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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Boston Bombing Investigation Continues; Suspicious Letter Sent to Senate; Interview With Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani; Giuliani Weighs in on Boston Bombing; 29-Year-Old Woman Among the Dead; Vigil Held for 8-Year-Old Victim and Others; Obama: Americans are 'Selfless,' 'Unafraid'

Aired April 16, 2013 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. It is 10:00 here in Boston.

And there are many developments, late developments this evening in the bombing and the breaking news back in Washington as well.

We have just gotten photos of what is left of one of the pressure cookers likely used to make the crude bombs. They come by way of local Atlanta station WHDH. We have confirmed that these indeed are from a series of evidence photos taken by authorities.

In one of the fragments, you can see part of a logo and what appears to be a serial number or product I.D. Here's another shot with possibly traceable numbers. The pictures, some of which appear to be taken at the scene, also show the remains of a shredded black knapsack or a backpack, all of which is now being analyzed by authorities.

Now, the pictures come from a bulletin sent out to law enforcement agencies so that everyone can compare notes. There is this photo as well from local affiliate WHDH showing a bag next to mailbox right where the first bag went off at the marathon finish line.

The question tonight, of course, was it one of the bombs? The FBI is analyzing it, along with fragments of the pressure cooker. There is that and there is this, breaking news out of Washington, a letter to the senator testing positive both in the field and now in the lab for the deadly poison ricin.

Dana Bash is going to be working her sources on that. She will be joining us shortly.

We have also learned more about those who lost their lives in the blast, as the wounded and the heroes who rose up in the chaos to help others. We don't yet know much about the third fatality. We have just learned that she was a Chinese national, a graduate student at Boston University, not far from here. Her name is being withheld at the request of her family.

Today, we also learned about Krystle Campbell. She died in the blast. She came yesterday to watch her friend cross the finish line. Her mom says that she worked 16-hour days at a local seafood restaurant but was never too tired to share her love, never too tired to share a smile. Krystle Campbell was just 29 years old.

Martin Richard, he was just 8 years old. His mother and 6-year-old sister recovering from surgery tonight. That sign that he is holding for a second-grade peach march reads "No more hurting people."

Three lives lost, dozens more lives changed forever. We honor them tonight and we also honor this strong city. For all that has happened here, you should know this is not a city under siege. This is not a city of fear tonight. Yes, people may be holding their kids a little tighter, keeping their eyes open a little wider, but this is a city where today life and love and liberty continue.

People went jogging today. They walked their dogs, they brought their children to the playground and to the schools. Boston has been battered, yes, but it is by no means broken, not now, not ever.

We have learned from 9/11, and perhaps what we have learned most is that in the face of horror and hate, we must all stand tall, stand proud and stand together and never, ever let anyone with a bomb and a backpack stop us from moving forward. Never let anyone with a bomb and a backpack stop us from crossing that finish line.

A lot to cover tonight.

Let's start by quickly updating you on where things stand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Targeting the most photographed spot that day in a crowded city full of cameras may have sewn terror . It may also ultimately seal the bomber's fate.

ED DAVIS, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Any videos or photographs that happened, not just at that scene, but anywhere in the immediate vicinity could be helpful to this investigation.

COOPER: They're already looking at hundreds of videos and photographs searching for a face, a bundle, a bomb, two devices, not more, as first reported and feared.

GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: All other parcels in the area of the blast have been examined, but there are no unexploded bombs. There were no unexploded explosive devices found.

COOPER: And the two that caused all this, explosives and shrapnel packed into pressure cookers stuffed into sacks likely detonated by timers, not by cell phones, also a device a would-be bomber could find on the Internet, crude, deadly and troubling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These pressure cookers are a technique that is used by the Taliban and by al Qaeda in Afghanistan. They're very effective weapons. They try to pick these pressure cookers up wherever they can. And they use them to make their IEDs.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The FBI is investigating as an act of terrorism. Any time bombs are used to target innocent civilians, it is an act of terror.

COOPER: Terror, he went on to say, murder, maiming, traumatic amputations by persons unknown, nationality unknown, allegiance unknown.

His homeland security secretary ruling out a broader plot, a high- level source going further.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a senior U.S. official is now telling me that -- quote -- "There is no reporting indicating a foreign connection or any reaction from al Qaeda."

COOPER: So it might be the video that tells or the forensics, the crime scene still hot, still active. It's already borne witness to ordinary people doing extraordinary things to stop the bleeding, to ease the suffering and to start the healing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: More now on the investigation, the fragments, the possible pressure cooker we just saw as well as shreds of what might be that black nylon bag that the FBI says the bombs were stuffed in, that plus that new photo we showed you a minute ago that might -- and I repeat might -- show a bag at the site of the first bomb blast.

Drew Griffin and John King are with me tonight. Each has been working their sources all day and well into the night. Also, CNN national analyst Fran Townsend is doing the same for us in Washington.

John, the photos that the FOX affiliate in Atlanta first showed that we're showing now, what do you make of them? What are we learning?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, sources confirm they are legitimate, taken from the scene.

What they tell you, Anderson, a very impressive job in the 30 hours or so since the bombing in placing together exactly what happened, what the devices were made of, how it was constructed and a rough idea that police believe in how it got there and the timing, six-liter pressure cooker.

They believe there were two of those devices. They have recovered some of the fragments. Those are now at the Quantico lab. The problem is they have a very good idea how this happened, the type of explosive and how it was put together.

As to the who, from all accounts I have spoken to tonight, they're almost nowhere in the sense of who. That's why you have the public appeal from the FBI. What do they hope now? All these parts, including the debris from the pressure cooker, some pieces from the fabric of the backpack at the Quantico FBI lab, could there be a fingerprint, could there be some other DNA evidence of something that links it to an individual?

Or if that doesn't, and that's what they most hope for, can you get something from the serial number, something from the brand name, something that you could trace it back to where it was purchased and then maybe get clues as to who it was purchased. How did this happen? What were the devices like? They have made a lot of progress. To the big question who...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: If there is any kind of serial number on that pressure cooker that we have seen in the photo, though, that would be a big break in allowing them to perhaps figure out where it was purchased.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: You could tell perhaps what chain sold it, where the manufacturer sends this stuff, and then you do actual, you know, strong footwork, sending detectives out to these stores, going through the receipts as the FBI SAC said today.

But also very interesting, the photos that we're seeing, Anderson, are part of this bulletin that's gone out. The bomb community in the United States is a very small fraternity. They share information with each other because it's such a dangerous thing.

So what they're also doing in releasing these two within that community is saying, hey, did you ever have a case like this? Has there been any bombs found? Did you find any kids, anybody practicing with cookers somewhere in the last couple of years, couple of weeks, couple of days, anything that would spark a connection here?

It is sort of rare to have pressure cooker bombs. It is. It's not hard to make, apparently, but there might be some kind of link that will give them an edge, and that's why they sent out this bulletin, or one of the reasons they did.

COOPER: And Fran Townsend, you're also joining us.

There is a lot of -- I mean, a backlog of intelligence on the international front that would still have to be gone through, correct, signals intelligence, all sorts of reports.

FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: That's right, Anderson, and so the bomb forensics that Drew and John are talking about will then be taken and try to match that up, link that, if you will, with photographs, video surveillance, cell phone surveillance and the international intelligence that you're describing.

All of that is the sort of stuff that you have got to weave together to try and make sense of the who. The who is the big question. You know, we talk a lot about, is it a domestic -- was it a domestic- driven attack, a foreign attack, or, frankly, a combination, right, a homegrown jihadist who was inspired like the Nidal Hasans.

We have seen the use of pressure cookers before. The failed Times Square bombing did use pressure cookers. That was unsuccessful. You have got to say to yourself this person didn't put together one that went off, put together two. Did they act alone or was it part of a small group? All those are questions that remain sort of unanswered tonight. COOPER: Drew, my understanding is that the pressure cooker that was found in the vehicle in Times Square is different than the kind of device they're seeing this time around. Is that correct?

GRIFFIN: Well, the pressure cooker, now, if I remember correctly now, that was found at Times Square was not the actual device that was going to explode. It contained wires, it contained equipment, it contained things that you would want to keep weather-proof.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And you have been looking into this. You have actually a pressure cooker here.

GRIFFIN: I have a pressure cooker.

This is obviously -- we have no idea what kind of pressure cooker was used in this case. But I just wanted to show a pressure cooker for two reasons. One, it's pretty easy to get. I went out to a local store, a local chain and I bought it, $42, right?

Also, this fits into anything you see around here, any kind of black nylon bag. And all these runners we have been seeing walking around with backpacks, this is just -- everybody could have this in their backpack, so it's very easy to contain, put stuff inside it.

You know, it's hard to defend, even though there were two bomb sweeps at that very location. It's very hard, with the amount of people and the openness of our society, the openness of Boston.

COOPER: It does seem, though, that given if there were timing devices involved, it seems like there would be a certain window of time that authorities would know to look at, that this was not a device that could have been placed a day or two in advance.

KING: As to the timing devices, I'm also told that at least one circuit board was recovered in the proximity of one of the pressure cooker pieces, so they believe the circuit board was part of a timing device, part of a timing trigger.

To the point about timing, that is why the video surveillance and what I'm told is a frantic force to go back and piece it together is so important. To Drew's point, what they believe, you have more dignitaries, more security, more people at the finish line when the elite runners are crossing. That was almost two hours before the bombing.

After that, things get a little bit looser -- and that's what the police are surmising. As things got a little bit looser, the crowd at the finish line is changing. The elite people leave. The everyday runners, the friends and families of the people who ran four hours or so, they start to show up. Easier, they believe, for someone to come through.

That is when they think these devices were placed. They are hoping -- I was told this afternoon they don't see it in any video yet -- they are hoping to see some video or to get help from the public or some business surveillance camera that shows a drop, a placement. That's what they're trying to put together.

COOPER: Fran, what is the significance of a circuit board?

TOWNSEND: Well, these pressure cookers, when you look at the construction -- and, frankly, Anderson, it's available. It's a crude device that's available on the Internet. It doesn't take that many component pieces. You need a circuit board, you need the timing device.

These get linked up in a fairly crude what you call closed circuit, and that's how you detonate it. What it does is it ignites the powder, we presume in this case, gunpowder inside, pressure builds, and it builds to the point that what actually explodes is the pressure cooker from the buildup of gas inside.

COOPER: And, Fran, again, just for our viewers, we should point out this is the kind of information which is readily available on the Internet, unfortunately, these days, and which people have known about for years. I just don't want people to think we're giving away instructions on how to make this sort of device.

John and Drew, I appreciate the reporting, Fran as well.

At the risk of embarrassing my next guest, people did heroic things yesterday. Boston Medical Center's Dr. Natalie Stavas, she was certainly one of them. She was running her race with her dad near the finish line when the explosions hit. She swung into action helping to try to save lives.

Dr. Stavas thanks so much for being with us again.

DR. NATALIE STAVAS, BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER: Hello, Anderson. Thank you so much.

COOPER: We talked two hours ago, but -- and I don't want to make you constantly relive this, but I do think it's so important to highlight what you and so many others did, which is running toward this blast to try to do what you could to help.

When you -- you had finished this race or you were in the final stretch of the race, you were exhausted, you heard the blast, and you knew you had to do something.

STAVAS: I did. I did.

I think a lot of us, especially a lot of us who go into the medical field have this instinct, right, this instinct that we need to be there, we can be there, and we can help. And that instinct kicks in and you can think of nothing else. You also have the instinct when you're a marathon runner that I just need to get to the finish line, right? So you have got two of those things together and it creates one powerful surge, a surge of emotion and fear and intensity that...

COOPER: You never know, though, how you're going to react. People who think they're going to be calm and controlled freak out, and people who think they're going to freak out actually find themselves calm and able to operate.

You were clearly able to operate. When you ran toward the scene, can you describe what it was like?

STAVAS: Yes.

It was -- it was very -- I had this one thought in my head, that I need to get there to help these people, and that's all I could focus on at that time is that there had to be something I could do to help these people. And, fortunately, you know, after I told one of the police officers that I was a pediatric resident, they said, we need your help at the front, Doctor. We need you to be there and help us, and they tried to run with me down to escort me down, but I sprinted ahead of them.

COOPER: Yes.

You were running faster than them even after running a marathon?

STAVAS: I was.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Were you talking to people? The people you were treating, were they unconscious?

STAVAS: The first woman that I saw was unconscious. I never did speak to her.

The second woman I saw, she had a wound in her groin, and I told her that we were putting pressure on her groin and the ambulance would be there soon. The third man I saw with the foot injury, he kept saying, am I going to be OK, Doctor, am I going to be OK, Doctor?

I tourniqueted his leg and then I just looked at him and said, yes, you're going to be OK.

COOPER: Did you believe that at the time?

STAVAS: I think so. I think I did. I believed it. I was hoping it. I was hoping it for sure.

It just -- Anderson, it just breaks my heart that these spectators who came to watch us run who are most of the reason why we get through the marathon is because of these people and their generosity and their spirit, and to see them suffering was just -- it's just gut-wrenching.

COOPER: And I talked to a spectator today who is in the hospital, and we're going to play some of that a little later in the broadcast. What he remembers was -- the first thing was runners taking off their shirts running to him and tying tourniquets around his leg with their shirts.

So I think many of the spectators I know feel glad that they were there, despite all that happened, and I talked to the man today and he said he would go back next year. He would do it again.

STAVAS: Wow. That's powerful.

COOPER: How do you -- I mean, process is such a stupid word, but how do you deal with this? I know you deal with -- you see a lot of terrible things in your work, but to see it on a mass scale like this in a place you didn't expect, how are you doing?

STAVAS: Right. I'm doing OK.

We have -- we have wonderful support systems in the residency program that I'm in. People reach out, people who reach out to you in a time of tragedy. I am so blessed. My family is safe. My mom was 100 feet from the blast. My dad was right behind me, and we're safe, and I just -- I feel such a loss -- I feel such a loss for the people, and whether or not this is true or how I should feel, I almost feel a sense of responsibility.

They were there cheering for me, for me as a collective group, and it's just hard to process that something tragic happened because they were there for me.

COOPER: Yes. I think all of us are so moved by your response and by the response of so many citizens and first-responders. People could have left, could have run away, but didn't, and at great risk to themselves.

STAVAS: I'm so thankful for them, too, and for all the people who came in, both physicians and civilians, everyone, I mean, wow.

COOPER: I want to bring in Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who has been working talking with doctors all day.

It is really a testament and I think really made -- it made a huge difference the fact that there were doctors there, there were so many nurses, because it was the end of the race, and they had a triage unit set up.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Speed matters here.

And Natalie probably won't like me saying this, but she saved lives I think almost assuredly because simply being able to stop bleeding in a situation like that long enough to allow the transport to happen, to get someone to a hospital makes a huge difference.

We're used to talking about that context on battlefields, but not in a mass casualty sort of situation like this suddenly became. And, again, she just ran four hours and was still able to do this. That's pretty extraordinary.

COOPER: Did you know instantly that, I mean, just by the nature of the wounds that this was some sort of explosive device and it had been low to the ground? It seems like most of the injuries were kind of lower extremities. STAVAS: All I can say is that I knew it was something horrific, and I was treating people, and I was trying to triage people and running to people, and I kept saying to myself, this can't be real. I must have passed out from dehydration or something. This must be a dream at the end of the marathon.

And I kept saying, this can't be real, this can't be real. Oh, my God, I have never seen anything like this, the casualties and the amount of -- the damage that was done to some of these people.

COOPER: Does it feel real now? Because often in a situation like this, you know, it's a front line a few blocks from here, and then you walked a few blocks today, and there was people out running and people walking their dogs and playing with their children.

STAVAS: I know. I just -- it feels real and it feels very sad. It's a deep sadness that I feel that's very hard to explain.

COOPER: Yes.

There's also, I sense, and I wonder -- maybe either of you can speak to this. Just in talking to people today, just people out literally walking with their kids and playing, that there is a sense of defiance, that people do not want this to define the city, to define who we are, and a sense of we need to stand tall in the face of this and live our lives and be defiant.

STAVAS: I think there is a great spirit in the city, and I think there is a great spirit amongst runners in general and amongst the crowd that supports us.

And I feel like in times like this, people come together. And my dad made a real good analogy. At the end of the race was Heartbreak Hill, and this is almost like the Heartbreak Hill part. And we're trying to help each other through it. And, hopefully at the end, we will be able to come out with some sort of peace and an ability to move forward. I know I plan on running the marathon again next year.

COOPER: You do?

STAVAS: I do. And I hope my dad will run it again next with me so we can cross the finish line like we as planned, like super cheesily holding hands for the picture.

COOPER: I wish I was in good enough shape just to run it.

STAVAS: You could run it, Anderson.

COOPER: No, I don't think I could.

(CROSSTALK)

STAVAS: You could run it. I believe in you.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: We will see. Maybe I will try to train.

Sanjay, in terms of the other -- the patients who are still in hospitals, what are you hearing in terms of -- a number of patients have already been released, but there are a lot of folks who are going to be in the hospital for a time.

GUPTA: Yes, I think so.

There are nine different hospitals where patients are being cared for. Several of them still have patients in critical condition. Critical condition means exactly that. Their vital signs are unstable to the point where the doctors and the nurses are quite concerned about them.

That's going to be a long road. Even for the patients who are now improved that have undergone these amputations, just the rehab and all the things that go into their lives from now on, that's going to be quite a road for them. So this is -- you know, we talk about this every time, Anderson. The news cycle will continue for a period of time, and there will be a lot of this galvanization around these people that hopefully will continue even after you leave and that they still continue to get that support.

COOPER: Yes. Well, hopefully, none of us will ever forget this, and I will certainly never forget your efforts and the efforts of all of those.

So, thank you. It's really an honor to meet you.

STAVAS: Thank you, Anderson. It's a pleasure. Thank you, Anderson.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Sanjay, thank you as well.

We were talking a moment ago about a man I visited in the hospital just earlier today who owes his life to quick medical action on the scene. His name is Ron Brassard. Take a look at what we talked about earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON BRASSARD, BOMBING VICTIM: It was just this explosion, and very nearby. It was so close that you couldn't hear after the explosion.

COOPER: Really? So you couldn't actually hear anything?

BRASSARD: I couldn't -- I could see people's mouths moving and stuff, but I couldn't hear anything.

COOPER: How close were you to the first...

BRASSARD: I think we were probably about 10 feet away.

COOPER: Wow. BRASSARD: When we saw -- on the news today, we saw where the explosion occurred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: He considers himself, obviously, very lucky and he wanted to make sure that everybody knows that his thoughts are with those whose lives were lost and those who are far more injured than he is, and his wife is doing OK as well. She's at a separate hospital.

They hope that she will be transferred to Tufts Medical Center so they can at least be together and see each other regularly.

Let us know what your thoughts are on this, this evening. You can follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper.

We have a lot more coverage ahead, breaking news from Washington -- a letter addressed to a U.S. senator testing positive for the poison ricin, a deadly poison it is. We have the latest on that coming up.

Also, remembering those who lost their lives in the tragedy, 8-year- old Martin Richard, a bright energetic boy with big dreams for his future. We will take a look at his life and the life of 29-year-old Krystle Campbell, who went to watch the marathon every single year, wouldn't miss it for the world.

We remember the victims and we want to tell you about their lives, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back to our live continuing coverage from Boston. We have more breaking news tonight.

A letter that tested positive for the deadly poison ricin was intercepted at the U.S. Capitol's mail facility in Washington. They said the letter did test positive for ricin. It was addressed to the office of Republican Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi. The letter is undergoing further testing. Senator Wicker now has a protective detail assigned to him.

Our chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, joins me now live with the latest.

Dana, you confirmed this story first with a tip from our own Mike Brooks. The initial testing was positive. Further testing is going on now. What's the latest you have heard?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we can now report from the Senate sergeant at arms, Terry Gainer, that the envelope did test positive today at the actual lab, so they feel confident that at this point that it is a positive test for ricin.

Of course, they had the initial test, as you pointed out, in the field office which are historically not that reliable, but this was done in the actual lab. The other thing that we can report is the exterior markings on the envelope sent to Senator wicker were not outwardly suspicious, but it was postmarked from Memphis, Tennessee, which is not far from Wicker's home state of Mississippi.

The other thing we can report is that it had no return address, and at this hour -- we reported earlier one senator thought maybe there was a suspect in custody. We can report that it is still an ongoing case and that is not true.

The other thing that we can tell you is that Senate officials are taking precautions. They have closed the postal facilities. I believe we have a picture of the one that -- there you see it, the one where this particular letter was sent. They have closed them for two or three days while the testing goes on, while law enforcement continues to investigate.

So this is something that is very, very important to senators, as you can imagine, and they got a briefing just earlier tonight about everything that has gone on.

COOPER: We should also point out that mail at the Capitol doesn't go directly to congressional offices anymore.

BASH: It doesn't.

The first stop for Capitol mail now is at off-site facilities, like the one we just showed you. It doesn't come directly to the Capitol complex and there is a very specific reason for that, exactly what we're seeing tonight, the concern that people will send things that are toxic or poisonous.

And that is because of what happened back in 2001. A couple of Senate offices received letters that were laced with anthrax. Senators say tonight that they're happy that this process changed all those years ago, because in this case, the process worked.

COOPER: Dana, I appreciate the reporting. Thank you very much.

Joining me right now live is former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Mr. Mayor, I appreciate you being with us.

I'm just wondering. You have obviously experience with a city that's come under attack. This is the kind of attack that big cities have been on the lookout for and really concerned about for years now. What do you make of where this investigation is?

RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Well, you know, this is the kind of attack that I thought, and I think many others did, was going to happen quite frequently after September 11.

I think we first have to say that we're fortunate that we have been able to stop so many of them. I think the government has done a good job of interrupting many of these attacks that could have taken place. This one is really horrible, horrible because of the death of a young child, the other fatalities that took place, the injuries, the reality that no matter how hard you try, no matter how good a job you do -- and I have no doubt the Boston police did a great job in policing the marathon -- these people, whoever they are, can get through.

And we don't know yet what this is. Is it ideologically based? Is it some kind of an insane situation? There is no way of knowing right now, you know, exactly what it is. All we can do is speculate.

COOPER: In terms of, you know, fears, I have talked to so many people today who said, look, we don't want to live in fear. We don't want this to change the way we live, and I think that's an important message to get across.

But at a public event, there is no way you can have 100 percent safety.

GIULIANI: There's no question about it. I have faced it many, many times when I was mayor of New York.

We almost canceled the marathon in 2001 because it was shortly after September 11, big debate about whether to go forward with it. We almost canceled the millennium celebration in 2000. I think they canceled the one in Seattle as a result of terrorist threats.

And while they're going on, you wonder, did you make the right decision? And you actually just say a little prayer. I remember getting up at the celebration in 2000 thinking, well, if anybody is here, I'm dead.

So, I mean, so these are threats we live with, but the reality is -- and this is hard for people to absorb a day after an attack like this -- this is not the way you're going to die. The reality is there are many, many more things that threaten us far more than terrorism. These are terrible when they happen.

It's hardly any solace to someone who's lost a child or lost an arm, or -- but the reality is the threat of terrorism is sporadic, and then the way they -- the way they use it, they sort of spread that fear by frightening us so much.

COOPER: I also feel sort of a sense of defiance among people here that I think we've really learned from 9/11, a sense of kind of fighting back. And I think we saw that in the heroism of the first responders and also citizens who, you know, just rolled up their sleeves and ran toward the blast to help those in need.

GIULIANI: Wow, that was terrific. Wasn't it? I said that to Mayor Menino tonight, it reminded me of my firefighters and police officers and citizens on September 11.

As soon as I got out of the building we were trapped in, the first thing I looked for was how were they acting, how were they reacting, and the way they were reacting was very brave, very calm, helping each other. Firefighters, police officers going in, trying to take people out.

When you look at that film footage, you see those firefighters and police officers jumping over -- jumping over the fence, it looks like, and then some of the runners jumping over the fence, headed right for the flames. And, boy, that gives you a sense that these people in Boston are pretty darn tough, just like the people in New York...

COOPER: Yes.

GIULIANI: ... and just like the people all over America.

COOPER: Yes, I talked to a man -- We just played part of the interview -- in a hospital today who was wounded, and he said the first people who got him were actually runners. And the first thing they did is they ripped off their shirts and made tourniquets to try to stop the bleeding on his leg. And I just think that's such an important kind of image to put out there.

Mayor Giuliani, I really appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you.

GIULIANI: Thank you. Very good coverage, Anderson. It's really terrific.

COOPER: Thank you very much.

GIULIANI: Thank you.

COOPER: I appreciate it. It's a privilege to be here in this city at this time.

Just ahead, we're going to talk to some of those people just like you've been -- you've been talking about who ran into danger to save lives. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your sleeve there, is that blood on your sleeve?

CARLOS ARENDONDO, BOMBING SURVIVOR: My pants, my clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me that flag.

ARENDONDO: This is the flag I was holding the whole time, and this is how the flag ended up, carrying the blood of all of these victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was Carlos Arendondo. When many people acted heroically yesterday, he lost a son in Iraq, he lost another son to suicide. He had people running in honor of his sons during the race. When the bomb went off, he ran right toward the explosion. He helped a man who had lost both of his legs, likely helped save that man's life. Just one of the many heroes who rose up after the explosions.

Despite the heroic efforts of so many people, three lives were lost. The Chinese consulate in New York tonight is saying that they've confirmed that one Chinese citizen was killed. She was a graduate student of Boston University. As we said earlier, her name is not being released at the request of her family.

Also killed, 29-year-old Krystle Campbell, and adding tragedy on top of tragedy, a mix-up at the hospital led to doctors mistakenly telling her parents that she was alive. Jason Carroll reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Krystle Campbell's mother Patty so overcome by grief as she stood on her front porch, each word was a struggle.

PATTY CAMPBELL, MOTHER OF KRYSTLE: We are heartbroken at the death of our daughter, Krystle Marie. She was a wonderful person. Everybody that knew her loved her.

CARROLL: A family spokesman finally had to read her statement and say what she could not.

BRIAN KENNY, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Everyone who knew her loved her. She was sweet and kind and friendly, always smiling. She worked so hard at everything she did.

CARROLL: Krystle Campbell's story, a tragic case of mistaken identity. The 29-year-old had gone to the marathon with her friend. Both were caught in the first explosion. Her parents say doctors told them their daughter survived, and they were trying to save her leg. But when Campbell's parents were finally allowed to see her, they discovered it wasn't her at all but her friend.

CAMPBELL: This doesn't make any sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of a daughter was she, ma'am?

CAMPBELL: She was the best. You couldn't ask for a better daughter.

CARROLL: Campbell, described as sweet and kind by those who knew her here at the restaurant where she worked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would like her immediately, and she was one of the hardest workers we had, and I think that's what our crew here enjoyed most about her, is she would get in the trenches and work right next to you. She wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty, so she was a very, very popular manager.

CARROLL: A devastating mix-up, leaving a grief-stricken family wondering how it all could have happened.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Jason Carroll joins us now. Such a horrible mix-up. What are -- what are the folks at Mass General saying about it?

CARROLL: Well, basically, they are still looking into it, Anderson, but a spokeswoman would only tell us tonight that, at this point, there is no official record of Krystle Campbell being here at the hospital, but her family says this is the place where she was identified, so you can imagine this whole ordeal has just compounded their grief.

COOPER: Yes. Jason, appreciate your reporting today.

Tonight we also remember Martin Richard. Eight years old, a bright, energetic young boy from Dorchester. Gary Tuchman has more on the little boy whose life ended far too soon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is how Martin Richard will be remembered. The beaming 8-year-old boy holding this sign in a picture taken last year when he participated in a walk to promote peace in inner city Boston. The sign declaring, "No more hurting people," and the word "peace."

This is also how he'll be remembered: as a brother and son. Martin was attending the marathon with his entire family on Monday, at the finish line in Boston's Back Bay. His father Bill and older brother Henry on the lower left were not hurt, but his mother Denise and younger sister Jane were seriously injured. His sister, who was a dancer, lost a leg and may lose part of another leg.

His father, releasing a written statement describing this real-life nightmare: "My dear son Martin has died from injuries sustained in the attack in Boston. My wife and daughter are both recovering from serious injuries. We thank our family and friends, those we know and those we have never met, for their thoughts and prayers. I ask that you continue to pray for my family as we remember Martin. We also ask for your patience and for privacy as we work to simultaneously grieve and recover. Thank you."

In front of the Richard family house in the Dorchester section of Boston, friends and neighbors left flowers. We talked to the Richards' next-door neighbor, who saw Bill Richard when he came home Monday night without his son, daughter and wife.

JANE SHERMAN, NEIGHBOR: He looked like he was in a state of shock, and I said, "Bill." He didn't answer me. He just walked very slowly into the house. His friend came over, and I said, "Is everything OK?"

And he said, "No. Martin was the little boy that was killed." And I was -- I was speechless. And I didn't -- I think he probably said something about Denise and the little girl, but I was really interested...

TUCHMAN (on camera): His wife and daughter?

SHERMAN: Right. And I was in such a state of shock, I didn't even hear what he said. I started to cry, and I said, "Please, if there's anything we can do, just let him know I am here."

TUCHMAN (voice-over): This is also how Martin will be remembered. A Boston Bruins fan, attending a hockey game at the Bruins' home rink, the TD Garden.

He will also be remembered like this: a faithful boy who regularly attended church with his family. And friendly and smart, too, as his school said in a statement: "Martin was a bright, energetic young boy who had big dreams and high hopes for his future. We are heartbroken by this loss."

Martin's relatives took to Twitter to write about the 8-year-old. One cousin saying, "I love you, Martin. You will be in my mind forever and ever."

And Martin will also be remembered this way, from an aunt on Twitter writing, "Martin, you were the sweetest, funniest boy. I'm going to miss you so much. But now you are an angel."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It's still all so hard to believe. Gary Tuchman, obviously, joins me now.

You were at a vigil for Martin and for the other victims tonight in Dorchester.

TUCHMAN: It was very moving, because it was almost entirely word of mouth. Early this afternoon there was no word of any vigil. It turns out tonight between 1,000 and 1,200 people showed up to seek solace with each other, comfort with each other and honor all three of the people who died, including little Martin. It was only about a mile away from his house.

An interesting thing, Anderson, they also honored the first responders who did such an amazing job helping so many people.

COOPER: Yes. And saved so many lives.

TUCHMAN: Yes.

COOPER: No doubt about it. And Gary, I appreciate the reporting. A lot more to talk about.

Joining me now is Bill Fiore (ph), a friend of the Richard family. Bill, I'm so sorry for your loss. What was Martin like?

BILL FIORE (PH), FRIEND OF THE RICHARD FAMILY: Wow. Martin was a remarkable young man and just a kid, really. Eight years old. A wonderful athlete, a bright student.

COOPER: He loved the Bruins.

FIORE (PH): He loved the Bruins. He loved the Red Sox, too. He wore his Dustin Pedroia shirt to school last week.

The headmaster at the school, I was talking to him before we came on the air. He wanted me to emphasize that he was not only a great athlete, but he was also a great student, very compassionate, very caring. When there was another student struggling in that class, they turned to -- they turned to Martin to help tutor him along. Just a very -- a quiet kid but a compassionate kid and somebody who was a leader.

COOPER: And obviously, we don't want to do anything to intrude on the family's privacy, but Martin's mom and the sister are also in the hospital.

FIORE (PH): Yes. I'm sorry to say that Denise, his mom, took a wound to the head with shrapnel, and she's been in surgery. And his little sister, Janie, wonderful, sweet girl, also lost -- lost a limb. .

COOPER: And she just started dancing.

FIORE (PH): Yes, she's an Irish step dancer, loves it, and, you know, everyone I've talked to, one thing they said is if anyone is going to bounce back from this, it's Janie. She's a pistol. She's a tough kid, energetic. And I don't think her dancing days are over.

COOPER: Yes. I certainly hope not. I know we haven't talked to Martin's dad, but the family, it's -- I mean, they'll never be the same, obviously.

FIORE (PH): No. I mean, we've always thought of them -- we've lived in the same neighborhood, and I've had the pleasure of covering them for a local newspaper, and it's one of those families anyone would want next door to them. Because...

COOPER: Really civically minded.

FIORE (PH): ... they're totally civic-minded. And the social life -- the neighborhood revolves around them and their house. They're so inviting and welcoming. They've done so many things in our community, in Dorchester, to improve life there.

And we've always thought of them as one unit, just almost like a singular, the Richards. They're always together anywhere they go, to the sports fields, the school or church. You see all five of them. And that's no longer the case.

COOPER: And we saw the community coming out for them tonight and no doubt will be there for them in the days ahead.

FIORE (PH): There's no question Boston is going to rally. Dorchester is going to rally in a big way for this family. Dad I'm not concerned about, but obviously, we still are concerned about the health of both Jane and Denise.

COOPER: They're in our thoughts and our prayers.

FIORE (PH): Thank you.

COOPER: And I think that goes for people around the world. Appreciate it.

FIORE (PH): Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Thank you so much for being with us.

FIORE (PH): You bet.

COOPER: Well, just ahead tonight, more on the hunt for the people or group responsible for this act of terror, or the single person. We don't know at this point.

Some late developments: photos of what's left of one of the pressure cookers likely used to make the crude bombs. We'll get our expert's take just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: NEIL DIAMOND'S "SWEET CAROLINE")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The New York Yankees paying tribute to Boston tonight with the Neil Diamond song "Sweet Caroline." The song is a staple at Boston Red Sox games. It played at Yankee Stadium after a moment of silence for the bombing victims.

Outside Yankee Stadium, a powerful message, "United We Stand." The Yankees and the Red Sox logos, two bitter rivals, obviously, coming together.

Tonight we know more about the bombs that were used in yesterday's terrorist attack. The FBI has made some progress on that front, but as far as suspects, let alone arrests, nothing. Obviously, investigators have an enormous amount of information to sort through and analyze, and that, obviously, is going to take time.

Joining me now is CNN contributor, former assistant homeland -- secretary for homeland security, Juliette Kayyem. Also back with us, the chief national correspondent and Boston native, we should also point out, John King. And a Washington CNN contributor and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes.

Juliette, in terms of, you know, we've been showing this picture of a pressure cooker device in a bag. What do you make of where this investigation now stands?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, it's going to be both forensics, which is going to be reassembling the devices and then determining whether there's fingerprints, hairs. This black wrapping that's supposed to be around it, where might that have come from, as well as the eyewitness accounts and the pictures and all the stuff the FBI is asking for from people who were there, runners, family members. They're going to both go on simultaneously, one at Quantico and one, obviously, either here or in D.C.

But they're putting tremendous emphasis on who saw what here.

COOPER: Right.

KAYYEM: And I think that's because there probably are gaps in timing in terms of the photographs that they have. They're trying to figure out, were there people here? They probably believe that the perpetrator or perpetrators were here on-site and put the packages down. So someone's got to have pictures, and they're just hoping someone comes forward.

COOPER: The fact that they're still asking for the public's help...

KAYYEM: Right. Means there's a gap, and or they want as much information as possible, and then it's just going to take days and weeks and months. And that's the one thing to say to people watching, that this is not going to happen in, you know, TV time. This is -- may be very slow, methodical.

You heard almost all the political leadership say today, you know, this is not -- this may not be tomorrow. It might not even be Friday. This is going to take a long time, but eventually, there will be an arrest. Because it's not just investigation. They're building a criminal case as well that they've got to put in a U.S. court, and that has to be very, very clean.

COOPER: All right. John, what are you hearing from your sources?

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Given the chaos of the scene, the power of these explosions and all the people running around frantically. They have stuff kicked around after the debris. They think they've done a remarkable job of piecing together, getting the pieces of the pressure cooker, fragments from the bag. They think, from a forensics standpoint in finding out what happened, how this was done, they think they've done a pretty good job.

But to Juliette's point, you know, in a technical, investigative term, human intelligence, layman's term, a tip. They're looking for help. They've looked at the video. They're not done yet. But in the frantic search so far through the video, they have a pretty good idea of the timing, of how -- where the devices were, but nothing yet that they've seen in the imagery that has a placement. The who part is the big missing question here.

And so now it's off to Quantico, everything they've recovered, and they're still looking at that site, right over there. It's still in lockdown to see if they can find more. Is there a fingerprint, any kind of personal identifier, a DNA sample, something that gives away? And if that doesn't work, you look at serial numbers, you look at brand names. You try to essentially, you know, just retrace where this product came from, who might have sold it, and if you can get there, to whom?

COOPER: Tom Fuentes, you were involved in the Olympic Park bombing in that investigation down in Atlanta. In terms of that timeline, can you kind of walk us through the steps in that investigation which might give kind of a sense of the timeline on this investigation? Obviously very different, but how long, how methodical an investigation is it? How long does it take? TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it was a little bit quicker putting the device information together.

The night of the bombing, I was on duty. I was the assistant commander that evening, and the bomb went off about 1:10 or 1:15 a.m., and we got the phone call about 30 seconds later that we had the bombing. We could see it on one of the screens in the command post. Put it up on the bigger screen.

And we knew because an individual, in fact, Richard Jewell, working as a security guard for that pavilion, had reported to a Georgia Bureau of Investigation officer and an FBI agent that he knew walking by that there was a suspicious green knapsack under a park bench. So they went over. They looked under the flap, and they saw what appeared to be the pipe bomb, the wires and a plastic food storage container containing nails.

So the two law-enforcement officers immediately moved the crowd down the hill, and as they were getting the crowd out of the way and further down below, the device detonated, killing one woman, and then later a journalist had a heart attack running to the scene.

But the fact that a trained -- two trained bomb techs actually saw a look at that device under the lid of the knapsack and immediately went to work to get the people out of harm's way gave them a great indication of how it was set up, how it was put together even before it exploded. So that was huge.

And the FBI was able to trace later, but it took months to track down the roofing nails that were used, because they were able to determine what company made those nails. And then because of a unique glitch in the company's equipment, there was a batch made that had a slight deformity that made that unique. They were able to match those nails to a particular batch sold at a particular time and place prior to the bombing.

So these investigations, even that investigation with all of that advanced information took weeks and months to put all that information together.

COOPER: Are you optimistic, Juliette?

KAYYEM: I don't think in those terms.

COOPER: Yes.

KAYYEM: I've been in government too long. You get lucky and you combine facts. And I think people, you know, who don't work in this field have to just recognize that it's -- you know, a lot of times it is luck. A lot of times it's putting the pieces together, but it's not perfect. A lot of people say, how could this happen? There's one safe marathon, and that's no marathon at all. Right? We live in a very porous society. We live in a society where people like to move around. They like to go to events.

And so I'm optimistic that we'll put a lot of the pieces together, and I'm also optimistic that this will be a serious investment of time and money. If it leads to the right person any time soon, someone may know, but it's certainly not us on the outside.

COOPER: Juliette, I appreciate you being with us. John King, as well. Tom Fuentes.

We've been talking about it all, how Boston is a city shaken by what's happened, but also a city that is staying strong, standing tall, moving forward.

Today President Obama repeated his promise to bring the killers to justice. He also said the people of Boston are proof that Americans will prevail. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people refuse to be terrorized. Because what the world saw yesterday, the aftermath of the explosions, were stories of heroism, and kindness, and generosity and love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I looked down and there was actually a person who was bleeding on -- on the street. They were right off of the sidewalk just laying down. Luckily this restaurant was helping them, and it was great to actually see people teaming up together to help the people that were in need.

OBAMA: Exhausted runners who kept running to the nearest hospital to give blood, and those who stayed to tend to the wounded, some tearing off their own clothes to make tourniquets.

The first responders who ran into the chaos to save lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see on the video now all these guys jumping all those -- jumping over fences trying to help out. People activated immediately, whether they were volunteers or the Boston police.

OBAMA: The men and women who are still treating the wounded at some of the best hospitals in the world. And the medical students who hurried to help saying, "When we heard, we all came in."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that I would be one of the first people there, because I was 25 yards away from the finish line when the bombs went off, and by the time I got there, there were so many first responders and volunteer physicians, it was -- I've never seen anything like that.

OBAMA: The police who opened their churches and ministered to the hurt and the fearful, and the good people of Boston who opened their homes to the victims of this attack and those shaken by it.

So if you want to know who we are, what America is, how we respond to evil, that's it. Selflessly, compassionately, unafraid.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back. As I said at the top of this broadcast, this is a city which is bruised but certainly not broken. It never will be broken. It's a city that continues to stand tall and move forward.

President Obama will be here on Thursday to honor the lives that were lost and to honor all the efforts of the many heroes who we saw standing up after the explosions to try to save more lives and who did save lives.

Our coverage continues. This does it for this edition of 360. Thanks very much for watching. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.