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Juror Dismissed after DUI Arrest; Travis Went to Cops about Jodi?
Aired April 29, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the Jodi Arias trial as we barrel ahead towards closing arguments this week. We are now uncovering the secrets behind why a third juror was booted off the jury. Did the pressure of the trial drive him to the bottle?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.
More breaking news. Travis didn`t just complain to other women about Jodi`s stalking. He reportedly filed a police report when Jodi slashed his tires. He filed that police complaint just four months before he was killed. Was Jodi a ticking time bomb in the months leading up to when she stabbed Travis 29 times and slit his throat ear to ear and shot him in the face?
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: He described you as his kryptonite, right?
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Yes.
KIRK NURMI, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: "You are the ultimate slut in bed."
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM (via phone): Is it wrong that I`m glad that we started (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
J. ARIAS (via phone): Well, if it`s wrong, then I don`t want to be right.
JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER TRIAL: "Did you ever refer to Jodi Arias as a stalker of Travis Alexander?"
LISA ANDREWS DIADONI, FORMER GIRLFRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes.
MIMI HALL, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: He told me that at that point that he had a stalker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him.
MARTINEZ: He indicates that he is extremely afraid of the defendant because of her stalking behavior.
J. ARIAS (on camera): "You are a sociopath."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really was an obsession type of thing. And the way he described it, that she was really stalking him.
WILLIAM ARIAS, JODI`S FATHER: She snuck up in his house and she looked in the window and she saw him on the couch with another woman.
J. ARIAS: "You have never cared about me."
ALEXANDER: You introduced me to K-Y. Did you know that?
J. ARIAS: " Just a way to reel me back into the bull crap."
ALEXANDER: The way you moan, it sounds like -- sounds like you`re a 12-year-old girl having her first orgasm. It`s so hot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re at the doorstep of closing arguments. What is the key for each side to seal the deal with the jury?
And also tonight, brand-new information about Jodi`s jailhouse art. Is her art as phony as some of those courtroom tears? We`ll have the details. What do you think? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to this breaking news about juror No. 8 off the case. Radar Online`s Alexis Tereszcuk, what do you know about why the judge sent this latest juror packing?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADAR ONLINE: Well, he actually, unfortunately, got a DUI two weekends ago. He was pulled over by the cops. They found that, allegedly, he was over the limit for alcohol.
But he actually told them that he is a juror on the Jodi Arias trial. You`re not allowed to talk to anybody about this. It was a law enforcement person, but that person contacted the court. In fact the police officer met with the judge behind closed doors in chambers, and this juror was dismissed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Newly dismissed juror No. 8. This guy had been nicknamed "the CEO," because he was like the CEO of the jury.
Now, a lot of courtroom watchers had pegged this guy as their top draft pick to be the jury foreperson. Top draft pick is what I`m trying to say. He took tons of notes, and he paid very close attention every single day.
Now, I want to go to Dr. Judy Ho. But actually, I think we`re going to debate this first. This is -- I think we should debate this. This is the third juror to be removed.
There was a huge scandal when juror No. 5, known as "Two-Tone" for her two-colored hairstyle, was yanked from court and then actually came back to sit with the public and watch the trial.
Expert panel, this is like the Wild West. How do these jurors being removed affect the jury that remains during deliberations? They form a bond. Humans are pack animals. And then suddenly one member of their pack is yanked. How does it affect the psychology of the remaining jurors, Stacey Honowitz for the prosecution?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, listen, certainly, initially, the next day, they`re wondering what happened to this person that they`ve had this bond with fir four or five months, every single day, sitting in the courtroom, going out on breaks together.
So initially it`s just about, where is he, where is she? What`s going on. Right after that you have to get yourself right back in the pace of things. You have these alternates, and they`re sitting there for a specific reason. That is in case any of the jurors have to be dismissed. You have to assume that, at some point in a trial this long, it`s going to happen. By health, other circumstances, and in this case by an arrest.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I have to believe that there is something particularly stressful about this case, right up there with other mega cases. You saw that one of the defense witnesses, Alyce LaViolette, reportedly went to the hospital with anxiety attacks. The same thing has to be for the jurors. There has to be a stress level here.
Drew Findling, criminal defense attorney, you`re representing the defense. This has got to be hard on everybody psychologically.
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, this is exactly why, in a death penalty case, jurors are traditionally, for example, in the southeast, in Georgia they`re sequestered. Anytime you have death as the potential verdict, there`s an amazing amount of pressure on the jurors, both from the outside and within the jury room and the courtroom, which is why we saw in Casey Anthony they were properly sequestered.
And we`re seeing once again what happens. They fall by the wayside when you don`t sequester them. They should have been sequestered. This wouldn`t have happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez, do you agree?
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, ATTORNEY: I disagree. This happens in any type of jury trial. It`s normal. And is this going to affect other jurors? I don`t think it`s going to affect other jurors at all. At the end of the day they have to make a decision. They`ve been following the case, and they`re going to make a decision based on what they think the evidence is. We hope.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll tell you one thing. A lot of people look at these jurors, and they make decisions and make assumptions based on how they dress, how they behave. As to which way they`re going. And a lot of times these so-called experts are dead wrong.
I saw with the Michael Jackson child molestation trial where they pegged somebody as being pro-prosecution, and then the jury came back pro- acquittal. It`s fascinating when you try to read what`s going on in the mind of somebody else who`s not speaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can`t. Except in this case they ask questions, so that`s a hint. February 2008, here`s what we`re learning. Four months before Travis Alexander is killed, he calls police and he files a report, a written report, that his car`s tires had been slashed. He did not mention any suspects, though those close to him were convinced that he was convinced it was Jodi who slashed his tires. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you were both in a singles ward.
WILLMOTT: Can you describe for me what that means?
DIADONI: Yes. It`s just a place where members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would go. I started going when I was 18. That`s the age you would start going, and there are single members that go up until they`re age 30. When they turn 31 is when they would go to a different ward.
WILLMOTT: OK. So a singles ward, I assume if somebody gets married, then they would not be in the singles ward anymore.
WILLMOTT: OK. So in other words, you wouldn`t be in a singles ward now?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know what? She`s talking about the singles ward. We`re talking about tire slashing.
Suffice it to say that this young lady, Lisa Andrews, said that her tires had been slashed and that Travis, who she was seeing at the time, his tires had been slashed, and they both thought that Jodi Arias did it.
Straight out to Jon Leiberman. What do you know about the police report that we`re just now learning that Travis Alexander filed about these slashings?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, here`s what we know, and here`s why you probably won`t hear it in this phase of the trial. ABC News first reported it, and we confirmed that on February 2, 2008, about four months before Travis was brutally killed, he did call police. And he called Mesa police and told them that his tires had been slashed, and they classified it as, quote, "criminal damage."
But here is a major factor. When police went to follow up with Travis, they could never get a hold of him for any follow-up information. So Jodi Arias`s name never appeared on anything connected to this police report to this call from Travis.
So, while we know Travis called police, there could be any number of reasons why Travis didn`t go forward with continuing this complaint. And that`s why you`re not going to hear in this phase, I believe, the substance of this call, because you can`t directly tie Jodi to it, although, of course, as you mentioned, you can tie others` testimony to it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s frustrating, Jon Leiberman, because we all know there`s no other candidate for tire slasher of the year than Jodi Arias.
LEIBERMAN: Nobody is as frustrated as I am, Jane. I know, common sense dictates, you know, that this would have been Jodi. However, in a court of law, you have to follow, you know, the rules and because Jodi wasn`t directly named here, this is why nobody is bringing this into evidence, I believe. And I believe it`s the prudent thing to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez, the fact is that we all know in our gut there was nobody else slashing her tires and slashing Travis`s tires but Jodi Arias.
And Lisa Andrews, that pretty blonde lady that you saw there on the stand, she also got a very weird e-mail in biblical language: "Ye should not lay with Travis" and all sorts of biblical lingo to try to scare her from sleeping with Travis Alexander. And I`m not saying she did sleep with him, but from dating him. So why is it that we can`t get that common sense into the courtroom?
GOMEZ: Because it`s hearsay, Jane. It`s not competent evidence, OK? This is just what people are assuming, and this is what people are thinking. Nobody saw Jodi Arias slash any tires. Nobody has any evidence that it was Jodi Arias who sent this e-mail to Lisa Diadoni (ph).
In fact, at that time Travis was dating multiple women. We continued to hear throughout the trial that he had seeing multiple women that he was seeing. He was seeing a married woman. He was seeing this woman, that woman. So we don`t know who did this, who had some type of vendetta against him. Obviously, he had numerous relationships, and you can`t pin it on Jodi just because right now she`s going through this trial and there`s some evidence against her. You can`t say that she was the one who slashed the tires.
LEIBERMAN: Whoa, whoa, whoa. There`s a lot more than some evidence against Jodi Arias. There`s a myriad of evidence about Jodi slaughtering Travis.
GOMEZ: There`s no evidence about her slashing any tires. It is hearsay. That`s why the report didn`t get in.
LEIBERMAN: Maybe you didn`t had hear me. You can out-scream me, Evangeline. Maybe you didn`t hear me. I was agreeing that this particular police report, as I said three minutes ago, shouldn`t be entered in.
GOMEZ: Thank you.
LEIBERMAN: Because Jodi was never confirmed. Now, the real question is, and one that we can debate, is why didn`t Travis follow up with police? Was he protecting Jodi Arias? Was this a way -- he didn`t really want her to be -- to have a police record or anything like that?
GOMEZ: Or -- or maybe he didn`t know who it was.
LEIBERMAN: We could speculate that.
GOMEZ: Maybe he didn`t know who it was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the phone lines.
GOMEZ: And when you`re dealing with a criminal investigation you have to provide correct evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim, Texas, your question or thought? Jim, Texas.
CALLER: Yes, Jane, thanks for taking my call. I`ve been trying to get through for a while.
Back when Jodi was on the stand, I`m remembering that the famous phone sex tape, that the judge allowed the defense to heavily edit it so you could only hear Travis`s voice and not Jodi`s response. And I thought that was heavily prejudicial against Travis. Why did the judge allow that? And I was just wondering if there`s any recourse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question, Jim. And I`m going to let Stacey Honowitz answer that. And then we`ll get to break.
HONOWITZ: Well, that is a great question, and we did debate it for a long time on your show, Jane, because it was edited to the sense that you could really only hear Travis. And it really put him in a bad character light.
I don`t know why. I don`t know how they went into court and decided which -- which portions of that tape were going to be played.
But if you recall at some point in time the prosecutor was able to put in the side of Jodi talking. So we did get to hear a lot of Jodi`s responses, her consensual feelings towards him, her wanting to have sex with him, kinky sex with him. So while we heard it in the beginning about Travis, we did hear Jodi`s side later on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "That`s so debasing. I like it." That is, I think, I think one of the phrases we will always remember from this trial.
And let`s remember something else. We don`t know what led up to that moment where she pressed "record." We don`t know if she said to Travis, "Let`s just let our imaginations go wild and say the nastiest things you could possibly think of to me right now." And we`ve got theories as to why she recorded that tape.
We`ll take a short break. We`re back with more on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. ARIAS: I introduced you to K-Y?
ALEXANDER: Yes, I had never -- I`d heard of it, obviously, but I`d never used it.
J. ARIAS: You know I had never used it, until -- and I`d always heard it until one day I just thought -- because it`s so cliche and people make fun of it, you know, but it`s great stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jodi faces heavy scrutiny while on trial for her life, but she isn`t shying away from the public eye. Oh, no, she seems to really enjoy it.
Through friends, Jodi`s managed to tweet from jail. She`s also selling the pictures that she draws for profit. But tonight we`ve got breaking news. We are learning those, quote unquote, "original drawings" might not be all that original.
Straight out to Alexis Tereszcuk, Radar Online, what are you learning tonight?
TERESZCUK: So the first picture is the hat series, and it`s a woman with a hat on. She actually has very striking features, which is a pointy nose. We actually thought that originally this was Jodi drawing a picture of Travis`s beautiful sister Tanisha. But it is not. It is actually an exact replica, a copy of Natalie Portman in a Miss Dior ad. And it`s a 2013 ad. It`s in print magazines now. So I guess Jodi still has access to all her magazines that she sent those cryptic messages to in jail.
And she also copied a "Guess" ad, as well. There`s a cowboy and a cowgirl. They`re in plaid shirts, and they`re facing each other. Again, a Jodi drawing. She`s claiming it`s her original art. Nope, it`s an ad again for "Guess," the wonderful jeans.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating stuff. Because people had been noting, love her or hate her -- and she`s definitely one of the least popular women in America right now -- people are saying, look, she does seem to have a hand at drawing. She seems to be pretty good at it. And -- and now we`re finding out that some of her productions are not original at all. They`re copied off of magazine ads. Who knew? Go figure.
Let`s go out to the phone lines. Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought. Christine, North Carolina.
CALLER: Hi, Jane, thanks for taking my call.
CALLER: I just have a question. It`s a question and comment that goes together. I have -- I don`t see any reason to have another Ph.D. come to court. I have the DSM-IV definition here, and I`ve got two sentences I want to read to you and your panel can debate it.
The first one is "frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment," which I think Jodi Arias dealt with, and especially with the Cancun trip coming up.
And the other one is, "transient stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms." I think she disassociated with what she did. She didn`t lose her memory.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Christine, I`m going to have to start calling you Dr. Christine from North Carolina. Should go out there and get your medical degree. Let`s debate it online.
I have somewhere in my papers here, they`ve got yet another motion. Here it is. Just got them hot off the presses. The defense gets its final crack at bat this week, and they`re going to bring in this Dr. Robert Geffner to not only try to knock out Alyce LaViolette and Janeen DeMarte -- sorry, he`s the defense, so he`s going to bolster Alyce LaViolette and knock down the prosecution`s psychologist. But he`s also going to attack the medical examiner.
So are we just wading back into this trial? Is this a crazy thing to allow right now, Stacey Honowitz, when both sides have had their say?
HONOWITZ: Well, we always said that she was going to let surrebuttal in. I can`t see -- she`s let so much in already, and I can`t see her not letting a death penalty case get a surrebuttal.
But it`s got to be limited. It`s got to be -- you have to be able to rebut what the -- what the prosecutor`s rebuttal was. You can`t bring up any new evidence. So they`re really going to have to be contained, and I don`t know how a Ph.D. is really going to counter what an M.D. has to say. He didn`t go to the autopsy. He didn`t perform the autopsy. So it`s going to be very interesting to see what the judge allows them to get into.
But as far as having surrebuttal, I think we all agreed on this panel that she was going to let it in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, listen, these other experts have been on for days and days and days. Drew Findling, criminal defense attorney, the judge wants to go to closing arguments Thursday and Friday. She has insisted after some inside baseball work about the jury instructions, et cetera, this new defense witness will have one day and one day exactly, Wednesday. Is that realistic, considering the others have been on the stand for weeks on end?
FINDLING: I think it is realistic, because Stacey was correct. It`s surrebuttal. It is going to be restricted only to issues that were brought up in rebuttal, not the actual testimony in the trial. What came up in rebuttal is what she`s going to limit this testimony to.
Now, this judge has really had an expansion policy. I was with some great trial attorneys this weekend, and all everybody is talking about is she actually let a cross-examination on Snow White in? So given that she lets you do cross-examination on Snow White, who knows what the heck she`s going to do?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I want them to bring in Tinkerbell, because how did she fly up and grab that gun from the top of the shelf without knocking over any of Travis`s shoes? Tinkerbell flying.
We`re going to take a very short break. On the other side, we`re going to continue this debate over what`s going to happen this week. The final chance for the defense to make a point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. ARIAS: When I finally came to, I saw that there was blood on my hands.
MARTINEZ: And you enjoyed the Tootsie Pops and Pop-Tarts. You think that the braids are hot, don`t you?
J. ARIAS: I think cute is more appropriate.
ALEXANDER: Oh, I love the braids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. ARIAS: And I said, "The only thing I`m going to be spitting out is the fact that you`re a pedophile with a past" or something like that. At the time I characterized what I saw as child pornography. But I realized it wasn`t child pornography. It was just a picture of a young boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nothing encapsulates the madness of these high- profile trials better than the Casey Anthony trial. Remember when George sprayed the protesters outside his home? Neighbors say the Anthony home and the site where Caylee`s body was found right around the corner turned into some kind of sick tourist attraction during and immediately after the trial. I know that because I was there and I saw it with my own eyes.
And now apparently the same thing is happening to Travis Alexander`s home in Mesa, Arizona. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve had people pull in our driveway and stop and park and get out and get their cell phones out and take pictures of the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does that bother you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That woman, who wants to remain anonymous, lives in Travis`s old house where the killing occurred, with her family, and she says more and more people keep showing up. Imagine how bizarre that has to be.
And honestly, she says she didn`t know. I think that`s totally irresponsible, to sell somebody a house and not tell them that an infamous killing occurred in that house that is going to be the subject of a murder trial? I think that`s super, super irresponsible, and I`ll throw that at Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor.
HONOWITZ: Yes, I mean, it`s certainly very irresponsible. And I don`t know what the regulations are for real-estate brokers out in Arizona, if they are forced to disclose if someone died in that house as a result of a murder.
I would think that there`s something in the regulations that makes them disclose things like that. But I`m sure it`s a horrible situation for them, short of "no trespassing" signs, to have violate and they go on their property, to have them arrested for trespassing. There`s really not much else they can do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s unfortunate. And my gosh, to realize after you`ve moved in with your family, that this is the history of that home, it`s got to be very unnerving.
Let`s go to the phone lines. Cammy, Kentucky, your question or thought. Cammy, Kentucky.
CALLER: Good evening, Jane.
CALLER: I have two questions I can`t get answered. Why did it take five days to find Travis`s body? And why did it take 4 1/2 years for the trial to come to trial? And thank you for answering my questions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you, Cammy, for asking. Jon Leiberman, as far as the five days, he had roommates, but they lived their own lives, and they were under the impression that he`d already left for the trip to Cancun, is my understanding.
A lot of people really didn`t understand exactly when he was leaving, and the fact that he had a trip coming up, they assumed if they didn`t hear from him, well, he was already in Cancun having this great vacation. What do you know?
LEIBERMAN: Yes. You answered that part of the question. And then for the 4 1/2 years, you have to look at the fact that, unfortunately, sometimes justice moves slowly. This is a death penalty case. Jodi got rid of one of her attorneys. And then there was another change with another one. So sometimes these cases just move very slowly because somebody`s life or death is at stake.
And Jane, I want to say one other thing about this salacious sideshow that has been happening, everything from what you just reported at the Alexander -- at the home that he used to own, all the way to death threats against Ms. Willmott.
I mean, it`s all of this is ridiculous. We have to remember that a life was taken here, and both Travis`s family and Jodi`s family have both been impacted. And that`s what we have to remember.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. My heart goes out to Travis Alexander`s family and also the innocent members of Jodi Arias`s family, whose lives now will be forever associated with this horror, her grandmother looking like she was just praying to God for deliverance while she was in court. It`s -- violence destroys every everything around it.
We`re going to take a short break. And we`re back with a preview of what`s going to happen. This is the most crucial week of the case. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. ARIAS: He wanted to drive up to the home. He wanted to get out of the car, have me come out of the house, give him oral sex, and he wanted to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on my face and then get back in his car and drive away without saying a single word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: This is not a case of whodunit. The defendant staged a burglary. She then went to rent the car, not in the place that she lived she went to another town 90 miles away.
The photograph that you`re showing me, she`s got black hair. When she came to rent the car from me, she was a blonde. Her hair color changed.
What about this gap where you sort of disappear? You`re supposed to be in Utah, and yet you can`t be found?
The reason no one was able to get a-hold of me was that it wasn`t charged up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had two small bandages it seemed like on one of her fingers, over a couple of fingers.
MARTINEZ: In the profile that`s developed, the DNA analysis matches the profile of the defendant. Yes, you are engaged in sexual relations in these photographs.
She killed him three times over. I thought this out enough to say, I`m going to take the gun and I`m going to take the knife away.
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I don`t remember bringing the gun with me.
MARTINEZ: Finished the job as if it needed to be finished.
ARIAS: So fun, fun; I`ll tell you about that later.
ARIAS: I have no memory of stabbing him.
MARTINEZ: She is the one that stabbed him. She`s the one that slit his throat. And she`s the one that shot him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you ready for closing arguments? We`re waiting on pins and needles for the closing arguments in the Jodi Arias trial which is scheduled just a couple of days from now. Ok, what does the prosecution need to do during those closing arguments to put Jodi on death row? We heard a preview during the opening statements.
Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: This is not a case of whodunit. The person whodunit, the person who committed this killing, sits in court today. It`s the defendant Jodi Ann Arias.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Remember, the burden of proof is on the prosecutors. So what are the keys for prosecutor Juan Martinez to get a conviction? We need to know what they need to prove.
So let`s talk premeditation. Jodi, according to the prosecution, drove 90 miles to rent a car. They say she borrowed and filled gas cans before the trip so she wasn`t caught on camera getting gas in Arizona, the state where she didn`t want to be seen in, the state where Travis lived. And she also changed her hair color according to prosecutors.
But maybe the biggest thing was staging a burglary at her grandparents` home where the gun that was stolen is the same caliber of gun used to kill Travis, a gun that`s never been recovered. Not to mention the sheer brutality of this crime.
Juan Martinez the prosecutor will definitely not let this jury forget the details of Travis` gruesome and bloody and prolonged death.
Let`s debate it. Expert legal panel, what are the biggest pitfalls for the prosecutor who we know can be very aggressive in court? Starting with Evangeline Gomez for the defense.
EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: His demeanor is the first thing. On cross, basically, he humanized Jodi Arias, and I think that many of the jury members still remember it.
Two, when it came to many of the other witnesses that testified on the defense --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean by that? Spell that out. Spell that out. I don`t know what you meant by that.
GOMEZ: Spell it out?
GOMEZ: He came at her like a pit bull. She looked like a victim. She cried. She looked like an emotional person. She was no longer looking like a robot, like a murderer, like somebody who was cold-blooded and somebody who could commit a premeditated murder. And I think that was one of the pitfalls in his prosecution. The same attack method he used with Alyce Laviolette.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. Leave pit bulls out of it. Pit bulls have done nothing wrong.
Stacey Honowitz, she is saying he was overly aggressive and then it actually allowed people to sympathize with Jodi Arias. What do you make of that hypothesis?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: I think it`s ridiculous, quite frankly. Let me tell you something. This guy was able to counter every single thing that she said on the stand. This guy was able to drag out lies from her. Anybody that thought on direct examination she was a shrinking violet, she didn`t know what was going on, she was post-traumatic stress, I don`t remember anything, when he got up and hammered away at her, as aggressive as he was -- and there`s nothing wrong with that -- she`s a butcher.
So what, is he supposed to handle her nicely? He was able to counter all of her lies. I don`t think it`s going to be a problem at all. They`re going to forget his aggressiveness in crossing her once he closes and shows all of the evidence that`s before them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: This man, Mr. Martinez, is speaking for the state of Arizona, for the people of Arizona. That -- and his style, he`s never wavered in his style. If you looked at the way that he questioned friendly witnesses, he was almost as aggressive with them. This is this man`s style, and what he did was meticulously bring out every single lie from Jodi Arias, from the seemingly mundane to the big lies.
And that`s what he`s going to do in closing. He`s going to say, jury, here are the pieces to the puzzle, here are all the lies that Jodi told you, and beyond a reasonable doubt she planned and then executed Travis Alexander.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this about closing arguments and opening statements for that matter. And I have sat in court and watched extremely intelligent prosecutors and defense attorneys make a mess of these states because they know so much about the case that they forget to really bring it home with a story with a beginning, middle and end that the average person can understand. And they use big words. They refer to evidence numbers. And it`s gobbledygook.
In closing you have to tell a story, and you have to more than anything else provide the motive, provide the motive for murder. I want to throw it to Drew Findling.
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, actually, that`s a -- you need to talk to some trial lawyers, they need to listen to what you said. I think that`s one of the problems that Juan Martinez has had. He`s had a blur of hostility.
We have to remember, as you just pointed out, this isn`t about us watching on the other side of the TV set. It`s about the 12 jurors that will decide this case. And you can`t have this blur of hostility. You have to hammer home the points that need to be hammered home and not yell and scream about every single thing that has to do with this case.
And that`s going to be the key to him because there`s been a little bit too much hostility about innocuous issues.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I think that you`re either a fan of prosecutor Martinez or you may think he`s too loud, but I know that he has a lot of fans. I mean people are just totally over the moon for prosecutor Juan Martinez; very much like as they were very supportive of Jeff Ashton in the Casey Anthony case.
Short break, then we`re back with Beth Karas who is in Arizona with the very latest. And boy, we have something for you. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I was very confident that no jury would convict me because I planned to be dead.
SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING JUDGE: "Mark my words, no jury will ever convict me." Do you feel that is part of a borderline personality disorder especially since she is smiling when she said it?
ARIAS: You can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are all over the Jodi Arias trial as it races towards its dramatic crescendo, but we`re also going to bring you coverage tomorrow in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case, the case that rocked the country. Did George Zimmerman murder Trayvon Martin or did he kill in self-defense? We`re all over it.
More on the Arias trial on the other side of the break. Stay right there.
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM: To think, this is how you die, this is it. I started weighing the odds, I`m like, you know, he may not kill me, will I be one of those tough people that`s like pull the trigger, you know, or whatever. Or will you be one of those people who talks like they`re tough. Just to see how you`d react. You learn a lot about yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a video of Travis Alexander at and Jodi is on his lap. It was introduced as evidence that where`s the secrecy there?
Let`s go out to Beth Karas, "In Session" correspondent on the ground in Arizona. She`s been covering this case from the start. I present to you the latest motion by the defense. They now want to it expand the testimony of this surrebuttal witness, Dr. Geffner to not only try to say well, she doesn`t have borderline personality disorder but they`re also going to try to revisit the order of the killing again? Are you kidding me?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: Well, from the recent filing, Jane, it appears they want to ask Dr. Geffner a couple of questions about incapacity if you`re shot in the head. What it will do to you, because he`s a neuropsychologist, apparently. I don`t it know if the judge will allow it.
The state has not filed anything in response today. Don`t know if the state will. There`s a hearing tomorrow at 10:30 in the morning local time in chambers. Perhaps this issue will be dealt with.
But it`s possible the state will say, uh-huh, Geffner is not proper rebuttal to a medical doctor. Geffner is a PhD, not an MD. But we`ll see. The judge may allow it if it`s a couple of questions because she may not want to create any possible issue for appeal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me also say this. One of the key things he`s going to it try to do is it say, well, the prosecution expert was wrong when she diagnosed Jodi Arias as having borderline personality disorder. Oh, no, indeed she is actually a battered woman suffering from post traumatic stress disorder.
Now, I want to bring in it Dr. Judy Ho. I think this is a really bad move. I think that Jodi could actually find her life spared if the jurors decide she`s mentally ill. So the prosecution brings on this expert psychologist that says she`s got a borderline personality disorder. There`s a tendency to say, well, then the person`s sick. They`re not as in control as somebody who is suffering from nothing.
Why on earth is the defense trying to knock down borderline personality disorder when it could save her life?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, that it`s a really good question. Borderline personality disorder has a lot of stigma around it. It`s not like depression or anxiety where I think most people would feel sorry for somebody who`s suffering from it that it.
Borderline personality disorder carries a lot of weird nuances in a person`s behavior. People who have borderline personality disorder, if you look it up on the web, are slightly narcissistic, they are very unstable, they can be manipulative, they are black and white. There are all of these things about that personality disorder that can make that person very good at manipulating someone else.
And so I think that`s why the defense is afraid of it, they don`t want to go there because there`s so much stigma around that the disorder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I can understand, but sometimes don`t argue for the sake of arguing. Honestly, even if the prosecution brought it up, it`s still information and I think she does have borderline personality disorder, and it kind of makes me, not to say sympathize, but if somebody is sick, if they`re mentally ill, that means that they`re not as in control as if they`re completely normal. And I don`t know that jurors might not have the same reaction.
And quickly, let me go to Evangeline Gomez on that it.
GOMEZ: Jane, you bring up an excellent point, but Dr. Ho is correct. There are some people -- there are many people out in the community who think that there`s a negative stigma associated with borderline personality disorder, that there`s somehow some kind of choice involved. It`s not viewed as depression.
But I do think you make an excellent point. There are some people out there who say that the prosecution basically handed this to her. And now are they going to get the death penalty for her if the jurors have to sit there and discuss, ok, borderline personality disorder is a mental disorder, like post -traumatic stress syndrome. She`s a battered woman.
These are the issues that the jury is going to have to struggle with, and are they it going to give her the death penalty because of this?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And more breaking news. We`ve just been told that juror number 8, dismissed juror, his mug shot has just arrived in the house. We`re going to show it to you on the other side and we`re going to analyze it.
Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him, following him and slashing tires and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know if he`s ever reported it to the police?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her name is Jodi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet of the Day". Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Kane, you are so Hollywood, making the scene. Willie -- he says I`m innocent and natural and I`m just resting. And Nelson says "I am. I just am. Look at me in all of my glory." Bunk says "Leave me alone, I`m napping. Can`t you see I`m napping?" We love you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: If the bullet wound was first wound that was received by Mr. Alexander, would it have been immediately incapacitating?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: And why would it have been incapacitating?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because of brain injury.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Check this out just in to our news room. There it is. He is the guy known as the CEO of the jury. Now he has a DUI and he was kicked off. Juror number 8, 52 years old. Out to Beth Karas, what do you know about his case?
KARAS: Well, it apparently happened last weekend. And when court had an in camera hearing early last week we saw a police officer from Gilbert, that`s a town -- city here in Maricopa County. We were wondering why is a Gilbert police officer was going into chambers, presumably to give some testimony or a statement.
Well, it turns out that is where the arrest was. We don`t have the police report. It has not been released yet. They say it won`t be released or ready for public disclosure until tomorrow. However, there are people who have reached out to juror number eight and he`s quite upset.
He`s been released. We don`t know the reason he has been released but I can speculate -- you know, the judges did not say -- but it does come on the heels of his arrest that it is possible Juan Martinez`s office will prosecute him or handle the case.
So this is a man who now has a case in the system, the same system where he`s going to sit and judge the credibility of police officers, whether or not he really believes Juan Martinez and what`s coming out of his mouth that`s the office that could be handling his case.
So it`s really a conflict.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Irony. Ironic. Dr. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, can a case like this drive you to drink? He was arrested apparently, purportedly for extreme DUI and 52 years old. I mean maybe the stress of this whole thing got to him?
HO: Absolutely, Jane. This is an incredibly stressful case. Everybody`s been there since January. This has been going on and on. The life of a woman -- I mean this is what he`s been charged with -- in charge of as a member of the jury. And so, it`s absolutely possible that he became really, really stressed out. I mean he has to be the person to make that decision and that is going to stay with him for the rest of his life. Who knows? Maybe he sabotaged his seat so he can get out of it and not have that responsibility.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, my heart goes out to him. Buddy, you know, we all make mistakes. And luckily nobody got hurt. And I can see you being super stressed out by this case.
And in fact you mentioned it reportedly when you were arrested. "I`m one of the jurors on the Jodi Arias case."
More on the other side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quick deliberation with our expert panel. Jury deliberations, long or short -- Jon Leiberman?
LEIBERMAN: I think fairly short. This is a conscientious jury that has asked a lot of questions. I think that`s going to cut down their deliberations -- two to three days I`d say.
HONOWITZ: I agree with Jon. The fact that they were able to ask a lot of questions really saved them from going back in that jury room and having to mull over a lot of things. Short.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez.
GOMEZ: Quickly. This is a jury that has been living this case since January. Most of them already have their minds made up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Findling.
FINDLING: I think they`ll take their time. They`re going to have to shed outside influences, they weren`t sequestered. They will take some time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we have three saying it`s going to be short and one saying it is going to be long. Only thing I know watching these trials usually all of us experts -- so-called experts are wrong. So we shall see.
We are back tomorrow with the very latest. This is the crucial week.