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Searching for Clues in Boston Bombing; Remembering Those Who Died; Some Analysts Believe Boston Bombing Possibly Act of Domestic Terrorism

Aired April 16, 2013 - 21:00   ET


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Tonight, heroes, hope, and the big two questions. Who did it and why?

Stories of courage and loss from the Boston bombing, the city and the nation remembers the victims and searches for answers.

I'll talk to grieving friends of 8-year-old Martin Richard and to the bride and groom who escaped the marathon with their lives and said "I do" right afterwards.

Now the latest on the investigation. Here's what we know. A photo taken by a member of the public before the twin blasts shows a light-colored bag on the sidewalk next to a mailbox, pretty close to the point of detonation. A second photo shows the scene immediately afterwards. The FBI is examining the two photographs, they say they believe the bombs were in a dark-colored bag or backpack.

Federal law enforcement sources tell CNN the devices were inside pressure cookers and they believe BBs and nails were part of the explosives.

It's important to know that so far nobody has claimed responsibility. The toll of injured up to 183, three more have died, including 8-year-old Martin Richard and 29-year-old Krystle Campbell. The third victim, a Chinese citizen, has not yet been publicly identified.

President Obama will travel to Boston on Thursday to speak in an inter-faith service dedicated to the memory of all those who were killed and injured in the bombings.

Now I want to go to Chris Cuomo who's live for us in Boston.

Chris, it just seems here we are 24 hours or more later and nobody seems to have a real clue who has done this or why.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: But that shouldn't be surprising, Piers. These investigations take a very long time to develop, especially starting with being so multi-factorial, no group claiming responsibility. So much ground to canvas, this is going to be a difficult investigation. I think it's good news that the authorities said in their presser that they're in no rush. You know, very often, as we both know, haste makes waste when it comes to an investigation. This will take time. It's about getting it right.

MORGAN: That is true. But I would imagine there'll be some people in Boston who will be concerned for their safety. That the person -- the perpetrator of this atrocity is still at large.

CUOMO: That's absolutely true. At least that's what they believe at this time, Piers. But what is also true is that there has never been as large a military and police presence in this city as there is right now. In the presser, they asked for patience, they're going to try to collapse the zone that they are keeping closed right now. As small as they can. So normal life can go on. But there is a huge security presence here. You have all the federal agencies involved. This should be the safest city in the world right now.

MORGAN: It seems miraculous, Chris, that you and I have seen many very, very gruesome pictures that have not been seen by the majority of the public. It seems miraculous to me that the death toll is only still at three people.



CUOMO: It's also miraculous that our tent didn't just fly away.


Yes, I know, it's OK. The tent was going there. If I take off all of a sudden, just call my wife, tell them we're OK.

I think that it is a very good sign about the humanity involved in this situation that those photos haven't popped out more than they have. They're out there. If you want to go out, if you want to ghoulish and see exactly what happens when this type of blow, explosive bomb with shrapnel goes off, you can see it. We've seen it. We've seen too much of it here.

I think it's a good sign about the humanity involved that they're not more in circulation than they are right now. But I will tell you this. And it's a little debatable for us in this business. I think if you had seen those photos, it would give you a different recognition of what's at stake in these situations and would give you such a respect for what happened on the ground here, Piers.

The triage that was at play, people coming forward was so extraordinary that I can't believe we have so many injured and such a low death toll. Thank God we do. Three people, one is too many. But if you've seen the photos, you'd see what amazing things have been done here.

MORGAN: Yes, and the point I was making, Chris, when your roof caved in was just that it does seem a complete miracle and probably a testament to the brilliance of the first responders and the speed of which they moved and indeed all the medics involved in this that the death toll remained so low. Because the injuries were so appalling to so many others.

CUOMO: Absolutely accurate, Piers. And I'll tell you, it's one facet of a story that keeps giving us extraordinary detail. For example, we know now the three people who were lost in this, whose lives are gone. Hopefully there are no more. Those people who are still struggling for their lives in the hospital. One of them, Krystle Campbell, 29 years old, loved by the people at her restaurant. Young life in front of her.

We sat down with her grandmother to find out who she was as opposed to just how she was defined by how she died. And we sat down with her grandmother and her grandmother told us that she was her favorite and explained why she knows that her Krystle is an angel. Take a look.


CUOMO: What do you think when you see this photo?


CUOMO: What was she like in high school?

CAMPBELL: Smiling all the time. All the time she smiled. No matter what happened, she'd come out with a smile. I used to dress her up. I used to love to dress her up and put her hair in long curls and lots of bows on her hair. She loved it. She'd go out prancing, proud as anything to school. And then in school the teachers would say, oh, Krystle, you look so beautiful. Who did your hair? My nanna did my hair.


CUOMO: You had a special bond from when she was little.

CAMPBELL: Oh, gosh, yes.

CUOMO: How did Krystle make you feel?

CAMPBELL: Oh, full heart, my whole heart and soul. She was in. And she made me feel that way. She made me happy. I used to look forward to her coming over to see me.

CUOMO: And as she grew up, she didn't change. She still came.

CAMPBELL: She still came.

CUOMO: She still was with you.

CAMPBELL: And she still made me feel the same way, happy.

CUOMO: What kind of young woman did she become? CAMPBELL: Smart. Ambitious and loving. She wanted -- she never complained what she wanted. I've talked about it that much. She just used to say, well, just take one day at a time, Nanna, see what happens.

CUOMO: She just took life as it came.

CAMPBELL: She loved life.

CUOMO: Lots of friends?

CAMPBELL: Oh, lots of friends. Lots of friends. Her disposition, her attitude and her bubbliness. She was so bubbly all the time and laughing.

BERMAN: When she got a little older, there was a time when you got a little sick and she was there for you.

CAMPBELL: Yes. Definitely.

CUOMO: Tell me about it.

CAMPBELL: When I'd come home from the hospital, she come over one day and she said, Nanna, I think maybe I want to move in with you. So I said, why? She says, well, I just figured that you should have somebody here with you to stay with you to make sure you're OK. I said you really want to do that, Krystle? You know, your whole life is ahead of you. She says, well, I can -- I'll make it. I'll arrange it so that I'll be here with you.

CUOMO: What did that mean to you?

CAMPBELL: Oh, everything. Everything. It did me so well because I felt good and I felt comfortable and safe with her in the house with me.

CUOMO: Solidified her as number one, too, right? That was it after that. Everybody else was in a race for second.

CAMPBELL: Exactly.

CUOMO: What do you think when you see her on the TV?


CUOMO: What do you think when you see her there?

CAMPBELL: I wish I could go up and grab her and kiss her. I can still feel her.

CUOMO: How do you make sense of this?

CAMPBELL: I don't. I don't have -- made any sense of it at all. I can't believe it happened. I can't believe it. I won't even accept it now and I'm sitting here with you. I'm having a hard time when I see her on the TV. It's killing me inside. CUOMO: It's not real?


CUOMO: You can't believe something that something like this would happen to someone you love?

CAMPBELL: No. That's the farthest thing from my mind.

CUOMO: How are you going to remember Krystle? How do you want to remember her? What do you want --

CAMPBELL: With love. All my love will be there forever. My heart. She's in my heart. Always is. All of them. That's my Krystle and she'll always be my Krystle. I love her. I love her so much. I love all of them. But she's my special one.


CUOMO: Breaks your heart. She just went to the marathon to have fun like she did every year. But Grandma Wilma wanted to talk. She wanted Krystle to be defined by more than just her death.

So we have here, Piers, an 8-year-old little boy, could be anybody's son, a student, a graduate student, and Krystle, 29 years old, a young woman with everything to look forward to.

These stories are important because they remind us to connect to who was lost, to understand what it means to value the people that are no more after these situations. And we really do thank that special grandma for sitting down with us, Piers.

MORGAN: Yes, it was an extraordinarily moving interview, Chris. I detect a real spirit, too, amongst the people of Boston. Been watching you throughout the day along with many other CNN correspondents and anchors. And it's just very, very inspiring to see the way they're responding to this.

This could crush a city in different circumstances. But Boston seems to be rallying very, very hard here.

CUOMO: Oh, demonstrably so. We know what happened that day, we know how people stepped up. We see how they're staying here in the city, going past the sensitive areas, laying flowers, consoling each other. Telling us, the Bostonians, saying they picked the wrong city, pal, they picked the wrong city. They're tough and they have heart and it's going to get them through a very difficult situation.

MORGAN: Certainly true. And, Chris, for now, thank you very much, indeed.

One of the most heartbreaking stories to come out of this tragedy, the death of 8-year-old Martin Richard. Here he is in the photo taken last year holding a sign that reads "No more hurting people, peace." Martin's mother and 6-year-old sister were seriously injured in the blast. And joining me now is Caitlin Doyle, the Richard family's babysitter.

Caitlin, an absolutely appalling thing to have happened to this family that you've known very well for a number of years. You've babysat for the Richard family for the last three years. And what do you know about the condition, first of all, of poor Martin's mother and his sister?

CAITLIN DOYLE, RICHARD FAMILY BABYSITTER: Martin was a great kid. He was very well rounded. Every time I babysat, it was my pleasure to babysit him. His sister is also a pleasure to babysit. She's adorable and they're great kids and it's such a tragedy. And their mom is a great lady, too. Also the father, Bill, he's a wonderful guy.

They're just so polite and nice, and it's such a sad tragedy that it had to happen to that family. But everybody is coping as the best they can and we're doing all that we can do as a community. So everyone -- everyone is contributing to the community and doing whatever they can do to just help them and be helpful to the family at this time of need.

MORGAN: Martin seems to have been a really bright, cheerful little boy with his whole life ahead of him. Tell me more about the kind of boy that he was.

DOYLE: Yes, every time I babysat him, as soon as I walked through the door, he came running towards me. And he just had a bright smile that nobody could ever forget. It was just -- he was never sad or down, he was always happy and cheerful and ready to go. He was just all around a wonderful kid. And it's really unfortunate that it had to happen to him at such a young age.

MORGAN: I know that your family knows the Richard family well. Obviously there are lots of concerns about Martin's mother Denise as she suffered a severe brain injury, we believe, and also for his sister Jane who we think has lost a leg and has serious injuries to her second leg.

Do you know any more about their condition?

DOYLE: I haven't heard. I've been waiting for a reply from certain people. But I haven't gotten anything other than what you guys have been told. But as of right now, what you just said, what you just stated was correct. But I haven't heard any new news on it. So I'm just hoping that they're doing well as of right now.

MORGAN: Caitlin, how did you hear about what had happened?

DOYLE: I had seen from another good friend of mine that she had called me and told me. And I just knew right then when I'd heard that it was somebody from Dorchester, and then I had heard their names, I just knew instantly that it was them. And my heart just broke because as soon as I heard it there was -- you just -- your emotions were just -- they came running through you and I just -- I just lost it. It was really difficult to deal with. Especially right when I had heard because I wasn't home. So I went home immediately and I just broke down. There's just no words to describe it. It's just so tragic.

MORGAN: They seem a very nice family all around, Caitlin. Is that your take on the Richard family?

DOYLE: Yes, the Richard family all around, from Denise to the father, Bill to Henry, Martin and Jane, they were always just so welcoming and kind, and I really enjoyed babysitting for them. They always left me with memories that I'll never forget and I can always just picture hearing his little laugh and smile. And it's something that you just -- you can't forget and you would never forget.

And I'm lucky that I've gotten to know them and I'm always going to be there for whatever they need me to be there for. So I'm hoping that we can help them all get through this as good as we can because they really could use everyone's support now. And I'm glad that everyone got to come together and just be there for them because it really means a lot to them, I'm sure.

MORGAN: You've just been at the vigil down there for the family and obviously for Martin in particular. What was the vigil like?

DOYLE: The vigil was amazing. Everybody had their candles lit and the priest had spoken. It was -- he said a really nice thing and he read from the bible. And it was just everyone was together and that's what I think makes a difference and is when your community comes together in such a tragic time. And that's really what the family needs at this time. And I think that if they know that all these people are behind them and are supporting them, it just makes it that much easier for them and that much -- it helps them just so much. I think they would really appreciate it.

It was just touching. I mean, I think that at times like this, it's good to get together and just all be together as one. There was not a dry eye in the park. It was just such a touching time. It had everybody either crying or speaking about it. But it's good to know that everyone is remembering him as the bright kid he was because he was an amazing kid.

MORGAN: Katelyn, thank you very much for joining me.

DOYLE: You are welcome.

MORGAN: When we come back, the very latest on the Boston bombing investigation and breaking news out of Washington. A ricin-laced envelope addressed to a senator. Is it part of a plot?


MORGAN: We're following another breaking story out of Washington and a disturbing one. An envelope that tested positive with the poison ricin was sent to the office of a U.S. senator. CNN chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash and HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks broke the story. And Dana joins me now. Dana, pretty serious, this. What do we know?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, we are told this is according to the Senate sergeant in arms, Terry Gainor, that the envelope did test positive today at the actual lab, Piers. So, they did some initial testing in the field at the offsite facility where this mail went. In fact, we have a live picture right there. But this is later today, they got a positive test at the actual lab. So, that's why they feel so confident at this point it was positive.

What we're also told is that the exterior markings on this envelope that were sent to Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi weren't really outwardly suspicious. It was postmarked from Memphis, Tennessee, but it did not have a return address. So, that is something that is definitely raising the suspicion and caution of Senate officials because they told senators in the briefing today, Piers -- reminded them, you've got to tell your employees to be very, very vigilant.

But also reminded them, this is the reason why they have offsite facilities now. Mail to the Capitol does not go to the Capitol complex. It first goes offsite for this very reason. The other precaution they are taking is they are going to close those postal facilities for two or three days while they investigate this.

MORGAN: Ricin is a pretty deadly poison, not quite as deadly as anthrax. I'll come to that in a moment. But is there any possible connection between this and what happened in Boston? Or has that already been ruled out?

BASH: That's a great question. At this point, law enforcement officials, Senate officials are saying they do not think there is a connection, and they're emphasizing that. That is just coincidence when it comes to timing. Obviously this is the very beginning. I'm told by a law enforcement official tonight they do not have anybody in custody that they're still very much an open investigation as to who sent this letter. They feel pretty confident there is no connection between this and what happened yesterday in Boston.

MORGAN: Dana Bash, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Congressman Adam Schiff now. He's with the intelligence committee. And John Negroponte. He's the former director of national intelligence. Welcome to you both, gentlemen.


MORGAN: Here we are more than a day later after this -- what was the worst terror attack on American mainland since 9/11, and we don't know much about who may have done this or any motive, do we? Let me start with you if I may, Ambassador Negroponte. What is your take on where this investigation may be going?

JOHN NEGROPONTE, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, I really do think we have to be patient and wait and see. It's too early to say. It certainly doesn't -- there aren't any markings or indications as of yet of any foreign involvement, although that's obviously something that everybody must be looking out for. But so far, we haven't seen any such indication.

MORGAN: Congressman Schiff, depending on who I've been watching or listening to or reading today, opinion wildly fluctuating in terms of speculative theories. Anything from an al Qaeda-related attack to a domestic homegrown attack. Have you got any inside-track intelligence whatsoever that would hint at either of those two strands?

SCHIFF: We had a initial briefing tonight by the director of the FBI as well as Secretary Napolitano and the director of the NSA. They were very tight-lipped and really didn't want to speculate. And Piers, I think you can understand why when the intelligence agency has got Benghazi wrong initially. They don't want to make that mistake again. So, they're being very careful.

There are a lot of indicators here that could point into different directions. The simultaneous or near-simultaneous attacks is a hallmark of the overseas plots we've seen. At the same time, the rather unsophisticated nature of the explosive certainly could be the product of a homegrown terrorist or a self-radicalized person. So, it is very early to tell.

But I will say this, Piers: I'm optimistic that this won't be the kind of investigation that will linger for years like Atlanta. There is so much video footage, there's so much technological information to put together here. Someone has seen something, someone has captured something on film. And I'm hopeful that this won't be the kind of long, protracted investigation that we have sometimes seen in the past.

MORGAN: Ambassador, some people have been criticizing the fact that this can happen at such a hugely well-policed, high security situation like a massive city marathon in America. That this act can be perpetrated, and the person or persons that did it can apparently disappear into thin air. Is there any realistic criticism that should be leveled to anyone here?

NEGROPONTE: Well, I certainly wouldn't do that. After all, we're talking about a competition being carried out in a large public area. It's a big city. The route, after all, is 26 miles long. We all know that it's only when it comes to access to confined spaces that we can really control these kinds of situations.

And I would add that the response after the event has been absolutely magnificent. Your own reportage has been covering that in exhaustive detail. And we've got to hand it to the people who have done such a magnificent job in responding to this situation.

MORGAN: Yes, I completely concur with that. Congressman Schiff, in terms of where the FBI are with the investigation, they have even gone to lengths stopping people at the airport and asking them for video or pictures. Some say a sign of desperation, others say a sign of being incredibly methodical. Perhaps both. What is your view of that? SCHIFF: Well, I think it is -- I think it's very smart of them. And this might be part of the lessons learned after New York is you've got to cast a broad net. You have to think about where are your potential witnesses. Here's an event that drew people from around the country, indeed around the world. And before those people scatter to the four winds, you want to talk with them. You want to find out if have they seen something. You want to find out if they have footage that they can share. That's much easier to do now than it may be to try to chase them down later. So, very smart move, I think, and, you know.

And again, I agree with John completely. You're never going to be able to prevent particularly smaller attacks in large athletic events and other public gatherings. We're not going to be willing to sacrifice so much of our ability of freedom of movement and privacy in order to make that happen. But we should judge this by how well we're responding. And we are responding, I think, extraordinarily well just as you've been covering.

MORGAN: Congressman and ambassador, thank you both very much, indeed.

NEGROPONTE: Thank you.

MORGAN: Coming up next, the profile of killer or killers. Is the Boston bomber or bombers homegrown terrorists or someone from abroad or a threat from overseas? The latest clues in the investigation coming up next.



RICHARD DESLAURIERS, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: The person who did this is someone's friend, neighbor, co-worker or relative. We are asking anyone who may have heard someone speak about the marathon or the date of April 15th in any way that indicated that he or she may target the event to call us. Someone knows who did this.


MORGAN: Someone probably does know who did this. The hope is that he or she will turn in the Boston bomber. Joining me are Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, Robert Baer, CNN contributor and former CIA operative and CNN national security analyst Fran Townsend. Welcome to you all.

Let's start from the premise that none of us know the answer to what we're about to discuss. But what I do want to do is explore the theories, because, Mark Potok, you're an expert in domestic extremism, Bob Baer an expert in foreign extremism, and Fran Townsend obviously an expert in national security. Between the three of you, I'm hoping we can at least get to a position of some clarity as to where we may be heading here with the investigation.

Let me start with you, Mark Potok. From everything that you've seen and read, do you see real signs that this is more likely to be some form of domestic extremist attack?

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Well, honestly, Piers, I'm not sure that we know that. There are some indicators that suggest it's conceivable that it was related to, in particular, this thing Patriots Day. Patriots Day is actually on April 19th. It's this Friday. But in Massachusetts, it's celebrated on Monday. It celebrates, of course, the American Revolutionary War, the first shots fired in Concord and Lexington.

But in the world I cover, it is really known for being the opening of the Revolutionary War, the beginning of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, a big raid in 1985 of a white supremacist compound in Arkansas, and then probably most importantly, the end of the debacle in Waco, where 80 people died in a fire, and two years later payback for the events in Waco, the bombing of the Oklahoma City Building in '95.

So, you know, that day is kind of an iconic date on the calendar. However, I've got to say, what the date that is important to these people is not the third Monday in April as is celebrated in Massachusetts, but the actual date of April 19th.

MORGAN: Bob Baer, you've done many covert operations with the CIA. From what you've seen and read, where is your head going with this?

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Well, there are a couple of observations I have, Piers. And one is the fact that there were two explosive devices used. They went off fairly reliably. That's not easy to do. I've made these improvised devices myself. I've watched instructors do it. It's difficult.

The timing devices -- inevitably one doesn't go off or there's a low order of explosives. So somebody knew what they were doing, at least had some practice. Two is --

MORGAN: Bob, I don't know if you can see these pictures, but we're actually showing new images of what the police and FBI believe are the devices or part of the devices that may have been used here. It's Atlanta station WGA. Can you see these pictures, Bob?

BAER: No, I can't see them. But I know it's a pressure cooker.

MORGAN: Right.

BAER: And pressure cookers are commonly used in the Middle East. In fact, in the '80s, the CIA trained the Afghans to use small stoves or pressure cookers against the Soviet Red Army. But that doesn't mean anything. You can get on the Internet and look this stuff up.

The timers, you can look it up. If a cell phone was used, you can look that up and see how to do it. The point is the actual practice. I really do believe somebody knew what they were doing on this. But number two, I'd like to say is the fact that nobody's claimed it tells me it isn't al Qaeda. This would be a huge break through for them, and they would say something at this point, make further threats. It's just in their M.O. They haven't done it so far. So if I were forced to make a vote, I would say it was domestic.

MORGAN: Fran Townsend, that is the way that a lot of people are beginning to think. Of course, we have to keep reminding everyone, nobody knows. What do you make of the way the investigation is unfurling here?

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Piers, what I would say is actually I think the answer is something a little bit in the middle of your -- Bob Baer and Mark, what they're saying to you. I think what we're most likely seeing is a domestic, a home grown lone wolf or a small group who are inspired by Jihadist. It's on these Jihadi website, the "Inspire" magazine, that's the al Qaeda publication, where you find a lot of the information Bob was talking about in terms of building these kinds of devices and targeting large groups and multiple simultaneous attacks like we saw at the finish of the Boston Marathon.

And so it may be, as we say, a little bit of both, right. It may be a domestic incident in the sense it's home grown. But it's link may be its inspiration, sort of like Nadal Hassan, who was the Ft. Hood shooter.

MORGAN: Right. Mark Potok, if it is a domestic terror attack, is it more likely, from your experience, to be a lone wolf or part of an existing group?

POTOK: Well, I think in general, it's more likely to be a lone wolf. These kinds of things at least on the radical right, the non- Islamic radical right, they don't tend to be carried out in groups at all. I have got to say, I think there's something to what was just said, that it may be, in fact, a home grown radical, but perhaps of the Jihadist sort. And the reason I think of about that in that way is think about who the targets were. This was not a target that one would associate with a radical right-wing bomber. It was not a government building. It was not the IRS, although it was Tax Day on Monday.

It was not a minority group. It wasn't black people or Jewish people or gay people or Muslims. In fact, the only thing really that the victims, that the targets shared in common, it seems to me, is they were Americans. So that does suggest a broader kind of attack and perhaps one that's not linked to the world that we cover.

MORGAN: Bob Baer, of course one of the three dead has been identified now as a Chinese citizens. So this is not just an attack on America and Americans, but a global attack in that sense. What would be the repercussions if, for argument's sake, it does turn out to be some sort of al Qaeda related attack in terms of the impact on countries like China who have been affected?

BAER: Well, the Chinese have been the victims of al Qaeda in the weaker part of the country. And if you take the tact that it was al Qaeda, remember that all they care about is causing mass casualties, as many as they can. They do believe that that will stop occupation of the Middle East. While we're more guilty than the Chinese, the Chinese are nonetheless guilty of oppressing Muslims. If it were a radical Islamic group, it's not going to matter to them. The point is to attack the west until it picks up and leaves the Middle East. And this ideology, you can also pick up on the Internet and it can be turned against us at any moment. And remember, there is no play book for al Qaeda. A lot of these bombings in London, the airplane bombings, it was young kids who just decided that's what they were going to do.

To go back on what I said about no claim, well, there is no set standard for an attack like this. And we're really not going to know until they get the forensics, until they get a picture. You know, we're so far away from a solution on this.

MORGAN: Yeah, we are. And just keep stressing that nobody knows the answers to these questions, pure theorizing. But it is, of course, what everyone in America is talking about.

Fran, finally and quickly, does the fact that al Qaeda haven't claimed any responsibility or none of their affiliate groups claimed responsibility, is that significant? Or I think from memory, they have in the past sometimes waited several months before doing that. So that may not be particularly relevant.

TOWNSEND: That's right, Piers. Sometimes they wait. They'll release a sort of martyr -- what they call a martyr's video. That is someone who is responsible or killed in the attack, pretaped the video that they released much later. Or it's more difficult for them to communicate, so Ayman al Zawahiri, the head of al Qaeda, might release a video many months later when he can get it out, claiming responsibility.

I think Bob's right. Typically if it's al Qaeda related, you'd see a claim of responsibility. But to your point, it may take some time.

MORGAN: Thank you all very much, Mark Potok, Bob Baer and Fran Townsend. Thank you. Coming up, the scene of the horror. I'll talk to eyewitnesses to the bombing and a hero who raced to save the victims.





MORGAN: The Yankees paying tribute just a short time ago to the victims in Boston by playing "Sweet Caroline," the traditional sing along at Boston's Fenway Park. And in Cleveland, where the Red Sox played the Indians today, a moment of silence for those killed and injured in the bombings.

Tonight, we have incredible stories of survival and heroism. With me now are John Cullen, a columnist with the "Boston Globe," and John Mixon, who helped rescue injured bystanders. Welcome to you both.

Kevin Cullen, you wrote a very moving piece today in which you said we lost our innocence on another perfect day in September 12 years ago, but we lost something Monday too, and that is the idea that we'll ever feel totally safe in this city again. Is that, do you think, how most people in Boston feel today?

KEVIN CULLEN, "BOSTON GLOBE": Well, Piers, I think that when I wrote that, I probably was a little more despondent than I should've been. But I was sad yesterday, I'm angry today. And I got that sense from the city today talking to people. We will never be the same. It's just that New York was -- will never be the same after 9/11.

But that doesn't mean that whoever did this has won, that whoever did this has cowed us, because this is a very tough town. We take only three things seriously here and that's sports, politics and revenge. And I think it's going to take a lot more than what was done yesterday to knock a town like Boston out.

And I really sense that across the city today, that people were angry and that people were absolutely determined. You know, I was in Oma (ph) in Northern Ireland in 1998 three hours after that bomb went off. And I was in London within eight hours after the 7/7 bombings. And what I experienced in Oma and London after those atrocities, I experienced today in my hometown.

And it was a deep sadness followed by a resoluteness that these people will not get to us. We will not let them win. And I will predict, Piers, next year, we will have the biggest Boston Marathon ever. They'll have to turn people away. People will come from all over the world, as they always do. But they will come in greater numbers next year because we need to show whoever did this they did not win one thing.

MORGAN: I totally endorse those words. John Mixon, you were with your friend Carlos Erin Dondo (ph). People have seen lots of images particularly of Carlos and his cowboy hat performing great acts of heroic courage, helping people, as did you. You were standing in the first row of the bleachers when the first bomb went off. What was your immediate reaction? And the reason I'm so interested is you're a Vietnam veteran. You've been in war zones.

JOHN MIXON, ORGANIZER, "RUN FOR THE FALLEN" IN MAINE: I just immediately thought it was a terrorist attack. I kind of lost my balance on the step and my immediate thought was my daughter was heading down to meet us down there. And I quickly grabbed the phone to call her. And then there was such confusion that I actually jumped over the fence and I saw Carlos. And he kind of blessed himself and pointed across the street and we both ran over there.

I was starting to rip the fence down and Carlos didn't wait for us to rip the fence down. He scaled over the fence and over the scaffolding and started to attend to some of the victims. I knew I didn't have any first aid training so there was really -- it was only -- I was trying to remove the fence and didn't know what I was really going to do after that. To something that you just added that Mr. Cullen just said, I ran the New York City Marathon two months after 9/11 with the Boston Marathon race director, with David McGillrey (ph). And he's right, there was a huge turnout even though it was only two months right after 9/11.

MORGAN: It is. I mean, Kevin, it does change everything. But out of terrible incidents like this, as you hinted at, you can have a renewed strength and a renewed sense of spirit that comes through cities like Boston. And I'm already detecting that, I have to say. From all of the people that you've talked to, what is the feeling you're beginning to pick up now? Is it one of not just resolution, but determination not to be beaten?

CULLEN: Determination not to change our lifestyle, not to make -- not to give in to the intimidation that is at the heart of all terrorist acts. Terrorism is about creating fear and making you change the way you live. And we will not do that. I refuse to do it. The day after the 7/7 bombings, Piers, I rode the Tube. And today I walked throughout the Back Bay up and down. Obviously Boylston Street, that section was sealed off. But there were people doing the same thing.

There was one guy, a young guy playing a lovely alto sax. He was walking up and down Newbury Street playing "Over the Rainbow" and some great jazz standards. And that was the sort of attitude. It was like, the best way I could -- Boston gives -- we gave the middle finger to those guys, whoever they are. We're not going to change. We refuse to change.

MORGAN: Kevin Cullen and John Mixon, thank you both very much for joining me.

CULLEN: Thanks, Piers.

MORGAN: Coming up next, love conquers hate. I'll talk to a couple who were married shortly after running the Boston Marathon.


MORGAN: The horror in Boston changed lives and ended lives. In the face of evil, an extraordinary story of hope and love. And it's being told by Kelli Johnston and Robin Watling. They ran the marathon and they were determined to get married after the race. And that's exactly what they ended up doing. Kelly and Robert join me now live. Welcome to you both.

An extraordinarily uplifting story amid so much tragedy and despair. I know it was your plan to always get married after the marathon. But once you realized what had happened, did you have any second thoughts, any doubts that you should go through with it?

KELLI JOHNSTON, MARRIED AFTER BOSTON MARATHON: Well, we were not going to cancel our wedding, but we did think about possibly postponing it or coming up with alternative plans. We were hearing all sorts of things like they may evacuate downtown or Boston Commons may be closed. We had reservations for dinner after our ceremony. Would that place be open as well? So we did consider alternatives.

But in the end, we didn't want -- you know, if this is an act of terrorism, we did not want that to alter us. We were going to proceed one way or the other.

MORGAN: Robert, obviously when you realized the scale of what had happened, after horror and devastation everywhere, did that make you even more determined to go through this, as Kelli said, to make sure the terrorist didn't win?

ROBERT WATLING, MARRIED AFTER BOSTON MARATHON: Absolutely. Terrorists, their ultimate goal is to alter our way of life and to stop us from carrying out our normal activities. And I was even more determined when we figured out it was an act of terrorism that we were not going to be deterred from moving forward and proceeding with our wedding.

MORGAN: Kelli, you're both very active runners. And you both wore athletic gear to your wedding. And I know it's a big part of your lives. This was a clear assault on a way of life that so many athletes and amateur athletes up and down the country love. What do you make of the people or the person that did this?

JOHNSTON: Right now, you can't make sense of it. There are so many questions. Today has been filled with all sorts of emotions for us, from elation of what we accomplished yesterday, both with the race and of our wedding, but going to the opposite extreme with just such sorrow and grief for all the victims, and even the people that couldn't finish. You know, they -- everybody running the race yesterday put in a ton of work to get here. So to not be able to complete it would be frustrating for me as well. So it's in indescribable, really.


WATLING: It's an unimaginable act. I couldn't imagine what kind of monster would do something like this.

MORGAN: It is unimaginable. It is monstrous, but I think your story is a very touching, uplifting one. As I said, it's great that you stuck to your plans. You defied the terrorists. You weren't going to change your happy day at the end. And I think that everyone watching this will be delighted you didn't. That's exactly the right message to send. And I congratulate you both on becoming husband and wife. Well done.

JOHNSTON: Thank you.

WATLING: Thank you.

MORGAN: We'll be right back with more on the Boston bombing.


MORGAN: We'll be back at midnight with a live special PIERS MORGAN LIVE, with the very latest on the Boston bombings, including new photographs from WAGA, which a federal law enforcement source says show fragments of the deadly bomb. These pictures could be vital clues and we'll have more on those at midnight.

That's all for us now. Anderson Cooper starts now.