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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Video of Raid That Led to Capture of New Suspects; 747 Falls From The Sky; Gun Vote Follows Senators Home

Aired May 1, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks.

Good evening, everyone. Tonight exclusive video of new suspects being taken into custody in connection with the Boston bombing. Sound and pictures of the raid itself by SWAT team members. New details also of what authorities said the suspects did to help their friend, the surviving alleged bomber.

That and a phone conversation the feds say the dead suspect's widow had with him after the bombing. The question is, did she try to tip him off? Will it make her suspect number six?

And tonight you'll meet the woman who lost her mom at Sandy Hook Elementary. Now she is confronting lawmakers who say yes, they care deeply about what happened but voted no on tougher gun laws.

And later, what made this jumbo jet fall to earth? The video is hard to watch. It is incredible. And what can a pilot actually do when the plane stalls on takeoff? We'll ask a pro to take us inside the cockpit when things go terribly wrong.

We begin, though, with everything new we've been learning in just the last few hours about the bombing investigation, and there is a lot to bring up to date on. It all follows the charges and the court appearance today of three new suspects. Friends of the surviving bomber, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. They've been in custody since -- really for more than a week now. Two Kazakh exchange students charged today with obstructing justice and destroying evidence. The third, a friend from Cambridge, with lying to authorities.

Now according to court documents, one texted Tsarnaev just after the FBI released pictures of the bomb suspects telling him, quote, "He looked like the suspect on television." "LOL," Dzhokhar responded. Then later, quote, "Come to my room and take whatever you want." And authorities say he and the other two did just that. What they found and what they allegedly did next is potentially very incriminating to themselves, as well as their friend, Dzhokhar.

But again there is so much more we've been learning since their arrest just today. Susan Candiotti uncovered exclusive video of the raid that swept up two of them. Joe Johns has some eye-opening details from the court documents. Drew Griffin on specific items the friends discovered in Tsarnaev's room. And Gloria Borger on the phone, conversations the older brother's widow apparently had with her husband shortly after the bombing.

As I said it is a lot so we want to go through it carefully, step by step. First, Susan Candiotti.

Susan, you've got this exclusive new video of when SWAT team came to arrest the two Kazakh students. I believe this was on the 19th, correct?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It was on the 19th and this neighborhood didn't know what to think. Over my shoulder is the apartment that was raided. That's where the SWAT team came down the street here, barreling in with several teams, armored trucks, everyone armed to the hilt. And, of course, people started running and getting their iPhones and their smartphones to take pictures of what was going on.

I talked with a neighbor who showed us what he had.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Hands up, Dzhokhar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, do you think it's him?

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Put your hands up, and no one will get hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody stay there, OK? Do not move.

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, come out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do not stand up. It's OK, it's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, you are being arrested now. Come out with your hands up and elevate your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So Susan, they believe that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was in that house. He was not in that house, though, obviously, and the two Kazakh students were, correct?

CANDIOTTI: That's right. And neighbors here said that they had seen Dzhokhar here and sometimes the older brother here on occasion, too. And they saw them come out, the students, put in handcuffs, put in their skivvies, some of them, they were questioned, saying no, no, no. And they then took them away for the initial questioning. And then, remember, they were picked up, released, and then picked up again and held on immigration charges, violations of their student visa.

COOPER: I just want to see that video again, because at first it's hard, because the people taking the video are obviously talking. But you can clearly hear authorities say Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, come out with your hands up. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, do you think it's him?

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Put your hands up, and no one will get hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody, stay there, OK? Do not move.

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, come out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do not stand up. It's OK, it's OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And, Susan, why did they believe he was in that house? Do we know?

CANDIOTTI: Well, we do know this, that within hours after those videos were initially released by the FBI asking everyone to be on the lookout for them, we know from the criminal complaint that immediately the people in this house started to get nervous. The roommates, the friends, the students. And we know that within literally three hours or so, a few hours of those videos coming out, that on the Facebook page of one of the students who lived here, Dias Kadyrbayev, he deleted a photo of himself having dinner with Dzhokhar.

And then within 15 minutes of each other, both Dzhokhar and the same student Dias, according to sources telling our Deborah Feyerick, both changed their Facebook photos, Dzhokhar making his photograph black and white and the other student changing his to a photograph of him wearing an Iron Man mask.

Why they did all this, you know, you can answer it yourself, come up with your own reasons. But clearly, these were actions of people, at least of Dzhokhar, who is someone on the run, and now we know more, according to the federal complaint, what the students were trying to do to allegedly do, to ditch some of the evidence that was in this case.

COOPER: OK. Susan, appreciate that.

I want to move on to the criminal complaint Joe Johns has been following. That angle early in the investigation, Joe, there were reports that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev only found out about the bomb plot a couple of weeks before the bombing occurred. What we see in court papers, though, seems to contradict that, correct?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's true, Anderson. The affidavit essentially says that the two men from Kazakhstan got a hint, at least, of what was to come, probably several weeks before it all actually happened. If you just look at what we have up on the screen. Essentially, it said that Tsarnaev told the two men from Kazakhstan a month before the marathon that he knew how to make a bomb. So if that's true, obviously it wasn't two weeks, it was more like a full month all the way back into March -- Anderson.

COOPER: So that information, that's not coming from Tsarnaev himself. That's coming from one of these Kazakh guys.

JOHNS: That's right, that's coming from one of the two guys from Kazakhstan -- Anderson.

COOPER: OK. And the attorneys for the men are saying that their clients didn't know what they were doing. It seems pretty clear, though, that -- I mean, if this affidavit is correct that they were at least aware their friend was in a lot of trouble.

JOHNS: That's true. And there are several references in the papers to the idea that these men knew something was up, once the pictures of the bombing suspects were released by the FBI. The affidavit says Phillipos, the third suspect, stated that once at the apartment, he, Kadyrbayev and Tazhayakov, started to freak out because it became clear from CNN report that they were watching, that Dzhokhar was one of the Boston bombers.

That of course is important because the government wants to show that these guys are charged with an attempted cover-up and statements like that suggest they at least knew what the stakes were.

COOPER: And what they're alleging is that one of them texted Dzhokhar saying, you look like the bomber, and Dzhokhar said -- you know, LOL, and then he said come over and take whatever you want. And they actually did.

JOHNS: And they absolutely apparently did, according to the FBI. They did go over and took several items out of his apartment that would include a backpack, some Vaseline. It included a laptop. And the authorities essentially are saying, look, you know, put two and two together and it equals four -- Anderson.

COOPER: And is that the backpack -- have authorities found that backpack?

JOHNS: They have found that backpack and it had some fireworks that actually had some of the insides of those fireworks apparently taken out. So that certainly is important evidence for them.

COOPER: OK. Joe Johns, appreciate it.

Drew Griffin has been following one of the more puzzling citations in the complaint as Joe mentioned that they removed a jar of Vaseline from Dzhokhar's dorm room. Why would they do that?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Vaseline is an interesting ingredient in terms of making bomb. You would use Vaseline to prevent any kind of friction from taking place, which could spark powder. You basically would use this as an insulator between metal and in this case, perhaps, the inside powder found in a firework. So that's very specific to bomb-making.

And Anderson, I think that's telling in two different ways. Number one, it tells you that Dzhokhar, not just his older dead brother, but Dzhokhar, had some kind of proficiency in at least knowing how to put together bombs. And number two, it lets you know that at least one of these students arrested today knew that because let's face it.

You get rid of the computer, you get rid of a backpack with empty fireworks inside. Why would you then go and reach for a jar of Vaseline, unless you knew specifically that Vaseline was used in the process of making some kind of improvised explosive device?

COOPER: Now, Drew, do -- and we may not know this. From this affidavit, from this court document, do we know that Dzhokhar said to them not only go over and take whatever you want, but please get rid of my computer, please get rid of the bag of fireworks and this Vaseline?

GRIFFIN: We don't know that.

COOPER: OK.

GRIFFIN: What we do know is that one of the students, (inaudible), said in the complaint that the U.S. put out today that they also did take the Vaseline. They specifically went over and made sure they got the Vaseline as well. And that's why I say it's very telling because --

COOPER: Right.

GRIFFIN: It wasn't common to me to know that Vaseline was used when I woke up this morning in the creation of any kind of a device. But apparently it was to one of these students.

COOPER: And you know, we talk a lot about this in the last two weeks or so that bomb makers have specific signature and often they can kind of track down where maybe someone learned how to make a bomb based on what kind of a bomb they're making.

Do we know of any other cases of terrorism in the United States in which Vaseline has been used as a component?

GRIFFIN: We do. Najibullah Zazi, the Afghan American that is convicted of trying to lot -- al Qaeda plot to blow up suicide bombs in the New York subway, during testimony in his case, one of his co- conspirators was talking about how they were learning to make bombs at an al Qaeda training camp and it's in over in Pakistan and they had a list of ingredients. And one of the ingredients was Vaseline.

So we do know that it has been brought up, at least at one al Qaeda camp. There are some references to it online. Not widely known. And certainly not widely known how or why you would use that Vaseline. So it's very specific information.

COOPER: Also, Drew, do we know, have they actually found the laptop? Because I know they were searching that landfill and we believe that was one of the items they were searching for. Joe said they found the backpack at the landfill.

GRIFFIN: Yes, the prosecutors actually released, I believe, a photo of the backpack with the -- with the empty fireworks inside. But missing from that was whether or not they actually did find the laptop computer. They may have found that computer and just don't want to let us know that. Or maybe they just weren't able to find it.

COOPER: Right. OK. A lot just happened really in the last couple of hours. Drew, appreciate the reporting, as well.

Let us know what you think about the latest on the investigation. Follow me on Twitter @Andersoncooper.

Coming up next, Gloria Borger, on the widowed Tsarnaev, on the phone conversation that we just learned she had with her husband just as his picture was being beamed around the world and a manhunt was heating up. What did she say to him? That is critical.

Later, the possible facts behind the photos that American jumbo jet falling out of the sky, crashing. Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. We'll have -- ask a pilot what could have gone wrong and how investigators are going to try to solve the mystery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And new images tonight in the Boston bombing case, including this exclusive video obtained by Susan Candiotti, the SWAT team raid that swept up two of those three new suspects who were charged today. Now as you'll hear, the time, April 19th, police at first believed that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev might have been in that apartment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Hands up, Dzhokhar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, do you think it's him?

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Put your hands up, and no one will get hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god. Everybody, stay there, OK? Do not move.

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, come out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do not stand up. It's OK, it's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED SWAT OFFICER: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, you are being arrested now. Come out with your hands up and elevate your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Also CNN's Ashleigh Banfield has gotten ahold of a pair of photos of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and one of the three new suspects who is charged today, Robel Phillipos, and class pictures from the school they both attended back in Cambridge. This is a close-up of Phillipos. We don't know whether they were friends at the time, only that they had friends in common.

Meantime, federal officials say that investigators are very interested in talking with Tamerlan Tsarnaev's widow, Katherine Russell. Meantime, federal officials say that investigators may be very interested in talking with the widow, these are new photos, we should point out. Booking photos, mug shots from her arrest on shoplifting charges back in 2007. She is not, however, in custody now, as you know. Nor has she been charged with anything yet.

Authorities do want to know a lot from her, including a phone call that we learned about that she had with Tamerlan shortly after the bombing.

Gloria Borger has more on that. So what do we know about this phone call?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, my colleague, Deborah Feyerick and I are reporting that she spoke with her husband, Tamerlan, after these pictures were plastered all over national television. What we don't know, Anderson, is the exact nature of that conversation. My sources are not clear whether they spoke because she was horrified at what she saw, she was questioning whether this was, in fact, Tamerlan, or whether she was tipping him off.

What they do express some concern about is that she spoke with him, but apparently did not speak with law enforcement. Now, that's not a crime, from a legal standpoint, from a moral standpoint, you might think it was. And, you know, she remains a very, very murky person here. There is no clear picture of who she is and what she actually knows about all of this.

COOPER: Now her attorneys days ago, I mean, I think last week had said she's doing all she can to cooperate.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: Which sounded like lawyer speak. You would think that sounds like, oh she's cooperating, she's doing interviews with the FBI. But to our knowledge, has she actually sat down and done interviews with the FBI?

BORGER: Well, we believe that they've gotten some DNA from her. We're not clear about the extent of her conversations. There was a report in the "New York Times" today that she had been talking. But that she is, in fact, clamming up. And there's also, you know, different reads on her. I've spoken with a couple of law enforcement officials, you know, one of whom says you've got to really look closely at her, because we need to know what she knew, for example, about his trip to Russia.

We need to know what she knows about his affiliations, and it's hard to believe she didn't know anything. Then I spoke with another law enforcement source who said to me, you know what, she was the breadwinner in the family. She worked very long weeks. She wasn't with him all the time. And she had a young child. And there's a possibility that he was doing things that she didn't know about.

But, you know, bottom line is, Anderson, she's a very, very important person to them. And they need to get as much information from her in any way that they can. COOPER: What I don't understand, though, I mean, if -- if he -- you know, he's married to her. He leaves her for six months with a newborn baby.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: And she doesn't have any thoughts about what he's doing over there? I mean she must --

BORGER: Right. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: You're asking the same questions law enforcement is asking.

COOPER: Yes.

BORGER: I mean, he leaves for six months, what does she know about the people he was meeting with. What was the story he gave her about why he was going there.

COOPER: And also, if -- you know, there was a blog posting from a woman who used to get facials in their home.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: And reported that the mother was spouting all sorts of 9/11 conspiracy theories that the government was behind it. She said that Tamerlan had heard this stuff on the Internet so certainly the wife must have heard these theories, as well.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: And can certainly shed light on whatever evolution and character her husband underwent.

BORGER: And also what did she know about her mother-in-law.

COOPER: Right.

BORGER: Who is -- who is somebody they're very interested in. And what she knows about her mother-in-law's politics and her relationship with her son.

COOPER: It will be interesting to see if she does fully cooperate with law enforcement.

BORGER: One way or another.

COOPER: Yes.

BORGER: Yes.

COOPER: Gloria, appreciate it. More now on the legal angles for the surviving alleged bomber, the three new suspects and how the feds are making cases against any and all of them. We're joined now by Harvard Law School's Alan Dershowitz, author of "America on Trial: Inside the Legal Battles that Transformed Our Nation." And former Massachusetts homeland security adviser Juliette Kayyem.

Professor Dershowitz, this news first of all about the wife speaking with her husband after authorities had released his photo the public, naming him as a suspect, if she knew her husband was a suspect, and didn't report him, is she in any legal jeopardy? I mean, is there a spousal privilege?

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, there is no spousal privilege for protecting against a crime like this. And there is an old statute called misappropriation of felony that if you know about a crime and fail to report it, you're guilty of a misdemeanor. It's never prosecuted. It really all depends on the nature of the conversation. If she gave him any advice at all about how to keep from being be arrested, it could be a crime.

But if she just said, oh, my god, or something like that, knew about it, and failed to report, unlikely, but I suspect that the authorities are going to figure out some ground on which to actually arrest her and try to squeeze her and put pressure on her and see if she will cooperate more than she is currently cooperating. That would not surprise me.

COOPER: And, Professor, with regard to the three young men charged today with obstruction of justice, I mean, how do you see these charges? Do they seem weak to you?

DERSHOWITZ: No. The charges of obstruction of justice seem very strong. If they, in fact, received a phone call after the pictures were on television, and as the result of that phone call, got rid of very crucial evidence, including a computer, what could be more important? A computer which may have history of the past, indications of the future, contact information. They either knew, actually knew that they were obstructing justice or they should have known.

They were engaging in willful blindness. They should have not prevented themselves from learning. You don't just throw away a computer after a bombing like this when you see other kind of evidence, including the Vaseline. I don't think the government will have much trouble proving the kind of knowledge that's required for obstruction of justice.

As to the lying to the police and law enforcement authorities, that's always a hard crime to prove, because there is usually no transcript, no warning, most people don't know that it's a crime to lie to law enforcement authorities. It's often one word against the other. But it's a serious crime here. Not allowed to lie to law enforcement, particularly when investigating something as serious as terrorism.

COOPER: And Juliette Kayyem, CNN has learned that one of these Kazakh students, his student visa no longer should have been valid, he shouldn't have been allowed back in the country in January. His college said that they did what they were supposed to do in reporting, that he was no longer an active student. And somehow there was a breakdown at the federal level. It sounds like yet another case of maybe the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. So how it's supposed to work, and this is a lot of the post 9/11 architecture that was created, was if people are allowed in on student visas, there is actually no way that the federal government can keep track of all of them. So universities and colleges are under an obligation to notify federal -- Federal Immigration Services if someone has withdrawn, failed out or is no longer there.

So the question that sort of we have this period in December of 2012 of when was ICE immigration, notified. And why didn't it get into the system. And so that breakdown, if it is a breakdown, we have to figure out exactly when the school notified them. Because, remember, he returns in January of this year, 2013. That is going to be a key issue. But just to put it in perspective, first of all, his student visa was OK until August of this year. So it's valid.

But the other issue is, would that really have triggered anything. I know it's odd for people to wonder, well, why wouldn't that have gotten him arrested. A lot of people are coming through, millions of people have come through our borders every day and there are just priority lists if he's on no other list, but, you know, he extended his student visa. It's just one of those triage issues where, you know, you want to focus on people with records and stuff like that.

So putting both pieces together, it looks like we need to look at what happened in December of 2012 when he returns in January 2013.

COOPER: And Professor, we have this charging document today where a dinner about a month ago before the bombing, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev sitting there with these two Kazakh students and he tells them he knows how to make a bomb. When you hear that, what's your reaction to that? I mean does it -- do you think it undermines this notion that they had no idea what was going on until they saw him talking about it -- him on the news?

DERSHOWITZ: Well, it's not an independent crime. People would be surprised to know it's not even a crime to know that somebody is planning to bomb the marathon and killing lots of people. It's not a crime to just know that and not report it. You have to have more involvement to be a conspirator. But it does relate to their state of knowledge when they helped destroy evidence. So when they get the phone call, the knowledge that they had weeks or months earlier is attributable to them, and they had to at that point have a suspicion. And put one and one together and say, hey, wait a minute, are you asking me to dispose of bomb-making material? Are you asking me to dispose of evidence?

I think they really had very little chance of prevailing if they put forward the defense of lack of knowledge, based on this combination of circumstances.

COOPER: Interesting. Professor Alan Dershowitz, good to have you on. Juliette Kayyem as well.

For more on this story, obviously, you can go to CNN.com.

Up next, we have dramatic pictures of a 747 falling from the sky. I mean, it's just a nightmare. It's believed to be the plane that crashed Monday in Afghanistan. We're going to talk to a former pilot about what could have gone wrong on this cargo jet.

And the daughter of Sandy Hook Elementary principal Dawn Hochsprung is confronting lawmakers, face-to-face, who voted against stricter background checks. Tonight she tells us why she's going to the NRA annual meeting tomorrow and what she plans to do there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Now disturbing video tonight, possibly the final moments of the cargo plane crash in Afghanistan that killed seven American crew members. Now the video is apparently from a dashboard camera of a vehicle driven by a U.S. contractor.

We say apparently, because we can't independently confirm the video's authenticity. CNN has spoken with the driver of that vehicle. A warning, though. The video is disturbing to watch.

Chris Lawrence reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video is dramatic and disturbing. A 747 just stalls and falls back to earth. While CNN can't fully confirm how authentic the video is, it does appear to show a cargo plane that crashed Monday in Afghanistan. That crash killed seven American crewmen, including Brad Hasler.

BILL HASLER, BROTHER OF CRASH VICTIM: If I could trade places with him so that he could be with his family, I would in a heartbeat.

LAWRENCE: That's Hasler's brother who says brad's wife is pregnant.

HASLER: This is his daughter, Sloan, who is 2, and who we don't see in here is the baby that's on the way, who we expect to see in October.

LAWRENCE: The 747 was bound for Dubai, carrying equipment as part of the U.S. military's drawdown from Afghanistan. The civilian cargo plane was loaded with more than 60 tons of gear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Securing them is absolutely critical to safety.

LAWRENCE: Steven Wallace is the former director of the FAA's Accident Investigation Unit. He says there is no forgiveness in a plane's center of gravity.

STEVEN WALLACE, AVIATION EXPERT: Basically, there can only be so much weight at each part of the plane so it's critical that the total weight be within the limit and that the plane be balanced.

LAWRENCE: The 747 can take off a couple different ways. When it's carrying passengers, it will take 4 to 5 minutes to reach 15,000 feet, but in Afghanistan, there's always the danger of being shot out of the sky. So the pilots need to gain as much altitude as possible while they're still over Bagram. A 747 carrying cargo can reach altitude almost 2 minutes faster.

WALLACE: The typical concern with a cargo aircraft and that has caused accidents before, when the airplane has rotated with the nose up, the cargo moved aft if it's not properly secured.

LAWRENCE: Cargo is chained down, but if one of the chain attachments fails, it could shift.

WALLACE: We don't know that that happened here. That has happened in prior accidents then the airplane becomes uncontrollable.

LAWRENCE: Chris Lawrence, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Joining me now is John Nance, a veteran pilot, the aviation analyst for ABC News. John, it's good to have you on the program. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. I've never seen anything like this. It's everybody's nightmare. The plane looks like it just drops out of the sky and I just want to play the video for you, and if you could just tell us what you see, step by step.

JOHN NANCE, AVIATION ANALYST, ABC NEWS: Absolutely. Basically, what you've got here is an airplane that is running out of air speed, and running out of arrow dynamics. And you can see the high angle, which could be a result of cargo shifting as the gentleman from the FAA said.

If that happened, and it was out of what we call CG envelope, then at this point he is literally stalling, trying to roll the airplane into some latitude that makes sense. But at that point, you see the right wing. This is what we know to do in a large aircraft if we're trying to gain control of too great a pitch.

If it doesn't done soon enough, letting the nose come down and trying to regain air speed, you become basically 600,000 or 700,000 or 800,000 pounds of metal falling to the earth. At this point, the airplane is absolutely not arrow dynamic. It is simply a ballistic thing falling to the ground.

COOPER: And at that point the pilots know there is nothing you can do.

NANCE: I -- they would have flown to the very last micro second. That's what pilots do. By the same token, they would have known there wasn't a lot of room to recover. This is actually what we again call a stall spin accident. But there is no room really for a spin to develop. I think the pilot was probably trying to roll the wings over so he could get that nose down, but there just wasn't enough room, probably 1,500 feet. That's not enough for a 747 or anything else.

COOPER: You know, I've flown on plenty of C-130 cargo planes and they work hard to make sure the cargo is exactly where it should be on the aircraft, that it's roped down, you know, from all different angles. Do you think it likely that this is some sort of cargo shift and how much would it have to shift to make a stall like that?

NANCE: Well, I can see a scenario -- this has happened a couple times before in the history of large airplanes. Imagine a vehicle breaks free, one of the vehicles in there of its chains, hits another, causes it to break free, and you suddenly have got thousands of pounds shifting beyond the point of survival, so to speak.

The nose pitches up. The crew is desperately pushing the yolk forward, trying to regain control of the aircraft. And there's just not enough time and altitude to do it. We don't know that's the scenario, but that certainly is a likely explanation for what you're seeing here.

The fact is, they don't have amateurs loading these things. It's done very precisely, but they are restrained with chains and with things that tie them down. And those things can break.

COOPER: I've flown out of Bagram. You do have to, you know -- get up high as quickly as possible while you're sticking over Bagram Air Base for safety reasons. You have no doubt that sort of exacerbates a situation like this, the chance of a stall.

NANCE: Well, yes, it does. Any time that you're trying to get out of an area and get up higher than anybody can shoot a missile at you or shoot a handheld shoulder mound, yes, you're going to have a closer air speed to stall than you would normally do. It's not dangerous unless something like this happens.

COOPER: It's just sickening, terrible for the families for those on board. John Nance, appreciate you being with us. Thank you.

Just ahead, senators who voted against the gun control bill two weeks ago are feeling some hit. Erica Lafferty whose mom was killed in the Sandy Hook shooting say those lawmakers who voted no have some explaining to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want answers that no one has given me and I still haven't gotten them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: She is confronting them face-to-face. Also tonight, a new twist on the Benghazi terror case, the FBI looking for three men they say may have information about the deadly attack on the consulate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, in "Raw Politics" tonight, it's been two weeks since Senate Republicans defeated a bipartisan proposal to expand background checks on gun purchases. The 54-46 vote came just two days after the Boston bombings.

While the terror attack potentially drew attention away from the gun control vote, the fallout is starting to surface. Senators who voted against the bill are now feeling some growing heat from gun control advocates, including some passionate voices new to the debate for whom the bill's defeat was very personal. Dana Bash reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sandy Hook Elementary Principal, Dawn Hochsprung, was shot and killed in Newtown. This week, her daughter drove from Connecticut to a New Hampshire town hall to confront Republican Senator Kelly Ayotte who voted against expanding gun background checks, calling them a burden on gun owners.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just wondering why the burden of my mother being gunned down in an elementary school isn't as important as that.

SENATOR KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: I felt the enhanced improvements to our background checks system -- as you and I both know, the issue wasn't a background check system issue in Sandy Hook.

BASH: Erica Lafferty didn't just do this on her own, she was sent by the group "Mayors Against Illegal Guns," which help CNN get this footage. And CNN is told billionaire New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's well-funded organization also plans to launch this TV ad Thursday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Ayotte is giving criminals a pass.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's shameful.

BASH: It's just one part of a coordinated effort to use this week's Senate recess to keep the gun control issue alive. Despite losing a pivotal vote two weeks ago to expand background checks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The amendment is not agreed to.

BASH: In order to find the 60 votes needed to pass a background check bill, supporters need to change some half a dozen Senate minds. They're going after these senators, Republicans and Democrats.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Baucus, no. BASH: Montana's Max Baucus was one of four Senate Democrats to vote no on expanding background checks. A liberal group is trying to pressure him with this new ad featuring a gun-owning grandmother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aimed my handgun at the door, and waited. Guns can protect us, but we're less safe with guns in the wrong hands.

BASH: The NRA isn't taking anything for granted, pushing just as hard to keep those senators in their corner. Running radio ads praising senate no-voters like Ayotte.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's why Kelly had the courage to oppose misguided gun control laws.

BASH: But gun control groups insist, senators who voted against expanding background checks, widely popular, are taking a hit with constituents. A new survey conducted by a pro Democratic polling firm did indicate a drop in support for Ayotte after her vote against the background checks provision.

That same poll named Arizona Republican Jeff Flake, who also voted against the gun measure, the most unpopular senator in the country, prompting him to post this on his Facebook page. Nothing like waking up to a poll saying you're the nation's least popular senator. Going on, to say, probably puts me somewhere just below pond scum.

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COOPER: Dana Bash joins us live now from Washington. Will any of this have an impact, Dana?

BASH: It's really an open question, Anderson. I'm told that there are some general discussions still going on among some senators about a way to revive this. But, you know, a lot of that really depends on how successful all of this effort is during this recess.

Whether or not they can effectively shame these senators or convince them that the public opinion is really on the side of gun control. Of course, we see the numbers, but they actually want these -- want senators to feel it. I will tell you a Senate source familiar with her thinking tells me that Senator Ayotte is willing to consider an alternative.

We'll see how that goes. But the other thing I wanted to mention, though, potential problem, is that the Republican who was on this background check legislation, Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, he has consistently said since that failed vote he is done. He doesn't want to do this.

He said something very revealing just this week to a local paper. He said that -- admitted there are some on his side, the Republican side, who didn't want to go for this, because they didn't want to give the president a victory. We heard that from the president but to hear from a Republican like this is pretty revealing.

COOPER: Yes, it made a lot of headlines. Dana, appreciate it, thanks.

Leading up to the Senate vote two weeks ago, Erica Lafferty, Dawn Hochsprung's daughter, who you saw on Dana's report, lobbied senators to support the bill. She called them, she texted them, she went to Capitol Hill. She didn't get the outcome, obviously, she wanted, but she says she is not giving up.

Erica Lafferty joins me now. Erica, first of all, how are you holding up? It's been almost five months since you lost your mom.

ERICA LAFFERTY, DAUGHTER OF DAWN HOCHSPRUNG: Well, it definitely doesn't get any easier, but I'm trying to keep myself busy and just doing as much as I can every day.

COOPER: I want to ask you about your confrontation with Senator Ayotte yesterday. You found out she was having a town hall a few hours away from you. What made you decide to drive to New Hampshire, to the town hall?

LAFFERTY: Because I want answers that no one has given me, and I still haven't gotten them. And it was my first opportunity to, you know, ask the questions that I've been trying to get answered since I left D.C.

COOPER: What did the biggest questions you want answers to?

LAFFERTY: Well, primarily from her, she had mentioned when I was in her office the day after the vote that she was concerned about the burden that would be imposed on people who are trying to sell firearms, and I just wanted to know why that was more important than the burden that my family has been dealing with since my mother was gunned down, in elementary school.

COOPER: What happened when you asked the question?

LAFFERTY: The same thing that happened the last time. She kind of just trailed off and went into, well, I do support mental health. Well, I'm pretty sure all of America supports mental health legislation. It's obviously something that needs to be brought up. So I mean, she really just dodged the question, just as I had expected her to.

COOPER: You expected she would. You didn't think she would really answer.

LAFFERTY: I don't think she has an answer. I don't think that there's any way she could look me in the eye and justify to me why she doesn't care that my mother was murdered.

COOPER: You don't think she cares.

LAFFERTY: She voted that she didn't.

COOPER: You admit you were in her office before. What happened back then, as you said, the day after the vote? LAFFERTY: She went into, you know, the whole burden issue, and really just kind of went around in a circle and, you know, just saying this is what I do support, and, you know, not really giving me any reason why my mother doesn't matter to her, why five other educators don't matter to her, why the 33 people that are gunned down every single day in America don't matter to her.

COOPER: What do you -- I mean, if this comes back, if this legislation resurfaces by the end of the year, do you think it will be any different, the result?

LAFFERTY: When it does come back, I am absolutely confident that it will be different, because I know there are a lot of people out there that aren't giving up until this does go through.

COOPER: I know last month when a group of senators were threatening to filibuster the gun legislation, you took to twitter against them. And the tweet read, here's a picture of my mom and sister on her wedding day. I don't get one of these at my wedding in July. That's a pretty gutsy -- pretty, you know, bold thing to do. Is that something you get, you think, from your mom?

LAFFERTY: Absolutely, it is. And, you know, really, it was just pure frustration that my phone calls hadn't been returned and my e- mails hadn't been returned and, you know, that was my next option. When that didn't work, I went to D.C.

COOPER: And do you plan to continue to show up at town halls, at other events?

LAFFERTY: Without a doubt.

COOPER: I heard you may be going down to Houston later this week to attend the NRA convention.

LAFFERTY: I fly out tomorrow. I will be there.

COOPER: What do you expect there? I mean, that's -- you're going right into it.

LAFFERTY: I am. My goal is honestly to put a face to the name that people have been hearing. And I know they've seen pictures of my mom being flashed on a TV screen, but that's a little easier to dismiss than to have to look me in the eye and, you know -- I don't know. I'm just hoping that it will sway some people.

COOPER: Are you scared to do this or intimidated at all? It's an intimidating thing to stand up at a town hall and confront a representative or a senator, to go to the NRA meeting.

LAFFERTY: No.

COOPER: No?

LAFFERTY: I don't think so. I mean, I'm definitely not intimidated. I'm angry, and I'm disgusted and I'm disappointed, and I'm outraged and I want answers. And the gentle approach isn't working, so this is my option now. I haven't been left with any other options.

COOPER: Erica, good to have you on the program again. Thanks for talking to me.

LAFFERTY: Thank you.

COOPER: Just ahead tonight, new developments in the investigation of the deadly attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Welcome back, let's take a look at other stories we're following. Isha is here with the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, breaking news tonight, the Department of Justice has appealed a federal judge's ruling that lifted all age restrictions on buying the morning after pill with no prescription. The move comes just a day after the FDA approved making "Plan B One-Step," a brand of emergency contraception pill, available over the counter for females 15 and older.

The FBI has released photographs of three unidentified men allegedly at the scene of the U.S. Consulate attack in Benghazi last year. The men aren't being called suspects, but they are wanted for questioning. The FBI is asking for tips.

Anderson, a brawl broke out in Venezuela's parliament as tensions over recent disputed election results boiled over, way over, we should say. Two weeks ago, authorities announced narrow results in the presidential election to pick Hugo Chavez's successor. Some rough and tumbles there in the Venezuelan parliament.

COOPER: Yes, there really was. All right, Isha, thanks very much. All this week, we're trying something new in our 10:00 hour. One hour from now, we're having a lot of fun with it. Christiane Amanpour, Jeffrey Toobin, Amy Holmes are the regulars, the fifth guest is a surprise every night. Actress, philanthropist Eva Longoria joined us last night. Here's how it went last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you live in the public eye, public opinion matters. It matters in my industry. You need to like me in order to go see my movie. I need to depend on you to like me. So sometimes we walk that fine line of privacy and being completely open so you still like me. And I think we're doing a very good job of it because if you give people the truth and say this is what's happening, there is less of a bounty for gossip.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Is that true, or do you just feed the beast? I mean, if you give people a little, do you make people interested and then you know, want to pursue you more, or do you keep people --

COOPER: I think in Jason Collins' case, what you do is take away the gotcha.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: You're going to see more of who fills the fifth seat tonight in just over an hour. And just ahead, we'll have the "Ridiculist," find out who is on it. We'll be right back.

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COOPER: Time now for the "Ridiculist." Tonight a story from New Hampshire, a story of a man named Henry who dared to go toe-to-toe with a carnival game and lost, really lost as in his life savings. The game is called tubs of fun. You throw balls into a tub. What could possibly go wrong, right? It seems like it would be really easy. Henry certainly thought so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ball just bounces right out, you know what I mean? There is really no way of doing it, but when you're throwing it in at first, it difference right in. No issue at all, eight balls, seven mistakes, fool-proof.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Fool-proof until you spent $300 in a few minutes, which is what Henry did, and then you go home and get 2,300 more dollars and spend that too, which is also what Henry did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For once in my life, I happen to become that sucker.

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COOPER: I think Henry is being way too hard on himself. It's not like he left empty-handed. After spending more than $2,000 playing tubs of fun, he eventually did get a prize, a giant stuffed banana with dreadlocks and come on, how can you put a price on something like that?

Well, actually I guess you totally can put a price on something like that. For Henry, the price was $2,600. I know you're asking where can I get my hands on one of these sweet, sweet dread lock bananas and also how does someone lose so much money on the carnival game?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you get caught up in the double or nothing, I have got to get my money back.

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COOPER: It's the double or nothing. They will get you every time. This is why I always stick to the duck pond game, skee-ball, tilt-a-whirl action. So Henry is quite upset and says the game was rigged and was made all sorts of promises and really if you cannot trust the worth of some guy running the tubs of fun game at a transient carnival, what can you trust?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was going to get all my money back. I was going to get an Xbox Kinect and because I was keeping everybody's attention, they were still going to give me a banana. They lied to me.

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COOPER: They were still going to give him the banana. He thought he was going to win an Xbox. If only there was some other way to turn $2,600 into an Xbox. The carnival company says the game is run by an independent contractor, which is a fancy way of saying Carney. A Carney runs it. I guess they're investigating said Carney. And Henry may get his life savings back after all courtesy of an offer from the web site college humor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Collegehumor.com is prepared to buy that banana from you for the full price of $2,600. All we need is for 26,000 people to like this post.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The last we checked, that post on collegehumor.com was well on its way to 26,000, so it looks like in the end everyone is a winner on the "Ridiculist." That does it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, another special edition of 360, live edition with the round table discussion. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.