that needs automatic military weapons enjoy the culture of going hunting. We Are talking about millions of kids dying, being shot down by assault weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: He said millions of kids. Now, "Keeping Them Honest," the number is obviously a far, far cry from that. It is more like several hundred. And while any avoidable death is a tragedy, this is not as the congressman implied some kind of deadly epidemic with millions of kids being killed.
We asked him for his comment. His spokeswoman issued the following statement.
What the congressman meant to convey is that millions of children and their loved ones have been impacted as a result of gun violence whether physically harmed or emotionally traumatized.
Words matter and that's why we do these reports.
Coming up, a horrifying nightmare to come, it's come to life for one teenager. She was in her house alone during a terrifying home invasion robbery, nearly came face-to-face with one of the thieves. She shares how she survived the frightening ordeal and got the thieves apprehended.
Also, President Obama wrapping up his trip to the Middle East, his first as president, how he may have helped the peace process, how he was received there when we continue.
COOPER: President Obama was in Jordan tonight after wrapping up a visiting Israel. But, what if anything did he accomplish there? The Israeli verdict on the visit, next.
COOPER: President Obama is in Jordan tonight after wrapping up a visit to Israel. It began with questions about just how well he would go over with the Israeli people. His relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu after all has been strained at times. The question is would people pick up on the chill at the top or warm up to the president.
We now have the answer and chief national correspondent John King tonight to tell us about it.
John, a lot of speculation about what kind of reception the president might get in Israel, how ordinary Israelis, how leaders might react to him there. How did it go overall?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, you spent a lot of time in this region so you know what seems like concrete under your feet can suddenly turn to quicksand. But, the president is going to head home tomorrow feeling pretty happy especially on the point you just raised, reception among the Israeli people. He has a very mixed reputation if you look at the polling. And I spent a lot of time talking to every day Israelis, and especially because e especially because of the Cairo speech early on, if not coming out of the box, this is the president who is going lean more in favor of the Arab and the Muslim world, maybe more in favor of the Palestinians when it comes to the peace issue.
The president's speech, all the cultural and historic sites he visited as a tourist but a tourist with a point won a lot of great headlines, lot of praise from Israeli officials. One of the Israeli radio commentator, put it this way, she said if we're this how happy we get when Obama comes, what are we do when the messiah comes. So, I think, that is pretty good receptions.
COOPER: Well, obviously, President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu have never been the best of friends. Was this visit any different than usual?
KING: These guys if they are acting, Anderson, deserve academy awards because the frost has melted. These are two men who had not only a frosty relationship but a sometimes bitter relationship in the first term. They were joking with each other, they took their jackets off, they looked casual at the Israeli state dinner. They spent a long conversation laughing and joking, very animated and engaged and smart enough to cover their mouth like this so the cameras couldn't pick up or try to read their lips what they were saying. They both worked well together.
And today, you see some evidence that this personal relationship might be helping in the working relationship. Prime Minister Netanyahu called his Turkish counterpart, Prime Minister Erdogan apologized for that incident back in 2010. The Israeli commandos killed eight Turks and one Turkish-American on a Humanitarian aid flotilla that was heading towards Gaza. And that had spoiled what was a pretty good alliance. The prime minister apologized, promised restitution so the Israeli-Turkish relationship might get back on track. And with the president of the United States, those are the key allies in a very messy region. That's a big important diplomatic feather.
COOPER: In terms of the peace process, though, between the Israelis and Palestinians, is there any sense this is going to become more of a priority for the Obama administration than it's been so far?
KING: The president said today that he can't guarantee results but he does guarantee he's going to give it good effort. Now, every American president picks up this ball at some point, Anderson, and most of them end up very disappointed. Bill Clinton spent a lot of time on it. George W. Bush in the end of his administration tried. President Obama didn't touch it much in the first term. Now he says he's going to try. But the big difference is the things that keep the Israelis and Palestinians from the bargaining table are still there.
So, the test on this question won't be today. They feel good about the conversation a month or two or three, are they back at the table.
COOPER: And the president is in Jordan today. What's the focus there?
KING: Syria. Syria. Syria. Jordan normally a key U.S. ally in trying to nudge the Palestinians on some issues, the one of the few Arab nations that has relationships with Israel, but the refuge crisis coming into this country from Syria dominated the discussions.
King Abdullah has a country with a tough economy to begin with. They've spent nearly $1 billion. They say they are approaching, Anderson, a half a million Syrian refugees and they think it will keep getting worse. So, the president promised about $200 million more. The United States is already giving quite a bit of money to the Syrian refugee crisis but he promised to ask Congress for $200 million more.
So, most of the effort was on the refugee crisis here, although Jordan has a very good intelligence service. The president and his national security team also comparing notes with the king and his team about the big questions about chemical weapons and the king's assessment of how long Assad can hang on.
COOPER: All right. John King.
KING: Thank you.
COOPER: There's a lot more happening tonight. Randi Kaye is here with the "360 Bulletin" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, authorities in Virginia are not disclosing a motive in last night's deadly shooting at the Marine Corps base in Quantico. Officials say three Marines are dead including the suspected gunman. He died of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. The incident is still under investigation.
Police in Georgia arresting a pair of teens in a shooting death of a 13-month-old child. The suspects are 14 and 17 years old. They are being held on suspicion of first degree murder. The toddler's mother says the attackers approached her, demanding money. They first shot her in the leg before shooting the child as she begged to spare his life.
The FAA is closing the control towers at 149 regional airports across the country. The move is meant to help the agency free up more than $630 million in forced government budget cuts.
And one of the biggest personalities in politics meeting one of the biggest names in basketball, Shaquille O'Neal visited New Jersey Governor Chris Christie in Trenton today. The governor shared this photo on his Twitter feed. It got a whole lot of reaction. Somebody tweeted the governor saying you guys should do a remake of the movie "Twins" together.
COOPER: Quite a photo. Randi, thanks.
Up next, incredible story of guts and survival, a teenager dialed 911 as thieves not only ransacked her house, but were actually in the room where she was hiding. Here's part of the 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do not open your door, OK? Can you tell me you understand by tapping the phone once -- that do not open the door? OK. Do not open that door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Tonight, "360" exclusive, the museum guard who let thieves in led them into the biggest art heist ever. What was he thinking? Ahead on 360.
COOPER: California girl only 15 years old already knows what it means to be scared for her life. She was home alone Tuesday afternoon. Intruders broke into her home. Thinking quickly she grabbed a cordless phone, ran upstairs into her parents' bedroom, hid inside their walk-in closet and dialed 911 for help.
Keep in mind, the intruders not only came into that bedroom to ransack it, they actually went into the walk-in closet. Here's a portion of the 911 call. It's amazing how calm she is on the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: 911 Emergency.
DOYIN: Hello, I'm home alone and somebody was knocking at the door and they just opened the window.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: He's inside?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Where are you, upstairs in the bedroom?
DOYIN: I'm inside my parents' closet.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Is anybody expected home?
DOYIN: No. My parents are both at work.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you still hear them upstairs? Just yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED INTRUDER: Bring the bucket over here.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, don't talk. Do not open your door, OK? Can you tell me you understand by tapping the phone once, do not open the door? OK, do not open that door.
COOPER: Unbelievable. Because she made that call right away, police were already waiting outside her house as the thieves tried to get into their car. Three teens are now in custody.
The brave girl is Doyin Oladipupo, I spoke with her and her mom earlier.
COOPER: Doyin, can you take us through what happened? You were at home. It was about 1:00 in the afternoon. You heard the doorbell ring. Then what?
DOYIN OLADIPUPO, HID FROM BURGLARS IN CLOSET: I just got out of the shower so I went down to check who it was, and I went into the guest bedroom to look out the window and it was someone I didn't know.
So I waited for a couple minutes to see who it was and somebody else walked and like I was kind of suspicious first, but then I thought it was nothing so I went back upstairs.
I heard the alarm system say that the window was being opened so at that point, I ran to my parents' bedroom and I went to the closet.
COOPER: What was going through your mind? I mean, you must have been incredibly scared.
OLADIPUPO: Yes, I was freaked out because I haven't -- this never happened before so I was kind of worried about like the outcome.
COOPER: So you take the phone and you go into the closet, and you hear the burglars coming up the stairs. How did you keep quiet?
OLADIPUPO: I was just talking to the dispatcher. She just told me just to be calm and be quiet and just like try to not make any like movements or anything like that, just so I don't draw attention to where I was.
COOPER: I understand you were actually communicating with the dispatcher by tapping on the phone?
COOPER: How did that work?
OLADIPUPO: She said, she asked me questions like tap once for no, tap twice for yes. So she asked me if they were in the closet with me. I tapped twice and stuff like that.
COOPER: Could you actually see the people?
OLADIPUPO: I saw them from the waist down.
COOPER: From the waist down. So were you worried that they could see you?
OLADIPUPO: Yes. I actually was really worried about that.
COOPER: I heard that you worried they might see your toenail polish? Is that true?
OLADIPUPO: Yes, because I had on bright blue nail polish.
COOPER: OK, but they didn't see it?
COOPER: As a mom, this must be, A, you must be incredibly proud of your daughter but also scared for what happened.
ADEBISI JINADU, DAUGHTER HID FROM BURGLARS IN CLOSET: Yes, very scared. Very proud that, you know, she was able to keep her calm and do exactly what the dispatcher told her to do. But I, you know, thinking about what could have been, that is extremely frightening, you know.
COOPER: Did you know your daughter was so level-headed?
JINADU: She's usually very calm, you know. She's very calm. She doesn't really react to stuff. So -- but this was something that is a nightmare, really, for anybody. So I didn't know she would be, you know, as calm as she was, you know, in the face of the danger she was in.
COOPER: Doyin, how long were you on the phone for?
OLADIPUPO: About 30 minutes, but it felt like an hour to me.
COOPER: I mean, even 30 minutes, that's a long time. That must have felt like forever. What was the moment like when they told you it was over? How did you learn that it was over?
OLADIPUPO: She told me that they surrounded the house and they got all three of them, but she wanted me to stay in the closet just in case there were more, and until the dog came I didn't get out of the closet at all.
COOPER: When you got home, what did you think?
JINADU: It was at that point when she saw me, she broke down and started crying. You know, I just tried to comfort her that, you know, it's OK, everything's fine now. And that we're all very proud of you, at least you got these three guys off the streets. They won't terrorize anybody again. I was very, very proud of her.
COOPER: You should be proud of her. It's amazing that you were able to remain so calm. Doyin and Adebisi, thanks so much for talking to us. Really appreciate it.
JINADU: Thank you very much.
OLADIPUPO: Thank you for having us.
COOPER: Amazing story. Crime and Punishment, another case has caught our eye, by now you probably heard. Nancy Grace is missing her prized handcuff necklace. She not only implicated me but also our guest Mark Geragos. Does that look like the face of a thief to you? Mark Geragos responds ahead on the "Ridiculist."
COOPER: It's the biggest art heist in history, happened 23 years ago this week. A pair of thieves duped the security guards at Boston's Isabela Stewart Gardner Museum and took off with 13 masterpieces worth an estimated half a billion dollars.
Now the thieves spent 81 minutes inside that museum. What they did inside largely remains a mystery to this day. The FBI now says it believes it knows who's behind the heist.
When it happened, suspicion quickly fell on the museum's security guards. For the first time, one of those guards is sharing his story on camera in an exclusive interview with Randi Kaye.
KAYE (voice-over): There was no trace of the thieves. Authorities got an idea of what the bad guys looked like from the two night watchmen, the only ones to see the thieves up close, but it all happened so fast. They were tied up and blindfolded within minutes. Watchman Rick Abath gave this description of the guards to a sketch artist.
RICK ABATH, FORMER GARDNER SECURITY GUARD: The guy who was dealing with me was kind of taller and skinny and wearing gold-framed like round glasses, if I remember correctly. He had a mustache. I remember before he arrested me that it looked really greasy, I remember thinking that. He was using some funky kind of wax on that thing or something like that. It was probably a fake mustache.
KAYE: But the description from Rick and the other guard didn't satisfy the FBI. Even Rick admits the sketch they produced didn't really look like either of the two men.
ABATH: I remember at the time thinking there's no way they're going to catch these people from this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's one of the frustrating aspects of this case, the descriptions that were given were very vague, very generic.
KAYE: Jeff Kelly from the FBI's Boston Office is the lead agent on this case. Without a good description and virtually no other public information about the thieves' identity, the investigators begin to focus their attention on the museum employees.
GEOFF KELLY, FBI BOSTON: These guys had a very -- had a level of comfort in that museum that really points to the fact that if it wasn't an inside job, they definitely had inside information. KAYE: Both the FBI and the museum security director are stuck on the fact that the thieves spent 81 minutes inside the museum. Anthony Amore says that is eight times as long as the typical art theft.
ANTHONY AMORE, GARDNER MUSEUM SECURITY DIRECTOR: There was a covert button like you would see in a bank and the thieves knew somehow that that hadn't been hit as evidenced by how much time they spent in the museum.
KAYE (on camera): They weren't at all concerned, 81 minutes, that the police were on their way?
AMORE: Clearly not concerned the police were coming. So how they knew that the guard didn't hit that alarm was a mystery to me.
KAYE (voice-over): But did the thieves really know the alarms had not been set off or could that be why they waited awhile to start dismantling the art? Remember, motion detectors didn't pick up the thieves' trail until 24 minutes after they entered the museum.
ABATH: Apparently, there was a half hour between -- 20 minutes between when they tied us up and when they actually headed into the galleries to start doing it. I've seen a lot of people questioning well, what were they doing. I'm thinking they were probably waiting to see if I did press the panic button. They were probably waiting to see if the cops were going to show up.
KAYE: According to the FBI, nearly nine of every ten museum heists have an inside component. Rick Abath, the guard who let the thieves in, was interrogated for days. He also took lie detector tests. He was never charged with anything, and when we talked to him, he maintained he had nothing to do with the heist.
And what about the regular night watchman who called in sick that night? Rick remembers after he buzzed the thieves into the museum, they asked him if he was alone.
ABATH: I wonder if that are you here alone because there weren't provisions for a single guard to be there. I have wondered if are you here alone meant did they get anybody to come in? But I don't know.
KAYE: But that night watchman, the one who called in sick, was never charged, either. In fact, no museum employee has ever been charged with anything in connection with the crime. Though investigators say no one has been completely cleared either.
So with no apparent connections with museum employees, who else could have been involved? Notorious art thief, Miles Conner, was already a known figure among art thieves in Boston. In 1975, he stole a Rembrandt from the Museum of Fine Arts, but in 1990, at the time of the Gardner theft, he was in jail and no known connections were ever found.
Mobster David Turner from Boston also was considered a possible suspect, with various publications pointing out the resemblance between the FBI sketch and Turner. But no definitive evidence linking Turner to the heist has ever surfaced. Boston crime boss Whitey Bulger was also rumored to be involved, with speculation he stole the artwork in order to smuggle it over to the IRA, the Irish Republican Army.
KELLY: Certainly if you're looking at Boston, which has a huge Irish population, and it's not unusual or you wouldn't be incorrect in assuming that there might be some connection to the IRA. The IRA has done it before, where they have taken paintings and basically ransomed them back for money.
They have done this in the past and because of the connection to Boston, it's not improbable. But again, like many of the other theories, there's nothing concrete that we've developed over the years.
KAYE: The Justice Department has publicly disavowed any link between Bulger and the Gardner Museum and so the search for the thieves continues. And at the same time, the effort to recover priceless works of art.
COOPER: Randi Kaye has a lot more on this fascinating story. The "81 Minutes, Inside The Greatest Art Heist In History," a special at 10:00 Eastern tonight on CNN, a little bit more than an hour from now.
Now to the mysterious disappearance of Nancy Grace' handcuff necklace. Well, that's right. She's got a list of suspects including Mark Geragos, a frequent contributor here. He fires back, next on the "Ridiculist."
COOPER: Time now for to the "Ridiculist." Tonight, we are adding the case of the missing handcuff necklace, the sequel. Not since the great Muppet Caper has the world been riveted by a daring heist.
Let me remind you how we got here. My colleague, Nancy Grace, truth seeker, dream weaver, was on this program a few weeks ago discussing the Jodi Arias trial when something caught my eye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Nancy, are you wearing handcuffs as a necklace?
NANCY GRACE: Yes, I am. Would you like a pair? I did it for you.
COOPER: I saw something shiny and then the more I looked, I was thinking are those handcuffs? They really are?
GRACE: Yes, they are and they work.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: So look, I take credit for putting her handcuff necklace on the map, but I do not take the blame for the necklace disappearing. That's right, it's gone. It's vanished, lost, perhaps stolen, and now Nancy and her team, which I can only assume is Jane Velez-Mitchell wearing a Sherlock Holmes hat, have plastered CNN Center with these flyers. Last night, Nancy came on this program to level some pretty serious accusations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, Anderson, the last time my handcuff necklace was admired on the air, I'd like to point out that you were present.
COOPER: I was transfixed by it.
GRACE: You and Toobin and Mark Geragos. You three were the last ones to admire it on air. You clearly wanted the necklace. You asked about the necklace. You showed a very unusual interest in my handcuff necklace or, Anderson, was it just -- it doesn't work, Anderson. Ask your little friend Geragos what he did with my necklace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I like how she pulled the handcuffs out of her twins. Now ask and you shall receive. Nancy grace, I bring you famed Defense Attorney Mark Geragos joining us now via Skype. Mark, consider yourself under oath for this deposition, you basically have been accused or implicated in this heist. What do you make of Nancy's comments?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let me tell you something, Anderson. This is not the first time that Nancy has made false accusations and you notice that I'm coming from Skype and you don't know from where. I have instituted an investigation.
I've got both of my top investigators looking into this, because we're going to show and I will report back with you on Monday, the results of this investigation. We're on the road right now.
We're looking into this and Nancy Grew -- I mean, Nancy Grace, we're going to figure it out and we're going to prove that once again this is yet another false accusation levelled by Nancy.
COOPER: Not since Donald Trump sent investigators to Hawaii to determine the actual birth certificate of President Obama am I so intrigued by the results of this investigation. I want to play another clip, Mark, of what Nancy said last night because she also tried to implicate me. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: For the record, I --
GRACE: You know something.
COOPER: I did not take it. Do you have any other suspects? GRACE: Don't try to throw me off the scent. Don't try to throw me off you, Anderson. I've already told you Geragos and Toobin. Toobin is too much of a straight guy to wear a pair of handcuff necklaces. He would never think to steal like you. Now, what about Geragos? Out of the three of you, I would say that Geragos would be the type to actually steal the necklace.
COOPER: I knew you were going to accuse Geragos.
GRACE: Although you're pretty daring. I mean, look at his face.
COOPER: Where does one get a handcuff necklace?
GRACE: If that doesn't scream guilt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: She basically is saying you look like a thief. How do you respond?
GERAGOS: Well, you remember that Nancy Grace, her initials are N.G., not guilty. So understand something. We're going to get to the bottom of this. I'm telling you, by Monday, my investigators are combing, combing this area where we are right now and I can't disclose the location. We will have answers by Monday.
COOPER: Now, I got to be honest. If Nancy Grace was conducting this interview with you, she would have already cut off your mic and reported you to the bar association so I'm going to leave you right now.
Mark, we'll try to check in with you on Monday. If it wasn't Mark and it wasn't me, and Nancy didn't lose them in the poker game or whatever it is she does before she goes on air every night, maybe we need to talk to Jeff Toobin.
Appreciate Mark joining us for that. By the way, Monday night I will broadcast live from Nancy's dressing room as David Gergen personally searches her couch cushions, which sounds wrong but kind of right at the same time. As the case of the missing handcuff necklace continues on the "Ridiculist."
That's it for us. Thanks for watching. We'll see you again one hour from now, a special edition of "360," a special report looking at the largest art heist in history, the $500 million art heist from the museum 23 years ago. The FBI says now they believe they know who did it. We will take you inside the crime in a special hour report. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts right now.