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Penalty Phase: Jodi Arias on Trial
Aired May 20, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the Jodi Arias circus continues. No witnesses will testify on her behalf. Not mom. Not dad. Not a friend in the word will speak for her. And her attorneys want out -- again.
Is Jodi the ringmaster stalling for time? Or does she think death row is her destiny?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. Thank you for joining us.
My co-host this week, psychotherapist Robi Ludwig. She is author of "Till Death Do Us Part".
And we will be getting to the Jodi Arias case and what did and did not happen if court today. I`ve got a lot to talk about and a lot of thoughts. Robi`s here it to help me out.
But it would be absolutely -- we would be remiss if we did not take our attention a few minutes to look off for breaking news from Oklahoma tonight. I think everyone is aware a catastrophic storm has flattened part of Moore. That is south of Oklahoma City. Schools, homes, many of structures completely leveled by 200-mile-an-hour winds. Tornado itself, 2 miles wide.
The governor just spoke. And I guess 51 or 57 people may be dead according to the state medical examiner. Seven -- 51 is the number I`m told. Seven are children at a particular school.
We`re looking at foot and of that school. Of course, there are many injured. And there`s a desperate effort to rescue those who are trapped.
Joining us now HLN meteorologist Bob Van Dillen.
Bob, the governor mentioned one thing. And that was for us in the media to keep updating people on the meteorological situation there in Oklahoma City. Is there still a threat of more storms?
BOB VAN DILLEN, HLN METEOROLOGIST (via telephone): You know, it`s a good question, Dr. Drew. It looks like most of the thunderstorms are lining up to the south and to the east of that particular spot from Oklahoma City.
But you`re still talking about a tremendous swath. We`re talking about northern Texas, all the way to Oklahoma, eastern Oklahoma, northern Arkansas, Missouri and Illinois. That`s a tornado watch.
And remember a watch means conditions are favorable for tornado does occur. It means the conditions are ripe.
When you see a warning, that`s worse. That means the tornadoes actually have been spotted by Doppler, or it`s been spotted by somebody on the ground. There are now active warnings in northern Texas, eastern Oklahoma, north Arkansas, Missouri and Illinois.
And these thunderstorms are going to continue to produce these overnight tonight. Those watches which include St. Louis by the way, it`s a tornado watch for them, that goes until 1:00 Central Time, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: And, Bob, my understanding was this one was a relatively weak thunderstorm that broke out into a massive tornado within like five minutes or something. So people didn`t have a chance to take cover. Is that accurate?
VAN DILLEN: It really did. They actually had a little bit of chance. They had 16 minute leeway in New Castle. That`s just west of Moore.
But Moore, this thing turned into a huge wedge tornado. We`re talking 2 miles wide like you said before, with a preliminary rating of EF-4. This one could be over 200 miles per hour between EF-5. But right now, they`re holding to that EF-4.
That about a half hour leeway time, a half hour warning time in Moore. Which is good, but if you`re looking at it right now. And you can see all those neighborhoods that are destroyed, even that`s not enough time.
I`m looking at all the walls taken down on all these homes. Some of the slabs are wiped clean. If you see that, those winds are over 200 miles an hour. And even with that school, that heart breaking thing, at Plaza Towers Elementary school, that a search and rescue, in fact, continues.
PINSKY: Bob, I`ve got to interrupt you real quick. We are looking at a live picture from the school, I believe. Again, a lot of people with hard hats walking around. My understanding is because it`s getting dark, they`re bringing out the dogs to try to use them to help locate people that might be trapped in the rubble.
It`s just unbelievable to think that if you blink this kind of storm can hit you. In other words, if you get a warning, and you think I`ll check back on my radio or computer, 10 minutes later that could already be too late.
VAN DILLEN: You`re right. But these people in Oklahoma, their head`s on a swivel, essentially. They know what`s going on this time of year and they were warned not just today, but yesterday. I mean, there`s a tornado outbreak just about the same area yesterday. So, they knew the conditions were ripe again.
But they had a half hour leeway time, but unfortunately just not enough. I mean, what can you do, an EF-4, EF-5, there`s really nothing to do except get underground. That`s really the only way you can survive something like this.
PINSKY: Well, Bob, thank you for the update.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the people of Oklahoma. And hopefully tonight people will be on the lookout. I guess we`re seeing footage of the very funnel cloud that caused the destruction. It seems like that`s what that was. Again, if somebody could confirm that for me, it`s unbelievable that we have that -- yes, that is the cloud right there. It looks like the Wizard of Oz for goodness sakes.
All right. Well, listen, thank you so much, Bob. And we will keep our eyes glued and please stay on the look out down there in the Midwest. We do -- our thoughts and prayers are with everybody.
We`re going to switch gears. We`re going back to Jodi Arias.
The case is finishing now with big drama.
Robi, would you expect anything else with old Jodi?
ROBI LUDWIG, CO-HOST: Oh, gosh. You know, anything can happen with Jodi. It seems like she kind of thrives on the drama. And what`s so interesting is to see that nobody seems to be supporting her at this point.
PINSKY: Not as far as we can tell. The boyfriend is my understanding was suited up and ready to go, but didn`t get asked to come in. She will speak to the jury at 12:30 Eastern tomorrow. No one else is planning to speak on her behalf.
Now, a lawyer`s job, the defense lawyer`s job is to vigorously defend his client, right?
PINSKY: But, today, you`ve got to wonder is telling the judge what she should or shouldn`t do, actually ordering the judge, was that a good idea? Take a look at this into footage. You`ll be surprised.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE: The court has received a motion for mistrial.
KIRK NURMI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This court had a duty to protect Ms. Arias` right to fair trial and failed to do so time and time again. This cannot be a modern day version of days gone by of stoning or witch trials. This court has a duty to Ms. Arias. You have to keep your eye on the ball, Judge.
We`re not talking about blind people, we`re not talking about dogs. A partial picture is not good enough for this jury. It just isn`t, and this court then --
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: He now chastises the court. And as part of that, he also chastises the prosecutor. State believes that those comments are not well-taken.
NURMI: And the rest of the bluster that Mr. Martinez is saying to try to divert you from the reality has nothing to do with the issue the court must decide. When this court allows the prosecutor to personally attack witnesses and counsel, that breeds an environment where this sort of thing is endorsed.
JUDGE: The motion for mistrial is denied.
NURMI: We will not be calling witnesses in the phase given the court`s ruling.
JUDGE: All right. I assume your client does wish to allocute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: HLN legal correspondent Jean Casarez joins us from outside the courthouse.
Jean, the judge does not look happy. What happened this morning?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: I`ll tell you something. It fell like dominoes, one after the other.
The motion for mistrial was because of Patty Womack who was going to be a witness for the defense. And she had the weekend to think about it, and according to the defense, she has gotten threats against her life. At this point, feels so intimidated, she is choosing not to take the stand.
So that precipitated the current motion for a mistrial. When that was denied, then the defense tried to recuse themselves, we cannot zealously advocate for Jodi Arias anymore because the jury deserves to hear the whole story about Jodi Arias` life and they can`t because the witness won`t take the stand. When that was denied, then it just sort of came out of his mouth we won`t be calling any witnesses at all.
And, of course, there is legal advocacy. They are preserving a record here. But there was a lot of emotion along with it all.
PINSKY: OK. Now, listen, I need to call my panel in. Jean, stay with for a second. Let`s get the panel in here if we can do that.
OK. Now, I`ve got former prosecutor Loni Coombs, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Mark Eiglarsh, attorney from speaktomark.com, attorney and Sirius XM radio host, Jenny Hutt.
Jenny, you first. Sound familiar, getting death threats if you say anything positive about Ms. Arias?
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t even think you have to say something positive about Ms. Arias. I think you just have to say something that says if he doesn`t die tomorrow, I`ll be OK. I mean, I could just get misconstrued in about a second.
But I just thought it was fascinating what went on today. And I am sure Mark Eiglarsh will speak to this with Loni.
But when Nurmi first asked for a mistrial and it got denied, and then said, we withdraw, I mean, the whole thing was so insane.
HUTT: It`s like become a circus act. And --
PINSKY: That`s right. I want to start with Loni. I want to go right over, Jenny, if you don`t mind and go to her and ask her this.
Was this some sort of a strategic move on his part not to call witnesses? Because there were people suited up and ready to go. I know it seems like nobody wanted to get up for Jodi and maybe they didn`t. But there was boyfriend that many people saw ready to roll today. He didn`t ask him to come in.
Is this part of his strategy to get a mistrial, Loni?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: I think the rest of the witnesses, not calling them was part of the strategy, but let`s start with the one witness who is getting the death threats, the childhood friend. I`ll tell you, and this is not to be construed that I am a Jodi Arias sympathizer.
PINSKY: Yes, Loni, we don`t want Jodi to get that threat.
COOMBS: Right, exactly. But I will tell you, there is a very serious concern here as far as the heal system is concerned. And everyone should be involved because there are constitutional rights for every defendant here in America. And if they don`t get the due process in court, that murder conviction that is now in place can be reversed. And we`re back to ground one.
So what`s going on right now is a really interesting thing. And that is there are witnesses that are afraid to come into court, because not only was there this kind of attitude in the court, a very aggressive cross examination by the prosecutor, which I think was almost bordering on bullying, with some of those defense witnesses. But those defense witnesses were subject to personal and professional attacks outside by this frenzied group of whoever who really want Jodi Arias to go down.
Now imagine friends trying to come in --
COOMBS: -- who actually want to say I care about Jodi, I sympathize. And that`s an important part of this process, and it isn`t happening, so it is really crucial.
PINSKY: It is important. It`s going to be interesting. And, Loni, we`re going to do a behavior bureau in a couple of minutes on the mob behavior that`s going on outside the courtroom.
Mark, this is your time. Tell us what went on there today.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I piggyback off of what Loni said. Absolutely accurate.
I`m no Jodi sympathizer, you all know that. However, replace Jodi Arias for one of your loved ones or someone that you care about. You would want Nurmi to do his job if he was your lawyer. And doing his job means to express frustration when he simply trying to save his client`s life.
Take out Jodi, put in somebody you care about. That`s what a defense lawyer has to do. And I`ve been in the trenches many times saying, judge, your rulings are essentially cutting me off from doing my job. And that was his frustration.
PINSKY: We`re looking at a lineup for people who could have testified and are not going to testify for Jodi.
Jean, before I let you go, some of the people were seeing up there on the screen today did visit her in jail, did they not? Her family went and saw her?
CASAREZ: That`s right. Her mother and father went to visit her late today. And, you know, I saw when they left the court today, her mother and father were holding hands. I think her mother was really happy that her husband was finally here. It`s the first time in a long time that he was here.
PINSKY: But again, it belies that there`s an underlying strategy here. The fact that mom wasn`t freaking out, didn`t want to -- you know, you would think wild horses wouldn`t be able to keep her from the stand to save her daughter`s life if that was appropriate, unless there is an alternative strategy underway here.
Jenny, I see you nodding your head. Robi, I got go ahead. Please, Jenny, finish this up and then I`ve got to take a break.
HUTT: I just want to save Mark and Loni, wasn`t that witness, the other witness, allowed to testify out of court? Why didn`t they allow that?
EIGLARSH: Because Martinez apparently pointed out that she`s probably, probably committed some offense. And if she takes the witness stand, she could be prosecuted for that. So she freaks out and says, I`m not going near the stand, no matter what, even if it`s in private.
CASAREZ: Right. And that`s the other side of the story, and the judge said that they would seal the testimony with the jury and so it would never be made public. She gave that option and the witness still said no.
COOMBS: But she`d still be examined.
PINSKY: But everybody, feel the spin? This is the Jodi spin cycle we`re all in. Here it is. This is all Jodi spinning. We`re in it, man. We`re all in it. And Nurmi`s in it deep as well.
Next up, why are we so obsessed with this case? And why do we behave like a mob when it comes to Jodi, and anyone who says anything the least bit positive about Jodi.
And later on, we are welcoming back Sky Hughes. She will tell us the impact of this lengthy trial continues to have and has had on the Alexander family. I`m particularly interested in knowing how they`re feeling after having made their impact statements.
We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Maybe we want to do a behavior bureau on our relation to Jodi, you know what I all mean? Why we all go to her, why there`s such mob mentality around her, why when Jenny makes some gentle comment about feeling compassion for a human suffering named Jodi Arias, even though she thought she was getting what she deserved, Jenny gets attacked with the pitchforks and the mob. It`s very interesting. We`ll make that a future behavior bureau.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is the topic our behavior bureau will go after tonight. Back with my co-host, Robi Ludwig.
Robi, don`t you agree, it`s beauty and the beast. And the mob is out with the pitchfork to kill the beast.
LUDWIG: People feel very strongly about it. And everybody who feels that Jodi should get death penalty, that they`re making death threats towards the people who disagree with them. I find that a fascinating dynamic.
PINSKY: Yes. It is mob psychology, everybody.
Joining Robi and I to discuss, I`ve got Cheryl Arutt, clinical psychologist, Janine Driver, the human lie detector and author of "You Can`t Lie to Me", and Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on Young Turks Network.
Janine, I`m starting with you. Let`s just break it down from a pure response to what we`re seeing in Jodi. Is there something about her facial expressions or her body language that sets us off?
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: You know, I think the first thing that you notice, Dr. Drew, that we all notice, is this flat affect, especially when Dr. Janine (ph) was on the stand. She has that flat affect all the time.
But think about Jodi Arias. She had that when she was snuggled up with Travis, when he was hanging around with his friends, telling this great story, typical Jodi Arias. She has that flat affect.
She`s so boring that she doesn`t really know what to do, you know? It`s either stick your middle finger up in the air to get some attention, roll your eyes or this flat effect.
But the interesting part is, Dr. Drew, when we have no emotion on our face, we say more than we think. It`s almost like we`re saying do not disturb when we`re totally checked out.
PINSKY: Well, Janine, I think it`s -- I actually spoke to a man named Steven Porges (ph), who`s a neurobiologist earlier in the week. And he was saying it has something to do with the way her -- I don`t want to get too deep into this -- but how she developed, literally, that her emotions are so disconnected that she doesn`t have the developmental connectedness with her facial expressions that we would anticipate and we project all kinds of things into that. She`s also emotionally disconnected.
Samantha, does the way witnesses caught on have something to do request with how we -- I don`t me mean we producers of media, but those of us that are watching media, consume it? Is it social media? Is it what we like to do with our stories today in media?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it`s a number of things. Two things actually that first come to mind. For one, I think some people genuinely are compassionate and heartbroken for Travis Alexander and his family, and want to see justice for Travis.
For others, I think it`s entertainment value. Listen, there`s sex, there`s lies, there`s videotape. And to be honest, Dr. Drew, you can`t write a more twisted, a more horrific script. You can`t create a more deviant, a more evil yet attractive villain, so people are sucked in.
PINSKY: I think you`re right on that. And that sort of bothers me because then all the players become cartoon character, not human beings embroiled in this very painful drama.
Cheryl, this trial, it seems to me, if they`re dealing with people not as real, in sort of considering them not real, people are feeling entitled to act out their aggression and then we see the mob develop.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s exactly right, Dr. Drew. What we`re seeing is called an expressive mob mentality, where people start thinking and moving and believing as a group. And we see this a lot with sports teams where people watching start to say we scored or we lost. They identify as if this is actually happening to them.
And people cannot look away from this trial and identify, but there`s a universal kind of identification with one side or another. But there`s also a sort of an anonymous kind of --
ARUTT: -- aspect to that.
ARUTT: That emboldens them.
PINSKY: Right. And it`s gratifying in some way. Robi, you`re a psychotherapist, I want to get you to get on this as well. Somehow, we like elevating somebody and then it`s human sacrifice. We like putting them up and hanging them. It does something to us as a group.
LUDWIG: Absolutely. We could feel superior, and I think Jodi is very relatable, because who hasn`t been dumped by a boyfriend who you really love and then feel murderous toward them. But most people don`t act on that murderous rage.
PINSKY: I haven`t.
LUDWIG: You haven`t?
PINSKY: No, no.
LUDWIG: Or vice versa.
PINSKY: It seems to me, being surrounded by women, but it seems to be something peculiar to your kind, I think, that you a murderous rage --
LUDWIG: What do you mean?
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
LUDWIG: It might be that women are more murderous than men.
PINSKY: No, because men do more violent acting out. But when it comes to wanting to kill a boyfriend that just things didn`t work out, I`m just saying, you guys are scaring me, is all I`m saying.
LUDWIG: Most people don`t do that.
LUDWIG: We find a way to get over it.
So, in some ways this story is all very relatable. We can all sit in judgment as the judge and jury because we didn`t go there, but she did.
PINSKY: That`s right. So maybe that`s what`s so relatable for a lot of people, which is, I know that feeling. I didn`t act out on it. Or, as a corollary to that, Janine, I let you talk in just a second, but as a corollary, I had severe abuse. I know what it is to being abuse survivor, and I didn`t behave like she did.
Janine, finish us up.
DRIVER: Because I`m on your show, and I speak -- you know, I`m a blue collar kid from Boston. My dad is a mechanic from the fire department and my mom is a nurse for elderly homeless people, I just say it like it is, you know?
I`ve had two men verbally attack me. One called me, left me a three minute, you know, rant dropping F-bombs telling me to do really bad stuff to myself. And another guy created a whole Web site saying I`m one of the scam artists on the Dr. Drew show on HLN. And it`s a whole Web site. He gives my office address. He gives all this information about me.
PINSKY: Wow. Listen --
DRIVER: A whole site. And this is two men who are so enraged because I`m anti-Jodi Arias and pro-Travis Alexander.
PINSKY: Wow. I mean, again, that is a -- first of all, Janine, I`m upset hearing that story. But that tells us how extreme the feelings are around this case. It`s worth us as a behavior bureau, watching this, talking about it, I think you guys laid it nicely, but we haven`t finished with this story. We need to examine it yet again as time goes along.
But time is up for this particular topic tonight.
Next, we`re going to talk about something you know the DSM V is coming out. There`s a lot controversy on DSM V. I think I saw a new category in there called Arias anxiety. We will talk about in the behavior bureau.
And later, Alexander friend Sky Hughes is back. We will get her exclusive take on what the family thinks of the judge and the delays in the case.
We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
NURMI: It`s not even about whether or not you like Jodi Arias. Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
MARTINEZ: What factors influence your having a memory problem?
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: Usually when men leak you are screaming at me or grilling me or someone like Travis doing the same.
MARTINEZ: You weren`t going to put up with that either, were you?
ARIAS: Put up with what?
MARTINEZ: Well, what is it that we`re talking about, here?
ARIAS: Which part put up with?
MARTINEZ: Are you going to put up what we just talk about? Are you having problems understanding again what`s going on?
ARIAS: Sometimes, because you`re going circles.
MARTINEZ: Yes, or no?
ARIAS: I was saying no and you interrupted me. That`s not what I said. Am I allowed to tell you what I`m trying to say?
If I passed a lie detector test, would that help me?
INVESTIGATOR: It could help you.
ARIAS: You`re so weird anyway.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: You`re so weird? Back with my behavior bureau, and my co- host Robi Ludwig.
She said you`re so weird to the investigator. Jenny Hutt has joined my behavior bureau as well. We are seeing something interesting in that footage. I know my reaction. I`ll hold it for a second.
Jenny, you first.
HUTT: Yes, I kind of feel like she`s an obnoxious, spoiled, petulant 16-year-old.
HUTT: I sort of feel like if you and I would role play that, Dr. Drew, I could answer back the same way she does. Everything is like no, you, no, it`s your problem. Like what`s wrong with you? Like there`s no ownership of any of her complicity in this situation.
She murdered someone. And she`s angry that they`re at her?
PINSKY: Yes. Janine, what do you see?
DRIVER: You know, it`s devastating for me to watch this. I was in court the last day Jodi was on the stand, and to see it on TV and hear it on TV is completely different from being there. You feel like you`re walking through a mall and you hear this bratty kid talking back to their grandmother. I mean, it is so incredibly disrespectful. My hands are in fists as I`m talking because it is so disrespectful and we see even her eyebrows come together in this little contempt and disgust as she`s talking to Juan Martinez.
I think it`s atrocious and I think Jodi Arias was found guilty of first degree murder because Jodi Arias is not very good at faking empathy or sympathy or even remorse.
ARUTT: Well, I think we`re putting two things together here. One is that she is not taking responsibility for herself. And she is getting snarky and doing these disrespectful things which make her easy to not like.
This is somebody people love to hate. And here she is, she did this terrible crime. And people can`t look away. What horrible thing is going to happen next? What terrible thing is she going to say or do next? And it`s very compelling.
But if she -- paradoxically, if she could say I did this, I`m so sorry, it would affect a whole different part of people`s hearts.
PINSKY: I don`t think we`re going to see that. Tomorrow is the day. I think whatever she does tomorrow is going to be very, very unsatisfying.
Samantha, I`m going to go to you. Here`s my basic take on her. What you want to say back to her is -- this woman committed a horrible slaughter of a young man. Honey, who the hell do you think you are? What -- that`s the part, it`s like what? You see it all strung together like that, just so, Jodi Arias, who do you think you are?
SCHACHER: Absolutely. I agree. She comes off so entitled. So arrogant, and going off what everybody else is saying. When you watch her do that, I actually understand why there is such a passionate mob mentality, because here`s someone with zero likeable qualities.
Not only did she slaughter Travis Alexander. Not only did she malign, but then you see her act like this in court and it makes you hate her. So, then if anyone`s going to offer any bit of support in regard to Jodi Arias, it makes you want to attack them because look how non-likeable she is.
PINSKY: I get it, although, I don`t like mob mentality when we all get swept into step. We should just take a beat and think about it, because then we are going to getting swept into aggression ourselves. I`m just saying. But, but, hang on. But if this trial is stressing you out -- I can see how looking at those pictures of her start to make you feel bad, you`re not alone.
Here are two recent tweets sent to me @Dr.Drew. "I`ve started to take anxiety medication over this trial and develop anger issues towards #Jodi Arias." And here`s another one to me @Dr.Drew, "This Jodi Arias case is giving me the blues. I`ve never seen anything like this." So, Jenny, I think I`m going to call this Arias anxiety.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes. I get it. I get it. And I`ve said this to you before, Dr. Drew. There`s this thing about Jodi. And don`t freak out Twitters fear that some of us can relate to her because we`ve all gone crazy over guy, but then, there`s this break that you go, oh my -- but we would never do what she did. She`s so horrendous that it is anxiety- producing, but how does that happen? How does someone turn that corner and become a murderous, psycho --
PINSKY: And by the way, if anyone is going to be anxious, the men should be anxious. We were the object of a murderous aggression.
PINSKY: I`m just saying. Robi, your thoughts.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSY.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, no, I mean, I think what happens when you watch somebody who has borderline personality disorder, first of all, Dr. Drew, they often feel very victimized.
LUDWIG: So, Jodi feels victimized.
PINSKY: Yes they do.
LUDWIG: And they can induce a feeling in you that they feel themselves.
PINSKY: Hold on. Robi, stop it. That`s how -- I`m trying to get people to understand that piece. I think that`s her whole business with I need the death penalty right now. It`s you feel my murderous rage and act it out on me. Explain that to people then we have to take a break. Go.
LUDWIG: I think when people are very sick, sometimes, they can give you the feelings almost like a cold, that they are having about themselves. Jodi is feeling very rageful and probably very anxious, and people who are very connected to watching the trial might feel that rage and anxiety along with her and feel that it`s theirs.
PINSKY: I see --
LUDWIG: They catch it.
PINSKY: It`s not a contagion so much as something she`s doing. Contagion is what I feel when I see Jodi feeling upset and said, and I feel, oh, this poor person is going to get her life ruin to look what she`s done. What she`s doing, projecting into us is something a little more active. Hang on, guys. I see you all nodding your head yes.
So, I know we`re on agreement. I want to call out to our viewers for questions for the behavior bureau. Go ahead and tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behavior bureau, and we will get your questions on the air.
Next up, we`ve got another exclusive with Sky Hughes. Does she think Jodi can talk her way out of the death penalty? And what`s going on with the family after the impact statements?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I love you, Travie. And I`m so proud of you. And he said, "I love you too, more than you know." Travis changed my life. He made me a better person. And I`m not the only one. He did that for almost everyone that he was associated with. He made people want to be better when they were around him.
And even, still, he inspires us to make every moment count, to live the lives we know we should be living.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is Deanna, the former girlfriend of Travis. And we had the great good fortune of speaking to her. She`s a lovely woman. And you see how this amongst others devastated her life. Robi, before we go to the panel and introduce Sky, I want to just bring a little tweet in here from afterboBU (ph). He says @DrDrew, "Tornado in Oklahoma kills dozens, and we talk Jodi Arias."
We are very aware of what`s going on in Oklahoma, and our thoughts and prayers are with people there. We just heard a report from the ground, and we will continue to look in on Oklahoma. So, please, we have not forgotten. We are, however, very -- there`s some footage of what`s been going on today. It`s devastation. And that`s a live picture right there you`re seeing.
So, please, everybody, there could be more storms, particularly, those of you down a little south of where they are in Oklahoma. Take cover. Take heed. Listen to the warnings. Do not take any unnecessary risk.
Now, Robi, you`re with me. My panel is mark Eiglarsh and Jenny Hutt. And joining us all is Sky Hughes. She is Travis Alexander`s friend and family supporter. Sky, I -- by the way, thank you for coming back. It is a pleasure. I understand Deanna sat next to you today in court, and she is just a lovely woman, and we see her deep sorrow at the loss of Travis.
How is the family, particularly, I`m worried about Steve and what I call my Samantha. I`ll tell you about that in a second. How are they doing after their impact statements in court?
SKY HUGHES, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: You know, I think they`re relieved that they`re finished with that part, but at the same time, I don`t think we heard the extent of how much it is affecting them. I know it`s a lot worse for both of them, for the whole family, and especially for Steven.
You know, the nightmares are way worse than let on. What`s done to his life is a lot -- it`s been a lot bigger of an impact than what he was able to express. And, you know, Travis meant so much to him. And the effect it`s had on him is just -- I mean, it`s awful. It really is.
PINSKY: See, I think --
HUGHES: He did an amazing job.
PINSKY: He did. And I think we did get a feeling for what -- even though he might have wanted to say more. We got the sense of what`s going on there. But Sky, you know, a lot of people have sort of a glib way of looking at there, an unrealistic way of looking, oh, they got it off their chest, they must feel so much better. But to me, you look a little sadder today. And people often when they have these kinds of evocations are worse. And I worry that the family is worse afterwards.
HUGHES: Yes. I mean, it`s becoming more of a reality that is set in. You know, they`ve been able to focus on the trial. And I think by doing that, they`ve kind of set aside and displaced a lot of their pain and a lot of, you know, the tragedy and the awful things that they`ve had to endure. and you know, I think when it`s over, it`s just -- it`s really, I think, going to hit them, you know, the full reality of what`s happened.
But at the same time, it will, it will allow them to be able to begin to heal because they`re not going to have to see her everyday, you know, the person who slaughtered their brother. They`re not going to have to hear the horrible lies.
PINSKY: I got to go to commercial very quickly, but are they frustrated with what`s going on in court today?
HUGHES: Yes. You know, they`re thinking, OK, it`s going to be done today. We`re not going to have to hear any more. We`re not going to have to look at her anymore. And then, they get to court and it`s postponed. So, it`s really, really hard.
PINSKY: Excruciating. Excruciating. OK, guys, I got to take a break. My panel is still standing by. I want to give them a chance to ask Sky some questions. She will be here with her exclusive observation from Travis Alexander`s inner circle.
And later, our jury, with their observations about the tension in the courtroom today. Back after this.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Robi Hughes, Robi Ludwig rather, and of course, Sky Hughes is a member of Travis` inner circle, close with his family. She is still with us. One of the things Travis` family wanted to show the jury during their impact statements, but they didn`t have a chance to was this picture your seeing here now, this is Travis Alexander`s casket on the day of his funeral.
It`s deeply moving to see that. Again, the pictures tell such unbelievable stories when you put them all together in this case. Sky, I want to tell you that tonight -- you and I have talked a number of times. And tonight, you`re kind of tearing my heart out a little bit. You seem upset and sad in a way I`ve not seen you before.
HUGHES: Well, I was, you know, watching the devastation of Oklahoma and the kids, and then I was talking to, you know, the members of the family just about things that they`ve gone through and if there`s anything they wanted me to talk about, and it was just -- it`s hard because it`s a lot worse than I thought it was.
PINSKY: How is my Samantha doing?
HUGHES: Your Samantha.
PINSKY: My Samantha.
HUGHES: The crush is reciprocated just so you know. She thinks you`re great and appreciates all that you do. She`s doing good. She`s looking forward to this ending. And again, that`s why it`s so hard with all the postponements. So, you know, she`s looking forward to getting back to her life, to be able to focus on Travis, you know, so --
PINSKY: She`s had to take up the role of glue in that family. I can see it very clearly. Robi, you have a question. I`m talking (ph) about panel a chance to talk to you, Sky. Robi, you have a question. And again, you also appreciate how much this kind of trauma is intergenerational, how poor Steve and his wife and his child, maybe her children have to be affected by this, but go ahead, Robi.
LUDWIG: Sure. Sky, I`m wondering if this family feels that the media tension has been more helpful or harmful in terms of their brother`s case?
HUGHES: You know, I haven`t really talked to them about that part of it. I know that they have appreciated the love and support that they`ve received. And that`s probably due to the media attention that this trial is getting. You know, people are able to get to know Travis. And one of Travis` goals when he was alive was to have an impact, to better the world.
And I think he`s been able to do that through this media attention. People feel like they know him and he`s changed lives. And so, that part of it, I think, is exciting and good.
PINSKY: Mark, your question?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Yes. My concern, Sky, is I want closure, at least, in the criminal arena for the family. But, see, I know what comes next. For example, there`s three women on Arizona`s death row. One of them is Deborah Milky. And during the Arias trial, even though she`s spent 23 years on death row, she just won a new trial. My concern for the family who is -- it`s for killing her own four-year-old son --
PINSKY: Oh my God!
EIGLARSH: -- because she wanted him out of the way. It`s horrible. But my concern is that the family is hinging their happiness on this process, which doesn`t seem to end. So, I`m wondering if they`re going to get the help that they need.
HUGHES: Yes. You know, they`re so appreciative for the offer that you and Dr. Drew made to get them, you know, the help that they need. And, they realize that this is something that will go on forever. But this is also a major milestone in being able to move on. You know, it`s been such a major focus for the last five years.
And they realize, you know, it`s going to linger for a while, but this is a big deal, and this is -- will allow some closure so that they can, you know, begin the healing process and begin to deal with the pain and the hurt that they`ve had.
PINSKY: Sky, thank you. I run out of time. We do appreciate you always being here. Please, the best from all of us back to the family. I`ve got to go off now to commercial.
HUGHES: Thank you.
PINSKY: Next up, jury was -- our jurors in the courtroom today. We`ll hear from them after the break.
But first, I want to bring in Vinnie Politan and Ryan Smith with a preview of "HLN After Dark."
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Dr. Drew. Coming up at the top of the hour, what happened today? Do you know what happened today? I`ve never seen anything quite like this. Her life is on the line.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: And everybody is dropping out. People aren`t speaking for her, and not only that, she gets another day to prepare for what`s going to be the biggest statement of her life.
POLITAN: That`s right. Tomorrow at 12:30, she`s going to get in front of the jury like we`ll be in front of our jury tonight and have her last opportunity to say something. What will she say? Well, I`m going to show everybody what I think she`s going to say. We`ll see how the jury responds to me. Hopefully, better than Jodi Arias. We`ll see.
SMITH: Top of the hour.
PINSKY: It is time for Drew`s jurors. I`m back with my co-host, Robi Ludwig. What will Jodi Arias say or do tomorrow as she faces the jury one last time? Joining us, Katie Wick and Angie May. Katie, the courtroom to me looked crazy today. You were there, describe it.
KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": It was absolutely insane. It was a lot of waiting around, not expecting anything, and then, when Nurmi says we`re not calling anybody or we`re not going to question anybody, you could hear people saying, "what?" "What is he doing?" But I think it`s a setup, obviously, for the appeals process.
What was interesting, though, Dr. Drew was to see the dissension on the defense side. I saw Nurmi and Jennifer over a lot together, and then I saw the mitigation specialist a lot with Jodi. Jennifer did not look like she wanted to be there at all.
PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting.
WICK: So, that was what really stuck out.
PINSKY: Interesting. Angie, how about the jurors? The juries in the courtroom, did they seem frustrated with the process?
ANGIE MAY, DR. DREW "JUROR": Absolutely. In fact, I watched all of them as they filed out of the courtroom. I`ve noticed two male jurors shake their heads like this and kind of you know, and then every juror, as they filed out, their lips were pursed. They seemed ticked off.
PINSKY: Robi, you have a question for the jurors?
LUDWIG: Yes. I`m wondering if you could sense the tension between Jodi and her attorneys today?
WICK: Absolutely. I sensed -- and I know Angie did, too. We were talking (ph) that we completely sensed that. And that`s why I think she spent so much time in cahoots talking with the mitigation specialist versus -- we thought Nurmi was just kind of get up and walk out and take his vacation.
PINSKY: Wow! Wouldn`t that have been something?
MAY: He grabbed his briefcase. And it seemed like he was -- I don`t know. it was really weird. We were all kind of looking at each other, because he grabbed his briefcase like he was just going to hid out the door and leave.
PINSKY: Very interesting. I`m sure that`s what he wanted to do, by the way. He`s stuck in there.
MAY: I know. I`m sure.
PINSKY: A lot going on between the judge and him as well. Very interesting. Ladies, thank you so much.
Next up, we will have the latest on the killer tornado in Oklahoma. We are going to be looking on live pictures. Is that a live picture now we`re looking at in -- yes, this is live pictures of the school that was devastated in this Oklahoma tornado. We`ll have more after this.
PINSKY: It is time for the last call. And as we told you earlier, a devastating tornado ripped through the Oklahoma City area this afternoon. Schools, homes, many of the structures torn to bits by a two-mile wide weather system, 30 square miles of devastation. You`re looking at live pictures there right now. At least 51 people have died, including seven children.
The search and rescue operation continues at this hour. You can see darkness has set in, making it all that much more difficult. Robi, you know, Sky`s emotions sort of struck me. I can really very strongly to how she`s feeling upset. We`re having to hear again in the media, children dead in just the most -- just awful circumstances. It`s a night to, wouldn`t you agree, first of all, say a prayer for those people in Oklahoma City.
PINSKY: But secondly, be grateful for what you have. Kiss your children, gets your priority straight.
PINSKY: Just sort of realigns everything. And once again, another devastating disaster. Anything else people can do tonight to really sort of count their blessings?
LUDWIG: Just, you know, say a prayer for the people who are dealing with this devastation and give a kiss and hug to the people you love and be grateful for what you have. It`s sometimes very easy to forget, but during times like this, it maybe makes it a little bit easier.
PINSKY: Yes. Gratitude is a very important emotion. And if those of you who are listening in Oklahoma City and that area have had to -- their children have had to witness something, this has been -- you know, we saw interviews with kids. They`re sixth graders who`ve watched their whole town destroyed.
Oftentimes, your reassurance and just letting them know they`re going to be safe. And by the way, kids have a way of thinking they`re next. You know, if you have children at home there watching this footage, reassure them about -- they`re being safe, that you will protect them, and teach them what they need to know to keep themselves safe and take care of themselves. And if they witnessed disaster, try to get them some help.
You can reduce the risk of going from acute stress disorder which is normal to posttraumatic stress disorder which is a real condition. Our thoughts are with you, Oklahoma area city residents tonight.
Robi, thank you so much for joining me tonight.
LUDWIG: Thank you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Tomorrow, we will have juror number eight back with us exclusively to react to Jodi speaking in court. Thank you all for watching, of course. And a reminder that "HLN After Dark" starts right now.