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PIERS MORGAN LIVE

Same-Sex Marriage at Supreme Court; Suze Orman Answers Questions

Aired March 26, 2013 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: It's your money and Suze knows best. She's here live with our studio audience.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MORGAN (voice-over): Tonight, Suze Orman answers your questions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What steps should I take right now to set myself up for financial success?

MORGAN: Investments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wanted to know where we should invest our money for a down payment so we can buy our condo the quickest way.

MORGAN: Your family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to know how to introduce the concept of saving and the discretion of money with my children.

MORGAN: Your money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do they say real estate is going up, Suze, when really reality, my house is going down.

MORGAN: And more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do I start preparing for my retirement?

MORGAN: Suze Orman, dollars and cents, and the hottest issues of the day. Like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fourteen times the Supreme Court had described marriage as a fundamental right and gay and lesbian couples deserve a fundamental right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MORGAN: Good evening. This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. I want to welcome my very special guest, Suze Orman, and our studio audience. We'd all get through tonight, including questions from our audience here and from you at home. To ask Suze Questions directly, tweet us using our show handle, @piersmorganlive, and to follow on the conversation, use my special hash tag, suzeonpml. But I want to begin with a story so many people are talking about in America tonight. CNN has been on it all day, same-sex marriage at the Supreme Court. Something Suze feels very strongly about.

And here in our audience a man who says the court shouldn't make marriage policy for the country. Ryan Anderson is the author of "What is Marriage? Man and Woman: A Defense."

Ryan, why are you so opposed to gay people getting married?

RYAN ANDERSON, AUTHOR, "WHAT IS MARRIAGE? MAN AND WOMAN: A DEFENSE": You know, I'm not really opposed to anything in this situation. I think that marriage exists to bring a man and woman together, as husband and wife, to be mother and father to any children that union produces. And that the Supreme Court in the cases that they're hearing today and tomorrow should really not cut short the democratic debate that we're having.

Citizens all across the country right now are discussing what marriage is and why it matters. And what we want to see the court do today and tomorrow is uphold our constitutional authority to have that debate and to pass laws about marriage.

MORGAN: OK. But when I asked the question why you're opposed to it, I assumed you're opposed to it. Are you saying you're not opposed to it? Are you in favor of gay marriage?

ANDERSON: I'm in favor of having the citizens have the authority to go to the ballot box and vote about marriage. And when they go to the ballot box --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: Well, hang on. Now you sound like a politician.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Vote for marriage between a man and a woman.

MORGAN: Let me -- let's make --

ANDERSON: I think that's what marriage is.

MORGAN: Let's keep this simple. Are you in favor or against gay marriage?

ANDERSON: I'm in favor of marriage between a man and a woman.

MORGAN: So you're against gay marriage.

ANDERSON: I don't like phrasing it that way. But you can phrase it that way.

MORGAN: But there's no other way of phrasing it. You're either in favor of it or you're not. ANDERSON: It's like saying you're against the square circle. I'm in favor -- I think what marriage is is a union of a man and a woman.

MORGAN: Do you believe that because, as many argue, it's to do with procreation. That basically the reason a man and a woman should be allowed to marry rather than a man and a man or a woman and a woman, is to do with their ability to procreate?

ANDERSON: I don't think it's only that. I think what it's built upon --

MORGAN: Is that part of it?

ANDERSON: That's part of it. It's based on the truth that men and women are different and complementary and that the act that unites a man and woman is the same act that creates a new life. And the reality that a child has a mother and a father and marriage is the institution that helps incentivize the mother and the father that created the child to commit to each other and then to care for that child.

MORGAN: So would you ban everyone over the age of 50 from getting married?

ANDERSON: No. And that was a great question that was asked today during oral argument.

MORGAN: Yes.

ANDERSON: And the response to that --

MORGAN: But it is a great question because --

ANDERSON: It's a good question. There's a great response.

MORGAN: People over 50, men and women, they can't procreate so do they get --

ANDERSON: Men are fertile -- most men are fertile throughout the entirety of their lives.

MORGAN: But a woman over 50 is unlikely to procreate.

ANDERSON: Right. So the marital norm still helps because if the man is faithful to his wife he's not creating fatherless children. Government is not interested in regulating my love life. Everyone is free to live and to love as they choose. Government's interested in the marital relationship because the unions of men and women --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: What about prisoners? At the moment under your logic, prisoners have a fundamental right to get married.

ANDERSON: Yes. MORGAN: Even if they're in prison and can't actually have sex with anybody.

ANDERSON: Yes, the --

MORGAN: You would rather defend a prisoner's right to get married than you would Suze Orman's right to get married to her partner.

ANDERSON: Yes. So the Supreme Court looked at these cases about --

MORGAN: Am I right? Is your answer to that question yes?

ANDERSON: The Supreme Court looked at these cases of the fundamental right to marry for prisoners and they understood again because of what marriage is, is a union of a man and a woman, prisoners have that same right partly because they come out of jail and they still have lives. It's not as if once you go to jail you're there forever.

MORGAN: But you understand why --

ANDERSON: And I think they still carry on relationships.

MORGAN: Right. You're right. Do you understand why I feel especially with Suze sitting here, an incredibly successful American business icon, who has been in a 12-year relationship with a woman she loves very deeply, I find it extraordinary that you as a fellow American would be quite happy to see a prisoner's right upheld to get married and you would be quite happy to have a principle which says it's about procreation even if people are 60 or 70 years old and can't procreate if they're women.

But you don't want Suze to have the right to marry the woman she loves. I find that bizarre but I want you to explain to her what's wrong with her.

ANDERSON: I don't think there's anything wrong with you.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: We don't want them to have the same rights as you.

ANDERSON: I think all Americans have the right to live and to love how they choose to. And we don't need government redefining marriage to make that a reality.

MORGAN: But if Suze wants to get --

ANDERSON: In all 50 states, in all 50 states --

MORGAN: But wait a minute. Right. Right. If Suze wants to get married, though, you don't want her to have the same right as you to do that. Who are you to say that? I mean, with the (INAUDIBLE) of the world and the best respect, and I understand you're not the only person in America who feels this. It's a polarizing issue. Even though it's moving very fast as you know in the polls in favor of same-sex marriage.

But I just find it odd that you want a certain right for you, but you don't want to afford it to someone like Suze.

ANDERSON: I want the right to marry to be for everyone. The question is what is marriage. I think that marriage is intrinsically, what it is is a union of a man and a woman, a husband and a wife, a mother and a father. But I think all adults should be free to live and love as they choose. They can join a religious community that perform a wedding in all 50 states, this is legal. They can join a place of employment that will give them marriage benefits in all 50 states, that's legal.

You don't necessarily need the government calling your adult relationship a marriage to live and to love how you want to.

MORGAN: OK. Suze, I've heard Ryan --

(CROSSTALK)

SUZE ORMAN, HOST, CNBC'S "SUZE ORMAN SHOW": Everything is good. I was really silent.

(LAUGHTER)

I was really silent there.

MORGAN: What are you really feeling right now? Because this is the debate laid bare. This is a guy sitting a few feet away from you who says nope, I don't want people like you to be able to have the same right to get married as people like him.

ORMAN: I have to tell you --

MORGAN: What it boils down to?

ORMAN: I feel compassion for you, and I'll tell you why. Because I know that you believe very strongly what you believe, but I also know that you're very, very uneducated in how it really, really works. That you say --

(APPLAUSE)

And I believe from the bottom of my heart that if you really, really understood why the government does need to get involved, why it does need to be legal on a federal level, if you really understood that, there is no way that you would sit there and say what you are saying right now. So I understand --

ANDERSON: Why do you assume that I'm ignorant? I mean, you --

(CROSSTALK)

ORMAN: Because you say -- ANDERSON: I just don't know. I don't assume anything badly about you.

ORMAN: No.

ANDERSON: I just think we disagree. President Obama himself has said that there are people of goodwill and sound mind on both sides of this issue. I agree with the president. And so I'm not going to call you names and I'm not going to say you're ignorant, that you don't understand, but up until the year 2000, no political community on the face of the earth had ever defined marriage as anything other than a male/female relationship.

MORGAN: Where is the American -- right.

ANDERSON: I think there's good reason for that.

ORMAN: But you have your facts down.

ANDERSON: I think there's good reasons for that.

(CROSSTALK)

ORMAN: You are really a great recorder.

MORGAN: Here's one fact. Here's one fact, Suze. Where does the American Constitution say that a same-sex couple can't get married?

ANDERSON: The Constitution doesn't, which is why the Supreme Court shouldn't say that.

MORGAN: Right. Right. But just to clarify --

ANDERSON: It's up to --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: It doesn't say that. You have assumed that that is the position that America should adopt.

ANDERSON: I think that citizens in 41 states have defined marriage as union between a man and woman and the U.S. federal government has done that in the Defense of Marriage Act. If you want to change those laws, we can have a discussion, we can take a vote, we can let the democratic process work its way out.

But I think the Constitutional question before the court right now isn't whether or not same sex-marriage is a good or a bad idea. It's whether or not citizens have constitutional authority to pass laws about what marriage is.

MORGAN: Let's get a question from someone else in the audience. This is Falon Becker. This is an interesting question. It's on the same theme. And actually it cuts to I think what Suze was about to get to, which is the economic reality never mind anything else, about this debate. FALON BECKER, AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Suze.

ORMAN: Hi.

BECKER: So I was wondering what the economic benefits are for children who are being raised by gay parents who can get married.

ORMAN: Yes. There's tremendous economic benefits and I'll get to that in one second.

And, Piers, there is also tremendous economic disadvantages to not being able to be married, which is why I said I don't think this gentleman really understands it. While it is true that every state can say that does the nine states, you can legally get married, it means nothing on the federal level.

That means what? That means we don't get to partake in estate tax. We each have to pay estate tax no matter what. It means here I am and I'm married to K.T. and I'm covered under insurance for my corporation and I want to cover her. If it's not recognized, K.T. has got to pay income tax on that health benefit. That could be $3,000 to $5,000 a year.

If we were legally married, recognized on the federal level, K.T. would not have to pay a penny. Then we have all kinds of things such as Social Security. Let's just say, K.T. never worked her entire life and now we're older, I'm going to be 62 here, I'm going to be able to collect Social Security as we get older.

As a legally married couple on a federal level, K.T. would be able to collect half my Social Security. Upon my death, she would get my entire Social Security. But not now. We don't get to participate at all.

For a child, let's just say you're in a relationship and you have children and they're legally your children, and you're staying at home with your children and taking care of them and raising them just the way that I'm sure this gentleman would like you or thinks children should be raised. You have the privilege to be able to stay at home because not everybody does.

And the money that's being brought in by your spouse who is a woman and now she dies. You can't get Social Security based on her income. You can't get the widow's benefit. There's -- so there's all kinds of things.

MORGAN: OK. Ryan, you've heard Suze there, spelling out loud and clear the key issues. It's not just about issues you raise. There are sound economic reasons why it's just unfair. Never mind anything else.

ANDERSON: So I think we can craft public policy that treats all Americans fairly without redefining marriage. So I'll give you an example. The case tomorrow before the Supreme Court on the Defense of Marriage Act, it involves a same-sex couple when one of the spouses passed away, the other was hit with the inheritance tax like you mentioned.

I'm a fellow at the Heritage Foundation for the past 15 years. We have been urging Congress to repeal the inheritance tax because the death tax is bad tax policy. And you can ask yourself this question. What if instead of being a lesbian couple, the two women in question were just elderly sisters who lived together, loved each other, had shared their lives together all their life, one passed away, the other one was hit with the inheritance tax.

Is there any reason why the lesbian couple would deserve the tax break and not the two sisters? I think this is evidence to my mind that what we can do to fix this is craft better tax policy, not redefine marriage. And this would then work for all Americans.

ORMAN: The problem is, however, right now, estate tax for most people aren't a problem because it's a $5 million estate tax exemption. So if that had happened now, we wouldn't be in that situation but how about health benefits, how about Social Security? You are dealing in an economic situation right now where it's like, are they really going to re-craft tax policy, do you really think that's possible? Do -- is that what you think is going to happen?

ANDERSON: But don't want to have to obscure -- I think these are secondary issues. The primary function that marriage serves in every society is protecting the rights of children. Everything we've discussed so far has been about adult relationships. What institution --

ORMAN: I don't know. One out of two people who get married in the United States of America, heterosexual marriage, gets divorced. Why?

ANDERSON: So how do we strengthen the message that they shouldn't get divorced.

ORMAN: The number one reason is argument over money.

ANDERSON: How --

ORMAN: So marriage is not keeping people together, sweetheart.

ANDERSON: It's not doing -- it's not doing a very good job.

ORMAN: Right. It is not doing the function that you say it is.

ANDERSON: It's hard redefine it four years ago.

ORMAN: And this isn't about children. This is about --

ANDERSON: It should be though. That's the problem.

ORMAN: No.

ANDERSON: Right? Because 40 years ago --

ORMAN: No. Because what if people don't want a child. What if this couple here, they never want a --

ANDERSON: Not every marriage have a child and be silent as a mother and father?

(CROSSTALK)

ORMAN: What if you were sterile and you couldn't have a child?

ANDERSON: And marriage is what connects the mother and the father with each other for the child. Forty years ago we redefine marriage --

ORMAN: No. Marriage is what connects the husband and the wife together as one.

ANDERSON: For the sake of connecting a mother and a father with a child. Otherwise, we --

(CROSSTALK)

ORMAN: Really?

ANDERSON: -- we can have the government out of the marriage system.

ORMAN: Audience, we have a live studio audience here.

ANDERSON: Why do we need --

ORMAN: What do you say to him?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

Really?

ANDERSON: We're in the court of this public opinion, but in America, there are lots of people who agree with me. And so we should have this conversation and not --

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: The trouble, the trouble, the trouble, Ryan, as you just discovered in this audience, is that actually popular opinion is moving very, very fast. And mainly I think a generational issue, it seems. How old are you?

ANDERSON: I'm 31.

MORGAN: Right. It's interesting to me that someone of your age still maintains --

ANDERSON: Because I think mothers and fathers are important. And I think we need to have an institution that holds up the ideal that men and women are different.

MORGAN: OK. ORMAN: All right, so --

ANDERSON: And that mothering and fathering are different phenomenon.

ORMAN: Right.

ANDERSON: And that children needed both.

ORMAN: All right. Wait one second. He can talk all about what he thinks and his belief and he is seriously in the minority, especially at the age of 30. Anybody at the age of 30, if you take polls all throughout the United States right now, they are way in the majority of like what are you people even talking about.

MORGAN: Yes.

ORMAN: What issue is this? But, Piers, more than this being what he says, mother, father, it's about two people being able to have the ability to say, I love you, and I want to be with you forever. It's about sitting at a Thanksgiving dinner and while the kids are at the table, asking the other people when did you meet, how was your wedding, how did you get married and there K.T. and I are sitting and nobody's asking us.

(CROSSTALK)

MORGAN: Well, I saw Elton John and his -- and his partner, David Furnish, they were their second baby they've now got, I've never seen two more loving parents in my life. And the idea that you, Ryan, the best one in the world, the idea that you want to stop people like Elton and David or Suze and K.T. from getting married.

ANDERSON: I don't want to stop anyone from living and loving.

MORGAN: From getting married in America in the modern era, I just find a bit offensive these days. It's not fair, it's not tolerant, it's not American.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

ORMAN: Yes.

MORGAN: Anyway, let's take a break. When we come back, I want to talk about money. I want to talk about what Wall Street's red-hot run means to the people here in our audience. I suspect they're not all calling it in like Wall Street. And remember you can tweet us using our show handle, @piersmorganlive. And to follow along with the conversation, use tonight's special hash tag, suzeonpml.

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: Another day, another record high for the Dow Jones and the S&P 500, now less than two points away from its own all-time closing high. It's always been a big week on Wall Street. Exactly what does it all mean for you here in our audience and everyone at home?

Suze Orman is back to answer all that. You can ask your questions at piersmorganlive and following along with the conversation with tonight's special hash tag, suzeonpml.

So the Dow hit 14559 today, an all-time record, smashing its own record which it set almost every other day for the last three weeks.

We should all be absolutely delirious, Suze. I can see people in the audience thinking wow, the Dow, brilliant. Did it bypass me? That's what we're all thinking. Who's making the money here? Is it more of them than us?

ORMAN: It's -- I think at this point it is more of them than us, if you define us as main street, the people possibly in this room. When you think about the people that really are not employed right now, that are barely getting by, it's not affecting them and why isn't it affecting them? Because they cashed out their 401(k)s and their retirement accounts just to get by. They aren't participating in this increase in real estate prices and the stock market.

So they don't care. Many people, however, that are employed, that are involved with the 401(k) plans, they're opening their statements and they're feeling better, rightfully or wrongfully, they're going oh, my god, I'm richer than I was a year ago at this time. When they feel better, they then do what, they spend more money which helps the economy and now here we go.

MORGAN: Let me get to Whitney in the audience, who has a very pertinent question which many people who are in the position you just described may be thinking.

WHITNEY, AUDIENCE MEMBER, WANTS TO INVEST: Well, hi, Piers. Hi, Suze. I'm Whitney and I'm 25. I would like to start investing but I want to know how can I do it and start small, you know, with not that much to invest but I definitely want something that could build over time.

ORMAN: So, Whitney, you know, there's always a time and a place to do everything. And so many times when you're asked a question how do you invest, usually a financial advisor just says this is what you do, Whitney, but a good financial advisor would say to you, well, Whitney, do you have any credit card debt? And what do you, Whitney? Do you, Whitney? I'm talking to you.

WHITNEY: You're asking me?

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

No, I don't have credit card debt. I do have like student loans.

ORMAN: All right. So what's the interest rate of your student loans?

WHITNEY: I'm going to act like that's rhetorical because I don't know.

ORMAN: All right. So here's the thing. You invest with money that you do not need. You need an eight-month emergency fund before you start investing. You need to make sure that you're totally out of credit card debt. You need to know that when you invest this money, you're not going to touch it for a long period of time. So if all that was true and you were going to invest, although I would rather see you get out of student loan debt if it was at a high interest rate before investing, I would have you do a Roth IRA if you qualified for one, put the money in a Roth and start buying exchange traded funds or no load mutual funds, where you would just do it every single month.

Buy an index fund so it buys the entire stock market just to see what that feels like. Little by little. You can do $100 a month, $50 a month. There are mutual funds that will do that.

MORGAN: OK. Excellent advice there, Suze.

WHITNEY: Thank you.

MORGAN: Let's turn to another question in the audience. I like this one. It's Marilyn and Frank. I like it because it's marital discord, really, over the situation in the property market. Today we found out that house prices are rising in America but the number of house sales is falling. So it shows that it's a rather confused market and you two are the perfect illustration of that confusion. Tell me why.

MARILYN, AUDIENCE MEMBER, HOMEOWNER: OK. Hi, Suze. Frank and I are married, we're both retired. We own a very large house and it's just the two of us, and we have a pretty significant mortgage on it. Personally I hate seeing that money go every single month to pay this big mortgage. I would like to sell the house, get rid of the mortgage and enjoy my retirement more with money that goes to the mortgage. My husband does not feel the same way.

FRANK, AUDIENCE MEMBER, HOMEOWNER: Suze, Piers, I want to keep the big house.

(LAUGHTER)

MORGAN: OK. There you have it. Suze, what would you recommend?

ORMAN: Well, now here we have the argument --

MORGAN: Don't cause a divorce here. OK?

ORMAN: Arguments over marriage. The real question would be why do you want to keep something that really is costing you money, that as time goes on, there's no guarantee it's going to appreciate, it's very possible, here we are on the East Coast, Mother Nature now is your partner. Many of these homes depending on where it is, they have been destroyed in hurricanes, in floods. You have ongoing expenses and here you are in the later years of your life, really you're both retired, why do you want to be asset rich and possibly cash poor?

Now if you tell me you have more than enough money to afford this house, do everything you want and upon your death, she would still be OK and she's sitting there saying no, I won't.

MARILYN: I don't want to be in the position of having to sell this house.

ORMAN: Why don't you just sell it? I would say sell it. If I were -- if you came to see me, I would say please, it's a house, downsize now, save the money, do things like that. But the real question is, if you died and something happened to you, or you became incapacitated, does she have enough money and is she OK with the house? Is she?

FRANK: Yes.

ORMAN: So that's why -- because -- do you feel -- and do you feel like you're OK?

MARILYN: Yes, I do. But I just -- I don't want to be paying this giant mortgage every month. I'd rather have --

(CROSSTALK)

ORMAN: I don't know. Seems to me if you were so OK you would take the money and just pay off the house and why do you have a mortgage anyway, but that's -- but really, people who are really, really OK don't have mortgages and they say the tax write-off. Are you kidding? I have four homes. I don't have one mortgage. I don't know one seriously wealthy person that has a mortgage. Really?

MORGAN: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

MARILYN: Suze, perfect. Thank you so much.

(LAUGHTER)

MORGAN: Marilyn and Frank, thank you both so much.

Let's take another break. When we come back and talk about the one word which sends a shiver down all our spines. Taxes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MORGAN: The April 15th tax deadline is just around the corner. Everyone wants the same thing, more money in our pockets. Back with me now is Suze Orman and my live studio audience, taking your questions. You can Tweet@PiersMorganLive and follow the conversation on tonight's special hash tag, which is #SuzeonPML.

Let's get straight to a question. It's about the dreaded T word, tax. Tom Viksas (ph), over to you. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Suze, should I use a regular tax person or -- you know, a CPA? Or you know, should I go out and really get my time into this thing with taxes or just somebody just normal?

ORMAN: Or do like an online program or something like that?

MORGAN: Like the Turbotax, right?

ORMAN: So do you have more than one piece of real estate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.

ORMAN: How many do you have?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two, going to be three.

ORMAN: Two going to be three. Are they really complicated, your taxes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On and off. It depends.

ORMAN: So here's the thing. I would do two things for the first time. I would get a program like Turbotax or whatever it is, and I would do my own taxes. I would then go to somebody, the same year, and I would have the other somebody do my taxes, and see how did you do on your own. If you did relatively the exact same as somebody you paid to do it, then you know next year just do it on your own.

MORGAN: Can I say something about taxes? I saw my own tax return the other day. I've only been living as a resident in America for like a year and a half. This forest of paperwork arrived. Where I come from, you get like two little scraps of paper and you're done. I couldn't believe the bureaucracy involved in a simple tax return.

Why is it like that in America? Is it time that America just reduced the amount of paperwork, bureaucracy, complication?

(APPLAUSE)

ORMAN: I have believed forever that we should have a flat tax. I understand very well that there are tax incentives when you buy a piece of real estate and you get to write off the interest. I don't think that should be. I think there are people today that can't afford pieces of real estate. And so if they have to rent, why should they be penalized because they're renting and they can't afford this and all this stuff. So I think everybody should be put in the same situation, flat tax, get rid of all these tax things, the IRS, get rid of all of it. Just do it, done.

(APPLAUSE)

MORGAN: Pretty popular. We have a question on Twitter here. This is from @Stocks2000. It says, "how much savings in cash does an average 67-year-old widow need to retire?" So a pretty wide-ranging group of people there would be affected by your answer to this. ORMAN: Here's what's very sad about this question, is that while it is true that everybody is benefiting who wants to buy real estate and do certain things by low interest rates, the people that are being hurt dramatically by low interest rates are the people who are retired today, because there is no place for them to get a decent return on their money and keeping their money safe.

Think about it, Piers. Five years ago, 200,000 dollars would have yielded you 10,000 dollars a year in a certificate of deposit. Today, if it yields you 2,000 dollars, you're lucky. So how do you live a lifestyle and do anything?

So to answer this question for this woman, it will depend not on how old she is, but it depends on what are her expenses. Does she still have a mortgage? Does she still have a car payment? Does she get Social Security? Does she not? So you need to be able to have all of the money, times it by about two or three percent, which is about the return you're going to get. And if that, after taxes, will cover your bills, then you know you have enough money.

But there isn't one simple question here, especially with interest rates as low as they are. It is a travesty what we've done to our retired people in the United States.

MORGAN: I totally agree with that. Is the retirement age changing dramatically too in America, do you believe? Fundamentally, is it getting older or younger now, the retirement age of most Americans?

ORMAN: Years ago, I used to sit and I used to say to everybody, take Social Security at 62. It doesn't make any sense to wait until you're 65 when the full Social Security age was 65. Now I'm telling people don't retire until you're 67 or 70; do not take Social Security until at least 67, hopefully until you're 70. Everything has changed.

Most people now are living until they're 85, 90, 95. My mom died last year at 97, Piers. So most people are going to spend more years in retirement than they ever did working and with these low interest rates environment, with the erosion of what happened in retirement accounts, many people not being in the retirement accounts to recoup all of this, they're not going to be able to retire before they're 67 or 70, if that. I am so sorry to say.

MORGAN: Yeah. Pretty dispiriting, for those of who wanted to go to a beach at 50. Anyway, we'll come back after the break and talk to you about Tiger Woods' amazing comeback, Cheryl Sandberg leaning in. And also I want to throw to you the fact that today the Secret Service got its first ever female director boss. Big day.

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: I had to look at it if I get healthy I know I can play this game at a high level. I know I can be where I'm contending in every event, contending in major championships, and being consistent, day in and day out, if I got healthy.

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MORGAN: Tiger Woods after reclaiming his ranking as the world's number one golfer. I'm back now with Suze Orman and my live studio audience. You have piece for Tiger Woods?

ORMAN: I love this for him. You know, what happens in life is that people fall off, you know, from their fame and then it goes along enough that all of a sudden, you're like, all right, it's time now. I think he paid his dues. He said he made a mistake. I'm very thrilled for him. I'm thrilled that he found somebody and I hope he lives a really great life.

MORGAN: Well said. I feel the same way. But -- there's a slight but. We addressed this last night. Nike quickly brought out this ad with a picture of Tiger, "winning takes care of everything," which many thought was -- particularly women thought was pretty insensitive, actually, given the indiscretions that led to his downfall at the time. What do you make of that as a marketing ploy?

ORMAN: I think that was a very, very large mistake. And I think that like many of these large corporations, they don't think about something, they just go ahead and they do it and they slap it up. I don't think Tiger had a lot to do with that, by any means. I think they are now using Tiger again because he's winning. But I think Nike was very silly that they did that.

MORGAN: I agree with that as well.

Let's get another question now. This is Brit Anderson (ph). To set this up, it's about bankruptcy. Dionne Warwick today, it was revealed, has filed for personal bankruptcy in New Jersey, citing more than 10 million dollars in debt stemming from apparent mismanagement of her finances. So if it could happen to Dionne Warwick, one of the biggest stars in American music, it could happen to anybody.

Brit, tell me about your experience and why you want to ask Suze a question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Suze. So I do. I want to talk about bankruptcy. I have a good friend right now that's going through bankruptcy. And he feels a lot of shame about it. So I wanted to ask you what's your best advice for somebody who is going through bankruptcy? How do you recover from it?

ORMAN: Here's what you understand, if there was ever a time to go through bankruptcy, it is now. If there was ever a time for you not to feel bad about going through bankruptcy, it is now. Because how many people in the United States of America are broke? How many people are going through bankruptcy? So you're not alone anymore. You're standing with a whole group of people. But here is what the shame is. Most people who claim bankruptcy once claim it twice. So if you are claiming bankruptcy, you have got to learn, because if you get yourself into that situation again, if you go out and you rack up all this credit card debt and all this stuff again, and you have to claim bankruptcy again, then I say shame on you.

MORGAN: Well said. Well said.

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MORGAN: Let's go to another question here. Lisa, you've got a question about Cheryl Sandberg.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. Hi, Suze. How are you? What do you think about Cheryl Sandberg's new book "Lean In"?

ORMAN: Love it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me, too. I stayed up all night last night reading it.

ORMAN: Love it.

MORGAN: You were leaning in there.

ORMAN: Here's the thing. I was just here at CNN a few weeks ago and I heard her speak. And if people really listened to the conversation that she wanted to have and she's having now, if they really read the book, they would understand that what she said is absolutely true. What really upsets me is that the main people putting her down are other women. And nothing gets me more infuriated when women put other women down. Like what is that about?

Women need to help each other up. Women need to be, you know, really the best cheerleader for somebody else saying great, that happened to you, I love that for you. But her points, Piers, that she makes are very valid. Think about this very quickly. I'm out; I'm at a restaurant and I see four or five men at the bar, 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon, and they've just come from Wall Street or wherever they are. They're drinking. They're out with their business partners.

You see a man and woman at a bar having a drink. What do you think? You don't think they're business partners. You think oh, I wonder if he's cheating on his wife. Or it's 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and you're really working on a program and it's two men, one walks out, you don't think anything odd of it. But if it's a woman producer and she leaves your hotel room at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, what's everybody going to think?

MORGAN: Hard working girl.

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MORGAN: I think this is a key point. Having employed many women in newspapers in Britain for a long time, it always struck me they were very, very shy about wanting to negotiate good pay rises and so on. The men would be steaming in all day long demanding this, that and the other. Women are quite tough on other women, like you said, but they're not tough enough with the men, in my experience, in a workplace. They should be more expansive I think about that.

ORMAN: What's really sad about her -- I'll just say this quickly because I'm such a fan of hers. They're all criticizing her because she got two degrees at Harvard, because she lives in a 9,000 square foot home and --

MORGAN: she's a brilliant woman.

ORMAN: She earned it.

MORGAN: Good for her. Also talking of brilliant women on the top of their game, great moment today. President Obama choosing a veteran Secret Service agent, Julia Peerson, as his Secret Service director, the first woman to ever lead the agency, coming after a year of a lot of scandal involving agents and prostitution and so on. She won't be taking any more of that nonsense, will she? Are you pleased? Another glass ceiling gets chipped away?

ORMAN: I love that. I have to tell you, I love the moves that President Obama has been making lately. I love the things that he's doing. Today is just an example and it was long, long overdue. So I'm thrilled that that happened, not only for our Secret Service but for America as well.

MORGAN: Yeah. It's a great day for women in America.

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MORGAN: A great day for Julia Peerson. Let's take another break. When we come back, we'll talk about the family. I want to talk about family finances, weddings, babies, funerals, all of it. And Tweet me your questions @PiersMorganLive.

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MORGAN: I'm back now with Suze Orman, my special guest and my live studio audience. Suze, let's talk weddings, babies, funerals. In other words, all the things that everybody gets round to or most people do at some stage in their lives. I got a Twitter question from ZanBanDabba (ph), is the Twitter handle, "how much money should I ideally spend on my wedding?"

I guess for that, you could say also, what do you plan for a baby --

ORMAN: As little as possible.

(LAUGHTER)

ORMAN: No, really.

MORGAN: But everybody wants a fairy tale, Suze. They want to have all the of the stuff.

ORMAN: All right, here we are. I did get married in South Africa to K.T. By the way, in South Africa, same-sex marriage is treated the exact same way as heterosexual -- there is no difference, whatsoever.

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MORGAN: Do you want to get married, by the way?

ORMAN: Oh, so badly here, I can't even tell you. I was saying to K.T. that if they overturned DOMA, if that happens -- because if that happens, that means in the states where it is legal, that means that all the things will apply. I said K.T., we may have to become a resident of one of those states now. Right now, we're Floridians. But I tell you, I would change and go and be a resident of New York or California just to be part of that.

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MORGAN: That's excellent.

ORMAN: But the point that I wanted to make there, so when we got married, we went to the justice of the peace and we did it. It cost us nothing. So I am so against these weddings that cost a lot of money. And they just end up in divorce a few years after that anyway.

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ORMAN: So I think get married. Stay together. If you know everything is OK, use the money, buy a house, start yourself off financially. And if you're still together five or 10 years from now, then save the money and have a wedding then.

MORGAN: Let's go now to a final question from the audience. This is from Natashia. It's a question about children and savings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Suze. As a mother, I'd like to introduce the concept of saving to my young children. And how would you suggest going about that?

ORMAN: Well, you have to first teach them where are they going to get this money that they're going to save. So, chances are, momma, you're giving them an allowance. Is that correct?

Why are you giving them an allowance?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they have to earn it. Chores, responsibilities.

ORMAN: Now, there should be certain things that they do around the house that they don't get paid for, because they're living in a house and that's what they have to do. Then you should set up something called work pay. They get two dollars if they do this, four dollars if they do this: eight dollars if they do that, and they have to work their way up the scale. They then they take that money. But here's the thing, if you make them save it and not touch it, they won't work for money anymore. It'll teach them to hate money. So let them earn money and let them do whatever with it when they're young. And then, one day, they'll see, oh, I wished I had saved.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I actually do that. When my daughter receives any moneys, birthdays and stuff, I tell her spend half, save half. That way, she at least appreciates that she has something to fall back on.

ORMAN: But, momma, here's the real question. Are you saving money for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am trying. I am trying to work hard at that.

ORMAN: Momma, listen to me, kids do not do what you say they do what you do. If you really want to have an effect on your children, especially your daughter, you have to have an emergency fund. You have to take care of yourself. Momma has to give to herself more than she gives of herself. And momma, I'm here to tell you don't do that. I can see it in you right now.

So if you really want to teach them to save, teach them to save themselves by you saving yourself, girlfriend.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much.

MORGAN: I've asked this a lot on my show in the last couple of years, as the economy has tanked almost the whole time. Do Americans just generally overspend? At what point does personal responsibility, the kind you just talked about, have to kick in with people. When I see these sales in November and everyone is rushing out spending billions of dollars. I'm thinking where does this money come from? Because I don't think most of you have this kind of money to splash around. So what is going on? Do Americans overspend?

ORMAN: Yes, Americans overspend. But I think, now, in general, people everywhere, throughout the world, are overspending, as well. I used to travel and talk to people. And they didn't have credit card debt. And they didn't have these things. And now it's rampant throughout the entire world.

I think a lot of what happened with the recession and the credit restriction, it taught people that if you don't have money, you can't buy the things that you need. But here's what's happening. People are forgetting already, Piers. They're forgetting what it was like. Credit limits are expanding again. Credit is becoming available for people to buy homes. People are buying homes again without 20 percent down.

And we're starting, once again, to get on that track of spending more money than we have to impress people we don't even know or like. MORGAN: Yes, and it's not a clever idea, as people can tell you who have lost their homes and their livelihoods.

Let's take another short break and we'll be right back with Suze Orman.

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MORGAN: Back with my special guest, Suze Orman, and my live studio audience. We've sadly reached the end of a thrilling romp through the world's financial problems, with you, Suze, as always. If I could get you to leave us with one overriding thought for all Americans tonight to think about money in a sensible way, what would you want it to be?

ORMAN: That, you know, just seriously to live below your means but within your needs. Get as much pleasure out of saving as you do spending. And to really only buy needs not buy wants. But, most of all, what I would want to leave people with is really understand that marriage equality needs to be a right for every single person in the entire country.

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MORGAN: Well said. Well said. I'd like to thank this excellent studio audience. You've been terrific. Thank you very much for the great questions we've had from you and from people at home. It's been a very lively hour. And I want to thank Suze again for the magnificent bottle of wine she's given me for my birthday, which is this weekend, which I intend to guzzle with great delight tonight, throwing all excess and caution out of the water.

Suze, thank you very much, indeed.

ORMAN: Any time, Piers.

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MORGAN: And that's all for us tonight. Anderson Cooper starts now.