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Jodi Arias Murder Case
Aired May 6, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, verdict watch day two.
Travis Alexander`s best friends, Chris and Sky Hughes are anxious about the decision. They`re losing sleep over the chance that Travis` killer may not be convicted.
And you`ll hear this for the first time. Exclusive audio of Travis in tears. About how much Chris meant to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just grateful. This man is my salvation. Because I`m able to do a lot of things that I otherwise wouldn`t be able to do.
PINSKY: Chris and Sky Hughes are answering my questions and yours.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody. My co-host is HLN anchor Christi Paul.
Christi, thanks for joining us.
Jodi Arias jury has been at it for 7.5 hours.
And we`ve got coming up, Travis Alexander`s best friends, Sky and Chris Hughes. They will comment on never before heard audio of Travis. And they`re taking your calls, my questions, my guests` questions.
But first, we`re all pretty familiar with the term "reasonable doubt", but the jury has to decide whether Jodi Arias is a reasonable person. Which, I`m not so sure about, Christi. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
JUDGE: The use of deadly physical force is justified if a reasonable person in the situation would have reasonably believed that immediate deadly physical danger appeared to be present.
KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She was in reasonable fear that he was going to end her life. The state of mind of a reasonable person shall be determined from the perspective of a reasonable person.
This person right here, who has been an act, who has been -- who has been a victim of those past acts of domestic violence.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: And they said to you, the use of deadly physical force is justified if a reasonable person -- and they said she`s a reasonable person. No. There`s a naked guy in the shower. And this naked guy in the shower is mad at her.
A reasonable person would have just left. Is he going to follow her down the street naked? No, the law says a reasonable person. It doesn`t say that the defendant is a reasonable person. The defendant is a liar and a killer.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Christi, what do you think about that? I think Juan Martinez is on to something. That`s the way I feel.
CHRISTI PAUL, HLN ANCHOR: Wow, I would say that everybody I`ve been listening to Facebook and Twitter agrees with you. Everybody thinks he is definitely onto something.
I have a theory about this, though, Drew.
PINSKY: Please? Share.
PAUL: And my theory is this, at some point in her life, I do think something traumatic happened to her. Because I don`t know how could you do what she did to him and in any way, shape, or form be reasonable or not mental in some capacity. And part of me feels like the range she used, perhaps she used rage that she had held up in herself for somebody else partly when she killed Travis.
PINSKY: But, Christi, to allow that to be a defense for Jodi Arias is doing a disservice to people who struggled with these things on a daily basis, but don`t kill anybody. You have to be a special person, maybe not a reasonable person to go that far.
PAUL: I`m not saying it`s OK. I`m not saying it`s OK, but that`s my theory.
PINSKY: Your theory is right, except she had another layer on top. She had the part where she is goal-directed and self-directed and doesn`t really in certain situations appreciate that her actions are wrong. She thinks he had it coming. She`s justified. Her version of the world begs no alternative. And thus we have their situation.
Out there in Arizona, we have "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas who`s been covering the trial.
So, Beth, tell me something. Where is Jodi right now, and what are the attorneys up to during these deliberations? Are they by her side in or are they going on to the next case and preparing?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: -- the prosecutors in his office. Family members on both sides are waiting elsewhere about 20, 30 minutes away is my understanding, in hotels, with relatives. No one`s around except media and a couple of Travis` friends showed up later in the afternoon.
But Jodi Arias is back at the jail. She waited, though, all day in the courthouse for questions or a verdict. She waited not on the fifth floor where the courtroom is but downstairs in a holding cell. So she should be back at the jail by now.
PINSKY: Interesting. Thank you, Beth.
Joining us to discuss, I`ve got three attorneys, because this is really not a medical thing tonight. Three attorneys to help me, Mark Eiglarsh at speaktomark.com, attorney Leo Terrell and former prosecutor Marcia Clark, author of "Guilt by Degrees".
Leo, I want to start with you. I`d like for you to paint for us the situation with Jodi`s lawyers. Are they likely to be getting calls from her now? Are they going on to prepare for the next cases? Are they by her side? Are they grinding this out themselves, worrying about what the verdict is going to be?
What is an attorney doing during this verdict time?
LEO TERRELL, ATTORNEY: Whatever Jodi wants these attorneys will try to get. These attorneys have a financial, a legal investment into Jodi Arias. They`re focusing on this case and this case only, because, I`m going to tell you, Dr. Drew, that this outcome of this case is a game- changer, a career change for these attorneys. So, anything she wants, anything they can do, they are hinging on this outcome as Jodi Arias.
You can ask Marcia Clark that. This case is a game-changer. It`s international. So, it`s big.
PINSKY: I`ll ask Marcia Clark that. Go ahead, Marcia.
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: He`s right. Leo is right about that. We may not agree on very many things. But we do agree on that.
And for sure it is. Whether they`re sitting and holding her hand right now depends on what they`re allowing in the jail and that sort of thing, you know? I don`t know what their restrictions are.
But I do want to say this, Drew.
CLARK: What Christi said that, you know, a girl who had not been molested, abused or somehow, suffered some kind of traumatic damage in her life would not have done a thing like this. That is the mindset that the defense is playing to, that that they wouldn`t have -- she couldn`t have done something this horrific if there wasn`t something very wrong in her life.
And, by the way, that was the attitude, and that was the defense that worked so well for Lyle and Erik Menendez, when Leslie Abramson argued to that jury, hey, boys don`t kill their parents in this gruesome way if this wasn`t a horrific childhood. And she got a significant number of jurors to go along with that.
So that is the fear that they`re playing into that very mindset, that wow, something must have happened to her. So, she was a battered woman, because, after all, look what she did.
Personally, I do not believe it. I think it`s a really disgrace to the whole battered woman syndrome that they`ve been using. It upsets me to no end because it does tend to focus a bad light on a very serious and for real syndrome.
And so, but that`s the ploy.
PINSKY: That`s why I think many battered women are upset about this.
PAUL: They are.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Christi.
PAUL: They are so upset. I mean, I`ve been hearing from people -- I mean, that`s what my book is about. I`ve been hearing from people on Twitter and Facebook about it. They say, you know what? I went through this. And I would in no way drive hundreds of miles to go see a man who did that to me.
So, what I`m trying to say is I think something traumatic happened to her --
PINSKY: Christi, I think I have an answer. I think I have an answer. I think it`s in Mark`s studio.
Can you please cut to Mark`s studio? Zero in on his studio for me, please.
PINSKY: Mark -- give me a full screen. There.
Mark, the fog.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Yes, Drew.
PINSKY: What`s happening?
EIGLARSH: What are you talking about?
PINSKY: What have you done?
EIGLARSH: Drew, I`m just testing, I`m testing her theory. And the test, the past 10 minutes, I`ve been in a fog. And surprisingly --
EIGLARSH: No. No. I remember -- so far I remember everything. Yes.
PINSKY: Let me ask you something through the fog. I`ve got a -- I`ve got a Twitter from @lynettyspaghetti (ph). She says, "Oh, my gosh, Mark, Drew, oh my God, tell me why this jury hasn`t come back with a verdict. Are you kidding me? I feel physically sick."
EIGLARSH: Well, I can answer that. They`re not going to come back right away because their actions are going to be scrutinized. If they find her guilty too quickly, there will be criticism that they think didn`t look through all exhibits. They didn`t take their time and look through everything.
And also, there might be some who really just want to take their time. They want to make the right decision. Candidly, I think within five minutes, they all just laughed at this fog defense and just said, you know what? Should we come back quickly, or should we chill out and, you know, just eat their food for another day or two.
PINSKY: And, Leo, do you agree with that?
TERRELL: No. I`m telling you right now -- the longer this case goes, the defense has to be happy about this. This is a case where if this was such a slam dunk, we should have gotten a verdict a couple -- a day ago. But no, this case is going to go a little bit longer. The deliberations go a little bit longer and that favors the defense.
PINSKY: Yes. See, Marcia, you and I were talking in the green room. I kind of agree with Leo. I think this is -- it`s going to be interesting -- when we find out what was going on here, it`s going to be interesting, I think.
CLARK: Maybe, you know, Drew, it`s true, that the longer they keep them out, that means that they are giving them something to think about. And if they do go past let`s say Thursday, go into Friday, that means that there are some serious questions back in that jury room.
I personally think that they will come back tomorrow. And I think they will do that because that does make it look good. Mark is right in this regard. No jury that is on a case covered as heavily as this has been s covered is not aware of the fact that everybody`s watching and counting the hours and minutes and time they spend.
So, if they come back too fast, they don`t want to be that jury.
PINSKY: Thank you, guys.
I just want to say, Mark, be careful, there`s no telling what you do in a fog. You know what I`m saying? We`ve got a couple of cases we`ve seen where people do wild things in a fog. So, be careful my friend.
EIGLARSH: I`m sorry. Who are you again?
PINSKY: Next up, Chris and Sky Hughes. They knew Travis and Jodi as well as anyone. And they are sharing their insight together here for the first time. And later, you`re going to hear Travis tell us in his own words about what Chris Hughes meant to him. Don`t go away.
PINSKY (voice-over): Chris Hughes and his wife Sky. Few knew Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias as well as they did.
NURMI: Whose dress was it that you were borrowing?
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: His friend`s wife, Sky Hughes.
PINSKY: From Sky`s generous gesture the first time she met Jodi, to the moment they realized Travis was dating a dangerous woman.
CHRIS HUGHES, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: We were so freaked out. And we laid there in bed, my wife and I, wondering, like are our children safe.
PINSKY: For the first time ever, Chris and Sky Hughes break their silence together, revealing details not shared on the witness stand.
NURMI: If you were called to testify in Ms. Arias` behalf, would you be happy about that?
C. HUGHES: No, I would not, because she murdered my friend in cold blood.
PINSKY: That was a set moment for me in the trial.
Christi Paul my co-host this week. She`s, of course, HLN anchor.
We`re also joined by Marcia Clark.
And it appears that Mark Eiglarsh has emerged from the fog. Thank you, Mark, for hanging in with us.
Joining the four us, Chris and Sky Hughes.
Chris and Sky, thank you again for joining us. There`s a lot of stuff we want to get to today.
Marcia Clark was very anxious to talk to you guys. She asked us specifically, can I get --can I ask some questions. So we`ll get to her questions. But speaking of anxiety, you guys, I understand you`re anxious about what this jury is up to.
SKY HUGHES, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: Yes. Very, very anxious. All day.
C. HUGHES: Been a long day.
PINSKY: What are you afraid of?
C. HUGHES: Not afraid of anything. We`re ready. We`re ready for the verdict, you know?
We`re just -- I know they`ve got to do their thing, but we`re anxious for a verdict. We want to put this behind us and be done with it.
PINSKY: So when you say you`re anxious, it`s not that you`re anxious that they`re going to do the wrong thing. You`re just anxious to get it over with.
S. HUGHES: Oh, no. You never know. You know. You never know if they`re going to see, you know, what we see, and get it how we get it. You just I don`t know. You just never know. It just takes one person.
And, Sky, I know how ridiculous people are on Twitter. I know you cover your anxiety with that beautiful smile. And it`s not because you`re happy, because you`re nervous. Like a lot of people smile and some people laugh when they`re nervous. You`re one of those guys.
Christi, do you have a question for Sky for us?
S. HUGHES: Yes. I smile all the time.
PINSKY: Yes, I see that.
PAUL: You know, one of the things I was interested in, Sky, was I know that you said Travis didn`t want to break up with Jodi because she threatened suicide. And I was wondering what was it -- you know, you knew in your gut, you said that she was just manipulative, and she would never commit suicide. What told you that?
S. HUGHES: Just watching how she was with people. You know? She would manipulate Travis all the time by use of other men, saying these men really like me. He keeps calling me. He keeps texting me. He says that I`m way too good for you and that you don`t deserve me.
It was clear to me that, you know, somebody and I don`t know (INAUDIBLE) as you guys do, but tell me that talks about it that much and uses it to threaten just doesn`t seem genuine to me.
PINSKY: To manipulate.
S. HUGHES: Right.
PINSKY: Marcia, I want to give you your chance to ask these guys some questions.
CLARK: I love you guys. As a prosecutor, it`s very difficult, defense typically does go after the victim and they smear and they slime and say awful, horrible things. And having wonderful, articulate, great people like you to sticking up for Travis is necessary to give the balance and I love hearing from you.
So, I can`t resist to be asking questions.
Were you guys at Travis` house a number of times? Did you visit where he lived?
C. HUGHES: Yes.
S. HUGHES: No.
PINSKY: Chris, yes?
S. HUGHES: Chris had been there. I hadn`t.
C. HUGHES: Yes. He used to live in southern California. So we saw him a lot in southern California.
And then when I moved to Arizona then it was obviously not has frequently, but yes, sure.
PINSKY: But I have feeling, Chris, I`m going to interrupt, I have a feeling Marcia wants to ask you a legal question.
CLARK: I`m building up to it.
PINSKY: Yes, go ahead.
C. HUGHES: Oh, great. Go ahead.
CLARK: So having been to his house before and having seen where he lived -- no, no problem -- have you ever seen a gun there?
C. HUGHES: No. No. I --
CLARK: Had you ever known Travis to own a gun?
C. HUGHES: No. Never. And I love how Juan did that in the courtroom. Not only a gun, no bullets, no case, no sheath, no -- what do you call those things? Holster. No indication at all whatsoever that he ever had a gun. And I know him as well as anybody. And the guy didn`t have a gun.
PINSKY: Marcia, does that satisfy you?
CLARK: Yes, I knew it. I wanted them to say it.
PINSKY: There you go.
CLARK: Thank you, Chris.
PINSKY: Now, we`ve been having discussions about Jodi and mental illness. Chris, you brought up that already today. And now, here`s what the mother told the detective during interrogation. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MRS. ARIAS: Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time. I`ve had quite a few of her friends call mow and tell me that I needed to get her some help.
She would call me in the morning, all happy -- and call me an hour or two later in tears, crying and sobbing about something she didn`t want to talk about. And that happened constantly. And her friends saw it too.
And I had one friend call my in the middle of the night. And he even called a hotline for bipolar people. Said Jodi is bipolar and she needs help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, Chris, and Sky, I don`t see any evidence of bipolarity. I see all the borderline stuff. The borderline stuff showed up on those site testing.
What do you think the mom is talking about here?
C. HUGHES: Well, I don`t know. I mean, they obviously saw her all the time. And she didn`t have to play a part when she was around her parents.
We saw her playing parts, you know. We didn`t know it when we first met her. But as we observed her over time, we could see this woman is playing a part.
And just to give you an example. When you or I or any of us got upset about something and should be upset about something, not Jodi. Just flat. You know?
So she never went up here and just was excited and exhilarated. And she never came down here where she was showing range or anything like that initially. When we first started, when we first got acquainted with her. So, that was alarming to us because it`s like, no, you should be upset about that, whatever that may be that was happening in her life. But she was even-kiltered.
And we saw evidence of this on the stand. And she made these comments like three or four times like I didn`t want to be perceived as someone who --
C. HUGHES: -- or I wanted people to think of me as --
C. HUGHES: Right?
C. HUGHES: So that happened several times. That`s Jodi in her head playing a role.
S. HUGHES: She was always very calculated.
PINSKY: Mark, you have a question for our guests?
EIGLARSH: I did. Wonderful to see you guys again. Thanks for everything.
Chris, let me follow up to what you said on this show last time you were on. You had Jodi listening to a conversation that were you having with Travis, one of these like you guys flied to stop seeing each other and Jodi was outside the door I think you said. You were literally concerned based on her reaction.
But I never got to ask you, what did Travis say that you think Jodi might have heard on the other side of that door?
C. HUGHES: Well, Travis was just taking it all in. Travis was just - - he was there because he knew we had some things that we wanted to share with him. So, Travis didn`t say anything. He`s just sitting there, while we`re listing off 12, 13, 14, 15 red flags.
And we weren`t saying hey, you shouldn`t see each other any more. We were saying like you need to get out, like you got to get out of this relationship. And so, Jodi was outside this door listening to all the things we were saying, all these concerns that we had about her. That we were warning Travis about.
S. HUGHES: But to answer your question, Travis` response was that of disbelief. He`s like really? I don`t see that. She`s so nice. She`s so sweet. And I didn`t see what we saw.
PINSKY: So he was sucked in. Yes, he was sucked in to her vortex.
OK. We`re going to take a quick break here. Christi, I know, I can see your wheel spinning. You got a bunch of questions.
I want to get to my viewers to call in. So, call here, 855-373-7395, and give you chance to talk to Chris and Sky about Jodi and Travis.
And we`re going to talk about the police interrogation tape further.
And we`re going to hear a never before heard audiotape that shows Travis as the caring, sensitive guy everyone has reported.
Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DETECTIVE FLORES: I think you`re feeling the reality in the moment now.
ARIAS: No. I`m just feeling all of the things that I`m going to potentially miss out on.
This is a really trivial question, and it`s going to reveal how shallow I am, but before they book me, can I clean myself up a little bit?
FLORES: You`re going to be taken the way you are.
(END VIDEO CLI)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, HLN`s Christi Paul. She`s the author of "Love Isn`t Supposed to Hurt".
And, Christi, you wanted to react to something that Sky and Chris were saying before the break.
PAUL: Yes. It was so interesting to listen to you talk about how she showed no emotion. And she was so, you know, even keeled. And yet, here she is committing this most horrific crime that we`re all sitting here thinking how could you even do that to another human being, let alone somebody you supposedly loved.
So, Dr. Drew, I`m wondering how you would characterize her based on what we know and that Chris and Sky just said, that she never showed emotion and now all this rage comes out of nowhere?
PINSKY: Well, it`s a borderline range. And what she does is chameleon-like, in a chameleon-like fashion, adopts is around her. She sort of gives people what they want, what she thinks she want to see.
Cheryl Arutt, who`s going to be on our next segment, called it like being like jell-o. You`re looking around for a mold. So the people around here created the mold for the jell-o. And that would hold her together.
That was the borderline quality under which there`s a deep rage. But she also, we think, has psychopathy where she becomes goal directive. She sees know alternative but her own point of view. And she is capable of killing somebody without really feeling remorse.
Chris and Sky, I want to go to you guys, I mean, you hear her crying on that interrogation tape. I hear her crying about being caught, I hear her crying about all the things she`s going to miss, I hear no remorse.
S. HUGHES: Yes, Jodi cries for Jodi and that`s it. She cares about herself.
PINSKY: Yes. And that`s going to be --
C. HUGHES: We`ve not seen any remorse.
PINSKY: That`s got to be very disturbing for you guys to hear that.
S. HUGHES: Yes. Very much.
CLARK: You know, Drew, I want to point out one thing to perhaps make Chris and Sky feel a little better. When Nurmi, the defense attorney, said, you know, nine times -- nine days out of 10, I don`t like Jodi Arias very much. He made that remark because he`s testing (ph) out what the jury feels. No lawyer who believes that a jury is in love with his client, in love with the dependant, gets up to admit that he doesn`t like his client either.
The fact that he`s doing that is a very clear sign that he`s tapping into the feeling in the jury room among those jurors that they don`t like her very much. And he`s trying to get them to sympathize with him, you know, get on the same wavelength them. See, you believe me, because I don`t like her either, just like you.
If he hadn`t felt that way about those jurors, he wouldn`t have said that.
PINSKY: Mark, you agree?
EIGLARSH: Yes. I`ve only done that when I really can`t stand my client, and when the jurors probably can`t stand the client. But I want to ask you, Drew, Chris and Sky, the following question. Something caused Travis to send those e-mails that the defense not to wave around and say look, what a person he is, which we all know it got to the boiling point.
EIGLARSH: I`m trying to figure out what that is.
EIGLARSH: And I think it had everything to do -- just my theory, it had everything to do with that recording. I don`t think he ever consented to it. But if he did, I think she used it as blackmail or she pulls it out and says ah-ha, I`ve got you here.
I want to know what your theories are about that. What`s got him to that point?
PINSKY: Let me -- Mark, I`ll answer that first. I`m not sure the tapes were it, because they would have been saying in that e-mail exchange then, you hadn`t done that if these things weren`t around, I wouldn`t be upset if you hadn`t, you know, violated my trust like that.
Sky and Chris, you said in the e-mail exchange, he talks about revealing something about Jodi, and, you, Sky, particularly felt like that was the thing that sent her over the edge to decide to murder him. Do you have any theory about what that thing was that Travis was referring to in that email exchange that was so heated?
S. HUGHES: Yes. Mark could be right. It might have something to do with that, because she doesn`t -- Travis doesn`t really cite anything. And neither does Jodi as to the exact reason for this argument, like we`ve gone through them several times and there was just nothing that it pointed to.
So it very well could be that recorded call. It`s pretty obvious to me that Travis had no idea they were being recorded. But, yes, I think she might have been threatening to use it with Mimi (ph) or, you know, like to send it to her, I don`t think she would have threatened to send it to hike his church leaders, because they already knew everything that was going on.
So, it wasn`t like she was going to expose him in that way.
PINSKY: Oh, interesting.
C. HUGHES: You know, we can`t figure out what it is. You know, we had access to the e-mails and all the Google chats. And that`s the only sensible thing to us, because look at what he said. He said things like, you scammed me. You -- what was the other word like scam. It was like you scammed my.
S. HUGHES: You`re a fraud.
C. HUGHES: You`re a fraud. You hurt me worse than the passing of my own father. You know, worse thing that ever happened to me. Here, what`s interesting, though, is what didn`t come out -- and I can`t remember if we`ve already discussed this or not.
But she says in this exchange, I`m going to call my attorney, something to the effect that I`m going to call my attorney on Monday. So, in the midst of this exchange, and we`re like, what? What is she going to call an attorney about? Maybe it was because she recorded Travis without his knowledge, and he was irate about it.
S. HUGHES: Yes. We don`t know what she will bring to (ph) with the attorney. We done even know if it was Monday. She said she was going to call.
C. HUGHES: Right, right, right. Just another --
S. HUGHES: Yes.
C. HUGHES: Yes.
PINSKY: All right, guys. Let me get to a caller. One of our viewers, Jennifer in Texas, you wanted to ask a group of question. Go ahead, Jennifer.
JENNIFER, TEXAS: Yes. Hello Chris and Sky. I wanted to ask if you or your family were concerned that if she somehow got out on a lesser charge after murdering your friend, that she may profit financially?
CHRIS HUGHES: Yes. That`s -- I mean, it`s a possibility. I mean, she`s got huge ambition. And you know, she is the Jodi Arias and she has a high idea of herself and the possibilities in her life. So, I don`t worry about it. I know that, you know, if that were to happen, God forbid, that she were to ever see the light of day, that absolutely, she`s going to --
SKY HUGHES: Yes. She`ll milk this.
CHRIS HUGHES: Every possible way.
SKY HUGHES: Yes.
CHRIS HUGHES: Yes.
PINSKY: She has a manifesto we all need to read, don`t you know? I mean, Chris, aren`t you just waiting for that manifesto --
CHRISTI PAUL, AUTHOR, "LOVE ISN`T SUPPOSED TO HURT": Look at, I mean, look at Casey Anthony. I have to believe even if she is found not guilty - - and I personally can`t see that happening, but even if that happen, she`s not going to live a life. She`s not going to live a normal life. Look at Casey Anthony. She will still pay in some way for what she did.
MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: But you know, Drew, I have a question for you. That`s interesting to me. The manifesto strikes me as something very grandiose. You know? And doesn`t that fit your diagnosis?
PINSKY: Yes. I mean, to me, that`s one of the most telling aspects of this case is her point of view, which is everyone needs to listen to me. I have this superior intellect. He had it coming, don`t you know. I mean, the fact that she has the temerity to think that we want to hear from her in a manifesto. Come on, Professor Mark, let`s get all with things here and put her where she belongs, everybody.
All right. Thank you all. Thank you Marcia. Thank you, Mark. Mark, careful with that fog. You never know (ph) driving home tonight how that might affect you.
Next up, Chris and Sky will hear with the rest of us for the first time the tape on which, Chris, what was Travis says that Chris saved his life. We`ll hear Travis` own words. And we`ll have the behavior bureau weighing in.
And later, my jury is deliberating. Have they reached a verdict? They`re there. I`ll be back after this.
PINSKY: It is time for our behavior bureau. Back with this week`s co-host, HLN`s Christi Paul and Chris and Sky Hughes. They are Travis Alexander`s dear friends. They`re still with us. And joining us, Jenny Hutt, attorney and Sirius XM radio host, and Cheryl Arutt, forensic and clinical psychologist.
Now, everybody, we have exclusive audio of an emotional Travis. This is travis` own words speaking about what Chris meant to him. Let`s take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris and I were in the same singles ward. We`re both LDS, from LDS church. Anyways, I really liked the guy, knew -- like I said, knew he was doing something because he brought his posse with him. And I didn`t know much about it. And it was very broke. And, one Saturday night, I just couldn`t take it anymore to be honest with you.
I just -- I had $3,000 saved up, you know, that`s for kind of a rainy day. Well, a rainy day came. The $3,000 went and then another rainy day came. And there was nothing to get by on it. So, I`m on that futon you hear me talking about. And I`m praying to the Lord. And I said, will you please, please help me find something.
And I`m not a spiritual guy. And I don`t have a lot of quote/unquote "spiritual experiences," but there`s a voice in my head that day. And it said talk to Chris Hughes. And I didn`t know Chris very well, but I felt instant comfort. I`m just grateful. This man is my salvation, because I`m able to do a lot of things that I, otherwise, wouldn`t be able to do. And it`s not just because he was in the right place at the right time. I honestly think that we were prepared for each other.
PINSKY: Oh, Chris, that is just so emotional. That`s the man that loved you and whom you loved.
CHRIS HUGHES: Yes. It was an amazing to hear him tell that story. I heard that for the first time just about a week ago. I didn`t even know that that got captured. But, it`s really a beautiful story, because I was -- my business was doing great, and then it was doing badly when I moved to California. And I was just about as bad a spot as he was.
And I was praying for somebody like Travis to come into my life, and he was praying for somebody like me to come into his life. And, you know, together, we`re able to do something really, really incredible. But he was as much a blessing in my life as he indicated that I was in his.
PINSKY: And Sky, I see you getting emotional, too. It`s got to be deeply moving to hear these words.
SKY HUGHES: Yes. Yes. Travis was special. He really was.
PINSKY: Jenny, you have a question for my guests?
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Yes. More just a comment that I just feel so sad for you guys that this trial has painted or tried to paint just horrible pictures of Travis. And I just don`t get it. He clearly just was such a special, good, eloquent, heartfelt, compassionate, warm, open, honest guy. I just feel so sad for you two. And I send you just nothing but healing thoughts and only good wishes.
SKY HUGHES: Thank you. Thank you very much.
PINSKY: Cheryl, you and I have been talking about Travis and old Jodi for quite some time here. Does hearing those words shed any new light for you on the Travis that was being eviscerated in court?
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., @DRCHERYLARUTT: Dr. Drew, it does. I`ve seen glimmers of this in other places, too. But Sky and Chris, clearly, this man loved you, and you loved him. And you had a really special connection. And, I`m so sorry for your loss. And I just -- I`m so struck by the gratitude that comes across in this, that he felt such a deep profound sense of gratitude for your friendship and for opportunity and was a guy who wanted to make his life better.
And people who are capable of feeling that kind of gratitude, that speaks to their character and who they are as a person. And that really comes across here.
CHRIS HUGHES: That`s right. And it feels so good. I was just going to say that if feels so good to know that so many people, millions of people all around the world get Travis. They get him. They know the real Travis regardless of the smoke screen and the evil that`s been coming from Jodi`s camp.
PINSKY: Right. And Christi, we`ve had to fight hard through that smoke screen to try to figure out what`s what here. But I think -- I hope in the courtroom, Christi, that they see it as we see it. It`s just become increasingly clear to me as the case has unfolded. Do you think the jury`s going to see it the same way, Christi?
PAUL: You know, I don`t now, because think about it. We`ve been talking about this for four months, but the jury, if they`re following court orders, has not started talking about it until Friday. And then, they stop talking about it and had 48 hours to get it out of their minds again. So, they`re just starting to process that we`ve been talking about.
But Sky and Chris, I wanted to ask you, and I know this is a tough question, but I`ve heard you talk so much about how compassionate he was and how loyal you thought he was to Jodi. You know, you`re trying to tell him what kind of person she is.
PINSKY: Part of his faults was one of the flaws that she capitalized on.
PAUL: Yes. Exactly. So, I`m wondering, do you think, where he is now, do you think that he would want her to be put to death?
PINSKY: Ooh, great question.
SKY HUGHES: Oh, gosh.
CHRIS HUGHES: Ooh.
PAUL: I mean, we -- I know that you do. I know how you all feel, but you talk about him having such compassion for her. How do you think he feels about what should happen to her?
PINSKY: A great question. What do you guys say?
SKY HUGHES: Travis felt strongly about justice, you know? And he felt that when we do something wrong, we need to be punished and we need to pay the penalty for that. And so, I think, yes. I think he would want her to pay for what she`s done, you know, according to the law. I really do.
PINSKY: Chris, you agree?
CHRIS HUGHES: It`s -- yes. It`s a tough question. You know, I don`t know what it`s like over there. So, I don`t know. You know, if your heart and mind is changed. I don`t know exactly how that works. But, yes, I don`t know. Tough question. Great question.
PINSKY: It`s a great question. I think something for us all to contemplate. We`re going to go to a quick break here. And anybody just come up with any clarity on it, let`s please share it after the break.
Next up, Jodi`s on the record saying no jury will convict me. I wonder what Chris and Sky have to say about that.
But first, let us get a preview of "HLN After Dark" with Vinnie Politan and Ryan Smith. They are standing by in Atlanta. Can`t wait to see you guys` show tonight. What have you got for us?
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: All right. Ryan, seven and a half hours, no verdict. What is going on here?
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: I know. We thought. You never know what a jury`s going to think of.
POLITAN: We`re going to talk about reasonable doubt tonight.
SMITH: That`s right.
POLITAN: Is it in the air? Is it in phoenix? Where is it?
SMITH: Is it right here in Atlanta with our live studio jury. We`ve got two juries tonight.
POLITAN: Yes. Are they going to find reasonable doubt tonight? I think we`ve got some reasonable doubters here.
POLITAN: How about these folks?
POLITAN: In Arizona? Jane Velez-Mitchell with them and we`ll be asking them as well. It`s all coming up "HLN After Dark," top of the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING HER EX-BOYFRIEND: No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent, and you can mark my words on that one. No jury will convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with the behavior bureau and my co-host this week, HLN`s Christi Paul. Still with us, Chris and Sky Hughes were Travis Alexander`s great close friends. We`ve also got Cheryl Arutt and Jenny Hutt.
Now, before the break, I asked people to think about Christi`s great question which was, what would Travis want -- what would Travis hope the jury found -- would he want her killed, is the question. And Sky, you answered that, and you wanted to add something to it. Go ahead.
SKY HUGHES: Yes. The answer I gave before the break, that was the Travis, you know, that we knew when he was here. So, I don`t know what he would want now. I`m sure he`s different that he was -- when he was here. So -- you know, but that was what Travis want if he was -- when he was here.
PINSKY: And Chris, you referenced the other side, whether people would have more forgiveness or something. Is that what you`re talking about?
CHRIS HUGHES: Yes. Yes. I mean, who knows how things change when you get over there. It`s a great question.
PINSKY: Jenny, you have a question or comment as well.
HUTT: Yes. Well, a couple of things. I just -- watching this tape of Travis before, hearing his audio, I was just -- it struck me that he must have felt so conflicted because he was so compassionate with the stuff that you guys were warning him about Jodi and then listening to her bring him in and being compassionate towards her.
My gosh! That poor guy is like just couldn`t have been worse. And then I do -- and then I do have a question. Have you guys noticed since this high profile case, strange people you`re your pass coming out of the wood work trying to sort of watch and lurk?
CHRIS HUGHES: Not really. I mean, yes. I know there`s some creepy people out there creeping around and doing what creeps do, but I mean, it`s -- yes, nothing too weird. Not like that.
SKY HUGHES: Yes. If anything, we`ve been able to see the good in people like --
SKY HUGHES: -- supported the Alexanders and it`s just been amazing.
CHRIS HUGHES: We have been so inspired by how beautiful people have been, in general.
PINSKY: I`d like to try to get some calls. We got Diana in Oregon. Diana, go ahead.
DIANA, OREGON: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for taking my call.
PINSKY: You bet.
DIANA: Sky, Chris, sorry for your loss.
SKY HUGHES: Thank you.
DIANA: I would like to know what you think, and your panel thinks about this. I think when Travis sent his last e-mail to Jodi and called her a sociopath and said you are the worst thing that ever happened to me, I believe that she was in a rage, and she went down there premeditated to kill him and that she manipulated him into having sex, because she wanted to make sure for her own satisfaction that she would be the last woman to ever make love to him before she killed him.
PINSKY: As creepy as that sounds, my dear, Sky is shaking her head with a vigorous yes. I see Jenny shaking yes. I see Cheryl shaking yes. Something of that order of using sex as power and control in some sort of weird satisfaction in all of this.
PAUL: Marking territory.
SKY HUGHES: Dr. Drew -- oh, sorry.
PINSKY: Yes, go ahead.
SKY HUGHES: Dr. Drew, I want to ask you a question that kind of goes along with that. You know, with the borderline personality disorder, how does -- you know, what kind of reaction would that cause in Jodi for Travis to say, you know, you`re the worst thing that ever happened to me. You`re not who you say you are. You`re a fraud, like what would that -- what kind of reaction would that get?
CHRIS HUGHES: So, her gig was up.
SKY HUGHES: Like her whole world revolved around him.
PINSKY: Yes. It`s hard to know what she was -- she was probably -- again, her point of view begged an alternative. She just would -- could screen all that out probably. She`s literally could sit there with stars in her eyes still saying, you know what, I`ll go back up and there and have sex and we`ll be fine. We`ll be fine. Everything`s going to be great.
It really -- and think about fatal attraction or think about the way that woman thought in that movie. If you`ve never seen it, it was a good description, a good sort of rendition of exactly Jodi Arias.
Thank you, guys. Chris and Sky, thank you so much. We really do appreciate you joining us. My panel, thank you as well. Christi, you`re staying with me. I`ve got a jury next who reached a verdict themselves and they saw the real jurors today. They`re going to tell us about that. Be right back.
PINSKY: Time for Dr. Drew`s jurors. Back with HLN`s Christi Paul. And joining us from just outside the courthouse, Katie Wick and Stacey Fairrington. Now, Katie, you saw the jurors leave today. How are they acting? What did you observe?
KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": I was standing probably 15 feet from the elevators. They were chatty. They -- I didn`t see any dissension among the ranks, Dr. Drew. They all got into the same elevator. I think, perhaps, that they might have a verdict and maybe they`re going to sleep on it and wait till tomorrow.
PINSKY: Oh, interesting. Christi, you have a question for my jurors?
PAUL: Well, that`s what I was wondering. I heard Beth Karas earlier say, you know, a lot of times, maybe they will make a decision. They`ll go home and sleep on it, and they`ll come back. I`m wondering if you, girls, have any gauge, any sense of when you think they`re going to be-- they`re going to come forward with a decision. I`m thinking tomorrow maybe.
STACEY FAIRRINGTON, DR. DREW "JUROR": I think tomorrow as well. And I agree with Katie. When they came out, they did. They looked like they were kind of a cohesive group. And I think they do probably have a verdict. And I think some might want to sleep on it, some might want to pray on it, some might want to, you know, just really think it out before they bring this verdict tomorrow.
That`s my assumption. And I hope I`m right. I think the family and the friends and all that really need kind of a closure to this and I think we`re going to get that verdict tomorrow.
PINSKY: And I understand, it was like a ghost town inside the courthouse today, because everyone was out in the plaza. What were they doing out in the plaza?
WICK: Oh -- my gosh, Dr. Drew. So, I got here about 9:30 and I was freaking out. I was a little late. I was thinking there were going to be tons of people up there. There were four. It was myself, my friend Angie, Stacy and Stacy`s cousin, Cody. That was it. Everybody else was down with the media.
PINSKY: Trying to get on TV?
WICK: I was shocked. Yes.
PINSKY: And Stacey, you have some pictures, is that right? Stacey, you have some pictures --
WICK: What`s that?
PINSKY: Were those Stacey pictures we just saw? Is that right? OK. We just saw your pictures. OK, great.
Well, ladies, keep an eye out there. We`ll see if you`re right about tomorrow. We`re going to have to take a quick break. And I hope you`re right. For the family`s sake, let`s get this thing closed. And Chris and Sky were saying they`re anxious because they want it behind them. And we`ll have the last call after this.
PINSKY: Quickly, Christi, I understand you have a theory about why tomorrow we may have a verdict.
PAUL: Well, the only reason I think it might happen tomorrow is because what`s so rare about this case is that the jurors have gotten to ask questions already of so many of these witnesses. So, in a lot of cases, juries go back and they have to go through all this information they`re thinking about without answers.
PINSKY: They`ve already done it.
PAUL: This jury has already gotten some of them.
PINSKY: Got to go. Thank you. Tomorrow, an exclusive with Alexander`s first true love, and "HLN After Dark" starts right now.