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Prosecutor Cross-Examines Domestic Violence Expert

Aired April 5, 2013 - 19:00   ET


RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: The police tapes of Jodi Arias.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, exclusive never-before-seen video of victim Travis Alexander that our show has just obtained. Here`s Travis with his good buddy Dave Hall. There he is stretched out. Travis Alexander. The man who is at the center now of this case. The victim. We`ll analyze this video.

And we`re going to show you the explosive fight in court between prosecutor Juan Martinez and the defense expert who claims victim Travis Alexander was a cruel and abusive man. Is Juan angry for Travis?


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, the gloves are off. Yelling and high drama in court as the prosecutor in the Jodi Arias trial goes after the star witness for the defense. An amped-up Juan Martinez attacks domestic violence expert Alyce LaViolette over her claim that the Disney character Snow White might be a battered woman. Why are we talking about fairy tales during a murder trial? Has this become theater of the absurd?

Plus, is prosecutor Martinez losing the jury by being too aggressive? We`ll debate it with our expert sidebar panel tonight.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Does that make any difference to your evaluation, whether or not the prosecutor`s angry?

ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: I`d like you to speak to me the way I speak to you.

MARTINEZ: You want to spar with me? Is that -- was that, in fact, the way you viewed your testimony?

LAVIOLETTE: When someone`s approaching in that way, it`s very hard to listen.

MARTINEZ: What you`re telling me is that your memory is lacking as to what was in those journals. Yes or no?

LAVIOLETTE: It`s not a yes or no. Do you want the truth, Mr. Martinez?

MARTINEZ: Just because the prosecutor is angry at you, is that going to make you change your answer?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, brand-new exclusive never-before-seen video of victim Travis Alexander. There he is stretched out, enjoying the life he was about to lose in a vicious killing.

And fireworks in the Jodi Arias courtroom. A verbal slug fest as prosecutor Juan Martinez and the defense domestic violence expert go out it in an explosive showdown. But when the fairytale Snow White is dragged into court, has this trial gone completely off the rails?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Jodi admits she killed Travis Alexander but says it was all done in self-defense. Well, take a look at this new video of Jodi as a bridesmaid, courtesy of Nancy Grace. Oh, she looks so dainty here. It`s a demure side she tries to show in court, too. Could jurors have a hard time imagining this petite little thing could have plotted and executed such a violent and brutal killing?

The star witness for the defense has painted Travis as a womanizing, cruel abuser who called Jodi every name in the book and smacked her around. Listen to this.


LAVIOLETTE: And calling her a cheap whore.


LAVIOLETTE: Calling her a corrupted carcass.

WILLMOTT: And another one?

LAVIOLETTE: "Hitler had more of a conscience than you." He tells her her words are worthless. He hates her. She`s caused him more pain than the death of his father. She`s a rotten lunatic. He`s never dealt with a more solid form of evil. She`s nothing but a liar. She lives a life identical to Satan. She ought to get tips for giving (EXPLETIVE DELETED). She never loved him. She`s got a slut`s job. "You`re worthless. You`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. But on cross-examination prosecutor Juan Martinez was furious and fired back at her, attacking her credibility. Listen to this.


MARTINEZ: You tell us the defendant, in your opinion, was the victim of abuse, right?

LAVIOLETTE: That was not the only thing that I used, Mr. Martinez.

MARTINEZ: Did you use this to tell us that the defendant was in an abusive relationship? Yes or no?

LAVIOLETTE: Mr. Martinez, are you angry at me?

MARTINEZ: Does that make any difference to your evaluation, whether or not the prosecutor is angry?

Do you want to spar with me? Is that -- will that affect the way you view your testimony?

What you`re telling me is that your memory is lacking as to what was in those journals.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. What a shouting match. Prosecutor Juan Martinez versus a domestic violence expert, Alyce LaViolette. Should Juan be yelling? Should Alyce be talking back? Let`s debate it with our expert panel. Who`s winning here, starting with the prosecution? Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, I know everyone seems to think that he`s too aggressive, but you know, this has -- has been his style all the way. I mean, you`ve seen his cross-examine nine to ten witnesses so far. His style doesn`t change. He`s aggressive, and he gets the answers that he wants. So I don`t think he`s doing anything improper.

Everyone seems to think that, you know, prosecutors never cross- examine people so they don`t know how to do it, you know, tactfully. The fact of the matter is, it`s not his first time at the rodeo. This guy has been doing it for an awful long time. And he`s effective, and I think he`s fine at whatever he`s doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rene Sandler for the defense.

RENE SANDLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s a big difference here between being aggressive and being passionate about being a prosecutor. I was at one time the same way. But he`s over the line. He`s argumentative. He is in -- in and of itself abusive, the way he`s treating this witness. He`s lost the decorum that`s required in this courtroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me show you bits and pieces of both, because they`re both doing controversial things. Tensions were exploding in court as this prosecutor went after this defense expert. And remember, she`s the one who has trashed the victim here, saying Travis Alexander was abusive to Jodi. OK? So essentially giving Jodi a reason to kill Travis Alexander, in essence.

So the prosecutor is furious. He`s thinking for a dead man.

Now, it seems like he met his match. Alyce LaViolette was actually talking back. Is she supposed to do that? Let`s listen to this clip, and then we`ll debate it on the other side.


MARTINEZ: You seem to be having trouble answering my questions.

LAVIOLETTE: Mr. Martinez, are you angry at me?

MARTINEZ: Does that make any difference to your evaluation, whether or not the prosecutor is angry? Do you want to spar with me? Is that -- will that affect the way you view your testimony.

What you`re telling me is that your memory is lacking as to what was in those journals. Yes or no?

LAVIOLETTE: It`s not a yes or no. Do you want the truth, Mr. Martinez?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Lieberman, is this defense witness sassing the prosecutor?

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, I think Mr. Martinez has now had to listen to this witness up there for five or six days, vilifying the real victim in this case, Travis Alexander, so of course he`s going to be a little bit angry. He is speaking for Travis and for the people of Arizona.

And as was said a little earlier, this is no different than Mr. Martinez has been the whole trial. And yes, I think he is frustrated with this witness. I think he is angry at this witness. And especially because 95 percent of her testimony is based on things that were told to her by a proven liar, Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub for the defense.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that Juan Martinez`s credibility is diminished as he gets into the minutia, like he did with the dwarves and yelling at a witness. This is an expert witness. Expert witnesses are treated differently. You don`t demean and disrespect them.

And second of all, you know, all of you on this panel are saying that he -- that she, the defense witness, is trashing the victim, Travis Alexander. No. She`s repeating the words that Travis Alexander used to call Jodi.

SANDLER: Exactly.

LIEBERMAN: In a bubble. In a bubble.

She`s taking small portions in a bubble to prove her theory.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. You made a point. You said, Jayne, oh, this witness wasn`t trashing Travis Alexander. I beg to differ.

WEINTRAUB: She`s repeating Travis` words. And I`ll tell you something, Jane. What he is doing is diminishing a domestic violence as a DSM analysis and diagnosis, saying that there is no such thing. Really?


SANDLER: Look, Jayne Is absolutely right. You have text messages of the deceased. You have e-mails, communications of Travis Alexander. So these are his words. No one is putting words in anyone`s mouth. This person is analyzing the communications and the dynamic in this relationship. It has to come out and be analyzed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were some words, but Jon Lieberman, yes. He sent some very nasty instant messages and texts to her, but she is taking at face value what Jodi Arias said about him slapping her, no proof for that, him choking her until she went unconscious. No proof for that. She`s acting like that`s a fact when it`s simply what Jodi has said. He threatened her.

LIEBERMAN: Well, absolutely. Just like Jodi on direct. She`s taking pieces, and she examines small pieces that aren`t being looked at in the larger context, and they won`t be until Mr. Martinez continues on cross with her. Then you`re going to get the full picture of why some of these things happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey, don you think this yelling might be a sign that he`s maybe panicked that the jury is buying...

HONOWITZ: No, no, no. Not at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That was a simple yes or no question. And you gave me a simple no. Prosecutor Juan Martinez...

HONOWITZ: I didn`t know you wanted me to go on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, that`s OK. I think it`s -- you`re saying she`s not panicked. And -- OK, I agree. Because I thought maybe this is a sign that he`s, like, panicked like, "Oh, my gosh, I`ve got to stop this tsunami of..."

HONOWITZ: Well, he does think it`s a tsunami of stuff that`s not true. So basically, he`s got to get up there and cross-examine her and show the jury that she can talk about her expertise and her continuum of aggression and all that stuff, but what is it based upon? Why does she have that ability to make this general...


HONOWITZ: ... statement that Travis abused her? That`s why he`s up there. And he`s aggressive. And he`s not going to change his style.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, but this woman is not a psychologist. She`s not a psychiatrist.

WEINTRAUB: Jane. You don`t have to be a psychologist. She is an expert accepted by the court. And they will get a jury instruction that expert witnesses are treated differently. They will have an instruction by the judge that she has met the qualifications of an expert. And it`s like when he was cross-examining her about her credentials, it was almost as if he was cross-examining a pediatrician, saying, "You can`t diagnose strep throat. You`re not a throat surgeon." She is a domestic violence expert.

HONOWITZ: Hey, Jane, you know very well it`s not every expert that takes the stand, that calls and says -- what are you saying, that if you`re an expert you don`t deserve to be cross-examined on your credentials?

WEINTRAUB: Of course you do.

HONOWITZ: Experts take -- people -- people cross-examine the state`s expert. I put a DNA expert on all the time. They cross-examined it. To the credentials, how many times they`ve done it. How do they know what they`re doing. And that`s exactly what you`ve done. If he wants to question how he`s building this conclusion, he has every right to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. We`re just getting started. Our debate continues with the dwarves -- that`s a hint -- on the other side. Why did Snow White get involved in all of this?

And I`m going to a gun range and talking to a gun expert about the ammo. You won`t believe what the lack of ammo in Travis`s home tells us about Jodi`s claims.

We`ll have more in a second.


WILLMOTT: I guess I`ll get this out of the way now. Do you have a memory problem?

LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t.

WILLMOTT: Do you have any feelings for Jodi such that it would impair your abilities to make an honest assessment about her as a battered woman or about her relationship with Mr. Alexander?

LAVIOLETTE: No, I don`t.




LUCILLE LA VERNE, ACTRESS: All alone, my pet?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. Disney`s Snow White became a central character in this case, because this defense witness, this domestic violence expert, apparently had held a seminar in the past entitled "Is Snow White a Battered Woman?"

Well, the prosecutor, Juan Martinez, has jumped all over that. But did he go too far? Check this out, and we`ll debate it.


MARTINEZ: This woman, the queen, begins to, if you will, abuse or be less than nice to Snow White, right?


MARTINEZ: The defendant, according to you, suffered some abuse as a kid, right?


MARTINEZ: According to you, the wicked stepmother in her circumstance is her mother, right?

LAVIOLETTE: I didn`t say that.

MARTINEZ: No. I`m the one that`s asking the questions.

She lived in what can be best described as less than ideal circumstances, right?


MARTINEZ: And same with Snow White, right?

LAVIOLETTE: She lived with the seven dwarfs, and according to the Disney version, she was pretty happy.

MARTINEZ: Well, she lived in a shack, right?

LAVIOLETTE: I thought it was a cute little cottage, Mr. Martinez.

MARTINEZ: All right. But there`s seven dwarfs that she`s living with, right? No one of her own age is there, right?

LAVIOLETTE: I don`t know the age of the dwarfs.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you`re wondering if somebody dropped a hallucinogen in your drink, no, this actually happened in court.

Jean Casarez, "In Session" correspondent, you were there. You were in court. What the heck? What`s going on here?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, this is an expert in anger management, actually, domestic violence, and she does a lot of presentations throughout Southern California. She has developed a lot of programs for the court systems. Children of -- the Department of Family and Services in California.

And she`s using symbolism, I believe, to show that how it appears on the outside may not be what it is behind closed doors. And I think she -- she made her presentation that focused to draw attention so people would listen. Because she tries to educate.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the prosecutor might have gotten a little carried away. But his point was that, basically, if you can make Snow White into a victim of domestic violence, you can do that with anyone, like Jodi Arias. Listen to this.


MARTINEZ: Even if no one is alive. Even if it`s a myth. Even if it`s all made up, isn`t it true that you can still come to the opinion that the person in this fantastical world is a victim of domestic violence? Using your expertise, we can make a determination, for example, that Snow White was a battered woman, can`t we?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it. Stacey Honowitz, do you think he`s making a point, or is he getting carried away and losing the jury with this whole focus on "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves"?

HONOWITZ: Well, do you think that a guy who`s been doing this for 25 years and put people on Death Row is just all of a sudden standing up and talking about a fairy tale? Would you think that maybe he`s got a point to it?

She gave a lecture, and I guarantee you that he`s going to try to use some of the things that she had in the lecture about Snow White being a battered woman and bring it into this conversation. There`s a point to this. There`s a reason. He`s not trying to bore the jurors with a fairytale story.

So you know, we quit just in the middle yesterday. He`s got more coming. And I guarantee you there is some symbolism to show, just like you said, if you can make Snow White into a battered woman, that`s what you`re trying to do here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Jayne Weintraub, I think his point, if you sum it up, you can make Snow White into a battered woman. You could probably make Cinderella into a battered woman, even though -- wait. She was abused by her evil stepsisters, not a guy.

WEINTRAUB: I`m surprised -- I`m surprised that the witness didn`t call him Grumpy right in front of everybody and -- he was being a dwarf (ph).

But I think that -- I think the better tack as a prosecutor would have been to cross-examine her, saying, "The bottom line is, whether or not she was a victim of domestic abuse, you can`t say that`s an automatic pass for murder, can you?"


WEINTRAUB: "And you`re not qualified to say where the button is pushed, can you?" That`s where he should be, instead of getting wrapped up in his minutia and his own self. He`s making this about Juan Martinez: pacing back and forth, his grumpy little patronizing, demeaning adjectives. It is a turnoff. It is a huge turnoff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Five seconds with Jon Lieberman. Then we`ve got to go to break.

LIEBERMAN: Well, just the bottom line is Mr. Martinez has another female on Death Row right now in a similar self-defense case. He knows what he`s doing, and there`s a method to his madness.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or is this case one of those mega-cases where you can`t predict what`s going to happen?

Is Jodi Arias crazy or cunning?


ARIAS (singing): It might change my memory.

(speaking): Should have at least done your make up, Jodi, gosh. Goodness.

(singing): Oh, holy night. The stars are brightly shining...




LAVIOLETTE: Jealous behavior can be very controlling. The further away she gets and the more she pulls away, the more jealous and insecure he probably gets.

When someone who has had the power starts to lose it, it`s a scary proposition for them, and they begin to react -- if they`re controlling they begin to react in controlling ways.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what bugs me about her testimony. She makes some really good points about relationships in general. Like if somebody has all the power and then they lose it because the other person starts to walk away, it panics them, and they become more controlling.

But Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, then she weaves into that Jodi`s -- well, prosecutors would say outright lies. For example, the pedophilia, that Travis was masturbating to pictures of a young boy, that Travis hit Jodi and choked her into unconsciousness. The prosecution says those are total lies. Yet, this woman is weaving it in.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: The way she weaves it in is to say that, even if these are lies, well, it is a product of her perhaps being a battered woman. That many times women who are battered minimize situations, change the reality and, therefore, come up with their own version as to how things happen in order to maintain some sort of ego functioning. So what she`s doing is actually pretty smart.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But you might say she`s minimizing something, and that is the vicious nature of the killing of Travis Alexander. Does any nasty text justify that? She`s essentially setting it up that, oh, yes, he`s so jealous, he`s so controlling, he`s so violent, that she did have to defend herself. That`s quite a leap to make based on a couple of nasty text messages.

GARDERE: Well, it`s going to be a huge leap. And look, let me tell you this. Even if there is some evidence of battered women syndrome; even if there is evidence that Travis Alexander may have been abusive; even if there is evidence that Jodi Arias actually has some sort of personality disorder, it`s going to be hard to make that leap in the way, even if she defended herself, the way that she just overreacted. The overkill of that whole scene. That`s going to be really tough.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. The nine stabs to his back, for example.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Suray (ph), Georgia. Your question or thought, Suray (ph).

CALLER: Hi, Jane. I have been listening to you all, and I just thank you for the coverage. It is wonderful.

Jodi is very cunning. And I was so happy to see that juror No. 5 in there. When she saw that lady it looked like she wanted to faint.

I believe that Martinez was trying to tie the analyzing documents from the lady that is testifying to show that -- not only did -- she was saying Travis had trauma, which would make him to be abusive.

Well, Jodi had trauma, too. She struck her mother. She kicked her mother prior to killing Travis. She has secrets and lies and lives in a fantasy world. So I think Marty is doing a really good job. And I think you guys are doing a great job.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that`s what you call him.

All right, Suray (ph).

She calls Juan Martinez "Marty." He`s getting so many nicknames. Wow. Good point. Jodi was troubled long before Travis Alexander entered her life. And her parents confirmed that in stunning newly-released interrogation tapes. We`re going to play them throughout this hour. Stay right there.


SANDRA ARIAS, JODI`S MOTHER: She would call me in the morning all happy and call me an hour or two later in tears, crying and sobbing about something she didn`t want to talk about. And it happened constantly. And her friends saw it, too. And they -- I had one friend call me in the middle of the night because he had called a hot line for bipolar people. He said Jodi is bipolar and she needs help. And then she was just -- she was a total different person.

Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time. I had quite a few of her friends call me and tell me that I needed to get her some help.




S. ARIAS: Jodi had a lot of plans for her future. How could she mess it up?


WILLIAM ARIAS, JODI`S FATHER: I just got a kind of inclination. Wow, man.

MARTINEZ: According to you, the wicked stepmother in her circumstance is her mother, right?

S. ARIAS: Maybe this death has made her see that life is short and you have to -- you know, you can`t -- you can`t be this way and it`s changing her.

MARTINEZ: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear-to-ear?

J. ARIAS: Yes.

S. ARIAS: I mean, how could somebody do that? How? I can`t even -- I can`t think of it, how anybody could do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis, oh my God.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at this new exclusive video that we have just obtained on our show, and basically it`s Travis Alexander being videotaped by his good buddy Dave Hall, who kind of sneaks up him while he`s napping. There`s the man who is no longer alive to speak for himself. Who can no longer get up and say, well, I would like to respond to all these allegations that, oh, I`m a pedophile, I`m abusive, I smacked Jodi around. He can`t do that. So prosecutor Juan Martinez is doing it for him because he represents the state and the family of the victim.

Now, here`s other incredible new video obtained by Nancy Grace. The defendant Jodi Arias there in a bridesmaid outfit at a wedding and she looks very attractive. She`s very petite, very demure. And these are the kinds of attitudes especially the demure part that she tries to project to the jurors when she`s in court as if, "Little me, what could I do. I`m a victim."

Meantime, we have her journals to look at. And we`ve got another new stunner here. Jodi journaled about her constant phone calls to detectives after Travis was killed but before she was arrested. Yes, in her diary she admits to having a morbid curiosity about what happened to Travis. Listen to this from "Good Morning America" and Nancy Grace.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I also called Detective Flores again. We spoke at length last week. He`s LDS, a nice guy. I feel like calling him every day for updates. He said he gets calls every day from friends and family. Everyone wants answers. I still don`t even know how he died. There`s a morbid curiosity that burns to know everything and part of me that doubts I can take any more information of that nature regarding him. I know --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now Jean Casarez, there she is saying I don`t even know how he died, which is a lie. She knows how he died because she killed him. She`s now admitted she did it, claiming self defense. Given that, it`s interesting that the defense expert, the battered woman`s expert has cited, has she not, her journal entries in her argument that she`s a battered woman.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": She did. Now, I didn`t hear that one in the direct examination. So I think this is a good example of what we`re going to hear on cross-examination because obviously, it`s not true what she wrote in her diary. So the prosecutor will say that`s not true. How do you know anything else in that diary is true in her journal?

But here`s what is interesting, Jane, they really de-emphasized her writing in the direct examination. It was the e-mails, the texts, the instant messages. I mean some of it was there but the written word between she and Travis was really the focus, and I think they did that on purpose.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, because obviously they can`t dispute the instant message from Travis Alexander and the texts from Travis Alexander, which did get increasingly nasty towards Jodi Arias -- that is a fact -- leading up to the killing.

Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, what do you make of a woman lying in her own journal entry? Is that just cunningly trying to cover up? Or is she demented, as Travis Alexander suggested.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it could be a combination of both. I mean this is a woman who is used to manipulating, who`s used to lying. I`ve said it before that there is a personality disorder. And I think a lot of the way that she has reacted has come from her childhood and unfortunately for Travis Alexander, he came out at the wrong end of this thing.

But yes, I think this is very interesting that she`s making up these lies in the diary. And this may speak to the fact that she is a major, major manipulator and therefore we can`t trust her words even as we analyze them as experts.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s listen to more of the lies in this diary. Jodi talks about being suicidal and confused over who and why Travis could have been killed. Who could have killed him? Listen to this from GMA and Nancy Grace and then we`re going to debate it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This may very well be enough to send me back down to suicide levels. Thoughts of such have been permeating my mind ceaselessly. I smile to others and at times it seems fine but inside I just want to end it all.

I know that`s not what Travis would want. It`s not what anyone would want. But it`s not their life. It`s mine. And I care not for it at this moment in time. I know I shouldn`t be ungrateful, but the loss of my dear friend brings pain that is too much to bear. Who? Why? How?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why? Why? Why? I mean only she can answer that question. I got to throw a tough one at the defense. Rene Sandler she`s lying in her journal entry. She`s a pathological liar. She said she wasn`t there. Then she said two masked ninjas broke in and killed Travis before finally, after being confronted with a bloody palm print and then, yes, I was there.

Then she brings in this whole story of I`m a battered woman and did it in self-defense. How is it that you can believe anything that is based on a journal that we know has lies in it?

RENE SANDLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all, this defendant did something very courageous, and we have to give her credit for this, even though you don`t want to, and that is she took the stand and she owned her lies.

The domestic violence expert is going to be cross examined on these lies in the journal entry. And ultimately as we all know, it`s up to the jury to decide what to believe. What is true? What is not? And how to reconcile it?

But this defendant, like it or not, stood up there, took the stand and courageously accepted her lies.



SANDLER: Yes, she is.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: She took the stand to try and save her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.

LEIBERMAN: She took the stand to try and come off as sympathetic, to try and come off as the nice, you know, good looking, this and that. That`s why she took the stand. It wasn`t courageous.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She took the stand to defend herself.

LEIBERMAN: She was trying to save her life.

WEINTRAUB: As is her right. As is everybody`s right, number one. And number two, Jane --


LEIBERMAN: You`re right. It`s absolutely her right to take the stand.

WEINTRAUB: -- it`s not that she`s demented. Jane she is obviously, obviously a disturbed woman. Somebody who stabbed another person 29 times, that`s not just to kill somebody. That is venge -- revenge. That is hatred. That is despicable, getting back for all that was done to her. And you can`t deny that.


LEIBERMAN: Oh come on.

WEINTRAUB: You can`t deny that. There`s no getting --

HONOWITZ: Well, wait a second.

LEIBERMAN: So anybody who has been wronged can stab somebody 29 times and shoot them twice?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub is supposedly -- Jayne, you`re supposedly for the defense, but you`re sounding like you`re making a prosecution argument that she killed him in revenge because he was taking another woman to Cancun and she was angry. It sounds like you`re making the prosecution`s case.

WEINTRAUB: No, what I`m saying is when he pushed her buttons and she lost it, she was going to defend herself and make sure it never happened again, with every stab wound. I`ve had it, I`m not taking this. You`re not doing this to me.

HONOWITZ: Oh my God.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz -- one second.

HONOWITZ: For what? Being called a skank? One second -- you don`t kill someone for calling you a skank. That`s the bottom line. That`s it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would be dead. Let`s put it that way. All right, more on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just got a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had a gun --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. Yes, she just got it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she mention --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Glock or something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. She just told me she got a gun. I said what do you need a gun for? She said where I`m going I might need one. I said where you going? Well, I can`t tell you. Because I just want to feel safe -- she said I just want to feel safe where I go.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, back to the Jodi Arias trial in a moment. But first, an airport takedown -- an off-duty police officer coming to the rescue of a TSA agent at Honolulu Airport. You can see a woman attacking the agent on the left. And then from the right, police officers leap over a barrier and they slam the suspect to the ground. She`s apparently trying to force her way through a section designated for flight personnel and was arrested for assault. Bad idea, lady.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecutor is saying that he believes Jodi Arias is flat-out lying when she claimed she grabbed Travis Alexander`s gun. The gun has never been found and there was no ammo inside his apartment.

ARIAS: I ran into the closet and I slammed the door. I remembered where he kept a gun, so I grabbed it. I jumped up on a shelf; he kept it on the top.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what is the likelihood of somebody who owns a gun not keeping ammunition?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: 50 rounds in a box. So, how many bullets in a typical .25?

DICKERSON: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Usually between six to seven rounds in an average .25 caliber.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So you would have like 40 bullets leftover that you would have to keep somewhere. You`re not going to go out and buy -- you don`t buy these individually, right?

DICKER: You cannot buy them individually.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You cannot buy them individually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You misreported a gun stolen -- .25 auto. Just happens to be the same caliber as the weapon used to kill him.

ARIAS: A .25 auto was used to kill Travis?

DICKERSON: If there was no ammunition associated with the gun, it would be unlikely. You`d have to explain why there wasn`t any ammunition.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, if in fact Travis Alexander had a gun as Jodi Arias claims, where is the rest of the ammo?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman has that point, which is a common sense point. She claimed she grabbed the gun from Travis Alexander`s closet. Previously she had said Travis didn`t own a gun and they never found any ammo. But are those common sense points lost in all of this nonsense about "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" going on for days?

LEIBERMAN: No, they won`t be lost because in closing Mr. Martinez is going to tie it all tight. I wouldn`t be surprised if he goes down the line of each and every lie that Jodi Arias has told, including about the gun. You just said, Jane, her story has changed three times about the gun and whether it was loaded or not loaded, whether she ever saw Travis shoot it, whether she ever saw Travis with a gun, in the closet -- I mean.

So at closing, this is where Mr. Martinez will tie it all up, run down all the lies. And at that point it should be an easy decision for the jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just wonder if -- I mean I can`t even remember the beginning of the trial. It`s been months ago. I just -- the length of this disturbs me.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. John, Canada -- your question or thought -- John?

JOHN, CANADA (via telephone): Well, I have a few questions. One is the situation with her driving to the desert with gas in her trunk. I lived in Arizona for six months. Every time we took a trip to the desert, we always carried gas in the trunk because it was more dangerous to run out of gas. The only danger of gas in the trunk is if somebody rear ends you, which is not going to happen in the desert. You don`t want to drive with a gas can in your trunk in the city. But every time we went some place --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to jump in right there. Because I lived in California for 18 years and I drove all the way through the desert. I never had a gas can. Of course, I did drive a Prius, but nonetheless, there are gas stations off of the major freeways. You can go from L.A. to Phoenix. There`s the 10. There`s gas stations every couple of, you know, just like there`s rest areas.

I mean we got to use our common sense. We all live in the same America. We know that you don`t run out of gas, people, in southern California or Arizona anymore.

More on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day". Send your pet pics to Suzie -- she`s got a little toy. She says it`s mine. You can`t have it. No. Oh, Pierre, you are adorable, oh magnifique. Oh, Fred -- Fred is serious. And he says I still like to have a little plush toy there. I`m not that serious. And look at Crisp. He`s little, and he`s a little bundle of joy. Oh.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis, oh my God.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there you have it, Travis Alexander goofing around with his buddy Dave Hall when he was enjoying life before his life was taken away from him. And these photos of Travis with a gun were provided by Dave Hall, who says it proves that he didn`t own a gun because every time he went target practice with Dave Hall, he borrowed a gun from Dave because he didn`t have a gun.

Let`s debate this with our expert panel. But I want to start with Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist. Do you think we`ve lost sight of Travis? Here`s Travis on a four-wheeler. Do you think the prosecution should bring it back to Travis was a human being and show some of these videos that we`ve obtained of Travis the man?

GARDERE: Absolutely. Because all we`ve heard is Travis is not perfect, Travis is an abuser, he was a sex fiend, and so we`ve lost sight of the fact that he was a human being. He was a young person who did the things that young people do and they don`t always behave perfectly. So it is the job of the prosecution to remind the jurors that this was a human being who had foibles who was viciously killed.

And Travis also loved animals, by the way. His dog Napoleon is being cared for by a friend. By the way, Travis also fought against factory farming conditions. And little wrinkle, on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about a subject near and dear to Travis Alexander`s heart. Stay right there.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tetrick says Hampton Creek has improved on the egg. It`s called Beyond Eggs.

JOSH TETRICK, CEO, HAMPTON CREEK FOODS: These chickens are fed massive amounts of soy and massive amounts of corn, which require massive amounts of fertilizer, which require massive amounts of oil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 51 percent of climate change emissions can be attributed to livestock.

TETRICK: We want to create a whole new model that makes the current system obsolete.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, little Rico, did you know that in the United States alone, about nine billion -- with a B -- farm animals are raised and killed for food every year, most of them in factory farm conditions. We`re talking about pigs and cows who have feelings just like you, Little Rico.

Now one of the smartest men on the planet, Bill Gates, who helped bring us the computer revolution, wants to revolutionize our eating habits. Recently Bill Gates posted on Facebook, "we need to start thinking about the future of food if we`re going to feed nine billion people in a way that does not destroy our environment."

Yes, studies show meat production is a leading cause of climate change. Critics point out the overconsumption of animal fat is a big factor in the obesity crisis. And that`s causing our health costs to skyrocket, costing you the taxpayer a lot of money.

And now Bill Gates is focusing on the future of food. He`s picked three companies that could change everything. One of them is Hampton Creek Foods, instead of factory farmed egg production, they`re creating a new kind of egg, and their product Beyond Eggs is a game changer.

Straight out to Josh Tetrick, CEO and founder of Hampton Creek Foods. Josh, thanks for joining us. What are you creating and how will it change what we eat?

TETRICK: Jane, your viewers might not know, but our food system is just so invisible and there`s hardly any part of our food system that is more invisible than the egg industry. All of these birds are crammed into these cages so small they can`t flap their wings.

And at Hampton Creek Foods, we think that`s absurd. So we`re taking the animal entirely out of the equation and replacing it with plants.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you have scientists and chemists and molecular biologists who are working to create this perfect beyond egg product. You also have a former top chef contestant. Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An egg is such a miraculous thing. And all the culinarians understand what it really does in a recipe. So working with vegetable products, all natural products to try to make what an egg does is challenging.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So bottom line, briefly, you`re going to have the same nutritional value, but zero cholesterol. It`s going to cost less and it`s going to taste the same, yes?

TETRICK: That`s right. And why not have exactly the same thing when you don`t need to be destructive to the environment, when you don`t need to imperil the lives and welfare of animals. We give people exactly -- actually the same thing (inaudible); Mayonnaise that they can spread all over their sandwiches, but without the harmful effects of eggs.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bill Gates is a big thinker. Check out this video from Bill Gates, "The Future of Food".


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Producing one kilogram of beef requires 150 square meters of land and 15,000 liters of water most of which is used to grow feed for the animal. And producing that same kilogram of beef generates 27 kilograms of CO2. That`s the equivalent of driving your car more than 100 miles.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s also about ending world hunger. Tell us quickly.

TETRICK: It`s pretty silly, Jane, that animals that we eat actually consume more food than the 1.3 billion people that go to bed hungry every single night. These chickens are fed massive amounts of soy and massive amounts of corn. Wouldn`t all that food be better in the mouths of these people that are hungry?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re doing great work. It`s the future of food. You could Google it. Bill Gates is behind it. He`s a very smart man. When you`re talking about climate change, ending world hunger, ending obesity, lowering our health costs -- it`s all there.

It is, Rico.

Nancy Grace next.