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Secretary of State John Kerry Visits China; Gabby Giffords and Mark Kelly Interviewed about Gun Legislation; Jodi Arias Trial Continues; Two Lawyers Write about Celebrity Trials; Veteran of World War II Provides Care Packages to U.S. Soldiers

Aired April 13, 2013 - 14:00   ET


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I am Fredricka Whitfield. Here are the top stories we're following in the CNN Newsroom.

With North Korea showing no signs of backing down, U.S. Secretary of State Kerry pays a visit to the North's big ally, China. What the U.S. is saying after that key meeting.

A plane trying to land in Bali misses the runway and ends up in the ocean. But this isn't a story about tragedy. It is about survival. Everyone on the plane made it out alive.

Margaret Thatcher's daughter says it will be a difficult and tearful week. Preparations are under way for the "Iron Lady's" funeral Wednesday. Critics have called to people to celebrate her death.

U.S. secretary of state John Kerry is in China today and wants leaders to pressure North Korea to tone down threats against the U.S. and South Korea. Kerry met with China's president and foreign minister a day after meeting with South Korean leaders. Elise Labott is in Washington. Elise what was John Kerry's the tone coming out of the meetings?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: His tone was very positive, Fred, came out did a press conference with the foreign minister and said U.S. and China have unprecedented cooperation on North Korea. Let's take a listen to what he said shortly after the meeting with the foreign minister.


JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We both joined in stating the United States and China remain fully committed to the September 2005 joint statement of the six party talks and to its core goal. And that core goal is the verifiable denuclearization of the Korean peninsula in a peaceful manner.


LABOTT: Now, Fred, John Kerry sounds like he heard what he wanted to hear. The question is, is China going to do what the U.S. asks which is crack down on North Korea, really get tough and stop the illicit flow of weapons and money it is helping fuel the nuclear program and get North Korea to back down from all of these threats and get back to the table? In the past China said all the right things, hasn't really acted. So maybe this time will be different.

WHITFIELD: Elise what does the White House saying about any possible ballistic missile tests from North Korea?

LABOTT: Well, you saw in the last couple of days there was a report from the Defense Intelligence Agency saying maybe North Korea had a nuclear weapon that could possibly reach the United States, but not so sure about the reliability. The White House, the director of national intelligence, John Kerry, all pouring a little bit of water on that report, saying they do not believe that North Korea has a ballistic missile that could be mated with a nuclear warhead that could be fired towards the United States.

However, they are making a lot of progress in all areas of the nuclear program, so that's why everyone is saying it is prudent to take all the defensive measures that the U.S. has but not so far along as people are suggesting and certainly not as far along as the North Koreans are saying their program is.

WHITFIELD: Elise Labott, thanks so much.

For the first time in four years someone other than the president or the vice president gave the Saturday White House address. This morning it was the mom of a child shot and killed at Sandy Hook elementary school. Francine Wheeler urged the Senate to pass a gun control bill.


FRANCINE WHEELER, PARENT OF SANDY HOOK VICTIM: David and I have two sons. Our older son, Nate, soon to be ten years old is a fourth grader at sandy hook elementary school. Our younger son ben, age six, was murdered in his first grade classroom on December 14th, exactly four months ago this weekend. For him and all of the others taken from us so violently, and too soon, we have to convince the Senate to come together and pass common sense gun responsibility reforms that will make our communities safer and prevent more tragedies like the one we never thought would happen to us.


WHITFIELD: The Wheelers and other families from Newtown, Connecticut, have been in Washington pushing Congress to pass tougher gun laws.

Sensitivity about the Newtown massacre is what prompted a U.S. senator to protest a NASCAR race sponsored by the NRA. The NRA 500 race kicks off tonight at the Texas motor speedway. This week Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy asked FOX sports not to broadcast the race calling it inappropriate in light of Newtown. But the race will be broadcast on FOX.

Tiger Woods is going for his fifth green jacket at the Masters right now. He just teed off with a two stroke penalty against him. Rachel Nichols joins us from Augusta. Rachel, tell us more about the penalty and why Tiger Woods says he is not going to dispute is, he accepts it?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is definitely going to make his weekend a lot tougher. Here is what happened. He hit the ball into the water on hole 15 yesterday. We have all done it on golf courses and like all of us on courses across the country he took a drop. The rule says he has to do it as closely as possible to the spot he hit his initial shot. Well, he did that except it may have been a little further than it needed to be.

Rules officials started reviewing this while Tiger was still on the course yesterday. They deemed that where he dropped the ball was appropriate, so they let him sign his score card. However, later Tiger gave an interview where he said that he dropped the ball, you know, about two yards from where the initial shot was. Well, that's too far, so they went back, looked at the tape yet again and talked to Tiger this morning and watched the tape with him and decided he should have the two stroke penalty.

They did stop short of saying he should be disqualified because they said they made the same initial error in looking at it the first time so they shouldn't penalize him for reaching the same conclusion that they did.

All of that being said, that means Tiger has a much tougher chase. He is five shots behind the leader. That is a lot tough to her make up over the weekend than three shots he thought he was when he walked off the course yesterday.

WHITFIELD: Rachel, it seems in large part the crowd there is really cheering for him, really hoping for this kind of comeback story, particularly this comeback right there at Augusta.

NICHOLS: Yes. It is interesting. The opinion here is very divided on Tiger today. There is a large number of people think this is unfair, he was just playing golf and took the drop two or three feet back from where the initial shot was, wasn't trying to take an advantage by going forward. Then again, you have a large number of people disputing that saying he should have been disqualified or disqualified himself, three times Masters champion Nick Faldo went on TV and said he should have disqualified himself even if the tournament didn't. It is creating a lot of chatter and good for golf

WHITFIELD: Rachel Nichols, thanks so much for the update from Augusta.

Gabby Giffords survived being shot in the head but she still has a deep appreciation for guns.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aiming for my pot. Whoa.


WHITFIELD: We'll take to you target practice as the former congresswoman cheers on her husband. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK KELLY, WIFE OF GABRIELLE GIFFORDS: This is the same kind of gun Gabby was shot with, a glock, a .9 millimeter glock.



WHITFIELD: As we cover the ongoing battle over new gun regulations, a powerful and influential voice is rising above all the noise. We're talking about former congresswoman Gabby Giffords and her husband former astronaut Mark Kelly. They're not just watching from the sidelines. They are in the fight pushing for expanded background checks. The battle is of course deeply personal for them. More than two years after Giffords was shot in the head by a gunman, she is still on a journey of recovery.

CNN's Dana Bash spent two days with Giffords at her home in Arizona, and here is part one of her exclusive interview.


DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gabby Giffords will never not same after being shot through the head, yet one thing hasn't changed, ironically, her appreciation for guns. In fact, target practice is still a form of entertainment at her mother's house, deep in the Arizona desert.

Watch this. He is aiming for my pot. Whoa.

Husband Mark Kelly using planting pots and water bottles as targets while Giffords watches from the patio with her mother cheering him on.


BASH: Excellent. Excellent.

And Kelly isn't shooting with just any kind of gun.

KELLY: This is the same kind of gun Gabby was shot with, a glock, a .9 millimeter glock, but in that case it had a magazine that held 33 rounds. This, when it is full, holds 17. Shot 33 rounds. Every round hit somebody, we think.

BASH: How long have you had this gun?

KELLY: I gave this to Gabby as a gift.

BASH: When?

KELLY: A number of years ago. She is a gun owner. She is from the west.

BASH: Still, we asked the question a lot of incredulous people seeing this scene would ask. Really? This guy still has gets his kicks or recreation for him is shooting a gun after his wife was shot through the head?

KELLY: Gabby used to like shooting a gun, too, occasionally.


KELLY: Not all the time, and Gabby owns the same type of gun she was shot with. She didn't want to get rid of it. Now there is a round in the chamber.

BASH: To be sure, this is meant to serve a very political purpose, to show Giffords and Kelly are legitimate gun owners and credible messengers for their new cause, tightening gun restrictions. In fact, Kelly also showed us a gun he recently bought and videotaped for the sole purpose of demonstrating how easy it is to get a background check and why he and Giffords want them expanded to private sales like at gun shows.

KELLY: When we timed it, it took 5 minutes and 36 seconds, not a lot of time. You can do the same thing at the gun show where people are currently not subject to a background check in most states.

BASH: Giffords and Kelly formed their organization, Americans for Responsible Solutions, in January, the second anniversary of the tragic shooting that left Giffords partially paralyzed and robbed the once articulate politician of her gift of speech.

GIFFORDS: Optimistic.

KELLY: You're optimistic.

GIFFORDS: Optimistic.

KELLY: I am, too especially when we're talking about universal background checks.

BASH: The Sandy Hook shooting spurred them to take a stand.

GIFFORDS: Sandy Brook.

KELLY: Sandy Hook.

BASH: Brain damage from Giffords own gunshot wound make it is difficult for her to find words, even Sandy Hook.

GIFFORDS: Sandy Brook.

KELLY: Sandy Hook.

GIFFORDS: Sandy Brook.

KELLY: Sandy Hook. Sandy Hook elementary. It is something we just can't -- 20, 20 first graders.


KELLY: In their classroom. GIFFORDS: It is awful.

BASH: The couple originally called for a ban on assault weapons and limits to high capacity magazines. Giffords made a dramatic plea to senators.

GIFFORDS: Be bold. Be courageous. Americans are counting on you.

BASH: But they now admit there are limits on what is politically realistic.

If you were to name the number one thing that Congress could do to prevent the kind of violence that you were the victim of, what would it be?

GIFFORDS: Background checks.

KELLY: Yes, certainly. Without a doubt.

BASH: Giffords has learned to navigate an iPad for e-mail with her left hand because her right hand is paralyzed. Most of her communicating with former colleagues pressing them for new gun laws goes through Kelly mostly on the phone, although she doesn't have to say much to make her point, especially in person.

KELLY: When Gabby sits in their office and tells them how important universal background check bill is, they hear that. She is a former colleague. She was doing her job like they do every single day, when she was nearly killed.

BASH: When Giffords was in Congress, she represented this red Arizona district on the Mexican border filled with voters who expected her to defend their gun rights. She pushed to overturn a gun ban in the District of Columbia and voted to allow guns in national parks. A conservative Democrat herself, she knows firsthand how politically hard it is for former colleagues to support gun restrictions.

KELLY: It is tough. It can be a tough issue. That's because of the influence.


KELLY: Of the NRA, you know, and the gun lobby.

BASH: What do you think about the nr a's argument that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun?

GIFFORDS: It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

BASH: Realistically had she not been shot with the pro-gun congresswoman have been open to voting for stricter gun laws?

Candidly, would you have said yes?

GIFFORDS: Yes, yes.

KELLY: I think it depends on who those measures were.


KELLY: Gabby was middle of the road.

GIFFORDS: Middle of the road, straight in the middle.

BASH: There is no question the gun culture is deeply engrained in Giffords. It has to be to still expose herself to guns, even after her near fatal shooting.

What's it like to sit and hear the gunshot go off? Does it startle you?


KELLY: I think it is because Gabby doesn't remember the gunshot going off the day she was injured. Right, you don't remember that?


BASH: If you could, would you shoot a gun today?


KELLY: We have talked about it. Gabby has actually held it, hasn't shot one since she has been injured. A few days ago she was trying to aim with it with her left hand.

BASH: Is it your hope to be able to shoot a gun again.

GIFFORDS: I don't know.

BASH: Not a big priority in your life right now?

GIFFORDS: Not really.

KELLY: Not at the top of the list.

BASH: Still, what's so devastatingly altered her life now infuses her life with purpose.

I have seen it written there is irony that you are such a good spokesperson for new laws to curb gun violence because you can't speak very well.

KELLY: I guess that's kind of maybe bad irony. I don't know. It is something that --


KELLY: It stinks. It stinks.


WHITFIELD: Coming up, we'll hear more from Gabby Giffords as she talks candidly about her health and future. That and much more after the break.


WHITFIELD: It has been more than two years since former congresswoman Gabby Giffords was shot and critically injured by a gunman in Tucson, Zrizona. Since then she has come a long way in her recovery, but in a CNN exclusive Giffords told our Dana Bash she's had to face new tough realities.


BASH: What is most shocking about Gabby Giffords now is how much she looks like her old self. Her golden locks are back, the sparkle in her eyes, her broad smile, the Gabby Giffords we knew whether she was shot. Gone is the short hair and thin frame we saw at the beginning of her recovery. But she knows she will never not same.

In your recovery process do you want to find and discover the old Gabby Giffords or do you want to sort of rediscover another new Gabby Giffords?

GIFFORDS: Stronger, stronger, better, tougher, stronger, better, tougher.

BASH: Being with Giffords, it is immediately clear she understands virtually everything going on around her. She follows conversations, reacts, offers unsolicited ideas. But it is still a huge struggle to turn her ideas and thoughts into words, like when trying to explain how she spends her days.

GIFFORDS: Occupational therapy, yogurt.

KELLY: Yoga.

GIFFORDS: Yoga. Yoga.

BASH: The right-handed Giffords still has no use of her right hand. That arm is paralyzed. So is her right leg. She wears a brace and literally drag it is with her good left leg to walk. She also doesn't see very well.

How is your vision?

GIFFORDS: Not really --

BASH: Not great?

GIFFORDS: Not great at all.

KELLY: So Gabby's blind to the right side, right, in both eyes.

GIFFORDS: Both eyes.

KELLY: So she has no peripheral vision to the right at all. She is looking at you, she can't see anything to the right.

BASH: Over there.

But you can easily see how she and her husband keep up her spirits, humor.

KELLY: Which is good if I want to sneak up on her.

BASH: You wouldn't do that, would you?

KELLY: All the time. I will come from that direction. You wouldn't want to come from this direction.

BASH: For Giffords and Kelly, a retired astronaut and space shuttle commander, this is the new normal.

KELLY: It is different in good ways, too, a lot of good ways.

BASH: Like living and working together now.

GIFFORDS: I am just looking forward to making a change this fall.

BASH: Before she was shot, they had a commuter marriage. She jetted between her congressional district in Tucson, Arizona, and work in Washington, D.C. He lived in Houston, Texas, where he worked at the space center. This is the first home they bought and live in together. Another plus, before Giffords was shot, she had a rocky relationship with Kelly's two teenaged daughters from a previous marriage.

But sort of tense relationship that you had with your daughters, that's changed.

GIFFORDS: Yes, changed.

BASH: So that's a positive?

GIFFORDS: Yes, yes.

BASH: That came out of this tragedy.

GIFFORDS: A lot better.

KELLY: A lot better. They have also grown up a little bit, too, and as a family we have evolved because of certainly because of what happened, so it brought us all closer together.

BASH: Giffords now fully understands that six people died and 13 were injured because of did he ranged young man, Jared loughner set out to assassinate her. She brought him up unsolicited.

GIFFORDS: Loughner.

BASH: Kelly spoke at his sentencing as Giffords sat stoically staring Loughner down.

To sit in the courtroom and look at the man that shot you through the head, what was that like? GIFFORDS: Beady eyes.

KELLY: Well, yes, he had some interesting expressions on his face.


KELLY: And she did not look away when she stared him --

GIFFORDS: Beady eyes.

BASH: Did he look back at you?

GIFFORDS: Yes, yes, yes.

BASH: Did you get a sense that there was any kind of remorse, any kind of understanding of what he put you through and what he did to the six people who didn't survive?

GIFFORDS: So sad. Mentally ill.

BASH: Newly released court documents reveal that Loughner's parents knew something was wrong, that he heard voices and exhibited other alarming behavior, and they did not get him help.

I am curious, have you ever heard from his parents?



BASH: Would you want to?

GIFFORDS: Not really.

KELLY: As a parent, you certainly on one level you can empathize with somebody that went through that where their kid just does a horrific thing. At the same time, you know, there were indications of his mental illness. The school knew about it. His parents knew about it. And he didn't have -- didn't seem to have a lot of options for good treatment.

BASH: Giffords suffered another tragedy a few months ago. Her father Spencer, with whom she had a special bond, died suddenly. He taught her a lot about humor, strength, and responsibility, handing her the keys to his tire business when she was just 26 years old.

BASH: You know it would make a difference.


BASH: Giffords grit and determination also comes from her mother Gloria, a force of nature, an artist whose home is in the middle of the desert miles from civilization. You have to go off road to get there. So many desert rocks that on the way home Kelly got a flat tire.

KELLY: Should lower the tire.

BASH: We took this cell phone video of Giffords, daughter of a tire salesman and expert tire changer in her own right, out in the dark helping.

GIFFORDS: I am concerned about the mountain lion.

BASH: Her bond with her mother is tighter than ever. Gloria Giffords sat by her daughter's hospital bed for countless hours and plays a central role in Giffords' recovery. And there may be a sliver of hope for Giffords, now age 42, to have a child of her own. When she was shot, she was trying to get pregnant with fertility treatment.

BASH: You were in the middle of IVF, hoping to have a baby.


BASH: Obviously the challenges are quite different now.


BASH: They still have two frozen embryos and given Giffords injuries, they likely would have to use a surrogate.

GIFFORDS: I don't know.

KELLY: You know, we talk about it. We talk about it. We haven't made a decision.

BASH: Sure, Giffords has her moments of frustration and anger, but that does not define her.

Not resentful?


BASH: How is that possible?

GIFFORDS: Move ahead, move ahead. Happy.

BASH: You are happy? Where does it come from? How do you keep this kind of optimism given what you have been through and what you're still going through?

GIFFORDS: I want to make the world a better place. I want to make the world a better place.


WHITFIELD: And Giffords is due to be back in the U.S. capitol building on Tuesday to honor one of her aides who was killed in that shooting. And she is also expected to urge senators to support new gun control legislation. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: Secretary of state John Kerry says the U.S. and China are committed to the peaceful denuclearization of North Korea. He was in China meeting with the country's president. Kerry also says the U.S. and China will work together to tone down threats from North Korea.

The White House is pushing ahead with its fight for tighter gun control today. The mother of a six-year-old boy killed in the Newtown massacre delivered the presidential weekly address. Francine Wheeler made a tearful plea to the Senate to pass gun control legislation. This was the first time in more than four years that someone other than the president or vice president has given the address.

And it looks like a little bit like the "miracle on the Hudson." Remember that? A plane, in this case trying to land in Bali missing the runway and landing right in the ocean. Everyone on board survived and only one person so far was reported injured.

A new online ad from K-Mart is going viral, and it is tongue in cheek humor has the internet buzzing. In an effort to promote its free shipping service for the online customers the retailer is using good old-fashioned potty humor.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can ship your pants right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hear that? I can ship my pants for free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa, I just may ship my pants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Billy, you can ship your pants, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't wait to ship my pants, dad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just ship my nighty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just shipped my bed.


WHITFIELD: Oh, my. The ad has already received more than 2 million hits. So what do you think? Is K-Mart's word play funny or do you think it goes a little too far? You can tweet me your thoughts on twitter.

A familiar face is coming to CNN. Anthony Bourdain travels the world exploring different cultures and the food that they eat. Tomorrow night his new show "Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown," makes its debut. The first stop, Myanmar.


ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CHEF: Just two years ago speaking to a western journalist would have put you into prison for an indeterminate amount of time. I was stunned by how open people were and how eager they were to talk to the camera and how frank they were with us and how freely they spoke, that's something very unusual in a situation where freedom of speech if such a recent thing.


WHITFIELD: CNN brings you the world as they travel to Myanmar, Columbia, Libya, Peru and more. "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" starts tomorrow night at 9:00 eastern time.

Their clients list, it is kind of like a who's who of celebrity defendants among them Michael Jackson and Chris Brown. Ahead, two of the country's best known defense attorneys weighing in on the Jodi Arias trial and other cases making headlines right now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustainability is basically using resources but not compromising for future generations. We as a human race have not been very sustainable.

Hello, everyone. I am the owner and founder of Rancho Margo.

A living university in so many ways. Basically we produce our own food. We make our own furniture. We produce our own energy, electricity, and cooking gas. We compost waste and heat water with it. At the same time we produce a luxury environment for people to come and enjoy themselves, and it is all within an environment that you just say, wow, I can't believe I am not doing any damage. I can't believe I am actually doing some good.



WHITFIELD: In the Jodi Arias trial this week the jury offered heard a lot of testimony from a defense witness claiming Arias had been a victim of domestic abuse. But there are indications the jury may not be buying that story. Here is Ted Rowlands.


TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, outside of Jodi Arias, Alice La Violet, the domestic violence expert, spent more time on the stand than anyone else in this case. A lot of that time was battling with Juan Martinez, the prosecutor. But she had to take very tough question from the jury.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will continue to ask the jurors questions.

ROWLANDS: Many of the questions for defense expert Alice La Violet showed that some jurors don't seem to believe her testimony, that Jodi Arias was a victim of domestic abuse.

JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, MARICOPA COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: We have a gunshot to the head, a four-inch deep slit throat and close to 30 stab wounds delivered by Jodi to Travis. Is not the perpetrator of the greatest domestic violence Jodi? ROWLANDS: Jurors had more than 150 questions for La Violet, who spent 11 days on the witness stand. Many of those days were spent sparring with prosecutor Juan Martinez.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Isn't that an indication of stocking behavior?

ROWLANDS: Jodi Arias had to sit and watch as Martinez used la violet, her expert witness, to argue his case, including that Jodi Arias was stalking her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, before killing him in 2008 and at one point Martinez was able to get la violet to admit that Alexander was afraid of Arias.

MARTINEZ: Isn't it true that Mr. Alexander was extremely afraid of the defendant, Jodi Arias, based on her stalking behavior?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was afraid of her, yes.

MARTINEZ: Because of her stalking behavior, correct?


ROWLANDS: Jodi Arias is charged with premeditated murder which carries a possible death sentence for shooting Alexander in the head and stabbing him almost 30 times. Arias claims she killed Alexander in self-defense.


Next week we expect the prosecution to put on a relatively short rebuttal case and then after closing arguments it will be time for this jury to begin deciding the fate of Jodi Arias. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much, Ted.

I want to bring in two of the best known defense attorneys in the country. Between them they have worked with Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Chris Brown, and many others. Mark Geragos and Pat Harris have collaborated on a new book called "Mistrial." In it they promise to reveal the good, the bad and the ugly in the judicial system. They join me now from New York. Mark and Pat, good to see you.

MARK GERAGOS, AUTHOR, "MISTRIAL": Hi, Fredricka how are you?

WHITFIELD: Doing great. So before we talk about your book at length and how it came to be, let's talk about this Jodi Arias trial. Mark, do you see any real kind of intrigue similarities between this case and some of the high profile criminal cases from O.J. Simpson to Michael Jackson trials that you talk about in your book?

GERAGOS: I think there are a lot of similarities starting with the removing of jurors. That's something we have seen in a lot of these cases for somebody that supposedly did something is or didn't do something correctly, and that's a similarity. I also see this gaining of traction in the media and the almost obsession with it people on the case. It reminds me quite a bit of Peterson's case in a lot of ways.

WHITFIELD: What is with the obsession? What are the common denominators in case that is seem to engage viewers and on lookers and people who just become so enraptured by watching every move in a trial like this?

GERAGOS: A lot of it has to do with obviously if there are cameras in the courtroom, that obviously helps it gain traction. I think for people who have become involved in it. I think when you have somebody who is good looking or photogenic if you will, that helps as well. You take a look at Casey Anthony, O.J., Peterson, who by all accounts was a very good looking young man, and in this case you have somebody, in Jodi Arias' case where she has some of those fem fatal pictures of her before even though she looks more frumpy.

WHITFIELD: A transformation. Pat, so the jury, does seem to be a bit skeptical of Arias' abuse claims listening to the questions they asked by way of the judge. How do you size up her defense right now?

PAT HARRIS, AUTHOR, "MISTRIAL": Well, I think the defense is obviously -- they're just looking for one juror. They recognize that they're not going to get 12 jurors to come in and find her not guilty. This entire concept that somehow the defense is trashing the boyfriend and how horrible it is to the public, they're not playing, the defense is not playing to the public. They're playing to one juror, trying to find one person on that jury who is willing to sit there and say, well, I kind of buy that. I think that's a possibility.

If they hang the jury, then the prosecution likely isn't going to retry the case. They would probably offer her just life in prison with no death penalty, which is what they want in the first place.

WHITFIELD: So I wonder, to both of you, if there were the situation in any number of cases that you all were working on Winona Ryder, Michael Jackson, and any of those cases at all, if the jurors were allowed to ask questions, do you think the outcome would have been far different? Mark, you first.

GERAGOS: I was going to say in California we have that option. Most judges don't use it. I always am against it. I think it is an interesting insight into the jury at the time if you're the lawyer and at the same time I think it takes the juror out of the position of being an impartial arbiter and almost a deputy prosecutor if you will or advocate. So that's why I am against it.

I don't think it would have necessarily changed any verdicts one way or another in any of the high profile cases that we have seen over the years or that I have handled. I just think it has a tendency to let the jurors be a little too much interactive in advocacy, and that's not what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to be impartial judges of the facts.

WHITFIELD: OK. And you know, Pat, as we look at this Michael Jackson wrongful death civil case right now, does it seem to have the same kind of allure that maybe the molestation case has had, anything that involved Michael Jackson in the past? HARRIS: Anything that involves Michael Jackson has allure. It is phenomenal. When we took the case when we first got on the Michael Jackson case and it was announced we were his lawyers, within about an hour our entire computer system shut down in our office from the e- mails and from all of the different communications, mostly, quite frankly from overseas. There is a huge fascination with Michael Jackson overseas and especially in the Asian countries. And anything you mentioned Michael Jackson, any time there is anything we even write about or blog about or having in our Web site, it is overwhelming, the reaction. As long as p he the name is out there Michael Jackson will always be a huge attraction.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Pat Harris and Mark Geragos, want to you stick around because we're going to be talking about jurors with agendas, other behind the scene things that happened that you write about in your book mistrial, all involving some of those most highly publicized cases.


WHITFIELD: We're back with Mark Geragos and Pat Harris, two of the best known attorneys in the country. And now they have collaborated on a new book called mistrial. First off, gentlemen, you say this book came about because you were both getting a lot of criticism from fellow terns and you felt like it was time to set the record straight.

GERAGOS: Actually, people have been asking us to write a book for many years. And one night we were here in New York and some guy came up and was obviously somewhat under the influence and started giving us a very hard time about some of the clients we have represented. And then at the end of the conversation I asked, what do you do? And he says I am a civil litigator and I thought to myself and turned to pat, if even the civil lawyers have a tough time understanding what it is you're supposed to do as a lawyer, maybe we should write a book.

WHITFIELD: And then here we are.

So, Pat, you know, you write that politics has shifted the balance of the judicial system in favor of the prosecution, your words were the pendulum was beginning to swing heavily in favor of the prosecution, the balance being up ended. At what point did you come to that conclusion and decide that there is a real influence by politics?

HARRIS: I think what you started seeing was all the politicians using the phrase "soft on crime," that in society, liberal judges, defense attorneys turned the country soft on crime. We got what we began to see was actually in the courtroom when it got scary because you would have jurors come in and we would go through investigator dire and question them and you would hear them use phrases, "this country has gone soft and crime and I can't serve on a jury because I think liberal judges are just trying to get people off." And I think that's when we began to see that the politics had seeped over into the courtroom.

WHITFIELD: And as it pertains to politics, that Susan MacDougal case comes to mind, the Whitewater defendant who wouldn't answer grand jury questions, but before that trial were to take place, Pat, she was your fiance, and it was Mark who she hired and you weren't so sure about that at first.

GERAGOS: Well, have Pat tell you.

HARRIS: First time I walked in I actually -- Susan called me the night before and said she hired a lawyer and was in jail at the same time and Mark, and I said I have no idea who that is and I will have to go in tomorrow and fire him. I went in the next day to his office to fire him and an hour later I ended up working with Mark. And then Susan and I broke up and Mark got custody of me during the breakup.

WHITFIELD: So what clicked with you guys? How did you see that you were either yin-and-yang or you were both on the same plane or what happened with that relationship?

GERAGOS: I will tell you the greatest thing about pat, I mean, he has a lot of wonderful qualities, but he is kind of my muse when it comes to selecting jurors. He has a sixth sense, I don't want to call him an idiot savant, but a savant when it comes to selecting jurors. And that's something we bonded over. When you go through as many trials together as we have, we tried quite a few cases, and it is like going to war. And if you're in a foxhole, he is the guy I want next to me.

HARRIS: It is interesting, too. I think that Mark is somebody who has taught me a lot about no fear in having no fear and being willing to go out in the courtroom and do whatever it takes, and I really learned a lot from him, and that's what I appreciate.

WHITFIELD: I think most would agree the two of you are fearless. Mark, Pat, thanks so much. The book is mistrial. It really is a fascinating need.

HARRIS: Thanks for having us.

WHITFIELD: Former Congressman Anthony Weiner is one of the men in the spotlight asking for a second chance after a public fall from grace. So why do some get a second chance while others don't? Answers are straight ahead.



DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lester Tenney, along with his wife, are packing boxes to ship overseas. They're the founders of Care Packages from Home, a volunteer organization that sends goodies to servicemen and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. Since it began five and a half years ago, they have sent items to 150,000 troops. Although it is a labor of love, a more personal reason drives Tenney. Back in 1940 he enlisted in the National Guard and was then transferred to the army division and ended up in the Philippines. Then Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. One day later, Japan invaded the Philippines. The fighting became so one sided that the U.S. had to surrender, and on April 9, 1942, American soldiers were brutally forced to march to a POW camp 80 plus miles away in 100 degree heat with no food or water.

LESTER TENNEY, CARE PACKAGES FROM HOME: It was called the Bataan death march not just because of how many died but because of the way they died.

GUPTA: Tenney says there are no words to describe what happened.

TENNEY: If you couldn't take another step you were killed. They just killed you for no reason except for the fact you did not move.

GUPTA: Tenney made it to the POW camp and was eventually shipped to Japanese coal mines and survived until the end of world war II.

TENNEY: It was freedom that you can't over describe.

GUPTA: Now a retired professor of economics, Tenney and his wife live in California. Tenney had never stopped thinking about his days as a prisoner of war, the loneliness, the fear. And that's the reason he started sending packages to the troops.

TENNEY: They know where I have been, maybe they do, maybe they don't, but the one thing they do know, they do know that we care.

GUPTA: At 92 Lester Tenney is one of the few remaining survivors of the Bataan death march. How did he survive?

TENNEY: I think my first thought after that is I can't die because the Japanese want to kill me and they're working hard to do it. And if I die, then they win. I just making sure they did not win.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.


WHITFIELD: We have a packed afternoon straight ahead, including a look at the man behind the number 42, Jackie Robinson. We'll talk to a fellow legend that knew Jackie Robinson as well.