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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Travis`s Family Members Give Impact Statements; What Could Jodi Say to Sway Jury?

Aired May 16, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from outside the Estrella Jail here in Phoenix, Arizona. I think you can see behind me, there is barbed wire. Well, somewhere behind that barbed wire, Jodi Arias sits in what`s essentially solitary confinement, contemplating her fate and also, hopefully, contemplating the many lives she destroyed when she killed Travis Alexander.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN ALEXANDER, TRAVIS`S BROTHER: I remember walking out the back door screaming, crying.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER, TRAVIS`S SISTER: Our lives will never, ever be the same.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: I thought my brother was bullet proof.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: Every day will never be the same.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: Who on earth would want to do this to him?

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: Our poor brother`s throat, slit from ear to ear.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: For what reasons?

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: We`ll miss his contagious laughter, his singing voice, his jokes.

STEVEN ALEXANDER: I don`t want to have to see my brother`s murderer anymore. He never got to live his dreams. He will never get to do that because he was so brutally ripped out of this world. My world.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: Travis was our strength. We can never get him back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at this. This piece of bread. This is what prisoners here are given. I`m not joking. If they miss behave, bread and water for a week or two weeks. How do I know that? Because I just did a tour of the jail and spoke to controversial sheriff, Joe Arpaio, who is going to join me right here live in just a couple of minutes.

But first, I want to talk to you about today`s victim impact statements. They were extremely emotional. First, Travis Alexander`s brother, Steven, who was serving our country in the armed forces when he got word his brother had been murdered, talked about the impact on his life. It shattered his life. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN ALEXANDER: I woke up to the sound of my wife crying, walking up the stairs. I will never forget what she said. "Samantha, I cannot tell him. You have to."

My wife handed the phone to me. It was my sister Samantha. She was crying hysterically. She told me, "Steven, Travis is dead." I thought I was dreaming. She didn`t really have any details at the time. So I just gave the phone back to my wife.

A -- a few moments later, we found out he was killed. I remember walking out that back door screaming, crying, asking why. And I sank down into a corner, and I cried some more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to HLN legal correspondent Jean Casarez. You were in court. What was it like?

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I will tell you, Jane, I think the word that comes to my mind is "authentic." It was so from the heart. The passion, the emotion, the strength, the authenticity of these two very close brother and sister of Travis. My heart bled for them, because they were shaking. I could see it when they went up.

And there wasn`t a dry eye in the house. But I will tell you, when I looked at the jury, they were very strong. They were focused. They were listening. When Travis`s brother spoke, I saw male jurors that could not make eye contact with him. They looked away. I think it was so powerful for them, they just didn`t have the courage to look eye to eye with him as he was speaking. I saw no tears, though, being shed by the jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This was gut-wrenching to listen to. You couldn`t help but want to cry.

Samantha Alexander also serving our country in a different way, as a police officer in Carlsbad, California. She spoke about the horror that descended on her life after her precious brother, Travis, was viciously killed. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: We lost our father on Travis`s 28th birthday and our mother shortly after. And through this trying time in our life, Travis was the one that got us through the pain and the hardship, because he was our strength.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Give them picture nine.

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: This is a picture of my grandmother. She`s the one that raised Travis. My grandmother could not deal with loss, could not handle the reality of what happened. Travis being taken from us has put her over the edge. And her health eventually went into a downward spiral she never recovered from. Losing Travis has completely destroyed the overall health of our family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am here with noted Arizona criminal defense attorney, Dwayne Cates. And by the way, it`s windy and 99 degrees here in Arizona, just FYI.

These impact statements, what impact are they supposed to have on the jury that is trying to decide whether to put Jodi Arias to death or let her live?

DWAYNE CATES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Jane, the jury has been watching the family for four months sit in that courtroom and watch the testimony about their loved one. And finally, they get to get up and they get to tell what he was like. Their version of what Travis Alexander was like. And it is extremely powerful for a jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How are they supposed to consider it, though? What are the -- how are they -- they have to make a determination. There`s the mitigating factors, and then there`s the victim impact statement. How are they supposed to gauge those and weigh those?

CATES: Well, you know, there`s all kinds of laws and technical things about how they`re supposed to do it. But in reality, it`s a gut thing. And in reality, it goes to the -- it goes to their gut. They have to sit there. And this -- this case is going to change the jurors` lives forever. Nobody will be the same.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It will because the decision that they have to make will weigh on them forever.

Now, the jurors have not seen the very controversial interview that Jodi Arias gave after she was found guilty of murder one when she talked to KSAZ, a local TV station, and told them all sorts of things, including, "I want to die." Listen to that, and then we`re going to debate on the other side. What does Jodi need to say at the 11th hour to try to save her own life? Let`s listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people are accusing you or tearing down a dead man`s reputation.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I would have been really happy to remain silent and go quietly into the night off to prison. My defense team decided to rip the lid off, because we were forced to trial. Because they didn`t want to settle.

So, it`s not that I wanted to plow ahead and do this, but I took the stand because strategically they advised me to. And when I was on the stand, I had to tell -- I had to answer the questions that were posed to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s debate it. What does Jodi Arias need to say? What can she say after what we just heard portions of those incredibly emotional victim impact statements. Starting with -- listen, let`s go to Arizona attorney -- you`ve watching this trial throughout -- Jordan Rose. Can she say anything?

JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: I don`t think she can say anything. But let`s say -- let`s have her put her best foot forward, if there is such a thing.

Her defense attorney hit the idea of mercy. We have to have mercy on this woman. I don`t know how they have mercy on her. But, you know, she needs to cry. She needs to be upset. She needs to say she`s sorry; she can`t believe she did this. She needed to do that for the last 4 1/2 months, and we didn`t see that. And we didn`t see it, as the public, we didn`t see that on KSAZ when she did her little interview after getting convicted.

So I don`t know how she does it. But you have to also realize that these jurors were screened for allowing the death penalty. None of these jurors are like some of us who say -- they said they could.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s different than actually making that decision. Anahita Sedaghatfar for the defense.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Jane, as if the defense didn`t already have an uphill battle. I mean, watching Travis Alexander`s brother and sister give those statements today, it was truly heart-wrenching.

And at this point, I mean, Jodi Arias is going to have to get up. She`s going to have to speak to those jurors. She`s going to have to look them in the eye and say the two words that she had not said all of these years, and that is "I am sorry."

She is going to have to apologize to the Alexander family. She`s going to have to show genuine remorse, beg for mercy. Take ownership of what she did...

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: But we all know...

SEDAGHATFAR: ... and hope at least one juror will have mercy for her. That`s her best chance.

LEIBERMAN: Anahita, Anahita, first of all -- first of all, we don`t know -- we don`t know that this woman can show genuine remorse. That`s No. 1.

No. 2, even if she does look in the jurors` eyes and pretend to show remorse, these are the same jurors she looked in their eyes for 18 days on the stand and lied to. So she has no credibility with this jury.

What I think is, though, you see Jodi Arias has been able to manipulate everybody in her life except for this jury. They convicted her of murder one. I think she`s going to try...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Hold it right there.

LEIBERMAN: ... a last-ditch effort to manipulate them.

SEDAGHATFAR: She has no other choice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are going continue this debate on the other side.

I also just completed a tour of the Estrella Jail, went into a jail cell identical to that Jodi Arias is in right now. It`s very tiny. I`ve seen many walk-in closets that are bigger than it. We will show it to you. We`re going to interview Sheriff Joe Arpaio in a couple of minutes.

Stay right there. We`re also playing some of the key moments during this victim impact statement. So emotional. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: We are so grateful for our wonderful brother and we feel so lucky and blessed for the time we had with Travis, however short lived. We would give anything to have him back. Anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: I am a police officer, and some of these photos are more gruesome than I`ve ever seen in my 11 years of law enforcement. Our minds are permanently stained with images of our poor brother`s throat slit from ear to ear. Our lives are stained with the image of Travis`s body dead in the shower.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Both Travis`s sister and his brother spoke about experiencing tremendous depression after learning the details of their loved one, Travis Alexander`s, horrific death. They talked about trying antidepressants, Steven did, and said it didn`t work.

Listen to Steven describe the nightmares, literally, the nightmares he has experienced ever since.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN ALEXANDER: The nature of my brother`s murder has had a major impact on me. It`s even invaded my dreams. I have nightmares about somebody coming at me with a knife and then going after my wife and my daughter. When I wake up, I cannot establish what is real, what is a dream. I`ve even gone through the house searching through rooms, shaking my family to make sure that they are alive.

My wife has woken me up out of nightmares because I was screaming. It may sound childish, but I cannot sleep alone in the dark anymore. I have had dreams of my brother all curled up in the shower, thrown in there, left to rot for days, all alone.

I don`t want these nightmares anymore. I don`t want to have to see my brother`s murderer anymore. I don`t want to hear his name dragged through the mud. Anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, there were rules regarding these victim impact statements. The emotion was overwhelming. I was outside court watching on a live stream, and I saw people coming out of the courtroom and the courthouse five stories down weeping and sobbing as they exited the building.

Jean Casarez, what are some of the rules, though, that have been set by the court about these victim impact statements? They can`t ask for, and they can`t say anything they want, correct?

CASAREZ: No, you`re right. They cannot direct the talking to Jodi Arias. I`ve seen in other courtrooms where they face her and just start screaming at the person that killed their loved one.

They cannot say that they want life or death. But they have to direct it at what Travis meant to them, what Travis meant to the life that he had to live and should have been able to lead, and the memories and how their life will never be the same again. And we heard the mental and physical suffering that they have gone through since June 4, 2008.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor, Fred Tecce has prosecuted so many cases where victims` lives, the extended family is completely shattered. This seems incredibly emotional. Is this more emotional than the average victim`s impact statement?

FRED TECCE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know what, Jane? Every case is different. I mean, I had a case where -- where I prosecuted an airline and two FAA officials, and one little boy who was 6 years old at the time his father got killed, came in and talked about what it was like that day to be at a Little League game. And I can tell you, as a prosecutor, I had to fight to keep the tears from welling up in my eyes.

So every case is different. I mean, I can see the emotion here two and a half thousand miles away. And, you know, it`s very, very, very difficult.

But I`ll tell you one thing: one line resonates. When he said, "I don`t have to listen to my brother be dragged through the mud," I think that puts it right, hits the nail right on the head.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And of course, he`s referring to the fact the defense accused Travis Alexander of being a pedophile, something the prosecutor says is just an outright fabrication, a complete bald lie. And I think it might have been the biggest mistake the defense made.

I think that it would be much easier right now to plead for leniency if they hadn`t dragged the victim through the mud during this trial, if they hadn`t, in essence, killed his character during the course of this trial.

Stay right there. Some more of the key moments from today`s victim impact statement from the loved ones of Travis Alexander, his brother and sister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTINEZ: The last thing that he saw before he lapsed into unconsciousness was that defendant, this person here, with that blade coming to his throat, and the last thing he felt before he left this earth was pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER: We thought of what Travis must have went through that day. The pain, the agony, the screams, the fear that Travis must have felt when he was brutally being taken.

We have been at this trial every day since it started. We have heard every detail about the crime and the injuries Travis suffered. I am a police officer, and some of these photos are more gruesome than I`ve ever seen in my 11 years of law enforcement.

Our minds are permanently stained with the images of our poor brother`s throat slit from ear to ear. Our minds are stained with the images of Travis`s body dead in the shower. Our family has born the burden of extreme loss and financial hardship to be here to see that Travis is not forgotten and to ensure that his life was not lost in vain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live outside the Estrella Jail, 99 degree heat. Somewhere behind that barbed wire, Jodi Arias sits tonight, pondering her fate. Remember, she has already told KSAZ she has no mitigating factors. Remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what your mitigating factors are going to be and how you`re going to play that?

ARIAS: Well, I have been told that I don`t have any mitigating factors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By who?

ARIAS: My attorney.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kirk Nurmi said to you there are no mitigating factors for you in terms of arguing against the death penalty?

ARIAS: Nothing that is what you typically see in a case like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s debate it with our expert panel. Does Jodi have any mitigating factors? We`ve got to start with the defense on this one. Anahita Sedaghatfar?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, first, Jane, I think that doing that interview was one of the dumbest things Jodi Arias can do in this case.

I mean, she basically threw her attorneys under the bus. The same attorneys that were spending five years of their lives trying to defend Jodi and spare her her life. And what is she doing? She`s going on camera, divulging attorney-client conversations, saying that her attorney told her that she has no mitigating factors, saying she wants to die?

I mean, it`s -- Juan Martinez is definitely going to introduce this tape, and the defense is going to have no choice but to spin it and basically argue that maybe Jodi is not playing with a full deck, that there`s something wrong with her; she has mental issues.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.

SEDAGHATFAR: That she absolutely needs help.

LEIBERMAN: Look, her attorneys would never tell her that they have no mitigating factors. I mean, I could see Jodi actually using that interview to set up some -- in her head, at least, some future appeal about her legal counsel not being good.

Look, her lawyers want off this case, I believe in large part because of this interview that she did just moments after she was found guilty...

SEDAGHATFAR: Can you blame them, though? Can you blame them?

LEIBERMAN: ... of first-degree murder. Absolutely not, I can`t blame them.

SEDAGHATFAR: The attorneys -- she basically put her defense attorneys in a conflict of -- potential conflict of interest. And I don`t blame them for running to the judge...

LEIBERMAN: I don`t blame them -- Anahita, if you would let me finish, I would say...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s see the panel.

LEIBERMAN: I was saying, if you`d let...

SEDAGHATFAR: You may finish.

LEIBERMAN: If you would let me finish...

SEDAGHATFAR: I guess the issue that I have is with you, and you`ve done this and others have done it, attacking the defense attorneys for doing their job. And I think that...

LEIBERMAN: How did I attack the defense attorneys? I just said...

SEDAGHATFAR: ... done the best that they can.

TECCE: I need to defend him on this one. He didn`t attack them.

LEIBERMAN: I didn`t attack the defense attorneys. I have said since day one -- let me finish. I have said since day one Jodi Arias has done zero to help her case. She has gotten up on the stand and lied to the jury. She has done ill-informed things like this long interview, making the focus all about her, not showing any remorse.

And I agree with you, Anahita, that tape will come into the prosecution`s case during this phase, because it shows this much remorse, which is exactly what this woman has, none. And that is heart-breaking for Travis`s family, and it should be heart-breaking to everybody, that this cold-blooded killer has zero remorse...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me share with you that...

LEIBERMAN: ... to this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you this. She better hit bottom on her life attitude right now. She is sitting in this jail behind me.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is standing right there. He`s getting ready to sit down next to me. We`re going to talk to him on the other side.

She better hit bottom on her life attitude right now if she has any hope of living. She really has to have a moment of humiliation, humility, where she admits she`s done something horrible, and she throws herself on the mercy of the court and begs for forgiveness and owns the horror that she committed. That`s what she needs to do. That`s the only thing that will get her to redemption.

On the other side, Sheriff Joe Arpaio and my tour of the jail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m here with some members of the sheriff response team. And look, they are dressed to the nines, prepared for anything. And right on the other side is the cell that is the same size and lay out as the cell that Jodi Arias is in right now. You see it sort of decorated with the thing that is a prisoner would have. Magazines and their little knickknacks, things they hold on to but nothing that they can use to hurt themselves or others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, you are looking at -- I just did that tour just about a half an hour ago of a jail cell that is identical to the jail cell Jodi Arias is in. The barbed wire you`re looking at, we`re bringing it to you live. Somewhere behind that barbed wire, Jodi Arias is contemplating her fate as she faces the potential of death in this mitigation phase.

We just heard the victim impact statements today. And now the defense mitigation gets to come out and it will start on Monday.

I`m here with Sheriff Joe Arpaio who runs the facility behind me. Now, sheriff, I brought this out from your news conference. This is, if you come back to me for a second, the bread that you give to the prisoners if they do anything wrong, sir. Tell us about that.

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY: Yes, if they violate our policies, we put them on bread and water for ten days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And is that effective? Does that get them to change their ways?

ARPAIO: Yes. I`m sure they are not going to like this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know, I tasted it, it was pretty good. Apparently there`s a lot of nutritious stuff in here like soy and vegetables.

Let me ask you this question. Jodi Arias is back there. She`s contemplating her fate. I know you can`t talk about her specifically, but you know a lot about people behind bars. In my opinion, if she is to at this point plead for her life, she can`t do it as the liar she`s always been. She really has to have a psychic shift. She has to hit bottom on her ways, the ways that have gotten her into so much trouble over the years. It`s a serious of bad choices that culminated in a vicious murder. It wasn`t just a snap.

She`s almost got to change her personality between now and when she gets on the stand to say please don`t put me to death. Do you think, with your knowledge of people behind bars and criminals that she`s capable of making that change?

ARPAIO: Yes. Well, I`m not a psychiatrist or psychologist but I always worry. I worry about those that may have -- prone to commit suicide, we are very cautious about that. My job is to take care of the inmates. So I`m always concerned about the inmates, what they may do and may not do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You put her on suicide watch after she was found guilty of murder one and that was because of the interview she gave, sir?

ARPAIO: I believe she mentioned that several times.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That she might want --

ARPAIO: I wanted to be cautious. Yes. I just wanted to be cautious and I put her on. Of course, the medical people took her off.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then she was transferred back here after she was taken out of the psych one and taken off suicide watch. She`s now in what`s called closed custody. Describe that in detail for our viewers who are not aware of what closed custody.

ARPAIO: We have a pod. We have seven other females incarcerated on that same pod. She has her own cell, of course, with a toilet, a little sink and a bunk. No TV, no nothing. She can`t watch TV. She can get out one hour a day. Take a shower, make a phone call. That`s it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she is in solitary -- in other words, she doesn`t have a roommate.

ARPAIO: No roommate.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: For Jodi Arias who likes to talk, who loves attention, 23 hours a day, alone, has got to be a form of torture for her, especially.

ARPAIO: Yes, I would say that. She`s been in my jail for four years and always had other inmates she could talk with. So I think this may be difficult on her. But, you know, that`s the way the ball bounces.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We have some more from the jail. Again, I just finished the tour and stepped outside. So let`s check out what we have and we`re going to talk more about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The sheriff`s department wanted me to tell you that, see those two very buff and very well-armed sheriff`s officers standing there? They illustrate how there are two sheriff`s officers outside Jodi Arias` cell at all times checking on her every 15 minutes. The idea? To make sure she doesn`t do anything to hurt herself even though she`s now off suicide watch, they want to make doubly sure. That`s why a couple of big guys check in on her all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us about that. In other words, morning, noon and night, every 15 minutes somebody goes in and checks on Jodi Arias.

ARPAIO: Yes, but not just her. She doesn`t get special treatment. There`s others that we follow the same policy, not because of her only. This is our policy. We try to take care of the inmates, make sure nothing happens to them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If she is found -- well, if she gets the death penalty, is she going to be immediately transferred and if so, where?

ARPAIO: We are going to transfer her, my people. But I`m not -- for security reasons right now I`m not going to --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it happens fast?

ARPAIO: Yes. Yes, that`s how we do it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now if they end up saying no, she gets life, what happens then? She stays here for awhile, I understand?

ARPAIO: She could come back to the jail for a few more days or whatever. And we`ll still have her in our custody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she -- over the course of almost five years that she`s been here, has she ever gotten in trouble?

ARPAIO: Not really. I think she was disciplined for some pens that she tried to smuggle in. But that`s about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she`s been a model prisoner, you could say?

ARPAIO: If you want to call it that, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I want to bring in my panel. Because I think that`s one of the mitigators or it certainly relates to one of the mitigators. On the other side, we are going to discuss with our panel whether the fact that for going on almost five years Jodi Arias has been in this facility except for that one trip to another jail when she was on suicide watch and well-behaved. Hasn`t had to have, wait -- let me get this -- she hasn`t had to have the bread, right? No bread and water for Jodi Arias?

ARPAIO: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not so far. So is that a mitigator? Can her defense attorneys bring that up? On the other side -- you find that amusing.

ARPAIO: Well, you`re going to bring bread into it, ok.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN ALEXANDER, BROTHER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I thought my brother was bullet proof. I thought he was stronger than anything. He couldn`t be cut down or knocked down. He was in two motorcycle crashes and walked away unharmed. He wrecked several cars and nothing happened to him. He rolled a snowmobile and again, not a scratch. He was unbreakable.

Who on earth would want to do this to him? For what reasons? He wanted to move forward in life to better himself and only to help others. Why him?

Unfortunately, I won`t ever get the answers to most of my questions about my brother`s death. Questions like how much did he suffer? How much did he scream? What was he saying? What was the last thing he saw before his eyes closed? What was his final thought in his head?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, ok. Well, we are just getting some new information. I said that we were showing you a cell identical to Jodi`s cell. And then we found out that was Jodi`s cell. But obviously, it was taped up, so it seemed to be put in a demonstration situation for our purposes.

Let me say this, as we listen to these victim impact statements and we try to figure out what on earth Jodi can say to try to save her life, we have to look at even her own attorney sort of trying to bail ship on her because we found out from the judge that she denied their request to withdrawal from the case. That was why we had one of those mystery hearings the other day.

I want to debate that with our expert panel. Wow -- I just thought that was extraordinary. Her own attorneys tried to bail from the case. We found out about that just a little while ago.

Jordan Rose, have you ever heard of such a thing? A death penalty case, the verdict comes back murder one. And then Jodi`s attorneys want out. Let`s debate it. Why?

JORDAN ROSE, ARIZONA ATTORNEY: This is crazy. The case gets crazier and crazier. When I heard that, I just couldn`t believe it. Of course the judge is not going to allow these attorneys out at this point in the case. That would never occur. But I think they did this -- they made that record because she`s not listening to anything they say. They advise her, she just ignores it. She goes on the TV station after being sentenced without any remorse and goes on the TV station, clearly against their judgment.

Now tomorrow, or whenever, or Monday, when she gets up -- when she gets up to say something, I`m sure she`s just going to do whatever she wants. And so, I think they made that record so that if she ever comes back and says "I had ineffective assistance of council, they gave me incompetent advice," they can point to that filing and say "No way, she didn`t listen to anything we said."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anahita Sedaghatfar, you yourself said it was very stupid for her to give that one interview. Well, the judge also banned her from doing any other interviews and also informed the sheriff who just left here that he is not to tell Jodi about requests for interviews.

What that tells me is one of the reasons why the attorneys may have wanted off the case is because she wanted to do a media press junket. She wanted to not just do KSAZ, the local station but then oh do "In Session" or HLN or "48 Hours" or any network. She wanted to do a press junket.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Jane. And I think that that`s also one of the reasons the attorneys filed their motion to withdraw. Of course the court wasn`t going to grant that motion this late in the game. But the defense attorneys are basically screaming out to the judge, "Help us, we cannot control our client."

Who does that? Who basically throws their attorneys under the bus right after they have been convicted of first degree murder before the penalty phase has even begun and says I want to die and I don`t have any mitigating factors?

I think the judge did the right thing. She didn`t allow the attorneys to get off the case, but she threw them a bone and she basically said no more talking to the media. This is absolutely ridiculous. I have never seen a criminal defendant do something like this.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But personally I kind of think -- I kind of think this is a missed opportunity. They sort of barely touched -- the defense did on her mental state.

I mean honestly, Jon Leiberman, I think that`s a sign that she`s cuckoo for cocoa puffs. That instead of worrying about whether she`s living or dying, she`s all doing her make up for the KSAZ interview and then wanting to do a press tour.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: There`s a difference between --

(CROSSTALK)

LEIBERMAN: Go ahead, Fred.

FRED TECCE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thank you. Let me tell you something, it doesn`t make any difference at this point. This is what you have to understand. People filter information differently. The example I give my students is you go to a Chinese restaurant and you get a fortune that says you are going away for a long time. Positive people think they`re going to a beach in Tahiti, negative people think they`re going to jail for the rest of your life. It`s the same piece of information.

My point is this, no matter what she says on the witness stand, these jurors are going to filter it from the perspective of people who have already found she`s pathologic, she`s a liar and she`s manipulative. So it doesn`t matter.

SEDAGHATFAR: It only takes one of those jurors, Fred.

TECCE: Not going to happen. She has a better chance of going to the moon. Never going to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

LEIBERMAN: This jury -- Anahita let me say this.

SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish. Let me please finish. Let me please make my point.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: These are death qualified jurors --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s Jon Leiberman`s turn. Jon`s turn.

LEIBERMAN: Anahita is saying it only takes one juror, this jury has spoken, and they have spoken loudly --

TECCE: Correct.

LEIBERMAN: They don`t believe Jodi Arias, they don`t like Jodi Arias. They believe this was a premeditated killing, done by a liar and a calculating killer, Jodi Arias. So yes, it only takes one, but I don`t think anybody on this jury -- could get it in their head for a second --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We will continue this debate on the other side. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: Before they book, can I clean myself up a little bit.

You should have at least done your makeup Jodi, gosh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA ALEXANDER, SISTER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Recalling the moment that I found out about my brother -- my brother`s death -- I think of my ears ringing, my stomach burning, and this idea that this can`t possibly be happening. My heart sank to my stomach.

She said, "Samantha, you need to call me back. It is very important." I could tell that she was crying. And I recognized her tone of voice from before. I knew that someone was dead. I called my grandmother`s house and my sister answered the phone. She screamed at me. She said "Samantha, Travis is dead."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And listening to all of that, first of all the entire nation but Jodi Arias in particular. And she is right now probably hopefully thinking about that as she sits somewhere behind me, behind the barbed wire here in this jail here, the Estrella jail here in phoenix. And she has got to make a decision. Is she going to come clean? Is she going to change her ways and approach this jury with humility and truth and say I did something awful, "I did a terrible, terrible thing, forgive me. I see it now. I am not going to try to tell you it was justified. I`m not going to try to tell you it`s self defense. I`m not going to try to tell you anything. What I`m going to do is tell you that hearing the family members speak I had a realization, I had a realization of how evil my actions were and I beg for your forgiveness."

Jordan Rose, do you think she is capable of saying something like that?

ROSE: Jane, I think she should say exactly what you just said. And I don`t think she will say anything that you just said. I think that Jodi will potentially even beg for the -- for death because she thinks that that is some mind game to allow her to live.

And frankly, I think if she begs for death she is getting death. If she begs for life, she is getting death. These jurors are fed up with her lies and baloney and they have said that time and time again. But if she said what you said, Jane, she might convince someone, somewhere.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We know now she has no television behind bars, so it is up to her, she has to come to that conclusion on her own. More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eight siblings, their lives shattered -- emotional problems, depression, nightmares. Years of their lives lost. It is really unbelievable, Jon Leiberman, the impact that this horrific killing has had on Travis`s family.

LEIBERMAN: You know what, Jane? I think what the two family members articulated today speak for all victims of violent crime who have lost somebody senselessly to murder. They gave voice today to all of those people. They showed the world what they lost in their loved one of Travis. And it is just -- a tremendous -- it took tremendous courage for them to get up there and say what they said. And I admire them for it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was heroic. It touched my heart. It touched everyone`s heart.

Nancy Grace is next.

END