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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
Classified Documents Released; Report: Three Injured In Santa Monica Shooting; Actress Arrested In Texas Ricin Case; Putin And The Gymnast?
Aired June 7, 2013 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE HARMAN, PRESIDENT, WILSON CENTER: There were abuses after 9/11. The Bush administration early -- early -- from 2002 to 2005 was conducting a program to use phone records but it was outside the law, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
When Congress figured it out and I was one of the people that did, we expressed enormous concern and FISA the law was revised in 2007 with the support of then Senator Obama and many of us and that that revision has been reviewed and extended numerous times and the section we're talking about has been reviewed and extended.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This seems very broad, Congresswoman. It seems very broad, millions of Americans their data being looked at.
HARMAN: Their data is not being looked at. Their data is in a database which can only be looked at if they're Americans, if there's an individualized court order to look at the data, and in the case of phone records people's calls aren't being recorded. Prospectively if there's an individual court order just like in a criminal case as President Obama explained today, then you can listen to somebody's conversation.
But the only reason you would get there is if some foreign connection leads you there. This is a database to help us find whoever the older Tsarnaev might have been talking to in Dagestan, that's the point, and to learn about his plans to harm us before he does that. And it's not going to be used for any other reason and the other program that's been in the news, the e-mail program, doesn't apply to Americans at all as President Obama explained.
TAPPER: Congressman Ellison?
REP. KEITH ELLISON, D-MINNESOTA: Well, you know, the thing is, is that I believe Congress comes back together to review the state of the law all the time. This is an occasion where we should do that. We should come back together and say, look, do we really need to be spreading the net quite this wide. It is rather wide.
It is disturbing to a lot of people and, quite frankly, I worry about not just invasions of privacy, but how many leads are we following where there's just really nothing there? The fact is the Tsarnaev brothers were known to be a problem. There were facts that would lead law enforcement to them. How many people are caught up in this thing who really aren't in that category at all? TAPPER: Go ahead.
HARMAN: I think the program -- I think we should review it, too, I agree with you, Keith. I also think we should review other laws and consider stricter laws around the use of drones, for example, and I'm pleased to see Senators McCain and Feinstein in Guantanamo Bay today talking about whether it can be close. I surely hope it can be close.
But in this case, what I'm saying is that the FISA court, which is federal judges who rotate in and out of there and are highly trained reviews this all the time. And in addition to that Congress is fully briefed, the intelligence committees are fully briefed as they said yesterday and we are being careful.
Should they be careful? Sure, Congress should do oversight and as you said at the beginning or as President Obama said there's no such thing as 100 percent secure or 100 percent liberty, but I think we either get more of both or less of both. It's not a zero-sum game.
TAPPER: Congressman Ellison, are you comfortable with what Congresswoman Harman said, about, look, this data isn't looked at, it's accumulated and then if law enforcement and the national security apparatus needs to go back and look at it, then it's looked at, does that sit well with you? Are you OK with that?
ELLISON: Well, we hope it isn't. I mean, the reality is if it's there, there's at least the potentiality that someone will look into it. You might say they don't have the authority to do so. But if we look at history as a guide, if information is available to be looked into, often it will be. I think this is the time, the occasion to say, we're casting the net too widely.
Now, I'll say this about President Obama's statement. No 100 percent privacy, no 100 percent security. Obviously that's right, but that's why we have to constantly strike the balance. It's a cop-out to say 100 percent, 100 percent this or that, no American thinks we'll have 100 percent privacy or 100 percent security. But we have to strike the balance better and I think it is Congress' duty.
You know, my comments are not -- I'm not throwing a bunch of vitriol at Obama, the executives, Bush, Obama, Clinton, will go to the extent of what the law allows. Congress needs to drill down and I'll just tell you this. Jane is absolutely right, some members of Congress know about this but a lot don't. I mean, if you're not on the intelligence committee, you may not be in the loop at all. I'm not.
TAPPER: All right, we'll just have to leave it there. We'll have both you back to talk about this at a later date, thank you. Have a good weekend to both of you.
Coming up on THE LEAD, we'll bring you more on the breaking news. A school shooting at Santa Monica College, we do know there are injuries and police say they are searching for a second shooter based on witness reports.
Plus an actress is now in custody accused of sending poison to President Obama. We'll update you on the latest in the ricin investigation.
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. We're monitoring breaking news out of California where a school shooting took place at Santa Monica College. Three people have been transported to UCLA Medical Center according to Dale Tate, the hospital spokeswoman. Two of the victims are in critical condition and one person is in serious condition. A witness to the shooting spoke to our affiliate KCAL moments ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, tell me what you saw, what you heard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, I was in the computer lab. I was on Facebook and I saw everyone running back towards the end -- the back of the library and so I went out and saw. An alarm went off. And then immediately I heard a shotgun blast and, like, at least eight probably handgun blasts. What seems to be, it was definitely a handgun. I know, because I hunt. So, it was a shotgun and then, like, at least handgun blasts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see any of the people who were injured?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not. I was in the back of the library. I was too busy rushing to get out of there so --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're glad you're OK. You said you spoke to someone who was closer to the front?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I spoke to someone who actually saw both the shooters. He said one of them had a shotgun and one of them had a handgun so --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is something we haven't had confirmed we should clarify by police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But another witness is telling you that he saw two shooters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That's correct. One was dressed in black overalls with dreadlocks he was white and I don't know about the other one but I know he saw a second one as well.
TAPPER: The California Highway Patrol is now saying that they are looking for a second shooter based on what witnesses are telling them. I want to bring in Officer Vince Ramirez from the California Highway Patrol. He's on the phone with me now. Officer Ramirez, thanks so much for joining us. What can you tell us about the search for a second shooter?
OFFICER VINCE RAMIREZ, CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL (via telephone): Yes, good afternoon, sir. We do have reports and the reports started surfacing after the first suspect was taken into custody that there may be a second active shooter within the campus of Santa Monica City College. Now, we have several units there we're working in conjunction with Santa Monica police, which is the primary agency there.
And then I understand there are units from LAPD and surrounding police agencies that are also assisting with this search. Now, the college is on lockdown. It is considered a crime scene right now. We understand there are still folks around the area. We're asking them to please leave the area so that we can continue the investigation and the search for the possible second shooter within the area there.
TAPPER: Officer Ramirez, we've been told by UCLA Medical Center that three people have been transported to their hospital. Two are in critical condition. One person is in serious condition. Are those the only three victims that you know of or are there others?
RAMIREZ: Sir, I do not have the confirmation on how many people were injured here. All I can tell you is we're getting reports that one or several people were injured. As to the extent of injuries, I don't have that information here just yet.
TAPPER: We're also looking at a live picture on KCAL, KCBS on our screen right now, sir, of what we're told is a case of arson nearby. Do you know if the cases are connected at all?
RAMIREZ: No. We have not gotten confirmation that there's a connection here. I understand there is a fire near the campus there and that's where part of the investigation is being conducted. We have several units there also assisting the Santa Monica police agency with that investigation right now. But, again, we have not put everything together. It's a fluid situation, so we're conducting the investigation, looking for a shooter, and we're asking folks to please stay away from the area if at all possible.
TAPPER: And, sir, there is a suspect in custody in the shooting, is that right?
RAMIREZ: Yes, I have information that there is one person in custody. And that came about, about 15, 20 minutes after we arrived, that there was somebody in custody. But we started getting reports that there was possibly a second shooter within the campus. So, again, that investigation, that search is under way.
TAPPER: I know that you have been on the scene providing law enforcement protection for other shootings. I have covered other shootings. There is almost always a report of a second shooter one way or another. Does this one seem more credible than what is generally standard that there is almost always a report of a second shooter even if there is not one?
RAMIREZ: We operate that way, sir. Anytime that there's an active shooter situation, we always assume that there's somebody else. Until we're satisfied that there is no second shooter or a third shooter then we will not leave the area. We will stay there. We will provide any type of law enforcement assistance as deemed necessary and if there is a second or third shooter, we will find them and bring them into custody as well.
TAPPER: And we understand that the shooting took place just -- or the reports of the shooting were received by law enforcement just before noon Pacific Time. How soon were officers on the scene as far as you know?
RAMIREZ: From our agency, I can tell you, our units arrived within a few minutes of receiving the 911 calls and, again, that's all being investigated. All those logs, all the 911 calls will be handed over to Santa Monica police as part of their investigation. Again, our units arrived pretty quickly after we got the 911 calls.
TAPPER: Officer Vince Ramirez from the California Highway Patrol, thank you so much for joining us. We'll check back with you for this disturbing story out of California.
RAMIREZ: Thank you.
TAPPER: Just when you thought the case could not get any more bizarre there's been an arrest in to the investigation who sent the letters with the lethal poison ricin with President Obama and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. She's an actress who hacks been on television shows such as the "Walking Dead" and "The Vampire Diaries." We'll have much more on that case when we come back.
TAPPER: We have breaking news out of California. The site of that school shooting at Santa Monica College, Santa Monica Police Department watch commander confirms to CNN that there is at least one fatality with respect to the Santa Monica College shooting. It is not yet clear whether or not -- whether this fatality is a victim or a suspect.
Remember, one suspect has been taken from the scene. There are also reports, we don't know if they're confirmed yet, but reports of a second suspect. There are also reports of three individuals who have been taken to UCLA Medical Center. So, that is the latest from the site of the Santa Monica College School shooting and we'll continue to stay on top of that breaking news story.
Even more breaking news, it seems these ricin cases seem to find ways to out weird themselves. breaking news out of California where a school shooting took place at Santa Monica College. Three people have been transported to UCLA Medical Center according to Dale Tate, the hospital spokeswoman. Two of the victims are in critical condition and one person is in serious condition. It might have been easier just to delete his unwatched episodes of "NCIS" from the DVR, but maybe that's me. CNN's Ed Lavandera is live from Dallas with more details on the arrest. Ed, this is all pretty bizarre. And, of course, as bizarre as the case is, we're talking about a very deadly poison.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A deadly poison, a serious situation, but a real life drama in this case. This is Shannon Rogers Richardson that she goes by. She's also known as an actress trying to make her way and goes by the name of Shannon Guess and she's had small parts in TV shows like "The Walking Dead" and "Vampire Diaries."
But now authorities say she is the one that mailed the three ricin letters to Mayor bloomberg, President Obama and the head of a gun control lobbying group. So, this is a very serious situation. From the get-go when we were out at the couple's home last week we had indications that authorities and investigators were very suspicious of her story.
Now if you remember sources back then had told us that it was -- she was the one who had contacted investigators and said that she had suspected that it was her husband who had mailed these letters, that she had found on their computer at home, information about ricin investigation and how to make ricin and had contacted investigators.
Well, now it turns out that the authorities say that she was trying to frame her husband all along in this case, and we just got our hands on the arrest warrant affidavit that goes along with this and said that she had tried to make it look and ensure that her husband would be apprehended in all of this. And to make matters more bizarre in all of this, her husband filed for divorce from her yesterday.
TAPPER: And, Ed, real quickly, there was already one arrest, an Elvis impersonator. He was let go. There was another arrest, a Wayne Newton impersonator, and now there is a third arrest. Ed Lavandera, thank you so much for bringing us the latest information.
Coming up next, he has no problem showing off his physical attributes, is there any surprise that Vladimir Putin has fallen for a fellow athlete?
TAPPER: It's been a busy day. The "Buried Lead," the stories that we think are not getting enough play. Give him time to breathe. He's not looking for honey just yet at least that's what the Kremlin is saying about President Vladimir Putin who announced he is a single man once again. But now we're hearing there may be another woman in his life already, maybe for a while, and maybe, just maybe, another whole family?
TAPPER (voice-over): It may be the biggest break-up in Moscow since the break-up of the soviet socialist republics, the nearly 30-year marriage between Vladimir Putin and his wife is now as dead as "Anna Karenina." The Kremlin pushed back against rumours that Putin has been having an affair and they say he has no plans to remarry. The separation announcement caught everyone by surprise yesterday after Mr. and Mrs. Putin had spent a quiet evening at the ballet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): This was really our mutual decision. Our marriage is over because we barely see each other. Vladimir is engaged with his work and our children have grown up and we're living our own lives so it just so happens we have our own lives and I'm indeed not a public person, flying is difficult for me and we pretty much don't see each other.
TAPPER: But as she opened about her divorce, she said she never really liked flying or publicity and that's probably tough when you're married to the hand gliding, judo chopping, chopper riding, bear- befriending, no-shirt-wearing, most interesting man in the world. Enter the other woman who might be able to keep up.
Reports today say she's a gold medal winning Russian rhythmic gymnast half his age, and she's a member of Russian parliament. Russian TV even devoted an hour to documenting her life story and she graced the cover of Russian "Vogue" in 2011. They were photographed together at a Kremlin banquet almost a decade ago.
Five years ago a Moscow newspaper reported that Putin had divorced his wife and planned to marry the then 24-year-old. Putin did not like that and told reporters to keep their, quote, "snotty noses out of his business." That newspaper no longer exists.
TAPPER: Analysts say the split is not likely to hurt Putin politically, but that could change if he remarries.
Coming up, an update on the breaking news, the latest on the school shooting in Santa Monica. Wolf Blitzer will be right back after this break.