Return to Transcripts main page


Pakistan Airline Flight Diverted; Authorities Treating Incident as Criminal Not Terrorism; British Airways Emergency Landing; Jumpy Markets; Market Volatility; Co-Op Capital Concerns; Dollar Down; Sweden Unrest

Aired May 24, 2013 - 14:00   ET


RICHARD QUEST, HOST: Two aviation incidents in London. A passenger plane diverted because of criminal behavior and an emergency landing at Heathrow.

Also, rioting in Sweden stirs up the national debate: inequality and unemployment.

And hold on to your hats and your wallet. A wild week on the markets.

I'm Richard Quest. It may be a Friday, but of course, I still mean business.

Good evening. Tonight, two major incidents at two major London airports. At Stansted, two passengers were arrested on suspicion of endangering an aircraft. The pair were onboard a Pakistan International Airlines flight, diverted to the airport under the supervision of a UK fighter jet.

Pakistan's high commissioner to Britain says an altercation broke out aboard, and there were allegations that threats were made to blow up the plane. UK Air Traffic Control Authorities ordered the flight to be diverted from its original destination, Manchester, in northwestern England.

Meanwhile at Heathrow, there was an emergency landing of a British Airways A319, which forced the closure of both runways and delayed dozens of flights. Now, this video shot inside shows the plane as it landed and the passengers evacuating the aircraft from the emergency slides.

It was BA 762 en route to Oslo when it was forced back because of what BA describes as a technical fault. Awaiting for details on what that fault is. And while -- what it may have been caused by.

Now, we'll talk about the BA issue in a moment. First, though, let's begin with the Stansted incident. Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is at the airport. He joins me now, live. OK, Nic, now, was this or was this not a terror incident? What do we know?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're being told that it's not. We're being told by the police here that they're treating this as a criminal investigation.

The two men, they took off the aircraft and arrested on suspicion of endangerment of the aircraft. They're both British nationals, they say. One is 30 years old, one is 41 years old, 287 people on the aircraft, all taken off safely, no injuries. And passengers onboard the aircraft report a lot of police -- armed police -- around the aircraft.

And what Essex Police, who are now in charge of the investigation here say, is that they will lead a full and thorough forensic investigation of the aircraft by specialist officers before they aircraft can go on its way, and that may be a matter of hours before the passengers can then continue on to where they were going originally, which was Manchester. Richard?

QUEST: So, an altercation, and it sounds like it was rather unpleasant because it was late in the flight. But even so, Nic, the measures taken -- scrambling a jet, this parking the plane away from the terminal, all this -- does it look like extreme measures? You've seen this before at Stansted.

ROBERTSON: Some people might call it an abundance of caution. The air stewardess was threatened by these two people during the altercation that they would blow up the aircraft. She contacted the pilot, the pilot contacted Air Traffic Control in Britain. They contacted the authorities. The fighter aircraft was scrambled. It was re-directed -- the aircraft was re-directed here to Stansted.

Stansted is the place that hijacked aircraft are brought to in Britain. About 13 years ago, an Afghan Airline aircraft, hijacked, landed here at Stansted. A four-day standoff before the hostage-takers -- the hijackers, if you will -- allowed anyone off the aircraft.

That's why it was brought here, because the police are trained for it, they're ready for it. And here, they moved in very quickly. So, the indication that although this was a threat to blow up the aircraft, it didn't seem that these men were armed or dangerous or in control of the aircraft in any way -- QUEST: Right.

ROBERTSON: -- such that there would be a long standoff, Richard.

QUEST: Nic Robertson at Stansted Airport this evening. Philip Baum is the editor of "Aviation Security International." He's with me now. Now, what do you make of it all?

PHILIP BAUM, EDITOR, "AVIATION SECURITY INTERNATIONAL": Well, certainly at this stage, it's all looking as if it wasn't quite as serious as perhaps the authorities deemed right at the beginning.

QUEST: But what would it take to launch this sort of scrambling of the response unit, the air response unit, parking the plane, sending it Stansted. What would it take? What sort of threat?

BAUM: Well, first of all, actually fighter jets are scrambled on a regular basis around the -- in the skies of the world. Almost every single day, there is an incident. Usually, it's the loss of communication with the aircraft. A bomb threat which, unfortunately, airlines suffer every single day.

A serious disruptive passenger incident, which indeed this might have been, which when it's feed through to the authorities, they do err on the side of caution. We all fly, and I think we would rather that the authorities do err on the side of caution.

Parking at remote location at Stansted is not exactly problematic. That's why we divert aircraft to Stansted. The topography of the aircraft -- of the airport -- actually helps the authorities, especially if it is a hijack and they actually have to storm the aircraft.

So, in this incident, it appears that we did err on the side of caution, which is good. The incident did occur quite late into the flight. The decision to diver the aircraft was ten minutes before landing. That is -- normally, when you've got an incident, you want to land quickly.

QUEST: But here's the interesting part. The pictures I saw earlier show one of the alleged suspects being taken off and the being put into a containment suit, a white containment suit, having his hands covered with plastic gloves to protect any evidence or DNA that might be on him.

So, there's still an element of we're not quite sure what we're dealing with here, other than an unruly passenger, who'll be put into handcuffs and whipped off the plane.

BAUM: Well, until we know what we're dealing with, we're going to err on the side of caution. There is a criminal investigation that is going to take place, and I hope and I think most viewers would hope that they -- the authorities would investigate this fully. And they've enabled that to take place.

QUEST: Take the speech of President Obama yesterday on drones and security that he talked about. Now add in Woolwich a couple of days ago. Now add in all these other events that we're seeing. You're -- you look at this all the time. The security forces now are on a higher and heightened state of alert.

BAUM: Absolutely. The fact of the matter is, you had two people that were allegedly making threats onboard the aircraft. We had two people that carried out a bombing in Boston. We had two people that were responsible for an attack in Woolwich.

All the media headlines are talking about copycat attacks. And now, you've got two people that are threatening to blow up an aircraft just before it lands at Manchester Airport.

QUEST: And not just any aircraft. A Pakistan aircraft.

BAUM: A Pakistan aircraft. So, it's going to be taken seriously. That said, unfortunately, as I say, there are bomb threats on a daily basis. There are altercations with cabin crew on a daily basis, and many of those people actually say, you know what, I'm going to blow up your aircraft.

QUEST: Have a good weekend. Stay with -- have a good weekend.

BAUM: You, too.

QUEST: Thanks for joining us. Now, the other incident that we've been talking about this evening: the British Airways plane bound for Oslo that had to make an emergency landing at Heathrow after suffering engine problems.

This is interesting, because the pictures of the plane coming in to land are fairly dramatic. And the underlying story, bearing in mind that BA is simply saying there was a technical incident -- excuse me -- and the AAIB, the investigation authority, aren't saying much at all.

Look at the two pictures, and I want to show you. This is the picture as shot from inside the plane on -- and at the left side, that's the left engine, and this is the one that viewers -- that passengers say, first of all, they heard an explosion or they heard a bang. The cowling flew off, and the next thing you knew, that's what they saw. And this is the picture there.

But this is the picture of the right engine. Now, this picture was taken, of course, as you can see, from the aircraft. That's on the right side of the plane. The importance of this picture is best seen when you look at the video, because the video and the pictures of the aircraft, you can see there, you see the smoke coming out of that right engine.

What went on? We have smoke out of the right, we clearly have a right engine that is badly damaged with the cowling off, and we also have a left engine where the cowling has also been removed, and if reports are believed, this was the one that fell off first.

A loose cowling? A failure to properly put it on? Who knows? The AAIB, the Air Accident Investigation Board, they are the ones that will solve the conundrum of the two engines on the flight to Oslo.

Just ahead on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the recent bull run has skidded to a stop. The question is, is the bull having a break, or is it gone into a coma? On both sides of the Atlantic, I'll ask the chief economist if this is a pause that refreshes.




QUEST: US stocks are down for a third straight session, and that follows a record run-up. We're only off eight points, don't get too excited. But an unexpected rise in April's durable goods orders has some investors wondering about the future of stimulus efforts.

Now, just off a fraction, still over -- comfortably over 15,000. Earlier in the week, the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, said the pace of asset purchases could be cut in the next few meetings. That was his words. And of course, we know that the Fed minutes have got various participants questioning whether that could be as early as June.

In Europe, concerns about the stimulus in the US dragged those shares, and the numbers show for the week Europe's major markets were down about 1 percent, all in a week which saw the DAX touch a new high, and German business confidence rose unexpectedly in May. That's for the first time in three months. Look at the markets for a week, off 1.1 in Paris.

The Fed has driven the recent rally -- you know this as well as I do - - by pumping more than $2 trillion into the markets. On both sides of the Atlantic, we're heading off for a long holiday weekend, London and New York.

Before he puts his shorts on and heads for the bucket and spade, I'm joined by the chief economist of Wells Fargo, John Silvia, who's in Charlotte, North Carolina. I'm sure you have a restful weekend planned, but before you go, sir -- before you go -- help me understand. Fed minutes, Ben Bernanke, Japan falling out of bed. Should I be worried?

JOHN SILVIA, CHIEF ECONOMIST, WELLS FARGO: Well, you should be worried if you paid a higher price recently. If you're speculating on a lot more Fed ease, yes, you'd have to be worried, because I think the market was really surprised when the Fed said, hey, we may be ending all this stimulus a little bit sooner. Certainly sooner than the market expected, Richard.

QUEST: But nobody's expecting the Fed to suddenly stop selling any of the vast inventory of MBS or Treasury stock. We're talking here, as Bernanke says, about slowing down the rate of purchases. Now, I can -- at that point, John, I'm tempted to say we're at a turning point in QE.

SILVIA: Yes. I think in a sense, Richard, the problem being is so many people had extrapolated -- excuse me -- continued Fed ease for a long period of time. I was surprised that the markets sold off as much as it did simply because you're right.

All we're doing is slowing down the degree of easing going forward. We're not actually selling Treasuries or mortgage-backed securities. So, I figured, wow, the market had really over-expected the Fed to be easy for a long period of time.

QUEST: And yet, if you look at the members of the Fed's governing body and you look at their voting structures, most are still bunched for a first increase in rates at around the 2014, going higher thereafter. So, it's not going to happen tomorrow. But here's another question for you, John.

SILVIA: Go ahead.

QUEST: Japan. Japan. We know Japan has been volatile on the back of this QE from the bank and from the new monetary and fiscal stimulus. So, should we expect more volatility from Japan?

SILVIA: Oh, absolutely. Again, they're in a situation where they've printed a lot of money. The currency has come down a lot. That's going to help exports, but if a lot of those exports go to the United States, and the United States is now in a different regime in terms of monetary policy, a little more restrictive, those exports may not sell as well as somebody had expected a month or two ago.

So, that interaction between the two countries is really fascinating when both of them are changing policy at the same time.

QUEST: With this weekend, this long weekend, when you're sitting by the beach or by the pool and you're having a drink and you're paddling in the waters, will you be having a drink of celebration or drowning your sorrows in commiseration and worry? Which will it be?

SILVIA: I will worry, because I think the market has probably gone a little bit too far too fast, not properly discounting what Fed policy's actually going to be. I'm more the worry side on this weekend.

QUEST: Have a good weekend and a safe one, and enjoy it --

SILVIA: Thank you, Richard.

QUEST: -- as you and I will talk more about this Fed business many times in the weeks ahead.

Now, Britain's -- let's just talk about Britain's cooperative bank, which has stopped lending money to new business clients as it's trying to shore up its financial position. The new city watchdog says hoarding capital at the expense of customers is the wrong approach.

Andrew Bailey is the chief exec and head of the PRA. It's the new Prudential Regulatory Authority. Part of the Bank of England, it basically is responsible for the macro-prudential regulation. What a long-winded way of saying regulating the banks.

Before the news of the co-op, I spoke to him, and he told me there are plenty of things lenders can do to raise money, and he is not afraid to let a British bank go bust.


ANDREW BAILEY, CEO, UK PRUDENTIAL REGULATORY AUTHORITY: Our priorities are, first of all, as I say, how do we make the whole system safer and sounder. Now, that's not just about what I might call sort of capital and liquidity.

A very big part of it is also -- one of the things I say is, we're not about preventing all firms from failing. And that brings us directly to the question of resolution and how we deal with failing, in this case, particularly banks. But by the way, the same would be true of insurers, but let's break some banks.

And obviously, one of the very big and difficult lessons of the crisis which, if you like, is the too-big-to-fail, too-important-to-fail problem. And the fact that public money has to be used in that event to prevent the unacceptable consequences of failure.

QUEST: Do you believe there should never be too big too fail?

BAILEY: Yes, I do. I do believe that we can't have institutions the failure of which it's not possible to deal with without resorting to using the public's money.

QUEST: Are you prepared to be bloody-minded about it?

BAILEY: We're very blunt. I make no secret of the fact that our job is to give direct messages, not to dress them up.

QUEST: I was at a London Business School summit. The view there was that UK banks need more capital. I think most people accept that. You would accept it.


QUEST: What's the route of which they should get it, do you prefer?

BAILEY: Now, look. We've been very clear wearing our sort of new hat, which has in it a very strong emphasis on preserving not only the supply of critical financial services by banks, but one of which is lending. So, what we do not want the route to more capital to be is to cut back on lending into the real economy, credit creation. That is not desirable.

But there are a number of other things that banks can do, one of which is raising equity. Another of which is reducing the size of balance sheets in other areas. There are other areas in terms of restructuring balance sheets, selling off things that are no longer what I might call sort of core to the business. There's a whole series of things that banks are doing.

QUEST: But need to move faster to do and to succeed.

BAILEY: Well, the way I look at it is this: we are seeking through the policy actions we are taking and -- with -- and banks are responding, to essentially clear up what I would call the legacy issues.

And we highlighted a number of those. Asset valuations, where there is still uncertainties. Conduct costs, where there are uncertainties around sort of conducts of business costs still to come through.

QUEST: Scandals.

BAILEY: Well, you call it scandals.


QUEST: Of course, that's just --

BAILEY: I know it. But it is a very sad fact that one of the things that has prevented the banking system building capital at the rate that it -- that it would have expected to do so is that it is having, quite rightly, to pay out for misdeeds of the past. But that's a fact. It has to -- that has to happen.

Those legacy issues have to be dealt with, and more capital is the most obvious means by which they have to be dealt with, yes.


QUEST: That's Andrew Bailey, the head of Britain's PRA on banks going bust. Now, tonight's Currency Conundrum. Australia's first bank note has been sold at auction with a serial number M000001.

Now, the bank note was issued 100 years ago, but what currency does the Australian first bank note call itself? The dollar, as now? The shilling, as it was? The pound, as it might be? I'll have the answer for you later in the program.

Now for the rates. The dollar is down against the yen and the pound, flat against the euro. Those are the rates --


QUEST: -- this is the break.


QUEST: Five nights of rioting in the suburbs of Stockholm has pushed police to call for reinforcements.




QUEST: Disturbing scenes as gangs set fire to a police station, two schools, and 30 cars in Thursday's unrest. They also attacked police and firefighters with rocks. Tension has been high since officers shot and killed a 69-year-old man who was wielding a machete. A total of 29 people have been arrested during the violence, and Sweden's prime ministers appealing for calm.


FREDERIK REINFELDT, PRIME MINISTER OF SWEDEN (through translator): We have to show that we won't allow a group of young men who believe in the use of violence to run society. They think they can change things by using violence, and that they can do what they want.

But in Sweden, we have democratically agreed that laws are the same for everyone, and the police have to make sure that is the case.


QUEST: Stockholm suburbs have a large immigrant population. This week's violent unrest has sparked a national debate about social equality. I'm joined here by one of the presenters of Sweden's morning show on TV4, Per Nyberg. Good morning -- good evening to you.


QUEST: You're on the mornings. Per, what's this about? What's really behind this violence?

NYBERG: Well, if you listen to the Swedish prime minister, Frederik Reinfeldt, who you also know, he's saying this is about young kids who are just taking the law in their own hands, they're going out in the streets, creating this violence, throwing these rocks at police because they just need some way of expressing themselves.

I just got off the phone with a local politician, and she's saying these are areas, where all this violence has been happening, these are areas that are extremely poor. These young kids have no job, no future. Something called --

QUEST: But in Sweden, are people concerned now about this?

NYBERG: Absolutely.

QUEST: A country that has a social conscience, there must be an air of a bit of angst about it.

NYBERG: Absolutely. Absolutely.

QUEST: Or is it just being regarded, as the riots were in Britain last year, or two years ago, as criminality?

NYBERG: Well, there are similarities. There are absolutely similarities. But what you have to remember is, Sweden is often viewed as a very rich country, prosperous country, that takes care of its population.

But these are young kids, almost half of the kids living in these areas don't have a job, they don't go to school, they don't have what's called "Tek Punta" (ph), a place where they all meet, congregate, and can spend their days. Some say that this is a cry for help, they need some sort of future to look ahead to.

QUEST: So, bearing in mind that Sweden has one of the lowest levels of unemployment in the EU --

NYBERG: Sure, 8.7 percent. However, Richard --

QUEST: Right.

NYBERG: -- remember, OECD came out just a couple of days ago saying the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing faster than in almost any other country.

QUEST: All right, fair point. But -- and the economy is slowing down, and they are going to have to -- and the government is getting to grips with all of this. But it still has a better economic scenario than just about anybody else in the union.

NYBERG: Sure. Sure. But you have to take care of your population as well.

QUEST: So, is this going to continue? Is there a feeling that there is greater legs to this, or does it dissipate in the summer?

NYBERG: The fear is that it is going to continue. Police have now called in reinforcements from other regions. Firefighters are going in, they're tried to put out these fires, something -- I've worked as a fireman myself. I can only imagine going in having rocks thrown at you.

So, police are obviously taking this very seriously. They're going to clamp down on anyone trying to do this in the next couple of days, but whether or not it's going to stop, I just don't know.

QUEST: Per, many thanks. TV4's Per Nyberg joining us on this one.

Ahead on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, more questions than answers as the diverted Pakistan Airlines jet sits on the tarmac of Stansted Airport. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, good evening.


RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. More QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. This is CNN and, on this network, the news always comes first.


QUEST (voice-over): At least three gunmen died following a series of explosions in the Afghan capital of Kabul. One of the blasts was a suicide bomb and it was swiftly followed by a gun battle and more explosions. A female foreign worker was one of the several people seriously injured. The Taliban has claimed responsibilities for the attacks.

The British police are questioning two men arrested on suspicion of endangering a plane. A fighter jet was scrambled to escort the aircraft into landing at London's Stansted Airport.

A Pakistan Airlines flight was carrying almost 300 people from Lahore to Manchester. It's alleged the men made threats to blow up the aircraft. Police say the pair were age 31 and 40. No suspicious items were found on board.

The family of the soldier killed in London on Wednesday have said their hearts have been ripped apart by his murder. Twenty-five-year-old father of one, Lee Rigby, died after being run over and knifed to death on a London street in the south district of Woolwich on Wednesday. His wife and parents said he was a dedicate family man who had served his country.

The Turkish government has approved draft laws to ban the sale of alcohol between 10:00 pm and 6:00 am. The government in the mostly Muslim country says the restrictions will protect children from adopting bad habits. Alcohol advertising will also be banned and labeled, will have to show health warnings. The world's largest alcohol distiller, Diageo, is critical of the plans.



QUEST: Croatia's president is drumming up support ahead of his country's accession to the European Union in July. Ivo Josipovic spent this week in London on a mission to convince the British prime minister, the Queen and the media that the E.U. will benefit from its 28th member. The president told me this is a turning point for his country.

IVO JOSIPOVIC, PRESIDENT, CROATIA: Unfortunately, not only Croatia but some other countries are imperiled by the economical situation. But our European membership is (inaudible) Croatia is a possible tool to make it better.

QUEST: Why? Why? The European Union arguably is part of the problem.

JOSIPOVIC: No, no, we consider the European Union as a chance for us not only because available money in a different fund, but because we can attach investment, because we can sell some of our products around and we are also important traffic corridor. And there we are going to take advantage of it.

QUEST: And in the debate over the future of the union -- because that debate will be happening once you are a member -- will you be more to Mr. Cameron looking for a rebalancing of rights? Or more towards Mr. Hollande and Chancellor Merkel? Because you can't avoid it, Mr. President. You're going to have to come off the fence.

JOSIPOVIC: Definitely. But we are going to create our authentic position. My opinion is that in some aspects, Europe will be stronger, especially in economy, especially in cultural space, but from the other side, probably some administration should be cut because economies (inaudible) procedures.

QUEST: So once you're in the club, once you're a fully paid-up member, will you be looking to bring your neighbors into the club?

JOSIPOVIC: Definitely. It's our strategic goal because of security, because of economy and because of deep cultural and human connections within our countries, in spite of the past war.

QUEST: Which countries?

JOSIPOVIC: All of them, (inaudible) Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, (inaudible) and you are waiting for Turkey, I know. Turkey as well.

QUEST: You believe Turkey should be a member?

JOSIPOVIC: Yes, in principle, yes. And the project already started. I know that some countries are suspicious. There are different reasons. I appreciate all opinions but Turkey and the other country have to fight for a common approach.

QUEST: Mr. President, are we not in danger of a European Union that is too big, too unwieldy, has no commonality of cultural values and ultimately will fall apart?

JOSIPOVIC: No, I'm not afraid about this scenario. Culturally, historically, we are very connected. And when they meet the standards, definitely they have to meet the standards as Croatia did, probably they need five, six, seven -- I don't know how many years -- but they will do it.

And I think it's strategic interest not only of Croatia but Europe itself, because it's incomplete without all those countries.


QUEST: That's the president of Croatia. The country joins the E.U. on roughly July the 1st.

Straight ahead on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, press 1 for tedium, press 2 for confusion and press 9 to lose your temper, automated phone menus and how you can avoid them. That's next.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For all broadband questions, press 1. Or for home phone questions, 2.

QUEST: Absolutely infuriating. Welcome to the world of the automated menu system, all calls recorded for quality assurance purposes, of course. So many options to choose, it's an age before you actually get to speak to the person you want to speak to. The broadcaster Clive James calls it "option swamp." And now there could be a solution.

One man has come up with the answer by posting option shortcuts on a website you can actually manage to circumnavigate the option swamp.

Here we go. So let's try and call this company's online customer service.

And as we wait for it to answer, you'll hear the normal dings and you'll hear all the answers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Thanks for calling (inaudible). (Inaudible) service, we may record and monitor your call.

QUEST: Already recording.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For online shopping, press 1.

QUEST: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For home shopping, press 1. (Inaudible) direct, press 2. Then (inaudible). Thanks.

Did you know that (inaudible) has its own dedicated (inaudible)?

QUEST: No, I didn't, and I don't care. The point is I could have short circuited a lot of this simply by pushing the buttons in advance and quickly. By following this, I can (inaudible) all much quickly. And it all makes it a lot smoother to actually do.

The man responsible for it is an I.T. engineer who simply got sick and tired of these ridiculously large menus. He's made it his life's work to actually improve. It's Nigel Clarke from

Why did you do it?

NIGEL CLARKE, PLEASEPRESSONE.COM: Sheer frustration, absolutely. I mean, I've (inaudible) many, many years and I think, like so many people feel about these phone menus, (inaudible) started logging numbers and shortcuts, and I've built it up and built it up. And then decided why don't I share it with the world and I put it on the Web.

QUEST: But you're not making any money out of it.

CLARKE: Not yet. It's something I've never considered, because the response has been amazing over the last week or so and it's overwhelming. And I think I've really touched a nerve. I wanted to scratch an itch, probably. I've touched the nerve of a nation in terms of the response I've got.

QUEST: Isn't a case where you should ask the companies to pay you to put the information there?


CLARKE: I started to ask them. I'm more than happy. That's what they should do. I can't maintain it. I want them to divide that. It's a free directory service, as far as they're concerned.

QUEST: Right. But you've got two problems. First of all, is the message that you can't avoid that's determined to play no matter how many times you push the button, even if you're know where you're going.

CLARKE: At the introduction, they're normally there, and we flag those out from the website with maybe 23-second introduction you can't press ahead.

QUEST: Right. And then you've got the problem, that dreadful phrase, our options have recently changed.

CLARKE: Yes, we have heard that a lot and actually quite a lot of them haven't. They just want to keep -- make sure you listen to them all carefully because actually they publish on the website. They could -- they could keep them up to date themselves.

QUEST: But why do they do? I mean, I don't have a problem per se with a telephone tree. Why do they do it? Why don't they make it easy? Why do they want us to listen to you can get more information on the website, blah, blah, blah.

CLARKE: You wonder if they're stalling; you wonder if they're making out of the phone call. The good companies actually have some very good best practices maybe. I'm not totally against these menus. I'm against bad design. So if there's three options at the top and maybe three options at the next level, I don't think people mind that.

It's when you get into the five, six, seven levels of menu --


QUEST: What's the worst example you've had?

CLARKE: Actually mostly six. It's four -- press your four buttons, takes six minutes to get through.


Good to see you. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much indeed for going and joining us.

Now if you want to know the weather, push 1. If you want to know whether it's good, push 2. If you really don't care, you just want to have some sunshine, push Jenny Harrison.

JENNY HARRISON, CNN METEOROLOGIST: OK. I'll find you some sunshine. I'll do my best.

Not a bad weekend in profit for you, actually, Richard, but it's not a good picture generally across in Europe. Look at it. (Inaudible) there's more than one area of low pressure. It's been a cool, miserable spring, I don't need to tell you that, of course. You can see it for yourself and of course look at all this rain.

There's an area of low pressure that's been spinning down from the U.K., bringing the rain with it, those low temperatures and in fact, guess what, yet another record about to be made across the U.K.

The Met office here in the U.K. saying Spring 2013 is on track to be the coldest spring since the 1970s. And to give you an idea, not by a huge amount but enough to really make it noticeable. In Wales, for example, it's nearly 2 degrees, so 6.2 has been the average in 2013. So that's 1.8 degrees below the average, Scotland 1.6 below, England 1.7.

And that, in fact, is the coldest since 1962. So not a good picture at all. Now in actual fact, we've got three areas of low pressure which are going to continue to spin throughout the weekend and actually bring it pretty much rain through much of the continent.

And where we have still got some colder air in place across the line of the Alps, it'll actually be more snow across there as well. Now what it will do on the upside is actually also spin in a little bit of milder air. And in fact across Scandinavia right now, we've got 17 degrees in Oslo, only 8 in London, it has to be said.

But it is bringing in a little bit of milder air. But whilst it's doing that, look at this. What has happened in the last few days? Literally since Monday, just to the west of Coruner (ph) in Sweden up there in Lapland, the river, this particular river has actually risen by over a meter. It's flooded quite a few areas because of the rapid spring melt because suddenly it has gone quite mild.

But look at the temperatures over the next few days. They will actually get fairly close to the average as you can see. But it's a very unsettled picture. More of that rain; there is that snow across the Alps, there your weekend Saturday temperatures, 17 in London and 14 in Paris, Richard.

QUEST: Thank you very much, Jenny Harrison, World Weather Center, quick answer to tonight's "Currency Conundrum," I asked what the currency was on Australia's first banknote. The answer, a 10-shilling note, 1913, predecimalization. It's been sold for 3.6 million U.S. dollars. The Australia dollar was introduced in 1966.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this week. Thank you for making time to join us for our nightly conversation on business and economics. I'm Richard Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable.




ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST: Thanks for joining us. I'm Robyn Curnow. Now the story in Somalia's economy has largely been told from outside of its borders. Here in South Africa alone, there are more than 40,000 Somali migrants, perhaps even more.

Now that decades-long trend is slowly changing; peace may be far off, but an economic renaissance has begun, compelling many in Mogadishu to spend; more importantly, also bringing a brave few back to the city they once called home. Here's Nima Elbagir in Mogadishu.


NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sun, sand and a perfect view of the ocean, key ingredients of a beachfront paradise. In hatari here (ph), Bashir Osman (ph) has it all here at the site of his new multimillion-dollar project, a luxury beach resort on the Indian Ocean. He hopes to attract holiday makers from all over the world.

His biggest challenge: the location of his hotel isn't on any list of recommended travel destinations. Instead, it's listed as one of the most dangerous cities to live in, let alone visit. Mogadishu, Somalia. But Bashir (ph) is unperturbed.

(UNKNOWN): (Inaudible) will be in the accommodations.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): His guest bookings, though paltry, are on the rise.

ELBAGIR: I found this really hard to believe, but you told me that you've actually already had tourists. You've had British tourists; you've had American tourists. That's just extraordinary.

OSMAN (PH): (Inaudible) and that -- you know, some of them, they were (inaudible). They came here; some of them, they came with their family to show Somalia, especially Mogadishu.

And really when they went to bed, they were so excited when they saw how some Mogadishus look like, how beautiful a city we have, how beautiful beach we have. And there's the water people who want to show them again and again.

ELBAGIR: A year ago, things weren't as clear as they are now in terms of the optimism and the sense of resurgence in Somalia. And yet you, you took a risk. You bought some land on the seafront. What made you want to do that?

OSMAN (PH): Because I knew when they -- Mogadishus become this and we get the stability, that's why I start to -- I start (inaudible) even now into maybe more (inaudible). When I'm talking about tourist activity, I want to buy a lot of (inaudible). I want to buy all the other cities, they need tourists.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Bashir (ph) is an old hand in the hotel business. He stayed in Somalia throughout its more than two-decade conflict, a risk taker, he opened not one but two hotels. His new projects are part of the construction boom in the city.

ELBAGIR: When you walk around the city, when you drive around the city, it feels like my every other corner a new building's going up.

OSMAN (PH): (Inaudible) Mogadishu, the construction is a very, very (inaudible). And (inaudible) especially the people came back (inaudible) they start to open the new business.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): The city's growing economy is manifested not just in real estate and the hotel sector. Telecommunications is on the rise and the aviation industry is taking off with about 15 daily domestic and international flights. At the seaports, the country's keen national asset, creaking cranes lift goods from the commercial ships and boats lining the harbor.

The wide array of imported construction materials, household goods and food are then loaded into rows of waiting trucks. The customs revenue collected from here has increased exponentially. And while the system is far from perfect, the income is crucial to the newly formed government in rebuilding the city, whose basic infrastructure has been chiseled away by war.

Currently the country's economy is largely supported by aid from donor governments and a relatively peaceful business environment is propped up by African Union security forces. They squeeze the (inaudible) Islamist group Al-Shabaab out of Mogadishu.

But the insurgents still lurk and they periodically launch terror attacks, despite the long list of challenges that face business men in Mogadishu, though, for Bashir (ph), the horizon is bright.

OSMAN (PH): For me, I will see (inaudible) in two years. And the situation I see now, the situation I've never seen before. So the situation now is getting better.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Mogadishu is open for business and for a truly adventurous perhaps a bit of a tour as well -- Nima Elbagir, CNN, Mogadishu.



CURNOW: Welcome back. Now leaving the relative peace and security of the United States, to return to Mogadishu, might be hard for some to believe. But that's exactly what Osman Abdullahi did. Young Somali went home and started an express airline called ODAY. He has two planes that cover six routes across Somalia. And while he says profits are good, he says the potential is even greater.



ELBAGIR: You got in early. You came in 2010 when the landscape was pretty bare in terms of local entrepreneurs setting up businesses here.

OSMAN ABDULLAHI, CEO, ODAY EXPRESS AIRLINES: Yes, it's true. And when I was (inaudible) there's no local flight inside of Somalia. It was even hard to come to Somalia international flight. But as I told you, you have to make a hard decision to start it.

(Inaudible) flights not only me, (inaudible) five flights or six flights (inaudible). So --



ABDULLAHI: A day, because of the (inaudible) I started for the flights, I did that for all those (inaudible). But there are a potential coming from the outside, coming to the inside and then they are doing a lot of flights, which really because the road is not or in the transportation (inaudible), it's not this. So everyone must take the flight. So how can they do that?

They have to try on getting on the airplane. There's not any other ways that they can reach the place they want to go.

ELBAGIR: And now you have six different routes.

ABDULLAHI: Yes, we have six different routes and (inaudible) the next two will be eight. Next two will be eight.

ELBAGIR: And you also play agent for a lot of the international companies that are opening up routes into Somalia.

ABDULLAHI: Yes, there's -- yes, yes. There's a lot of airlines (inaudible) come to this country. And (inaudible).

ELBAGIR: Hub in Somalia?

ABDULLAHI: Hub in Somalia, that's what they're applying for.

ELBAGIR: Let's focus on the practical challenges. What were the practical challenges you faced when you started up a business here?

ABDULLAHI: Yes. The country has been with no government like it went one years. And even the employees of the country, they don't even understand anything. You have to train them; you have to try to teach them what's going on because of even they lost the international connections of all.

If you tell them, do the things, do the things, he's doing something different what you already sent it to that person. So you have to make a lot of training; you have to just and just make it like a customer care.

There's not a lot of customer -- there's no customer care in the country. So you have to try to make the people to do for customer care, to teach them. And I'm their teacher; I'm their boss. I'm their -- I have to be everything.

ELBAGIR: What does the Somali government need to do to make this easier?

ABDULLAHI: You know, the Somali government right now is the -- is almost like a five-months old. It's not even that much old, but they are trying and they are doing a lot of work. Because they start from ground zero. There's nothing before that time.

ELBAGIR: Was it difficult to raise capital for an aviation company in Somalia?

ABDULLAHI: You know, basically, when you want to take a risk, first of all, nobody is not going to help you, the risky place says, OK. I want you (inaudible) nobody's not going to accept it to the investment first time --


ELBAGIR: People here Somalia.

ABDULLAHI: What's going Somalia. When you say I want (inaudible) no, I don't want these (inaudible). I'm sorry. But I try myself and I got a lot of friends who are helping me in from the U.S. or from Europe, (inaudible) I'm starting for the business and I know it's a risk, but I have to do it. Are you guys going to help me or not?

Then they are -- some of them make a decision that they will help you. So my own money and some friends' money, that's what I started for business the first time. And I think the risk when we become successful and we -- that's how --

ELBAGIR: SO your friends actually all gave you small loans towards setting up the business?

ABDULLAHI: Absolutely, yes. That's what was in the first time I start for business. Friends gave it to me, the small things and also you know, in money, that's (inaudible) difference. You have to use your prime.

You have to try how you're going to make the good and the money with the risky area at the same time you have to have some capital. It wasn't even a lot of capital. We try like a very small capital. That's what we started first.

ELBAGIR: But it must have been a huge risk.

ABDULLAHI: Yes, it was 100 percent a huge risk. Everybody, you cannot go to the city in Mogadishu one mile or one mile. You cannot even drive the car (inaudible) in Mogadishu. Right now, you can go corner to corner if you don't have any target. You can go corner to corner.

So I don't think so right now 2010 or 2011 or 2012. It's not the (inaudible) already is gone. It's a different picture today, which is Somalia is.

ELBAGIR: There is a sense that people are eyeing Somalia as potentially somewhere where a lot of money can be made. You have a heavy Turkish presence, a Qatari (ph) government delegation was here quite recently.

What are the challenges if, for the other people looking to come into Somalia, what is your advice about the challenges they're going to face setting up a business here?

ABDULLAHI: All the people are (inaudible). They have to come over here, make a survey and see what's going Somalia. When you see eyewitness what's going on, that time you can make a decision, say it's OK.

You can make a Somalia business or you can make Somalia business. But I will recommend everyone to come and see what's going Somalia. Yes, as I already mentioned, there is a problem but if you make attention only the problem, and don't look at the good side, only you see the bad side, there's only thing in people (inaudible).


CURNOW: Well, that's all from us here in Johannesburg, South Africa. Please go online with But from me, Robyn Curnow, see you again next week.