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The Love of Travis`s Life?
Aired May 24, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, one woman, Jodi Arias and her impact on many families. Lives changed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our minds are permanently stained with the images of our poor brother`s throat slit from ear to ear.
PINSKY: Lives strained. A life ended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, I won`t ever get the answers to most of my questions about my brother`s death. Questions leak how much did he suffer? How much did he scream?
PINSKY: Jodi Arias destroyed more than just her own future when she murdered Travis Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When it`s over, it`s really, I think going to hit them, you know, the full reality of what`s happened.
PINSKY: Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
I`m joined by my co-host, attorney and Sirius XM radio host, Jenny Hutt.
And, Jenny, we have got the only interview with a member of the Jodi Arias jury. And we will speak to a number of people who knew Jodi well, some of whom knew Jodi as well.
But first, Jodi Arias. She`s had her say. Tonight, we will hear from her victims.
I know. It`s just painful stuff. There are many more than one. As I said before, Steven, during his -- during his testimony before the jury said how he has PTSD symptoms. It affects his marriage. It`s going to affect his children. It`s going to affect their marriages.
Jodi Arias has affected multiple generations with her actions. Now, many of you who have lost loved ones to violence know what I`m talking about.
Jenny, I don`t feel like I can speak to that properly, I`ve never -- but it`s certainly those people who have lost someone feel extremely passionately about this case.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: I think we all feel extremely passionate about this case, Dr. Drew. I think something in it touches each one of us. So, I`ve not experienced a loss that was due to violence. But loss is just horrible regardless.
And I think Jodi specifically hits everybody on some level. Women, we feel like, I felt crazy about a guy, but then I go but I would never do what Jodi did.
HUTT: So, like -- it`s maddening. She`s maddening.
PINSKY: Right. Her arrogance, her manipulation, her lying.
PINSKY: And, by the way, people who have survived domestic violence feel put off by her because they didn`t do the kind of horrible heinous acts that she clearly did.
Deanna Reid had a --
HUTT: She was not abused.
PINSKY: I know. That`s another problem. She also wasn`t abused. But be that as it may.
Deanna Reid, she had a long and serious relationship with Travis Alexander. She may have known him better than anyone. Watch this.
PINSKY: Deanna, thank you so much for being here with us and sharing also some really lovely photographs. We`ll be playing them alongside of our discussion here.
Now -- you guys look so happy together. It looks heart breaking to look at you guys in these photos. I am so sorry you had to go through this.
Let me just -- let me just -- I have to speak to you from my heart, my dear. You know, I`ve read that Travis did a lot -- he trusted you with so much. I mean, I feel like he really, you were really a part of him. I feel like Chris Hughes and you really -- and Sky also, really knew this man.
And then you had to get through this mudslinging in the court where they really just, I mean, we played some easy stuff here. You were made to feel terrible.
How do you feel now? Where you at? How do you process all this? Where are you?
DEANNA REID, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: I`m doing good. I feel good about getting on the stand, and standing up for Travis. And just telling it like it is, and telling the truth about him.
So I`m glad that I was able to do it. I knew it was an important thing for me to do. And so I`m glad that I had the chance to.
And I knew that they would say something that was, you know, inappropriate, like I kind of, I knew what was coming. So I was ready for it.
PINSKY: Oh, good. I`m glad they didn`t hurt you. But you`ve been sort of hurt enough by Jodi. And now, Travis used to say that whoever married him would have to be used to you being around. You`re going to be in his life forever.
And yet, you know, he really -- you connected to him. You`re a reflection of him.
Where did Jodi come from? What are your thoughts on that? You two couldn`t be more different.
REID: You know, I don`t know. I think it was just one of those things where she was throwing herself at him. And he liked the attention. And that`s -- you know, that`s where it came from.
PINSKY: I understand you had kind of an interesting experience with Jodi where you went to -- he asked you to check up on the dog or something and you went in there and lo and behold there`s Jodi in his house.
Can you tell us that story?
REID: Yes. Yes, I had come, I lived about an hour away from Travis at the time. And he just asked me, please go check on Napoleon, because, you know, my roommates are in and out. They`re not really watching him. I just want to make sure that he has food and that he`s OK.
And so, I gladly went. I loved that dog. So I went to check up on him. And when I did, I -- there was no cars there. It looked like nobody was home.
And I used my key to get in the house. And I came in, and I smelled that there were cookies baking. And I thought that was kind of odd. And then I walked in and as I get towards the kitchen and the living room, I see Jodi. She`s sitting on the couch with Travis` laptop.
And she comes up when she sees me. She gets up right away. And there`s some cookies in the oven. And there`s a tray of cookies on the counter.
And she grabs the tray, and she comes over to me and she say, like total Stepford wife is what it`s like. And she comes up --
PINSKY: Like a robot.
REID: -- do you want a cookie?
Yes, completely like that.
And so, she offers me a cookie. And I was just -- at this point I kind of knew about what was going on with the slashing tires. I didn`t know for sure it was her. I didn`t want to believe that it was.
But I knew some stuff, some stalking behaviors were going on.
PINSKY: And there she is.
REID: And so --
PINSKY: And there she is in his house. She`s broken into his house. And you knew she wasn`t supposed to be there.
I want to interrupt for just a second and get my panel a chance to ask you question. They`ve all been very anxious to speak with you.
Jenny Hutt, I`m going to start with you. Jenny, what would you like to ask?
HUTT: I wanted to ask, do you think that all the ridiculous -- first of all, I`m sorry about how you were treated on the stand. I was so fired up and so angry about it. So, I`m sorry that you were put through that. I`m sorry about Travis.
But do you feel that all the talk about sex and the since tape has really taken away from what really matters in this trial, which is the fact that Jodi is a disgusting, ravaging, crazo murderer, that she murdered Travis?
REID: Yes. Yes, absolutely. That`s not what this trial is about. It`s about my friend being murdered.
PINSKY: Yes, right. Mark?
REID: And I hate that they keep bringing up all these other aspects of what happened.
PINSKY: Mark, you`ve been saying that from the beginning.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Yes. I`m only smiling because Jenny always holds back how she truly feels. Let it out, Jen.
EIGLARSH: Actually, Deanna -- Deanna, I wanted to ask you. First of all, I admired you while you were testifying. I mean, you were being asked some very detailed questions about your sex life. And I`m wondering what you kept telling yourself so that you wouldn`t react.
Now, I want to know where you got that lack of reaction which actually made you a lot more credible, at least here in the court of public opinion.
REID: Well, I knew that I had to be that way. I knew that the defense wanted me to react. That`s what -- that`s what Jodi wanted. She wanted to embarrass me. She wanted me to be humiliated. So I kept telling myself I`m not going to give her what she wants.
And I`m going to stand up for myself and I`m just going to tell it like it is. And it`s the truth. And so I just, I did it. I told the truth. And I`m OK with it.
PINSKY: Christi, I want to give you the last word here. Go ahead.
CHRISTI PAUL, HLN ANCHOR: You know, we`re seeing the pictures of the dog. And as I understand it, he left the dog to you in his will. And Jodi -- that was even a point of contention for her, wasn`t it?
REID: Yes. Yes. People were saying, I remember soon after Travis died, that people were saying that Jodi was trying to tell, tell people around and see what was happening with Napoleon, because she was saying that Travis wanted her to have Napoleon if he ever died.
And so, that was -- you know, false, obviously. And he had left Napoleon to me in his will. And had, he had left me his library, what he called it. He just had so many books.
And he, I remember, because of prepaid, he had to get a will done. Well, he didn`t have to, but it was just one of those things that they promote doing is doing your will. And that`s something that comes with that membership that he was selling.
And so when he did the will, he called me afterwards, and he told me I did my will, and I`m giving Napoleon to you. And I`m giving you my library. And everything else, just all my material things and my house, that`s all going to my grandma.
PINSKY: Seems like you still get emotional.
REID: Those are the things that are important to me.
PINSKY: You still get emotional when --
REID: Yes. That`s one of the conversations that I really remember having with him. Because I, it`s hard for me to remember everything and go back and think about things, but that`s one of those conversations that I really remember, because he said specifically like I trust you. I know you`ll take care of the things that are important to me.
PINSKY: She is a delight, and it`s so hard to see her suffering there as many have because of Jodi and the way this case has drawn out.
Next, we have more of our exclusive with Deanna Reid, the woman who may have known Travis better than anyone.
And later, one of Travis` many friends took some extraordinary video of Jodi and Travis together. We will talk to him and about what he observed in the couple`s relationship, after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Would he ever, in any of those disagreements, would he ever curse at you?
REID: No. Never.
MARTINEZ: Would he ever call you names?
REID: No, he did not.
MARTINEZ: And during any of those time, did he ever strike you or physically advance on you or inflict any physical violence on you? No, never.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back. I`m joined by my co-host, Jenny Hutt.
Now, Jodi painted a horrible picture of Travis, no one that knew him had ever witnessed. Unfortunately, they all had to witness him getting dragged through the mud, Jenny.
HUTT: It`s so sad, especially watching someone like Deanna Reid. They were best friends. They had a relationship and maintained a very close friendship. Had he been abusive, do you think she would have remained and been his best friend thereafter?
PINSKY: Again, five years to come up with somebody that corroborated Jodi`s claims that this is an abusive guy. Nobody steps up. In fact, quite the contrary. You get people like Deanna.
And, of course, Deanna had a relationship with Travis. She took the stand and at the stand she told jurors and the world that her former boyfriend was, in fact, a standup guy.
PINSKY: And, Deanna, I want to take you back to the issue with the will. I mean, that speaks so loud to me about how Travis feels about you. There`s the cute dog and you with him.
This dog he loved, he trusted but the dog. His books he loved. He trusted you with the books.
Jodi took this man --
REID: Yes. We trusted each other.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Deanna. And Jodi took this man away from you.
REID: We trusted each other.
PINSKY: Yes. And Jodi took this man away.
PINSKY: What -- I`m almost at a loss of words. I mean, how do you -- how do you not want to wring her neck yourself?
REID: I do. I just -- I can`t understand why she would do this. I just, I can`t wrap my head around it, like I don`t know what would have made her get to that point of doing that? Why couldn`t she have just moved on with her life? Like it wouldn`t have been so easy for her to just move on.
It just -- it hurts. It hurts me that, that she did -- obviously, that she did that. But that it`s just, the way she did it, just everything about it, I don`t -- it`s so confusing to me and hard for me to understand. And that`s part of the hurt is the just trying to figure out why, when there really isn`t an explanation. And I`ll never, never get an answer to why.
PINSKY: Jenny Hutt, go ahead.
HUTT: Yes. Well, number one, I wanted to speak to what Dr. Drew was saying before about his giving you his stuff in his will. I think Travis loved you. I think that was real.
HUTT: That was love.
HUTT: And I wonder if you think, Deanna, if you think things had not turned out this way, if there had not been this, a homicidal maniac named Jodi, that there might have been a future with Travis, even though you guys were apart?
REID: For us, romantically, no. And I know that now. And I knew at the time when we broke up, like it was, it was over for us in that sense.
We were still friends. We were friends before we started dating. And we remained friends after, too.
And I loved him. He was an important part of my every day life.
And one of the things, too, they bring up his childhood a lot. And how the way he was raised that caused issues and made him abusive towards Jodi. And that`s not true.
He did have some issues from his childhood growing up, but those issues were issues of commitment, and allowing someone to love him. So I think that that really was the issue that he had and not being abusive. He didn`t -- he didn`t get that from his upbringing. What he got was the issues with commitment and being able to feel, maybe, like he deserved love from someone.
PINSKY: And that fits. And that really fits with his history.
Christi, I wonder if we should ask Deanna question you asked last night about what she thinks he would want.
PAUL: Yes. I mean, -- well, there were two things I wanted to ask. One was, how did you prepare yourself to be in the same room with Jodi? Because that had to be so hard to sit on the stand knowing she was sitting there scrutinizing everything you said.
And two, you know, we`ve heard so much from Chris and Sky talking about what a compassionate man he was and how he didn`t want -- he fought so hard not to hurt her. How do you think he would feel right now? What would you think -- what do you think he would want to happen to her? Now?
REID: That`s another thing that makes me so sad is that he was. He was compassionate. He always gave people the benefit of the doubt. He didn`t want to believe that there was so much evil in someone that they could do this.
And I know that he wanted to -- he wanted to help her. I know that he would have wanted to, you know, just, just not be, not be that person who she`s trying to say that he is.
And, as far as what we would want to happen to her now, I`m not sure - - all that I know is that if this had happened to one of his friends, if Jodi had killed a friend of his, he would have wanted her to have the death penalty.
PINSKY: OK. That speaks volumes. And I really do feel like you know this man. So, we will assume that will be Travis` point of view.
Mark, go ahead. What do you got for Deanna?
EIGLARSH: You know, Deanna, the more I get to know you, the more I see how opposite you are from Jodi.
EIGLARSH: My question is, what was it about Travis that caused him not to want to embrace the warning signs when Chris and Sky say, "Look, you`ve got to stay away from this girl. She is not what you think." He resisted it. What is it about his character that caused him to want to stay with her? What do you think?
REID: It`s like I was saying before, like he liked -- he wanted to give people the benefit of the doubt. He wanted to see the good in people. And so, he would -- he would ignore those bad things and just look at the good things.
Plus, she was giving him tons of attention, and I think that he liked that and that he liked the attention that he was getting from her. So, I think that`s part of the reason why he stayed with her.
PINSKY: And Deanna, I think you`re zeroing in on his ability to commit and receive love as really a key thing here. When people have been traumatized like he was, they confuse intensity for love. They confuse sex for love. They, sort of, gap through their difficulty accepting love with physicality and things. And that`s exactly what she took advantage of.
PINSKY: Well, Deanna, I just want to thank you from all -- go ahead. I`ll give you the last word here and I want to thank you for joining us. But go right ahead, what would you like to say, finishing up here?
REID: Just on that note, it just makes me, again, it just breaks my heart, because I think that eventually, he would have got to that point. I think that he would have been able to find love and get married and have a family, but she took that away from him.
PINSKY: She took everything away from him, Deanna. And I think with friends like you in his life, I think there`s no doubt he would have gotten there.
PINSKY: Jenny, it`s so interesting going back to that part of the trial where Travis was being just raked over the coals, and all we found were people that loved him who were extraordinary themselves.
HUTT: Yes. She breaks my heart. I watch her, and I just feel so much for that woman that I just -- oh, as a girl, Dr. Drew, I just look at her and I`m sure it`s projecting, but I imagine what she must be feeling. And it`s just awful and incredibly sad.
PINSKY: Her feelings have, are very easy to identify and very easy to be empathized with.
Next up, we got one of Travis Alexander`s many friends who took some extraordinary video of Jodi and Travis together. We will talk to him about the couple`s relationship.
Later, a juror in the case reveals his feelings about Jodi. Do other jurors feel the same?
Don`t go away. We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, VICTIM: So I got a gun against my temple and he keeps doing this with his gun. And she`s over here so I`m looking in my peripheral, because I don`t want to turn this way, and I`m like shut up, shut up, shut up! And I got this gun against my head. And all he needs to do is squeeze, you know. So, I`m like this woman is going to get killed and I`m like looking at her with all the despair I can muster up in my retina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jodi Arias made an impression on a number of Travis` friends before she killed him. They were afraid of her. Unfortunately, Jenny, he did not listen to them. You wish he could (INAUDIBLE).
HUTT: Yes, I think that`s what happens with guys. They start to think with different parts of their body and they`re unable --
PINSKY: Yes, but let me just say, the same woman that`s accusing him of being abusive is the man that actually defended her to his friends, so much that he couldn`t see who she actually really was.
HUTT: I know, but she had this power. This is part of the awfulness of Jodi Arias. She took all of her power and used it for evil.
PINSKY: That`s right. She used it. That was her method of domestic violence, interpersonal terrorism. It was sex.
Jacob Mefford testified in the trial, like many of Travis` friends, he was not a fan of Jodi Arias. His wife Hollie was not either. They took some compelling video of Travis and Jodi together. I asked him if the Jodi we saw in court differed from the Jodi in this video.
Take a look.
JACOB MEFFORD, KNOWS JODI, KNEW TRAVIS: She`s completely disconnected. I mean, as you can tell in the video, you know, we were all captivated by what was going on and what he was saying, and she`s completely apathetic. You know, she`s completely disconnected.
She`s not the center of attention in this moment. You can even see when she, you know, raises up. She`s like, basically, like let`s go to -- let`s go to bed, let`s get out of here. You know, she pulls her arm off of -- his arm off of her nonchalantly like it`s no big deal.
It`s just that`s Jodi. Once again, just not connected, not -- doesn`t care about anybody else but herself.
HUTT: But there`s also just so much PDA. I feel like if I were somewhere in a group with my husband I wouldn`t be lying all over him --
PINSKY: Well, and Jodi on the stand has been saying how he wouldn`t let anyone see them together and they weren`t --
PINSKY: -- they would never display affection in public.
And that`s not the case, Jacob, from your standpoint, is that right?
J. MEFFORD: Oh, absolutely not. He was very respectful.
PINSKY: Yes. All right. Let`s take another look now at another piece of the clip from Jacob`s video. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER: There he is. Get the F on the ground. You know. And I`m like oh, snap, it`s over. He put me down on my knees and was asking for the phone. And he said I had like five seconds to distribute the wad.
I`m seeing myself face down, blood, full of blood. And I`m like this is death. This is death.
They say that your life flashes before your eyes. Well, I can`t say that. But it`s amazing how many thoughts that you can distribute -- I mean, get out of your mind in a few seconds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Again, it`s just so spooky and sad to know what happened to poor Travis.
Jacob, now, first of all, you want to know from the control room, can people see that video online somewhere at HLNTV?
Yes, please go to HLNTV.com. You can watch -- will they be able to see the entirety? OK.
The entirety is available for you guys online, HLNTV.com. Please go there.
Because, Jacob, he was discussing a crime scene where he nearly got killed.
And it seems -- you can get a better sense of the story here if you watch the whole thing online. But it seems like Jodi listening to him tell a story about a near-death experience, he`s talking about his life flashing before his eyes. She could not give a damn. She couldn`t care less.
Is that what I`m seeing here?
J. MEFFORD: Yes, absolutely. That`s what makes it so crazy. I mean, you know, obviously, we didn`t know what was going to happen to Travis.
So why were we even recording it?
Well, because it was a crazy story. Once again, it`s a near-death experience in Travis`s life in which, you know, he conquered and came through. And really, my wife felt the need to capture it. We don`t know why. I mean, now maybe it`s -- there`s a reason that maybe shed the light on the world of what`s going on.
But yes, she could care less. That`s definitely Jodi.
PINSKY: And, Hollie, how long before Travis`s death was this video taken?
HOLLIE MEFFORD, KNOWS JODI, KNEW TRAVIS: This would have been a year and a half earlier prior to his death.
PINSKY: Eighteen months.
H. MEFFORD: Yes, about 18 months.
PINSKY: And, Hollie, last night you said something rather striking. You said if you had a boyfriend or husband, you did not want the woman in the video alongside of me here around your husband or boyfriend.
H. MEFFORD: Right.
PINSKY: Tell me about that.
H. MEFFORD: She was just one of those women that you knew -- or at least I knew that she would use whatever manipulation she could to get what she wanted out of someone.
HUTT: Almost unrelenting?
H. MEFFORD: Yes. Absolutely.
And very cunning, very calculated. She knew exactly what she was doing in every conversation, every interaction, even to the smallest -- even in this video. She`s calculated in what she`s doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I do think, Dr. Drew, maybe you`ll agree with me, that women can sense this in other women. And maybe that`s the hope of the jury, that the women on the jury will be able to sense this about her.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: I hope so, because she`s showing us a different -- she`s so manipulative. She`s showing us a different face on the stand there. Now, Holly, when you see that video and you think back to that day, I guess, this isn`t a fair question -- I was going to ask you, did you imagine she was somebody capable of killing?
HOLLIE MEFFORD: I knew from the moment I met her that she was someone that was capable of doing something that I didn`t like. I didn`t think it would be this.
PINSKY: Hollie, you say things sometimes actually give me chills. That kind of gives please the willies when you say that, because that`s so (INAUDIBLE) at what happened here, I mean, to say this woman was capable of almost anything. I didn`t really expect a slaughter, which we`ve got.
HOLLIE MEFFORD: No.
PINSKY: But this is a dangerous person. And that -- feel so bad for Travis and his family. Jacob, I have. He talks in this video about how he responded to someone having a gun held to his head. He becomes frozen. Do you imagine that is how he responded to Jodi, herself?
JACOB MEFFORD, KNEW TRAVIS, KNOWS JODI: Oh, I think he was absolutely in a panic. I mean, Travis is not a fighter. He`s a lover. He`s not somebody that is a physically violent person at all. So, I could only imagine, you know, how scared he was. And I think she totally guerilla warfare, sucker punch, took him by surprise, and you know, it was over before he even knew it began. So --
PINSKY: Hollie, I feel like your -- what are you feeling? I feel like you`ve got more to tell us. What do you feel in there?
HOLLIE MEFFORD: I`ve thought of that often what maybe his last thoughts were. And I`m sure he was so scared. And I always feel like he was shocked like this person that he didn`t think that she had it in him. When I told him, "Travis, I don`t think that Jodi is good person. I don`t think that she`s the person that you should be with."
He said, "you know what, you`ve got it wrong. She wouldn`t hurt a fly. She`s a great person."
PINSKY: Can you imagine?
HOLLIE MEFFORD: And I feel like those last moments he realized -- you know he knew before, but he realized in those last moments that she was really capable of what his friends and maybe deep down he thought she was capable of doing.
PINSKY: More of the Jodi carnage. Can you imagine what Hollie feels like having really attempted to reach Travis, but no.
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: It`s just so sad. And I keep going back to the same thing. How many people have come out to talk about what a great guy Travis was. And there`s not a single person, Dr. Drew, it seems not one who has come to say that Jodi, we`re not getting who she really is. Nobody has stood up for her. And the reason why, of course, Dr. Drew, is because she`s awful.
PINSKY: Right. And it`s interesting we speculated about the females on the jury, perhaps, seeing through Jodi`s veneer, but it doesn`t seem like and we`re hearing now the jury split eight to four, eight for death, four not able to do so, I guess, for life was they were going for and unable to move their opinions at all. Do you think --
PINSKY: Yes. Do you think -- we`ll find out who those eight were, I guess, as time goes along here.
All right. Next up, only one person truly knows what it`s like to be a juror in the case and can talk about it. He speaks to us exclusively.
And later, the Alexander Family has suffered for years with this thing. Will they be able to put the tragedy behind them? A friend is here to tell us. Back after this.
PINSKY: I`m joined by my co-host, Jenny Hutt. So, what was it like to be on the Jodi Arias jury? Did jurors like Jodi? Did they have sympathy for her? We had the chance to speak to Dan Gibb. He was on the jury. He was juror number eight, no longer on the panel. He was free to speak to us about the experience exclusively to us. I asked him why he came back to court after he had been dismissed.
DAN GIBB, JUROR #8: I felt like I had to, you know, kind of see it through as much as i could.
PINSKY: I can imagine. I understand you were just diligently involved with this. And people would just love to hear your thoughts. Let me just start with some basic questions, like, did Jodi spend too much time on the stand? Did you buy her testimony?
GIBB: Yes and no.
PINSKY: Tell me more.
GIBB: She spent too much time on the stand. And I, you know, I understand, you know, probably the defense`s strategy was for us to, you know, get to know Jodi personally and in order to be that much difficult to find her guilty and potentially put her to death, but, you know, they did that early, obviously, in the trial.
And I think, I think it lost some of its effect over time, as we, you know, heard other testimony from other witnesses. So, I do think she spent too much time up on the stand. And I, personally, you know, I, I tried my best to keep an open mind as long as I could. And I feel that I did that, but --
PINSKY: Did you, like many of us, have real difficulty believing anything she said?
GIBB: Some of the things were believable, but, but not many. You know, you know, as time went on, it became apparent that more and more of what she was saying was just, was just too far out there, was just too unbelievable.
PINSKY: How about the witnesses? Were there any witnesses -- what was your least favorite witness that the defense put on?
GIBB: Well, I wasn`t really impressed with Dr. Samuels. I know the gentleman`s got a lot of years of experience and all that, but it was just, he was kind of all over the place. He, he made too many, too many errors. He --
PINSKY: He spent an awful lot of time on the fog and the PTSD thing, didn`t he?
GIBB: Yes. You know, the PTSD thing, I think, it seemed like it was -- I don`t know. It seemed like it was just to sidetrack us from the real issue.
PINSKY: You know, Dan, I`m going to give Mark Eiglarsh a chance to ask you a question, because Mark has been very interested in the -- since this whole thing started. Mark, why don`t you ask Dan a question.
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: I have so many question, but I`ll have to pick one for now. I know that your position, I`m sure is I didn`t watch any media reports. And for me to believe that, I need to know how it is, because this thing was everywhere. I mean, if you went to the doctor`s office, it would have been on the TV, if you went into a restaurant, it might have been on the TV.
And you went to work on Friday, I read. How, when people are watching media reports, did they not say things to you? How were you not influenced?
GIBB: Well, I mean, people would approach me, for instance, a couple of occasions at work. And I would just tell them, hey, you know, I`m not allowed to talk about it. I can`t talk about it. If something did come on TV, I would turn the channel, walk out of the room, you know, it was difficult, because it is all over the place, obviously. You know, it`s, it`s hard to pick up a newspaper and not see it, you know, somewhere on the front page.
PINSKY: I`m proud that we have a system where somebody like Dan can represent, you know, he`s, his integrity and he takes it very seriously. Maybe I`ve lost faith in jury systems, but I`m suddenly, today, getting a renewed pride and interest in our system.
DANINE MANETTE, AUTHOR, "ULTIMATE BETRAYAL": I`m impressed already listening to Dan. And I`ve been dying to ask this question because there were so many parts of the trial where we felt like it started become a battle of the egos between prosecution and defense and not necessarily a battle to uncover the evidence.
And I wanted to know, was there any time as a juror where you kind of felt like hey, can you all stop going at it and give us the facts we need so we can make a decision? Or did you just feel like they were both passionate about the cases they needed to present?
GIBB: Well, yes. You know, there was a lot of -- a lot of the testimony that was just way too long and drawn out. And, and it was like, you know, please just get to the point.
PINSKY: Jenny, I still stand by Dan`s integrity and diligence. He was kicked off the jury for whatever reasons, and I would say to anyone who wants to take aim at him, "judge not lest you be judged."
HUTT: Yes. Agree, completely. I thought he did a great job when he was on the jury, and I thought the way he talked about it after was really fair and well thought out.
PINSKY: I agree. It will be interesting as we get more of the jurors` points of view as time goes along. Hopefully, we`ll hear (ph) from some of them. I know they`ve been hiding out recently.
Next up, we`ve got Sky Hughes who knows the Alexanders well. She supported the family throughout the ordeal and speaks with them daily. She will tell us how they`re doing. back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Chris share with you the fact that he told Mr. (INAUDIBLE) that he thought the defense or that the defense was lying or like a snake?
SKY HUGHES, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S FRIEND: I don`t remember if he told me that or not. He just told me that Gus said that he had information that could hurt Jodi or help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. And we`re talking about Jodi Arias and the toxic effect she`s had on so many lives. As I said, Jenny, when I think about poor Steven, Travis` brother, he has PTSD. It`s disrupted his marriage. It`s affected this being (ph) a parent, and of course, the child`s family system. That child will then be scarred by that experience. That will reflect on future generations.
PINSKY: Jodi Arias we have to thank for that.
HUTT: It`s so sad. You`re right. It`s generations -- and tentacles. It`s so many different people in different families that have been affected by this. It`s just incredibly unfortunate.
PINSKY: One person.
HUTT: It`s just awful.
PINSKY: One person.
HUTT: Yes. One person does this much damage.
PINSKY: Now, Sky Hughes knew Travis. She knows Jodi, and she`s been a great comfort to the Alexander Family. She`s been a tremendous source of information for us here on this show. Take a look at this interview.
PINSKY: Sky, I -- by the way, thank you for coming back. It is a pleasure. I understand Deanna sat next to you today in court, and she is just a lovely woman, and we see her deep sorrow at the loss of Travis.
How is the family, particularly, I`m worried about Steve and what I call my Samantha. I`ll tell you about that in a second. How are they doing after their impact statements in court?
HUGHES: You know, I think they`re relieved that they`re finished with that part, but at the same time, I don`t think we heard the extent of how much it is affecting them. I know it`s a lot worse for both of them, for the whole family, and especially for Steven.
You know, the nightmares are way worse than let on. What`s done to his life is a lot -- it`s been a lot bigger of an impact than what he was able to express. And, you know, Travis meant so much to him. And the effect it`s had on him is just -- I mean, it`s awful. It really is.
PINSKY: See, I think --
HUGHES: He did an amazing job.
PINSKY: He did. And I think we did get a feeling for what -- even though he might have wanted to say more. We got the sense of what`s going on there. But Sky, you know, a lot of people have sort of a glib way of looking at there, an unrealistic way of looking, oh, they got it off their chest, they must feel so much better. But to me, you look a little sadder today. And people often when they have these kinds of evocations are worse. And I worry that the family is worse afterwards.
HUGHES: Yes. I mean, it`s becoming more of a reality that is set in. You know, they`ve been able to focus on the trial. And I think by doing that, they`ve kind of set aside and displaced a lot of their pain and a lot of, you know, the tragedy and the awful things that they`ve had to endure. and you know, I think when it`s over, it`s just -- it`s really, I think, going to hit them, you know, the full reality of what`s happened.
But at the same time, it will, it will allow them to be able to begin to heal because they`re not going to have to see her everyday, you know, the person who slaughtered their brother. They`re not going to have to hear the horrible lies.
PINSKY: Oh, sad. And Sky paints the picture so beautifully.
HUTT: Going back to what you said before about how many people Jodi has essentially harmed. We know that Sky has said that she was worried about her kids. That Jodi being around her kids was finally the straw that broke the camel`s back for her. What`s your advice to Sky and Chris Hughes and how to talk to their kids about Jodi Arias and what happened to Travis?
PINSKY: Oh my goodness! You know, it`s not a single conversation, I would say. First, open it up for the children. It depends on what age the kids are, of course. And you know, teach them about staying safe and how you stay safe and trusting instincts, but really, it`s about choices about whom you choose to bring into your life.
And, by the way, listening to the people that love you and care deeply about you. Listening very carefully to them. This is certainly a cautionary tale on that front. Back with more Sky after this.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Sky Hughes and her husband, Chris, knew Travis well, interacted with Jodi on a number of occasions, and have a story to tell. Take a look.
PINSKY: One of the things Travis` family wanted to show the jury during their impact statements, but they didn`t have a chance to was this picture you`re seeing here now, this is Travis Alexander`s casket on the day of his funeral.
It`s deeply moving to see that. Again, the pictures tell such unbelievable stories when you put them all together in this case. Sky, I want to tell you that tonight -- you and I have talked a number of times. And tonight, you`re kind of tearing my heart out a little bit. You seem upset and sad in a way I`ve not seen you before.
HUGHES: Well, I was, you know, watching the devastation of Oklahoma and the kids, and then I was talking to, you know, the members of the family just about things that they`ve gone through and if there`s anything they wanted me to talk about, and it was just -- it`s hard because it`s a lot worse than I thought it was.
PINSKY: How is my Samantha doing?
HUGHES: Your Samantha.
PINSKY: My Samantha.
HUGHES: The crush is reciprocated just so you know. She thinks you`re great and appreciates all that you do. She`s doing good. She`s looking forward to this ending. And again, that`s why it`s so hard with all the postponements. So, you know, she`s looking forward to getting back to her life, to be able to focus on Travis, you know, so --
PINSKY: She`s had to take up the role of glue in that family. I can see it very clearly.
HUGHES: They realize that this is something that will go on forever. But this is also a major milestone in being able to move on. You know, it`s been such a major focus for the last five years.
And they realize, you know, it`s going to linger for a while, but this is a big deal, and this is -- will allow some closure so that they can, you know, begin the healing process and begin to deal with the pain and the hurt that they`ve had.
PINSKY: Jenny, of course, I keen about my Samantha, but our thoughts and prayers are with all of Travis Alexander`s siblings and extended family, but you have something to ask or say?
HUTT: Yes. Listen, it`s exactly Sky said is how I`ve been feeling since the verdict came that it was a hung jury, well, since no verdict in the penalty phase, but how does this family get closure? How does this family move forward when there`s no resolution?
PINSKY: Well, I don`t understand how they get closure if it`s a death -- if they decide death because there`d be appeals and this will go on for long time. I think closure might be putting an end to all of this, put her life in prison and forget it. No?
HUTT: Yes, but Dr. Drew -- well, no -- listen, what I think is, I don`t know what`s going to give them ultimately peace.
HUTT: But I`m talking about the part that now it`s like we have to wait another four months, two months for what`s next and then.
PINSKY: It`s excruciating. And where --
HUTT: We don`t know (ph) a direction.
PINSKY: Well, it`s excruciating with ultimately where it goes is up to them. And we all support them whatever that decision is. We`ve got to take a break. Back after this,
PINSKY: The trial isn`t over. The jury could not agree on either life or death for Jodi Arias. So, a new jury will be empaneled in July. Friends and family, Jenny, will have to be dragged through much of this pain again.
HUTT: Yes. It`s unbelievable, actually. It`s actually unbelievable that this is what happened.
PINSKY: Well, we knew it was one of the three possibilities. It`s either going to be life, death, or hung. And here we are. Hopefully, they will make a determination next time. Thanks, Jenny Hutt. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next time.