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Is Victim Travis Alexander Being Put on Trial?

Aired March 28, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Brand-new controversy tonight about how Jodi is being treated behind bars. I`ll talk to a woman who`s been locked up in that very jail. She knows what it`s like on the inside.

Plus, Arizona`s controversial sheriff, Joe Arpaio, his right-hand man also joins me live to give his side on Jodi`s jailhouse blues. The very latest from inside court straight ahead. We`ll debate it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, explosive testimony in court. Is this battered woman expert putting Travis Alexander, the victim, on trial? Did Travis`s friends warn Jodi not to date him?

Plus, did Jodi`s own father sexually degrade her? Is Jodi really a battered woman? Or is she the kinky sex game player we heard in that raunchy sex call, saying she liked being degraded?

Plus, new controversy over Jodi`s migraine. Is she unfairly treated, or is jail just a big headache?

I dissect Travis`s gruesome autopsy report. How is stabbing Travis nine times in the back self-defense? We`ll debate it with our expert panel. And I`m taking your calls.

ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: Such a power differential between the two of them.

TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): I`d like you to ride my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like a horse.

LAVIOLETTE: He tells her that he`s horny. She performs oral sex on him.

ALEXANDER: I love the braids.

LAVIOLETTE: Mr. Alexander slapped her on the fanny in a sort of possessive way.

ALEXANDER: You are right. In the bath, that`s hot.

LAVIOLETTE: They had anal sex.

ALEXANDER: I`m going to get some great shots of freaking (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

LAVIOLETTE: She said she was uncomfortable, because she thought it was too fast too soon.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight: brand-new controversy over Jodi`s jailhouse conditions. Jodi claims she`s been crippled by migraines. And supporters blame harsh jailhouse conditions. But is it true?

Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who calls himself America`s toughest sheriff, at the center of many controversies, notably where he forced prisoners to wear pink. And he`s been accused of misconduct but never charged. Now, he runs Jodi`s Arizona jail. And he is calling the shots on what critics claim are tough meal and sleeping conditions. We`re going to talk to his right-hand man in a second.

But first, tonight, the defense pulling out all the stops to put the victim, Travis Alexander, on trial, suggesting the dead man was an abuser and claiming his friends warned Jodi not to date him. But was it all a lie?

Jodi Arias now admits she split Travis Alexander`s throat ear-to-ear and stabbed him 29 times. But she claims she did all of it in self- defense. So in trying to prove this vicious, vicious killing was justified somehow, her star witness is painting Travis, the victim, as an abuser who used his status in the Mormon Church to manipulate and use Jodi for sex. We warn you: this is explicit.


LAVIOLETTE: They had sex after the baptism.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What type of sex did they have?

LAVIOLETTE: They had anal sex. She told me that -- that Mr. Alexander told her that anal and oral sex were not sins or as sinful, and that the real sin was vaginal sex.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: It`s you that is sending this text message, right?


MARTINEZ: "The reason I was asking about later tonight is because I want to give you a nice B.J. And I`d like a generous facial in return," right?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: So that`s her text. Is it fair to blame a dead man who can`t speak for himself for being killed? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297.

Is this battered woman expert, the final defense witness, who may hold Jodi`s life in her hands, playing dirty pool? Is she essentially accusing the victim, Travis, of being responsible for his own death? Let`s debate it with our expert legal panel. And we`re going to start with Monica Lindstrom, a former prosecutor, for the prosecution, out of Arizona.


You know, I don`t think that she`s making him look like a really, really bad person. There are some bad facts there, especially with the e- mail to the Hughes, and the Hughes warning Jodi to stay away from him, because he`s manipulated at least one women in the past and wasn`t really nice to her. But that`s just one bad fact.

When we pile up all the other bad facts against Jodi, Travis doesn`t come out looking like a bad guy at all. She had a lot of power. The expert`s talking about this power balance. Well, she -- she`s the sexual balancer, the sexual power there that has a lot in that balance. And it kind of tips the scales towards her.

So what I see is everything the expert is saying, I don`t think it`s going to be that difficult for Juan Martinez to just turn it around and point it right at Jodi instead of at Travis Alexander.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rene Sandler for the defense.

RENE SANDLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, this case is about power and control and manipulation. And you have religion in the midst of it. You have a superior in this religious experience, Travis Alexander, over Jodi.

And so, the power, the manipulation, the subtleties, the direct e- mails, the way that he used her and manipulated her for sex is absolutely crystal clear. And this witness is going to do wonders for Jodi Arias` defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me bring in the religion thing. Because it was a major theme today as part of this character assassination of the victim, Travis Alexander.

The domestic violence expert described Jodi is a meek, vulnerable person lured into the Mormon faith by Travis, the spiritual leader. She made him look bad, describing Travis as a corrupting role model who baptized Jodi, challenged her to read the Book of Mormon, and then forced her to have oral sex with him in a parking lot within two weeks of meeting. Listen to this.


LAVIOLETTE: He`s in the priesthood of the Mormon Church. So he`s seen as -- as a spiritual mentor. He challenges her to read the Book of Mormon, and then he tells her that he`s horny, and they have oral sex. She -- she performs oral sex on him in a car in a parking lot.

It was incredibly significant. Mr. Alexander was doing the baptism. She`s got a spiritual mentor who`s telling her that the sex isn`t so bad, and they can do this. She called him a spiritual guide.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve got to buy this argument, though, that Jodi is this meek wallflower who`s so easily manipulated.

Look at her in the interrogation room. Does she have any problems with self-confidence as she does a headstand in the interrogation room just before she`s arrested or flips her hair around to get a bouncy look for the mug shot?

I mean, Jordan Rose, attorney, is this sort of like rewriting history? And unfortunately, the jury hasn`t seen a lot. They haven`t seen the headstand.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I think it`s complete revisionist history. And while they haven`t seen the headstand to show that this woman is hyper- confident, they have seen her on the stand for 19 days. And she only expressed confidence. She was not a meek person. Not at all on the stand.

BRIAN SILBER, ATTORNEY: Hyper-confident, are you kidding me? Come on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Brian.

ROSE: She is absolutely -- this is crazy. And to relate religion...

SILBER: Crazy? It`s crazy to call her hyper-confident.

ROSE: Obviously hyper-confident. I mean, this woman thinks she can get away with murder.

SILBER: This woman is not hyper-confident. She`s sitting in this courtroom mousey, quiet. Listen, don`t tell me she`s hyper-confident because she did a yoga pose in the interrogation room. OK?

You look at her in this courtroom...

ROSE: I think she`s hyper-confident, and she`s not really, really insane (ph).

SILBER: You look at her in this courtroom, and you see a woman that`s mousey, sitting there with her eyeglasses.

And here is the bottom line. This witness is not character assassinating Travis. She talks very matter-of-factly. She`s an expert in her field. She`s a pioneer in her field. And what she says makes sense.

And I`m telling you right now, it`s resonating with this jury, and to say otherwise would be to deny the reality of her testimony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll give Jordan Rose a rebuttal.

ROSE: She -- she is certainly the most effective witness that the defense has called, but it doesn`t have any relationship to Jodi`s situation. I mean, she`s sitting here talking about abuse.

SILBER: Come on. How do you hear that testimony and say that?

ROSE: You can`t possibly -- you can`t possibly...

SILBER: You`re sticking your head in the sand.

ROSE: You can`t talk about abuse in an abstract. No. I mean, because you...

SILBER: It`s not abstract.

ROSE: ... jump to the conclusion that, because her father called her fat, that she is now subject to any whim of some spiritual guy, and that somehow, that means that he abused her physically and not that she had to kill him. I mean, the jump...


ROSE: ... is monumental.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get back to this. I want to get back to this. Six inches. That`s the length of the slice of Travis Alexander`s throat. OK? So if you`re trying to say that this was justified -- and an inch and a half deep, like this. We can`t show you the autopsy photos. They are way too graphic. They`re a nightmare.

So what does a friend saying, "Well, maybe you shouldn`t date him" have to do with that? And I`ll throw that to Monica Lindstrom.

LINDSTROM: Well, like I said, it`s just a bad fact. And every case you`ve got some bad facts. You`ve got to deal with them and you move on.

But you`re right, Jane. That does not have anything to do with the fact of what happened almost a year and a half later.

There`s a lot of history there. We`ve heard a lot of testimony about what happened in the relationship. And we`re going to hear more. But there`s nothing about physical abuse from Travis Alexander other than Jodi`s self-serving words. We don`t have any other evidence.

SILBER: Respectfully...

SADLER: Eight of nine were sexually...


SILBER: ... I think everyone`s missing the point.

SADLER: ... shouldn`t date him?

ROSE: Oh, well. That`s a bad fact. We`ve got so many other facts against Jodi, especially that six-inch cut that you just pointed out, Jane. That`s pretty telling.

SILBER: Listen...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, we`re going to take -- there`s going to be many more opportunity to debate on this show. I promise you that.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to somebody who was sitting in the witness chair today in the Jodi Arias case.

Stay right there. And we`re taking your calls.


ARIAS: I was just in this fog.

I closed my eyes, I think, as the gun began to go off. Things get very foggy from there.

JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER TRIAL: "Why did you put the camera in the washer?"

ARIAS: I don`t have memory of that. I don`t know why I would do that.

STEPHENS: How is it that you remember so many of your sexual encounters, but you do not remember stabbing Travis and dragging his body?

ARIAS: I don`t know how the mind works necessarily.

The sound waves are hitting my ears, but the brain is not computing.

I remember that -- dropping the knife and screaming. But it goes blank after that. There`s a huge gap. And the most clear memory that I have after that point is driving in the desert.



ALEXANDER: I`d like you to ride my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like a horse. I need to get my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) fix, too.

I`m going get some great shots of you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I want to give you a (EXPLETIVE DELETED), too. I mean, it`s going to be like legitimate porn.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This case is so full of shockers. In a stunning start to court today, "In Session`s" own Jean Casarez was called by the defense to the witness stand. It was all in reference to the video we`re going to show you of prosecutor Juan Martinez taking photos and signing autographs for fans outside the courthouse. Here`s how it all went down today.


KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Ms. Casarez, working for HLN, went on and said that she observed a juror seeing Mr. Martinez`s fan club. In that regard, I`m asking this court, because she is present in the courtroom today, that Ms. Casarez be called forward to give testimony as to what she observed and which juror she saw.

STEPHENS: Ms. Casarez, are you present in the courtroom? Please come forward.

NURMI: You reported that you made observations of a juror seeing Mr. Martinez outside the courtroom, right?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": I did not. And I said my concern would be if a juror would see that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Today the prosecutor argued, hey, it all happened outside the courthouse. It`s totally irrelevant to the case.

Straight out to Jean Casarez. Jean, what was it like for you to suddenly hear your name called in court and have to stand up, walk up there to the witness booth and actually testify?

CASAREZ: Well, when I heard the judge ask if I was in the courtroom and if I could step forward, I would never disavow what a judge is asking. And so I went and I was sworn in, and I took the stand.

I have never testified before in a courtroom, and I can tell you, it is a very surreal experience. Because you realize the seriousness of what you`re doing. You have taken an oath. And you realize that every question is vitally important, for your listening skills to know exactly what was asked, and for you to say precisely the answer of which you have been asked. You don`t want to ramble on the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It must have given you sort of a new perspective on trials in general.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve covered them for so many years.

I remember, I was subpoenaed once during the Michael Jackson molestation case. And it was kind of a similar thing. You know, I had gotten some video, or there was video involved. I was hit with a subpoena. It was, like, "Oh, my gosh!" It was just such a weird experience. I was never actually called, but it gave me a totally different perspective of what it`s like to be involved in a trial.

CASAREZ: Yes, it sure does. And this happened very quickly. And I knew that the defense attorney was mistaken in what he thought I had said, so I believed that I should clear it up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, fascinating, fascinating development. Thank you so much, Jean Casarez.

Now, you were in court today. One person who was not in court today, Jodi Arias`s father. Now, we did see him in court early on in the trial. And we`re going to show you a little video of him in a second. He was there during the first week that Jodi was on the stand, and then he left. There he is. There`s dad, Jodi Arias`s father. We know he`s a restaurant owner and that he is still married to Jodi`s mother, who has been religiously in court every single day, along with her twin sister.

Listen to this domestic violence expert for the defense talk about Jodi`s very strange relationship with her father.


LAVIOLETTE: When Jodi was in second or third grade, she told her dad that she had a crush on a little boy. And they drove by the park. And her dad rolled a window down and screamed at the little boy, "You want to -- you want my daughter? I`m going to go home and get my toy," which was a gun.

He would talk about her boobs being too small, that her friends had a smaller booty than she did.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s true. Certainly not the best parenting I`ve ever heard of. But why is it that these defendants always throw their parents, their parental units, under the bus? Remember when Casey Anthony threw her dad under the bus? Claimed he sexually abused her when she was a child? It`s also happened with the Menendez brothers. It seems like this is almost cliche.

I want to go to Marjorie Gilberg, executive director of Break the Cycle. This is a very serious case with very serious issues. Some people feel that this domestic violence expert, this woman on the stand now, Alyce LaViolette, is basically almost making a mockery of women who really are battered. But, she`s also being very articulate and very persuasive. What`s your take?

MARJORIE GILBERG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BREAK THE CYCLE: Well, she`s clearly an expert. She knows what she`s talking about. The thing is, abuse looks different in different situations. There are -- there`s sexual abuse. There`s physical abuse. There`s emotional abuse.

And what she was really talking about, this power and control dynamic, that`s where you really have to get the answers to find out who was in charge of this relationship, to find out what really happened both throughout the relationship and on the day of Mr. Alexander`s death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, here`s the thing. They did have a kinky relationship. But there`s evidence that she enjoyed it. She has a text saying, "I`d like a well-deserved spanking, please." She also talks about wanting to deliver some of the very sexual activities that she`s later complaining were abusive. How can you have it both ways?

And I want to give you a chance, Marjorie, to answer that. But we`re going to take a short break. And on -- throughout this hour, we`re going to try to answer that. Because we`ve opened the door into this secret world that is very common but nobody likes to talk about except when they`re reading "Fifty Shades of Gray." That there are these kinky relationships that people have. Very common.

On the other side, we`re taking your calls. And we`re going to get into some of the details of that kinky, kinky relationship. Was she an abuser? Was she abused? Or were they just two people having a kinky relationship?


ARIAS: Can we do it without a trial or does there have to be a trial?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s something that you can discuss with the prosecutor. I`m on the phone with him pretty much every day, giving him updates.

ARIAS: What`s his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s Juan Martinez. He`s the No. 1 prosecutor.




MARTINEZ: I thought you said the relationship with Mr. Alexander was stressful.

ARIAS: Some of the sex wasn`t.


ARIAS: Some of the sex wasn`t.

MARTINEZ: So you did enjoy, then? Is that what you`re telling me?

ARIAS: At times I did.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many developments, Jodi over her migraine enough to appear in court today.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Lisa, Ohio. Your question or thought. Lisa, Ohio.

CALLER: I just have a comment, Jane. I wanted to say that Jodi was lying about her migraines, in my opinion, but I bet Travis had a headache when he was shot in the head and she slashed his throat.

And then today, she wants to complain about the time that she has to go to court. Well, Travis doesn`t have that privilege.

It`s all about control. She`s in control with her little headache. She admitted to killing him. She planned it, and now she`s planning on getting away with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that you`re very articulate in your feelings. And I hope that some of that same passion is brought into the prosecutor`s closing argument. Because I feel like we`ve kind of lost track of what this case is all about as this defense case just sort of goes on and on and on.

And, you know, Jodi has thrown her dad under the bus. Now mom is taking some hits. Jodi`s mother, who`s been in court every single day religiously, along with her twin sister, is wearing a domestic violence pin in court today. And she had to look down the whole time as this expert witness for the defense testified that most of Jodi`s problems stem from -- who else, mom -- physical abuse, stemming from childhood. Listen.


LAVIOLETTE: I learned that, in Jodi`s family, there was a certain amount of physical discipline, some which I would consider went over the line. When you leave welts on a child -- and that was information I was given, that they were hit with spoons. That her brother, Carl, feels that he`s very impatient and that was something -- and too strict and too harsh, which was sort of confirmed by his -- his fiance at the time that I read it, with their own children and that he considered he had gotten that from his father.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Selin Darkalstanian, you`ve been in court. We`ve talked a lot about the suffering of Travis Alexander`s family having to listen to all of this talk about how their brother, who`s not here to defend himself, was abusive, which of course, they consider a lie.

But also, the defendant`s family, I mean, how humiliating does this have to be for the mother to sit there as her daughter, through a domestic violence expert, basically attacks her?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: What`s interesting, Jane, is that all these days in court, we`ve been sitting in that courtroom for three months. Jodi doesn`t ever really acknowledge her mom. She doesn`t turn around and smile at her mom or even acknowledge her presence.

She -- we know that they`ve had trouble in their relationship. She`s been there supporting her every single day in court. She sat there listening. She has a Mickey Mouse journal that she keeps on her lap. You can`t see it on the camera, but she has a Mickey Mouse journal, and she writes in it, her mother. She takes notes, a lot of notes. You`ve got to wonder: is that for a book or is that something else or is she just writing to keep herself busy? Because there`s so much humiliating content about her family being brought out.

But it`s interesting. Jodi and her mom, they don`t acknowledge each other. And her mom keeps writing in that journal, in that Mickey Mouse journal she has.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I would assume that maybe she has some plans. You never know. She could be writing a book, for all we know.

But it may also something to do when you`re enduring a mental torture to see your own daughter on trial and she attacks you and attacks your husband.

Tonight on NANCY GRACE, Jodi Arias caught on tape, brand-new, never- been-seen footage of Jodi Arias interrogated by police. Watch the accused killer spin a web of lies as she denies any involvement in Travis Alexander`s death.

And on the other side, ore debate about this expert witness. Is it fair to the victim?


ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(speaking): Should have at least done your make up Jodi, gosh.




ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DEFENSE WITNESS: She said (inaudible) learned about giving up the things I want for somebody I love.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: I thought you said the relationship with Mr. Alexander was stressful.

JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Some of the sex wasn`t. When he (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face and throws candy (ph) and then he walks away without a word, it kind of feels like I was a prostitute.

You are amazing. You make me -- seriously, you make me feel like a goddess.

JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jodi was Travis` dirty little secret.

ARIAS: Why do you kiss Jodi in the dark and act like you guys aren`t together in the day time?

LAVIOLETTE: She thought it was too fast too soon. But she didn`t exactly know how to stop it.

MARTINEZ: How about when you cut his throat, were you crying then?

ARIAS: I don`t know.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: The defense case and the final witness in full swing today. But yesterday, everything came to a screeching halt because the defendant, Jodi Arias, claimed she had a migraine. All right.

And then a friend of the family, the Arias family complained about her jailhouse conditions claiming that she had to wake up at 1:00 every morning.

Well, the controversial sheriff, Joe Arpaio is the man in charge of Jodi`s jail. He`s known as America`s toughest sheriff. He has been in the middle of a zillion controversies. His so-called trademark is making inmates wear pink. Reports are Jodi and other inmates only eat two meals a day, sometimes more than 12 hours apart.

Listen to Sheriff Joe Arpaio.


SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY: There`s a lot of demonstrators out there. We are probably right now in the process of bringing them into the jail so they can get a free baloney sandwich.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we have the right-hand man for Sheriff Joe Arpaio with us tonight, Sergeant Brandon Jones of the Maricopa County Sheriff`s office. Thank you for joining us sir out of Phoenix, Arizona. Let`s get right to it.

Jodi Arias` supporters, a family friend claims she has to get up at 1:00 in the morning and that, of course, it`s not until 10:30 sometimes your time before she has to appear therefore it`s unduly harsh. They also complained about her meal schedule.

But let`s start with the hour. I mean what time does she have to get up and what happens after that, sir?

SGT. BRANDON JONES, MARICOPA COUNTY: Well, first off, Sheriff Arpaio loves you, loves the show and wished that he would have been here but regrettably. He wasn`t able to attend.

On your question, she gets up anywhere between 3:00 and 4:00 is when we generally wake up all the inmates to get them ready for court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, 3:00 and 4:00. And so that`s four -- let`s see, 5:00, 6:00, 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00. What happens for the next six hours?

JONES: Well, she -- we wake them up about like I said between 3:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m. She gets up, takes a shower, gets dressed, gets ready for court. And then we`ll go down to our transportation center. She`ll be bussed down to the courthouse here where she`s appropriately put in the proper holding tanks in preparation for her court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what do you make of the complaint that well, she gets migraines because of the harsh schedule and as well, the meal schedule. Now apparently -- I have heard this many, many times that each one inmate gets 2,600 calories a day. And I said my gosh, I`m 5`4"; if I ate 2,600 calories a day, I would be putting on some pounds. That`s a lot. So I don`t think anybody is in danger of starvation, that`s for sure behind bars.

But what about the schedule because people can get low blood sugar -- apparently, they normally get fed early in the morning and then late at night. But you have changed it a little bit to accommodate Jodi Arias?

JONES: Well, we haven`t changed it to accommodate Jodi Arias, no. Sheriff Arpaio has recognized the need for all trial inmates to be fed during the day. And he`s instituted a program where they actually now get an extra snack lunch, if you will -- a snack for lunch. And all that consists of is a Hoagie roll or a bread roll with some peanut butter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So, basically, what you are saying is nothing to see here. She`s treated just like every other inmate. And they may not be happy with it, but that`s what happens when you go to jail.

JONES: Correct. Yes. She`s treated just like every other inmate. There really isn`t anything here. We are feeding, again, the sheriff we are feeding her an extra sack lunch. Just a little snack, if you will.

As far as the complaint that you mentioned from the family, her waking up at 1:00 in the morning, inmates are free to go to bed and wake up whenever they feel appropriate. We don`t go to their doors to wake them up for court until 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. If she gets up at 1:00 in the morning, that`s mostly going to be on her doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what I heard is that there`s really no clocks behind bars so that you may feel like you are getting up earlier than you actually are.

JONES: Right. It`s very easy to lose track of time. You know, an inmate in custody doesn`t have a watch. They don`t have a clock on the wall. They don`t have anything that can go off other than television. And television we don`t turn on in the morning that early. So she`s just pretty much going off of whatever time she thinks it is in the morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you and when Sheriff Arpaio gets better, we`ll have him on. We`d be delighted to.

So many people obsessed with this trial. Citizens who go into court to watch the trial they are not buying Jodi`s excuse for canceling court yesterday -- namely that she had a migraine headache. Now, we talked to one court watcher who definitely does not believe Jodi`s headache story. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s interesting that she was on the stand for something like 18 days and never had a migraine. But has migraines now. I don`t know. She tells so many lies that the problem is I think a lot of people don`t believe anything she says now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it with our expert legal panel. Is she faking it or did she really have a migraine? I know that nobody can know for sure. We are not in her head.

But given everything we know about Jodi`s history and the fact that she was on the stand for 18 days and didn`t seem to have a migraine then, what do you make of it? Let`s start with Jordan Rose for the prosecution.

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Look, she`s in jail. She`s in jail. The conditions are as they should be in jail. She`s not at a hotel. The idea that Jodi, all of a sudden developed migraines when there`s no evidence that Jodi ever had migraines and like you said Jane, she didn`t have a migraine the entire 19 days she spent on the stand. So it`s very hard to believe that she all of a sudden developed this condition that`s a real condition. Maybe she had a headache. Maybe she was overtired. But this is not because of Sheriff Joe and his jail situation because this woman is in prison and --


RENE SANDLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nonsense. Jordan, that`s nonsense. When you are in the midst of trial and the midst of battle -- I have gotten headaches where I have to take a break as a lawyer because the stress is just insurmountable. So for this woman to be on the stand like that, you don`t know her medical history. Clearly she was impacted by something and needed a break. It`s not unreasonable.

BRIAN SILBER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, for everyone here that wants to see her get convicted, don`t you want a clean conviction? Do you want it just to come back on appeal because the defendant was sick and couldn`t participate with her lawyers in her defense? Think clearly. Stop being blinded by your hatred for this woman.

This is about a trial in the legal system. And if we don`t care about it, then let`s forget about the trial. Let`s just hang her on the jail steps. What are we doing here?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have had my hair colored three times since this case started. I understand it`s a death penalty case. Monica Lindstrom, former prosecutor, but if everything is indulged, is there a point where it gets so confusing that you can`t remember what the prosecutor said in his opening statement? I mean --

SILBER: Well, maybe if he asked less questions. I mean this trial is dragging on a lot because of him and the dragging on about harping on all these extraneous issues instead of getting to the point. How long did his cross-examination last? We were discussing how many days it went on for. He could have summed that up a lot quicker.

SANDLER: Absolutely.

SILBER: The state and the prosecution is as responsible for the length of this trial as the defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our defense attorneys are being a little chattier than the prosecuting side. So Monica Lindstrom --

SILBER: Because we`re right. We`re right and they know it. They don`t want to see this come down from an appeal --



ROSE: They are going to be comprehensive.


ROSE: Both sides are going to be comprehensive in their questions.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Monica is too polite. That`s ok -- we`ll -- Monica, give us your ten cents.

MONICA LINDSTROM, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Everybody is right. You know, she needs to be given a break every once in awhile because we don`t want this coming back. We want no issue for appeal whatsoever. We want it to be clean.

And in the grand scheme of things, so what, we took an afternoon off, not a big deal. If she`s feeling ill, if she`s not feeling well whether it`s a headache or it`s a migraine or whatever it is, give her the break so we don`t have it coming back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, we`re going to go to Betty in Texas. She`s got some opinions. Stay right there.


MARTINEZ: What you are telling us under your scenario is that in 62 seconds, you get body slammed, you do whatever you do, but you get away. You run down the hallway, you go in the closet, you grab a gun, you back up, you shoot Mr. Alexander. After you shoot Mr. Alexander, you pick up the camera because you said it`s a possibility. And he`s already down the hallway with his throat slit. Right? That`s what you said happened?




ARIAS: He started shaking me and said (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. Then he body slammed me on the floor at the foot of his bed. He said don`t act that that hurts. He (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and kicked me in the ribs. He kicked me again. To block his foot, it clipped my hand. Hit my finger.

At the beginning of March, 2008 we were driving together to a tax seminar. We began to argue. The argument escalated and then he reached his right hand over to hit me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was she really abused by Travis Alexander or is she making it up to try to save herself from getting lethal injection? She made no mention of any of this. She never called the police. She didn`t ask for a restraining order. She didn`t write about it in her journal. But this current defense witness, the battered woman expert, is saying well most women don`t call police. Most women cover up for their abusers. Most women reconcile with their abusers.

So let`s go out to the phone lines. Betty, Texas. Your question or thought -- Betty.

BETTY, TEXAS (via telephone): Well, hi, Jane.


BETTY: I have been watching this. And I just want to say over 30 years ago, I was in an abusive relationship. I moved within ten blocks of where he lived, where we were living at the time. My question is this. She had to travel 1,000 miles to get away from Travis, never heard anybody say that he went to see her. Why didn`t she leave him alone if he was so abusive?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to Marjorie Gilberg, executive director of Break the Cycle because that`s an excellent question. It`s not like they necessarily had to live in the same town. I mean she drove often, a thousand miles for this alleged abuse. What are your thoughts?

MARJORIE GILBERG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BREAK THE CYCLE: I think that it`s a complicated situation. If it is an abusive relationship, in either direction, the dynamic is such that often there`s love between those two people. And you want to please the person who may even be abusing you. So it`s likely, if she did feel that she was, you know, controlled by him in some way, that she felt compelled to do whatever it took to please him. So she would drive 1,000 miles and she may go way out of her way and do things sexually that she didn`t want to do and all kinds of things in order to please him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean, I`ll say one thing. I think this has been good for the issue of domestic violence, even though everybody says she`s making a mockery of it. I think we have all had a chance to think about it and learn a lot about it.

And Jean Casarez, you have covered so many trials. I always believe in the law of unintended consequences. If, in fact, we learn about this issue that would in essence be a good thing, even if it`s to debunk her claim. We are still learning about how domestic violence works, what it is, what it isn`t. We are learning -- we`re learning patterns, we`re talking about it, we`re hearing about this -- this expert who talks about how 90 percent of communication is nonverbal. And how there`s often conflicted feelings. Even if you don`t buy her story, we can still learn from this.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You are so right. You are so right. I mean I`m learning terminologies I`ve never heard of before. And I said this before, it`s like we are all in a college course right now. And it is fascinating to listen to and think about.

And when I look at the testimony today, one thing it does do for the defense, it substantiates some of the things -- many of the things that Jodi Arias testified to and I`m talking about the e-mail from Sky Hughes and Chris Hughes to and from Travis Alexander. That substantiates things Jodi testified to on the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I mean we just lay it out there and we see where the chips fall. But I have to say that I have learned something watching this case. And again, that doesn`t mean that I buy her story whatsoever. I mean she`s a pathological liar. But I think that in an odd way, maybe that would mean in some way that -- I just hope, I hope in some way, shape or form -- Travis did not die in vain. That is my hope.

On the other side, we are going to get back to Travis, the victim, and what he went through and what he experienced -- the pain, the suffering in those 29 stab wounds. I`m going to demonstrate something on the other side.


MARTINEZ: Isn`t it true that she discussed thoughts, feelings conversations associated with the trauma in the "48 Hour" interview?


MARTINEZ: So, again, that speaks against what`s in number one, doesn`t it?

SAMUELS: I`m sorry. I don`t see it that way.

MARTINEZ: Right you wouldn`t see it that because you have feelings for the defendant, right?

SAMUELS: I beg your pardon, sir.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: The autopsy report shows that Travis Alexander suffered 29 stab wounds. So let`s break it down. We know nine stab wounds were to the back.

DR. DAVID WARUNEK, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: The series of puncture wounds, nine total in a cluster, and they are sharp force trauma. It seems like it would be a very rapid progression.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nine times to the back. Does that lend itself to an argument of self defense?

WARUNEK: It would not appear that there was any self defense occurring at this point in time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The major wounds are the slitting of Travis Alexander`s throat, and the major stab to his chest. But there are other wounds to his frontal area.

WARUNEK: The two-inch incision at the lower right chest, a one-and-a- half inch oblique incision over here, two shallow incisions, measuring one- and-a-half inch on the right shoulder here and here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you picture a 5`4 woman doing all this within 62 seconds?

WARUNEK: You would be hard pressed to inflict that number of injuries in that period of time. You have wounds to the stomach, to the chest, to the abdomen and to the back. What you have to take into a factor here is that it implies that the victim would be standing still and not moving around or not trying to struggle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The number, the extent of this attack when you break it down it really hits home.

WARUNEK: The combination of these injuries gives us a picture of life-threatening and potential life-ending situation.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it was life-ending. Let`s debate it with our expert panel. How can you stab somebody nine times in the back, and slit his throat ear to ear in self-defense? Let`s start with the defense because that`s a tough question, Brian Silber.

SILBER: It is not that tough. Let me explain this to you. Everybody has their eyes focused on the wrong thing. This defense is not going for the not guilty verdict. They`re going for the manslaughter, second-degree murder verdict, because here is the difference, murder one is premeditated. Murder two is a passion crime, and the difference is the death penalty and the amount of time that you will serve in prison.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quickly for the prosecution, Jordan Rose.

ROSE: She premeditated. She brought the gun, she brought the knife. We have proof of this. That`s just a non-issue here. She is crazy, she should have pleaded insanity, and any of her attorneys probably advised her of that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to take a break, nine times in the back -- on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is criticism that we`ve lost focus in the case and that everybody is talking too much. Let`s go out to our senior producer Selin Darkalstanian who is there in the courtroom every day. Who has talked to most?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Definitely, the defense team. Remember, the prosecution presented their case in nine days. We just finished day 39 of this case which means the defense has taken three times longer than the prosecution in presenting this case. I don`t even remember what the prosecution`s case was at this point because it was three months ago. It`s just -- they`re lost in the detail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s why we went into that re-enactment because I wish they could do a re-enactment or an analysis of the autopsy using a dummy in court. They need to do that.

It is -- we`ve got to worry about justice here.

Nancy Grace -- next.