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Arias Verdict Watch; Missing Women Found Alive
Aired May 7, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias verdict watch day three. The woman who came before Jodi, the woman who made her jealous. Friends say she was Travis Alexander`s first true love and knew Travis better than anybody.
Deanna Reid is here with us. Her first interview since she was on the stand. She`s got stories you`ll hear that the jury did not.
And later, a missing girl`s cry for help.
AMANDA BERRY, KIDNAP VICTIM: Help me, I`m Amanda Berry.
DISPATCHER: You need police, fire, or ambulance?
BERRY: I need police.
DISPATCHER: OK. And what`s going on there?
BERRY: I`ve been kidnapped. And I`ve been missing for 10 years, and I`m here, I`m free now.
PINSKY: Let`s get started.
PINSKY: All right. Good evening, everybody.
My co-host this week is HLN`s Christi Paul, author of "Love isn`t Supposed to Hurt".
Jodi Arias jury has been at it for 13 1/2 hours now.
Coming up now, we`ve got the woman who is Travis Alexander`s first true love.
But first, Jodi`s Twitter account has been active. One tweet, in fact, caught our eye. Here it is, guys -- says, "I wanted so much to avoid trial, but the state forced it. My only other option was suicide," and, well -- hmmm.
My question here is all this threat, Christi, we know that borderlines do a lot of that. But Jodi seems to do this for particular affect. Do you agree?
CHRISTI PAUL, HLN ANCHOR: Yes. And I think, you know, I`ve been a lot of people on Twitter and Facebook, and I think everything she says just seems to be completely self serving. And she`s got that characteristic of blaming everybody else as opposed to taking any sort of ownership herself.
PAUL: And that is really disturbing to me.
PINSKY: And her point of view begs no alternative.
But is the suicide issue something we should really be paying attention to? Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said just stop talking to her, just stop calling her. And he said you don`t understand. She says she`s going to kill herself. I said she`s not going to kill herself.
And he said no. He said, you can`t guarantee that. And I can`t live with myself if she does.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT: Throughout the fall, I`ve been feeling suicidal. I called my friend because he has guns. And I was going to ask him if I could borrow one because I wanted to kill myself.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Was your goal to go to prison?
ARIAS: Not a physical prison on earth.
MARTINEZ: You nicked yourself and it hurt, right?
MARTINEZ: And I think the word that you used, stung, right?
MARTINEZ: To use your standard, ma`am, of how you stopped because it stung. Can you imagine how much it must have hurt Mr. Alexander when you stuck that knife right into his chest? That really must have hurt, right?
When were you asked about whether or not a jury would convict you, you said, well, the reason I said that was because I planned to be dead at the time, right?
ARIAS: That`s right.
JUDGE: What happened to the suicide letters you wrote to your grandmother?
ARIAS: I mailed them to my grandmother, and I asked her to hold them.
WITNESS: She also meets criteria C7, which is a sense of foreshortened future. She was thinking about suicide for the longest period of time.
MARTINEZ: She could have gone down the hallway, right?
MARTINEZ: And then could you have taken a quick left and been down the stairs, right?
ARIAS: No, I probably would have been dead.
MARTINEZ: Well, ma`am, you could have done that, couldn`t you?
ARIAS: Not unless I was suicidal.
PINSKY: I don`t know if anybody else has had any reaction watching this tape. Christi, how about you? When you string together all this gratuitous, suicidal thinking, it`s almost like life has no importance to her. And maybe that`s why she could extinguish somebody else`s life without seeming to give a damn.
PAUL: Yes. Very much. She seems so disconnected to what death really is. And the one thing I -- even listening to all that, the one thing I can`t get out of my head that we saw in the interrogation tapes was when she was so adamant that she wasn`t there. And she said if I killed Travis Alexander, I would beg for the death penalty.
But she is not, as we know, begging for the death penalty.
PINSKY: She may do it herself because show`s the one allowed to kill people, including herself.
Beth Karas, HLN legal correspondent, has been covering the trial.
Beth, I wonder, has the sheriff`s department taken precautions to prevent Jodi from killing herself? Is she on any kind of suicide watch?
BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: No, she`s not on any kind of suicide watch. I did end up speaking with the sheriff`s department public information officer, but only very briefly before I had to sit down. So, I didn`t get the full story. But she is not on suicide watch.
She has access to things that other inmates do. So, I suppose if she were really creative, she could figure out a way to kill herself. I mean, she has pencils. And she has her clothing.
But they don`t have belts. So they can`t easily hang themselves. And she`s not alone in herself, so that she could do something -- others would presumably prevent it, you know, if she were to try to hang herself in some way.
So, she -- and they can be very creative. We know the Craigslist killer figured out a way to cover his ankles and his wrists which he had cut with plastic bags so he could bleed into them and he wouldn`t be discovered. And he cut himself in strategic places. He was a medical student.
So he was able to do it with things that inmates have access to. So it`s possible. But she`s not any special watch. If they knew it, though, she`d be in a room naked with nothing.
PINSKY: And I guess it belies a bias that she has, which is, he had it coming and nobody`s going to convict me. I bet you she`s still confident. I bet you.
KARAS: Well, yes. Maybe with every passing day a little more confident. But in that tweet where she says suicide, well. And she says the state forced me -- she wanted. She offered to plead guilty to second degree murder, a maximum of 22 years. She forced herself to go to trial because she killed him.
PINSKY: All right. Thanks, Beth.
Joining us, Janine Driver, human lie detector, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me", attorney Mark Eiglarsh from speaktomark.com, seems that the fog has cleared in his studio, attorney Loni Coombs, "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".
Juan Martinez asked Jodi why she didn`t run the hallway and the stairs to get away from Travis, I think it`s because he was running away. She was chasing after him with a knife. But she said it was because she didn`t want to die.
Mark, why didn`t somebody zero in on that remark and she was saying I didn`t run away -- wait, I didn`t do that because I didn`t wan to die. How did she know she didn`t want to die? She was in the fog, right?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: That`s correct. And she reached for a gun that she thought was probably unloaded? Listen, so much doesn`t make sense.
And let`s go back to that suicide thing. Jodi Arias is not going to kill herself. The most that she`ll to do is make it appear like she attempted it so that she`ll get some sympathy. And part of the reason other than being the borderline that you`ve discussed is that in jail, she is queen of Sumunda (ph). There are abuse victims in there and they think erroneously that maybe she has been abused. So, they feel for her.
And with prisoner idol come up, she`s a star. She loves it in there. She does.
PINSKY: I don`t know the queen of Sumunda personally. In fact, I`ve never heard of her before tonight. But, Janine, do you think she`s actually sort of got stature in prison?
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: I know she does. I`ve spoken to producers from your show. I`ve spoken with people from the prisons, from other shows as well. They`ve literally gone out for drinks with people who were in jail with Jodi. And she`s an idol.
I think that Mark is not only cheeky and funny tonight, bringing his A game, but he is dead on. She is looked at.
And people write to me all the time, asking me, I`m not a psychologist, why do people love her? Is it because she has a chance of getting away with something they wish they could get away with? Or is it because bad people who do bad things like other people who do bad things? I don`t -- Dr. Drew, what`s your thought on that?
PINSKY: Well, I think it`s the same as women that get very infatuated with men that are incarcerated. I think, I`ve got a cameraman that`s interested in Jodi. We got one right here. People, people --
PAUL: Come on!
PINSKY: No, go ahead, Christi or Loni.
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Remember, in jail, she is a celebrity, like they`re saying. Sheep is a celebrity. People know that people are watching her on TV. They`re watching every move she makes all day long. There`s coverage of her.
So anybody that can get near to her has touched the celebrity. They can go out and now they`re more important because they`ve had that contact.
PINSKY: I think that`s right. That`s the sickness of our society is because somebody is on TV, because somebody has celebrity, they`re more important. We`ve got to get near them. It`s called basking in the narcissistic glow.
I`m not so sure, I think there`s a spectrum of why people get infatuated with people that are in this situation. Often times, people have been into themselves feel like they have a special understanding of somebody like Jodi. They believe her nonsense.
It starts with believing her. If you believe her, sure, you can get sort of infatuated and poor thing. But the fact is, she doesn`t tell the truth.
Now let`s talk about Nurmi, speaking about telling the truth. He tried to get off the case a couple times because of her manipulations and because of her just complete lack of understanding, appreciation of being factual, the truth.
We found a handwritten letter from Jodi to the judge in 2011. Here it is. "My first chair attorney, Kirk Nurmi, has submitted a motion to withdraw. I`m finding it difficult to express just how important I feel it is that he remains my attorney."
Loni, why does he have to stay her attorney, just because she wants that?
COOMBS: Yes, this is really fascinating, this relationship between Jodi and Nurmi.
In Arizona, once a case is set for trial, and it was set for trial at this point in August of 2011, the defense attorney cannot get off the case unless another defense attorney has come up and said, one, I`m willing to take the case, and two, I will be ready to go to trial on the date that`s already set.
When Nurmi made this motion, there was no other attorney that was willing to step up and say that. And so, the judge said, no, you can`t get off the case. We want this case to go to trial.
Then we had Jodi pushing so hard saying I want him. I need him. And it was so interesting, the harder he tried -- because he brought this motion more than once -- the harder he tried to get away from Jodi, the more she clung to him, almost Travis-like, like I don`t want you to get away, I want to be a little manipulating and control you and you can`t get away from me.
PINSKY: Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: I know that feeling. I moved to withdraw on one case several times. It was a federal case. I was forced to go to trial with this guy who I just couldn`t stand, who had a record dating back to the disco crisis. I couldn`t stand this guy.
I had to go to trial. So, let me say this. I admire Nurmi on some level.
Obviously, I don`t like his client. I don`t like anything she stands for. But to be forced and to try a case and give all that you can for someone you cannot stand so that the system works, which is what you want for your own defense lawyer, I do give him credit for that.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough. Thank you, guys.
Next up, Travis Alexander`s first true love, maybe his only true love, his ex-girlfriend Deanna Reid in her first interview since she was on the witness stand. She`ll be here with us.
And later, after 10 years in captivity, a woman`s desperate plea for help, it`s an unbelievable story. We`ll get into that and more, after this.
PINSKY: Welcome back. I`m here with my co-host tonight, HLN`s Christi Paul. And we have something very, very important coming up. A first time interview with a key player in Travis alive.
Joining us as well, Sirius XM radio host and attorney, Jenny Hutt. Also staying with us Mark Eiglarsh, attorney, and the woman who was Travis Alexander`s first true love, Deanna Reid. She testified against Jodi in the trial.
Jodi`s defense attorney -- well, they were awful to her. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Were you instructed to act a certain way with Travis when Ms. Reed was present?
NURMI: How was that?
ARIAS: He warned me that she was emotionally unstable. And that she would freak out if she saw him with other girls.
NURMI: States as well he didn`t abuse Deanna Reid. He didn`t abuse - - and I would suggest, even though they say that, I think that`s probably not completely accurate, because while they had some consensual sex, it was going against their religion. And I`m sure that was damaging to both of them.
Sure Jodi lied, but Travis Alexander lied too, didn`t he? Not only did we hear Deanna Reid talk about how he lied about having sex. He would lie by omission.
(END VIDEIIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Deanna, thank you so much for being here with us and sharing also some really lovely photographs. We`ll be playing them alongside of our discussion here.
Now -- you guys look so happy together. It looks heart breaking to look at you guys in these photos. I am so sorry you had to go through this.
Let me just -- let me just -- I have to speak to you from my heart, my dear. You know, I`ve read that Travis did a lot -- he trusted you with so much. I mean, I feel like he really, you were really a part of him. I feel like Chris Hughes and you really -- and Sky also, really knew this man.
And then you had to get through this mudslinging in the court where they really just, I mean, we played some easy stuff here. You were made to feel terrible.
How do you feel now? Where you at? How do you process this? Where are you?
DEANNA REID, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: I`m doing good. I feel good about getting on the stand. And standing up for Travis. And just telling it like it is, and telling the truth about him.
So I`m glad that I was able to do it. I knew it was an important thing for me to do. And so I`m glad that I had the chance to.
And I knew that they would say something that was, you know, inappropriate, like I kind of, I knew what was coming. So I was ready for it.
PINSKY: Oh, good. I`m glad they didn`t hurt you. But you`ve been sort of hurt enough by Jodi. And now, Travis used to say that whoever married him would have to be used to you being around. You`re going to be in his life forever.
And yet, you know, he really -- you connected to him. You`re a reflection of him.
Where did Jodi come from? What are your thoughts on that? You two couldn`t be more different.
REID: You know, I don`t know. I think it was one of those things where she was throwing herself at him. And he liked the attention. And that`s -- you know, that`s where it came from.
PINSKY: I understand you had kind of an interesting experience with Jodi where you went to -- he asked you to check up on the dog or something and you went in there and lo and behold there`s Jodi in his house.
Can you tell us that story?
REID: Yes. I had come, I lived about an hour away from Travis at the time. And he just asked me, please go check on Napoleon, because, you know, my roommates are in and out. They`re not really watching him. I just want to make sure that he has food and that he`s OK.
And so, I gladly went. I loved that dog. So I went to check up on him. And when I did, I, there was no cars there. It looked like nobody was home.
And I used my key to get in the house. And I came in, and I smelled that there were cookies baking. And I thought that was kind of odd. And then I walked in and as I get towards the kitchen and the living room, I see Jodi. She`s sitting on the couch with Travis` laptop.
And she comes up when she sees me. She gets up right away. And there`s some cookies in the oven. And there`s a tray of cookies on the counter.
And she grabs the tray, and she comes over to me and she say, like total Stepford wife is what it`s like. And she comes up --
PINSKY: Like a robot.
REID: -- do you want a cookie?
Yes, completely like that.
And so, she offers me a cookie. And I was at this point I kind of knew about what was going on with the slashing tires. I didn`t know for sure it was her. I didn`t want to believe that it was.
But I knew some stuff, some stalking behaviors were going on.
PINSKY: And there she is.
REID: And so --
PINSKY: And there she is in his house. She`s broken into his house. And you knew she wasn`t supposed to be there.
I want to interrupt for just a second and get my panel a chance to ask you question. They`ve all been very anxious to speak with you.
Jenny Hutt, I`m going to start with you. Jenny, what would you like to ask?
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: I wanted to ask, do you think that all the ridiculous -- first of all, I`m sorry about how you were treated on the stand. I was so fired up and so angry about it. So, I`m sorry you were put through that. I`m sorry about Travis.
But do you feel that all the talk about sex and the since tape has really taken away from what really matters in this trial, which is the fact that Jodi is a disgusting, ravaging, crazo murderer, that she murdered Travis?
REID: Yes, absolutely. That`s not what this trial is about. It`s about my friend being murdered.
PINSKY: Yes, right. Mark?
REID: And I hate that they keep bringing up all these other aspects of what happened.
PINSKY: Mark, you`ve been saying that from the beginning.
EIGLARSH: Yes. I`m only smiling because jenny always holds back how she truly feels. Let it out, Jen.
EIGLARSH: Deanna, I wanted to ask you. First of all, I admired you while you were testifying. I mean, you were being asked some very detailed questions about your sex life. And I`m wondering what you kept telling yourself so that you wouldn`t react.
Now, I want to know where you got that lack of reaction which actually made you a lot more credible, at least here in the court of public opinion.
REID: Well, I knew that I had to be that way. I knew that the defense wanted me to react. That`s what -- that`s what Jodi wanted. She wanted to embarrass me. She wanted me to be humiliated. So I kept telling myself I`m not going to give her what she wants.
And I`m going to stand up for myself and I`m just going to tell it like it is. And it`s the truth. And so I just, I did it. I told the truth. And I`m OK with it.
PINSKY: Christi, I want to give you the last word here. Go ahead.
PAUL: You know, we`re seeing the pictures of the dog. And as I understand it, he left the dog to you in his will. And Jodi -- that was even a point of contention for her, wasn`t it?
REID: Yes. Yes. People were saying, I remember soon after Travis died, that people were saying that Jodi was trying to tell, tell people around and see what was happening with Napoleon, because she was saying that Travis wanted her to have Napoleon if he ever died.
And so, that was -- you know, false, obviously. And he had left napoleon to me in his will. And had, he had left me his library, what he called it. He just had so many books.
And he, I remember, because of prepaid, he had to get a will done. Well, he didn`t have to, but it was just one of those things that they promote doing is doing your will. And that`s something that comes with that membership that he was selling.
And so when he did the will, he called me afterwards, and he told me I did my will, and I`m giving Napoleon to you. And I`m giving you my library. And everything else, just all my material things and my house, that`s all going to my grandma.
PINSKY: Seems like you still get yes motional.
REID: Those are the things that are important to me.
PINSKY: You still get emotional.
REID: Yes. That`s one of the conversations that I really remember having with him. Because I, it`s hard for me to remember everything and go back and think about things, but that`s one of those conversations that I really remember, because he said specifically like I trust you. I know you`ll take care of the things that are important to me.
PINSKY: OK. We have a lot more for Deanna. Hang on, my dear.
We have a lot more coming up for Deanna.
PAUL: I`m so sorry.
PINSKY: And later on, we are going to discuss the three kidnapped women who have been found a decade after they were absconded with. One of them finally makes a break for it. We`ll be back with the 911 tape.
We`ll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
ARIAS: I went back to the front door and rang the doorbell.
NURMI: And who answered the door?
ARIAS: Travis and Napoleon.
NURMI: OK. And Napoleon is his dog, right?
MARTINEZ: Do you whether or not he had a pet?
REID: Yes, he had a dog named Napoleon.
MARTINEZ: And who has that dog now?
REID: I have that dog.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Back with my panel. And we`ve been joined by Deanna Reid.
Deanna, this is her first time speaking since having been on the stand there. We`ve been seeing alongside of our conversation here, the cued pictures of the dog.
And, Deanna, I want to take you back to the issue with the will. I mean, that speaks so loud to me about how Travis feels about you. There`s the cute dog and you with him.
This dog he loved, he trusted but the dog. His books he loved. He trusted you with the books.
Jodi took this man --
REID: Yes. We trusted each other.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Deanna. And Jodi took this man away from you.
REID: We trusted each other.
PINSKY: Yes. And Jodi took this man away.
PINSKY: What -- I`m almost at a loss of words. I mean, how do you -- how do you not want to wring her neck yourself?
REID: I do. I just -- I can`t understand why she would do this. I just, I can`t wrap my head around it, like I don`t know what would have made her get to that point of doing that? Why couldn`t she have just moved on with her life? Like it wouldn`t have been so easy for her to just move on.
It just -- it hurts. It hurts me that, that she did -- obviously, that she did that. But that it`s just, the way she did it, just everything about it, I don`t -- it`s so confusing to me and hard for me to understand. And that`s part of the hurt is the just trying to figure out why, when there really isn`t an explanation. And I`ll never, never get an answer to why.
PINSKY: Jenny Hutt, go ahead.
HUTT: Yes. Well, number one, I wanted to speak to what Dr. Drew was saying before about his giving you his stuff in his will. I think Travis loved you. I think that was real.
HUTT: That was love.
HUTT: And I wonder if you think, Deanna, if you think things had not turned out this way, if there had not been this, a homicidal maniac named Jodi, that there might have been a future with Travis, even though you guys were apart?
REID: For us, romantically, no. And I know that now. And I knew at the time when we broke up, like it was, it was over for us in that sense.
We were still friends. We were friends before we started dating. And we remained friends after, too.
And I loved him. He was an important part of my every day life.
And one of the things, too, they bring up his childhood a lot. And how the way he was raised that caused issues and made him abusive towards Jodi.
And that`s not true. He did have some issues from his childhood growing up, but those issues were issues of commitment, and allowing someone to love him. So I think that that really was the issue that he had and not being abusive. He didn`t -- he didn`t get that from his upbringing. What he got was the issues with commitment and being able to feel, maybe, like he deserved love from someone.
PINSKY: And that fits. And that really fits with his history. Christi, I wonder if we should ask Deanna question you asked last night about what she thinks he would want.
PAUL: Yes. I mean, -- well, there were two things I wanted to ask. One was, how did you prepare yourself to be in the same room with Jodi, because that had to be so hard to sit on the stand knowing she was sitting there scrutinizing everything you said.
And two, you know, we`ve heard so much from Chris and Sky talking about what a compassionate man he was and how he didn`t want -- he fought so hard not to hurt her. How do you think he would feel right now? What would you think -- what do you think he would want to happen to her? Now?
REID: That`s another thing that makes me so sad is that he was. He was compassionate. He always gave people the benefit of the doubt. He didn`t want to believe that there was so much evil in someone that they could do this. And I know that he wanted to -- he wanted to help her. I know that he would have wanted to, you know, just, just not be, not be that person who she`s trying to say that he is.
And, as far as what we would want to happen to her now, I`m not sure - - all that I know is that if this had happened to one of his friends, if Jodi had killed a friend of his, he would have wanted her to have the death penalty.
PINSKY: OK. That speaks volumes. And I really do feel like you know this man. So, we will assume that will be Travis` point of view. Mark, go ahead. What do you got for Deanna?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: You know, Deanna, the more I get to know you, the more I see how opposite you are from Jodi.
EIGLARSH: My question is, what was it about Travis that caused him not to want to embrace the warning signs when Chris and Sky say, "look, you`ve got to stay away from this girl. She is not what you think." He resisted it. What is it about his character that caused him to want to stay with her? What do you think?
REID: It`s like I was saying before, like he liked -- he wanted to give people the benefit of the doubt. He wanted to see the good in people. And so, he would -- he would ignore those bad things and just look at the good things. Plus, she was giving him tons of attention, and I think that he liked that and that he liked the attention that he was getting from her. So, I think that`s part of the reason why he stayed with her.
PINSKY: And Deanna, I think you`re zeroing in on his ability to commit and receive love as really a key thing here. When people have been traumatized like he was, they confuse intensity for love. They confuse sex for love. They sort of gap through their difficulty accepting love with physicality and things. And that`s exactly what she took advantage of.
PINSKY: Well, Deanna, I just want to thank you from all -- go ahead. I`ll give you the last word here and I want to thank you for joining us. But go right ahead, what would you like to say, finishing up here?
REID: Just on that note, it just makes me, again, it just breaks my heart, because I think that eventually, he would have got to that point. I think that he would have been able to find love and get married and have a family, but she took that away from him.
PINSKY: She took everything away from him, Deanna. And I think with friends like you in his life, I think there`s no doubt he would have gotten there.
All right. My dear, thank you for joining us. Thank you all to my panel. My jury weighs in on what has been taking so long. What they`ve been absorbing in the courthouse.
And later, three young women missing for a decade are found alive in Ohio. The desperate 911 call after this.
PINSKY: You`re here with HLN`s Christi Paul. And joining us from outside the courthouse, my jurors, Katie Wick and Stacey Fairrington. Stacey, I`m going to start with you tonight. Do you think there`s someone holding up this verdict? Is there one person or more?
STACEY FAIRRINGTON, DR. DREW "JUROR": You know, I actually think that could be the dynamic of what`s going on. I think this group looks, you know, when they go on their breaks, they -- they have seemed like they`re kind of together. Now, they take them out in little groups today. And they`re always accompanied. But I mean, even today, you have these little groups that were telling stories and kind of, you know, talking personal life as they came and went.
But there is one that I did notice at the end of the day as they all came out that kind of just held back a little. And he`s kind of the younger guy that sits in the front. And you know, I couldn`t help but wonder, not that I necessarily think he might be the holdout, but for all the jurors, I think he might be the one that`s thinking let`s get this going.
But there is one guy that kind of sticks to himself, kind of the older guy in the front. And he`s the one that I think -- you know, maybe he has, maybe a few more questions or some reservations. His interaction with the jurors is just kind of a little bit different than from the rest of them.
So, I don`t know that I want to say like I think he`s the holdout, but maybe he`s the one that, you know, maybe having a harder time or maybe they`re explaining a little bit more. You never know. Also it could be that they`re just going over everything.
PINSKY: Right. It could be they`re going over things very, very carefully. Katie, your thought on this and that guy that Stacey`s referencing, did he seem to have a connection with Jodi in the courtroom?
KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": No, I didn`t see any connection with Jodi at all in the courtroom, frankly, Dr. Drew. But, actually, I think they`re just doing their job. I think they`re being thorough. I think, perhaps, they`ve seen the Casey Anthony trial and they saw what happened with the jurors in that case.
They`re doing their job. There`s a lot of evidence that these jurors have to go through. And, I`m not concerned, Dr. Drew. I think if it gets into Friday, next Monday, I`ll start getting a little concerned. I`m not concerned right now and think they have their notes that they have to go through as well.
They haven`t been able to talk as we have been able to talk these four months about this case. Perhaps, they spent three or four hours talking about the case. I`m not concerned yet. I think they`re just doing their job and they`re being very diligent.
PINSKY: All right, guys. Thank you for that report.
Christi, next, we`re going to talk about these kidnap victims from Ohio. I know. It`s a crazy story. We`re going to talk about who these perpetrators were, what the girls were dealing with now, how does this happen. I got a lot of questions, Christi. I know you`ve got a bunch of questions for me. We`ll get into all of that after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Three young women, kidnapped and held against their will for a decade. They`re back with their families just 24 hours after a daring escape and rescue.
CHARLES RAMSEY, NEIGHBOR WHO SAVED THE THREE MISSING WOMEN: I see this girl going nuts, trying to get out of a house. And she says help me get out. I`ve been in here a long time.
PINSKY: She called 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve been kidnapped. And I`ve been missing for ten years. And I`m here. I`m free now.
PINSKY: Amanda Berry was reported missing in Cleveland ten years ago. When police descended on the scene, two others were Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight were discovered. They, too, had been reported missing many years ago. The owner of the house, Ariel Castro, has been arrested with his two brothers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): Incredible story. I`m back again with my co- host, HLNs Christi Paul. Joining the two of us, child advocate, Marc Klaas. His 12-year-old daughter, you remember, Polly, was abducted at night point and later killed by her kidnapper. I have Jenny Hutt and I also have psychologist, Wendy Walsh, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox."
Mark, you first here, miracle isn`t a word that`s easy to throw around, but I bet you`re using that as it pertains to this story. Why?
MARC KLAAS, DAUGHTER POLLY WAS KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED: Well, I think it`s appropriate, Drew, and I`ll tell you why. We rarely ever see children of predatory kidnappings be returned to their families after an extended period of time. We know the names. There`s Jaycee Dugard. There`s Shawn Hornbeck and the other boy. There`s Elizabeth Smart.
There are a few others historically, but this is three at once. These are three families that hit the kidnap super lotto at the same time. It`s an absolutely extraordinary event that has made America the sunshine a little brighter in America today.
PINSKY: I agree with you, Marc, although one mom died still thinking her daughter was missing. And I, by the way, think he ought to be held accountable for that death as some sort of manslaughter or murder, because you can die of that sort of stress, and I think she did.
But Marc, let me ask you a quick question before I go to another guest, which is that, you`ve been at this for a while now with this field. What do you think these guys are like? Who do you think this guy was that held these girls?
KLAAS: Well, I`ve heard him by people that are certainly, that certainly understand this better than I do, described as a sexually sadistic psychopath many times today. And I can`t argue with that at all. This is a guy that absolutely shattered lives. He stole children. He stole their youth. He stole their innocence. He`s held them hostage.
They`ve been under the threat of his intimidation. They`ve been fearful for all of these years. This is one of the worst kinds of predators that exist. And if this character ever sees the light of day again, then justice will not have been served.
PINSKY: Thank you, Mark. I mean, we`ve been -- evil has been in the headlines for quite some time. And strangely, brothers that are doing evil things lately. Joining me on the phone is someone who knew Ariel Castro. His name is Rafael. He actually was in a salsa band with this suspect.
They lived in a Cleveland neighborhood. I guess you lived next to him for two years. Rafael, you met him in 2003 right when the first girl had gone missing in 2002. Did you have any idea this guy was capable of anything at all?
VOICE OF RAFAEL, KIDNAPPING SUSPECT`S FORMER NEIGHBOR: Dr. Drew, I had no idea such thing -- this man would ever do something like that. I mean, he would come over my house. He had a big smile on his face, always cracking jokes, very friendly. Extra too friendly with my wife. I kind of like didn`t like that too much.
PINSKY: So, he was sexually inappropriate with your wife?
RAFAEL: No, no, no. He wasn`t sexual inappropriate with my wife at all. That`s not what I`m saying, but he was a little too friendly.
PINSKY: That sounds -- Ladies - Wendy, you have any questions for Rafael about the perpetrators?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., AUTHOR, "30-DAY LOVE DETOX": Yes. I want to know. When you said that he`s a little too friendly, were you meaning that he was flirting with your wife? Were you worried that he might actually try to have an affair with your wife?
RAFAEL: No, I wasn`t worried about such thing because my wife, I wasn`t worried about my wife having an affair with him or nothing like that. That wasn`t the issue here. It`s just that the man would kind of like real put too much conversation with her. I was talking with her today. And she was telling me things that he would ask her, like, stuff like, you know, what kind of work she did and why -- how there was only one car.
And at that time, you got to keep in mind, one thing in mind is that, I think about that time, he only had one girl, and that was the person (ph), that he was still looking for two more. I guess, he wanted to have two more. So, I really believe -- and I thank God, but I really believe that he targeted my wife.
I really do believe, because he was a little too friendly. I mean -- in a heartbeat, I spoke to my wife, and I told her that, you know, whenever this man come over, you know, just stay upstairs --
PINSKY: This whole story makes me disgusted. I feel like I`m going to throw up. Jenny, did you have something for this guy? For Rafael, go ahead.
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: No. First of all, first I want to say I`m sorry again to Marc Klaas.
HUTT: I`m just so sorry. I just I can`t let go of that. I can`t let go of that. I`m sick for him.
KLAAS: Thank you.
HUTT: But Rafael, I bet your -- I don`t know that he was targeting your wife, but you definitely got that sense of something creepy and not right about this guy. And what a predator and what a vile creature. It scares me that I had to have that talk again with my kids today.
PINSKY: Yes. Go ahead, Rafael.
RAFAEL: He made me feel really uncomfortable. That`s for sure.
PINSKY: Good instinct, my friend. Listen, this is -- you know, we talk a lot about these days. You see something unusual, keep an eye on it, call, talk to your kids about it. I`ve got to take a break. Marc, thank you so much. Rafael, thank you.
Next up, again, abducted at age nine, held captive in a bunker for more than two weeks. I will talk to a kidnap survivor, Katie Beers, about the Ohio abductions.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Thanks, Dr. Drew. Coming up at the top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," Ryan Smith, 13.5 hours, still no verdict. What`s going on in that jury room?
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: I know. You`ve got to wonder when they`re ever going to reach a verdict. But you know what, eight men, four women on that jury. So, you know what we`re doing tonight, battle of the sexes. Our jury has six men, six women. The --
POLITAN: Wait, wait a minute. You said six men and six women. It`s six men and six beautiful ladies.
SMITH: There you go.
Also, our Arizona jury, too, they get to ask a lot of questions of our experts, of us. It`s going to be a big night,
POLITAN: And the question is, are women seeing this trial differently than men? Are the women seeing Jodi Arias differently than the men? We`ll find out. "HLN After Dark," top of the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAMSEY: Not a clue that that girl was in that house or anybody else was in there against their will, because how he is -- he just comes out to his back yard, plays with the dogs, tinker with his cars and motorcycles and goes back in the house. So, he`s somebody as you look and you look away because he`s not doing nothing but the average stuff. There`s nothing exciting about him well, until today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Very prophetic. Charles Ramsey, a local hero. Back with my co-host, Christ Paul. You like Charles. I do.
PAUL: Somebody give him some reward money for heaven`s sake. I mean, that was brilliant.
PINSKY: Yes. He was brilliant, and he is continuing to be brilliant telling the story. I really -- I think Charle is the greatest. Joining us by phone is someone who is a kidnap survivor, Katie Beers. She was abducted at age nine, held captive underground in a bunker for 70 days. Katie, can you give us any insight, any reaction you had when you heard this story?
VOICE OF KATIE BEERS, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: Oh, my. When I first heard this story broke. It was last evening. And I have been trying to focus solely on the good rather than the bad. And that these three women have been rescued. And from the accounts that I`ve read so far, they seem to be healthy.
And I`m just, I`m trying to focus solely on that. And also, that these women will be able to seek recovery and seek counseling and be able to move on from this horrible tragedy.
PINSKY: I know you had treatment. We hear about Elizabeth Smart getting well. People can really recover, but they need help, correct?
BEERS: Most certainly. Your support system, counseling, families, friends. They`re all going to be instrumental to these three women recovering from what they`ve endured, and then, especially this little six- year-old girl. I mean, she`s just going to -- she`s gone from one normal to a complete other. And she`s just going to need a lot of counseling also.
PINSKY: I have a feeling we`re going to hear, Christi, you were talking about this before, the show started tonight, where you and I both agree that we`re going to hear that these monsters were starting to go after the child, and that`s when these woman -- that`s when they put their life on the line. They didn`t care.
PAUL: Yes. I mean, I hate to speculate because I don`t want to re- traumatize these girls. And we`re just speculating because we don`t know what happened, but when you think about the fact that they were there for ten years, and everybody`s wondering what was it that made her finally leave. And I know as a mom, you can do whatever the hell you want to do to me, but if you come after my kid, and I will fight you to the death.
PINSKY: There you go.
PAUL: I do wonder if that`s what happened.
PINSKY: Guys, I`m sorry. I`ve got to take a break. I`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Be sure to watch Chris Cuomo`s interview with Amanda Knox tonight at CN on CNN at 10:30 eastern time. Chris sat down with the former college student who was imprisoned in Italy for the death of her roommate. The sentence ultimately overturned. Watch, "Amanda Knox: The Unanswered Questions" tonight, 10:30 on CNN.
Chris, I want to say thank you tonight. I also want to say thank you to my panelists. And I want to give Marc Klaas the final word here. I have to get on that last segment so quickly. Please, Marc, what do you got for us here?
KLAAS: Well, listen, thank you very much. I think these kids need everybody`s love and prayers. And I don`t want anybody on your panel or your audience to feel sorry for me. I`ve reconciled my loss. My daughter`s death had meaning. And we just move forward from here.
PINSKY: Marc, and I thank you for the work you do. I really do. It`s deeply meaningful.
Tomorrow night, if Travis Alexander thought his life was about to end, what would be his last words? Believe it or not, we think we have it on tape. Exclusive video you`ll see only here tomorrow (ph) night. See you next time.