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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Terror at Boston Marathon
Aired April 15, 2013 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. It's 10:00 here in Boston, just a few blocks from the Boston Marathon finish line, where two small bombs caused such terrible, terrible carnage today, just hours into a massive terror investigation, just moments we believe from a news conference at Massachusetts General Hospital, where so many of the wounded were taken.
We will bring that news conference live. Three people now confirmed dead, including an 8-year-old boy, at least another 141 people wounded, many of them gravely wounded, their bodies torn apart by ball bearings or something similar packed into those explosive devices.
There are a lot of late developments to tell you about over the course of this hour. We have got a team of correspondents and experts covering this.
I want to begin, though, let's begin by showing you just as it happened what words simply cannot fully describe. It is difficult to watch. It is very raw, and perhaps you have seen it already and may want to turn away and I would understand if you would. But raw is exactly what this story is right now. Take a look.
A press conference is now just starting at Massachusetts General. Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
DR. PETER FAGENHOLZ, MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL: ... very seriously ill.
QUESTION: What kind of injuries?
FAGENHOLZ: There's a variety of injuries.
Probably, the most common serious injuries are combined lower extremity injuries, combined meaning bone injuries, soft tissue and vascular issues to the lower extremities.
QUESTION: Are you seeing some fractional type injuries?
QUESTION: Can you describe what...
FAGENHOLZ: We're seeing a lot of shrapnel type -- a lot of shrapnel injuries. Many of those involve again predominantly the lower extremities. But shrapnel injuries can affect the entire body.
QUESTION: Doctor, please describe the scene when people were coming in? Can you describe that?
FAGENHOLZ: Well, the first patient that came in was probably the most severe.
We had three of the most critically ill patients come in, in about the first 15 minutes. At that point, we didn't know if that was -- that did turn out to be the tip of the iceberg -- if that was going to be the tip of a huge iceberg or not. And so I think actually everybody -- we're prepared for that type of situation. So the hospital activated its incident command system. And within about five to 10 minutes, we had everything pretty much up and running.
QUESTION: What are the ages of the victims?
FAGENHOLZ: I don't have that information precisely.
QUESTION: Did you perform any amputations?
FAGENHOLZ: Yes, we have performed several amputations.
QUESTION: How many?
FAGENHOLZ: I can't tell you the total.
QUESTION: Doctor, could you tell us how many patients you personally have treated? I think we're all interested to hear have any of them been able to communicate with you what they saw, what they witnessed, what they went through?
FAGENHOLZ: So, a number of patients have been able to talk. Most of them, we have kept it business only, to be honest, so in terms of just what affects their clinical condition precisely.
So, you probably know more than I do about what happened at the scene at this point. You had another question.
QUESTION: ... how many you been able to treat?
FAGENHOLZ: Well, the hospital has treated 29. I have operated on six so far today.
QUESTION: Five patients were unidentified earlier. Have you identified all of the patients? FAGENHOLZ: I don't know if we have identified. I know that some of them who came in have now been identified.
QUESTION: How many remain in the hospital?
FAGENHOLZ: I don't know.
QUESTION: There have been a lot of questions, Doctor, about family members trying to reach their loved ones, any difficulty they may be having. Have you had any indication from the patients that you have seen have they have been able to reach their loved ones, their family members Have they been able to find them at Mass General at least?
FAGENHOLZ: Some of them we have, some of them we haven't. Some who initially were unidentified, it took a couple of hours.
I know for some of the patients I personally treated it took a couple of hours to find family. I don't know of the 29 total, or the particularly 11 who were in -- I'm sorry, eight who are in critical condition, if we have been able to reach everybody.
FAGENHOLZ: Again, I'm not sure. I have not taken care of any runners. But of the 29 people, they're assuming may have been some runners.
QUESTION: Was there anything unusual or anything in particular?
FAGENHOLZ: So, no. There's a lot of small metal debris. Some people have asked already whether these were BBs or they were parts of bombs. I just don't think we're able to say whether these are small bits of metal that were place district intentionally or whether they were just part of the environment that were involved in the blast.
QUESTION: Do you think the people in critical condition at this point (OFF-MIKE)
FAGENHOLZ: Well, they're not looking OK, because that's not what critical condition means. So it's too really early to say how everybody is, is going to do.
QUESTION: How long will this process continue of the eight critical? Are we talking about hours?
FAGENHOLZ: A number of patients will require repeat operations tomorrow and serial operations over the next couple of days.
So, as I mentioned, a lot of the injuries are combined, they're combined bony and soft tissue vascular injuries. And they have to be approached oftentimes in kind of a stepwise fashion.
QUESTION: How about eardrums? Were you seeing any shattered eardrums? Were these people in very close proximity to the explosion?
FAGENHOLZ: Yes. We have seen at least one, which is not uncommon with blast injury.
One of the things on the to-do list for tonight for me and the residents is actually to go right back around. It can be hard sometimes, particularly if people are being rushed to the operating room to get a good exam, and repeat all of those exams, because that's obviously something you don't want to miss.
QUESTION: Can you give us more information on ages, hometowns?
FAGENHOLZ: No, I'm sorry. I can't, actually. I just don't have that information. The hospital may be able to give it at a later date.
QUESTION: Can you talk about the amputees? You have how many here at this hospital?
FAGENHOLZ: I can't tell you precisely right now. Several.
QUESTION: ... still at the hospital right now?
FAGENHOLZ: I don't know that.
QUESTION: Can you give us an age range?
FAGENHOLZ: There were no pediatric patients. So, here we define that as somebody under 18. That's actually all I can tell you.
The oldest patient I took care of personally is 71. I think that's the oldest patient involved.
QUESTION: What was the most horrific (OFF-MIKE) You're a surgeon, but still.
FAGENHOLZ: Yes. It's just depressing that -- you know, we take care of accidents all the time. It's just depressing that it's intentional.
QUESTION: Have you ever seen anything like this?
FAGENHOLZ: The injuries are not otherworldly. But, no, I can't say I have seen this volume of patients come this quickly with this type of injury.
(CROSSTALK) QUESTION: Can you elaborate by what you mean of not otherworldly? Some of the initial reports we have heard are that it appears that these devices may have been IED-like or crude in nature, but you say injuries not otherworldly. What do you mean? Can you explain that?
FAGENHOLZ: Any traumatic amputation, it is a gruesome injury, but it's something that we do see from time to time in the course of daily life, even outside of this type of event.
QUESTION: Is this tough on you? I know you're trained for it, but was it (OFF-MIKE) or does it kick in automatically?
FAGENHOLZ: This is just -- this is work. When this happens, we just go to work.
QUESTION: Doctor, you talked about injuries on a broad scale, but eight in critical condition, can you elaborate on their injuries?
FAGENHOLZ: I'm hesitant to give you a kind of rundown of each of the eight one by one by one.
Again, the dominant injury have been combined complex lower extremity injuries involving blood vessels, bone and soft tissue.
QUESTION: Do any of your colleagues have combat medical experience and if so have any of them made any comparisons to this?
FAGENHOLZ: One of my partners actually has been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I think has probably the most personal experience with these types of injuries.
He's been here most of the night. But I haven't talked to him directly about how does this compare to what have you seen in the field?
QUESTION: What about some of the patient's mental -- you said you were keeping it business for the most part (OFF-MIKE) said a lot, but were they -- did any of them say anything that gave you some sense of what this experience is like for them?
FAGENHOLZ: No, no.
People, they want help in this kind of situation. And my experience today is not unlike I guess other similar circumstances. People are -- they're pretty brave. It's a terrible thing, and most patients' attitude is just do what you have to do and try to make it better.
(CROSSTALK) FAGENHOLZ: Some conscious, some unconscious.
QUESTION: Can you describe, if you look over here a little bit, describe a little bit what the scene in the E.R. was when it first happened?
FAGENHOLZ: We just got a series of patients on stretchers.
Actually, none of them with -- of the first wave, even some that were very seriously injured, none of the first few had breathing tubes in, so they were able to talk, even if they were in and out a little bit. And, again, the most -- when it kicked off, the most severe injuries were really these lower extremity injuries.
And so we had, I think, three in about the first five or 10 minutes and that's when it became clear to us that it was going to be a busy day.
QUESTION: Have you ever seen anything like this before?
FAGENHOLZ: Like I said, the injuries individually are not completely outside the pale. But I have never seen this volume come this quickly.
QUESTION: There were six critical earlier. Now there are eight. What changed?
FAGENHOLZ: I'm not sure how they were classified or when.
And I think certainly there's some patients who may not have been classified critically the moment they hit the door. Their status could have been changed.
QUESTION: You were all trained by Israeli disasters' first- responders. How did that help today?
FAGENHOLZ: I was not trained by Israeli disaster first- responders.
QUESTION: Doctor, given the horror that you have seen, we also heard the governor, Deval Patrick, say that he's seen incredible signs of hope and of help across this region, and I -- we have heard reports of people saying that even runners have called the hospital and offered to donate blood as soon as they could, that that's being coordinated. Have you seen any of those bright signs in all of this horror?
FAGENHOLZ: What I can say is within the hospital certainly, everybody rose to the occasion and we have had people who were out of town who flew back in here and somehow made it back in within hours, from nursing staff to ancillary staff, to operating room staff, to specialists and really all of the different disciplines. We have had as much or more manpower or people power than we could use. I can't speak to the larger scenario, although I was asked by the hospital to mention to anyone who is willing to donate blood specifically, that it's appreciated, that right now we're OK.
If they cannot forget the sentiment over the coming days to weeks, we are going to use a lot of blood with this incident and it will need to be replenished.
FAGENHOLZ: No, to my knowledge, they have not been, and they were not quarantined in the emergency department.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) all nonelective surgeries were being put on hold? (OFF-MIKE)
FAGENHOLZ: Yes, I actually -- I can't tell you that. I would be surprised if all nonelective surgeries. I can tell you that for our general and emergency service, we did cancel our scheduled cases for tomorrow. And we're going to have to just sort them out over the next couple days.
QUESTION: Did you say that all victims have been identified?
FAGENHOLZ: No, I did not. No, I don't have that information, actually.
QUESTION: Do you know if all have reached their family members?
FAGENHOLZ: Again, I don't know.
QUESTION: Can we expect further information tonight? Will we get further updates?
FAGENHOLZ: Tomorrow. So, I'm looking at Mike from our public affairs office.
So, it looks like the next press conference will be tomorrow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have anything schedule yet. (OFF- MIKE) We will tell you know. Public affairs is on call and is available 24/7.
QUESTION: Do you know if everybody has been identified and connected with their families?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't. I don't know that info yet.
QUESTION: Doctor, how much of this is a trying night for you and your colleagues? (OFF-MIKE)
FAGENHOLZ: It's been a busy day.
QUESTION: How many hours of surgeries (OFF-MIKE)
FAGENHOLZ: Pardon me?
QUESTION: If you add it up, the hours of surgeries that -- you said you had six surgeries, right? How many hours?
FAGENHOLZ: Well, I started doing surgery at 8:00 a.m., and I pretty much stopped to come talk to you. And actually I'm going to have to go back.
QUESTION: Can you spell your last name for us?
FAGENHOLZ: Spell my name. Sorry.
COOPER: Well, that was the trauma surgeon, Peter Fagenholz, briefing reporters at Mass General, describing the horrific injuries he's seen today, especially the shrapnel wounds, eight critical patients at his hospital alone.
Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, himself a neurosurgeon, joins me now.
Sanjay, what you're hearing in terms of the types of injuries these hospitals are seeing, what stands out to you?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, everyone has been talking about these lower limb injuries.
This idea that there was a significant explosive force, but that it stayed close to the ground, I think that keeps getting proven as we hear more and more descriptions. Dr. Fagenholz, you just heard from, said he performed six operations himself.
He said there were several amputations performed at his hospital, which is tough to think about in the context of this running event. He described the injuries to the legs as being bony, but also involving a lot of the soft tissue and vascular, meaning the blood vessels also being affected.
Those are different types of injuries. The vascular injuries, the blood vessel injuries, tend to be the most critical, because someone could be losing blood, they could be losing blood flow to the limb. So those have to be addressed very quickly. I'm sure that triage is ongoing. You heard that he's going back, back inside possibly to perform more operations, Anderson.
COOPER: And, Sanjay, take a look at this video. What stands out when you see this video from a medical standpoint?
GUPTA: You know what is interesting?
When you watch that, you see the explosion certainly happen, but look at -- obviously one runner falls, who may have just stumbled, been startled by the explosion, may have had something happen to his ears, but the other runners, there's not a significant blast to them in terms of moving them across the course there. I thought if you really focus on that one thing, you can see -- get an idea of the focus and magnitude of the impact. Also, if you look at where the explosion comes from, just a few seconds or maybe 10, 15 seconds after that, you see some people running from that area.
So no doubt this has been a -- obviously a significant explosion. But there were people in the area even very close to the source of the explosion who were able to be running out. So they were actually were both cognizant and physically able to run away from that source, Anderson.
COOPER: And we're hearing at least 17 in critical condition, dozens more serious at that point.
This may be a dumb question, but what is the difference between the severity of those conditions, between critical and serious?
GUPTA: This may be a little bit of semantics, but for the most part, critical condition does refer to someone who is in the intensive care unit, likely on a breathing sign and whose vital signs, their heart rate and their blood pressure, are fluctuating to the point where they are considered unstable.
They're going up and down a lot and they need medications, possibly blood to try and maintain that. They're very worried about them. They are in many ways literally fighting for their lives.
People who are in serious condition are one step underneath that, a little bit better than critical, but they can lapse into critical condition. They're certainly in very serious -- need a lot of monitoring from the medical staff as well. So it may be a question of semantics I think at this point, Anderson.
COOPER: And when you hear about ball bearings being in these devices, obviously you get a real sense of just the horror these doctors are dealing with and for the patients.
Sanjay, I appreciate you being with us.
I want to bring in Ryan Borker, who ran in the marathon. He had finished the race before the bombings, actually saw the second explosion from his hotel room.
Ryan, thank you very much for being with us.
First of all, how are you doing?
RYAN BORKER, MARATHON RUNNER: I mean, it's hard to imagine what was out there, and basically when I came in, I was really happy that I had finished the race.
Right after that, we were hanging out and basically talking. But then I heard what sounded like a cannon like you would hear at a stadium, and I thought that might have been at that time what was signaling the end of the race. But I quickly looked out the window, saw people running and then saw the second explosion. COOPER: Your mom had actually gone to a hotel room so she could watch the finish of the race.
So, we were right across the finish line, Mandarin Oriental on the fifth floor and it was a perfect vantage point for the finish of the race, but, unfortunately, the second bombing as well.
COOPER: We're showing some of the pictures that you took. You actually witnessed the second bombing. What did you see?
BORKER: I saw people running, and then I saw a flash and smoke.
And then I turned around because once I heard the second, I knew it was a bomb and I was scared. Danielle (ph), my girlfriend, said that we should go straight into the bathroom, basically, the place that was most walled off, because if there were two, there might have been three or four. We just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible.
COOPER: How long did you stay in the bathroom for?
BORKER: Probably about five or seven minutes. It was great to hear the emergency crew right on the scene about less than a minute and you heard sirens. You wanted to be sure it was safe, because you didn't know what was happening, but by the time we got out, everyone -- there's crews all over and it was just -- it was horrible.
COOPER: Have you ever seen anything like this?
BORKER: I haven't seen anything like this at all. It was just -- the people were all over the place. You know, bodies on the ground. There were people -- you saw chest compressions and just things that you really don't want to see.
COOPER: Stay with us.
I want to also bring in Katie Fox. She's on the phone.
Katie, I understand that you actually helped carry some little kids to safety. Tell me what you saw, what you experienced.
KATIE FOX, EYEWITNESS: OK.
So we were at the forum, and we were actually working (INAUDIBLE) event, and we were in and out all day. A couple of the people we were smoked cigarettes, so we were out front a lot. And actually five minutes before the bomb went off, we discovered a back door, so we hadn't been in the front, luckily.
But we were standing around, and all of a sudden we just heard this crazy boom and the entire bar just went black and it quickly filled with smoke. And for a second, everyone was like, what was that, what was that? And then all of a sudden you just heard people screaming, get down, get down, get down, get out. So everybody rushed to the back of the restaurant where there was an alley. And at some point, there was about 100 people, more in a circle in the alley.
And two little girls, I'm not sure where they came from, but two little girls were screaming, crying, asking if it was a bad guy that did it. My sister is a mother and my friend is a schoolteacher, so their first reaction was to tell them, no, it was just fireworks. Somebody got hurt, though, so we have to leave.
And it ended up being I think a woman from out of town who had two little girls and a baby on her hip. So, like I said, my sister's a mother, so her first reaction was to pick up the little girl and just start running. So we knew somebody about six blocks away, so we just took these strangers with us and headed to our friend's house.
COOPER: How are you doing now, having witnessed something like this?
FOX: Me, personally, I'm OK. I just -- I kind of found that I had to keep it together for my sister, who actually she was running the event, and she had made tons of friends that day with strangers.
And after the bomb went off, she ran back in to grab her bag and somebody she had befriended was missing a limb. So she kind of lost it. So I have kind of had to be a rock for her all day. So I don't think it's hit me yet.
Ryan, do you feel like it's real? Often, when you see these things, it seems so surreal, that it takes a while to kind of let it sink in.
BORKER: It still hasn't sunk in for me, because I see running as a sport that is universal. And you have people from all over the country, people from other countries coming in to run the race.
And I don't understand why anyone would want to do anything like this, because it's just a world sport, it's a world spirit and then people come in and you get such a tragedy when someone does something like this. You never know whether marathons across the world are going to be safe again.
COOPER: Have you been contacted by authorities? Because obviously authorities want to talk to everybody who actually witnessed the blast.
BORKER: So, I think my mom actually told me there are FBI at the airport trying to get information on people who had seen or witnessed the blast, and maybe had information about or pictures on the explosion.
And my mom actually had some pictures on the explosion. So they talked to her. I think they're just trying to figure out who did it. It's really -- it's such a crowded area, it's hard to see.
Well, Ryan, I'm so glad you're OK and your family is OK. Thank you so much for talking to us.
BORKER: My prayers and thoughts are with everyone else.
COOPER: Yes, as are ours. I appreciate that.
Late word on the federal investigation. We have learned -- also, Katie, I want to thank you very much as well. And I wish you and your sister the best.
As I said, we have late word of the federal investigation. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the ATF, had sent all of their bomb-related personnel from the New York field division and the Boston field division to the scene. So that's just part of this massive investigation now which will be going on for many days, no doubt.
As we mentioned at the top, there's late word that police are on the lookout for someone with a possible connection to the bombing, a possible, sort of a person of interest. They're not saying it's a suspect. That news always comes with that caution.
Early leads may well be false leads. There's simply so much information authorities have to deal with right now.
But with that in mind, John King is working the investigation angle. he has been talking to his sources and he joins us now.
John, what are you hearing from your sources, both here in Boston and in Washington?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, I will circle back to that be on the lookout notice that went out in just a moment. I want to bring you the latest, though.
I just had a communication with a law enforcement source who is in Boston tonight. Here's the information. This is a direct quote: "We have a number of active leads and some good early progress in the forensics analysis." But that same source, a law enforcement source in Boston, went on to say, "but no identified suspects to my knowledge."
This source said personally knows of two explosive devices and investigations of several suspected devices, could not say if those other suspected devices were just abandoned items, they have turned out to be false alarms, if you will, but said he saw no additional reporting from law enforcement officials of any additional confirmed devices beyond the two. Promised to go back and check for me, but again got two confirmed devices.
I asked him because the FBI special agent in charge at the briefing tonight called this a criminal investigation and then went on to say -- quote -- "a potential terrorism investigation."
FBI and other federal officials in Washington had earlier labeled terrorism. So I asked this source if they were dialing back and the source said -- quote -- "There's a clear effort here to be cautious. The event speaks for itself, but we have a lot to learn still."
And as the officials noted at the end of that briefing, the next one is scheduled for the morning.
Now, Anderson, to the alert you noted, our Deb Feyerick and Elise Labott are told tonight that police put out what is called a BOLO, that's shorthand for be on the lookout notice, for a dark-skinned, possibly a black man, they said, a black male who was seen trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion.
When turned away, apparently according to this alert, this person, who they only identified as a be on the lookout for, they did not identify him as a suspect, said he had some -- sounded like a foreign accent, then looked away, put a hood on and left the scene.
So that is one alert that has gone out, a be on the lookout alert that has gone out to law enforcement officials. And you heard Commissioner Davis, the Boston police commissioner, Anderson, at that briefing tonight.
There is someone at the Brigham and Women's Hospital, a Saudi national, who is identified as a person of interest, but the Boston police commissioner pushed back aggressively, saying that person is not a suspect, just one of several people we're told who come into the hospitals are being questioned about what they know, where they were and what they know about the time of the explosions, but the police commissioner publicly pushing back very hard at some reporting, not our reporting, but some reporting that had called that person a suspect -- Anderson.
COOPER: And we're trying to be very careful and cautious in what we're reporting. We don't want to go down the road of speculation.
Brian Todd also joins me here in Boston.
It's great to see you. I know you have been working your sources. I know you just spoke to the police commissioner. What are you hearing tonight?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
To add a little bit to what John was just reporting, the police commissioner said at least two devices were involved, possibly a third. He again pushed back on the idea that this person of interest at the hospital was some kind of a suspect, told me that there are no official suspects in custody right now.
Interesting. I asked him about surveillance video of the scene. He said there was surveillance video. They're trying to compiled as much of that as possible, figure out exactly where the cameras were, but also working with the FBI to bring in as much video evidence from media outlets that were there shooting the finish line.
He said those were cameras that were there as well, working with the FBI to gather as much of that footage as possible to see what they can find out from the video there. So between surveillance and the media cameras, they're working those angles as well.
Anderson, he confirmed three fatalities. Injuries are severe. We know now from the reporting at Mass General that several amputations took place as a result of those injuries. And he is, again, pushing back on the idea that the person at the Brigham and Women's hospital is a suspect. No official suspect in custody right now.
John, even with all the video cameras that are around, and all the cell video cameras, phone cameras that people had, you're still talking of an area where there were thousands of people. So that will take time to go through.
KING: It will take a lot of time.
When this source told me the early forensics, that there was some progress, he was talking essentially about the debris collected at the crime scene. They will also use reports from the hospitals, the ball bearings and the like like that.
But you're absolutely right. Anderson, I'm quite familiar with the neighborhood. I grew up there, went to high school not far them there. And when I'm up in Boston, I go to that area all the time. You know it as a busy shopping, busy pedestrian, busy tourist, and busy business environment. So there are so many surveillance cameras, some of them there by the city, some of them there by private institutions, including the businesses.
So there will be hundreds, hundreds of angles they have to look through. Those are just the cameras that are in place. Obviously we know so many individuals have videos today carrying their phones and other personal devices. So the police have asked for all that as well.
So, the investigation will take forever. And you're right. The crowd complicates. Plus, at the sound -- what they're looking for is anyone who was in that right area and left just before the explosions, as opposed to the chaos that happens just after the explosions.
COOPER: And, John, are they saying, and Brian, maybe you heard this as well -- have they said publicly if they know exactly where the devices were, you know, in a garbage can, in a mailbox, or in any kind of -- do they know?
KING: I was told by one source earlier the suspicion, and I want to emphasize the suspicion -- this is what they will go back -- they will look through the debris. And the bomb experts can figure out if there's a mailbox that has been broken up by an explosion, if there's a garbage can, they can look for scarring, look for cordite and the like, any explosive materials inside it to see the exact point of impact.
I was told earlier they suspect a garbage pail or a mailbox, but they did not have definitive information in a conversation a bit earlier this evening.
COOPER: But what we are hearing from the nature of the injuries is they believe it was a device low to the ground, because they're seeing a lot of extremities.
TODD: Right, and not a sophisticated device.
Roes that they're pulling ball bearings out of people's legs, things like that, this was not a sophisticated device from everything that we're hearing right now. The police commissioner did say to me something kind of odd. He said we're looking at several locations, and I followed up, why several locations?
He said, well, of course the bomb scene, but he said they're getting reports of suspicious packages all over the place. They have to follow up all those leads as well. So that takes them to all sorts of locations around the city. That may not be -- a lot of those are going to be false leads. But they got to check them out.
COOPER: Yes, no doubt.
Brian, I appreciate the reporting, John King as well.
Let's dig deeper now. Joining us is former U.S. Assistant for Homeland Security, Massachusetts Homeland Security Adviser and CNN contributor Juliette Kayyem. She is going to join me here in just a moment. Also, CNN national security analyst Fran Townsend is with us, former White House homeland security adviser and member of the Homeland Security and CIA external advisory boards. Also with us, CNN contributor and former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes.
Fran, let's start with you.
I know you consider to work your sources in the federal government. There's one person that according to your reporting authorities are talking to, and again, we want to urge caution on how we approach that information. But what is the latest you're hearing?
FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Anderson, this is an individual who had a leg wound, is in the hospital, is a Saudi national.
And they were very clear to say to me this person is not under arrest, they're running investigative leads. And, quite frankly, Anderson, while we know about this one, I suspect that there are other persons of interest. So we shouldn't read too much into that. In the early goings of any investigation, you're going to find that there are plenty of people who come up on an investigator's screen. Some will shake out; that is they will be spoken to and not further followed up with. And on the other hand, some may develop into suspects.
They're looking at all the forensics. The video surveillance from the cameras. They're looking at forensics both -- you know, from the streets, from this crime scene. What can they learn about the construction of these bombs, the type of explosives used? And is there a signature? Is there DNA evidence from a potential bomber that may have been left behind? And so all those things are the kind of clues they're going to try and piece together.
COOPER: And Juliette, obviously, from a law-enforcement perspective, it's critical right now to make sure there are no other devices out there.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right. That would be primary.
And I don't think we can underestimate how coincidental and how good it was that there was critical care right there because of the marathon. That probably saved lives. The police officers responding, knowing that this would be a crime scene. And so talking to people in state and local government, I think a lot of the evidence was probably preserved. Those are lessons from 9/11. So that's good news going forward.
COOPER: And also, I mean, again, it's important to point out, God bless all those first responders. You know, we've seen the images of them running to, rushing forward, even knowing after that first explosion, that it's very possible there could be a secondary explosion. And citizens, as well.
KAYYEM: Exactly. That is the sort of post-9/11 training that has gone on on state and local and the federal government for the last 11 or 12 years.
What -- what was essential, I think, in this regard was getting these runners away from the finish line. That someone, whatever it was, that some message went out, pulled them off that street, about a half mile down the street. And pulled them over here to Commonwealth Avenue.
COOPER: And thousands of runners were able to avoid that. Obviously, we're in a high-traffic area on Massachusetts Avenue. We're just a few blocks from the end of the finish line. And we've been seeing emergency vehicles going by all day.
You and I talked in the 8 p.m. hour, and I think it's a really important point you made. That this was an area, this finish line, which was kind of a controlled area over the last several days. So -- and again, we don't want to speculate, but you would believe that whatever devices were brought in, were brought in today.
KAYYEM: Yes. It was such a secure site. And I did Boston Marathon security. So this is speculation more than who did it, a speculation. But just knowing how we secured the area. This area is going to be secure, has been secure for the last 48, 72 hours.
But when the marathon starts, that's when you have 25,000 runners coming from either family and friends, the first responders. It becomes more chaotic, I think safe to say. Controlled chaos. That is when someone could come in undetected. That is why I think it's important that you may have something on your iPhone. You may have seen something and you don't know it. Let us see it. Because they're putting these pieces together.
That's speculation on my part. I just know how we secured this area, but you know, look, a marathon is a spectator sport. And thousands of people are here, and that's what makes it fun. What we do know is, this will happen -- we'll be here again next year, and hopefully, it will be safer. I really think that the city just will bounce back very, very quickly.
COOPER: No doubt about it. It's a strong city with strong people.
Tom Fuentes, from again, from a law-enforcement background, if that is in fact the case, that this was a device or devices which were brought in today, that would actually help law enforcement in terms of narrowing down the window that they have to search for a video of when these devices could have been placed.
FUENTES: Right, Anderson. I think the window would be very narrow anyway, because a person would not want to leave a device there and figure that it's going to be intact for 12 or 24 hours. They would pretty much assume that any backpack or package left on the ground is going to be picked up and examined within a short period of time.
So it would be pretty much expected that a person would bring the device to the scene and have it detonated a very short time later to avoid having it be picked up by the authorities.
I would like to add, you know, much speculation has been made about the device and whether it has ball bearings or what type of shrapnel. This reminds me. I was an assistant commander at the Atlanta Summer Olympics in 1996 and was on duty as the assistant commander the night of the Centennial Park bombing.
That particular bomb, in a knapsack or backpack, had the explosive device, basically like a pipe bomb, and above it, a plastic food container filled with roofing nails. So that when that device exploded, it sent those nails airborne, killing one woman. And then a journalist running to the scene died of a heart attack.
But it was similar to what sounds like, maybe, the bomb today where you have some type of ball bearings or shrapnel or pieces of metal maybe placed in the container around the actual explosive to create that -- that shrapnel that went horizontal along the ground and wounded so many people in the legs.
COOPER: And Tom, I don't want to give anybody out there any ideas, so use your judgment in terms of how you answer this. But just in terms of the level of sophistication or knowledge required to make such a device, where is it? What is it?
FUENTES: Well, I'll tell you, it's not very sophisticated at all. When I was in Atlanta that summer, it was incredible. We had people being picked up almost every day with pipe bombs that they made themselves in the back of their pickup truck, and they were on their way to go fishing, literally, to throw the bombs in the water and then scoop up the fish. I mean, it seemed like everybody in Georgia knew how to make a pipe bomb and use it for purposes like that.
So it's not a highly sophisticated bomb, it doesn't sound like. The tools used to build it would be readily available, and it wouldn't be that difficult to do.
I'd like to make another point, Anderson. You know, there's been much discussing about the parsing of words: is this terrorism, isn't it terrorism, it's criminal?
First of all, terrorism is a crime. So it's automatically a criminal case if it's a terrorism case.
But secondly, if it was not terrorism, the FBI would not be in charge. It would be Boston P.D. running this case. So it's clear the authorities are absolutely clear. This is a terrorism investigation. It's a terrorism case.
And whether the politicians are worried about "It sounds bad. We don't want to say that. We've got to -- we've got to make it sound softer. It's only a crime." That's fine. But make no mistake about it. This is a terrorism investigation. That's why the FBI is running it.
FAYYEM: Can I say something?
FAYYEM: I think the point here is the motive really does not matter right now. It was clearly a terror act. Terrorism has on the defined in court and whether it's domestic or international. So the -- whether someone calls it one thing or another is sort of irrelevant at this stage.
COOPER: At this stage.
FAYYEM: Yes. I mean, it really is. It's a place that's site secure, and now it's triage at the hospital, and then the investigation starts. That's always the way it works. And I think that's the most important thing for people to remember.
COOPER: Well, let's hold it right there. Everyone stay with us.
Just back, we're just passed the bottom of the hour. For those of you just joining us here and overseas on CNN International, I just want to recap what we know at this hour, because it is; it is changing by the minute.
Tonight, a massive multiagency investigation is under way after two bombs turned the final stretch of the Boston Marathon, really, into a killing zone, exploded just 12 seconds apart along Boylston Street near Copley Square. That area now, obviously, a crime scene.
At least three people confirmed dead, including an 8-year-old boy. At least 141 people were wounded. Tonight 17 of those victims are in critical condition clinging to life.
So far, there have been no claims of responsibility for this terror attack. A federal law-enforcement source telling CNN the two bombs that exploded were small with no initial signs of high-grade explosive material.
Now, we also know that police found and defused at least one other explosive device. We started to show you this tape at the top of the program. We cut it short, due to the press conference at Mass. General Hospital. Again, this is how it unfolded in real time. And I do want to warn you: it is very raw. But this is the reality of what happened today here in Boston.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just had an attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, let's go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Truly horrifying day for everyone who witnessed it up close. "The Boston Globe's" David Able saw it firsthand. He joins me now.
David, first of all, how are you? I understand you were about ten feet away from one explosion.
DAVID ABLE, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": Yes, thank you. I'm definitely a little shaken up. It was -- it was probably the most frightening day of my life.
COOPER: Explain, if you can, what you saw, what you heard, what it was like.
ABLE: So I was standing on the center of the finish line, taking video of runners as they were coming in. It was an incredibly wonderful moment, an idyllic moment, watching the runners raise their hands in joy and jubilation, as they were finally making it across the finish line.
And just as I was kind of taking all of this footage of these really beatific faces, there was this massive boom. The ground shuddered, and I saw a large plume of white smoke. It was quite disorienting, and at first, it was unclear what happened: whether there was a machine that malfunctioned, whether there was a gas explosion, whether there was some kind of celebratory cannon fire. All the kinds of things that ordinarily probably run through our minds when we hear something that we don't expect.
But as soon as the smoke cleared, I could see -- I could see the blood. I could see the broken glass. I could see the mangled limbs. I could see people crying out for help.
COOPER: And then the second explosion.
ABLE: And then, right, and so I guess in that -- in those moments while the smoke was clearing and I was trying to process what was happening, there was the second explosion. And I sort of described it as the feeling of when the second tower -- when the second plane hit the other tower in the World Trade Center, and immediately anyone who was there knew that this was not some sort of machinery malfunction, that this was an attack.
COOPER: When you had that realization, what did you do next? When you realized, OK, this is not a generator blowing, that this is -- this is an attack, what did you do?
ABLE: You know ...
COOPER: I think we lost David. We'll try to get reconnected with him. David Able, who was there, witnessed it, was just describing what he saw at the second explosion. And I'll ask him what he did afterward. Again, we'll try to reestablish contact.
I want to bring in Jason Carroll, who is at Brigham and Women's Hospital. Jason, what -- the scene there, what are you hearing from doctors there? What's the latest?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me -- let me just start out by bringing in one of the doctors here. This is Dr. Ron Walls.
So much has been said about the types of injuries that we've been seeing, you've been experiencing here at the hospital. Can you give us the very latest in terms of what you have here? Earlier, we reported you have 28 patients. That's now up to 31?
DR. RON WALLS, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: That's right. We have 31 patients. Two of those would be considered very critical patients. We've had a total of nine that have gone to the operating room. So I've had surgery in all of those cases, major surgery. And then we have the remainder that takes you to the rest of the 31.
CARROLL: And doctor, if you will, can you just describe the extent of the injuries? Because we've been hearing so much about shrapnel, lower injuries, bone injuries, tissue injuries. What can you tell us about what you've seen so far?
WALLS: So the worst of the injuries have been injuries to the legs. There's been a lot of damage. There's a lot of blast effects from these type of explosions, so a lot of injury to the muscle, the skin. The bones are broken, those sorts of injuries.
The shrapnel has really been a relatively minor issue. There are little bits of shrapnel in some of the patients. No suggestion that the shrapnel is part of the device. Really just ambient things that were thrown around in the blast.
CARROLL: OK. That's certainly some good information there. Also, two of your patients, critical condition?
WALLS: Two are critical. And in that first 24-hour period, obviously, there could be a lot of change. But we have two patients that we have classified as critical right now.
CARROLL: We were told that one -- one of your youngest -- one of your younger patients was 3 years old, and that patient was then transferred?
WALLS: Yes. Our youngest patient was 16 years old, but the -- we had one child of 3 who was brought in initially, and we immediately re-triaged that patient to Children's Hospital, which as you know, is right beside us.
CARROLL: Doctor, I know a lot of people want to get some questions in, some of our other anchors. But before we do that very quickly, one of the nurses that came out described this as being a very emotional, trying day. I know you guys are trained for this, but does any of your training at all prepare you for what you saw today?
WALLS: Well, I don't know if you can ever prepare for something like this, but if you can, we were. So this is what we do. Every day we take care of patients with bad trauma, and we have drilled for this type of event city wide and in our hospital over and over and over again, the whole time hoping we would never have to use it. But we were ready for this.
CARROLL: Doctor, I spoke to one of the attendants who came out and said it was droves and droves of ambulances coming in. He said six at a time at one point. I'm wondering when the first injuries started to come in, when did you get -- get an idea of the extent of what you were dealing with here?
WALLS: Well, the first couple of people came in, and the second or third patient that arrived before we had had really formal notification of the numbers involved or even the details, about the second or third patient, obviously, had a very, very bad injury to the lower extremities, so we knew this was a big thing. And we activated full up right from there.
CARROLL: OK. And very finally, also, the hospital is still on lockdown. I want to point that out, as well. Have they given you any indication as to why -- why the hospital at this point has remained on lockdown? We've got SWAT out here, members of the FBI here, as well.
WALLS: We're actually not on lockdown. We're open. We have what I guess is called heightened security. So they're just being careful about making sure people who come in the hospital have identification, are patients or family members, or some of our people are clinicians and are workers. So we're open. We're just in heightened security.
CARROLL: One of our anchors, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, has a question for you. And I just want to explain to viewers, I've got an earpiece in here, so I can hear the question. The doctor cannot. So I'm going to have Dr. Sanjay Gupta give me the question, and I'll ask a few. Go ahead.
GUPTA: Yes. I wondered if you could ask Dr. Walls. He said there were nine operations, I think he said, were performed. Besides the lower limb types of operations, what other types of injuries are requiring surgery?
CARROLL: Very interesting. Dr. Sanjay Gupta mentioned the nine patients who required surgery to the lower limbs. Any idea what other types of injuries that you're seeing that require surgery?
WALLS: Yes, most of them were orthopedic injuries and injuries of sort of muscle, bone and of tissue. We did have one patient who had a lot of sort of head and facial injury that required extensive surgery. But most of the blast impact came lower down. And so most of the injuries were leg injuries.
CARROLL: Sanjay, I know you heard that. Are there any other questions, Sanjay or Anderson?
COOPER: Sanjay? I think -- I don't have any questions for the doctor. I'll leave it up to -- we'll leave it at that. Jason Carroll, I appreciate it very much. Dr. Walls, thank you very much.
CNN executive producer Matt Frucci was here watching his brother run the marathon. We're going to talk to him just shortly right after this break. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I made the turn, it was like the first pop, boom. And then another one, boom! And then another one, boom. It was just one big cloud of smoke. This is really, really bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, we have new information just now. The number of injured has now risen to 144. CNN executive producer Matt Frucci was here watching his brother running the marathon. He joins me now live. Where were you? What did you see?
MATT FRUCCI, CNN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: We were on Boyston Street, you know, really close to the finish line, really excited to see my brother finally finish, excited to see all the people there. About 1,000 people on either side of it, and we heard the first explosion off in the distance, about 100 yards away. Big plume of white smoke.
COOPER: Did you know -- did you have any idea what it was?
FRUCCI: We didn't know what that first one was. That was when we paused and said, "What was that?" But then 10 seconds later, about 20 yards from us, across the street, boom.
COOPER: Twenty yards?
FRUCCI: Twenty yards. The second one went off.
COOPER: Did you -- could you feel it?
FRUCCI: I definitely felt it in my ear. Something shook inside my ear.
COOPER: Did it have a spectacular smell or an odor or anything?
FRUCCI: No order. No. I didn't see fire. All I saw was just sort of smoke exploding up. And it looked to me like it was coming from the sidewalk almost. My first thought was maybe it was a manhole or steam pipe exploding or something like that. But a lot of people just knew it was a bomb and all just sort of started scrambling away.
COOPER: So you basically kind of took off?
FRUCCI: Everyone took off. You couldn't go the other way. It was basically like mass panic in a way. Everyone started going one way, and I sort of got pushed in with a bunch of other people into a building. And there was fear there. We didn't know if there was a third bomb. So all of sudden, is there going to be a third bomb? Is it close to us? Because the first one was far away; the second was closer. We kind of felt like maybe the third was coming a little closer.
But I was able to find my family again, and we sort of went back out the building. And then up into an entryway where we were able to look down on some of the carnage and saw people being treated on the street there.
COOPER: And did you get in touch with your brother? Was he diverted?
FRUCCI: Yes. He was about a mile away from the finish line. He got diverted. He had a cell phone on him, but the cell phones weren't really working. My other brother, his wife and his three kids were across the street. They turned out to actually be closer to the explosion. We couldn't reach them. We finally got them two or three hours later.
You know, my brother's son -- and we've got seven -- asked him, "What was that noise?" And my brother knew instantly that was a bomb, grabbed the kids and went the other way.
COOPER: That's unbelievable. So glad you're OK and everybody is all right. Thanks so much for talking about it. So many people seeing it from different angles. We're trying to kind of piece it together as best we can.
Fran Townsend again joins me, as well as Tom Fuentes.
Tom, in terms of what happens overnight, where the investigation is now, Juliette earlier was saying, you know, critical right now that law enforcement just wants to make sure there are no other devices still out there. What are the other arms of this investigation?
FUENTES: Well, the forensic work will continue. It's going to be very difficult. I'm sure they probably brought lights out to try to help them do the crime scene. And actually both crime scenes where both bombs went off.
As far as the rest of the work, there are a number of records that they're going to need to obtain; subpoenas that have to be written, prepared, types, ready to give to businesses for telephone records, Internet records, the cell tower, how many phones were hitting off of the cell phone towers that were in close proximity to the end of that race, the finish line.
So there's a -- work will be going on around the clock. And of course, any identity of international persons of interest or others, that work would be daytime overseas, in other parts of the world. So that work will be continuing, working with other countries if there are leads that are led to request that information overseas. So there will be a tremendous amount of work going on around the clock indefinitely from this point.
COOPER: And Fran, just from, you know, an investigation standpoint, because this was such an international event, tens of thousands of people coming from all over the country, all over the world, tracking people who are not from this area, I mean, coming in by plane, coming in by train, that's going to be very difficult.
TOWNSEND: It is, Anderson. And let's remember, you know, we understand that this is an international event. Many -- there are people from around the world who are running in it. And so every country who had citizens coming here to run will have reached out -- those countries will reach to their ambassadors. The ambassadors will be trying to gather information on potential victims in this country, who were at that event running.
And, you know, so it works both ways. We'll be looking for the assistance of our foreign partners around the world. But also, the international citizens who are our guests at the Boston Marathon who may have been injured or hurt, their home countries and ambassadors in the United States will be trying to get information to help them.
COOPER: John King, you know this city very well. From the sources that you've been talking to, how optimistic do they sound to you?
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the sources are optimistic that eventually they will get there, Anderson. But tonight what is not being said is probably as important, if not more important, as what is being said. And that's because there are more questions than answers.
When it comes to the big motive question, people are divided. Obviously, as Fran just noted, this is a big international event. If you were an international terrorist group, trying to get worldwide attention, this could be your target. But also, as you know, this is at a time in our history where has been domestic-related terrorism. So they're being very, very careful not to speculate about a motive.
And because of the painstaking forensic work, as Tom just mentioned, that's one of the reasons this is a neighborhood right in the heart of the city of Boston, critical to the financial economy, critical as a tourist spot. The site just steps away from some of the most robust shopping in Boston.
The subway station underneath here will be closed tomorrow, Governor Patrick saying the governor saying most of the area will be affected tomorrow because they understand because of the chaos, because of the type of explosive devices, because of the scattered evidence, if you will, they're going to stay at that law enforcement sources say to grab every possible piece of evidence at that scene.
COOPER: Well, John, appreciate all your reporting today. Fran, as well. Tom Fuentes, as well.
When we come back, we'll update you with all the latest information. Also, how you can locate loved ones you might not have been able to contact them so far. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Coming up, on the top of the hour, here's what we know right now. At least three people have died in the bombings here in Boston today. One of them an 8-year-old boy.
At least 144 people -- that's the new number -- were injured. At least 17 of them in critical condition; 25 are in serious condition right now. At least eight patients are children.
President Obama said he's ordered the full resources of the federal government to respond to the bombing. A Navy explosives team is helping local authorities. The ATF's national response team has been activated, with explosive experts from Boston, New York and Washington sent to the scene.
So far no one has claimed responsibility for the attack.
There's also a lot more coverage ahead. And we also want to give you a couple phone numbers right now. The Boston mayor's hotline for people looking for their loved ones is 617-635-4500. And the Boston CRIME-TIPS hotline for anyone with information at 1-800-494-TIPS. That it's 800-494-TIPS.
That does it for this edition of 360. Tonight, our thoughts, of course, our prayers are with the victims of this tragedy here in Boston and with their families.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.