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Jodi Arias Claims Photo Evidence Not Used

Aired May 13, 2013 - 20:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... jurors decide that the murder of Travis Alexander was done in a cruel way, then that opens the door for...


JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I`m not a murderer. But I guess if I were to do that, I would wear gloves, or you know, something.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: (INAUDIBLE) putting a slit (ph) in his neck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We think he`s dead. His roommate just went in there and said there`s lots of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His neck had been slashed from ear to ear.

MARTINEZ: Do we really need to count the number of stab wounds?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He (ph) mentioned she`d (ph) given the interview, and then all of a sudden, I get this voicemail from Jodi Arias, like, Hi, it`s Jodi.

MARTINEZ: This is an individual who is manipulative...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to call a reporter right after the conviction and have an interview. Oh, by the way, I have a death penalty hearing that`s life or death for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you running away for if you`re not guilty? (INAUDIBLE) want to be a part of it. I don`t want to (INAUDIBLE)

ARIAS: I`m all for the 10 Commandments, Thou shalt not kill.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... guilty...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... guilty...

ARIAS: I`m not guilty. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

After months of testimony, days of deliberation, the jury brings home a guilty verdict in the Jodi Arias murder one trial. Just minutes after Arias convicted, she plops herself in front of lights and cameras to tell a sob story about how she`s the victim. That`s the tip of the iceberg.

Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we uncover more of Arias`s shocking interview behind bars, making wild and unsubstantiated claims about her photos. She claims she`s got photos of Travis Alexander literally chasing down a naked 4-year-old boy. Let`s let that soak in.

She also claims that there`s hard photo evidence of Arias`s black and blue, covered in bruises, at the hands of Travis Alexander. None of these photos did she ever show the jury. We also catch Arias explaining away the gas can lies she made under oath.

And there`s more. Tonight, Arias caught on tape planning her tell-all interview while she`s still waiting on the jury`s verdict. This as Arias just moved out of the psych ward, headed back to Estrella jail. All of this is happening right now.

First of all, Jean Casarez, she`s on her way back to Estrella jail. What, she`s not crazy anymore? She`s not going to commit suicide anymore? She got over that over the weekend?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Doctors make that determination. Doctors decided that she would go from the Lower Buckeye jail where the psychiatric unit is back to Estrella jail.

But this interview Nancy, there are things in this that show her state of mind. And one of the things she says is that she wants to live.

GRACE: Absolutely, Jean. You`re right again. And there`s more, Jean, so much more. This is the tip of the iceberg, of that stunning tell- all interview. Take a listen to this.


ARIAS: There`s a photograph on my hard drive which my attorneys didn`t feel was relevant, but it`s a picture of him chasing around a naked 4-year-old boy with his Bible open, pretending to be a Catholic priest. I don`t know why. We were all hanging out. I thought it was silly at the time and I snapped the photograph. And at the time, I just thought he was mocking the Catholic church in poor taste, and then that was that.

But that was a year before I walked in on him. And so after that incident of walking in on him, I began to put all these things together, and that was one of the puzzle pieces that seems to make sense to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would have changed (ph)?

ARIAS: There was a man who saw me with bruises all over. I would have made every effort to find him, and they didn`t. There are other people who saw me with bruises, my friends, my sisters. And the defense didn`t call them for their own reasons. And I think that would have corroborated some of the things that I said.

On the hard drive that we just discussed, the one that was not part of my trial, I took pictures of myself during that time not specifically for that purpose, but just being on the road. And I just keep thinking maybe it was in that photo, tons of things.


GRACE: Who does she think we are? We didn`t just fall off the turnip truck! She is looking at that camera -- PS, that is an interview from KSAZ just moments after Arias busted, found guilty of murder one. And she is looking right into that camera and lying, just the way she did on direct examination.

Did you hear what she said, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, She says, number one, that she has hard evidence, photographic evidence, a photo on her hard drive of her murder victim, Travis Alexander, literally chasing down a naked 4-year-old boy, that she wanted to bring into evidence. But those darn defense attorneys, it`s all their fault, according to her, that she has that on her hard drive. Thoughts?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: It is never Jodi`s -- it`s never Jodi`s fault. (INAUDIBLE) But the interesting thing is, there`s nothing on this hard drive. She destroyed this hard drive. These pictures do not exist, or she would have brought them out before now or probably her family would have tried to sell them. So these pictures do not exist, and it`s just another...

GRACE: Why are you saying...


GRACE: Why are you saying she destroyed her hard drive?

TERESZCUK: I believe that that`s what the police had said when they took everything from Jodi`s grandparents` house, that there was a hard drive that was destroyed, and it was hers.

GRACE: Hold on. Is that correct, Jean Casarez? Did she destroy her hard drive?

CASAREZ: Nancy, that did not come overtly into evidence because that would produce another charge in this trial. And it may be very true, but it was not an overt part of the prosecution case that I remember at all.

GRACE: When you`re saying it`s not overt, OK, what do you mean by that? Did it come into evidence? Was it ever stated at trial her hard drive was destroyed?

CASAREZ: I don`t remember it, no.

GRACE: Alexis, when did it come out that her hard drive was destroyed? Because I don`t remember it, either. And I`m certainly not saying it`s not true. I mean, I`ve been listening to evidence since January, but I think I would have remembered if I knew Arias had destroyed her hard drive. What was that all about?

TERESZCUK: I believe that it was reported that she had a hard drive that was absolutely destroyed and there was nothing that could be taken off of that.

GRACE: OK, I`m going to look into that right now. New York, hop on that for me.

OK, did you hear that, Jean Casarez, she`s claiming that she has hard evidence, photos, of Travis Alexander chasing a naked 4-year-old boy? That is...

CASAREZ: OK, Nancy...

GRACE: ... stunning and unsubstantiated.

CASAREZ: And maybe it`s not relevant. Maybe it`s not relevant at all because maybe he was chasing a little boy. Maybe the little boy happened to have no clothes, but there`s no sexual intent there. There`s nothing that was inappropriate at the moment because she says the attorneys said the picture wasn`t relevant.

GRACE: Because Jean...

CASAREZ: We`re not going to even try to put it in. What?

GRACE: How many pictures of the twins in the bathtub, my twins in the bathtub, have I sent to you because I they`re so wonderful and they`re so cute and they`re so great? You know, you really -- you really just made...


GRACE: ... a good point.


GRACE: ... not the way she`s describing it in this interview.

CASAREZ: Jodi took the picture. Jodi took the picture.

GRACE: According to her.

CASAREZ: You wouldn`t take a picture like that.

GRACE: No. And then also, Matt Zarrell, she`s also claiming in this interview that we just ran for you from KSAZ out in Arizona -- she claims that she has all this evidence, photographic evidence witnesses that saw her literally black and blue at the hands of her tormenter, Travis Alexander.

I mean, she just can`t shut up, can she. She can`t take -- she can`t digest it that the jury did not believe her, and she`s still going at it!

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): And Nancy, it`s not just that she`s going at it. She is using it to directly blame her defense team. She said her friends and sisters all had evidence, but the defense didn`t call them for their own reasons.

GRACE: That`s not all, everyone. You thought you had seen it all? Well, that`s the tip of the iceberg. More of that interview with KSAZ. This is just after she gets convicted, more shocking and unsubstantiated claims by Jodi Arias. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people are accusing you of tearing down a dead man`s reputation.

ARIAS: I would have been very happy to go quietly into the night off to prison. My defense team decided to rip the lid off because we were forced to trial. The state didn`t want to settle. So it`s not that I wanted to plow ahead and do this. But I took the stand because, strategically, they advised me to, and when I was on the stand, I had to tell -- I had to answer the questions that were posed to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s talk about the gas cans. That`s another thing that keeps being brought up all the time. Was there a third gas can?

ARIAS: There was when I originally purchased it, but I really did return it. I got $13 and change back. And I went on my way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people are saying who -- who carries gas in the trunk of their car?

ARIAS: I didn`t fill it up until I realized I was going to be driving across the desert on a highway alone that I`d never driven at night. And it`s something that we began to do when I moved to the desert because they didn`t want to get stranded somewhere. Just being on the coast, 120 degrees is a shock to your system. So we sort of would travel with provisions and things like that, so -- not always gas, but I was taking a road that I had never traveled before. And suddenly, being safe was more important than saving a few dollars for gas, which was my initial goal.


GRACE: You`re seeing more of that interview from KSAZ. This is just moments after Arias found guilty of murder one.

All right, let`s debunk what she just said. And let me tell Jean Casarez and Alexis Tereszcuk that you`re both right about the hard drive. It was destroyed, but they could get information off of it. It was partially destroyed. They could still get some information off of it. So you`re both actually 100 percent right.

Let`s debunk what she just said. Number one, she says she wanted to go quietly into the night, but the defense team decided to, quote, "rip the lid off because we were forced to trial." Beth Karas, isn`t it true that before they went to trial, she tried to plead guilty to murder two? Isn`t that right?

BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Yes. Yes, that`s the way it works here. The defendant makes an offer. The state didn`t accept it. I don`t think the state counter-offered, though, because the state`s always been seeking death. Their counter could have been, you know, first degree with life without parole. But they want death. So she`s not going to plead to that. Anyway...

GRACE: So bottom line...


KARAS: ... she would never get death, and there was no incentive to plead to a life without parole.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Dwane Cates joining us from the courthouse, Arizona, Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, Miami. Bottom line, Bradford, for her saying, They forced me to go to trial -- well, if she had pled to murder one, then maybe not. But that is completely inaccurate. The state did not force her to go to trial. They just didn`t want her plea that she offered where she could actually walk in about seven years.

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Correct. And that`s usually how a lot of states work, is that the defendant makes an offer.

GRACE: Right.

COHEN: If the state doesn`t accept it, and they don`t have to, then they`re not forcing her to trial.

GRACE: You know...

COHEN: She`s going to trial.

GRACE: And also, all this business -- she`s still trying, Dwane Cates, to convince me about those gas cans? You know what? She`s convicted of murder one. She could be facing the Arizona death penalty. And she`s sucking up her time going, You know, I really did return that gas can. Let it go!

DWANE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know what? She is the poster child for why you shouldn`t let your clients get on -- do interviews at any time, let alone just after you -- you`ve been convicted of first degree murder. She threw her defense team under the bus, and these are the people that are going to be trying to save her life. And she`s done nothing since the beginning of this thing but throw them curveballs that they`ve got to dodge.

GRACE: Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, more of Arias`s shocking interview from behind bars, wild, unsubstantiated claims about Travis Alexander chasing a naked boy, hard evidence of her black and blue, even still trying to explain away the gas can lies. And she`s busted on tape planning her tell-all interview.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there jealousy?

ARIAS: On my end, not some jealousy, maybe a sense of insecurity.


ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) next girlfriend. We`d have lots of fights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis was one of the nicest and kindest men I`ve ever met. He was the type of guy that you just wanted to be around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You slit his throat as a reward for being a good man.

Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear to ear?


SANDY ARIAS, MOTHER: How could she (INAUDIBLE) and then when her friends called (INAUDIBLE) she totally freaked out, like she knew nothing about it. I mean, how could somebody do that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she`s Jodi Arias. And that`s what happens in the world of Jodi Arias.


GRACE: Welcome back. We uncovered more of that shocking interview. Just moments after she`s convicted of Travis`s murder, she plops down in front of lights and camera for a tell-all interview, making wild and unsubstantiated claims about her murder victim, still trying to convince us all that he`s a pedophile, also trying to clarify all of her gas can lies, claiming that there are actually bruises (sic) of her black and blue at the hands of Travis Alexander that she and her defense team chose not to put into evidence.

And there`s more of that interview. She`s also busted on tape trying to arrange her tell-all interview. And what`s so stunning about that on tape-bust is that at the moment she`s caught on tape planning her tell-all interview, she`s waiting for the jury`s verdict. The jury had not come in yet.

With me right now, Mike Bertot, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander, overheard Travis arguing with Arias on the telephone. Mike, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Mike, I`m kind of knocked out by Travis explaining to you how he was so distressed when Arias decided to move back to Mesa, that he did not want her to move back, he told her not to move back, she moved back anyway. She would actually get into his home by coming through the doggie door?

BERTOT: Yes. There were lots of stories about times when she was sneaking around his house, you know, even sneaking into it. And he would find her there, you know, late at night. You know, I heard one person talk about a story that he relayed to them of she was vacuuming his house in the middle of the night. So just really, really creepy behavior all the way around.

GRACE: You spent three or four hours with him in a truck back in August, and during that time, she and Alexander were going at it on the phone and on texts. What were they arguing about?

BERTOT: Travis was just arguing with her and she was arguing back about her moving to Mesa after they had broken up. This is the first time I actually learned about this. And yes, we were in the truck for a few hours, and it was text messages and phone calls.

And a lot of what I heard, you know, on Travis`s end was just, you know, Why did you move there? We`re not together. We`re not going to be together anymore. You have no reason to be there. You know, there`s no other reason for you to move to Mesa but for me, so stop making those excuses, and you know, just tell me why you did it. And it went on like that way for hours.

GRACE: You know, Mike, one of the photos that you showed us -- you met up with Travis at one of the conventions, and you thought, as you said, it was an Arias-free weekend.

Liz, do you have that shot?

And then you look at photos taken of you with him, or just him, and suddenly, there`s Arias, kind of like smiling at the camera in the background. And only then did you realize she was there.

BERTOT: Yes. When we showed up that weekend, I actually had lunch with Travis and Jodi the day before that picture was taken. And for the first time in a long time, it seemed like they were, in fact, just friends. And you know, it wasn`t the normal Jodi that we`ve seen around Travis before.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Verdict, count one...

MARTINEZ: ... when you were in the Maricopa County jail, that you tried to kill yourself, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First degree murder, guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008.

ARIAS: Yes, I did.


ARIAS: The simple answer is that he attacked me.


ARIAS: Because I`d never killed anyone before.


MARTINEZ: So what you`re telling us is that you left him to die, didn`t you?



GRACE: This on the heels of learning Arias is now out of the cushy psych ward, where she was, and she`s been sent back to Estrella jail, as we proceed forward to aggravation phase. At aggravation phase, which is two of three potential phases, the state has one thing and one thing only to prove, that the murder of Travis Alexander was done in a cruel way. That`s all the jury`s looking at. If they determine that cruelty is proven versus unproven, the state will proceed to sentencing phase.

Jean, when did she arrive back to Estrella?

CASAREZ: Well, it was several hours ago that her mother went there to try to visit her. And her mother is the one that got the information that she was being transported. So I think it`s any time possible, but it`s -- today is Monday and it is Wednesday that is that first phase. So doctors decided two days ahead of when the aggravation phase is to start that she was able to get out of the psychiatric unit.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias could join other women currently sitting on Arizona`s death row, one of the nation`s busiest death chambers. The state carries out all post-1992 convictions by lethal injection, and now permits witnesses to watch prisoners put to death.

Its courts recently gave the green light for witnesses to observe the entire execution process, including insertion of the lethal IV. Arizona courts further OK`d a one-drug dose of pentobarbital as the method for death. But the state is said to have only enough supply of the drug to carry out one more execution before it`s forced to find an alternative.

Convicted rapist and double murderer Dale Stokely (ph) was put to death by prison officials who delivered his lethal injection by cutting into his groin area, this in efforts to find an artery suitable for delivering the drug. The femoral catheter procedure is standard alternative (inaudible).


GRACE: That`s jumping the gun. We have got two phases to get to before we even consider the death penalty. First of all, a very brief phase, aggravation, where the state must prove the murder of Travis Alexander was committed in a cruel way. If it is, according to this jury, then we go to penalty phase, where the jury will decide sentencing, life or death.

Welcome back, everybody. We are taking your calls. We are live, camped out at the courthouse. The tip of the iceberg was last week following that guilty verdict for Arias when Arias plopped down in front of the cameras to give a tell-all interview. There`s more, there is more of that. Shocking and unsubstantiated claims made by Arias behind bars. Arias also busted, caught on tape, planning her tell-all interview as she`s waiting for the verdict. Take a listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing you like to get out to all those people.

ARIAS: I guess what I really want to say is to other women who are in a situation that I was once in, and it`s like I just said, I really just, I wish they would just document it. That`s it. You don`t have to do anything with it. You don`t have to turn the person you love in, you don`t have to do anything, just document it just in case. It`s better to have it and not need it than the opposite.

And again, I think that things would be very different right now if I had documented all of the things that I went through, instead of being in a state of denial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your artwork is all over the place. Do you take pride in the fact that people are paying money for your art?

ARIAS: It`s interesting. I take pride just not so much in the price tag but in the way I have developed the gift itself, or the talent, I should say. I take pride in that. I`m just -- I am happy that I`m able to share it with the world.


GRACE: That`s from KSAZ just moments after Arias found guilty in the slaughter of an unarmed man, her lover, Travis Alexander. Her artwork? Out to you, Alexis Tereszcuk, you first uncovered her artwork is a big scam, she basically traces magazine ads. Take a look at this one. Alexis, it`s kind of almost like a Star of David, there you go. That`s online for $3,000. There`s another one, let`s see the butterfly. Well, butterflies are not free in this case, this one will cost you $1,500.

You know, I wonder where she traced that. Then we have got the others, there is the woman in the hat that she traced from a Dior ad. There`s the cowboy kissing the girl, which is -- it looks like a Guess ad, I think it is. Then there are the lips, I don`t know where they came from. $3,000 for two pyramids on top of each other? Help me out here, Alexis.

TERESZCUK: Exactly, and you know what, Nancy, they sold. People have purchased this. All of Jodi`s artwork has sold out. She`s not printing multiple copies of them or anything, but her original artwork has sold. There are people out there that are paying this money. And the thing is, she is not supposed to be making anymore money. She has now been convicted of a crime and she`s not allowed to profit. But she has this artwork, and she`s pulled out artwork from high school, she`s pulled out old artwork that I guess her family got her from home. And she`s been selling stuff from the `90s. And she`s really proud of this.

GRACE: As we told you earlier, in addition to more of this interview, an incredible interview by KSAZ. I still can`t believe that she did this interview just moments after being convicted, but we have also found her caught on tape planning her tell-all interview. Take a listen. Arias caught on tape.


ARIAS: Hi, Troy. Jodi Arias. It`s Sunday. I just wanted to let you know a deal is a deal kind of thing. I regret saying that, but I`m a person of my word, so I`ll keep our deal, but I also wanted to let you know, if for some reason the jury comes back with first degree, could you come down to the jail right away, because I`m not sure how things are going to go. I have an idea, but I don`t want to wait, so. I tend to get back from court around 6/6:30, so if the jail approves you coming down that late, then that`s cool. We can go for it. If it`s second degree or less, I will wait until after sentencing. But if it`s first degree, for some reason, come down right away. But like I said, second degree or less, wait until after. So, that`s that. Gotta go. Take care, bye.


GRACE: That`s from KSAZ, Jodi Arias`s voicemail setting up her on- camera interview, this is Sunday, while she`s waiting for the jury to return the verdict. The verdict hasn`t come in yet, and she`s as cool as a cucumber, ordering this guy around as to where he should be, under this condition and that condition. Play it for me again, please, Justin. I want to hear this. What about it? Out to you, Greg Caisson, psychologist, L.A. She`s waiting on the jury to decide her fate, and she`s ordering Troy, the reporter, around like he`s some flunky, telling him where to be, if it`s murder one, do this, if it`s murder two, if it`s voluntary. If it`s voluntary, then I`m going to wait for sentencing, because I sure as hell don`t want this jury to see this interview if I`ve got a chance at a light sentence. That`s what`s going down.

Can you roll it for me again, please, Justin?


ARIAS: Hi, Troy. Jodi Arias. It`s Sunday. I just wanted to let you know a deal is a deal kind of thing. I regret saying that, but I`m a person of my word, so I`ll keep our deal, but I also wanted to let you know, if for some reason the jury comes back with first degree, could you come down to the jail right away, because I`m not sure how things are going to go. I have an idea, but I don`t want to wait, so. I tend to get back from court around 6/6:30, so if the jail approves you coming down that late, then that`s cool. We can go for it. If it`s second degree or less, I will wait until after sentencing. But if it`s first degree, for some reason, come down right away. But like I said, second degree or less, wait until after. So, that`s that. Gotta go. Take care, bye.


GRACE: That`s from KSAZ, Jodi Arias voicemail, setting up her own on- camera interview. So all along, she was planning to do it immediately after the verdict, if it was a murder one verdict. Greg Caisson, you`re the shrink. What is this?

CAISSON: I think it takes a lot to make Jodi Arias upset, and that has proven over and over again. She was as cool as a cucumber here. If she was obviously just trying one more tactic to help herself out so that she could get a lighter sentence, rather than her waiting around for him, she was just going to go forward and let things be if it was the second degree. But first degree, then she wanted to obviously mitigate factors. But I think there`s another possibility here, maybe she was thinking of suicide. Although I don`t buy that.

GRACE: Beth Karas, I don`t think this has anything at all to do with suicide. I think she`s trying to manipulate the reporter, the KSAZ reporter. Because she had a different scenario based on each verdict outcome.

KARAS: Correct. After the sentencing, the judge decides sentencing for second degree or manslaughter. Jury decides sentencing if it`s first degree, and she wanted information to get out there. Maybe she is trying to reach jurors, I don`t know. But, Nancy, I have to look into this. I`m suspicious about how she was able to leave a voicemail. Troy Hayden wasn`t answering his phone. She got to leave a voicemail. This had to have been a three-way call, I think.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seeing her lie after lie --

ARIAS: I didn`t mean to shoot him or anything. I didn`t even think I was pulling the trigger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s you lying, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not true, right?

ARIAS: That`s not true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lie after lie after lie, it`s gross.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The aggravation phase in her case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of these lies there are -- so that you could escape responsibility.

ARIAS: Yes, so I could escape.


GRACE: After last week`s verdict of murder one and then the stunning on-air interview that Jodi Arias gave in the moments following her conviction, we now learn that she had manipulated the whole thing, that she was calling shots even from behind the bars. You could hear the jailhouse chatter behind her as she`s ordering the KSAZ reporter around in the event of various verdicts. If it`s murder one, if it`s murder one, if it`s voluntary, how she wanted the whole thing to unfold, basically orchestrating her own close-up from behind bars.

And boy, does she drop bombshells during that interview, things we have not heard before, claims she has hard photographic evidence of Travis Alexander literally chasing down a naked 4-year-old boy to aid her claims, her false claims, I might add, that he was a pedophile, claims that there were photos of her that showed her black and blue at the hands of Travis Alexander, that there were witnesses to support that. Mysterious, interesting that none of this evidence was produced at trial.

We are taking your calls. Out to Terri in Oklahoma. Hi, Terri, what`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. First of all, let me say thank you for recognizing our fallen heroes.

My question is, is I don`t know how long it takes for them to do the last two phases of her death penalty. But do you think that maybe Jodi is prolonging all this? Because I noticed that it`s less than three weeks, or around three weeks before this anniversary death of Travis. That she`s thinking maybe I gave him the death penalty on June 4, and that`s when I want mine too?

GRACE: Well, the death penalty, even if it is handed down, wouldn`t happen for years and years and years. You know, but you make an interesting point, Terri in Oklahoma. I`m sure that she has that date in mind. What she`s going to do with it, I don`t know. But she knows the date. If you and I know the date, she knows the date too. But her death penalty, if that ever does happen, would be years from now. I`m talking 20, 25, 27 years from now.

I want to go back to the lines, but with me, speaking of the death penalty, Kathy Clifton is with us. She`s the stepdaughter of the last woman executed in the United States. That would be Teresa Lewis out of Virginia. Lewis convicted in the murder of Kathy`s father, Julian Lewis and her brother C.J. Lewis, and she witnessed the execution of Theresa Lewis. Kathy, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Kathy, you were there, could you just tell me in a nutshell while you decided to attend the execution? I assume it was lethal injection?

CLIFTON: Yes, ma`am, it was lethal injection, and I did attend to get some closure from the trial, and I attended in lieu of my father and brother because they couldn`t be there.

GRACE: So you felt that you were there on their behalf. I can understand that.

Kathy, when your stepmother was finally executed by lethal injection, isn`t it true that with lethal injections, the defendant basically drifts off, they just go to sleep? It`s not painful, they just doze off and that`s it and they don`t wake up?

CLIFTON: Yes, ma`am, it`s almost like if you go in for surgery, how they put you to sleep before they take you into surgery, it`s actually easier than that.

GRACE: Why do you say that, Kathy?

CLIFTON: Compared to the destruction that was wrought, she just went to sleep. And she didn`t have to worry about anything. She was not in any pain. She was in a secure environment. She just went to sleep.

GRACE: Can I ask you, Kathy, in retrospect, now that you have examined it, you witnessed your stepmother`s execution after she murdered your father and your brother, how do you feel as you look back on that execution?

CLIFTON: The execution for her was entirely too easy. She didn`t suffer, she had nothing else to deal with after that. My father fought for hours before he actually passed away. My brother`s life was taken with the first shot. She went to sleep, she didn`t suffer anything. The only justice that was actually done at that point was final closure in knowing that she would have to face ultimate justice. If there is a God, she would have to face him.

GRACE: Kathy, I am always very concerned when I ask crime victims about the crime, but could you tell me one thing? Why did your stepmother kill your father and your brother?

CLIFTON: For money. For greed.

GRACE: What, insurance?

CLIFTON: Yes, ma`am. She thought my father was worth a lot more than what he actually was when she married him. My mother had passed away shortly beforehand. Obviously there wasn`t a lot of insurance, but she didn`t know that.

My oldest brother passed away ten months prior to the murder. He was active Navy, and he had a Navy life insurance policy of which my father was a beneficiary of. So that was just -- that was the instigation. And then my youngest brother, C.J., was soon to be shipped over to -- overseas to Afghanistan, and the process is in the military, they require you to do your last will and testament and update all of your insurance policies and send them to your next of kin. So that was actually sent to my father`s home, and she actually had my brother`s last will and testament in her hands.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. There is no question about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury`s going to decide, was the murder done in a cruel fashion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His neck had been slashed from ear to ear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not stab him 27 times?

ARIAS: I would never -- that`s heinous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they say yes, that opens the door to the death penalty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would either live, or she would die.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. More stunning revelations from Jodi Arias` interview on air just moments after she is convicted of murder one. We are poised and ready for the aggravation phase to begin. Out to you, Kinsey Schofield, social media strategist, Kinsey, thank you for being with us. What`s going on online? I understand that Travis and Arias supporters are basically at war?

KINSEY SCHOFIELD, SOCIAL MEDIA STRATEGIST: They are at war. And what is surprising is that although Jodi has a much smaller audience, they are so much more aggressive, so they seem a lot louder. They are creating Twitter accounts and posting pictures of Travis Alexander`s autopsy photos. And they are having Travis supporters suspended from Twitter.

GRACE: I`m very surprised that they can get their mitts on those autopsy photos and put them online.

Out to the lines, Christine, Illinois. Hi, Christine. What`s your question?

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I`m so -- you`re an angel for victims. That`s all I have to say about that.

I have two things. If I was a defense attorney, wouldn`t you have taken all these so-called people and thrown them on the stand to testify that she was a battered woman?

GRACE: Absolutely.

CALLER: And as far as that hard drive, and of that hard drive, how much, I can bet you what was on there, her manifesto from that argument she had with him, every detail of her plan to go and kill Travis. That`s why she destroyed it. Because she knew if they found it, she was done from then.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Chaplain Dale Goetz. 43, Colorado Springs. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation Medal. Mother Hope, sisters Kim and Ann. Widow Christi. Sons, Landon, Caleb and Joel. Dale Goetz, American hero.


ARIAS: I woke up, and he was on top of me. And he had already penetrated and started having sex with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She put him into a powerless state and then she went in for the kill.


GRACE: Hey, Beth Karas, I was thinking back on that moment when Arias calls the local reporter KASZ. She could have made a collect call from the jail from Jodi Arias and had them get get -- accept it and transfer.

What`s so interesting about the call is that she is manipulating everybody. This is on a Sunday night, waiting on a verdict. She`s manipulating everybody from behind bars. Instead of thinking about the verdict or God forbid, thinking about Travis Alexander, you know, six feet under, she`s planning her photo op.

KARAS: Indeed. I`ll try to find out exactly how it was made and whether she did call the newsroom or if he just found the message on his phone. You know, I -- yes, I`ll find out.

GRACE: And my question is, do you believe, Beth, that it`s going to be introduced at trial? Because if I were the prosecutor in this case, I would absolutely introduce it and show the jury, regardless of how she`s acting in front of you, this is who she really is.

KARAS: You know, that`s a really good point, and I think it`s possible. I thought that Juan Martinez might not want to use some of her statements from the interview, because, you know, he`s got enough in his opinion without that interview, he was ready to go forward. So I don`t know that he needs it, but maybe he will use the voicemail.

GRACE: Tonight, everyone, a sincere congratulations to Alicia Heinz Ward (ph), 2013 military spouse of the year, wife of Air Force Tech Sergeant Edmonton Ward (ph), representing over one million military spouses at a VIP ceremony in Washington. America`s proud. Thank you for your service.

Everyone, no court today. Dr. Drew`s up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.