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First Degree Murder: Aggravation Phase; Ohio`s House of Horrors
Aired May 10, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(EGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, Jodi Arias behind bars. Is she making phone calls from jail? We have her voice mail.
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: Hi, Troy. It`s Jodi Arias. I`m a person of my word so I`ll keep our deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travis Alexander`s friend speaks for the first time. What Travis told him just days before he was murdered.
Plus, the latest in the Ohio kidnapping case. What did the suspects` daughter know?
ANGIE GREGG, SUSPECT`S DAUGHTER: He would disappear for an hour or so and then come back. And there would be no explanation where he went. Everything`s making sense now. It`s all adding up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And a victim of sexual abuse with a message for those women.
DR. DREW ON CALL starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is Sirius XM radio host and attorney Jenny Hutt.
Jenny, great to see you again.
We`ve got a ton to get to tonight.
New developments, we have uncovered an e-mail from Jodi Arias that is chilling/nauseating. You`ve got to hear this.
And we have the first interview of a friend of Travis who knew as many did, Jodi did this right from the start. He`s got some interesting insight. Everyone, including Travis himself knew it would be Jodi. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INVESTIGATOR: Obsessed is the word they use. That`s the word I hear from everybody. Fatal attraction.
UNIDENTIIFED FEMALE: He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him and following him and slashing tires and things like that.
INVESTIGATOR: From day one, even before we found our piece of evidence linking her to it, I knew there was something there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She went to a memorial for Travis in Arizona. And my other sister had seen her there. We had already had the feeling that she had something to do with it. And she would look away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`d you guys catch her, anyway?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happens if she`s found guilty?
INVESTIGATOR: Everything Travis is telling me is that Jodi did this to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: On our panel tonight, Lisa Bloom from legal advisor of avo.com, Darren Kavinoky, attorney and host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery, and Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com.
Now, Mark, I see the fog has cleared. The fog has cleared. You and I are going to finish a little later what we started last night. We`re to revisit -- oh, wait, oh, no, no. There`s a fog again.
Clear the fog before we get back into our altercation, all right, my friend?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Someone`s still in a fog from last night, and it ain`t me, brother.
PINSKY: First off, legal correspondent from HLN, Beth Karas.
BETH KARAS, HLN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Jodi continues to remain in the psych ward at Lower Buckeye jail where she was transported after the verdict but after she, the TV interview, visited with her family at Estrella jail. Following that visit, she went to the psych ward. And that`s where she remains.
This was Sheriff Joe Arpaio`s decision. She was evaluated, as all inmates are, although they`re not giving specifics about her. She gets evaluated classified. And will be under supervision, under watch until the doctors there feel it`s OK for her to go back to Estrella.
PINSKY: And, Beth, let me ask you. Beth, this is a hospital unit within the jail, is that correct?
PINSKY: Psychiatric hospital.
KARAS: It`s a facility where she`s been held. And it`s the only jail in Maricopa County with a hospital facility.
PINSKY: Hospital facility. So it`s a hospital with the same rules, licensing as any other hospital, it just happens to be within a jail.
KARAS: That`s my understanding. They`re not giving up a lot of information though.
But she will be transported back is my understanding to Estrella or elsewhere once they feel that she`s no longer a threat to herself. I do not expect this to delay next week`s proceedings. A lot of people feel this is a delay tactic on her part.
There`s no court on Monday and Tuesday because the state`s witness, the medical examiner is not available. That`s why there`s no court Monday and Tuesday. Not because she`s in this unit.
PINSKY: Got it. Get on with this thing.
Thank you so much, Beth.
Now, listen, we have been -- by the way, there is the family last night talking to Jean Casarez after they attempted to visit her but could not. And I have my own theories why not. But I want to get so something very interesting here.
We have been provided exclusively with an e-mail sent by Jodi Arias on September 1st of 2008, a few weeks after she had slaughtered our buddy Travis. I don`t mean to sound glib about that. He is someone that absolutely everybody has felt was a friend, we feel attached to.
It is a letter to a prepaid legal leader. Take a look at this. You`re going to want to hear this. This is really disturbing and chilling.
"I`m writing this letter in regards to Travis Alexander whose life was taken last June." Interesting. "He was a good friend of mine. I am also at present in custody, as I`m being charged with his murder. I`m not writing this solely to plead my on innocence. That goes without saying." Without saying, my dear, way to go.
"As Travis meant the world to me. I would never harm him. It is my understanding that his memory will be honored and recognized in Las Vegas this September. I would humbly remind those who say any different that I am innocent until proven guilty.
It is with spirit of humility that I would ask that if I am in any way referenced during Travis` memorial, the team break out, that my implied innocence is taken into account.
With humble gratitude, Jodi" --
PINSKY: Yes, I heard you groan.
Jenny, Mark, your reaction first.
EIGLARSH: It`s just more of the same. She cares so much what people think. Everything goes back to that. She cares about what the world thinks of her.
She left a message on Travis` cell phone immediately after the killing, yeah. I hope we get together. We`re invited to do something. I`d love for you to be with us.
So, that was her mentality right after he killed him. This is what she does. It`s more of the same, Drew.
PINSKY: Jenny, you want to comment about that letter. You were groaning as well.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: I have a comment.
HUTT: I`m groaning about all of this. I`m wondering how much is going to be included in her bio pick. I mean, the hospital stay, the letter. I got to tell you, she just doesn`t quit. She doesn`t stop.
There isn`t an ounce of contrition. There isn`t an ounce of knowing what she did was wrong. There`s nothing. There is zero humility on her character, zero.
HUTT: This is someone who`s empty.
PINSKY: Zero. I don`t know what to say about this. I think I need some nausea medication is the main reaction I have to it.
I want to talk about juror number eight. He is speaking out after having been kicked off the trial weeks ago. Here`s what Daniel Gibb told affiliate KPNX about other members of the jury.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DANIEL GIBB, DISMISSED JUROR #8: We talked about many things, personal things. We did crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles. I know it sounds cliche, but it was very surreal being there. My reaction, I -- I wasn`t surprised at all at the verdict. I knew that`s what was coming.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Apparently, there was a certain amount of unit amongst the jury. Do you think they`ll have unit about the death penalty?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: I have to say I was a little nervous what you said he was going to talk about his relationship with the jury. I thought ah-oh they talked about the case when they weren`t supposed to. But in fact, it turned out to be normal boring jury stuff, crossword puzzles, jigsaw puzzles, good.
So, that sounds to me like this jury is doing what they`re supposed to do and hopefully, this verdict will stick.
PINSKY: Darren, you haven`t commented yet. Let us know what you`re thinking.
DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I`m thinking I`m not at all priced to learn that Jodi Arias, when she penned that letter to the prepaid legal folks that she would embellish, that she would say thinks that we now know with 20/20 hindsight are absolutely two scoops of crazy. I mean, just -- I wouldn`t expect her to act with any kind of integrity. I think the greatest insight we have into Jodi and her state of mind is only coming from statements that she makes when she doesn`t think anybody else is watching or listening, like the voice mail message that she left for that reporter. I find that to be far more telling than anything else we`ve heard from the mouth of Jodi Arias.
EIGLARSH: Drew, the fact that they got along and did jigsaw puzzles together I don`t think in any way gives us insight as to whether they are going to all unanimously -- and that`s what they must do -- decide whether she lives or dies, particular because capital punishment is shrinking in popularity, extremely controversial.
I don`t know, if you`re going to get -- especially with this interview now. What does it mean? Does she really want to die? Doesn`t she?
I just -- it`s going to be more difficult to get a unanimous verdict on that. That`s a problem.
HUTT: Yes. First of all he is two scoops of crazy with two scoops of crazy with crazy on top. So, kudos to you.
But I agree, I don`t think if they`re going to put her to death because everybody fees like they know the real, full whacked out Jodi Arias. And it`s hard to put somebody to death whom you know. It feels maybe inhumane.
However, she`s so vile that maybe, maybe they will.
PINSKY: I think --
HUTT: I have to say one thing.
HUTT: That voice mail message and that interview, she`s a women of her word. How many types have we heard she`s a woman of her word? But she`s not even kind of a woman of her word.
PINSKY: Her word is -- I don`t even want to think about what she`s actually thinking bout herself. I don`t want to think about Jodi for a second.
I want to think about one thing, but you guys that are attorneys. Have you dealt with crazies like this? The three of you. Show of hands.
Is this a familiar case for any of you three?
HUTT: Not in ha courthouse.
KAVINOKY: She`s two scoops of crazy on steroids.
PINSKY: But you guys have defended and prosecuted people like this in the past, right?
BLOOM: Absolutely. We don`t catch the smart ones, right? Everybody`s innocent and everybody wants their good name not to be smeared. I mean, this is very typical stuff.
PINSKY: All right. Now, I`ve been taken a lot of heat about -- because I deal with people like this all the time, an my job is to feel empathy for them when they get in situations and they end up in a psychiatric hospital and to the evaluate them carefully no matter how damn manipulative and problematic they are.
So, Mark, you and I are yelling at each other about this last night. Hang --
EIGLARSH: You`re still yelling at me.
PINSKY: I`m yelling at you now.
EIGLARSH: You`re still yelling at me.
PINSKY: Turn the fog on, you won`t have to hear me. Be like Jodi. And we`re going to go at it again tonight. We`re going to revisit what happened.
And I still got to get -- television is a difficult thing to get a complicated point across.
EIGLARSH: He`s yelling at me.
PINSKY: I`m sorry.
PINSKY: I`m still feeling the strongly about something. I`m going to try to say. People clearly didn`t get it on social media at all. I`ll try again. It`s all because we have all --
EIGLARSH: They got it.
PINSKY: No, they didn`t.
EIGLARSH: They got it. They just didn`t agree with you.
PINSKY: Later on, a close friend of Travis Alexander will speak for the first time. Hear what Travis told him before he was murdered. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EIGLARSH: Yes, I disagree with you, my friend.
EIGLARSH: I think this is not about someone with a psychiatric problem. I think this is someone with a defect in character who --
PINSKY: Mark, I`m going to interrupt you. Mark, how do you get into a psych ward without a psychiatric problem, damn it. You have to have a psychiatric problem --
EIGLARSH: No. No. I disagree with you.
PINSKY: That`s not possible. We`ve got to get the license checked out at the facility.
EIGLARSH: She is an actress, Drew.
PINSKY: We have professionals at that facility admitting her.
EIGLARSH: Listen to me.
PINSKY: I`m listening.
EIGLARSH: She finally realized -- she finally realized that the rest of her life, there are only two options. She`s going to spend the rest of her life in prison.
EIGLARSH: Or the state`s going to kill her, which ironically they put her on suicide watch.
PINSKY: She`s an unstable person.
EIGLARSH: She has two options. You`re right. So she`s acting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back.
I`m with my co-host Jenny Hutt.
Jenny, are you acting tonight? Or is it really you?
PINSKY: Because Mark thinks everybody is acting. Just be careful.
HUTT: No, hear me out. Stop, stop. Here`s what I think. Listen, guys.
EIGLARSH: She`s real. She`s real.
HUTT: You`re both right. Here`s why. Dr. Drew, she is psychologically screwed up. That girl`s got problems.
HUTT: And does need help. Mark, you`re right. She is some kind of actress. So this is what I think. I do think she`s acting and playing the part of the woman who got convicted of first degree murder, which she committed. But I also think that which caused her to commit said murder is something very wrong internally. So you`re both correct.
PINSKY: But, Jenny, when somebody in the jail starts saying I`d rather die, that`s it. You`re going in the -- you said I want to die. That`s enough to trigger a suicide response. We`re calling you out on your B.S. at that point.
She`s manipulating, you call her out. You send her to the psych ward which she`s on the record saying she doesn`t want to go to. And you let the officials at, Mark, the hospital, decide whether they want to keep her or not. These are professionals that are charged with a certain amount of care that if she doesn`t meet the criteria, she`s back out again. Should she talk about suicide again? She`s back in.
EIGLARSH: First of all, I love your compassion. I do. I think it`s admirable when you`re treating people who are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol. You bring that same compassion with, no disrespect, a healthy dose of naivete, to believe that this woman, who has manipulated her own experts, law enforcement and this jury, or at least try, is somehow truly suffering at the time from some mental illness that somehow she truly intends to kill herself.
All that took place was Sheriff Joe heard her interview and said, OK, you`re going for your protection and ours to the loony part of the jail. That`s it.
PINSKY: What he said was, Mark, is you want to talk about dying, you`re going into the hole. Every time you bring up dying, back go to the hole. They called her out on her B.S.
EIGLARSH: You took it one step further.
EIGLARSH: We both agree on that. But you took it one step further and said, no, she must -- at that point, there must have been something significant going on with her, something real, something not manufactured that you believed meant that that`s why the doctors kept her there.
PINSKY: Kept her there. Yes. And manufactured. What if she`s punching herself in the face and hitting her head on the wall, which is what I suspect is happening in there.
EIGLARSH: Right. Because she once read that that`s what you got to do.
BLOOM: You know she`s not doing that. Maybe she`s doing headstands.
BLOOM: Can I get a word in on this?
PINSKY: Lisa, go.
BLOOM: I hate to say this, but I agree with Mark Eiglarsh.
BLOOM: All she had to do was say I want to die. She goes in. When she gets in -- there she is. That`s what she does. She doesn`t hit herself in the head. She does head stands.
When she gets into the psych ward, she continues to repeat, yes, I want to die. Yes, death is freedom, blah-blah, blah. And they keep her there.
And it`s not like they do a blood test for suicidality.
PINSKY: But, Lisa, she`s not going to see Dr. Samuels and Diane Lafayette in there. She`s going to see professionals that are used to manipulating, obfuscating criminals who are not going to fall to her B.S. because that`s their job.
KAVINOKY: Of course, they`re going to default to that, they`re going to default to protecting her there for their own protection because of liability concerns if nothing else.
PINSKY: OK. Let`s call her out on that. If he wants to talk about suicide, back in the hole, back in the hole. Every time. And while she`s there, she` be evaluated by professionals, who are licensed, who have regulatory agencies looking over them, making sure they`re not over utilizing psychiatric facilities, pathologizing a criminal. You can`t do that.
BLOOM: But, Drew, what do you mean by the hole? The psych ward is probably a lot nicer than the jail.
PINSKY: She -- if you remember, she described as a place she has to strip down because she can`t even use her clothing to tie around her night so suffocate himself. Everything has to be off.
BLOOM: Initially, but she`s not naked the whole time. It`s referable to jail for most people. And so, sometimes people lie to get in there, like they lie to get into a hospital.
PINSKY: Turn your fog on.
KAVINOKY: Don`t you think she`s so -- hold on. Don`t you think she`s so manipulate, still in controlling, that she would try this reverse psychology to say, I want death, I want to die, just because she knows those jurors hate her so much they`ll give her life.
PINSKY: This is a proven borderline. Borderline is something on projective identification. I did a whole behavior bureau on this last night. What she`s saying is I want to die, so I have a murderous rage, I`m going to put it on you so you kill me and it will be your fault that I die.
Or if I kill myself it`s your fault too. It`s my murderous rage that I`m putting on you. We`re all driven crazy by this woman. She`s invading our bodies with her emotions.
EIGLARSH: Play the voice mail, Drew. Play the voice mail. Play it.
PINSKY: And by the way.
EIGLARSH: Please, exhibit A.
PINSKY: In exhibit A, she is a manipulative murder. We`re all in agreement about this. There`s no disagreement --
EIGLARSHI: Oh, good, good.
PINSKY: You guys take issue with the function of a hospital and a hospital somehow abusing their privilege as professionals succumbing to the manipulations of this witch. That`s all I`m saying.
Here is the voice message. She left this voice message for KASZ for the reporter who did this -- remember the report that we`re all reacting to after the verdict. This is the voice mail that set that all up. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ARIAS: Hi, Troy, Jodi Arias. I just wanted to let you know a deal is a deal kind of thing. I regret saying that but I`m a person of my word. So I`ll our keep our deal. But I want to let you know if the jury does come up with first degree, could you come down to the jail right away? Because I`m not sure how things are going to go. Well, I have an idea, but I don`t want to wait.
So I tend to get back from court around 6:00, 6:30. So, if you can come down that way, that`s cool. We can go for it. If it`s second degree or less, I`ll wait until after sentencing. If it`s first degree, you can come down right away. If it`s second degree or less, we`ll wait until after.
That`s that. Got to go. Take care, bye.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Take care says Jodi. Jenny, react.
HUTT: OK. First of all, she planned this whole thing. She kind of knows how things are going to go. Let`s start with that --
PINSKY: It`s the secret. Positive mental attitude.
HUTT: Wait, wait, wait. I have to say one more thing because I`m going to burst. Dr. Drew, when you said you think she`s punching herself in the face, there`s no way she`s going to damage that. Let me start with that.
When she was trying to prove that she was abuse, what did she do? She had a bent finger.
HUTT: This woman is just -- oh.
PINSKY: Piece of work.
Mark, go. Your exhibit A, have it. Let`s go.
EIGLARSH: Yes. I mean, what I`m hearing is cunning, narcissistic, self centered.
EIGLARSH: Not someone, not someone who is genuinely suffering from a psychiatric issue at that moment. She`s planning this whole thing.
EIGLARSH: And you are drinking the gullible and buying along with the whole thing.
PINSKY: Speaking of my gullible I want to read you a couple tweets. I want to read at least two of them. The outside, the Twitter verse had a reaction to this. Let`s see if I can get --
EIGLARSH: Oh, yes, they did.
PINSKY: I know you were enjoying it. I could hear you chuckling as I was sleeping last night.
EIGLARSH: Listen, I am not addicted to my right to be right. I know I am, but it doesn`t matter to me.
PINSKY: You don`t have to be addicted. You`re always right. Who cares?
Nikki wrote, headline should be Jodi Arias manipulates Dr. Drew.
Another one. Pamela says: She`s a player, Dr. Drew, and you`re playing into her hands, OMG.
I`m going to finish with this one thing. I get it, guys. There`s no disagreement.
What I`m saying is I`m putting my faith and support on the professionals at a hospital, inside of jail. It`s serving a different population than a hospital outside. But it has the same licensing, the same regulatory agencies, the same professionals, and they will not fall for this B.S.
It`s not Dr. Samuels and Lafayette working at that hospital. If they need to keep her, they will keep her. If they do not, they will not.
I take issue with people taking aim at them. That`s my whole point. That`s it. We`re done. We have to go on.
Jodi is getting to be an expert at playing this game, the blame game. Behavior bureau is going to weigh in on that.
And later, the Ohio kidnapping case. The suspect`s own daughter says she never wants to speak to him again. We`ll have more of her interview, after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDNTIFIED MALE: Hi, Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling right now?
ARIAS: Um, nervous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is time for my behavior bureau.
Back with my co-host. Jenny, have you all recovered from that interaction we had with Mr. Eiglarsh.
HUTT: I`m OK.
PINSKY: We`ll move on.
Joining us, forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt, psychotherapist Eris Huemer, the man who dated Jodi, Jodi Arias, of course, Abe Abdelhadi, and clinical psychologist, Ramani Durvasula, author of "You are Why You Eat: Change Your Food, Attitude, Change your Life".
Now I want you to watch this tape. We`re going to react. This tape from Phoenix station KASZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: There`s a lot of regret because I was really hoping to get a plea and avoid talking about all of the things that came out about him. If we had been able to avoid trial, we could have avoided just the murkier aspects of his life that he kept hidden. And these aren`t things that just came from mouth. They`re his own words, his own emails, his own text messages, the activities that he was up to, photographs that show that as well.
Even though he was living the life of a hypocrite, that`s not how he wanted to be perceived.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Cheryl, I`m going to start with you. In that little piece of tape, she gets in a dig not only at the state, but she gets to victimize the victim again.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, she does, Dr. Drew. And we`ve been talking a lot about one of the defense mechanisms that borderline people tend to use, but we`ve been having all these demonstrations of the other really big one. It`s not hitting yourself in the face, but it rhymes with hitting -- splitting.
ARUTT: Splitting and projective identification. And splitting, I have to say, is something that you and Mark so nicely demonstrated an example of just now. You`re responding to the borderline piece. Mark`s responding to the sociopathic piece. And when he hears you with your compassion for the borderline piece, he`s saying, oh, he`s forgetting about the sociopath. And when he speaks to the sociopath, you think he`s not respecting the mental health professionals.
ARUTT: She`s got you split.
PINSKY: Now my splitting -- I do see it. Eris, I`m going to let me mental health professionals ring in on this. Eris, what do you think about that theory?
ERIS HUEMER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: This is what is so difficult about borderline personality disorder is that people who have this diagnosis can be infuriating to the regular people, because you don`t understand the ups and downs and the mental instability and the emotional instability, and who they are as a person because they are so insecure.
And right here, Jodi is in a borderline personality rage right now where she is a victim, where everybody is out to get her. And now the lawyers and everybody else involved are going to be her emotional trash can. So, she`s in complete victimhood. And it`s so hard to understand because you want her to take responsibility for what she did, but she does have this mental illness.
PINSKY: That prevents her from doing that. Ramani, I see you nodding your head as well.
RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Jodi Arias has turned mental illness into an infectious disease. And even you are vulnerable --
PINSKY: That`s the borderline thing.
DURVASULA: You sit close enough to her for long enough, and you`re going to start feeling as crazy. That`s why she can work the system with everybody probably since she was pretty young. So, here we are again. So, absolutely. The splitting, the projection and all that, but she has that beautiful top note of sociopathy. So just when you want to sympathize for her, she goes in with a lie. She`s a really dangerous combination. First- degree murderer, first-degree liar.
PINSKY: I just want to applaud my behavior bureau. I hope everyone got what you -- can digest what you guys just laid out, because you get it, Jenny? You understand what they laid out?
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Can I just put it in regular terms?
PINSKY: Please, then, I`ll go to Abe.
HUTT: OK. She`s a dipsy-doodler. She doodles her words, consumed (ph) her needs. She changes it around. That`s just -- oh, I can`t -- I hate her!
PINSKY: That`s what they do. Stuff comes off of her into you. Abe, put it in your terms.
ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI ARIAS: Well, first of all, kudos to you for playing the anti-fan letters. It shows that you`re truly objective and you truly really care about the people. So, you know, let`s be honest there in the beginning.
PINSKY: Thanks, Abe.
ABDELHADI: But candidly speaking, I think she basically cribbed (INAUDIBLE) for her notes, that manifesto she`s writing is straight out of the dictator`s playbook. She`s out of her mind. The society is after her. You`re a CPA. Minding your own business and society just wants to hate you. I get the clinician stuff. And I get that, you know, you guys are professionals. I`m a layman in these matters.
To me, if you hold up a pen and say it`s a banana, then you`re insane. If God said drown your five kids, then you`re insane, which she did and actually trying to trash the guy (ph), even though a jury of her peers, quote/unquote "unanimously gave her premeditated murder/death." There wasn`t a single nay sayer. She still has to trash the guy.
ABDELHADI: The jury didn`t buy your lies. We didn`t buy your lies. She lied from the beginning. And by the way, one last little tidbit of info, because I knew her, one of the biggest problems that she`s got is she`s always ever looked for easy. Anytime we ever talked, the first 15 minutes of our conversation was always how can she do this business easier? How can she make it easier? How can she hit the top levels easier.
She`s always looking for the easy way to go. Easy doesn`t exist. Simple exists, but she can never absorb that, because she`s looking for easy. It`s a --
PINSKY: I think --
ABDELHADI: And she lived it so long and so hard, and now, she`s out of her mind.
PINSKY: I think that might be that sociopath piece that Ramani mentioned. Thank you, guys.
Next up, Travis Alexander opened up to a close friend about Jodi just days before he was murdered. Why he says, this friend says, Travis was sucked into the web of a demented woman?
And later, more gruesome details are emerging in the Ohio kidnapping case. And we have an abuse survivor, a friend, who has her perspective after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were called to testify in Ms. Arias` behalf, would you be happy about that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I would not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she murdered my friend in cold blood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Jenny, that was a notable moment in the trial for me. He just sort of said it all with one phrase that kind of cuts through. Joining us, attorneys Mark Eiglarsh and Lisa Bloom and joining us as well for his first interview, one of Travis` close friends, Tony Hughes. Now, Tony, you spoke to Travis only days before he was murdered. He opened up to you about Jodi`s bizarre behavior. Tell us about that.
TONY HUGHES, CLOSE FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: You bet, Dr. Drew. It`s an honor to be on your show. And Travis, I`d invited him to come down to Tucson where I live and to be a guest speaker at an event with Prepaid Legal Back in 2008 just a few weeks before he was murdered. And he -- I invited him to stay at our home, spend the night in our home in Oro Valley, Arizona.
And he and I got in the hot tub. And we were up until probably 3:30 in the morning, several hours in the hot tub. And it was, it was just so sad to hear the torment that he had been living through for the last couple years and how grateful he was that she had moved back and was out of his life and it was amazing some of the things that he told me that night.
PINSKY: I wonder if any of my panel has questions. Mark, you have a question for Tony?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: I do. First of all, Tony, we all share in your loss. I didn`t know Travis, but I`ve come to love him through this process, so, I shared that with you. I did want to ask you, whether she gets death or not, I believe in this case and most criminal cases where the death penalty is being ask for has so much to do with what the victim`s family wants.
I`m curious based on what you know of Travis, do you think that he would have wanted her to go to the death chamber or life in prison?
HUGHES: If, for no other reason than his religious beliefs, I think that he would have opted for her to go to the death chamber.
PINSKY: Oh, no kidding. That`s interesting. Lisa, your question?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Well, I`m curious as to what Travis told you about Jodi when you sat and talked with him in the hot tub that night.
HUGHES: Well, I mean, everything. About the times he couldn`t prove, but he, you know, had his BMW tires slashed twice, all four tires, you know, about -- just the times that she would show up at his home. He`s sleeping, and he hears his vacuum cleaner going, and Jodi`s out there vacuuming his floor. You know, all the times that she just showed up totally unwanted. He was just expressing to me, you know, just he wanted to change his life.
And he believed that he finally could do that. But just, you know, all the odd behavior. I remember one time, Travis was supposed to speak at one of my events in Phoenix, and I texted him about ten minutes before, and I said, hey brother, where are you? And he said, man, I`m really sorry. I`m out in the parking lot of the hotel.
I`ve got Jodi in my car -- or in her car because when I woke up this morning, all four of my tires were slashed and we`re having a, you know, pretty heated discussion right now. And he never did show up to the event. I called him later. And he said, yes, I was just in no mood to come in and be a speaker that day. I`m really sorry that that happened, Tony. Just crazy stuff like that always happening.
PINSKY: Tony, again, we are so sorry for your loss. Please, thank you for joining us and send our regards on to the family. Hopefully, they will see this thing through and they can feel satisfaction and return to their lives.
HUGHES: Thank you, Dr. Drew. Appreciate it.
PINSKY: All right. Guys, next up, the Ohio kidnapping suspect`s daughter shares what she knew about her father.
And later, a victim of abduction and sexual abuse will join me with a message for the young women who`ve survived.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGIE GREGG, ARIEL CASTRO`S DAUGHTER: My father`s actions are not a reflection of everyone in the family. They`re definitely not a reflection myself or my children. We don`t have monster in our blood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. A very profound statement, Jenny. The man was, is a monster, but didn`t necessarily transmit that to his other family members. Angie Gregg`s dad, he is the Ohio man accused of having held three women captive for a decade, some other times in chains. Those stories are chilling. Tonight, officials confirmed he had fathered a six-year-old daughter with one of his victims. Here is more of CNNs exclusive interview with Ariel Castro`s daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGG: He showed me a picture that was in his cell phone, randomly. And he said, look at this cute little girl. It was a face shot. And I said, she`s cute. Who is that? You know, and he said this is my girlfriend`s child. And I said, dad, that girl looks like Emily. Emily`s my younger sister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, my God. Back with us, Mark Eiglarsh, Eris Huemer. I mean, guys, does anybody else get that knot in their stomach just hearing about this story? It`s unreal.
HUEMER: This is so horrifying.
PINSKY: OK. So, I want to take this conversation over to Adrianne. Adrianne Curry, she was the first winner of "America`s Next Top Model." She`s going to share a story. And Adrian, I appreciate you being here and joining us this today. You and I have discussed this in the past in radio broadcast and whatnot, but I really want to get you in here because you have a hair raising tale to tell, and I hope some messages of support for these young women that have survived.
ADRIANNE CURRY, FIRST WINNER OF "AMERICA`S NEXT TOP MODEL": Actually, when I was, I believe, between the ages of 12 and 13 that summer, I turned 13 in August, I was date raped by someone that I was interested in was much older than me. And being the good little Catholic girl I was, I thought, well, now that I had sex, obviously, I have to marry this guy, because I was young and naive.
And, he was very sadistic and crazy. And, he used to chain me in his closet and torture me in there. So, when I heard about what happened in Ohio, like, my heart goes out to these girls because what I suffered only for a summer. They`ve suffered for a decade. And I can`t even wrap my mind around what kind of strength it takes to pull yourself through, because in my situation, I almost killed myself a few times in my teens.
So, I look at them. And I`m like, these women are so strong to have not done something to themselves in this situation.
PINSKY: Eris, you have a question for Adrienne?
HUEMER: Yes. It`s just -- I feel so much empathy as well and I`m so sorry to hear about your story. I mean, to have to go through any sort of torture like that is excruciatingly painful, and it follows you for the rest of your life. And you have to be in therapy or work on it to get through this pain. What would you suggest for these girls to work through their situation? Do you have any advice to give them?
CURRY: I do. Number one, relationships like with a guy. Yes, just throw those off to the side for the next five plus years. You don`t even need to go there. I`ve spent 16 years in intensive counseling. And I`d say the first six years I didn`t listen because I was young. I was a teenager. But, the last ten has really helped me. And it`s a process. And it`s going to be your whole life, like they will have this affect them forever.
Like, I still have, you know, night terrors from PTSD and moments like when, let`s say just my dad gives me a bear hug and just feeling that I can`t get out of this feeling will trigger me. And there will be triggers in their lives. But all I have to say is counseling, counseling, counseling. Nobody has the tools to get through something like this, especially since this happened to them at such a young age.
And they were so impressionable. And obviously, this guy is a psychotic freak and was probably very manipulative as mine was.
CURRY: And it`s going to take a lot of work to work that manipulation out of their brains. And, I wouldn`t be surprised if they start feeling uncomfortable outside that environment. And not that they`ll miss it, but their brains will be like -- it was the same reason I would go back to this guy that would torture me was like --
PINSKY: You get bonded to the trauma. You get bonded -- it`s what the Stockholm syndrome is basically based on. You get bonded to your perpetrator. You get bonded to the trauma. Adrienne, I really do appreciate you sharing this story. And I`ve two other things to add with that. We should all offer our support to the other sort of collateral damage this guy has caused. Again, like Jodi, there`s lots of collateral damage.
The daughter who`s been courageous enough to speak up, her children. We need to support them, because this monster is affecting them as well. And let`s finish this one. Let`s get a conviction on this guy, too. This guy is a murderer and an absolute monster. Adrienne, stay with me. Panels, stay with me. I`ve got a reporter from Ohio who`s going to give us an update on the story after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGG: I can`t forgive him. Like there`s no way, you know? The main emotion that I have besides gratitude that these girls are home is disgust. You know, when I, when I really sit down and start thinking about him, I literally want to vomit. But he was so deceptive to where I never picked up on it, and family members never picked up on it. I mean, he -- he was good at it. He was good at hiding it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny Hutt back with me. Angie Gregg there, the daughter of this monster. Very appropriate on her part. Very appropriate statements.
Also joining us, Mark Eiglarsh, Eris Huemer, and the -- and we`ve got Adrianne Curry as well who`s still with me. Laurie Segall is the CNN correspondent who interviewed Castro`s daughter. She is on phone with us now. Laurie, do you have -- did the Angie have any suspicions at all? She says no, but looking back, did she have any suspicions about the dad`s secret life?
VOICE OF LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, look, right now, when we spoke to her, she said at the time, I had no idea. He was a great grandfather. She actually showed me pictures of him with the children, and he couldn`t have seemed more loving. Now, that being said, she says as I look back, when I went to the home, he used to play music really loud.
He would never stay anywhere overnight. He would take a long time to come to the door. There were places off limits like the basement. So, she`s beginning to piece together what the terrifying puzzle, as you can imagine, knowing that -- I should mention, she was very close with her father. Many of the sisters weren`t as close as Angie.
I mean, recently, on her Facebook while she wrote "I love you daddy." She spent a lot of time at this home -- early 1990s where she was raised there, but even a couple months ago, she was there and he was cooking for her. So, now, as she hears this news, it`s horrific, but she`s beginning to see that there were signs that something wasn`t normal.
PINSKY: How does she manage this? I just wonder how she goes on? How she trust her own instincts in the future? I mean, she must be -- Jenny, she must be like reconsidering everything.
HUTT: Well, yes. Well, I think that, Dr. Drew, and then, I also wonder, and i wonder if you got to touch on this, how she`s going to address this with her children when it`s appropriate --
PINSKY: Laurie, she talked about that or she creeped out now that this guy was hanging around her own children in?
SEGALL: Listen, I asked her that question because she has two children. And I said what do you tell them? I mean, he spent so much time with these children. And she actually, yesterday, sat them down and told them what their grandfather had done. And she said, you know, one of them was old enough to understand it and was crying.
And then the younger one didn`t quite understand what was going on, but she showed me a picture of Ariel on a motorcycle with tons of children from the neighborhood around.
PINSKY: Oh boy. Oh, my god.
SEGALL: And he`s the kind of guy that people trusted him with their kids. He used to ride these children around. So, looking back, it`s terrifying.
PINSKY: Laurie, thank you so much. Last call is next. Adrianne, we`ll talk to you.
PINSKY: It is time for the last call. I`m back with co-host, Jenny Hutt. Adrianne Curry stays with us as well. Adrienne, I was watching you during the reporter, and even when the tape was playing, there was a lot of emotion rushing over you. Tell us, I`ll give you the last 45 seconds here. What are you feeling?
CURRY: I feel because I saw the way what happened to me, how that affected my family, personally. I feel for his family and all the families involved. And, I just was thinking they should probably all get into a little counseling, too, because a divorce was born from what happened to me, no.
It was going to happen anyway, but I think I escalated what was going on with my parents, but this situation can be so hard. And if left undealt with from anybody, it will fester and rot and consume you. So, I think they all need to --
PINSKY: And, you know, we`ve been talking a lot about justice and death penalties. This is a guy that needs that, do you agree?
CURRY: I do. You know --
PINSKY: Thank you, guys. Thank you to my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Thank you to Adrienne Curry for joining us as well. Reach us 24/7 at 1-855- DrDrew5 and keep it right here on HLN for complete Arias trial coverage.