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No Unanimous Agreement on Life or Death for Jodi Arias
Aired May 23, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from outside the Maricopa County Courthouse. Breaking news. Something is happening up there on the fifth floor. We know that deputies have cleared out the spectators over here. Check out the media. Everybody waiting for what is going to happen. What is happening?
Now, I`ve got to tell you, they`ve been deliberating for three days now. Life or death for Jodi Arias. They`ve deliberated approximately 13 hours and 20 minutes. We`ve heard that they asked a fourth question. This one seems a little bit different. We understand there are a lot of deputies up there on the fifth floor.
Selin Darkalstanian, our senior producer, you just ran downstairs from the fifth floor. What`s going on up there?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: Jane, there`s some sort of activity that`s different from the other questions they`ve had. Because before, we haven`t waited for Jodi`s family to arrive. They`ve gone ahead and asked the question and answered it.
This is different. There`s a bunch of marshals and sheriff`s officers. They just went into the courtroom. I was just upstairs. I came down to let you know this. And Jodi`s family hasn`t arrived yet. We saw all of the Alexander family go into the courtroom. We saw Juan Martinez go into the courtroom and a bunch of officers from the prosecutor`s office go in.
So we don`t know what`s going on. The door open, and I saw the judge on the bench. They closed it again. The media is not allowed to go in until the defense attorneys and Jodi`s family have arrived.
So we don`t know what`s going on, but this one is different.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This one is different. We sense that even out here. Because all of our viewers have seen, we`ve had people fly in from as far as New Jersey because they`ve been watching, and they see that there`s a bunch of people over here. Now this, they cleared that area out. Yes, there`s this family walking up here. But aside from that, there were dozens and dozens of people. We saw deputies clear them up.
Mike Galanos, you`re up there on the fifth floor. What`s going on? You`re outside the courtroom.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR (via phone): Just a few feet outside the doors. There is a buzz outside this courtroom now. One of the authorities here just told people who are not reporters to move to the other side. So they are clearing the deck so the reporters can get in and get a seat.
As Selin said, we saw Travis Alexander`s family very stern, very anxious when they walked into the prosecution witness room. Juan Martinez walked right past me with a smile on his face, and he shrugged his shoulders.
Now walking out of the courtroom as we speak, Tanisha, one of Travis`s sisters, she is about five feet from me right now, looking for some of her family and friends, as well. So we are waiting anxiously. And as Selin also said, will Jodi Arias`s family arrive? If they do, something big could go down, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I get the sense that this is different. Three questions were asked previously. The third question was kept secret. This is supposedly question No. 4. But it sounds like it might be a different kind of question.
I want to bring in Barrett. Barrett Marson. Come on in, sir. You are the former communications director for the Arizona Department of Corrections. And you have yourself personally witnessed several executions. We`re going get to that in a little bit.
But first of all, as somebody who`s just very savvy about what`s going on. We know yesterday, of course, what they -- all right, we`re going to move over here a bit.
We know yesterday about a couple of hours in, they came in and they said, "We can`t reach a decision. We are stumped." The judge said go back and work some more.
So they come back early today. They`ve been deliberating now over three days for over 13 hours. And it seems like something big is going on. What do you think it is?
BARRETT MARSON, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: Well, they`re stumped, clearly. And so now, you`ve got -- it`s a waiting game. We don`t know if there`s one hold out or if they`re evenly split. I think it`s going to take a little time to figure it out. But one thing is clear. This jury really is paying attention and really is focused on its job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen. Listen, there`s a question. Is this a normal question or what kind of a question could it be?
MARSON: Well, it could be a question of what happens if we can`t decide? What is the next step, if we just can`t decide? They`ve been at it all day today. So if they haven`t been able to reach a decision after about eight hours today or six hours today, I think that says a lot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to our expert panel. I want to debate what could be going on, because we really don`t know. All we know is that this is different from previous questions. The idea that they would be waiting, perhaps, for the family of Jodi Arias to get there, what could that -- what could that indicate, starting with Jordan Rose for the prosecution?
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Well, it`s interesting. I mean, normally, they would say, "We have a verdict." And so, I really don`t think there`s a verdict. Maybe just another juror question, Jane.
But interestingly, yesterday the question was, "Heck, we can`t come to a decision." And so, it`s very possible that they come back and say that.
I have to believe this jury is going to work through tomorrow or next week even to come to a unanimous decision, just because they put so much time into this process. We shall see.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, this is a life or death decision: to put somebody to death or not. It`s perhaps the most serious decision a human being can make in the course of their lifetime. And remember, defense attorney Jennifer Willmott emphasized that in a very dramatic fashion during her closing arguments in the penalty phase of this case. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, JODI`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The simple question that`s before you is do you kill her? That`s the question. She has done something very bad. She did. And you have convicted her for that. You have told her that she is guilty of first-degree murder for that.
But the question is now, do you kill her?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it: to kill or not to kill. This is perhaps the most serious thing that anyone in their lifetime can possibly decide. Do you think, Jon Leiberman, they have come to the conclusion that they just can`t make that call?
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I absolutely don`t think so, Jane. I think this jury has been meticulous from the start. They`ve been detail- oriented. And they`re not just going to rush through something.
I think this jury is going to work it out. Maybe there`s one holdout; maybe there`s two holdouts. But to suggest that Jennifer Willmott`s closing somehow was kind of the thing that`s going to save Jodi`s life, by saying that Jodi did something very bad, excuse me, she didn`t do something very bad. She did something heinous. She heinously and tragically and any other word you want to say. She slaughtered Travis Alexander. This was much more than very bad.
But Jane, I think this jury wants to get it done tonight. I don`t think they want to get through the long holiday weekend and have to come back on Tuesday. I see them getting it done tonight.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anahita Sedaghatfar for the defense.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I couldn`t disagree with Jon more when he said that that closing by Jennifer Willmott was not going to make a difference.
Jane, I think if those jurors spare Jodi Arias`s life, it will be in spite of Jodi Arias and because of that excellent, excellent, effective close by Jennifer Willmott. I mean, standing behind Jodi Arias, putting her hands on her shoulders and looking those jurors square in the eye and saying, "Do you want to put this woman to death?" I mean, that personalized it. That put those jurors in the place of the executioner. That had to have some effect on those jurors.
They`re deciding whether or not to take this woman`s life. And wow, that moment was so powerful. And I guarantee you, if there is a holdout, more than one holdout, it will be because of that closing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to jump back in. Jodi Arias and the defense attorneys are now inside the courtroom. Are we still seeing the seal, guys, or are we seeing what`s going on in the courtroom? Because we are seeing the seal until everybody who is supposed to be there is there. So, the fact that we`re seeing that seal, which is live -- they had deliberated 13 hours and 33 minutes, but we don`t know right now, what is going on. All we know is that everybody, everybody is converging in that courtroom, and the second that that seal pulls back to a shot of the judge, more will be revealed.
Meantime, Vinnie Politan, what can you glean from everything that`s going on?
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: This is a big moment. I wouldn`t go anywhere. Stay right where you are, folks, because something huge is about to happen inside that courtroom. This is different than the way the questions were handled previously. The extra security, we`re late in the day. The jury`s been working hard. Something is happening.
Could it be a verdict? Could it be "What do we do, your honor? We can`t agree." I mean, there is some big decision, big moment that`s about to happen on the fifth floor in the courthouse right behind me, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to tell you, there is a sense, almost like that quiet before the storm. The deputies have cleared out all the folks here. It was tons of people. They came, a half a dozen deputies, and said, "Everybody out."
And then upstairs, you had so many, so many deputies that suddenly converged. They said more deputies than they`ve ever seen before.
Mike Galanos, you are there, I understand, standing right outside the courtroom door, which is as far as you could get with a phone on. What do you see and hear?
GALANOS: Well, same thing, Jane. I mentioned last time we spoke that one of Travis`s sisters, Tanisha, she walked past me. Then she huddled up with a group of, say, eight people, a very tight-knit huddle. There was a discussion going on. And then that broke up. She went back into the prosecution witness room.
In the meantime, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), she went right into court. And as you have mentioned, Jodi Arias and her attorneys are in court, as well.
So we are watching. We are waiting. There`s security, I think three or four security guards we can see. When Jodi Arias`s family arrives, we were told clear out in case they do, give them a path to that courtroom, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know you`re whispering. I know you are whispering because you`re right outside the courtroom where all this is happening. Did you say, Mike, that Jodi Arias`s family has arrived or not? Because I think that`s actually crucial, because the last time they had a question, my understanding is the Arias family wasn`t there, and they proceeded. As long as the defendant is there or the convicted murderer is there, they can -- they can still have their hearing.
But the fact that they`re waiting for the family, the family of Jodi Arias says to me that something definitive is happening. Quickly explain that, if you can, Mike.
GALANOS: They -- they have not arrived, Jane. They have not arrived. We were told to clear out in case they do arrive. So will they? We can`t say 100 percent for sure that`s going to happen. But that`s what we`re waiting for right now, potentially, is their arrival. And as you`re saying, something big could be coming down.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. You sense it. I sense it, with every molecule in my body, that this is different.
Clancy Talbot, you are a dear friend of the victim, Travis Alexander, the man whose throat was slit. He was stabbed 29 times and shot in the face.
I`ve seen the family walk in and out of here. This is agonizing. They were devastated yesterday when the jury told the judge initially, "We can`t decide," and the judge said, "Go back and think about it and work on it some more." What do you think is happening?
CLANCY TALBOT, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I don`t know. Just like you said earlier, it`s kind of like, you know, reading tea leaves, as you said earlier, yesterday, when they told us they couldn`t come to a decision. I mean, I felt like somebody kicked me in the stomach. So I can only imagine what the Alexander family felt at that time.
I mean, right now, we, you know, everyone`s guess is as good as anyone else`s. But it must be something more than a question.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Clancy, we`re going to go back to Mike Galanos. We`re hearing there`s developments upstairs on the fifth floor -- Mike.
GALANOS: Jane, we`re going in now. We have not seen any of Jodi Arias`s family arrive. But we as the media, we are heading in. So we will find out soon enough what is going to take place now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, just to clarify, you`re saying -- is the judge on the bench or is the judge still waiting on the sidelines?
GALANOS: I`m trying to get a look in there. And I see Kirk Nurmi standing. I cannot -- the judge is in there, Jane. Yes, and I`m walking through as we speak. Let me let you run, Jane. I`ll get back to you as soon as I can.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, Mike Galanos. Vinnie Politan, we have our team up there. Beth Karas, Jean Casarez, Selin Darkalstanian, Mike Galanos. They`re all in the courtroom. But we`re still, my understanding, on that seal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So the judge is not on the bench, yet. Give us a sense of this process and what is going on and why they`re waiting, possibly, for the Arias family.
POLITAN: Well, it seemed that everyone was being briefed. You know, you had the victim advocate speaking with Travis Alexander`s family. You have Kirk Nurmi, the defense team, speaking with Jodi Arias. Juan Martinez also speaking with the family.
So, it seems all those folks kind of know exactly what is about to happen and they are prepared for that moment.
The question is, will they wait for Jodi Arias`s family? They don`t have to. It is a courtesy. Jodi Arias is there. The victim`s family is there. The lawyers are there. So they could proceed with whatever is about to happen. As a courtesy, they may wait for the family, or they may begin without Jodi Arias`s family there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there`s possibilities. One possibility: that they have this complex question that perhaps is not the be-all and end-all. Oh, but then there`s the possibility that it is the moment of truth. Let`s go to Nancy Grace who is joining us.
Nancy, what do you think is happening right now?
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Well, I find it very interesting. You don`t typically bring in families of the parties for a question.
It could be a deadlock. It could be a question like there are people on the jury that won`t deliberate anymore. It could be an issue of somebody is going to be thrown off that jury, and they`re going to have to put in an alternate.
It is a different tone. There is something going on besides the regular, run-of-the-mill questions that have largely been asked and answered without us even knowing and being kept under seal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our producer, Jackie Taurianen, has been getting e- mails. You`re getting little tidbits. Give us your latest tidbit.
JACKIE TAURIANEN, HLN PRODUCER: So we`re hearing that Jodi is inside talking to her attorneys. The judge is still not on the bench. And we`re still looking at that seal, which I`m sure everybody at home can see. Jodi is inside. She`s talking with her attorneys back and forth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is what I don`t understand, Nancy. Maybe you could explain it. Usually when there is, let`s say, a verdict, we all get the word at the same time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bing, bing, bing, verdict. And everybody jumps out of their seat.
In this case, it was different. It was more of a gradual, sort of slow-moving wave. First, they cleared out all the folks who were standing here. Then we hear deputies are converging up on the fifth floor. Then we hear the family of Travis Alexander is going on. It`s still on the seal. Then we hear prosecutor Juan Martinez is in there. Jodi Arias is in there with her attorneys. And there seems to be a waiting game. What does that sound like to you in terms of the options?
GRACE: Well, Jane, I`ve never had a verdict come in where they didn`t ring the buzzer and that means you`ve got a verdict. I`ve never had it happen the way this is going down, which suggests it`s not a verdict.
Although I`m telling you, for just a run-of-the-mill question, another jury question, you don`t bring in the defendant`s family; you don`t bring in the victim`s family. They`re handled in chambers. And it`s SOP, standard operating procedure.
So obviously, whatever is brewing in that courtroom is not run-of-the- mill. It could be a turn in the tide. It`s either a verdict, hung jury, or they`re going to have to throw somebody off the jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve got some new information, Jackie. What is it?
TAURIANEN: We`re hearing the entire Alexander family is inside. There`s still no sign of Jodi`s family. We`re also getting from Jean Casarez that Kirk Nurmi is intently talking with Jennifer Willmott, hands are on his hips, and the mitigation specialist is seated and intently talking to Jodi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you make of that, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, it`s interesting. If they -- if they`re having this kind of conversation, again -- and we`re all just looking through the mirror darkly. If there`s a verdict, I don`t think that`s what you would see. You would not see a flurry of discussion with the mitigation specialist. They wouldn`t be hashing out their next step or arguing.
If there was a verdict, everybody would be sitting there like this, waiting very tensely. Nobody would be talking. Nobody would be standing up, going back and forth. I just don`t see that that`s what that is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let me ask you this one question. Obviously, they were stuck yesterday. The judge says go back and work some more. Let`s say they got an indication, the judge, that they`re still stuck through this question. It`s a question that indicates that they are stuck. Could there be some kind of back-room dealing going on, sort of a plea bargain situation where the prosecutor is saying...
GRACE: Don`t say that to me. Don`t say that to me. I`m not buying it. I do not think Martinez and the Travis Alexander family would have endured what they have gone through, would have fought as hard as they have fought to just lay down and say, "Go ahead, run over me." No. No, no. I don`t see it. I don`t see Martinez backing down. If anything, I would see him wanting to restrike a new jury, pronto.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jackie, you`ve got some new information?
TAURIANEN: This is just coming in, really, really quick. Jodi appears to be very, very upset. Looks like the mitigation specialist is actually giving her a pep talk. Still no word on what is actually happening inside, but she appears to be giving her some kind of pep talk.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vinnie Politan, what do you make of it?
POLITAN: This is -- I`m with Nancy on this. I think there`s some question that`s going to -- it`s a big, big issue here. Jodi Arias appearing upset might be what is the result of this question? What is the judge going to do about this possible question?
And does it have to do with this jury being stuck, that this jury reaching some sort of an impasse, that they all can`t get on the same page right now? And that may be very well what it may be. And that could be the end of the trial for this jury. We have to wait and see. But whatever it is, it is huge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the deliberation clock is continuing, because we haven`t gotten word that it stopped. So it`s at 13:44. So again, that also perplexes me, Nancy. How could they continue deliberating when it seems like the entire world is stopped to wait to find out what exactly has happened? Is it possible that -- go ahead.
GRACE: Well, I`m just saying that the reality is, if there`s a verdict, it`s typically handled much differently than this. It`s just like we were talking about earlier. It`s announced there`s a verdict, and then everyone rushes to the courtroom. It`s not handled the way it is right now.
Now, it -- but that I`m hearing the mitigation specialist is giving Arias a pep talk, that sounds more like a verdict. But if the lawyers are arguing back and forth, that`s not a verdict. There`s nothing to argue about at the verdict point; it`s over.
But if they are plotting something like "What are we going to do if we lose juror number whatever, 18," that`s something they`d be talking about.
What if they got, "OK, the jury is stuck, 11-1 for death penalty. We`ve got one juror that refuses to deliberate. What are we going to do?" Because they`ve been out now for so long on this one issue, it seems to me that there is a core group, one or a few more, that are dug in, and they`re not deliberating anymore. That`s what I think is happening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vinnie, I understand you have an update for us?
POLITAN: I have an update? No. I don`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me bring in this gentleman, who was the public information officer for the Arizona Department of Corrections for several years, and you witnessed several executions in that time. So you certainly understand, sir, how momentous this decision is.
If she gets life versus the death penalty, the irony is that initially, she goes to the same exact facility and is put in an identical cell. Tell us about that quickly.
MARSON: Absolutely. She`ll be in the same kind of place whether she gets life or death. She`ll be at least three years, if she were to get life, in the same type of cell that she would be in if she spent the rest of her life on Death Row.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And my understanding is that, because they have this huge facility and they only have three women in Arizona on Death Row, they`ve got to use it for other people. Therefore, they use it for women who are sentenced to life. Therefore, she would go to the same exact location -- Nancy.
GRACE: I`m understanding that now Jodi Arias is full on crying in court and blowing her nose, and the defense attorneys are now comforting her in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I just have to wonder, what could it be? Because if it was a verdict, we would know it another way, likely, as you mentioned. And if it`s a hung jury, wouldn`t she be kind of whistling a happy tune?
GRACE: Yes, absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wouldn`t that be something that would be a better...
GRACE: Yes, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it doesn`t make any sense. But then again, her reactions, her emotional reactions, Nancy, as we know, never make any sense. So the fact that she`s having a reaction that sounds like something tragic has happened to her is no indication that she`s gotten the bad news, because she`s very likely to have an inappropriate reaction.
Let`s go to the court. It`s starting. Something`s happening. Let`s just go.
JUDGE SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING OVER TRIAL: Please be seated. The record will show the presence of the jury, the defendant and all counsel.
Ladies and gentlemen, I understand you have reached a verdict. The bailiff will please approach with the verdict.
The clerk will read and record the verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, sentencing verdict. We, the jury, duly empaneled and sworn in the above entitled action upon our oath do unanimously find, having considered all the facts and circumstances, that the defendant should be sentenced -- no unanimous agreement, signed foreperson.
Is this your true verdict, so say you one and all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
STEPHENS: Ladies and gentlemen, the bailiff will ask each -- sorry, the clerk will ask you questions. Please answer yes or no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 1, is this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jury No. 2, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 3, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 4, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 6, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 7, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 9, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 12, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 13, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 14, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 16, is your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror No. 18, is this your true verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
STEPHENS: Declaring a mistrial as to the penalty phase. The order is setting a retrial in the penalty phase for July 18 in this division. This is a status conference in this division on penalty phase matters for June 20 at 8:30 a.m.
Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of the participants in this trial, I wish to thank you for your extraordinary service to this community.
This was not your typical trial. You were asked to perform very difficult responsibilities.
The admonition is now lifted. You are free to talk about the case or not talk about it as you wish. I will be back shortly to personally thank each of you for your service. You are excused.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please stand for the jury.
GRACE: And the verdict is, there is no verdict. There had to be a unanimous agreement, life or death. That`s why this was handled different than an ordinary verdict. Because the reality is, there is no verdict.
For those of you just joining us, the jury is locked. Deadlocked. Hung. Mistrial. That`s why there was no "bzzz, there`s a verdict." Because this jury is stuck.
After hearing evidence since January with Travis Alexander`s family crying on the front row, clutching each other, they announce in open court they cannot agree.
We are live, camped out in front of the courthouse where a stunning blow has been dealt to the state and to the family of murder victim Travis Alexander. The faces, the looks on their faces said it all, as Jodi Arias breathes a sigh of relief.
She has another chance. Another chance to convince yet another jury, and yes, it`s set now for July 18. Her wait won`t be long. She`ll get a chance to convince another jury to give her life. Life, on which she could walk in 20 years, because she`s still a young woman.
Do I have Jane Velez-Mitchell with me? I think I`ve got Jane. I want to go out to Jane and find out what`s happening in front of the courthouse. Everyone in this courtroom is stunned.
For those of you just joining us, repeat, there is no verdict. Hung jury. Out to Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s absolute shock. We have three trial watchers here who are crying. Why -- why is this so emotional for you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just so devastating to see how hard everybody tried to prove their case. And I understand that the jurors are just doing their job, but we all wanted it to end today. We all wanted rest for ourselves, rest for the family. I just wanted it to be over with. And I really thought that it would be a unanimous decision.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m shocked. I was positive that they were going to figure this out. Shocked. I feel so bad for the family. I don`t want them to have to go through this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kathy (ph), known as Cane Lady, you`ve been the most famous court watcher here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so surreal. I mean, it`s just -- it should be no, no contest at this point. And I just don`t understand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Michael Ann (ph), your father was murdered, and you were here to get closure, not just for Travis, but for Travis and your own suffering. Your reaction to this hung jury?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m absolutely sick. It`s just not right. I can`t believe that the jurors were picked knowing that this was a death penalty case and that they can`t come up with the right decision. It`s not right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy, you see here, people just hugging and crying. I mean, they`re still weeping. It`s just -- it`s overwhelming. People are just stunned, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, I`m stunned, too. At worst, I thought that the judge would give them a break, let them have Friday off, let them have Monday off, come back fresh on Tuesday. But I did not anticipate that they would give up this quickly.
Remember, last time Martinez had a very similar case, a female up for the death penalty, the jury went out. They came back, said they were locked. Gave them the dynamite, the Allen charge. They came back ten hours later with the verdict of the death penalty.
But here, from the very beginning, Jane, somebody back in that jury deliberation room was dug in. Dug in. They would not deliberate life or death. They would not move off their opinion. And that means, really, they shouldn`t have been in that jury room if they couldn`t continue to deliberate which means discuss openly with the other jurors.
I want to go straight out to Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew, what went wrong?
PINSKY: Well, Nancy, it may not have gone wrong. Maybe what went right? This is our system functioning.
Both you and I really talk about the necessary, deliberative process and I believe there was a woman that Jean Casarez reported on when they rendered the first degree murder verdict who was crying, was very upset when she put pen to page for that particular verdict. And I predicted then, that woman would not be able to render the death penalty. She had enough difficulty giving a first degree murder charge. So, they get hung.
GRACE: Yes. The deliberations phase, regarding guilt and innocence - - very, very telling. And many seasoned court watchers didn`t believe then that this jury would be able to give a death sentence.
When you say what went right after a six-month trial, Dr. Drew, with this type of evidence and the torture it put the victim`s family through, it did go wrong. It went horribly wrong because now, they are going to have to endure the whole thing essentially, the whole thing again.
PINSKY: Well that`s horrible. I agree.
That`s horrible. But are you saying Nancy, the only viable outcome is death? That`s the only viable outcome otherwise our system isn`t working?
GRACE: Well, of course not. That doesn`t even make any sense Dr. Drew. I don`t even know what you`re saying.
PINSKY: That`s what it sounded like you were saying. That`s what it sounded you were saying.
GRACE: Well, obviously, you need to have your IFV checked because it could have easily been life. There were two choices. But this jury couldn`t reach a choice.
So all around, the only person that benefits from this in any way would be Jodi Arias.
PINSKY: Jodi. Yes.
GRACE: Out to Jane. Hi, Jane, can you hear me?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Yes, I can, Nancy. I`m here with the entire HLN team who just ran down from the fifth floor -- Jean, Mike, Beth. Jean, the emotion of it, what was it like in there?
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the most emotion I have seen in this courtroom. It was driven in part by the judge who was hardly able to tell the jury that she appreciated their work. I saw tears on the jury. The jury seemed worn out. They were pale, they were peaked. Obviously, the Alexander family I saw cry. Jodi Arias` family, they were not in the courtroom. Jodi was actively crying.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN CORRESPONDENT: I could hear the sobs from Travis Alexander`s family. You mentioned Jean the emotion from jurors. One female juror looked at Travis Alexander`s family and said "I`m sorry, I`m so sorry" with tears in her eyes. Another juror was shaking as she left the courtroom.
BETH KARAS, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I tried to detect something from the jury as they were being polled and each of them just very said boldly, yes, it`s my verdict. It`s strange that a verdict is a hung jury. Usually it`s not a verdict. They unanimously agreed that they are not unanimous. That was the language of this verdict.
It`s the first time I have seen a hung jury as a verdict. In any even as each of them boldly said "That`s my verdict, that`s my verdict." Number 16, who was the juror who was off by herself, sort of leaning against the wall at the lunch hour when four of them were seen downstairs, she`s the one who rather meekly said "yes". I think number 16 has a story to tell.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that story would be that she was the lone holdout -- which way?
KARAS: I don`t know. I don`t know.
CASAREZ: This was the juror that I have been fixated on from the beginning. She looks like Jodi Arias` mother and she was very defiant in the guilt phase and she was very defiant today. I don`t know what that means but she wouldn`t give in to something.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back to you, Nancy.
GRACE: Just settling in. Now we learn that one of the jurors turned to the Travis Alexander family and mouthed the words, "I`m sorry". I don`t know if we can play back the shot of the family. Look at them. They are stunned. They are looking at the jury in shock -- looking at them. It`s not really even sinking in to them there is no, in common terms, a verdict of life or death. The verdict is there is no verdict. This jury deadlocked, hung.
Everybody, we are live. A stunned, a stunned courthouse -- out to you, Vinnie. I want to hear your reaction.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN HOST: You talk about cruel and unusual punishment, Nancy, that`s what`s going to happen to Travis Alexander`s family having to go through this again because at the retrial, all those photos have to be shown to these new jurors. They have to hear all the details of what happened to their brother again. And then again, they will be sitting in the same place they are today, sitting in a courtroom waiting for a verdict from the jury, trying -- you know they are going to be there, Nancy. There`s no way they don`t show up for the next trial. They put their lives on hold this long, they will do it again.
And from where I`m sitting, that`s what I`m thinking about. And that`s what I`m worried about because I look at his brother and he just looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.
GRACE: You know what, Vin, if I had to live through my fiance`s murder trial again, I don`t know if I could physically or emotionally do it. Because Vinnie, I remember getting a case to retry, 14 years after the original trial. Somebody else tried it the first time and it went all the way up and got reversed. They had to retry the case and the victims were so upset. Vinnie, it`s terrible.
POLITAN: It absolutely is. And you see -- I mean they wear it on their faces. You can tell. And I think people have been watching this trial have felt it. The impact statements that they made, they poured their hearts out and told us things that I have never heard from a victim family before about what this has done to them and what it means to them.
And I know they are coming back in July and will be there every step of the way. They are going to have to find the strength somewhere. You know, they talked about finding the strength from their brother, Travis. And somehow, someway in the next month or is it two months from now, they are going to have to find that strength somewhere in their family to be there again, Nancy.
GRACE: You are right, Vinnie. The date has been set for July 18. Everyone we are continuing our coverage, stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRY STEPHENS, PRESIDING JUDGE: Ladies and gentlemen, I understand you have reached a verdict. The bailiff will please approach with the verdict.
Thank you. The clerk will read and record the verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, sentencing verdict. We the jury duly empanelled and sworn on above entitled action upon our oath unanimously find having considered all the facts and circumstances that the defendant should be sentenced, no unanimous agreement. Signed, foreperson.
STEPHENS: Is this your true verdict so say you one and all?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, sentencing verdict. We the jury duly empanelled and sworn on above entitled action upon our oath unanimously find having considered all the facts and circumstances that the defendant should be sentenced -- no unanimous agreement. Signed, foreperson.
STEPHENS: Is this your true verdict so say you one and all?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, there is the verdict of sorts. The jury announces they are hung. They cannot reach a verdict. Everyone was called to the courtroom. The families were called to the courtroom. Extra bailiffs, armed guards were called to the courtroom and began guarding it. The judge took the stand, took the bench and finally announced in open court, it was stated, we cannot reach a verdict. What does it mean?
Straight out to Jean Casarez; and also Jean, is it true one of the jurors turned to Travis Alexander`s family and said the words "I`m sorry"?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Jean, Nancy is asking you about the juror who may have said the words "I`m sorry".
CASAREZ: Well, you know, Mike Galanos was the one that saw that. And I asked him. He said it was a juror from the front row. That would have been, I believe, a deliberating juror. A juror in the back row that was literally sobbing as the verdict was being read that it was a hung jury. She is an alternate. But she was the one that I visibly heard and saw as they were still seated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I just want to paint a picture, Nancy, all the folks have been moved behind pens over here, you see the court watchers and the media. You have another slew of media across from the courthouse steps because the Alexander family could be coming down here any second now and everybody, of course, wants to try to get a sense of what they are going through.
But we know. They are shattered. They are destroyed by this. They put their lives on hold for so many years and now, absolutely no closure, whatsoever. You know that this is like a punch to the stomach.
GRACE: Do you recall when they were stating to the jury, giving their victim impact statements to the jury how the one brother was describing when he would leave California to come back to court and his children would just hang on to him and beg him, "Daddy don`t go back to court, don`t go back." He said he had to. He had to be there every single day for this.
With me right now, Mike Galanos inside the courthouse. Mike, tell me everything.
GALANOS: Nancy, I was two rows behind Travis Alexander`s family. There was so much to take in, so much emotion. Jodi Arias, she looked upset. Juan Martinez, I`d seen him smiling. They had the Kleenex lined up for Travis Alexander`s family. And when that decision came down, I could hear the sobs. I could feel the emotion from Travis Alexander`s family.
And then as the jury filed out I saw one of the female jurors crying, looked up at one of the sisters and mouthed the words, "I`m sorry, I`m so sorry." Another juror so upset, her hands were shaking, Nancy. That`s just a taste of some of the emotion. But I`ll never forget that scene of that juror mouthing those words, "I am sorry" to the Alexander family.
GRACE: Mike Galanos, I am hearing in my ear right now that we are awaiting a possible jury presser where the jury will give a statement and possibly take questions. I have a few questions for them. And it`s not that we are angry -- we`re not angry with the jury, but we are angry that justice cannot be served with a verdict one way or the other way.
Out to you, Monica Lindstrom, weigh in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Monica, Nancy is asking that the frustration because there is no closure here and there is no verdict. The verdict is "We can`t agree", which is sort of a strange verdict and we`ve all been commenting, we haven`t ever heard it sort of pronounced that way.
MONICA LINDSTROM, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right. There is no closure here. We`re going to have to do part of this all over again. The poor family -- on both sides have to be just beside themselves. We heard Jean just talk about how the jurors, even one of the alternates visibly sobbing, very upset. They didn`t get closure either and they have been doing it for five or six months of their lives.
So it`s very unfortunate. But at least we know that we will be doing it again in a couple of months. Probably not here in Maricopa County because I think that will be tough to find a good jury. But it is going to happen again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you know, I have to say, how is it possible that it can happen again, a trial that lasts from January until now where the defendant was on the stand for 18 days. If she`s ever given a chance to be on the stand, Nancy, don`t you think she`s going to take that ball and run with it and try to stay on the stand for 40 days this time?
GRACE: Well, I don`t know about that, Jane because her 18 days on the stand, I think, was what did her in. I think that she had a much better chance at manslaughter, at the least or not guilty if she had never taken a stand because once that jury got to know her and got to see her in action lying, I think that was the nail in the coffin for Jodi Arias as far as guilt or innocence.
We`re getting reports from inside the courtroom that jurors 17 and 5 were openly crying there in the jury box -- openly crying. Everyone, we are also learning that there is about to be a jury press conference where the jury all or partial are going to speak to the press and actually answer questions.
You are seeing a shot right now of the Travis Alexander family absolutely devastated -- devastated that this jury locked. Many court watchers believed the jury would have a long weekend and come back refreshed and ready to deliberate.
You are seeing right now live aerials from KTVK outside the courthouse. There are people are out there waiting to touch, to speak, to give their condolences to Travis Alexander`s family. Take a look as what is happening.
Hold on, I`m getting word in my ear. What can you tell me, control room? Are the jurors ready? Excuse me. They are. The jurors are getting together right now. They are assembling and they are about to do a public statement -- giving a public statement, the first peek inside jury deliberations.
Jean Casarez and Beth Karas are on their way to meet with the jury, to hear what they have to say. I want to hear what they have to say. I really do.
For those of you just joining us, it is not a verdict, it is a non- verdict, the jury comes into the courtroom and announces they cannot reach a decision. No unanimous agreement is their verdict.
Out to Jordan Rose, most jurisdictions don`t have anything like this. Arizona is a completely different animal.
JORDAN ROSE, ATTORNEY: Right, I mean this is -- this is shocking, Nancy. And it is going to put this family back through this horrific process again starting in July. How they`re going to find an unbiased jury in Maricopa County, Arizona, is really questionable. But how they`re going to find an unbiased jury anywhere in America frankly -- --
GRACE: I think you`re putting the cart before the horse right now. You know, let me just meet you on that argument, O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Tot Mom Casey Anthony -- boom, they`ll find the jury. They may move it over a county but remember you have to be careful with that, because if the defense asks for a change of venue, they`re not getting another prosecutor. Oh now. They`re going to get Martinez, and he`s going to be very irritated he has to go to another jurisdiction to try this case.
So long story short, they may get another jurisdiction to try -- another venue for the case but it could be an even conservative venue than Maricopa County. What about it, Vinnie?
POLITAN: There are four million people in Maricopa County, roughly. So I think they may have a chance here, you know, four million, it`s one of the largest counties in the country. So maybe they can find those 12 to 18 people who have heard about what happened but may be able to put it aside and base their life or death verdict on solely on what happened in the courtroom.
You know, thinking about the length of this next trial or mini-trial or sentencing phase, penalty phase -- whatever we want to call it -- I think it will be quicker because I don`t think Jodi Arias goes up there and testifies, Nancy because then what happens? She has to be cross examined by Juan Martinez, I think she will sit back and do that little allocution at the end where nobody -- where she doesn`t have to answer questions. She just tells her little story to these new jurors.
GRACE: MITCHELL: Well, I want to go out to Clancy Talbot, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. I would like to hear her reaction to the jury`s announcement.
CLANCY TALBOT, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: It is devastating. It`s really devastating to watch the family and their reaction. And just think of what they`re going to have to go through still, some more. It is just dragging on forever. And it is frustrating.
I`m angry, I`m sad. I`m -- I have a lot of mixed emotions. I`m just -- it`s so frustrating. And to watch his family it is just heartbreaking.
GRACE: You know, Clancy, to me, it would be more than frustrating. It would be heart-breaking and having been in the family`s shoes before I would feel that there is no justice that the system has failed. But it has not. It has not failed. This isn`t the end of state versus Jodi Arias.
We are live waiting to go to the jury presser, stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias, sentencing verdict. We the jury duly empanelled and sworn on above entitled action upon our oath unanimously find, having considered all the facts and circumstances that the defendant should be sentenced, no unanimous agreement. Signed, foreperson.
STEPHENS: Is this your true verdict so say you one and all?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hung, hopelessly deadlocked -- a shocker. I was standing with some court watchers who spontaneously began sobbing when they heard this news, the frustrations, the months of waiting.
We are here right outside at the Maricopa County courthouse. You could see the steps right here. You could see the media gathered from all over the world. The Alexander family, the family of the victim, Travis Alexander, the man who was stabbed 29 times, whose throat was slit ear to ear, who was shot in the fact. They are likely, possibly going to be coming down these steps. That is what they have done every day that they have been here.
But what a difficult walk today. They have put their entire lives on hold. Travis was the only one of them who lived in Arizona. One`s a police officer in California. One was serving in the U.S. Army when he found out that his brother had been slaughtered. They had moved their lives here. They`ve been living out of suitcases for a very long time. They were hoping for some sort of closure today, they got none -- only more heartache.
Take a look quickly at the gathering assembly of media and court watchers. There is just a sense of unreality here as people try to really absorb this news.
And I want to go to Dr. Drew Pinsky, because Dr. Drew, you and I agree, 90 percent of human behavior is fuelled by the unconscious. There is logical thought and then there is the subconscious which truly guides us. And when you have watched somebody talk on the stand for 18 days, even though you may despise, when you have spent month after month, getting to know them in the same room, it becomes a lot hard to say you should die.
What are your thoughts? PINSKY: That is right, Jane. Jane, you are so right. And we`ve all talked throughout this trial that that was the main issue the defense was going for, to try to save her life. They were going for that very issue.
And let`s think about it this way. Think about the emotion that was expressed by the jurors today. Clearly those that felt most strongly, emotionally, intellectually and morally that Jodi Arias should get the death penalty. There must have been jurors in that mix as well that felt as powerfully emotional and convicted that she did not. That she should get life in prison.
So that is the kind of emotions that this kind of trial evokes. It shouldn`t be a surprise to us that it evoked it in and amongst the jurors. Just look on Twitter, you`ll see these same emotions flying around. And I think Jean Casarez is exactly right, focusing on that one juror that she saw that she said looks like Jodi Arias`s mother that had such difficulty rendering a first degree murder conviction. If you`re have trouble with the first degree murder you`re going to have trouble rendering the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are standing here in the unrelenting sunshine. It is in the 90s. We are all dripping. We are getting breaking news in, Jackie you have gotten two pieces of information.
Jackie, The latest is that the jurors have completely declined to talk. Their names are being sealed. We will have no idea who they are. They do not want to go forward, their lips are completely sealed.
Additionally, Juan Martinez is not talking at this time either. Looks like everyone just wants to get out of the courtroom as fast as they can and go home.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, you were hoping to go back in there for a jury news conference and now -- nothing.
KARAS: Right. And I`m not surprised. It doesn`t mean these jurors won`t talk. The few who were excused, the three who are excused, One never talked, Eleven, Five did talk, Eight did talk eventually. So these jurors may talk eventually. I am just not surprised today that they didn`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutor Juan Martinez is not talking.
KARAS: But you know what? The Alexander family got a first degree verdict, ok, they got a conviction. She`s either going to get life or death. So I know, you know -- some say there is no closure, but look, they got a good verdict in this case from their point of view. And it`s --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think it is very important that we put it in context, and I agree.
Straight out to our panelist, Jon Leiberman, what, to Beth Karas`s point -- we have to put this in the context of she was found guilty of murder one.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: The Alexander family got some justice; they didn`t get all of the justice they`re seeking. But Jane, I`ll tell you this, I think today is just going to motivate Juan Martinez more. I don`t see him taking death off the table, I do see him using Jodi`s media blitz over the 24 hours to her disadvantage in this next phase. The Alexander family will get justice they just didn`t completely get it today, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, we`ve just gotten some new information. It is going to happen all over again.
KARAS: Right, July 18th is the new trial date for the penalty phase, and June 20th is the status conference.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am now in shock. July, this is starting to happen all over again. I mean -- oh, my God.
CASAREZ: Let`s look at some reality, though, this is Maricopa County. This is a community that has lived with this case and breathed this case for five months. There may need to be a cooling off period. Plus, the defense may file a motion to change venue. There is no way that they are going to want the penalty phase tried in Maricopa County, Arizona.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to give Clancy a chance to speak. Less than a minute, Clancy, your thoughts, you were a friend of Travis.
TALBOT: I just want to -- my heart goes out to the family. And I just want to make sure that people are aware of the TravisAlexanderFund.com. This family thought that they were really close to being done out there. And it is far from over. So any supporters for the Alexander family go to TravisAlexanderfund.com and help this family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, what a day -- everybody, everybody here in shock. I mean when this happened after all this time no ultimate resolution. And we could have it all again, at least some of it. Oh gosh.