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PIERS MORGAN LIVE
Suspect Reveals Motivating Factors; Interview with Bombing Suspects' Mother; Suspect's Behavior after Bombing; Boston Police Investigating Whether Tamerlan Tsarnaev May Have Been Connected To 2011 Triple Homicide
Aired April 23, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world for a night of breaking news on the Boston bombings, including these incredible new pictures showing the suspects exchanging gunfire with police.
These photos give us the best look yet of a shootout that led to the death of the older brother and ultimately the capture of the younger one. The details in a moment.
Also Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's condition is improving to fair and reports of the 19-year-old suspect could not be moved out of the hospital in days. That is family members of injured victims say his presence at the hospital create more suffering.
At the same time an official says the suspects may be motivated because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Also controversy over the burial of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Muslim religious tradition calls an immediate burial. But mosques and Islamic groups are distancing themselves from the bomber.
And from Dagestan an extraordinary interview with the mother of the suspects. What she says about his sons. That's also coming up.
All this on the day of two funerals for two victims. Eight-year- old Martin Richard killed in the bombing and MIT officer Sean Collier who was shot by the alleged bombers.
There's a lot to get tonight. We have Jake Tapper in Boston with the latest on the investigation and in Dagestan CNN's Nic Robertson with what the suspects' mother is saying.
Let's begin with Jake. Jake, a very busy day again in this investigation. Bring me up to speed on the latest news.
JAKE TAPPER, ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER": Well, Piers, we told you yesterday that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was talking with investigators or communicating with investigators, I should say, about the reasons behind this act of terrorism, and today some more information came out from that. We talked about how there was a jihadist impulse. That was the motivation. That the brothers thought that Islam was being attacked, they needed to defend it.
A U.S. government official told me today that one of the reasons in that justification, in that motivation, according to investigators is that Dzhokhar said the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were part of why they carried out this senseless act. So this is just what he is telling investigators. It is to be taken with something of a grain of salt and no one obviously is just automatically believing him, but that's one of the reasons.
We also found out a little bit more about the self-radicalization that we talked about yesterday, Piers. The idea that the brothers, according to Dzhokhar, became aware informed themselves over the Internet. A U.S. government official telling me that it's likely, likely, he said, that the sermons of Cleric Anwar al-Awlaki who was killed a couple of years ago in a drone attack that those sermons were likely part of this self-radicalization watching these videos on the Internet, Piers.
And what do we think will happen in the next few days? Are they going to carry another -- his condition is clearly improving quite rapidly. How long can they continue to interrogate him for?
TAPPER: Well, they can interview him as many times as he is willing to do so. He obviously has an attorney right now. I think one of the big considerations right now is whether or not he's going to stay at Beth Israel Hospital. A lot of the patients there who were part of -- who are his victims and are family members of his victims are objecting to the fact that he is at the hospital.
So right now according to what I think the district attorney told Ashleigh Banfield, they are thinking about moving him to a different state facility. But they -- they can interview him as often as he is willing to be interviewed.
MORGAN: You had a pretty dramatic interview today with a guy called Andrew Kitzenberg. He took photographs of that initial gunfight with police from his home, overlooking the battle in Watertown.
Tell me about that, Jake.
TAPPER: Well, it's just remarkable. I mean, imagine being woken up in the middle of the night by gunfire and then you look outside your window and you see this shootout going on. So yes, I talked to Andrea, and he had -- thankfully had the presence of mine to take photographs and live tweet this shootout between allegedly the Tsarnaev brothers and the police. And at one point he was showing me a photograph and he was detailing the pressure cooker bomb, that third pressure cooker bomb that the Tsarnaev brothers had with them. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW KITZENBERG, WITNESSED SHOOTOUT: What the red dot is highlighting here is that pressure cooker bomb. And that's what they took out of a backpack, put right at their feet, and I had a very clear view on that device.
TAPPER: And when did -- did they throw it? How did it explode? Because we see the stain on the street where it exploded.
KITZENBERG: So I actually saw them light the bomb and I saw a spark from it. As soon as I saw that spark I hit the ground. And I just got on the floor in the corner of my room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So that was Andrew Kitzenberg describing watching what he could while also taking shelter when the brothers allegedly threw a pressure cooker bomb. A really remarkable turn of events and we were glad that he shared the photographs with us. He asks that anybody watching -- watching and seeing these photos donate to the One Fund which is helping the victims of the terrorist attack -- Piers.
MORGAN: Jake Tapper, thank you very much indeed.
Now CNN's interview with the suspect's mother is an emotional and extraordinary interview. Nic Robertson joins me from Dagestan.
Nic, before we get to the mother's interview, what is the mood like in Dagestan? How do the people there feel about the fact that these two boys who originate from that area have committed or allegedly committed this atrocity.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There really seems to be a large part of denial going on here, Piers. And people really don't want to discuss what Tamerlan might have been done during his visit here, those six months last year. It's sort of a closed community, if you will, in that respect to outsiders. But I think the general feeling is surprise. It's shock. It's disassociation. Disbelief.
But I think that perhaps the overriding thing really is that a lot of people are in denial about it. They say how could these good Muslims do this, kill innocent people, Piers?
MORGAN: Right, and this denial is led by their mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaev, who gave this extraordinary interview to CNN. Tell us about this.
ROBERTSON: Yes, she is. She is really being vociferous, loud, incredibly outspoken but shocked at seeing the images of her sons, Tamerlan, in particular, when he was blooded after that firefight. But she has said very clearly now something that's incredibly strong, accusing U.S. officials of killing one son and now saying -- I mean, listen to what she says. Now saying, I don't care if they kill my other son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZUBEIDAT TSARNAEV, SUSPECTS' MOTHER: If they're going to kill him, I don't care. My oldest is killed so I don't care. I don't care if my youngest one is going to be killed today. So I want the world to hear this. And I don't care if I am going to killed, too. OK? And I will say Allahu Akbar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: This is a mother who is incredibly angry right now, who is coming to terms with what's happened and as you've heard there, just in denial about it, Piers.
MORGAN: Yes, but I mean, you can understand that she is completely grief stricken and it would appear deeply shocked by what has happened. At the same presumably the authorities what to talk to her in a pretty urgent way about what else she may have known because she claims to be in daily contact with Tamerlan at least.
ROBERTSON: Indeed. The FBI, we understand, are sending a team here who will try and talk to her. She -- she left her apartment today for the first time that people -- journalists waiting outside have actually had a chance to see her being escorted away an unknown man taken to an unknown location. But she for sure is going to be a very important part of any investigation. Not just on those recent conversations but digging into some of the facts in the past about what her sons had been doing, and particularly Tamerlan, who spent all that time here -- Piers.
MORGAN: Nic Robertson, thank you very much indeed.
Now new details on the Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's life in Boston. Friends feel betrayed and confused and believe his older brother may be to blame for his alleged role in the bombings.
Joining me now from Boston is Steve Trobio. And on the phone is Gilberto Junior, a mechanic who is known the Tsarnaevs for two years.
Let me talk to you first, if I may, Gilberto Junior. Now you run an auto mechanic business and lived opposite these brothers. How well did you know them?
GILBERTO JUNIOR, FRIEND OF TSARNAEV (via phone): The oldest one, I probably knew him for about -- probably like eight years now.
MORGAN: And the younger one?
JUNIOR: The youngest one, I would say probably two years for the first two years.
MORGAN: Now Dzhokhar Tsarnaev came to your shop on the afternoon after the bombing. Is that correct?
JUNIOR: Yes. On Tuesday, was between I'd say 12:30 to 1:00 p.m.
MORGAN: And he had left a 2007 Mercedes station wagon with you two weeks before.
MORGAN: Claiming it was his girlfriend's car. He came back on this after the bombing to ask for it back. Did he explain why he needed it?
JUNIOR: No. For us I thought, you know, because the car was in my shop for two weeks, probably, you know, I thought whatever, who owns the car was upset. You know that it's been sitting there two weeks. And by asking him why, he just told that he needs the car of the person on the same date. He did not want to wait for the repairs to be done.
MORGAN: He would you describe his behavior?
JUNIOR: On Tuesday was the first time that I see him acting the way he was acting. I spoke with him many, many times before. You know that he was always very soft spoken and very kind and very nice. And soon I realized he was -- he was biting his fingernails a little bit. And then he was looking over his shoulders and kind of actions nervous at the same time.
MORGAN: Did he pay you for the repair works to the car?
JUNIOR: No. He didn't pay me. I was going to do the work. But I never did no work. I just removed the rear bumper. And I was about to put the car inside the shop and go ahead and finish the job but they never finished the job.
MORGAN: The older brother Tamerlan came to your shop about two months ago. How would you describe him?
JUNIOR: He's always quiet. He never talked with me about anything. He was always straightforward. He asked how much it would be to pay for the bumper. And (INAUDIBLE), you know, like the agreed the price and that he's brought the car he next day then came and pick it up. It's the thought of different person then his young brother.
And Gilberto, you're a proud Bostonian. You must be pretty shocked that these two brothers that you knew pretty well for a number of years have been caught up in such an appalling thing.
JUNIOR: I still can't believe it, you know? I still can't believe it. I'm sad. I'm mad. I'm angry. At the same time kind of feeling guilty, you know. Because if I knew what I know today back on Tuesday, you know, everything could be different. That's why I am feeling guilty with myself. I'm definitely feeling guilty.
MORGAN: Well, I can understand. There's no reason to feel guilty at all. You have no reason to know this. But listen, Gilberto --
JUNIOR: I did -- save another life.
JUNIOR: I can save another life.
MORGAN: I can understand why you -- I can understand why you feel that way. But I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty but I do appreciate you joining me. Thank you very much.
JUNIOR: Thank you so much.
MORGAN: Steve, Steve Trobio, you played soccer with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev for a couple of years, I think. How would you describe him?
STEVE TROBIO, FRIEND OF DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV: Very kind. Pretty much similar to every college friend that I have. Like no different than any other kid.
MORGAN: This is what all his friends are saying. Particularly the students that were alongside him the last couple of years and yet clearly there was another side to this boy which turned him into an alleged mass killer. Did anything in his behavioral pattern in the last few months say to you something is not quite right here?
TROBIO: I saw him two weeks before the incident and he was exactly the same Dzhokhar as always. Kind. We were playing some FIFA on Xbox which is a soccer game. Nothing out of the ordinary to be honest.
MORGAN: Can you believe that he is capable of doing what he has alleged to have done?
TROBIO: I mean, it's really hard to think about it just because you never think that one of your friends can just become a terrorist any time. And it makes you think about all of your friends all together, if any of them could be doing anything different than what you know of them. Because it so crazy to think someone that was so normal could go from being so normal and being your friend to becoming a terrorist.
MORGAN: Dzhokhar was very active on social media, as were many of the students. I'm sure that you are, too. Was there anything about his Twitter feed, the people he followed, Facebook friends, anything of a religious nature? A political nature?
TROBIO: I know he followed Islamic stuff on Twitter. But outside of that, that is like literally the only thing linking anything towards radicalism or any type of terrorism at that point.
MORGAN: One of the more shocking aspects of his behavior after the bombing is he carried on going back to the university and leading a perfectly normal life. You have a good friend who saw him in that period. What did he say about his demeanor?
TROBIO: Two of my friends saw him at the gym the day after the bombing at like 9:00 or 10:00 at night, they said. They had a -- one of them had a conversation with him about the bombing, in which he said -- pretty much he said that he was like any other conversation that he had with anyone about the bombing. And that he looked a little tired, but nothing out of the ordinary.
MORGAN: Quite extraordinary. Steve Trobio, thank you for joining me.
TROBIO: No problem. MORGAN: Up next, Boston heroes. The man whose tip led to the suspect's arrest and the rescuer who saved a woman from the horror. That's coming up.
And later my interview with the man cleared of sending a poison- laced letter to the president. And he joins me live.
MORGAN: When an army of law enforcement officers looked for the suspect, it was one man from Watertown who found the alleged killer hiding in his boat. That (INAUDIBLE) the manhunt and perhaps saved many lives from being lost. And now the hero is telling his story. Spoke to Ed Harding, the anchor for WCVB, News Center 5 in Boston. Joins me now.
Hey, congratulations on your terrific scoop with this guy. I talked to his son-in-law, actually, on the night that it happened and he gave us a once-removed version of events. But it all sounded quite remarkable then and your interview with him takes it a step forward. How did you find him?
ED HARDING, WCVB NEWS CENTER 5 ANCHOR: Well, it was actually very simple. Watertown is a great town in the area. I grew up in Newton right near that. I just decided you know what, I'm going to try to call the guy. So, I simply called the guy and fortunately, he knew where I was. He had been around for a while. He knew who I was and it was a familiar face to him. So, he wanted to return the phone call. So he returned the phone call.
But it's funny. The stepson probably told you stories along the line that he is a very anal human being, and he really is, because he's very detail-oriented, and that's why he found the guy.
MORGAN: Right, because he had meticulously left the boat in a certain condition. So, when he was finally allowed back out by the authorities. Let's take a little listen, actually, to part of your interview with David Henneberry that will explain exactly what we're talking about.
DAVID HENNEBERRY, BOAT OWNER: I know people say there was blood on the boat. He saw blood and went in. Not true.
HARDING: Not true?
HENNEBERRY: Not true.
HARDING: The word is you saw the boat. You pulled back the wrapping. You saw a body. It moved, and you called 911.
HENNEBERRY: Oh, no, no.
HARDING: No? HENNEBERRY: No, no.
HARDING: So he went to the garage and grabbed a stepladder.
HENNEBERRY: I got -- I think three steps up the ladder, and I rolled it up. and I could see through the shrink wrap. I didn't expect to see anything. And I look in the boat over here and on the floor, and I see blood.
HARDING: A lot of blood?
HENNEBERRY: A good amount of blood.
HENNEBERRY: And my eyes went to the other side of the engine box. The engine box is in the middle. There was a body.
HARDING: And at that moment, what did you do? What were you thinking at that moment?
HENNEBERRY: Oh my God.
HARDING: He couldn't see suspect number two's face. He was glad he couldn't see his face.
HENNEBERRY: I know I took three steps up the ladder. I don't remember stepping down off the ladder. This hits you more afterwards where you think my God, he probably slept last night. This guy could be in the -- I don't know. It just -- it's surreal.
HARDING: In that instant police responded and he and his wife were taken away.
People are calling you a national hero.
HENNEBERRY: The feel that were killed can get some -
HARDING: You know, in many ways they do.
HENNEBERRY: They're not at peace. You know.
MORGAN: Extraordinary interview. And he's such a humble, nice guy, but very normal and clearly propelled purely by default, really, into this totally abnormal world.
HARDING Here's the other part of it, too. When he got down off the ladder and he called 911, he's on the phone. And he's so detail oriented, he's on the phone with the 911 operator. The operator says can you see him? And then he realizes he can't see behind the boat. So he tells the guy, I can't see behind the boat. And then he says, well, hang up. Authorities will be right there.
Piers, he hung up. He went back outside. He checked the back of the boat. So he was not completely satisfied until he saw that the suspect was still in the boat and at that point in time, that's when the authorities arrived. And that's when he was escorted out with his wife.
MORGAN: That is true heroism, and I salute him for that. One of the many weird aspects of all this is his boat's name was Slip Away 2. I mean, you couldn't make that up, could you?
HARDING: You can't! I said, you going to get another boat? He said absolutely. He doesn't want to do Slip Away because he said Slip Away is going to the FBI. But the next boat I get will be called Slip Away because she does her job.
MORGAN: Ed, congratulations again. Terrific interview. Ed Harding there from WCVB in Boston.
HARDING: Thanks, Piers.
MORGAN: Now to another hero, Tyler Dobb. Moments after the bombing, he rescued Victoria McGrath, who was seriously wounded in the attacked. And today, for the first time since that horrific day, the two were reunited. And Tyler joins me now.
Tyler, we spoke the other day and you hadn't met or spoken to Victoria, but you finally did today. What was the moment like for you?
TYLER DOBB, BOSTON BOMBING RESCUER: It was probably one of the most amazing spiritual moments of my life, Piers.
MORGAN: You walked in to see her at the hospital and what happened?
DOBB: We met. I walked into the room. She was sitting there. Basically, I was at a loss for words, which is not real common with me. I didn't know what to say. We kind of looked at each other and had another unspoken bond, unspoken connection. It was beautiful. She's an amazing girl. Her family is amazing. I can't speak enough on how she gave me strength to help others out.
MORGAN: She, just to remind viewers, had been injured by shrapnel of the bombs, and she made a public appeal to find you. Didn't know who you were, but said this guy came along, shielded her, helped her, supported her, shared stories of some of your early experience. You told me all about that the other night. It must have been quite a moment for both of you, actually. Did she thank you?
DOBB: Yes. She did thank me. She did thank me. And her family was very thankful. I'm just grateful for the opportunity to have helped out. It's been quite an experience. It's been a life changing experience. I think I know my course in life is to help others out and to just continue to do the next right thing and I think all things will work out.
MORGAN: How is Victoria? How is she doing? DOBB: She seems to be doing really well. She's in great spirits. I was told she wakes up smiling every day. She is just super positive. It's unbelievable how positive she's stayed through this and how positive she was tonight.
MORGAN: Well, Tyler, you're a great hero. One of many heroes who is did just exceptional things on this day. And I'm just so glad you got reunited. This is a lovely story that she appealed for you. Great that you came forward and even better that today you were reunited together and met for the first time. And I thank you again for the great service you showed.
DOBB: Thank you, Piers. Thank you very, very much.
MORGAN: Tyler Dobb. Great guy.
Next, the big story we're following. The stunning new twist in the ricin scare. The man accused of sending the poison-laced letters to the president amongst others is free tonight. He's talking and joins me live, coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN CURTIS, FORMER RICIN SUSPECT: I had never heard of ricin or whatever. I thought they said rice so I said, I don't even eat rice.
MORGAN: A major twist in the case of ricin-tainted letters sent to President Obama and other officials. Charges against Kevin Curtis of Mississippi were dropped today after a U.S. attorney announced new information has been uncovered. Authorities are now trying to determine if the real suspect set up Curtis for the fall.
Joining me now on the phone is Kevin Curtis. Mr. Curtis, thank you for joining me. A quite extraordinary twist today. You have gone from being the man alleged to have tried to poison the president of the United States to a completely innocent man in the space of a couple of days. How do you feel about this?
CURTIS (on the phone): I'm overwhelmed. I'm extremely happy to be vindicated and out and able to see my kids. I haven't seen them yet. I haven't seen them for seven days. I couldn't be out in open population because I was on the news every day. And I didn't even know I was on the news until today.
MORGAN: When you're sitting there -- you were sitting there for seven days, like you say, staring at four walls in custody. And had you been convicted of this crime, you probably would have never came out of there. You're a father of four. How do you feel? What were you think?
CURTIS: You just said it. I kept thinking, this is serious. It took 24 hours for me to even be educated and informed on the actual charge. I heard the word ricin for the first time in my life by a federal agent of Homeland Security while being interrogated for four hours in a federal building in Oxford, and I thought he said rice for about an hour. I said, I don't even eat rice, usually. I'm not a rice lover. Your phone's going crazy.
And they told me, you know what it's about. You know what you did. I'm standing in front of my home with my little puppy, Moo Cow, and I'm completely overwhelmed at the hooded machine gun guys. It looked like a scene out of a movie. And I was just overwhelmed. I just kept asking, what is ricin; what did I do. They kept on, you know what you did. You know what this is about. Don't try to act with us. We already know.
So I was already assumed guilty before I was even told what it was about. But that's the one thing that has really been bothering me, because we're here in the United States of America. We're innocent until proven guilty, is what I've been told my whole life. I completely felt I was guilty until I could prove my innocence. And I can't help but think now, how many people are thrown in jail because circumstantial evidence and somebody can frame you that easily.
MORGAN: Let me come to that. The belief is that you were set up. Do you have a suspicion as to who has done this to you?
CURTIS: I do now. I didn't when it happened. But after the facts started coming in and my attorney was, you know, coming to me and asking me certain specific questions, the dots starred to connect in my head, and she started thinking that information. And she would zoom out and leave me in jail and she would do her investigative work. Christi McCoy (ph), my attorney, was amazing. You know, in the jungle of law and court, you have monkeys. You have kangaroos and you have lions. She was the lion queen. She was just amazing.
MORGAN: This story has Elvis, rive, ricin, jungles. It has it all. But there is a very serious aspect to this, because whoever set you up was sending a deadly poison to the president and senators and so on. When that person is caught, if they are caught, they will face potentially life imprisonment. This is actually very, very serious. The person you believe did this to you, why would they do that to you?
CURTIS: Well, you know, I am an entertainer. And I've been doing activism work in various areas of politics. I've just sort of stayed in a radar using the Internet and e-mail. And I've had meetings with other activists at my home over the years. And I'm known for I'm sort of an up in your face guy, but I'm quiet and reserved, on one hand, and I'm an entertainer on the other hand. But there's also this political side to me that was born.
MORGAN: Right. But Kevin, this particular guy that you -- I think it's a man that you suspect, have you had an ongoing feud with him?
CURTIS: Yes. Several years he's been showing up on my radar. People in town coming to me, asking me, do you know this guy hates you? He has it out for you. I never knew why. I've asked a hundred people over the years, who is he? Where did he come from? What is his agenda? What's his objective? Why me? Is it music related? Is it martial arts? Because a waitress came to my house one night and said, here's this guy came in. I waited on him. He began asking me questions about you. I told him you were on my MySpace page; he said he knew you were. That told me a red flag that, oh, he's watching me. So he knows this waitress from Applebees is on my MySpace page.
MORGAN: Have you met this person?
CURTIS: I have. I ran into him at a local restaurant a few years back.
MORGAN: And was it a hostile encounter?
CURTIS: Pardon me?
MORGAN: Was it a hostile encounter?
CURTIS: Oh, no. He began sweating. He couldn't control. It was a very cool day, and he began sweating like crazy. His face turned blood red. And he took off his jacket and he loosened his tie. And I asked him, I said, so you've got this newspaper. You sent out letters to my home and said you would like to interview me for the newspaper you own. And it was a free publication that he handed out in northeast Mississippi to all the restaurants an businesses. I say, well, here I am; you want to interview me about this controversial story about how I found body parts in the refrigerator of the North Mississippi Medical Center, and you will publish my story.
But when I called him out on it, he was like, no I, can't touch it. I'm ruling politics -- I'm in politics and I'm running for district 16 in the Republican party.
MORGAN: The more you speak about this, the more bizarre it gets. We now have body parts in a hospital added to the mix of Elvis, jungles and ricin and goodness knows what else. Final question, do you expect this person to now be interviewed by authorities? Have they led you to believe that will happen?
CURTIS: To my understanding, he already is and his home is quarantined by the federal agent.
MORGAN: And you must feel pretty relieved tonight.
CURTIS: Oh, it's like a train has been lifted off of my shoulders, sir.
MORGAN: Will you be singing this weekend? Are you performing?
CURTIS: I'm going to be on "Good Morning America" in the morning. I'm going to Memphis, Tennessee from that. There are a few other shows. People are calling about publishing my book and my music. So much is happening so fast. I haven't six hours in five days. Right now, I want to find my dog, Moo Cow, and I want to see my kids.
MORGAN: Kevin, I don't blame you. I'm sorry for what you've been through. It must have been hell on Earth for the last week. I'm glad that they finally worked out that it wasn't you, and you can get on with your life. Thank you for joining me.
CURTIS: Thank you so much.
MORGAN: Kevin Curtis, what a story? Joining me now is Mitch Silber. He's the author of "the Al Qaeda Factor," and executive managing director of K2 Intelligence. Also here, CNN contributor and former CIA operative Robert Baer and attorney Alan Dershowitz. Welcome to you all.
Let me start with you, Mitch, if I may. You're director intelligence analysis at New York City Police Department, expert in al Qaeda. A lot of growing belief that in some way the FBI has dropped the ball in this investigation, that they had this guy in their sights. Russian authorities asked them to interview them. They did. And then when he went back to Russia for this mystery six months, they lost track of him.
MITCHELL SILBER, EXEC. MANAGING DIR., K2 INTELLIGENCE: Yeah. I think it's one of the issues where one has to evaluate the set of facts. Knowing this individual had been identified by the Russians as an individual that they were concerned about, travel overseas to a zone of conflict, then coming back to the United States. And on his Youtube page, which I have looked at, you can see the different videos that he identified as liking and certain extremist clerics who he identified as liking.
When you put that set of facts together, plus adding the fact that friends and family saw him change right before their eyes -- he gave up boxing, other types of changes. When you look at that fact set, from my position, my former position at NYPD, we would have been very reluctant to shut down an investigation on someone like that, because that's a very disconcerting set of facts.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break. Let's come back to Bob and to Alan on the -- because these are fascinating developments in this case. Next, the new details on what the bombing suspect is saying and what it could mean for the case against him.
MORGAN: Officials tonight say the suspects apparently have no accomplices and are not linked to extremists. Still, a lot of questions about the plot remain. Back now with Mitch Silber, Robert Baer and attorney Alan Dershowitz.
Bob Baer, let me turn to you about this, because we have a clip to play. This is from an interview with Channel 4 in the U.K., also with the boy's mother. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZUBEIDAT TSARNAEV, MOTHER OF BOSTON BOMBING SUSPECT: I know that because I used to talk to them. They used to come to our house and like two, three times. Then my Tamerlan used to tell me that he used to talk to them, too. Because they called me once and they wanted his number. I used to get really worried because, you know, it is my kids and I am his mother, again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: We don't know whether she's telling the truth or not. But if she is, the FBI, who she is talking about there, is being in repeated contract with both Tamerlan Tsarnaev and with her, have questions to answer, don't they?
BOB BAER, FORMER CIA AGENT: Oh, absolutely. Piers, at this point -- I didn't think this at the beginning, but someone did drop the ball. When the Russians come to the United States with a warning like this you have to take it seriously. They are the only ones who understand the Chechens and the danger the represent. And the fact that the investigation wasn't left open, somebody made a mistake, obviously, but they should have known it at the time. And they should have correlated that warning with Youtube, telephone calls and the visit to Dagestan. There is no other explanation, from what I've seen.
MORGAN: Right. Alan Dershowitz, what is the legal situation here? What we understand is the FBI were alerted by the Russian authorities, so they interviewed Tamerlan. They interrogate him. They think there's nothing there to worry about. But then when he leaves the country to go to Russia, homeland security is alerted. So there's an alert presence about him. After that, we have no idea what happens to this guy. We don't even know, to this day, whether he went to Chechnya indefinitely or how many times, who he saw. But we know something went on, because when he came back, he turned into a mass killer. What could they have done legally?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, civil libertarians are very concerned about surveiling every suspicious person. If you got all the people who fit this category, you would have thousands of people who might be surveilled. But there are incremental things that the FBI can do without violating civil liberties. They can look at his Youtube pages. They can watch him in public places. They come -- if it comes very extreme, they might have to get a warrant and get a wiretap.
They can try to use stings against him, send somebody saying, hey, do you want to do something terrible; I'm the guy who can get you the guns. There are calibrated responses. Some of them do require legal intervention. Some of them don't. But the FBI certainly has the authority to at least watch and observe. If they didn't do that, then they have no excuse based on either civil liberties or law.
MORGAN: Mitch, what we do know is that even in Dagestan, there's a lot of terror activity goes on there, a lot of conflict between the people and the police, a lot of bombings, two, three, four a month. All the time that he was back, he would have been in the middle of all this. And we just don't know enough information, do we, about what he was up to, what his involvement may have been, who he was talking to. We don't know anything. The FBI had this guy right in their sights. SILBER: Well, time and time again when we look at terrorist subjects who radicalize in the west, one of the common features is this overseas travel. They may go overseas seeking sanction. They may go overseas for training. They may go overseas because they want to volunteer to help the foreign fighters. When those individuals come back, whether it's from Pakistan, whether it's from Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Chechnya, Russia, that's a point that deserves more scrutiny, to find out what did those individuals do overseas.
Otherwise you might have a Boston event. Times Square bombing, May, 2010, individual goes to Pakistan, lost track on the radar. Comes back -- comes back to Times Square in a vehicle to deliver an attack.
DERSHOWITZ: It's much easier to do it, by the way, if he's not a citizen. If he's not a citizen, you have much more control over his travels.
MORGAN: He wasn't. His brother was.
DERSHOWITZ: He was not. Much more control over his ability to leave the country, his ability to return to the country. He has far fewer rights when it comes to being surveilled abroad. In the country, he still has rights. You don't want to overdo the surveillance. But there's a lot more that could have been done.
MORGAN: Bob Baer, finally, is it plausible that these two brothers concocted all of this on their own, as apparently the younger brother is claiming to investigators? They just got it off the Internet, made these bombs from stuff they read in magazines. To me, this all stinks to high heaven of some other entity being involved, because they couldn't have just learned all this stuff, could they, from the Internet?
BAER: No, absolutely not. You know, delaying the police with bombs, making five of them go off, it just can't be done unless you're extraordinarily lucky. Somebody got some training, and I doubt it was in Massachusetts. The most reasonable explanation, it was done in Dagestan. They showed him how to make detonators, put these things together, wire them. Whether they directed it or not, I don't know.
Maybe they didn't even know about the attacks. But the point is these people were too good at what they were doing to consider it just luck.
DERSHOWITZ: If the young man knows about this, he's going to be able to trade that information perhaps for some kind of a deal. Now that he has lawyers involved, he probably will remember more things than he was willing to tell.
MORGAN: People who have never done this before do not coolly walk around the bomb scene just before the bombs go off, I would attest. It's just not normal behavior.
We will leave it there for now. Bob Baer, Alan Dershowitz and Mitch Silber, thank you all very much indeed. Coming up, murder before the bombing; the suspect's possible ties to a triple homicide, including his best friend. That's next.
MORGAN: Day two on the casualty situation regarding the Boston marathon bombings, 43 people remain in the hospital tonight with injuries. That's out of a total of 264 who got some form of injury from the explosions. And of those who were injured, 14 had amputations. It's important to remember that throughout this coverage.
The bombing may have had a link to an unsolved triple murder involving one of Tamerlan Tsarnaev's best friends. Three victims were found in a gruesome crime scene in 2011. Joining me now is "Boston Globe" investigative reporter Michael Rezendes. Mr. Rezendes, an extraordinary potential twist here. But the bottom line is this: do you believe there is any link between Tamerlan Tsarnaev and this triple killing involving one of his best friends?
MICHAEL REZENDES, "BOSTON GLOBE": Well, I believe that there's enough information that has come to light since the bombings that will cause investigators to take another really close, hard look at this. A lot of things that we now know that I think investigators probably did not know or did not think was especially important back in 2011 when these three individuals were killed.
MORGAN: Three people, Brendan Mesh, Raphael Techen (ph) and Eric Weisman (ph). How were they killed? And what was the belief at the time in terms of who had done it?
REZENDES: Well, I think the belief at the time was that this was probably a drug-related murder. All three individuals had their throats slit and their bodies were sprinkled with marijuana, which seemed to be, perhaps, a message from more powerful drug dealers that didn't want anyone intruding on their turf. But now things look a little bit different, because we now know that one of the victims, Brendan Mesh, was a close friend of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of the marathon suspected bombers.
And we also know that the murders probably took place on September 11th, 2011, which would have been the tenth anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Needless to say, a date of enormous significance to Islamic Jihadists. We know this because one of the relatives was interviewed by myself. And he said that he was texting one of the victims on the night of September 11th because it was a New York Jet's football game going on. And the texts stop abruptly at about 8:15 that evening.
So we now know this murder probably took place on September 11th. We know that Tamerlan had recently, perhaps a year before, become converted to a much more radical form of Islam. We know now that even though Brendan was a friend of his, he didn't show up at the funeral. We also know that he went to Russia for six months not too long afterwards. So you add all of these things together and it really looks like a case where there's just so much coincidence involved that investigators really need to take another look at it. And I think that's what they're doing.
MORGAN: Yes, absolutely fascinating.
Lastly, Michael, I know that you ran the marathon last week. What are your memories of that day, given the appalling events that happened?
REZENDES: Well, I was stopped about eight blocks from the finish line. I guess my thought now is I'm just very, very grateful that this year, unlike in previous years, I didn't have anyone waiting for me at the finish line. There was no one I knew, no one I loved who was hurt or killed. So I'm very, very grateful for that.
Otherwise, it was just one of the most extraordinary days I've ever had. I immediately started my reporting for the Globe as soon as I talked to a police officer and found out there had been a couple of explosions and probably a couple of fatalities. I was working for the Globe straight through that evening, until about 10:30 at night.
MORGAN: Quite extraordinary, as it was for so many people in Boston. Michael Rezendes, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
MORGAN: And we'll be right back.
MORGAN: Tomorrow night, the wrong man. How a missing Brown University student became part of the story in the search for the Boston bombers. Online rumors connecting the two spread like wild fire. Many also saw a resemblance between the missing man and one of the suspects. All of this bringing more heartbreak to a family desperate for answers. I'll talk exclusively to the young man's brother and sister.
That's tomorrow night. Now, Anderson Cooper.