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Arias Verdict Watch Day 2
Aired May 6, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case of...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The million-dollar question is what would have forced her to do it.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: The evidence is very compelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Yes, I did.
He body-slammed me.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: So he`s standing there and you`re down, right?
ARIAS: I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything.
He said (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you, bitch.
I jut couldn`t believe what had happened!
He went like that, and he turned his head and he grabbed (INAUDIBLE)
MARTINEZ: Ma`am, were you crying when you were shooting him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember.
MARTINEZ: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
ARIAS: I don`t remember.
MARTINEZ: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?
ARIAS: I don`t know!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Ms. Arias is guilty of any crime at all, it is the crime of manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state is asking that you return a verdict of guilty.
ARIAS: No jury is going to convict me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Jodi Arias slashes and shoots her lover, Travis Alexander, to death, leaving him dead in a wet shower stall, his neck sliced ear to ear.
Bombshell tonight. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. We are live, camped out here at the Phoenix courthouse, just behind me. As the jury deliberates, tonight we take a look at Arizona`s death row, Eva Dugan (ph) the last Arizona woman executed in 1930. Is Arias set to be the first woman executed in 83 years for the slaughter, the horrific slaughter of her lover, Travis Alexander?
Repeat, we are live and taking your calls. The jury has been deliberating over seven hours, nearly eight hours. So far, not a question, not a blip, not a murmur that we know of from that Arizona jury.
Straight out to Jean Casarez. Jean, they`ve been out 7 hours, 32 minutes, 59 seconds. If there had been a jury question, would we have been apprised of that?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": I think we would have because I believe they will come into the courtroom. You know, Nancy, I just came out of the courthouse. I watched the jury leave just minutes ago as they went home. I saw a different expression on their face, Nancy, than I`ve seen since January. They were focused, so intent. And I feel they`re at odds with each other. I just saw an expression on their face of, I could say, mild agitation.
GRACE: The jury has been deliberating for nearly eight hours. I want to go out to you, Matt Zarrell. Isn`t it true that we would know if there had been a jury question?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. The judge would announce there`d be a jury question and would respond in writing. And the attorneys would have a right to see the question and argue over it, as well.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. But we found out that over the weekend, while the jury may have been thinking about the murder one trial they`re serving, Jodi Arias has been tweeting.
Matt Zarrell, what do we know?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, to start it off, she starts talking about the prosecutor, Juan Martinez`s, lies. Now, this happened over the weekend. She said, "I wish we could shine a spotlight on all of Juan`s lies, lies he`s made on record over the years in a court of law." That`s just one -- one of many tweets she sent out this weekend, Nancy.
GRACE: It goes on and on. "Nine days out of ten. That sounds about right." There she is referring to what the defense attorney, Kirk Nurmi, said in the middle of his closing argument, that nine days of out ten, he doesn`t like his own client.
Now, here`s the one that especially caught my attention this weekend. "Commissary didn`t arrive. It`s like waking up on Christmas morning discovering Santa skilled your neighborhood."
All right, so unleash the lawyers. While the family of Travis Alexander is sitting in court crying, they`re just like -- their faces look raw from all the tears where they`ve had to look at Travis`s neck sliced in court in crime scene photos, she`s whining about the commissary.
I`m talking about pork rinds. I`m talking about pickles, pickle juice, cupcakes, cookies. Oh, yes, I have it right here, her entire list of commissary requests. So she`s whining about pickles and pickle juice, Renee Rockwell, while Travis Alexander`s family is crying buckets in pain in the courtroom.
Help me out, Renee. Why is she tweeting?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think she`s still trying to communicate with the public. The only problem is she`s not reaching her jurors, and those are the only people that matter to her right now. Her life stands in their balance.
GRACE: Really? I think she`s more concerned about her pickles and her pork rinds and her cupcakes and her cookies!
What about it, Jeff Gold? I don`t want to hear about her 1st Amendment right to tweet. The founding fathers didn`t mention a darn thing about right to tweet. What is she doing behind bars sucking down pickle juice, whining the commissary didn`t come?
JEFF GOLD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you and I know that she`s not tweeting. Her friend Donavan (ph) is tweeting. and frankly, those tweets don`t sound like...
GRACE: She`s telling her...
GOLD: ... the tweets that were coming before.
GRACE: ... what to tweet!
GOLD: And for her to tweet now those kinds of things seems ridiculous. I don`t believe she`s doing it.
GRACE: It`s ridiculous! OK, let me give you a news flash. She is, and yes, she`s having someone else do it, which in my mind makes it even worse. How many times have any of us sent off an e-mail, and you know, it takes 15 seconds to write it and then you immediately regret the e-mail? And here she`s talking it through with somebody...
GOLD: Nancy, they don`t make sense.
GRACE: ... and she`s still sending these ridiculous tweets.
GOLD: They don`t make sense. They don`t make sense, Nancy.
GRACE: They don`t make sense to you...
GOLD: If you think about what she`s...
GRACE: ... because you`re not a murderer. They make perfect sense to her.
GOLD: That`s true. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
GRACE: So let`s take a look back. This is what she`s doing in her down time, tweeting, "Commissary didn`t arrive, like waking up on Christmas morning and discovering Santa skipped your neighborhood."
To psychologist Bonny Forrest. I bet that Travis Alexander`s family wishes he could order, what, cupcakes, cookies, pork rinds. But he can`t. Why? He`s in a coffin, Bonny. To me, this is insult to injury.
BONNY FORREST, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I totally agree with you, Nancy, on two counts. One, I think she`s immature and she`s showing us that again. She`s totally in denial. But his family now -- what I would encourage them to do is really step back and try to distance themselves. They`ve been through a horrendous experience the last couple weeks.
GRACE: You know, joining me right now from LA, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. She`s been back and forth from the courthouse from the beginning.
Alexis, you managed to uncover another way that Jodi Arias is behind bars -- while we`re all worried about the verdict on pins and needles, what is she doing? She`s ordering pork rinds and whining that they didn`t arrive from the commissary. And she`s making money. One of those ways she`s making money is by her art.
But you uncovered her art is a fake, just like her. What can you tell me, Alexis?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM (via telephone): Well, actually, so she has been selling these pictures on a fan Web site that she says she`s drawn (INAUDIBLE) exclusive. The first one she called the hat series. And everybody was really upset because the first thing you look at in this picture, it looks like it`s a drawing of Travis`s sister (INAUDIBLE) That was shocking to begin with.
But then we realized it`s actually a copy, a tracing of a Miss Dior ad, a 2013 ad with Natalie Portman (INAUDIBLE) And then there`s another one where she`s copied a Guess ad. So she`s (INAUDIBLE) stealing copyrights of ads that have been published. People (ph) have reached out to these companies, and they`re hoping that...
GRACE: We`re showing that right now, Alexis. This is a hat photo. And you were saying you thought it was a relative of Travis`s, but it turns out it`s lifted directly from a Dior ad. Ridiculous! What`s the next one?
TERESZCUK: The next one is a Guess ad. And it`s about a cowboy and cowgirl (INAUDIBLE) Again, you know, you think, Oh, it`s a cute picture of a couple in love. But no, it`s an ad from Guess. It`s one of their actual discrimination. She`s taking the images from the Internet that are well known, one with a pill (ph), and she changes a little bit of color on it. But (INAUDIBLE) copyrighted materials that she`s stealing.
GRACE: And selling and making money off of it, some of these going for $1,000 or more. What`s the other photo that you had that you tracked down that she, in fact, did not draw at all?
TERESZCUK: It`s a picture of a mouth and it has (INAUDIBLE) like, a pill in the middle of it. And she changed the color of the pill to be a different color. And again, you know, it`s her stealing somebody else`s intellectual property and making money off it. Even though she`s saying she`s not making any money, absolutely not true. She`s making money on it (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Also, let`s take a look at what Arias is telling us from inside the courtroom.
Back out to you, Matt Zarrell. What can you tell me about -- we already know that Jodi Arias shot a bird at me from inside the courtroom. What can you tell me about her making a throat-slashing motion in court? And then, of course, there`s the instance where she says "bullshit" under her breath, but we can obviously see what she`s saying.
What is this all about, Matt?
ZARRELL: Yes, we just discovered -- this has just happened. It was during Martinez`s rebuttal closing argument. At one point, he`s talking about premeditation and says, Jodi Ann Arias intended to kill Travis Victor Alexander. Sure (ph) did (ph). Sure (ph) did (ph).
At that point, you see Arias is shaking her head no and begins to run her thumb and hand underneath her neck. And Nancy, the only way to describe it is a throat-slashing motion. Now, we don`t know if it was intentional, but you could see for yourself.
GRACE: So much has happened this day, everyone. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. The jury has been out now nearly eight hours.
Do I have Beth Karas with me yet, Liz? Beth, what can you tell me about the jury? We know that we lost alternates at the get-go. We`ve lost three jurors for other reasons. Who`s left on the jury?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Well, eight men and four women. There are a couple of young men on the jury. One in particular who sat in the front row. The first nine sat in the front row. But we don`t know a lot about this jury because the questionnaires they filled out last December have not been made public.
And the questioning in opening court in December focused on the death penalty and whether or not they could actually, you know, sit as long as April -- April 11th was the outside date originally -- and could they actually vote for death if they got that far. They were told at the beginning that there were several phases if they find her guilty of first degree premeditated murder. There are two more phases.
GRACE: Everybody, I want to go back to what we learned Arias was saying over the weekend, the tweets she is sending out. Liz, let`s finish up the tweets. We already know she`s whining about the commissary, this as Travis Alexander`s family is crying in open court. She`s whining she didn`t get her pork rinds.
What are her other tweets? Let`s take a look at what she was saying over the weekend. After the whining about the commissary -- let me see what else we have. Liz, can you get that up for me?
You know, Matt Zarrell, I also heard that she is tweeting about her artwork.
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, she is. She is tweeting about pen doodles and older artwork, again hopping (ph) out of her Web site. She also talks about a group prayer, and she makes it (ph), as she says, joining the efforts to support survivors of domestic violence. She is in the business of supporting domestic violence victims and is trying to raise money.
GRACE: You know, I noticed that she has a couple of locations that she claims that she is sending the money to. But Matt Zarrell, when you try to buy something off of the Arias Web site, do you write your check to the women`s shelter? Who gets the check?
ZARRELL: Well, it appears that the money goes to an e-mail that is not identified. It`s not affiliated with any shelter that we know of. We`re still trying to determine exactly where this money goes. Obviously, it doesn`t go directly to the women`s shelter, based on our research.
GRACE: So do they really think I`m going to write a check to Jodi Arias? Are you kidding me? And not only that, she claims that this is going to benefit battered women that go to the battered women`s center in Long Beach. Is there a connection between Long Beach women`s center and Alyce LaViolette, Matt?
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, she is affiliated with this woman`s shelter, and a number of shelters, but this one specifically.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: I thought you said your relationship with Mr. Alexander was very stressful.
ARIAS: Some of the sex wasn`t.
MARTINEZ: You say you have memory problems, but it depends on the circumstance, right?
ARIAS: Usually, when men like you are screaming at me or grilling me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not about Snow White.
MARTINEZ: ... speak to anybody involved with this fantastical tale.
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: ... that I couldn`t speak to Snow White, nor could I speak to the seven dwarfs.
MARTINEZ: So you are a -- a human lie detector, right?
LAVIOLETTE: Gosh, I didn`t think I was saying that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`ll call and she may say, Hey, you know, I really -- I read this really cool (INAUDIBLE) I`d like to tweet (ph) it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) person suffering PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking, would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Those would be different events.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Attorneys for Jodi want juror number five out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The court has denied the motion for a mistrial. Juror number five has been excused.
MARTINEZ: Show me the linebacker pose. That`s what I`m asking for you to do.
ARIAS: OK. He went like that...
KIRK NURMI, ARIAS`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not even about whether or not you like Jodi Arias. Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live here at the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the latest on the verdict watch on the Jodi Arias murder one trial.
As you know by now, that jury has been out nearly eight hours deliberating the fate of Jodi Arias, Arias charged with murder one in the slashing, stabbing and shooting death of her lover, Travis Alexander. Undisputed he was unarmed, naked in the shower when she unleashed on him. Her claim, self-defense. But when it all boiled down to the jury, they threw the whole bowl of spaghetti, hoping that something would stick.
They have asked for charges on voluntary manslaughter, which means heat of passion. They were in an argument of some sort when she did the stabbing and shooting, self-defense, which would be a total exoneration of Jodi Arias. Many court watchers stunned the jury has not already returned a verdict of guilty on murder one.
With me right now, a very special guest. Donald Trump is joining us, chairman and president of the Trump Organization, who got involved in the Arias case himself. Mr. Trump, thank you for being with us.
DONALD TRUMP, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (via telephone): Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: It`s great to hear your voice. I`m very interested in how you became so invested in the Arias trial. And you offered your own thoughts on the case, actually tweeting Arias she should take a deal.
Now, you`re the master of the deal. Give me your thoughts.
TRUMP: Well, it all began where -- first of all, it`s an amazingly vicious and crazy trial, and it certainly is interesting, I think, to anybody, including businesspeople like myself. It`s -- you know, whatever it may be, whether it`s -- we`re dealing with psychology, we`re dealing with a mess. And it certainly is interesting.
But as you know, a little while ago, it was reported that she was tweeting me or following me or both and following my tweets. And it was sort of interesting because I wasn`t tweeting about her until I found out about this. And then that became a big story, and I sort of -- I don`t know, I just got very interested in it. I watch it.
It`s somewhat of a travesty to have a person on the stand for many, many, many days. And I think she really loved being on the stand. I`m a judge of this stuff. But I actually think she loved it. And I find it to be an amazingly interesting case.
GRACE: You know, everyone, with me is Donald Trump. We are all taking your calls. He has actually learned that Arias has followed him and tweeted to him. And he tweeted back that Arias should take a deal.
Now, we all know Trump is the master of the deal. Why do you think Arias should take a deal? I doubt at this point, Mr. Trump, that anybody would even offer her a deal because -- you know, here`s the way it works. As you already know, you and I have discussed cases in the past, the prosecution may offer a deal at the beginning, basically, so as not to put the victims` families through such hell as a jury trial. But then once you prepare your case, you take it to a jury. You put up weeks of evidence, hundreds of exhibits, make your closing arguments. There`s no incentive for the prosecution to allow a deal at this point.
But what would you have suggested to her?
TRUMP: Well, I would have said make a deal to get out of the death penalty, for one. But I will tell you, with the jury being out so long, I`m a little surprised. It seemed to be to be a very obvious case. I mean, she`s guilty as hell. I mean, I don`t -- I can`t even conceive of what`s -- she lied numerous times. First, she didn`t do it, then she did it, then she doesn`t remember anything. I mean, you can only lie so many times. And she`s been out there so much.
And this would be a real travesty if something substantial didn`t happen here. But as you know -- and I think you may be surprised -- I`m not sure your attitude on that one, although I have been watching you, Nancy. But you may be surprised that the jury`s out this long. I would have thought it would have been a much faster decision than this. So maybe she knows something...
GRACE: That`s what I was...
TRUMP: ... we don`t know.
GRACE: ... just about to ask you. I was just about to ask you that. What is going on with the jury? I thought they seemed so grounded.
TRUMP: Well, I would have said that the jury would have been back fairly quickly with one -- and probably death penalty. I mean, you know, look, this was brutal, the extent of it, the shots, the many, many, many stab wounds, the cutting of the throat. I would have said that this would have been a very quick and very easy one.
But you look at other trials that have taken place, and whether it`s O.J. or others, and you know, you never really know how juries are going to come back.
I just was listening to your show and they were saying that there seems to be a little anxiety in the faces of some of the jurors, a little maybe anger at each other. That`s not a very good sign, I think, for the prosecution.
At the same time, I`ve been through many trials, fortunately not a murder trial, but I`ve been through many trials myself. I`ve had some where the jury comes back fast. That`s supposed to be good. And it`s not good. (INAUDIBLE) somewhere, Oh, gee, they`ve been out for weeks, and all of a sudden, they come back, and that was supposed to be bad. It turned out to be great.
So I`m not sure we can read too much into it. You understand that better than I do, Nancy. But I will say I am very surprised that they didn`t come back with a verdict.
GRACE: With me, an American icon, Donald Trump, who discovered that Jodi Arias is following him and tweeting him from behind bars. That`s what she`s doing. While we`re worried about the verdict and the victim, Travis Alexander, she`s tweeting and following Donald Trump. And he tweets back, "If you`re listening, Jodi, make a deal. The government should not -- no jury could be dumb enough to let her off, but you never know. Look at O.J. and others.
With me, Donald Trump. Mr. Trump, what was your thinking when you tweeted her?
TRUMP: Well, I was just responding to all the reports that she follows what I tweet and my tweets. And you know, frankly, I just again found it really very interesting. Also interesting. in addition to the things I said before, Nancy, are the memory problems. She`s got these incredible memory problems, and yet she remembers everything else. She`s remembering all of these facts, but she doesn`t remember the actual event. I mean, it`s, like, give me a break. It was just -- it`s so ridiculous. The whole thing is ridiculous.
But again, the jury is out for a long time. And that does not, I don`t think, bode very well for the prosecution, but you never really know.
GRACE: Jodi Arias, the most notorious criminal defendant since tot mom Casey Anthony. The investigation into the death of her lover, Travis Alexander, and its aftermath reveals graphic and disturbing details. Bloody crime scene photos, hours of police interrogation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I wasn`t there that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Even phone sex tapes. But who is Jodi Arias?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would diagnose Jodi Arias as the rare female sociopath. She has this superficial veneer of charm that is a thin layer over a cold, calculated interior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse trying to decipher what is going on with that jury. This is day two of jury deliberations. Conventional wisdom is the longer it goes, the worse it is for the prosecution. But let me remind everybody, don`t give up on Martinez yet. The last time a woman was sentenced to death in Arizona was 83 years ago. Her name was Eva Duggan (ph). She was prosecuted for the murder of a rancher, a local rancher. She was hung by the neck until dead. After that, they got rid of death by hanging.
The two women that are on death row right now, the only two women, Wendi Andriano, who was tried by Juan Martinez. The jury stayed out 15 minutes. She tried to profit from the death of her husband. And Shawna Forde. She was sentenced to death in 2011 for shooting a father, his daughter, and trying to kill the child. Well, she looks crazy. The child`s mother. 83 years since the last woman put to death.
What is this jury thinking? Many court watchers thought that this case is open and shut, but yet they have been out for two days of deliberations.
Straight out to you, Beth Karas, standing by with me. Also with Jean Casarez here at the courthouse. Did we get any word from the jury? Did anybody even want a soda? Did they want some Cheese-its? We know we didn`t get a question. What`s going on back there?
KARAS: You know, my theory, Nancy, is that jurors are just plowing through the evidence. They have all the exhibits, hundreds of them in the jury room. They have all their notes, 12 notebooks. Some took more notes than others. They have a copy of the instructions on the law. So usually when I see jurors want questions, they haven`t been able to take notes and they want readback of a witness`s testimony, or they don`t have a copy of the law, the instructions, and they want readback of some of the instructions. But they don`t have a lot of -- and they were able to ask key witnesses questions. They asked Jodi Arias over 200 questions. Maybe they have everything they need, and it is just a question of plowing through the evidence and maybe convincing one or two people.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Renee Rockwell. Here with us in Arizona, Jeff Gold, both veteran defense attorneys. You know, Renee, you and I tried cases in the same courthouse for many, many years. I always like it when I get a jury question, because it tells me which way the jury is leaning. For instance, if you get a question from this jury that says, what is the definition of simple battery? You know it has all gone down straight down the crapper. OK? That is a sign. But when the jury goes back there and holes up and you don`t hear anything from them for two days, you know, typically the conventional wisdom is the longer it goes, the worse it is for the state. Why is that?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, Nancy, this was a 52-day trial. And I like to think that a jury would stay out at least one hour per day. What does it make it? 52 hours? Maybe that`s a little long but- -
GRACE: Did you just dream that up on your way to the studio? Where did you get that, one hour a day? It`s like you`re making Minute rice (ph). A cup of rice, a cup of water.
ROCKWELL: You want a jury to be responsible and to go through all of the evidence. Your prosecutor has been looking at them and he needs to convince all 12 of them. The defense attorney, Nancy, just needs one of them. And you can imagine what they might be doing back there.
GRACE: Jeff Gold, weigh in.
JEFF GOLD, ATTORNEY: In a media case, they`re going to stay out three to five days, Nancy. I don`t think if your viewers are looking for a conviction, they`re going to be disappointed. I think in a media case if they would have come--
GRACE: I have never had a jury stay out five days.
GOLD: Well, this is a big case.
GRACE: Maybe that`s one of your cases, but I never had a jury stay out five days.
ROCKWELL: Oh, Nancy, this jury is going to stay out at least five days.
GOLD: I agree. I agree, Nancy.
GRACE: Did you people not just hear Donald Trump? He and I are both shocked they have been out this long. The guy is unarmed, he is in the shower. He is naked, he`s dripping wet. What did he do, shout at her? He got all shouty and screamy, so she stabbed him to death? Let me go out to the lines.
GOLD: We`re all talking about this case.
GRACE: So? Kristin in California. Hi, dear, what is your question?
CALLER: Hello, beautiful mother of twins. I have been waiting years to talk to you. So I`m going to do this in 30 seconds or less. A few comments and I am going to end it with two questions. No. 1, I love your necklace collection. No. 2, in the seriousness of this, you made me laugh with that Southern twang how you said it that the defense witness burped, I really laughed at that.
And after no apology from Jodi in court, these tweets, her rare emotions, it just shows that she is a manipulator and she doesn`t ever deserve to have a free life, because she is going to do it again.
And my two questions. How long did the Casey Anthony jury take to come back with their decision? And in your heart of hearts, Nancy, my final question, are you worried that this is taking more than one day?
GRACE: OK, in my heart of hearts, yes, I am worried. But I was always worried with every case I ever tried when the jury would stay out overnight. I would be very, very worried. Of course, there was one time we starved the jury into a verdict. It was midnight. They said they wanted to keep deliberating. I finally -- there you go, 10 hours 40 minutes for that big fat not guilty.
And I remember walking -- let`s see some other high-profile jury deliberation times, Liz. I remember walking back into the courtroom. The judge was there. The defense was there, everybody was waiting. Simpson, less than four hours. They had their bags packed that morning before they gave the verdict. And I said, for Pete`s sakes, can we at least order the jury a pizza? Scott Peterson -- seven days. Right as I said the word pizza, it was midnight. We heard the jury came back with a verdict.
Everybody, when we get back, I`m going to have a very dear friend of Travis Alexander`s, Michael Hughes, with us taking your calls. But I want to remind you, Amanda Knox, tried for the murder of her 21-year-old British roommate, CNN`s Chris Cuomo interviews Knox. It`s titled "Amanda Knox: The Unanswered Questions," Tuesday night 10:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTINEZ: Premeditation means that Jodi Arias killed Travis Victor Alexander.
ARIAS: My nerves -- kind of like how a chihuahua shakes. Kind of tremble a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury in the Jodi Arias trial is discussing her fate.
ARIAS: Reality set in. It was more like facing me squarely.
MARTINEZ: Return a verdict of guilty as to first-degree murder.
ARIAS: Uncomfortable, like nervous, like your nerves are starting to just get to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pay the price.
ARIAS: What is the price?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi`s fate is in the hands of the jury.
ARIAS: I wish it was just a nightmare that I could wake up from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are in a verdict watch here at HLN. We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse hoping for a verdict. The jury has now deliberated nearly eight hours, and we are taking your calls. Also with me taking your calls, Michael Hughes, a friend of Travis, knows Jodi Arias, as well.
Michael, thank you for being with us. According to you, you saw the Arias family laughing in open court at a very unusual moment. Michael, what did you observe?
MICHAEL HUGHES, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, I wasn`t able to sit on the Alexander side. I wind up getting the lot (ph) of the first day. And so I had to sit right behind the Arias family, and I was directly in line with Jodi and her mother and aunt. And when they put up the most gruesome picture of the autopsy picture of Travis` throat being slit, the family looked at each other and started to laugh. And I couldn`t believe my eyes. It was so disgusting to be -- I was very uncomfortable sitting on that side anyway, but the fact that I saw this callous remark was unbelievable. It was just absolutely deplorable.
GRACE: Michael Hughes, friend of Travis Alexander, also knows Jodi Arias, says that the Arias family for some reason was laughing when very upsetting photos of Travis in death were put up in the courtroom. He is not saying that necessarily they were laughing at the photo, but they were in court laughing when that photo was displayed. So either they were laughing at the photo or laughing at something else at a very inappropriate time.
HUGHES: Right. Listen, it doesn`t matter which side you are on, it doesn`t matter what you are there in that courtroom for, when they show the most gruesome photo, you don`t laugh. There is -- period. It is very inappropriate. And so I was just blown away. I couldn`t believe that. And that is not the only time, Nancy. There was another time another family member when there was a sexual comment that was made about left hands and right hands, where another family member looked over at another one and also made a giggle about it. Again, it`s just so callous and so disgusting. I just can`t believe it.
GRACE: Another Arias family member made a snide comment?
GRACE: What was that?
HUGHES: Well, I couldn`t hear it. I was literally right behind them. There was nobody between me and their family. And -- but it was more of a smirk and a giggle about it. It was so immediate after the comment from Juan Martinez that you would think it was directly related to his comment. But again, it`s like you got to know when you are going to have -- whether it be a side conversation or whether it be directly related to the comments that are being made in court, you got to know when that is not appropriate to do that type of behavior.
GRACE: And Michael Hughes, everyone, friend of Travis, knows Arias, as well, was sitting directly behind the Arias family when he saw all of this at one juncture. Question, Michael, you called Arias right as everyone was finding out about Travis` death. What happened?
HUGHES: You know, I got a text from some of my brothers in Cancun. And all it said was Travis was found dead. I wanted to find out obviously more details. I started calling everyone. I could not get a hold of them in Cancun. So I wind up -- the very first person I wind up getting a hold of was Jodi, and the lies started there. She had it scripted it out. She knew what it was about. I started drilling her and asking her questions. Was it a murder, was it a homicide? She was like, I don`t know, I don`t know. She was crying hysterically on the phone. And I said, you know what, obviously Dave Hall (ph) knows more than you, which is a good friend of ours. He was about ready to board on the plane to Cancun. I got him on the phone on a conference call with Jodi. And as soon as he started talking, I said by the way, Jodi is on the phone. He said, hey, Jodi, hold on a second. He texts me and he said you are on the phone with the No. 1 suspect. I immediately hung up with Jodi and I called Dave back and I wind up getting the details from him.
And he told me, yes, everyone thinks it is Jodi. And so it was very shocking, to be able to think that I was talking to the person who killed my very good friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: He said f-ing kill you, bitch. I don`t remember a lot after that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you explain the bloody (inaudible) and the bloody palm print on the wall?
ARIAS: Well, based on logic, it would be how we fought. I don`t know how things ended up the way they ended up. I do know that we struggled that day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you decide to tell the truth if you never got arrested?
ARIAS: I honestly don`t know the answer to that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are in a verdict watch here at HLN, bringing you the latest from this Phoenix courthouse. The jury`s been deliberating about eight hours now. No verdict yet. What`s going on? This has spread out over two days. Not a peep from the jury, not a question, not a request. They don`t want a read back of testimony, they don`t want a clarification of a jury instruction, they don`t want a closer look at an exhibit. They don`t want a Diet Pepsi or a Diet Coke. They don`t want Cheez-its. They don`t want chips. What are they doing back there, all holed up, without a single murmur?
Take a look at what we know that the jury doesn`t know. Evidence kept secret from the jury. Well, the interrogation tape. The interrogation tape of Jodi Arias fixing her hair. Wouldn`t you think she`d be a little concerned about the murder charge? Doing handstands? Singing behind bars? Digging through trash? Singing in jail? You can never forget Jodi Arias winning "American Idol" behind bars.
The fact that Travis Alexander and his girlfriend`s tires were slashed repeatedly, the letters that Jodi Arias claims came from Travis, painting him in a horrible light, that Arias sent her mom to "The National Enquirer" to publish and sell the letters. This is topping the list. Jodi Arias begged to plead guilty to second-degree murder. She begged to plead guilty to murder two, but is now claiming she is not guilty, that she confronted friends and other women connected to Arias, connected to Travis in jealous rages. The shameful whore e-mail she sent to Lisa Andrews. The gun, bullets, rental car, all ready to go the morning she was arrested. What a twist of justice that we know this, but the jury doesn`t.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine First Lieutenant, Scott Fleming, 24, Marietta, Georgia. Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal. Parents Joseph and Joanne. Sister Andrea. Scott Fleming, American hero.
And now back to the Jodi Arias murder one trial. We are in a verdict watch. The family of Travis Alexander going in and out of that courthouse, soldiering on. Very often you see them with their eyes red, their nose red from crying, waiting for the jury to return a verdict.
You know, you`d think Arias would be worried about Travis Alexander`s family or the death penalty for herself. But we learn she tweeted all weekend, including tweets about how disappointed and irritated she was that she didn`t get her commissary order. She specifically wants pork rinds, cookies, cupcakes, sausage chub. Matt Zarrell, what is a sausage chub, dare I ask?
ZARRELL: Nancy, it`s what I can describe as a cylindrical -- like you would buy salami in a grocery store. It`s a cylindrical--
GRACE: You mean cylindrical? All right, so it`s all right, a sausage chub. Awesome fruit nuggets. Sodas, danish. Pickles. Pickle juice. This is what she is complaining about. That she can`t get her danish and her pickle juice behind bars. When Travis Alexander`s family is openly crying in court. They walk out, single file, one behind the other. As they`re waiting for this jury to do the right thing.
The jury has gone home for the day. Their deliberations done. They`ll be back in the morning. Everybody, as we go to break, it`s the end of a special Mother`s Day contest to win tee shirts and the handcuff necklace last spotted with Anderson Cooper. Proceeds from these go to help missing and abused children. Go to nancygrace.com and win that necklace.
Dr. Drew up next, everybody. The jury is home for the day. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.