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Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Captured; Russian Intelligence Asked U.S. To Investigate Tamerlan Tsarnaev Two Years Ago; Lingzu Lu Remembered; Russia Trip Questioned; Six Midwest States Under Water; Economic Impact of Boston Shutdown

Aired April 21, 2013 - 16:59   ET


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We're learning much more today about Dzhokhar's brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who was killed early Friday in that shoot-out with police. He appears to have become increasingly radical in the last several years. CNN has learned that this video of a Chechen jihadist was once posted on his personal youtube channel. There are increasing questions about how the FBI handled its investigation of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The bureau interviewed him back in 2011 but didn't follow up after his six-month stay in Russia last year. The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee said today that Tsarnaev received training while he was in Russia. We will have much more on all of this, all of the investigation, everything you need to know straight ahead.

But right now we are privileged to have Boston police commissioner Ed Davis talk to us here on CNN.

Commissioner, first, thank you so much for what you are doing. We are very proud of your officers. And we understand Richard Donohue is in the hospital, held a press conference a short time ago. Of course, he was shot in the Thursday night firefight with the Tsarnaev brothers. How is he doing?

ED DAVIS, COMMISSIONER, BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: He was in very serious condition when he was brought into the hospital. I'm told that his condition is still very serious but he's improving. So, we are very hopeful in our prayers go out to him and the family.

LEMON: First off, I want to talk about the suspect, the 19-year- old in the boat. There are reports that he's injured in the throat, cannot speak and there are also reports that he may have tried to take his own life and thus the injuries to his throat. What do you know about that?

DAVIS: This is a very complex investigation. And it is hard to say exactly how he received that injury. There was certainly a shoot- out in Watertown. There were explosives thrown. So, that's being looked into right now. It is hard to say exactly how it occurred.

LEMON: From the evidence you have gathered at the scene we have heard a number of reports, and even from police, saying that there were explosives being thrown out of the car. Even on the scene when I was in Watertown the other day, they said had he long rifles, that the media should be safe. How much ammunition and what other weapons did he have on him when you got him at the scene?

DAVIS: The teams that are picking up evidence there have collected over 200 rounds of ammunition that had been expended. We don't know how many of those were from the suspects and how many were from police. We are clearly looking at explosives that were thrown. And I personally saw the remnants of exploded bombs as well as unexploded ordinance that was on the ground that we were stepping over actually while we were responding to the scene. So, that was a very dangerous situation for everybody involved. And right now, it is all part of the ongoing investigation.

LEMON: And these devices that could have gone off as the officers were doing their investigation?

DAVIS: That's what we were afraid of, correct.

LEMON: Also, in their apartment, there were devices found as well. What did you find in the apartment?

DAVIS: I can't comment on what was found in the apartment. That's part of the investigation. I hate to say that but this is a very active investigation and it is still happening as we speak. So, it would be ill-advised for me to talk about it directly.

LEMON: We have eyewitnesses that have been on CNN and saying that the brother ran over -- the younger brother over his older brother and actually may be responsible for killing his brother at the scene in Watertown that night.

DAVIS: Well, my understanding is his brother was run over and the other brother was driving the car when that happened. I don't know what the cause of death was and we won't know that until the medical examiner rules.

LEMON: OK. Can you take us back to that night starting off what happened with their surveillance video at the convenience store, take us back through what happened that evening?

DAVIS: Sure. That surveillance video was very important to the investigation. It was the first real clear cut picture we had of the suspects, not only showing what they looked like as far as their physical description, but also what they were wearing that night. We wanted to get that out to the public as soon as possible. But, we sent that out immediately. And just not too long afterward the Watertown officer spotted the vehicle and began to follow it. He got behind it. When the two suspects saw he was behind them, they alighted from the vehicle and began to fire arm.

LEMON: Begin to fire arm. At what point did the MIT officer come into it?

DAVIS: That was earlier in the evening. The MIT officer was killed earlier, a couple of hours earlier, or more than that. But his death led to them attempting to flee and committing a hijacking. And ultimately, that hijacking led us to the vehicle.

LEMON: As they're going through Cambridge to Watertown, they are going IEDs or explosive devices out of the vehicle.

DAVIS: They were explosive devices at the police, yes.

LEMON: And so then, at that point they were cornered?

DAVIS: Well, they weren't technically cornered. They aggressively alighted from the car. They stopped their vehicle. The officer had not put his lights on. There was no attempt to stop them at that time. The officer had been ordered to follow them until additional help got there. They were sending SWAT back-up. They just thought when the car and they attempted to get the officer.

LEMON: That's drives up to what the one of the witnesses told us that one of the suspect, he saw one of the suspect charged at police and then police took him down and was trying handcuffed him on the ground when the other brother floored the car, the vehicle, and then ran over his brother.

DAVIS: That's my understanding. That's the way it worked.

LEMON: So then after that, the other suspect has gone missing. There is a manhunt for him. You were looking everywhere. We saw your officers being buzzed in by the bus loads, tens of bus loads of officers coming in from Boston and from every tactical unit from all over the area. So he's out for a while. And then this neighbor who is smoking a cigarette goes out to his boat and then what happens?

DAVIS: He sees the boat cover had been ripped. So he went over to investigate that. And as he walked up to the boat, he realized there was blood on the cover. He grabbed the ladder. He pit over the side of the boat. And he told me that he saw a body inside the boat and he thought it was a dead body because it had blood on it. And then, all of the sudden the body moved. At that time, he retreated quickly and called 911.

LEMON: OK. So, he saw unmoved. But at no time, was their gun fire exchange. He never tried -- the suspect never tried to shoot the neighbor who was check on the boat.

DAVIS: As far as I know, that's correct.

LEMON: So then, police come. There's gunfire exchange. Is Tsarnaev in the boat shooting officer or do we know if he's trying to kill himself?

DAVIS: Again, we don't know. There's no reports of gunfire from the boat but there is an extensive ballistic investigation going on there and evidence investigation. And it will take some time to get that complete. We do know that there shots exchanged there. We do know that eventually the suspect stepped out of the boat.

LEMON: We saw -- there is a picture of him getting out of the boat. So, it appears that he was conscious at least at one point.

DAVIS: Correct.

LEMON: Did you or your officers or anyone ever get a chance to question him?

DAVIS: No, that didn't happen. We were represented at that time. There were three Boston police officers that initially surrounded the boat. Other officers came and assisted and we held that position until the FBI hostage rescue team could come into place. The HRT came in and they were in charge of that scene. And they got the guy out of the boat so extremely professional group, very, very good to work with. They did a fantastic job there.

LEMON: The decision to take him to deaconess, because there were reports he would be taken to a number of different hospitals. Does his injuries or it say anything as to why they took him to a particular -- that particular hospital, better security, better able to deal with trauma?

DAVIS: Well, there are decisions made by EMS on where to take any patient based upon what's happening in the emergency room at that time. We did have a concern about taking him to the Mount Arbor Hospital because the victim police officer was there. And so, that would have presented a major security concern for us. And I think that played a role in the decision. But they detoured not too far over to the BI.

LEMON: The decision not to read him his Miranda rights even though at one point you see him getting out of the boat, in that picture he is conscience. How did that decision come about?

DAVIS: Well, this is a federal case involving a terrorism situation and I was not aware that in the federal system there can be a removal or a discontinuation of Miranda rights in emergency situations. So that's exactly what happened.

The United States attorney's office advised us not to administer Miranda rights. We gave that information out to our officers and I think all law enforcement was operating under those rules of engagement.

LEMON: Back to the apartment real quickly. There were devices found in the apartment but you can't comment on what?

DAVIS: No, I didn't say that. I can't comment on any evidence that was found there.

LEMON: Anything that was found in the apartment. Are you confident that these two were acting alone and that there are no more suspects out there?

DAVIS: I'm confident that they were the two major actors in the violence that occurred. I am very, very sure that during this thorough investigation we'll get to the bottom of the whole plot. And that's all I can say right now.

I told the people of Boston that they can rest easily. The two people who were committing these vicious attacks are either dead or in custody and I still believe that.

LEMON: There were devices that were unexploded that were found at the original scene?

DAVIS: There were -- but, no. Which original scene?

LEMON: They found on the marathon route?


LEMON: There were no --

DAVIS: No. We cleared dozens of packages that had been dropped by people fleeing the scene. And so, everything was treated suspiciously. In a situation like this, bombers often target first responders so we were expecting another device. We handled that very, very carefully. The EOD teams did a tremendous job but there were no other devices found on the route.

LEMON: And you are confident that there were no other devices anywhere in the city? The people of Boston can rest easy about that?

DAVIS: Well, we are certainly looking at this point in time for any evidence that may be related to this case but we have no information that there are other explosive devices out there.

LEMON: My final question to you. What's your concern about there was a video found on his facebook page, on his social media page, that had to do with an extremist group overseas. What does that say to you, if anything?

DAVIS: Well, it certainly a major point in the investigation.

LEMON: Commissioner Ed Davis, thank you very much.

DAVIS: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

LEMON: Thank you.

And again, we are very proud of your officers and what you guys did.

DAVIS: I'm very proud of our officers, too. They did a very fantastic job.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

Coming up on CNN, we are going to talk about this one Republican lawmaker, the chairman of the house homeland security committee, says there's no way that these into two brothers were just home grown troublemakers. Texas congressman Michael McCaul tells CNN today he is convinced the seeds of the Boston terror attack were planted overseas.


REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: There were reports that they had suicide vests on. You don't wore that overnight. I personally believe that this man received training when he was over there and he radicalized from 2010 to the present. And then nine months after he comes back from the Chechen region, he pulls off the largest terror attack since 9/11.


LEMON: There's also lots of talk today about the way the FBI first handled the case of Tamerlan Tsarnaev and we have reported FBI agents interview Tsarnaev back in 2011 at the request of the Russian government. The Russians believed that he was a follower of radical Islam. He was also interviewed by but no action was taken and there was also no follow-up after his six-month trip to Russia last year.

Today on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," Senator Lindsey Graham said there were plenty of clues that Tsarnaev had been radicalized.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The ball was dropped in one of two ways. The FBI missed a lot of things is one potential answer, or our laws do not allow the FBI to follow up in a sound, solid way. There was a lot to be learned from this guy. He was on websites talking about killing Americans. He went overseas, as Chuck indicated. He was clearly talking about radical idea. He was visiting radical areas. Its people like this that you don't want to let out of your sight, and this was a mistake. I don't know if our laws are insufficient or the FBI failed, but we are at war with radical Islamists and we need to up our game.


LEMON: Defense secretary Chuck Hagel spoke about the bombings today while on a flight to Israel saying, the attack was criminal and every region of the world is not safe from these terrible acts.


CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I have not seen any intelligence that would make such a link, but as you know, all of the facts are not in. All of the dynamics and intelligence is not complete. And until we know that, until we get more pieces, we won't be able to answer some of those questions.


LEMON: And Hagel also said the Obama administration doesn't have enough information yet to decide whether the surviving 19-year-old Tsarnaev brother should be sent to the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror suspects.

We are learning much, much more about the suspects now from the Russian republic of Dagestan where their father now lives. And now, CNN can exclusively reveal alleged Boston bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older brother, had video of a jihadist on his You Tube channel.

And let's get to Nick Paton Walsh now. He joins us now by phone from Dagestan.

So nick, what do you know about this video? I just spoke with the police commissioner here in Boston. And he said this is a major development to him and it is going to be used in the investigation.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): I will tell you what you know. That the You Tube channel which Tamerlan Tsarnaev put up had a link to and had a section called terrorists and a link to a man named (INAUDIBLE).

Now, that link was broken. It was removed, taken down. We don't quite know when. But we have found the video that appeared to link to. I'm not sure the link a man called Azerbaijan. He was a militant from that particular region. The better known as being the real name, many say here, is (INAUDIBLE).

Now, he was killed back in December in a very violent firefight with Russian special forces here in an apartment block not far from where I'm standing here in (INAUDIBLE). We have seen video you that. I mean, intense firefight in which an armored personnel carrier was used to finish it off. He was accused all sorts of militant for particular region being the head of a group that kind of militants here now.

What we don't know is did Tamerlan and him ever meet. We have no confirmation of that at all. What we are asking of course now is why Tamerlan posted a video of this man on his You Tube channel. Of course, we should point out that this man (INAUDIBLE) lived in the same city as Tamerlan's father. But Tamerlan himself just as Iran Nazis. There are many questions, definitely Don.

LEMON: So Nick, can you talk to me about his time in Russia? What do you know about that?

WALSH: Very little, in truth. And true, very little indeed. We know that from 2001 to 2002, March, he was registered as school here. Their records show he went straight from Kirgizstan to that school straight off the United States. But, we also note from U.S. officials, he didn't show up in the U.S. until about 2006 on a green card. He may have been there on and off but he wasn't permanent there for a while. So questions about what he did from roughly from the age of being 15 and 20.

We have also got to look at what he did when he came back here last year for about six months. We know from a shop keeper who lives opposite his father's apartment that he was in that apartment around about a month in the summer but we don't know what he was doing for the other four to five months he was in Russia. We don't know where he was, what he was doing. So big questions there to nothing that conclusively links him to anything to do with extremism but certainly holes that need to be filling. We get again a real life there about what the most important of these alleged bombers.

LEMON: All right, Nick Paton Walsh.

Nick, thank you very much for your reporting.

Investigators have a lot of questions for the Boston bombing suspect who is still alive. They can't talk to him yet. He is still recovering in the hospital and he could be charged while he lies in his hospital bed.

Stay right here for more coverage from Boston.


LEMON: The surviving terror suspect, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has not yet been formally charge and is still not clear if he will be treated as a criminal or as an enemy of the United States. That's an important distinction. It is a really distinction.

U.S. senators on both sides of the aisle feel very strongly about one point.


GRAHAM: When the public safety exception expires and it will here soon, this man in my view should be designated as a potential enemy combatant and we should be allowed to question him for intelligence gathering purposes to find out about future attacks and terrorist organizations that may exist that he has knowledge of and that evidence cannot be used against him at trial. That evidence is used to protect us as a nation.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: One of the great things about America is that we come together at times of trial. I very much regret the fact that there are those that want to precipitate a debate over whether is he an enemy combatant or whether he is a terrorist, a murder, et cetera.


LEMON: And one lawmaker strongly against charging Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as an enemy combatant is Congressman Adam Schiff, a senior member of the House intelligence committee and a native of a Boston area. He joins me now from Los Angeles.

Thank you for joining us. I'm sure your heart is going out to your former -- your native city here.

So congressman, take us through this. Should he be tried as an enemy of the United States, an enemy combatant? Can he be prosecuted in that manner?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I don't think we have really seen any evidence yet that would support treating him as an enemy combatant. This is somebody who is a U.S. citizen, arrested on U.S. soil for acts committed on U.S. soil. Really, far appeal from the paradigm of an enemy combatant, as someone captured on an enemy battlefield fighting for foreign nation. We don't have any evidence he's part of an Al-Qaeda cell or been foreign directed here. It's possible that could materialize but I think it is very hasty tore calling for his treatment as an enemy combatant.

Moreover, we haven't had much success, frankly, in trying enemy combatants in our military commissions. The criminal courts have been much more successful in the expeditious prosecution of terrorists. So, this rush to want to proclaim him an enemy combatant and get embroiled in a system, frankly, that the Supreme Court has had problems with time after time, I think is a mistake.

LEMON: So representative, how then do you think he should be prosecuted, just as any other U.S. citizen in a civilian court?

SCHIFF: Well, I think what the administration and law enforcement have done thus far is they should be doing, and that is rely on this public safety exception to Miranda that allows them to get information that make sure the public is safe, to find out are there other co-conspirators, are there other, are there other bombs? And they should make use of that. I think the courts will liberally interpret that and allow them to do that.

Ultimately though, he will be Mirandized once arraigned and I think it is appropriate that that happen. It doesn't mean the end of cooperation. We have seen countless terrorism and other cases where the suspects will continue to talk even after being Mirandized.

But my expectation is that he will face federal charges. There will be terrorism charges. He may also face state charges. Some of those charges may carry the death penalty and I have every confidence that the justice department can prosecute this case successfully. And at the same time, that our intelligence agencies working with law enforcement can get good answers about who was involved, what were motivations, what happened on this trip, did the FBI or department of homeland security miss evidence that they shouldn't have missed when they went out and interviewed him.

LEMON: I have to ask you quickly before I let you go. Do you think that this whole enemy combatant issue has become politicized?

SCHIFF: Well, I don't know whether this has been politicized or not but I don't really understand the rush to want to label him this way. There has been a debate between the parties on the use of the enemy combatant law, on the use of military commission, but I would hate to see that injected right after a national tragedy. We ought to look at this on the facts, follow the facts where they lead us. And right now, I don't see the facts leading us in the direction of enemy combatant status and I think the administration is right to resist those hasty calls.

LEMON: All right, Representative Adam Schiff, thank you very much, representative.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Coming up, we are going to have much, much more on the developing story here in Boston.

Plus, another community dealing with tragedy today. Victims of that deadly fertilizer plant explosion are being laid to rest. We are going to check in on the church services.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: A second wave of people who live near the site of the massive explosion at a fertilizer plant in the town of West, Texas were allowed to return home today. Residents who were lucky enough to still have homes began returning yesterday. Wednesday's explosion flattened the north side of the small farming town heavily damaging a nursing home, schools and neighborhoods.

New evidence in the investigation is now surfacing and CNN's Miguel Marquez has that -- Miguel?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, for the first time we are hearing the 911 tapes from this terrible tragedy in West. A couple of clips we want to play for you give you a sense of just how horrific the scene was that night.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: There was -- our house, all the windows, (INAUDIBLE) of the house are completely blown in. The walls, part of it blown off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DISPATCHER: OK, calm down. Take a deep breath, OK. We were aware of the situation. We are getting help out there as fast as we can, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Listen to me. My ambulance station just completely exploded. I have a nursing home and an ambulance station, (INAUDIBLE) I need as many east Texas trucks as you can assume this way.


MARQUEZ: And out of that terrible tragedy, that explosion and fire and the 14 who perished in it, this town is starting to struggle to its feet today, Don. First church services held. The bishop of Boston came up to west today to deliver the mass in the Pews. In that service, there was one man that seemed to capture the sense of grief of this town. This is a guy who was literally inconsolable during the mass. Had a very hard time getting through it. We tried to speak to him but he had to be ushered out and literally could not talk to anybody. He was very, very hard to watch but it does give you a sense of just how hard people here are taking it.

We are also seeing some new pictures of the devastated site. Investigators saying they have located the exact spot where the explosion occurred. They will be going in there to try to figure out what exactly caused it to explode. They say at the moment it is just a big hole in the ground essentially.

There is an apartment building where two bodies were recovered from. That was the most heavily damaged building next to the fertilizer plant. And then, there was a nursing facility as well for the elderly that was nearby as well.

Amazingly, nobody was killed or injured badly in the nursing facility. They were able to evacuate people to the side of the building that wasn't so badly damaged. Then eventually get them out of the area all together -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Miguel, thank you very much for that report.

And back here in Boston, we are learning more from families, the families of the victims killed in the Boston bombings and learning more about the victims' lives.

The latest right after this.


LEMON: Want to get you up to date now on the Boston bombings investigation. The Justice Department says no charges will be filed today against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the Boston marathon attacks. When the charges come, a Justice Department official says, Tsarnaev could be charged with both federal terrorism charges and state murder charges.

We continue to learn more about Tsarnaev's brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who died in Friday shootout with police. Last year he created a YouTube channel with links to videos by Chechen radicals like the one seen here.

Earlier today worshippers at New England's largest Catholic Church gathered to remember those lost at the Boston marathon and its violent aftermath. Four large photos of the people killed were prominently displayed behind four lit candles.

We're hearing from families of victims killed in the Boston bombings and learning more about the victims' lives. The family of the youngest victim of the Boston bombings is celebrating the work of a law enforcement officer. Eight-year-old Martin Richard was killed Monday while watching the marathon.

His family released this statement, and it read in part, "Our family applauds the entire law enforcement community for a job well done and trust that our justice system will now do its job. Our community is once again safe from these two men. None of this will bring our beloved Martin back or reverse the injuries these men inflicted on our family and nearly 200 others. We continue to pray for healing and for comfort on the long road that lies ahead for every victim and their loved ones."

Krystle Campbell was killed just weeks before her 30th birthday. Her brother says he's glad the manhunt is over but the suspect's capture does not change the painful fact that his vivacious sister is gone forever. William Campbell III told "The Boston Globe" this, he says, "I'm happy that nobody else is going to get hurt by these guys but it is not going to bring her back."

And the third person killed in the bombings, Lingzu Lu, had come to Boston just last fall. Friends say she was kind and relished the opportunity to come to America from her native China. And CNN's Pamela Brown takes a closer look at who she was and her life that was cut all too short.


PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her sweet smile, bubbly personality, eagerness to help others. Just some of the ways those that knew 23-year-old Lingzu Lu described her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really sweet, really quiet. Always help me to answer question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her smile was really shy. We all loved her.

BROWN: After starting as a Boston University grad Lu quickly became a well-known figure in the School of Mathematics and Statistics where she was studying.

PROF. ERIC POLACHECK, BOSTON UNIVERSITY: I admitted her, I recruited her, I welcomed her, I advised her and I taught her. So I interacted with her on so many different levels.

BROWN: Her professor Eric Polacheck said she was an excellent student who had big dreams to study in the U.S. so she could go back to China as a business woman.

(On camera): How hard is that to know what a bright future she had and that's been taken away from her?

POLACHECK: I can't say how hard it is. I mean it's completely senseless. It's -- there's no rhyme or reason to it. It's such a waste. It's such a waste of all the time and energy and dreams that she had and we'll never know what she could have done.

BROWN (voice-over): Dreams cut short Monday on what was supposed to be a day of fun watching the Boston marathon with two friends. She was standing at the finish line when the bombs went off. Her roommate posted this message saying, "She's still not home yet and I can't contact her. Everyone is worried." That post sparked a global social media search.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone's like reposting the status and trying to help her roommate to find her.

BROWN: One friend went to the hospital. Her other friend unharmed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of her friends who was with her that day went to get coffee at that moment.

BROWN (on camera): So her -- the third friend went to get coffee at the time the bombs went off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes. Exactly. And that's why she's still alive. BROWN (voice-over): Sadness Tuesday afternoon after word spread Lu was the third victim of the bombings. BU's close-knit Chinese community is feeling a loss of one of their own.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are really far away from home and we don't have parents or any relatives here. So I mean, for them, we are the familiar.

BROWN: Lu had just taken her final example and was one class away from graduating.

(On camera): And you're going to be grading her last example.

POLACHECK: Yes, indeed.

BROWN: How difficult will that be?

POLACHECK: Well, I'll do the same thing I always do, which is turn them all face down, grade them without looking who wrote it, because that's the only way to do it unbiased. But when I turn them back over and look at her name and look how she did, that will -- that will be a bit more tough.

BROWN (on camera): If Lu passed her final example as expected, the school may award her posthumously with her Master's Degree in Statistics. Meantime, we've learned that Lu's parents have obtained emergency visas and are expected to be here sometime this weekend.

Pamela Brown, CNN, Boston, Massachusetts.


LEMON: All right, Pamela, thanks so much.

Still unclear, the motive here. What's behind this horrible crime and -- get this -- the FBI was warned about one of the Tsarnaev brothers two years ago. The details next on that.


LEMON: The brother who was killed, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was on authorities' radar for a while. The FBI investigated Tsarnaev in 2011 at the request of the Russian government. So why didn't they follow up after Tsarnaev went to Russia for six months late last year, including an extended stay in the Chechen region?

New York Senator Chuck Schumer wants answers.


SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: There are a lot of question that had to be answered. This man was pointed out by a foreign government to be dangerous. He was interviewed by the FBI once. What did they find out, what did they miss? Then he went to Russia and to Chechnya. Why wasn't he interviewed when he came back?


LEMON: You know, also, House Homeland Security Chairman Michael McCaul says he believes the older brother received training during his trip.

I want to bring in security expert and former police officer, Lou Palumbo. Lou is in New York. And Also CNN's international security analyst Mr. Jim Walsh. He joins me here in Boston.


LEMON: A very -- everyone is asking me, is it that cold in Boston? And it is.

WALSH: You're clearly not a native New Englander.


Plus you picked a bad spot here.

LEMON: We're in a wind tunnel. So I'll ask you since we're here talking. Did the FBI drop the ball in interviewing the older Tsarnaev brother?

WALSH: Well, I mean at a very simple level, based just on the outcome you would have to say yes. He interviewed him and he went on to commit an act. But I don't think we have the full answer here yet. What was the process that they followed? You know, the FBI interviews a ton of folks every year. Only a fraction of which are actually dangerous. They interview me when I go to Iran and North Korea and come back.

But obviously either they -- he fell through the cracks or at the time that they were interviewing him they weren't giving him anything actionable to continue his case.

LEMON: But, Lou, you know, he did visit Russia, stayed there for six months. Do you feel the FBI dropped the ball?

LOU PALUMBO, DIRECTOR, ELITE INTELLIGENCE AND PROTECTION: I'm not going to rush to judgment on this. I think we're going to have hearings where Director Mueller and his immediate subordinates who have more knowledge of this topic will speak to this topic. I think that there obviously is lacking a mechanism to keep a database a bit more accurately of individuals that we have concern about, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And so you're giving -- you're giving solutions here. We need to do better, and meaning "we," the United States, needs to do better when interviewing people who may be going -- sorry, there's something just happened here. We need to do better.

WALSH: Yes, well, of course. And this is the nature of the game. It's an (INAUDIBLE) game. Something happens, you figure out what you did wrong, you improve your defenses, you improve your offense. And then the other side tries to game that. And unfortunately this is just one of the natural steps in that process. LEMON: Yes. There was a big bang behind us. I thought maybe a car had bumped into someone.

WALSH: Yes. You felt it. Yes. It was loud.

LEMON: So, Lou, do you think that the brothers were working just among themselves or could there -- could there be part of a larger cell still out there?

PALUMBO: I think that's only a possibility and I think that's one of the avenues that the FBI and our intelligence community is pursuing. You know, they need to determine definitively if in fact these two young boys had associations with individuals who either trained them, coached them, aided them or abetted them in some way. Because that's very significant in this whole investigation and the outcome of this investigation.

LEMON: Then how do we do better? I've heard -- to both of you I'll ask you this. I've heard people say, hey, listen, the Obama administration -- it didn't start with the Obama administration, other administrations are too afraid to profile people especially people who go back and forth between countries, people who may be Muslim. Do you agree with that?

WALSH: No, I don't agree with that particular criticism. In particular because we're going to rely on immigrant communities, Americans who are of the Muslim faith and others to help provide information about people who are dangerous. They are our eyes and ears and we need their support. So if we engage in aggressive policies that alienate that community, that's actually going to make law enforcement --

LEMON: Lou, I'll give you the final word. What do you think?

PALUMBO: I think, Don, one thing that people that people have to start to consider, is if in fact we have enough resources in all of our law enforcement agencies to meet the call at times. You know, the thing that I find curious is that if in fact the FBI interviewed them and did find something irregular in their travels or their backgrounds or their associations, if anyone is suggesting that we start to set up surveillance teams on individuals -- because, you know, I listened to a former director of the FBI today, Tom Fuentes, speak to this topic.

And I think Tom mentioned that there were about 50,000-plus individuals that hit their radar screen. So I think everybody needs to keep in mind, we have limited resources in law enforcement and that's something we need to talk about also because the trend is this reduction in resources, not increased to meet this particular need.

LEMON: But more specifically, if I can get you to answer the question, let's say we had more resources, more resources were devoted, do you think that the Obama administration going back to the Bush administration, the Clinton administration and on and on, do you think they're too reluctant to actually profile people to stop these sorts of acts, Lou? PALUMBO: No, I done think that's the case at all. And I think that the law enforcement agencies certainly have the discretion to monitor and put into place whatever mechanism necessary to track them. I don't think it's an issue of something coming from a direction of the -- of the president of the United States. I don't think there is a lack of resolve at any in all of those administrations.

LEMON: Yes. Lou Palumbo, Jim Walsh, great conversation. Thanks to both of you.

WALSH: Thank you.

LEMON: And all is well. That bang was just a television light that fell down.

WALSH: Yes. Yes.


WALSH: The competitor.

LEMON: We're good. Yes. Thank you very much, guys.

Moving on now to other news, rising water and rising fears. Half-a-dozen Midwest states have flood problems and more rain is on the way.


LEMON: As we continue along here in Boston, we're going to check another story that we're following. Communities in at least six Midwest states are on edge as floodwaters continue to rise after several days of torrential rains. CNN iReporter Landon Miller captured this footage. Check it out. It's flooding in Peru, Illinois. He says water has breached concrete barriers in the town and several building are now completely underwater.

CNN's Jim Spellman is south of there. He's in Peoria, Illinois.

So, Jim, are they expecting even more rain? Let's hope not.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're expecting -- fortunately, they don't think they're going to get much more rain. But even without any more rain this is going to be the highest flooding they've had in Peoria since the 1940s.

Don, take a look, you can already see the Illinois river here has left its banks. It's right here into the river front area of downtown Peoria. Now that's not unusual. It floods like that and they're sort of accustomed to that but it's going to go up about another two or more feet. They built this flood wall here out of sandbags over at a concrete Jersey wall.

Don, it's expected to come up about to here. And if that is the case and it doesn't go any higher, they should be OK. But you can see here, these low-lying businesses down here, this is their main concern along this riverfront area of Peoria. They have pumps going -- pump in the water straight back out over the other side of the levy.

They really feel like they've done everything they can. They've known this is coming for a couple of days. And they have this going all along, this downtown area. But it's difficult to really pinpoint the amount of flooding they're going to get. If it comes up higher, there is going to be major damage here -- Don.

LEMON: Absolutely. There's only so much predicting that you can do with Mother Nature. Any emergency rescues?

SPELLMAN: None that we're aware of at this point. We went to a town just north of here, though. And we saw maybe eight or 10 homes, pretty much submerged under water. Some people already have moved all of their stuff out of it. So there will be some damage to homes. But that should be minimal. There's not that many homes along the water here. And hopefully, they'll be able to keep these businesses safe here in Peoria.

But, Don, from North Dakota, all the way to Mississippi, flood watches and warnings as the water from these torrential storms makes their way south. So this is what they're doing in Peoria. They'll be doing this all along rivers and streams heading south for several days -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Jim Spellman. Thank you, Jim. Appreciate your reporting.

You know, the city of Boston was a ghost town on Friday. We are learning new details on the incredible toll the manhunt may have had on the economy.


LEMON: And the city of Boston was on virtual lockdown while the manhunt was under way Friday, shut down. We'll have a significant economic impact. People were encouraged to stay inside while police searched for the younger suspect.

Now this iReport, it shows empty streets in Cambridge. That was on Friday. Subways were closed most of the day. Highways were vacant, millions of people did not go to work. Thousands of businesses were closed. We witnessed that up close and personal.

I am going to get you some live pictures now. This is live pictures that you're going to look at. It is of Copley Square. And that's where people -- before I get to my guest. Copley Square and just to show you that things are starting to get back to normal right now. Starting to get back to normal right now. And they are taking down some of the things that had to do with the marathon. They are also taking down some of the barricades.

And it's starting to get back to normal. Not quite back to normal yet. But it's getting pretty close. We understand, though, that they have learned -- they have lost so much money here. They lost about $250 million on Friday.

I want to talk to my guest now. Market analyst, Todd Schoenberger. He is in Cincinnati.

Todd, so they lost thousands and thousands of dollars a day. I was here witnessing it. Many news crews and people from all over the world were witnessing it. Boston was a virtual ghost town and all of the suburbs around Boston. And there was very little business being conducted. That's a major impact.

TODD SCHOENBERGER, MARKET ANALYST/MANAGING PARTNER, LANDCOLT CAPITAL: That's right. Well, remember Boston is the 10th largest metropolitan city in the country. It averages 1.5 million workers per day. It's a $1 billion a day economy. So economists right now are projecting that the losses are going to range anywhere between $250 million to $333 million just for Friday alone. But I got to tell you, it's a small price to pay considering safety comes first.

LEMON: Yes, and listen, on Friday, we were -- we were here and taking taxis going back and forth between Watertown. And the taxi drivers were saying, I have never seen the city like this on a Friday or a Saturday night, not even the tourists are out. What is this going to do? Is this going to impact tourism in the Boston area, you think?

SCHOENBERGER: Well, it's a little too early to tell. However, you can only look at history. Look after September 11th in New York City. New York lost over $320 million in tourism revenue. So the feeling is right now you have -- many schools have canceled their field trips to Boston. If you look on some of the social media sites, the content has been somewhat concerning as far as would-be travelers to Boston.

So it does -- it will impact Boston but time only will tell and how much. But you can also look at some other soft targets that are out there. Look at upcoming marathons in key metropolitan cities. Philadelphia and New York are in November. Chicago, in October. So those are cities that may also take an impact. Because remember, those big, big marathon cities actually bring in a lot of people to travel. Hotels usually are booked, restaurants. It will have an impact on other cities as well.

LEMON: And it already has had an impact here. Let's see what the fallout is.

Todd Schoenberger, thank you very much. We appreciate you.

SCHOENBERGER: Thank you, Don. Take care.

LEMON: Our special coverage from Boston continues right after this.