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Segregated Proms; Hillary for President?; Official State Religion?

Aired April 4, 2013 - 22:00   ET



NARRATOR: Tonight, you know the news. Now it's time to get to THE POINT with CNN's Margaret Hoover.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I spent four years in Washington in government service, including two years in the White House. I wrote a national best-selling book about how to save the Republican Party.

NARRATOR: Donny Deutsch.

DONNY DEUTSCH, CHAIRMAN, DEUTSCH INC.: I'm chairman of Deutsch Incorporated, which is one of the world's top ad agencies. I'm the author of two books, "Often Wrong, Never in Doubt" and "The Big Idea."

NARRATOR: Rick Reilly.

RICK REILLY, AUTHOR: I'm an ESPN columnist, essayist and author. I have been covering the world of sports for more than 30 years. Life is just like sports, only with less padding.

NARRATOR: Jason Taylor.

JASON TAYLOR, FORMER PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER: I played professional football for 15 years. I played for the Miami Dolphins, as well as the Washington Redskins and the New York Jets. I also majored in political science and criminal justice.

NARRATOR: And Rikki Klieman.

RIKKI KLIEMAN, ATTORNEY: I was named by "TIME" magazine as one of the top five female trial lawyers in the country. And I'm the bestselling author of a bestselling book called "Fairy Tales Can Come True : How a Driven Woman Changed Her Destiny.'

And I believe that strong women should be helping women all the time.



HOOVER: Hello, everyone. Welcome to THE POINT.

You already know today's headlines now, so now we're going to get to the point of each story.


DEUTSCH: Yesterday, a FOX commentator said that the firing of the Rutgers basketball coach was a sign of the, get this, wussification of America.

And to me wussification is they still haven't fired the A.D. or the president of the university.

TAYLOR: Connecticut just passed America's toughest gun laws. My question is and I'm wondering a little bit, is the NRA really winning in all of this?

REILLY: Guess what just came out in a poll? For the first time in American history, what are people finally in favor of in this country? Guess?

HOOVER: Lizard people?

REILLY: Smoking pot.

KLIEMAN: And, in Georgia, there is a high school that has segregated proms, two proms. How is that possible in 2013?

TAYLOR: It's ridiculous.

HOOVER: We're going to get to all that, but instead we're going to start with our top story of the evening, which is a story about white supremacy.

As we all know, we have seen this bubbling up, the white supremacy movements in this country and the question is, are white supremacy movements becoming more dangerous today?

Rikki, I know you have spent a lot of time on that.

KLIEMAN: I think they are becoming more dangerous today for two reasons.

We white supremacists in the prisons. We have white supremacists outside the prisons. Outside the prison, white supremacists, just like any other hate group, have use of the Internet and social media. That was not true when we heard about these groups back in the '80s. Inside the prisons, these are gangs that are racially segregated, like blacks, like Hispanic gangs used to be in the prison.

Some people still are, some aren't. But when you segregate the Aryan Brotherhood, they have more power than you can imagine still inside and also contacting people outside.

REILLY: Right. The prisons have becomes sort of breeding grounds for these Aryan gangs, right?

KLIEMAN: No doubt.

REILLY: You want to get scared, go to this Web site called

I went there today. They have 130,000 registered members. It's all about white supremacy. I think it's growing.

HOOVER: So, on background, what we're of course referring is this slaughter of the DA in Kaufman County, Texas. He and his wife were slaughtered at their home just a few months after the chief prosecutor of the same county was slaughtered. He had been saying before his death that they had made a dent in the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas recently in prosecutions.

Rick Perry today put out a $100,000 dollar reward for any information leading to the arrest of that slaughter. And, in Colorado, just a few weeks ago, the chief of prisons was slaughtered at his home. So it seems as though, you know, nobody knows for sure. Nobody wants to say. But the fingers are pointing at the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas.

DEUTSCH: I think, Rikki, first of all, you bring in a great point. The Russian mob, any horrible group has more power because they got this.

The thing to me tells me that they're going to be scarier than ever, to me, a group that says whites are better than blacks and Jews is about as backward-thinking a thought that you could have in the universe. As we keep getting more and more progressive as a nation, gay marriage, as the nation becomes less white, whites are going to be the minority in the next two decades, they're going to get more and more and more entrenched.

The world is moving away from them. The further it moves away, the scarier they're going to get.

TAYLOR: I think as you talk about the breeding ground, they're kind of incubating this stuff in prisons. I think the way we're locking people up for their crimes, the way they're punished inside the prison walls and how it's segregated and you have the blacks and the Hispanics and the whites and they become so powerful, one of the ironclad rules for getting into the Aryan Brotherhood -- or the Brotherhood in prison is you have to kill a black or Hispanic.

That's part of their deal in prison. And there is no getting out of this gang. It's festering more and more in prison, the way they're treated, the way they're allowed to grow these gangs and create so much power behind these walls that once they get out, they're making warnings now. When we get out, we're going to get back at you. We're going to make a big dent in society.

And the crazy thing is there's enough people in this country, still, and it's sad to see, that still buy into this hate.


TAYLOR: It's ridiculous.

KLIEMAN: Well, it is. And also I think that something happened that really frightens me. When you have a United States attorney that is appointed by the president of the United States who decides that he or she would resign from a case out of fear...

REILLY: Happened today.

KLIEMAN: ... that's a bad thing. That's like saying we prosecute bad people because they're bad. But wait a minute, if they get too bad, we're too afraid to prosecute them? That is really shocking.

DEUTSCH: I will tell you the other thing that is going to continue to give them heightened awareness.

I'm going try to say this the right way because it's repulsive. White supremacy sells on television. It is something that stops people. If you notice this constant documentary? It is documentary after documentary and it's constantly specials on this network and every other network.


REILLY: Doesn't it raise awareness?

DEUTSCH: Yes, and that's the problem.

I actually -- no, no, when you said there's a Web site out there with a hundred -- I was going, ooh, now there's more people that are going to that Web site.


HOOVER: But everybody knows that...


HOOVER: ... Web site.

DEUTSCH: I'm just giving you an example. The more you put it out there, the more you start -- we have to do a job. But it's good television. And that disgusts me and scares me.


REILLY: But the reason I said it is because...


DEUTSCH: No, I'm saying that's in their favor. That's all I'm saying.

REILLY: I don't think people realize this concept of if you see something, say something? Why can't this happen for white Aryan -- if you see that almost all of them have a cross with the number 14 on it., almost all of them wear an 88, which has to do with "Heil, Hitler."

If you see someone with those tattoos and you notice suspicious activity, say something. We need to be more aware, not less.


TAYLOR: People are going to be way too scared to say anything. When you have police officers getting killed in their homes, when you have state attorneys and people that are pointing to prosecutors and put them behind bars or attorneys stepping down from cases, you can't expect the general public to step forward.


REILLY: You can call anonymous lines.


TAYLOR: People are afraid to talk about it, period. It's very dangerous.

DEUTSCH: Speaking of threats, North Korea again pointing missiles. The new one is yesterday they warned the moment of explosion is approaching fast.

They moved their median missiles to the East Coast, can hit Guam, can hit Japan. I never want to minimize any type of threat. But in the world we live in right now, in this post-9/11 world, to me, talk about empty. Talk about -- this is just one more -- it's a negotiating chip. When are we going to stop with the bulletins, nuclear threat, nuclear threat?

It's not a nuclear threat. Am I crazy, Margaret?

HOOVER: No, I don't think you're crazy at all.

Look, you have a new government in North Korea, an untested leader. He's 27, 28. Actually, Rick was pointing out we don't actually know how old he is. But a new government in Japan, a new government in China, and a new government in South Korea.

Clearly, what he's doing -- I agree with you. I think it's Kabuki theater. What we have seen is while they have moved their military installations over to the east coast, there hasn't actually been a serious heightening of military action that coordinates with the military rhetoric.

All the analysts are saying, eh, you just -- you don't see more troops on the DMZ. You don't see other movements. They also have a national celebration coming up on April 15.


KLIEMAN: We can't do nothing. We have to take it seriously enough that there is an appropriate response. We can't ignore it, even if you might think that it's all bluffing. REILLY: I do think it's all bluffing. I spent the day not long ago in NORAD, the underground facility that -- if a barbecue blows up in China, these people know it.

They have an incredible system for anything that launches. And while we were sitting there, we were around the table. And the red button was right here. And they faked us out and pretended there was a North Korea missile attack. And they had the thing shot down in like three minutes.

It didn't even get out of the city limits. By the way, they don't even have a missile that could reach Hawaii. They barely can reach Alaska. And now experts are saying those missiles they paraded down Main Street in Pyongyang the other day were probably fake done by a set designer. Look at these things. I can't tell, but they say they're fake.


DEUTSCH: Rick, it's interesting you used the word set designer.

I think one of the reasons North Korea gets overexposure, it's like a Bond villain. The guy, the way they look, the way they dress, you see the guy is going down the street like that.


DEUTSCH: All kidding aside, it's a very simple visual demonstration of evil, of whether we dress them, what they look like, vs. somebody in Afghanistan, what does that look like over there? And it is made for TV. It's very interesting.

TAYLOR: I think we all have to agree that this guy just might be crazy to do something.

KLIEMAN: Exactly.

TAYLOR: And while we may be safe here stateside, they can't reach us stateside, but there are people in South Korea, Guam, Japan. There is enough foreign and domestic personnel over there that are in harm's way. The guy is crazy. Look, he said he shot 52 on a golf course. I have never seen anybody do it. Apparently, this guy is pretty good at golf.


TAYLOR: We don't even know how old he is, but I think he's just crazy enough that I makes you wonder. And the U.S. is moving assets closer and closer to be able to handle these things.

HOOVER: But then we had to scale back doing that, for fear that they would misinterpret that as aggression.

TAYLOR: To be too provocative, yes.

(CROSSTALK) KLIEMAN: That's what secretaries of defense and secretaries of state are for.

If he's bargaining, if he's looking that he wants something, what does he want besides a conversation?

DEUTSCH: Well, we wants us to loosen the economic sanctions.

Does he look like a -- can we put him back up on the screen?


DEUTSCH: I don't know. That guy doesn't scare me for some reason. Call me crazy.


KLIEMAN: But that degree of unpredictability is what becomes the frightening...


REILLY: By the way, this is why you never send Dennis Rodman somewhere. He leaves, three weeks later, they're declaring war against the U.S.

When we come back, how did you guys like the '90s? Did like the '90s?

HOOVER: It's the '90s.

REILLY: The '90s were all about the Clintons. They might be coming back when we come back on THE POINT.


REILLY: All right, so you see Hillary Clinton signed a deal with Simon & Schuster. It looks like it's going to be $8 million, her first book in more than 11 years.

And, by the way, next month, Bill Clinton is getting an award from GLAAD, even though he was the one that put through the Defense of Marriage Act, which he now completely rejects. And, by the way, Jim Carville just joined Hillary's super PAC, which is Are You Ready for Hillary?

So my question to you all is, are we ready for more Clintons?

HOOVER: Have we taken a break from the Clintons? It's a continuous stream beginning in 1993 all the way through until -- it's like the never-ending story.

DEUTSCH: I think what's interesting is the (INAUDIBLE) part. I think what is going to be a fascinating piece of history if what I said the other day, which I'm always right -- actually, I'm usually wrong, but if I'm right in this instance, that Hillary will be our next president.



DEUTSCH: No, guys, she will be. Just imagining her and Bill together, because this guy is not going to be in the background, I think that's fascinating.

And say what you want politically, whether you like Bill Clinton or not. This is a brilliant man who has his arms around the world. And the two of them together, boy, I don't mind seeing them in the front seat of the car.

HOOVER: This is actually like paid-for advertising for the Hillary Clinton.


DEUTSCH: No, my point is about having one of the greatest presidents of all time as her partner, with a very successful secretary of state.

Now, it's not a Hoover, of course. It's not a descendent of the Hoovers, but it's the closest we can get to that.


HOOVER: I think it's driving for Hoover's humanitarian global belief. I think he was actually his model for his post-presidency.


DEUTSCH: There you go.


HOOVER: I do -- look, I feel like we deserve to give them a break. And, frankly, I want a break from it. I think most of America wants a break from talking about the Clintons.

But we can't help ourselves to go the horse race, to go the horse race. I think one thing that will be interesting when she writes her book, we will watch what state she goes to promote. Is she going to Iowa to sell a lot of books?


HOOVER: You're not going to sell a lot of books in Iowa.

KLIEMAN: But why shouldn't she?

If her desire is to run for president or even the possibility that it's a glimmer in the back of her mind, which I assume it's in the front of her mind, why wouldn't she go to Iowa? Why wouldn't she go to all of these places? There is no question that the Clintons are two of the great political operatives the country.

DEUTSCH: The two, the two.

KLIEMAN: They have kept their fund-raisers together. They have been constantly on -- in motion looking to what may be ahead of them.

And they learned a very difficult lesson in 2008. You have Bill Clinton now being very active in endorsements in local city government races. He endorsed someone for mayor in the city of Los Angeles. This is all, I predict, a way to get their bodies in motion.


REILLY: If you're asking me, are you ready for more Clintons, hell yes.

It was the longest peacetime expansion in our economy's history. He balanced the budget. And, by the way, plenty of secretary of states have become president, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Quincy Adams, Van Buren, Buchanan. All were secretary of states, became president.

I personally think she's too old. I don't think it's a good idea.


DEUTSCH: You're going to be in trouble. Wow.


REILLY: I said that about Romney. I said that about McCain. It's not a female thing.


HOOVER: Did you vote for Reagan?

REILLY: Did I vote for Reagan?

HOOVER: I'm just saying, Reagan was older.

REILLY: Of course not. I didn't vote for Reagan.


DEUTSCH: ... interesting symbolism if they end up being -- because we clearly know the president and the first lady kind of set the cultural tone for the country.

Their marriage has been anything but the average marriage. In every -- even their relationship now, people don't -- that's a partnership. Call it what you want. I worked on the Clinton campaign. And I saw some things up front.



TAYLOR: Ready for Hillary over here.

HOOVER: Infomercial.

DEUTSCH: But men -- gender roles in this country, and all the things we talk about, and the lean in, if that is ever the first couple, it's going to be fascinating, its effect on us as a society. Forget politically. It's going to be a true seminal moment for how we act in this country as men and women. The first man.


TAYLOR: Let me ask you this. If Hillary Clinton was the president, what would she do about gun laws?

We saw today Connecticut's governor signed what advocacy groups are calling the strongest and most comprehensive gun reform. Connecticut now has the strongest gun laws in all of America. They required background checks. They added 100 new assault weapons to their banned list. Everybody has got to get background checks, as I said.

But my question is, there's been more pro-type gun law -- gun legislation than there has been anti-guns.

REILLY: Since Newtown.

TAYLOR: Since Newtown.

Has the NRA kind of kind of taken the lead in this? And are they winning right now? Is the NRA winning?

DEUTSCH: There's a reason.

I want to put up the front of the NRA magazine and read the headline. And this is the reason that is happening. Can we put that up, guys? And it says, "Only you can save our guns from King Pinocchio. Why America -- why American gun owners must stand and fight."

The reason there's more traction on that side, I believe, the passion to keep guns, I think, is a higher level of passion than the people to take guns away. I think the level of fight on that side, emotionally, is more charged than the same people around this table who want to pull back on guns. So I think that's why they're winning, actually.

KLIEMAN: Well, the closer you get physically to a tragedy, like a Newtown, like an Aurora, Colorado, like Arizona, the more you are passionate about gun control or gun reform.

The farther away you get, the less passionate you are, whereas the NRA has managed to continue to pour money to galvanize support by playing upon those passions. I mean, we saw it in the last election, let alone in recent times, of the whole idea that, if you vote for Obama, he's going to take away your guns.

REILLY: Not true.

KLIEMAN: And of course it's not true. But it was what they said, and to put the fear of God into you.

REILLY: Let me tell you, I am passionate about this.

I had three guys on my softball team with kids at Columbine. We played softball right next to Columbine. My sign was in Aurora the day of the shooting. It happened at night.

ESPN had -- Jason and I know people right in Newtown. So, this has affected me personally. And I was really depressed, until yesterday. Connecticut passed the law. They closed the gun show loophole. They finally said you can no longer buy these magazines with 30 bullets, 100 bullets.

And, by the way, we have been talking about this for about four minutes since we started this subject. Adam Lanza shot for five minutes. Keep that in mind.


REILLY: Five minutes, we have been talking about this. He was shooting the whole time.

So when states like Arkansas say, hey, we just made it easier for you to carry a gun in church, and when South Dakota says now teachers can pack,, people, we're going backwards. We can do this. You can keep your guns. But you don't have to be crazy. We don't need to make it convenient to hunt human beings.

HOOVER: But I think the point is where has the breakdown been at the federal level? Because these are all state initiatives. There has been a breakdown at the federal level of being able to get something done that people agree on.


HOOVER: And we know there are things that people agree on, universal background checks; 89 percent of Republicans are in favor of it. There's been a massive breakdown.

I know if you think Hillary Clinton were president, this wouldn't have happened.


DEUTSCH: No, I don't think so. I don't think so.

I think -- and I go back to that magazine -- the irony in this is the NRA is winning this, because they're more focused. REILLY: It's early.


HOOVER: It's more than just the NRA.

DEUTSCH: The ferocity to protect guns outweighs in the ferocity to take them away.

HOOVER: And why is that, though? Because I think it's important to stress and emphasize that there is -- the founding of this country was established on the Second Amendment.


DEUTSCH: Well, that's why it is.

To the people who have their guns, it is their definition of who they are as people and Americans. To the people that want them taken away, we're very impassioned, Rick, to you point, when it's 10 days after Newtown, 20 days. When everybody goes back to their lives, we have dinner conversation, we talk about it, it's not gyrating here. And that's the difference.

HOOVER: Well, it's also not part of life.

DEUTSCH: Yes. Yes. That's the point, yes.

HOOVER: For the people who are gun owners, it's a part of their life. Right?

Like, I grew up in Colorado. I got my first 20-gauge when I was 12 years old. Right? It's part of your life. It's the part of the way you grew up. It's a sportsman culture. It's a very different culture than urban -- as you're talking about, urban elites, who only interface with guns when there's a tragedy.

DEUTSCH: Us wussies, the wussies, right?

HOOVER: The wussies, the wussification of America.


HOOVER: Just a tease for a little later in the show.

First, we're going to get to another story. Did you hear this one, Donny? Some North Carolina lawmakers want to establish a state religion. No, it is not Judaism. Is this constitutional? We will get to it when we get back to THE POINT.


HOOVER: All right, so, North Carolina legislators have decided that they're going to submit a resolution. Several Republicans, seven, I think, have signed to it. And it's going to establish a state religion in North Carolina. Christianity will now be the state religion of North Carolina, if it passes.

Is this constitutional, Rikki?


KLIEMAN: No, it is not.

HOOVER: Why isn't it constitutional?

KLIEMAN: Well, first of all, if they're thinking this way, they may as well secede from the union.

But we have tried that one before, too. It is not constitutional, because the First Amendment to the United States Constitution has a provision that says that you cannot establish a religion.


So -- but we all know, historically, that the states, when they first joined the union, when they first -- in the early infancy of this country, Maryland was a Catholic state. Rhode Island was a Catholic state. Certain states had establishment clauses.

And, somehow, this was permitted until around 1947, is my understanding, when there was a case, that the Supreme Court then applied the establishment clause to all of the states.

Am I close, Judge?

KLIEMAN: I think that that's really pretty accurate, very, very well done. You get an A-plus.

REILLY: So you don't want to go back to 1947?

TAYLOR: No, not at all, too many issues with that.

DEUTSCH: We were talking about guns and the states going in different directions, one more example of how we continue to be two countries.

It's just so stunning. Every social issue is so amped up now, that, obviously, when it comes to reelection...


HOOVER: Well, let's be clear how this came about. Right?

This came about because there's -- Rowan County in North Carolina was -- the commissioners were praying at their county commissioner meeting. And the ACLU, the ACLU filed a lawsuit. So this -- is it begins this cycle of incitement, right? So then it's a backlash against the ACLU saying, well, then we're doing to double down and make Christianity the state religion.

KLIEMAN: But this doesn't even pass the straight face test. It really doesn't. It's so preposterous.

DEUTSCH: So I don't have to be worried? There will be kosher delis all over North Carolina. OK.


REILLY: What an insult to all of the great universities down there, the idea that somehow we can pick an official religion.

By the way, which Christian religion? They sometimes don't get along with each other. And what are we going to pick next, an official party, an official NFL team? This is the same state that it took a Supreme Court ruling for them to stop banning interracial marriages. So, it's a little scary to me. I hope it doesn't gain any ground.

TAYLOR: This is my whole thing.

Like you said, this doesn't pass the sight test. It doesn't pass any test. It's not going to happen. In this day and age where there's so many big issues out there that need taking care of, does this not just look like grandstanding to you?

It's just -- they're just grandstanding. It's not going to happen. They're not going to get an official religion.

HOOVER: I think there are some people who are quite serious about this.

TAYLOR: I'm sure there are. There's a lot of people quite serious about the Aryan Brotherhood, too. It doesn't make it right.


TAYLOR: But it just -- I understand they're trying to throw back at the ACLU and they want to be religious. You have the freedom in this country to practice whatever religion you want.

Good for you. Go and do it. You're not going to pass an official religion.


TAYLOR: You have an official flower. You have an official color. You have an official flag.

DEUTSCH: Jason, to your point, and I don't want to kind of point the finger back at us, the stories that make sexy media stories are the ones on the extremes. That's the problem.

REILLY: But it's still mind-boggling, Donny. It's worth talking about.

DEUTSCH: No, no, no, of course it is.

My point is, 20, 30, 40 years ago, all the nonsense on the complete ends of the axes is going on now, because there are so many hours to fill up and they make the most provocative discussions, they actually get heightened. So there's this weird irony, this real kind of contradiction.


HOOVER: But, by calling them out, we're punching them back.


DEUTSCH: We are. You have to -- I'm not saying -- it's not like a dumb media argument. It's just -- it's like Jason will bring up a point almost like, why are we talking about it?

TAYLOR: But they're doing those things, so we will. They know this is what gets covered.

KLIEMAN: Well, I don't want to really go and say that every state is doing a bad thing.

But let's look at this second Southern state that is doing a bad thing.

TAYLOR: Stay in the South.

DEUTSCH: The Northerners knocking it to the Confederates.


KLIEMAN: Listen, when I used to try cases in the South, I used my middle name, because I could get a lot farther when they called me Rikki-Jo (ph).


KLIEMAN: When you look at this situation in Georgia, I was actually shocked when I read this.

HOOVER: It's unbelievable.

KLIEMAN: They have segregated proms. And they have had them forever.

So, when you look at something like that, Jason, isn't it time that someone says, so what about tradition, let's get rid of tradition?


I mean, it's -- we're well past that point of -- of trying to withhold -- a lot of traditions were gone for a reason. Martin Luther King Jr. went through a lot of things to get a lot of changes made in the South. How this has gone on for so long without it coming up and being extinguished -- hold on, let me finish -- is beyond me.

Now, we were talking about the Aryan Brotherhood and we're talking about segregating proms in the south. It boggles my mind that people can go through and do these types of things. So hurtful to so many people. We've come so far.

DEUTSCH: You're saying it's coming from the kids.

TAYLOR: From the kids and the parents. The parents are allowing these kids -- and the school -- the school kind of steps back and says, "Oh, we're not organizing it. We're not sponsoring it. It's the parents and the kids." It doesn't matter.

KLIEMAN: Isn't that the problem? Shouldn't they step up?

TAYLOR: It absolutely is the problem. They should step up. Somebody needs to step up. That this can continue to go on in 2013 is just absurd.

HOOVER: We actually have a sound byte for it, just to hear how bad it is. Let's take a listen.


KLIEMAN: Stick with the tradition. You know, this is a traditional thing. We don't need to change and stuff like that. I'm like, but why? No one could answer my question.

KLIEMAN: And they think that nothing is broken. So why fix it?


DEUTSCH: I was talking to a buddy of mine from Americus, Georgia, who grew up about 30 miles from there. He said in the '70s and '80s, there was no segregation. He was like huh?

REILLY: Can I just explain?

DEUTSCH: This is a very isolated...

HOOVER: All right, Rick. Tell it like it is.

REILLY: I'll tell you what's going on here, is the school doesn't put on the prom. The different -- the different families put on the prom. And they've always had a black prom and a white prom.

But finally, these four kids said, "Wait a minute." Because for the first time, they elected a prom king and prom queen. The King was white, the queen was black. So they said, "Let's -- let's combine these." The queen was not invited to the white prom. So they're saying, "Let's" -- so they're trying to throw this chicken dinner to raise enough money to have an integrated prom.

Now, this is where the school is at fault. They put up posters saying, "Come to our chicken dinner, and we're going to raise money for a prom," and the school made them tear it down. School wouldn't let them put up the posters. That's where the school is at fault. It was an old tradition. It's time to change.

KLIEMAN: I say the school should step up. And the school should really take responsibility here. And the idea of saying well, you could have two proms, as one of the students said, that's pretty lame.

And whatever it takes, whether it's a private donor to come in and finance this integrated prom, or whether it's to bring a teen idol or someone in. You were talking last night about Jay-Z. I bet you if Jay-Z came down there and was going to be there...


HOOVER: I think we all just -- we all should just send them ten bucks. Just send ten bucks to this chicken dinner.

REILLY: Why not?

HOOVER: Let's all just finance.

REILLY: We don't want the chicken.

HOOVER: We don't want the chicken. We just want to -- you could micro-finance this. Everybody can send a little bit of money.

DEUTSCH: Speaking of chicken, our good friends over at FOX yesterday, one of the commentators, said that the firing of the Rutgers basketball men's coach is a symbol of the wussification of America. When we come back, I'm going to tell the FOX commentators...

TAYLOR: Seriously.



DEUTSCH: All right, we obviously all know about the Rutgers coach getting fired yesterday. They're waiting for the other shoe to drop as far as the A.D. and the president.

Eric Bolling on FOX said this yesterday.


ERIC BOLLING, FOX COMMENTATOR: This is an example of our culture in free fall. And I'm saying because he got fired, not because of what he did.

Look, there's no question he should never have used gay slurs. That's against all rules. But I'm not sure that's what got him fired. I think going after one of the kids is what got him fired.

Listen, it's time to toughen up. I talk about the wussification of America, wussification of American men. This is it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HOOVER: Wow. That is how...

DEUTSCHE: I know Eric. I mean, he's a good guy. What are you saying, as far as I'm concerned, is crazy. And something that's getting left behind. The coach, more than anything, was incompetent. If you have to do that...

HOOVER: To physically abuse your players?

DEUTSCH: That's even getting buried there. But, Eric, come on. You know? The numbers are good over there. You don't need to do this. I mean, help me out, Mr. Wuss, over here.

TAYLOR: So does that make Mike Rice a tough guy? Because he can do that, to kids who are subordinate to him, who cannot stand up for themselves? If one of these kids had stood up for themselves and threw a ball back at the coach or punched him...

HOOVER: They would have been benched.

TAYLOR: ... they would have been gone.

REILLY: Off the team.

TAYLOR: They would have been off the team, no scholarship, out of the school, have to go somewhere else. Now, try transferring to another school. "Why did you leave Rutgers?" "Oh, I knocked my coach out because he threw a ball to me." Well, try to explain that one.

Outside of Eric Murdoch sending this tape to ESPN...

HOOVER: Never would have been cut.

TAYLOR: Then this tough guy would have been abusing wussies. According to Eric Bolling.

REILLY: By the way, Chipper Jones said this -- tweeted the same thing today. The Atlanta Braves star. He said toughen up down there. He was for this guy. What is going on?

TAYLOR: Chipper Jones plays baseball.


TAYLOR: There is nothing tough in baseball. Chipper Jones, next. Next. Anyway.

Who else has something to say? Chipper? Bolling? Those guys are on my list.

REILLY: I'll tell you who had something to say. Former players came out yesterday and today and said it was brutal. They said, depending on traffic, he'd be out of his mind. If he had a fight with his wife the night before, he would do even worse things than we showed on ESPN.

This guy was a bully. And how can Eric Bullying, or Bolling, or whatever his name is, support this guy. And Eric Bolling has one kid. I hope that this knuckle head, Rice, becomes his trainer.

HOOVER: No. You don't.

REILLY: I really don't.

KLIEMAN: Go ahead. Now, you're the expert.

TAYLOR: I'm not an expert on coach beating. But...

KLIEMAN: No, on things you shouldn't do.

TAYLOR: He is up for a bonus here. I think it's a hundred thousand dollars bonus that he is due and going to fight for. Should he get this bonus? That's the question. And contractually, he's due this bonus. And he had -- he's got five, $50,000 over here.

Let me say this: in sports, increasingly as you go through high school into college and professional, some of the language isn't what people would like to hear. It's coaching. There's -- it's a very testosterone-driven sport atmosphere. There's a lot of cursing and four-letter words and all that. It comes along with coaching, and we understand that. We use it, too, as players.

And I don't have a problem with the -- some of the four-letter words that -- obviously, the homophobic words and all that are terrible. But we're not talking about the verbal yelling of, you know, "You're an idiot. Get over there and do it" and all that stuff. It's the physical. When you put your hands on -- I'm sorry, you put your hands on me -- I'm just -- I'm just glad I did not go to Rutgers. We'd be talking about me right now.

KLIEMAN: Well, one of the -- one of the things that's really a question here is it's simply a question of ethics.

I'm married, as you know, to a former police chief. And we often used to say policing isn't pretty. But you know when you look at the tape was what that police officer did, was it ethical? And that's the perfect analogy for me.

I don't need to know what a coach would do in that situation. I know enough when I see that tape that I know that's not right.

DEUTSCH: And by the way, the coach -- it was the Marquette coach. He was very successful. They have -- they have a thing, this boot camp thing, where the kids were puking and passing out. I mean, they couldn't go through it. So nobody's saying, you shouldn't be tough on kids, particularly athletes. We know anybody who's in the service, what they go through. But, Eric...

TAYLOR: Come on, you've got the whistle.

HOOVER: We know where the line is. And that was across it. REILLY: I expect him to say, "And by the way, Kevin Ware should have gotten up and walked off on his own." I mean, this guy, what is he going to say next?

TAYLOR: He obviously has no idea.

REILLY: OK. Remember we were talking about the Clintons? I think the country, according to a poll that just came out, is something's going to happen to finally allow Bill Clinton to inhale. We'll talk about it when we come back.

HOOVER: And it's in Colorado.

REILLY: And it's in Colorado. And maybe the country.


REILLY: So this is called THE POINT, not THE JOINT, but I've got a marijuana story for you.

For this Pew Polling just did a marijuana -- that's an odd name for a company, right? Pew Polling, marijuana. They said for the first time in the history of the country, Americans approve of the idea of legalized marijuana 52-45 percent. It's never been that high since 1978, when it was 48 percent. Only 10 years ago, it was 33 percent. So my question is, is this is a tipping point? Are we ready to go on this?

HOOVER: Yes. I don't know. I for one -- I -- I'm one of these Americans who's very conflicted.

First of all, I'm from Colorado. I've lived in Colorado. I -- you know, look. Clearly, the status quo is not working in the drug war. And so there's a very strong argument to be made for legalizing and taxing marijuana.

At the same time, I have a very hard time with the message it sends to children. How do you -- how do you contain -- parents are going to have to really step it up and get very active. You know, advocacy campaigns to keep kids from just using this stuff all of the time. Because if it's legal...


HOOVER: ... for kids -- for kids. Am I wrong? Am I misguided? Because this is, you know, when a child -- when children's brains are developing, like, this notion that they can just have unlimited access to extraordinary amounts of marijuana. It decays their development.

DEUTSCH: I actually agree with you. And it goes...

HOOVER: I was shocked. Can we rewind the tape?

DEUTSCH: I do agree with you, and it's the same reason we don't have to relax the FCC rulings on TV as far as what we can say, what not. Why do we need to push it? I know it sounds crazy. And what's interesting, the reason it's happening. You know, earlier in this show, we talked about people trenching in on guns and people trenching in on white supremacy, because the country demographically is moving more progressively. And this is one more sign. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

I don't think we have -- I don't think we've got to push it along. It's just my feeling, personally.

HOOVER: If we go state by state, if New York were to pass it, what would you do?

DEUTSCH: Oh, by the way, this is a clip. Maybe before we go we'll have Margaret passing a joint...

HOOVER: Passing a joint.

DEUTSCH: ... on Bill Maher's show.

HOOVER: It was actually passed to me by Zach Galifianakis.

DEUTSCH: You seem very comfortable with it. We'll show that a little bit later.

HOOVER: I'm a good actress.

KLIEMAN: I think that there is an argument to be made. I'm going to do it from my husband's point of view, not necessarily my own.

But I do think that law-enforcement figures would say this. Marijuana today is not your children's marijuana, meaning -- not your parents' marijuana, I should do it that way. The marijuana of 1960 does not have anything near the THC content of the marijuana today. This is a far more potent drug.

And police, in particular, look at it as a gateway drug. And the difficulty becomes this. If you start to legalize marijuana, what is the next? Do you legalize cocaine? Do you legalize heroin? Is the argument precisely the same?

REILLY: They polled -- they polled that exact question, and most Americans now say -- and I think they realize, correctly, that it's no longer a gateway drug. It's no different than booze.

And you have to be 18. You're not just going to give it to your 7-year-old at a birthday party.

HOOVER: But you and I both understand in Colorado. You can walk into the coffee shop and get it. It's prevalent. If you are a kid, you're under 18 in Colorado, and you want to get pot, it is very -- there's no...

REILLY: You know what the scary thing about pot is also? You know what the scary...


REILLY: Kids are, today, it has been drilled into them to not drink and drive. I don't know if kids understand how dangerous smoking and driving is.

KLIEMAN: And clearly, it's not understood (ph) because it's not readily available.

DEUTSCH: People on pot don't go driving.

KLIEMAN: Well, I don't know about that.

TAYLOR: Marijuana, from what I understand, there's a lot of people that spoke in different age groups. But this is really the drug of the Baby Boomers. This is the big Baby Boomer drug. Well, now they get in the Gen-X people and the millennials, their drugs are changing. Ecstasy and heroin. It is still big, but there's so many more exotic drugs, so to speak, out there.

So what are we doing in 20 years? Are my kids sitting here talking about, "Let's legalize cocaine? Or Ecstasy?" Or all these crazy, outside-the-box drugs. Just because the status quo isn't working on law enforcement right now, does that mean, "You know what, we can't beat it. Let's just legalize it and let everybody do it?" I think this...

REILLY: It's not about law enforcement. It's about freedom. Freedom to -- we realize it's not a gateway drug.

TAYLOR: Freedom to break the law.

REILLY: That's what I'm saying. It wouldn't be against the law.

TAYLOR: OK. Well, you know what? It's against the law to rob banks. If we can't control it, just legalize it. What's next? What's next? I mean, really, what's next?

REILLY: You're equating pot with banks?

TAYLOR: I'm equating it with crack cocaine. We can't beat it, so we just legalize it? I'm sorry.

KLIEMAN: No, don't be sorry. I liked your point.

I want to raise an economic point before we leave. Having lived in California for seven years before I returned to New York, as marijuana -- medical marijuana became legal, that what we saw were these strip malls where the deterioration of businesses in the strip malls because of the people hanging out at the strip malls looking for someone to get them marijuana, was really a sad state of affairs.

REILLY: It's true. And we've got a lot more crime in Colorado from people robbing the pot stores. But we can work on that.

Just a little work.

TAYLOR: You can't control it, just legalize that, too. Why not? Legalize burglary.

DEUTSCH: Rikki, what's next?

KLIEMAN: Speaking of the munchies, there is a McDonald's in New England that now has a new requirement when it's going to be hiring. It wants you to have a college degree plus more. We'll talk about that in a moment.


KLIEMAN: Well, there is a McDonald's, and it's in Massachusetts. And they have decided that in order to sling burgers that you must have a college degree plus two years' experience. I'm not sure two years' experience at what.

So if you look at it, Donny, what do you think? I mean, is it all about the fact that...

DEUTSCH: Very simple. Supply and demand. I think there are more people looking for jobs. You can raise your standards. Less people looking for jobs, you have to lower your standards.

REILLY: By the way, it's not sling burgers. It's cashier. That's to be a cashier. And here's the hilarious thing.

HOOVER: Maybe your experience comes from slinging burgers, and then you can move on to being a cashier.

REILLY: But you have to have the degree.

KLIEMAN: You have to have the degree. And when you think about being a cashier, not only at McDonald's but at many restaurants, both good and fancy as well as fast food, the cashier just points a finger at the item. It's not like they have to do...

REILLY: At McDonald's, you don't even push a number in. You just hit the...

KLIEMAN: The item.

REILLY: And it adds it for you, and then it tells you what the -- what the change. What we talked about the other day is that...

DEUTSCH: And Rick, I think you'll give me a bonus point for this. Half of the people in this country the last few years have gotten college degrees have jobs that don't -- wouldn't have ordinarily required a college degree.

REILLY: This is an example.

DEUTSCH: And even if unemployment continues to keep going down as it's been, the fact that the globalization of the world and so many jobs we're competing with that, and the fact that the technolization of the world, this is not going away. This is not going away.

KLIEMAN: Well, let me -- let me take the other side of it, Margaret, with you. That when I got out of college, and I had to get a first job, I actually remember going to be a waitress as I was looking for a better job.

HOOVER: I was a waitress, too. Really bad.

KLIEMAN: Terrible. But it was a rite of passage. So is there really something wrong with this.

REILLY: I think there is. I think there is something wrong. How is somebody supposed to get experience if you can't go to McDonald's and get a job?

HOOVER: You can't...


REILLY: You can't act like it's some incredibly hard job. Just because you can screw people, you shouldn't. You know what minimum wage is now in this country? Seven and a quarter.

DEUTSCH: What Rick is saying is sometimes, particularly in tough times, you've got to grind (ph) down. So it's like is it unfair to the person who wants that job, who has a college degree? I don't think so.

REILLY: But why? What is the reason you need a college degree?

DEUTSCH: To me, it's very simple. If I'm hiring ten people in a store, OK, and there are 100 people looking for jobs, I can raise my standards on the level. That's simple. That's all it is.

REILLY: What doesn't it stand for something else, like you're really fun? Or you're -- it has nothing to do with a degree.

DEUTSCH: I'm not saying you need a degree. But what they're saying is that probably self-select a higher education -- it doesn't lead to better people, but it's no different than MBAs only matter when there are more and more jobs, because then that elevates MBAs. When all of a sudden, there are so many jobs out there, you don't need the MBA. That's all it is.

TAYLOR: ... the other day, be careful what you study. We have plenty of bartenders with bachelor's degrees. Now I guess you can't even punch a...

REILLY: So more people are studying to be bartenders?

HOOVER: Normally, at this point in the show, we do bonus points. And today, rather than each having our own bonus points, we're having a selective bonus point for Roger Ebert. As we all know, the legendary film critic died today at the age of 70. And we all wanted to give him two thumbs up for the incredible work that he did. Well, ten thumbs. Is that ten thumbs?

DEUTSCH: What's also sad is years ago, Gene Siskel passed away, and you know, I grew up watching "Siskel and Ebert." Years and years and years. To the point where they were, both of them, and Roger were so elevated that they didn't even have people coming up in their shoes. Obviously, there are movie critics out there, but they had -- Roger had such iconic status that there isn't...

HOOVER: They were the only ones out there.

REILLY: Both writers on TV. So these guys were my heroes. I will miss them. And I guess I'll never see him at the movies any more, but it was great.

HOOVER: The most powerful pundit in America. According to "Forbes" magazine.

TAYLOR: Great job. Sitting and watching movies all day. Great job.

HOOVER: There we go. Thanks very much for being with us here on THE POINT. We'll see you next time.