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PIERS MORGAN LIVE
Inside North Korea; Interview with Kid Rock
Aired April 12, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, a madman in North Korea -- the young leader and his military machine and the growing threat of nuclear armed warheads. We'll take you inside the bizarre rogue nation.
Plus, say what? Kid Rock is slamming his own Republican Party. He's calling it an embarrassment. My interview with the bad boy who doesn't hold back, on power, money and guns.
KID ROCK, MUSICIAN: When I go to Detroit, I never leave Detroit without my guns.
MORGAN: (INAUDIBLE) blue eyes just think it's a song.
His way, the legendary Paul Anka.
PAUL ANKA, MUSICIAN: I was there. I saw it. I lived it. I breathed it.
MORGAN: And his extraordinary life, and what Sinatra was really like.
ANKA: Sure, Frank loved to have a good time. How could he not like women? Every time you turned around, they were throwing themselves at him.
MORGAN: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE.
Tonight, growing fears that North Korea isn't backing down. John Kerry across the border in South Korea says the U.S. will not accept the rogue nation as a nuclear power. At the same time, North Korea's reportedly warning Japan it will strike Tokyo first.
North Korea is cut off and armed to the teeth. Life there is surreal and cruel, (INAUDIBLE) immeasurably suffering, with a million starving in a very strange and very dangerous country.
With me now is Victor Cha. He's former director of Asian affairs with the National Security Council.
Robert Gallucci is former chief North Korean negotiator for President Clinton.
And, John Sifton, Asia advocacy director for human rights.
Welcome to you all, gentlemen.
Robert Gallucci, you've been in this position on behalf of President Clinton as the chief negotiator with North Korea. What would you be doing right now, if you were in that job now?
ROBERT GALLUCCI, FORMER CHIEF NORTH KOREAN NEGOTIATOR FOR PRESIDENT CLINTON: If I was in that job now, I would probably be sitting in Washington waiting for the current crisis to pass. I don't think it is plausible, no matter how enthusiastic one might be, for negotiations with North Korea as a method of settling it by nonviolent means. I don't think it's plausible that in this atmosphere, one would be negotiating.
The North is maybe doing any number of things with the current threats, and activity. One of them clearly is to raise the threshold here for negotiation eventually, so that they have brought fear to the region and elsewhere, so that someone who is at the table with the North will be willing to trade. And that's not an environment in which one wants to start a negotiation.
MORGAN: Victor Cha, do you share that view? Do you think there's a lot of bluff and posturing going on? Or is there, as some people, a chance that this could be more serious?
VICTOR CHA, FORMER DIR., ASIAN AFFAIRS AT NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: I think it sounds kind of similar, piers, but I think there is something different this time. First, we have a new young, inexperienced leadership that seems to be pushing the envelope and doesn't know where the red line is.
Secondly, the level of rhetoric we've seen from North Korea compared to what we've seen in the past, you know, in 1994 when Bob was negotiating, and also in 2005, 2007, they are way off the scale in terms of their rhetoric. And of course, the actions, the fact that they're standing up missiles, pointing them in the direction of the Korean peninsula, in Japan and U.S. territories, I think these are all signs that things are a little bit different.
And finally, they did a set of tests last December, in February, December of 2012 and February 2013, that showed successful demonstration of a longer-range ballistic missile launch capability than they've ever shown in the past. And based on the seismic signature, what appears to be a more successful nuclear test.
So, I think folks are much more concerned now that they're getting closer to this decades long objective to develop a nuclear- tipped ballistic missile that could reach the United States. They're not there yet, but they're on their way and there's nothing that's stopping them right now.
MORGAN: The situation is that North Korea's two medium-range missiles remain fueled and ready to fire on the country's east coast. There's been no heightened movement or activity in the country's military that would suggest an imminent rocket launch.
Let me turn to you, John Sifton, if I may, about the culture inside North Korea. This is a very strange country, as well as being a pretty dangerous country. Everyone there when they're born gets given a number. What is the significance of that?
JOHN SIFTON, ASIA ADVOCACY DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Well, the amazing thing about north Korea is that it takes totalitarianism to an entirely new level, and besides all the control and the repression, there's a classification system that is superimposed on the entire society. You're literally born into a station in life and the rest of your life is dictated by that station.
Hundreds of thousands of people are sent to gulag, to work camps of different orders. There are mobile work camps for lesser offenses, misdemeanors, and lifetime, you know, you can spend the rest of your life in a penal camp if you do something really, really bad. So, this is how most North Koreans live.
And yet, the media feed out of the capital, some of the visits by notable people, none of that really gets seen by these visitors. The real day-to-day life I think remains under wraps.
MORGAN: Robert, in terms of oddities about North Korea, another one is this sort of uniformity of even haircuts, as only a few approved haircuts for the people of North Korea. It is really, as John was saying there, totalitarianism gone crackers, isn't it?
GALLUCCI: It is an unusual place. If negotiating with North Koreans, one is acutely aware that one is not dealing with Canadians or anyone else that is in a normal range, as both of my colleagues said. All that makes the situation more dangerous.
I think if there's one thing everybody's concerned about, it is someone making a miscalculation. This young man, who is the totalitarian leader, presumably with some influence from his relatives, is outside of the normal range of diplomatic leadership.
I think we're fortunate that in South Korea we have -- well, she's a new president. She's quite experienced, President Park. That's a good thing in a time of crisis. But what you're referring to here, this uniformity, the totalitarianism, all this creates an atmosphere in which, as much as we want to dismiss the bluster, it wouldn't be a wise thing to do.
MORGAN: Victor Cha, a lot of American comedians have had a lot of fun at Kim Jong Un's expense. And generally at North Korea. But that probably doesn't help in a country where saving face and honor are extremely important to the leadership here.
I mean, what should the American administration led by, say, John Kerry in South Korea, how should they be conducting themselves directly with the North Koreans would you say?
CHA: Well, I think, right now, I would agree with what Bob said earlier. Right now, for any U.S. administration and Secretary Kerry, it's difficult at this point given the threats that have been made against the United States specifically, and U.S. cities specifically, it's difficult to advocate any sort of direct diplomacy.
I think the Obama administration has been pretty clear that they're open though that at the right time, when the North shows some sort of commitment to getting back on a negotiation track. I think a lot of the action now really falls to China, in the sense that China seems to be upset with what the North Koreans have done. Their third nuclear test, signed on to a Chapter 7 resolution, and hopefully will enforce the sanctions that would put pressure on the North Koreans to stop this sort of provocation and come back to the negotiation table to re-implement the agreements that were negotiated in 2005 and 2007.
And then the other is, of course, South Korea, as Bob mentioned, you have a new South Korean leader. She does want to improve relations with the North, but certainly not on the North's terms. She's quite experienced. She's the only South Korean leader to enter the office of president who has already visited North Korea and met with past North Korean leaders.
So, she's no novice when it comes to this. I think when she visits Washington in the first week of May, many here will be very interested to hear what her plan is going forward on this problem.
MORGAN: John Sifton, going back to the lifestyle of the North Koreans, you know, a lot of poverty there, abject poverty. There is a belief that people are physically smaller, the further they are from Pyongyang, because of malnutrition. Is that true, as far as you're aware?
SIFTON: Yes. One of the most amazing things is the malnutrition, the acute malnutrition that's going on. A lot of people think about the crimes against humanity, and they think of kinetic force, you think of violence. But the fact is in North Korea, the crimes against humanity were starvation.
In the '90s, somewhere between half a million and 1.1 million people died as a direct result of poor governance, and decisions by the North Korean regime to withhold aid or divert aid, divert food from certain North Koreans and give it instead to the military.
o we think Secretary Kerry and the U.S. government generally are missing a huge opportunity to showcase this and highlight it and push the North Korean regime not just to abandon its nuclear program, but to close the gulags and begin on the path of reform. And it certainly won't cause any problems with the negotiations because there are no negotiations. They're already being provocative by speaking about reunification.
Secretary Kerry spoke about that in Seoul today. So it's not going to add to the temperature at all to talk about closing the gulags and everything else. This is an open-and-shut case as far as we're concerned. President Roosevelt spoke about the human rights abuses of the Axis powers. This is the kind of thing you do when you're speaking about a recalcitrant enemy.
John Sifton and Robert Gallucci and Victor, thank you all very much indeed,
CHA: Thank you.
SIFTON: Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming next, Kid Rock (INAUDIBLE) completely honest, American original. What he has to say about Obama, the GOP and about money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KID ROCK: I also want to say -- I also want to be real clear, that I'm very proud to say that we have had elected our first black president. All right? I'm sorry. All right. I'm sorry he didn't do a better job. I really -- I really wish that he would have, I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Kid Rock at the Romney-Ryan event last year. He was one of my very first guests back in January, 2011. We had a conversation (INAUDIBLE). We talked politics. We drank his bad ass beer. And he came out with this afterwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KID ROCK: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is Piers Morgan?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: We'll discuss that in a moment, Mr. Rock.
Anyway, he's now getting ready to go back out on the road and he's promising fans their best night ever without going broke.
Joining me again is Kid Rock.
How are you?
KID ROCK: Good. Nice to see you again.
MORGAN: So you were actually the very first interview I -- I conducted for CNN.
KID ROCK: Yes.
MORGAN: It wasn't the first to air, it was the first one I did. And you gave that legendary promo --
MORGAN: -- "Who the bleep is Piers Morgan?"
I was very gratified that you introduced yourself to me by name today and said, hello, Piers. KID ROCK: You've come a long way. Congrats --
KID ROCK: Congratulations.
MORGAN: Now, look, I --
KID ROCK: Welcome to American pop culture.
MORGAN: Thank you. I feel like I've made it. If Kid Rock knows who I am, I feel like I've made it.
Let's get serious. I love your, uh, promotional ticket tour thing. You've got 29 concerts, an American tour. Ticket prices would normally, I guess, have been between, I don't know, $30 or $40, $100 (ph). You've decided to nail your mark to a flat fee of $20 and $4 a beer, for a 12 ounce guzzle of beer.
Why are you doing it and what do you hope to achieve?
KID ROCK: It's gotten out of hand. The price of concerts, the price of entertainment period. You know, whether it's a sporting event, going to the movies, buying a soda there, whatever.
And what do I do?
Obviously, I'm a musician. I play concerts.
I've been very fortunate. I've always tried to keep prices what I think are fair. And I've always said I'm proud that I could walk around with my head held high and look someone in the eye, knowing that I haven't taken an un-honest dollar from a working man.
But how can we make it better?
Well, the artists come in and -- and say we want to get paid this much to show up, which is usually an astronomical -- a lot of money.
And I -- I went with Live Nation. I said, how can we just go in, take everything -- the beer, the parking, how -- whatever the price of tickets are and put it in a pot, split it up fairly based on the number of people that come. And they're like, you're going to have to take a pay cut.
No problem. I make a lot of money. I can take a pay cut. All my friends are taking pay cuts that are in the unions, that are -- that are farming in Alabama or whatever it is. I can surely take a pay cut, too, not cutting down my show or -- or the people that work for me, I can take a pay cut.
MORGAN: Do you know how much this is all going to cost you, too?
KID ROCK: It could be from $50,000 to $100,000 a night, it looks like. But, you know, if we do the numbers, it's not going to be that much. But, you know, if 5,000 people show up, it's going to be a long summer.
KID ROCK: But somebody has got to try it. I'm in a position where I can.
MORGAN: Justin Timberlake and Jay-Z, apparently their highest ticket prices for their shows are going for about $225 each. And there is a --
KID ROCK: It's garbage.
MORGAN: They're taking family. I mean what do you think when people --
KID ROCK: It's garbage. It's garbage. It's highway robbery. I don't care who you are, you know?
I would -- I would consider both of them, you know -- you know, in a circle of friends in the business, but I don't agree with it one -- well, I -- I know sometimes the market determines that. So, we're going to -- so what I'm going to do for that is I'm going to scalp 1,000 of my own tickets. There is a market for it.
I'm going to tell people, a lot of artists already do it. I think I've been guilty of it in the past, too. We take some of our tickets, we put them on StubHub, overcharge with what the market determines they're worth. I'm -- I'm charging -- I'm taking 1,000 of them and I'm scalping them.
So if you want to be guaranteed a ticket -- because sometimes you buy them from a scalper, you get there, there's already someone in your seat.
So the way to do that, hey, be transparent with people, let them know. You know, it's $4 for a beer. T-shirts are going to be $20. We're going to -- people are going to be pleasantly surprised when they come in there and they see, you know, four hot dogs and two Cokes for $20, when you can get all -- we're going to get all -- we're going to give free coffee at the end.
I've got Jimmy John's, you know, who's a --
MORGAN: Free coffee as well?
KID ROCK: Free coffee, as well.
MORGAN: That's just fantastic.
KID ROCK: We have free subs outside in certain markets. You know, Jimmy John's agreed to do tastings of them there, you know?
My sponsors, Harley Davis and Jim Beam, help to keep the ticket prices low to be able to advertise in there and things like that.
So I'm just trying to go above and beyond to make it -- you know, I'm crossing my fingers that it works, that people -- that they're really looking for a good night of entertainment.
It's not just me. The first leg of the tour is me, Kool & the Gang and Uncle Kracker. The second leg is me, ZZ Top and Uncle Kracker, $20, every frigging seat, 90 -- 90 some percent of the seats.
MORGAN: That's amazing.
You'd think it's predominantly, I guess, because you have sensed that the economy in America, for many people, is still very tough.
KID ROCK: I live in Clarkston, Michigan. I've -- I've -- you know, I have -- I have a home near Malibu. And if I lived there full- time, I wouldn't be thinking the way I'm thinking.
But living in a small town in Michigan, obviously, we've been hit very, very hard over -- over the last several years, harder than I dare say anybody, though, around the Detroit area has in America. And, you know, I see it every day with my friends, so it's just --
MORGAN: And what do you see?
What is the reality --
KID ROCK: People --
MORGAN: -- of America right now?
KID ROCK: I mean it's embarrassing. You have people who you think were middle class and have families and one day their house is gone. And they were embarrassed to tell you or to ask you for help. That's one of the biggest things I've seen, you know, in my home town, in where I live. It's a --
MORGAN: What do you make of the dysfunction in Washington, where they can't seem to get any kind of budget deals done, any kind of economic plan sorted, nothing?
KID ROCK: Oh, they're -- they're out of their frickin' minds. I mean people are so upset with them, and rightfully so, me included, that everything has to be so damn extreme. You know, I don't think anybody wants a bunch of pot-smoking hippies running the country and nobody wants a bunch of crazy Bible thumpers running it either.
Most of us that are rational thinkers say, hey, there's room to come together on all this stuff. You know, and everyone takes everything out of context. They bring up their own stats, which nobody knows. Everything is totally confusing. A common man, even like myself, I don't know how to pay my taxes.
MORGAN: Do you feel the gap between the rich and poor is just widening all the time now?
KID ROCK: I think so. But I don't think -- I don't think the rich should be demonized over it, because I -- I -- you know, I know a lot of rich people, obviously, at this point. I know a lot of poorer people, too, with, you know, all over the board. But, you know, I -- I still see a lot of the private sector people, my friends are doing a lot of good, especially in Detroit. You look at the big names there. They do tons of good -- millions and millions of dollars, more than the government could ever tax them.
But at the same time, you have a very corrupt government there, where people are scared to help that out. And, really, what I think it boils down to, above -- above everything else, is family, family structure. I don't care what you're talking about nowadays. If you're talking about politics, you're talking about guns, any of the hot topics going on, it comes down to family, you know, and having a family.
Some say that -- and a family could be a community, you know, people that are around that help raise you, this, that and the other. The lack of the family, you know, presence is paralyzing this country, I think.
MORGAN: Let's take a little break.
Let's come back and talk more about those hot button topics. I want to talk to you about guns, gays, God, abortion, Clint Eastwood, anything else I can think of --
KID ROCK: See you later --
MORGAN: -- for a few minutes.
KID ROCK: I'm out.
MORGAN: Kid Rock's smash hit, "All Summer Long." And I'm back now with --
KID ROCK: Can't we just talk about fun stuff, girls and lakes, summertime?
MORGAN: We can come to girls in a moment, don't you worry. You -- you know me. I'll get to the girls.
But let's talk, first of all, you're -- you're a fascinating creature, politically, because you're pro-gay marriage -- and stop me if I get any of these wrong.
KID ROCK: Yes.
MORGAN: You're pro-choice when it comes to abortion. You're pro-guns, though, on that side of the debate. We'll talk about that in a moment.
You supported Obama in '08. You actually performed at his inauguration. Then you switched to Romney.
How would you describe where you are politically now?
KID ROCK: I'm pretty confused, though.
KID ROCK: I don't know, but I just, you know, I -- I've always tried not to be so vocal about it, because it always -- when I see celebrities talking about it, I'm just like oh, man, stop talking.
And, of course, what am I doing?
I'm up there like vote for Romney.
But, I don't know. You know, you -- you grow, you learn, you -- you -- people seem to be interested in what you have to say. I don't know. I'm sure some people are. I'm sure the majority aren't, you know?
MORGAN: Why did you give up on Obama?
KID ROCK: Just the whole way things were going with -- especially just -- just separating the country even more. It seems like it was a time when everyone should really have been coming together over such a great thing.
MORGAN: But was that his fault?
KID ROCK: Someone's got to take the blame. It's always the guy at the top. If we have a bad show and my guitar player screws it up, no one says, oh, the guitar player screwed it up. They said Kid Rock screwed up (ph).
MORGAN: Right. Right.
KID ROCK: That's just kind of the nature of things.
MORGAN: I know that feeling, don't worry.
KID ROCK: Yes. Right.
MORGAN: I get it every night from my producers.
MORGAN: Let's go through some of these -- these things. On the -- on the gay rights, gay marriage thing, are you from the -- you couldn't really give a damn category?
KID ROCK: I don't care. I don't care.
MORGAN: Because I am.
KID ROCK: I don't care. I'm Catholic. I -- I don't think --
MORGAN: Me, too.
KID ROCK: -- I really don't think it's right, you know, because I think a man and a woman and creating a child, there's something to be said for that. And we've got -- but, I mean, if people are going to make this much of a stink over it, we've got much more problems -- we've got way bigger problems.
I mean, I'm conflicted with -- with internally how I feel myself with it. But, you know, if people want to get married, go for it.
MORGAN: You see, I have no problem with that.
KID ROCK: I like to joke that everyone should be able to be miserable.
MORGAN: Pro-choice is interesting, though.
KID ROCK: Yes.
MORGAN: There aren't many Republicans who would be pro-choice.
KID ROCK: I think it's a -- I just think it's a -- it's a woman's right.
MORGAN: Full stop?
KID ROCK: It's very touchy, but I think at the end of the day, man, it's got to fall on the woman, you know?
MORGAN: Guns. You are pro-gun. Are you in favor of any gun control?
KID ROCK: The only thing I could think of that might work -- no, I'm not for gun control. At this point -- it's a long conversation, but I'll give you one thing I thought of. And I was actually thinking this today.
I thought you might bring this up -- is maybe it's family. This comes back to family structure. I know someone in my family who probably shouldn't have assault weapons or, you know, big guns. Maybe they should have a home protection if they want it, but that's it.
So maybe as a family member, I should get like my mom, my dad, maybe an uncle. Maybe there should be four or five of us that flag him.
KID ROCK: That flag him, so when he goes in and tries to get this gun, he's been flagged by his family, you know what I mean?
And then he has to go through something to be evaluated. We're really talking about mental health, right? At the end of the day, is what -- is what I feel. We're talking about mental health.
MORGAN: Do you own a lot of guns yourself?
KID ROCK: Yes, tons.
MORGAN: Would you consider yourself to be safe with them?
KID ROCK: Yes.
MORGAN: Why do you trust 315 million other Americans to be equally safe with them?
Why do feel comfortable that --
KID ROCK: Because I've got one.
MORGAN: It's as simple as that?
KID ROCK: Yes.
MORGAN: So you think you need to have one for protection?
KID ROCK: I need to have one. When I go to Detroit, I never come into Detroit without my gun, ever, right by my side, loaded, ready.
MORGAN: And you wouldn't hesitate to use it?
KID ROCK: No, not at all.
MORGAN: But is that healthy for a -- for a society, especially a superpower --
KID ROCK: -- that's just the way it is. You know, it's -- it's like getting into a conversation about racism. Is it done because we've got a black president?
No. It's always going to be here. We have to just learn better ways to deal with it.
You know, everyone needs to calm down. You know, let's calm down --
MORGAN: But it's --
KID ROCK: -- and take these tragedies for what they are and try to learn something more about them than just, you know -- you know, finding a -- a henchman or something.
MORGAN: But it's easy to say calm down.
What if you're one of the families from Sandy Hook school?
KID ROCK: Well, I think there's families on both sides, from what I've read. There's families that are we've got to control guns more and there's families that are that's not --
MORGAN: That's true.
KID ROCK: So like I said, I think there's a conversation to be had, an open and honest one, which seems to -- which seems like we don't have too many of these these days in America.
MORGAN: There's very little compromise, is there?
KID ROCK: Yes, and people are -- get so up in arms and get so hell bent one way or the other.
You know, it's like, you know, when I did the Romney thing. So many people got their panties in a bunch. And as a musician, you know, as a rock and roll musician, you -- you want to find ways to piss off -- piss people off.
If I'd have known people got up so upset, I'd have gotten into politics years ago.
KID ROCK: It makes people so upset. I mean look, but at the end of the day, really, it's like, come on, it's OK to have a different viewpoint and to voice it.
MORGAN: You met Obama after he won again --
KID ROCK: Yes.
MORGAN: -- and Romney had lost?
KID ROCK: That was fun.
MORGAN: Did he -- did he have a little joke at your expense?
KID ROCK: He was -- I've always said this about Obama no matter what, he's cool.
You know, I've got -- I've been fortunate enough to pretty much meet all the living presidents. There's not one cooler than Obama. Actually, people hate that I say this, but George Bush is actually pretty cool, a pretty funny guy. But Obama is just drop down cool.
MORGAN: What -- what did he say to you when he saw you again?
KID ROCK: He probably said, you know, I think when I popped up in the receiving line, I was like -- he's like, Kid Rock, and I'm like, hey, man --
KID ROCK: No hard feelings. He's like, I won. I'm like, damn it, I know. It was all fun and games. I mean I can't imagine what those guys deal with of just punching each other in the head, you know, over -- over what -- their beliefs and this, that and the other in politics. And then they probably go sit down and have a ham sandwich, you know?
MORGAN: Let's take another break, come back and talk about pot. We haven't discussed legalizing pot.
KID ROCK: We should.
MORGAN: And Clint Eastwood, and his the performance at the Republican Convention, where many thought he was on pot.
KID ROCK: I thought he was great.
MORGAN: We'll bring back Kid Rock. Joining us now is Live Nation Entertainment CEO Michael Rapino. Michael, welcome to you. So that moment when Kid Rock says I've got a great idea; we're not going to charge 200 dollars a ticket, we're going to charge 20 dollars a ticket, did you have a heart attack? What goes on in that moment?
MICHAEL RAPINO, LIVE NATION ENTERTAINMENT CEO: Because it came from Kid, it was expected. But, you know, all kidding aside, we had a dinner in Malibu and we talked about the tour. I've done many of his tours. And we talked about, we know what autopilot is. We can continue do it and charge too much probably. And let's try to break some of the rules.
Kid is an innovator. He wanted to think about the fans. We were talking about how we make a difference this summer.
MORGAN: A big gamble, though, isn't it?
RAPINO: I will say we left that night -- I've had many of those dinners. And then usually the call comes back and says let's get back at the routine. He did call me a couple days later and said, I put it together, I got the idea, it's 20 dollars. Let's make a difference. Let's help out the fans. Let's be different.
KID ROCK: I said, what's 20 dollars? He said, everything.
RAPINO: Yes, I said that. Yes. So you know what, he said, are you in? And I said, you know what, Kid, the business needs to change. We need to be the example. And if you're willing, because really the artist sets the price. If you're --
MORGAN: Will others follow? Because, you know, I can't imagine Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift watching this and going, that's a great idea, going to their manager and saying let's charge 20 dollars a ticket. RAPINO: Well, you know --
MORGAN: Or the Rolling Stones.
RAPINO: Listen, the business is different. One shoe doesn't fit all. But I will say this, the smart ones, the ones that have been around for a long time, or plan on being around for a long time, guys like Kid, guys like Bruce Springsteen, are starting to realize that the fan does matter, and that ticket prices have to start coming along.
MORGAN: And the business model has completely changed. It's all about touring now to make proper money.
KID ROCK: It's always been. Money's really -- you know, song writing, yes, there's money to be made and things like that. But really, when you talk about the real money, you talk about touring. No question.
MORGAN: Let's turn to drugs.
KID ROCK: You got some?
MORGAN: That's what Willie Nelson said. The marijuana debate, we could be in a situation soon where marijuana is basically legal in most states in America. Good thing?
KID ROCK: Legalize it, tax the hell out of it.
MORGAN: Simple as that?
KID ROCK: Yeah. Who went for it? I know lots of people that smoke lots of pot. They don't get a lot done. But there's other people that smoke in their leisure time, hit a joint now and then, and they're fine. It's everyone's different, man, especially when it comes to drugs. One thing I've learned from being in a band, I've done drugs now and then. Some people can handle it, some people fly off the rail. How do you dictate that? You don't. You let people find out for themselves. If they screw up, you throw them in jail or you try to get them some treatment.
Other than that, legalize it and tax the hell out of it.
MORGAN: How old is your boy now?
KID ROCK: Twenty. He'll be 20 soon.
MORGAN: What did you say to him about drugs?
KID ROCK: Careful.
MORGAN: Not, don't do it?
KID ROCK: No, because remember that time I came home, fell down, I think it was Christmas Eve, slept on the bathroom floor. I did drugs that night. You didn't like that, did you? No, it scared me. Yes, that's what happens sometime.
MORGAN: You're a living warning, basically?
KID ROCK: Kind of, yeah. He's going to make decisions at the end of the day. If he's got questions, he knows I'm there to answer them for him. Because I think he has enough information from being raised in the household that he was in. You know, I just say anybody's got to be careful. Because I don't know what makes people tick, but, you know, somebody can do a line of blow and they can go to work, everything's fine. The other person does it and is like, who do I sell this TV to and completely freaks out. And you're like, OK, that person, I'm just going to go out on a limb here, probably shouldn't be doing any drugs.
Should the other person? I don't know. That's up for them to decide.
MORGAN: Kid Rock's 27 city tour kicks on June the 28th. For more information, go to KidRock.com or LiveNation.com. I didn't ask you about Clint Eastwood.
KID ROCK: Love him.
MORGAN: He did a big Chrysler commercial. He then popped up at the Republican convention, like you, supporting Romney. Do you know him? Is he a mate?
KID ROCK: I got to have dinner with Clint and just become, you know, I'd say a friend over the last few years. People always say, like, he's a bad ass, this, that and the other. I'm like, he is. He totally is, like 100 percent. Just a great guy, down to earth. Great American, I'll call him. Love him.
MORGAN: Kid, great to see you again. I'm so glad you remembered my name this time. Good to see you. Good luck with the tour. I think everyone should go and watch Kid Rock. It's a great idea, 20 a ticket, four dollars for a beer. This is what people should be doing when America is suffering financially. I applaud you for it. Good luck with the tour. I'll be there.
KID ROCK: Thank you.
MORGAN: I'll be right back, too.
MORGAN: Paul Anka singing the song he wrote for Frank Sinatra, with backing from old Blue Eyes himself. Anka is a legendary singer, of course, and music icon. Since a teenager, he's sold tens of millions of records, decades as a superstar entertainer.
He's now out with "My Way," autobiography, and his latest album, "Paul Anka Duets." Paul, welcome to you.
PAUL ANKA, SINGER/SONGWRITER: Good to be here.
MORGAN: I've wanted to interview you for a long time.
ANKA: Waving at you in restaurants did not do it for me.
MORGAN: We keep meeting in these places. And you've always been very kind to me. But it's a riveting book. For anyone like me that loves that era, those songs, those guys, the Rat Pack and onwards, it's just a delicious romp through that period. What made you write it?
ANKA: Well, I'd wrestled with perhaps doing a book one day. The editor of St. Marks came to me and they had heard that I was interested in doing a book. Thus I sat down and I felt, well, here I am approaching 70, and by the time I got around to it, I'd probably be too old to remember anything. So I figured I better get this done right now.
And it's something that was always on the radar for me. And I just thought about, well, you know, how much do I want to open the veins? How much do I want to tell, knowing that today everybody's kind of BSing a little too much, and they never tell the truth about anything and it's fluff? Once I made the decision that I was going to tell it, I said, OK, we're going to do it. And it took me a couple of years to --
MORGAN: There's some brilliant story about people like Sinatra. He was notoriously private, hated stuff being written about him. Were you worried at all about that aspect? Not that he'd come back.
ANKA: He could.
MORGAN: That he wouldn't have liked you talking about him?
ANKA: No, not at all. I wasn't concerned whatsoever. You have to remember something, if you look at Frank Sinatra, indigenous to what you said, there's nobody in my business that I can even think of that's been in the press more than him. Right? There's nobody in this country. There's no other singer that's as good or has had the effect that Frank Sinatra has had, and still today.
When you say concerned, there's no confidences broken here. This isn't a book about "as told to," it's "as lived by." I was there. I saw it. I lived it. I breathed it. What I really tried to do in the book was the more I got to know him, Sammy Davis, those guys, the more I realized a lot of it was hearsay. That's what he didn't like.
And everything that's in the book is things that I've spoken to him about, things that I've witnessed, things that the honest guy that he was -- and this was a stand-up guy -- he would say, that's OK, it's the way I lived my life. And I promise you, there are no signs being torn down in Hoboken because of this book.
MORGAN: He was a very complicated character, Sinatra, wasn't he? He had quite a dark side to him, almost a depressive side. He could be quite punchy, hard drinking, with women. He never seemed to get women. A complex man. ANKA: Sounds like about a million guys I know. Has anybody solved that problem? Listen, because he was in the public eye, because he was Frank Sinatra, they overanalyzed him. He was a human being. What this book does, it really sends the message that me, the Rat Pack, all these performers that are idolized, they're human beings. They make mistakes.
Sure, Frank loved to have a good time. How could he not like women? Every time you turned around, they were throwing themselves at him. I didn't find him dark and complex, even though you knew there were other sides to him. But you really loved the fact that he was so straightforward and such a good guy and a gentleman.
MORGAN: I was in a restaurant in Beverly Hills, Madeo (ph), the other day with my three teenage sons, and I looked over and I saw you in the corner. I didn't get a chance to speak to you. But I said to them, guys, in the corner is the guy that wrote "My Way." At the time you wrote it, you'd been looking for a song to write for him. But at the time, Sinatra was going through a bit of a downturn in his career. He was getting a bit depressed about it, thinking even of packing it in.
ANKA: Well, he did. He was going to.
MORGAN: And enter Paul Anka with this iconic song. How did it come about?
ANKA: Well, he had always teased me for all the years that I knew him, all the guys -- I was the youngest. I don't profess to know him totally like others.
MORGAN: You were the kid.
ANKA: I was the kid. He would say to me, hey, kid, when are you going to write me a song? Well, you know, I couldn't. I was scared to death. You remember, I was writing all this teenage stuff. If I had given him "Puppy Love" or "Lonely Blue," he would have thrown me out of the steam room. Probably barred from the steam room.
It kind of manifested itself and worked subliminally. I lived a lot in Europe and I heard this melody in France. I brought it back and put it in the drawer. I was in Miami Beach doing the Fountain Blue hotel, which was the hang then, and he was there doing a film. He called me up and said, kid, we're going to dinner. When he says you're going to dinner, you drop everything and go to dinner. Right?
I show up at dinner and in the course of the meal, he said, kid, I'm getting out of the business, I'm retiring. I've had it, I'm fed up, too much going on, don't like it. Rat Pack's waning. I'm out. But I'm doing one more album with Don Costa, who was my producer.
And he said, you never wrote me that song. I came back to New York, where I was living at the time. I'm sitting up in my apartment, 1:00 in the morning. And I still cannot get my arms around the fact that Sinatra is leaving. I started typing, because I did that because I was a journalist back in Canada, a cub reporter. And I said, what would Frank do with this if he were writing it.
Metaphorically, I started creating this song as if Frank were writing it, and now the end is near, the final curtain. Wrote it until 5:00 in the morning. And at the end of it, I knew that I had something that I wouldn't be afraid to give him. I did a demonstration record. I flew out to Vegas where he was at Caesar's. I played it to him. I knew by the reaction that he gave me he was going to do it.
Fade out, fade in, I'm in New York two months later. The phone rings, Mr. Sinatra on the phone. He said, kid, listen to this. Took the phone, put it up to the speaker, I heard "My Way" for the first time. I started crying.
MORGAN: Amazing. "My Way," I'm told, is one of the most played songs in history.
MORGAN: And is literally being played somewhere in the world every second of every day.
ANKA: I hope so.
MORGAN: You must know the answer.
ANKA: Yes. I get the check.
MORGAN: Do you know how much money -- I hate to be so intrusive, because it's such a great statistic. How much has "My Way" on its own earned you over the years? Do you know?
ANKA: You know, I don't know. I have never looked into it to look at the gross number. You know, you're involved and you're writing. You're doing other stuff. It's earned a lot. It's the biggest karaoke song. I've been to China recently and they're singing it. You go to Russia with Putin, he loves "My Way." I'm singing "My Way" to him.
But to tell you the figure, I wish I could give you an accurate number.
MORGAN: But it's a fortune, right?
ANKA: I would imagine to most people it's a fortune. It's a fortune to me.
MORGAN: What are the other really big-earning songs that you've written? Didn't you write "The Tonight Show" -- so every time that gets played, it's a Ka-Ching for Mr. Anka.
ANKA: It's a Ka-Ching. And I didn't know about the Ka-Ching. And Johnny didn't know about the Ka-Ching. Because I was in England doing a TV special for Grenada. And it was a long show. And I just felt I need some humor. I said let's get a comic over here.
So somebody sent me a (inaudible) of this comic Johnny Carson. And I looked at the screen of the clip and it was about a guy that drank all night, but he had a kiddie show the next morning. So he showed up with a hangover and the kids are screaming. I thought it was hilarious.
We fly him over. We do the show together. I get back home and I run into him in New York. We said hey, how you doing? I said, what's up. He said, I'm taking over this show. I'm going to do it for a couple of years because I want to really get thing started. He said, I'm changing everything. He said, do you have a song? Me -- asking me do I have a song?
I came up with a song I had originally written for Annette, may she rest in peace. We lost a wonderful woman. Put it together, sent it to him. The conductor at the time, Piers, was a guy name named Skitch Henderson (ph), twice my age. And like "The Longest Day" where they didn't want me involved because of my age, he said we're not using that song. Who's that kid? He said, we can't use it.
So I said Johnny, listen, I really think it works. By the way, I forgot to tell you, I'm going to give you half the profits. All the profits, you take half. Well, Skitch Henderson did not like me. I gave him a piece of some that was better than nothing, right. And that guy couldn't even look at me every time I was around.
MORGAN: You've had an amazing life. You're married twice, six kids. One is a young boy.
ANKA: Seven years old. I have five girls and I have eight grandchildren. I married a Catholic woman with bad rhythm.
MORGAN: And if I could say to you, of all of the things that have happened, to crystallize -- outside of marriage and children, what would be the moment, if I could relive it for you now, that you'd choose? The great moment of your life?
ANKA: Wow, that is so, so tough. You know, I'd have to go back to the beginnings and the first time that I went on Ed Sullivan, a show that I watched when my link to life was a radio. And it was just emerging, television. And there I was on Ed Sullivan singing that song "Diana". And then later, I got Dick Clark with his number one hit. And that was trauma for me, because they taught me something called lip syncing. And what it is, as you know -- they do it a lot today unfortunately -- you need to stand there and follow a record which is really setting forth --
MORGAN: Which is not easy to do, actually.
ANKA: I'm in the middle of this song. I'm elated, and I'm with Dick Clark and kids are screaming. I'm carrying on, "oh my darling, oh my lover, tell that there is no. I love you with all of my heart."
Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. The damn record got stuck and I'm on national television. I said, I'm quitting. I'm going home.
MORGAN: Well, thank God you didn't quit. If you had quit, we never would have had "My Way," never had any of this stuff in the book. It's a terrific book. It's called "My Way," Paul Anka. And there's a great album here, "Paul Anka Duets."
ANKA: This was fun.
MORGAN: It was, yes.
ANKA: I have people on there I really admire, from Michael Buble, Gloria Estefan, Dolly Parton. But the real magic for me in there was singing with Michael Jackson and Frank Sinatra. Because of the technology, I was allowed to do that. And it was as if they were standing in the room with you.
MORGAN: That's amazing. It's a fantastic album. It's been a real pleasure. I could have talked to you for hours.
ANKA: Whenever you want.
MORGAN: Great to see you. I'll see you in Beverly Hills. We'll finish the conversation.
ANKA: My check, without the kids.
MORGAN: Damn right it's your check. I'll even sing you "My Way."
ANKA: Oh, I don't know we want to go that far.
MORGAN: We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Every night, chef Bruno Cerato serves free meals to 300 motel kids in Anaheim, California. It's work that he was honored for in 2011 as a top-ten CNN hero.
BRUNO CERATO, CNN HERO: That was the most amazing moment in my life. After the CNN show, lots of people call me, what can we do for you?
COOPER: But it was Bruno who wanted to do more to help families living in area motels.
CERATO: When I send the kids back to the hotel, I always feel sad at that moment. Because I know where they go back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You guys can all share those markers. Sit right here and color. COOPER: It's a hard life to escape. Just ask the Gutierrez (ph) family who lived in their hotel with their five children for more than a year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then the rest of them sleep sardine style on this bed.
He got laid off. I started working just a month ago. It's really hard for us to save up to get into an actual home.
CERATO: I came up with a savior. I said, well, let's pay the first and last month.
MORGAN: By providing rent and a deposit, Bruno now helps families leave the motel life behind for good. Working with a local non-profit, 29 families have now gotten a fresh start in a home of their own.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids just ran around, explored, found their rooms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is yours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is mine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CERATO: My heart is really full of joy.
We're putting back people to their own home.
COOPER: Bruno hopes to move 70 more families by the end of the year. A CNN hero with a new recipe for helping others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)