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Brett Seacat Guilty

Aired June 11, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Brett Seacat, killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty of murder in the first degree.

PINSKY: The jury did not buy any of his explanations about his wife`s gruesome death. Did he ex-cop`s arrogance do him in? Her niece is here with the family`s emotional reaction and sense of relief.

Plus, Jodi Arias in chains. How did she manage to assault a fellow inmate? We`ll tell you.

Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.

My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM radio host Jenny Hutt.

Coming up, just released transcripts from the private courtroom conversations in the Jodi Arias trial. Very shocking. Get this: they focus on me and this program. Yes. That`s what they`re talking about behind the scenes. Yes, Jenny. Shocking.

And our jurors. Don`t forget Katie and Stacey. They`re brought up too, specifically, but you`ll see. We`ll bring them up later in the show.

First, now, we`re getting to the Brett Seacat jury. They took about six hours to find him guilty in all charges. He was expressionless as the verdict was read.

Here`s a look at some of the key moments that led up to this conviction today. Take a look.


OPERATOR: 911, do you have an emergency?

BRETT SEACAT, CONVICTED MURDERER: There`s a fire. And my wife is -- she shot herself, but she`s in the fire.

OFFICER: Is there anybody inside?

SEACAT: There`s my wife.

OFFICER: Is she inside?

SEACAT: She`s dead. She shot herself. Her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) head`s gone.

DETECTIVE: Did you murder her?


DETECTIVE: Did you pull the trigger?


DETECTIVE: Did you kill her?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you divorce me, I will kill you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brett T. Seacat, guilty of murder in the first degree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will burn the house down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty of aggravated arson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I will make it look like you did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty of aggravated endangering of a child.


PINSKY: Joining us, attorney from, Mark Eiglarsh, attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar, and attorney Darren Kavinoky who hosts "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery.

CNN`s Ted Rowlands is covering the trial.

Ted, you`re out there. You saw them read the verdict. How did the jurors behave as the verdict was read?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you had both ranges of emotion, Dr. Drew. You had first two male jurors were staring Seacat down as they walked in to read the verdict.

And then one female juror, an elderly woman, broke down and had a tough time with it. When they were polling the jurors individually, in fact her voice cracked when she acknowledged it was her true vote.

Both ranges of emotion. It`s very small courtroom. You could feel that emotion.

PINSKY: And, Ted, how about Vashti`s family? How did they react?

ROWLANDS: Again, they broke down as well. And afterwards talking to them, it was just such a sense of relief. And it has been a two-year journey. They were in tears as you might imagine.


ROWLANDS: Brett Seacat`s father, who was very stoic through most of it, at one point, he, too, broke down hearing the charges against his son.

PINSKY: For you, Ted, I cued that motorcycle without the muffler on it. Thank you for that.

I want to get from that to something I`m concerned about. I`ve got a couple of defense lawyers here on my panel and I want to start to Anahita.

Anahita, how do you defend an animal like this? If you really look at the evidence and you`re the advocate, how do you do that?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: You know, Dr. Drew, I`m defense lawyer and I`ve handled some tough cases. This really has got to be a difficult job for his lawyers. I don`t envy them. I mean, not only do you have a mountain of evidence against your client, but then your client is some ego maniac, some arrogant control freak. I think he`s up there with Jodi Arias.

So, it`s hard. It`s hard to set aside your emotion and be objective as an attorney. But at the end of the day, I believe in our Constitution. Our system allows every defendant, even the ones we hate with the right to a fair trial and right to a defense. And I believe we have one of the best systems if not the best system in the world.

PINSKY: So, Mark, you hate your client just the way Anahita does?

MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Sometimes, especially when they don`t pay. Listen. In a case like this, what you do is you could pass. You don`t have to take it. You know, it`s like let`s -- not let`s make a deal, the one where you pass on the show case show down. You move to the next one, you know?

JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: The price is right.

EIGLARSH: There are clients that I do not have to take after doing this -- thank you. Twenty-one years of being in the system, I don`t have to take certain cases.

But I have represented abhorrent people who have done abhorrent things. And the answer is you talked to your client. What would you like me to do? And then you`re guided but what they want you to do. That doesn`t necessarily mean you`re going to win. That means you`re going to do everything you can to get the best outcome under challenging circumstances.

PINSKY: Jenny, you see what I`m getting at here? They`re all backpedaling.


PINSKY: Jodi Arias says I want to go on the stand and play my sex tapes. OK. All right. I don`t like you nine days out of 10, but OK.


HUTT: As a lawyer I have tremendous compassion for these defense attorneys but I don`t get how they do it either, frankly. And this guy to me is worse than Jodi.

Here`s why. I believe both lives are equally valuable, but this guy took it one step further and engaged the welfare of his own boys and took their mother. How do you do that? What a creep.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: It`s not unlike what an emergency room doctor does in a clinical medical setting, in this sense. This is about makes sure that the criminal justice system functions properly. And it only does that if there is at least one person on the planet that is standing up to abdicate for the individual who stands accused.

But more importantly, to cast the evidence, because our system of justice is that nobody gets convicted unless the government has proof of every element beyond a reasonable doubt. And so, somebody has to stand there and be in the quality control department to make sure that nobody`s convicted on less than that amount of evidence.

PINSKY: All right. Hold on a second.


PINSKY: Go ahead, Mark. Then I got to get to a phone call here. Go.

EIGLARSH: Let me just had this, I had one case in particular comes to mind. A mother who did something horrible to her daughter that I was defending.

My own mother said to me after seeing it on "60 Minutes", you`re really defending that woman? The answer was I am because she was overcharged. And once the facts came out, she was grossly overcharged.

So, in certain cases you learn what the media reports isn`t necessarily what really took place.

PINSKY: What I`m thinking is I`m going to bring your mom in one of these windows to see her point of view on that story.

We got Jerissa Kelley on the phone.

EIGLARSH: She`d love it.

PINSKY: I want to talk to Jarissa. She knew both Vashti and Brett. We are disdainful, but he looks like not a good guy. Are we right?

JERISSA KELLEY, KNEW VASHTI AND BRETT (via telephone): Yes. I didn`t know him on a personal level. I knew Vashti on a personal level. But we would run into them on a few occasions we ran into them on family outings, where our family could run into each other and one specific time that we ran into each other that I just -- it kind -- I just felt chilled was at the zoo, which should be a fun family time. And then I just -- I can only say how I felt.

And I shared my feelings with everyone after, my family, but it was very uncomfortable, very unpleasant, running into them. Vashti was always so full of life. She was kind and loving. But when I ran into them together, her light seemed dim. It was like he cast a cold shadow.

PINSKY: Jerissa, if you watched "NANCY GRACE" before us, you heard the mom, Vashti`s mom, talking about exactly this, that her affect and her social spheres restricted. Everything was brought in because of this guy. And that`s a sign of domestic trouble at home, usually aggression and violence and those sorts of things.

But I appreciate those observations.

I want to talk to April now. She`s also joining us by phone. She lives in the town that this took place.

April, how are people in the town reacting? Are they talking more openly about this guy now that the verdict is out?

APRIL, KNEW SEACAT FAMILY: I was actually born and raised there. And I lived there for 37 years. I moved away from there about ten years ago. But I`m still in touch with everyone back home.

Right now it`s a small community of 3,000 people. So everyone knows everyone else. They may not be friends with everybody, but everyone knows who they are.

So, but the town of Kingman, they`re ready to get their town back. They`re ready to be out of the spotlight of national attention. And they just want to go back to having small town Kingman again.

HUTT: I just got to say, I just --

PINSKY: Go, Jenny.

HUTT: What bothers me so much about the last caller you had on was when she said that Vashti wasn`t herself or her light was out or she was dim.

And frankly your spouse and the one you love and who loves you is suppose to lift you up and build you up and support you so that you shrine and thrive. It`s disgusting.

PINSKY: Ted, I think you were hearing these stories on the ground there. Were you not?

ROWLANDS: Absolutely.

To your point, has the town changed? Absolutely. As soon as the verdict was in, we talk to one of the neighbors that we`ve talking to throughout who was really reserved and didn`t want to give an opinion.

And then after the verdict was in he said, I thought he was guilty at the beginning. And people are exhaling, they were genuinely afraid that he was going to get out because of his ties with law enforcement. A lot of people are very reserved. Now, they`re letting it go.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys.

Next up, we have a primetime exclusive with Vashti`s niece. She`s very emotional on what happened today.

And later, more on -- there she is -- more on the private conversation on the Jodi Arias trial. Why do they make Travis Alexander`s friends angry, just even reading those transcripts? One of them is here to tell us about that.

And we will be right back.



RICH FORREST, VASHTI SEACAT`S BROTHER: My first phone call was to the sheriff`s department, and I said, you guys have a homicide on your hands. Not a suicide. I don`t care what you`re being told. And it`s been committed by somebody who knows police tactics, so you`re going to have to do some digging.


PINSKY: There we go. The behavior bureau is here and so is my co- host Jenny Hunt.

Joining us, criminal investigator Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal," the human lie detector, Janine Driver, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me", psychotherapist Robi Ludwig, author of "Till Death Do Us Part," and our special guest, Syndey Woodside. She is Vashti Seacat`s niece.

Syndey, I want to start with you. I know this is a tough day. I want to thank you for being here. I know you`ve been through it and you`ve been talking to people. And I just want to say thank you for coming.

Let me ask you this.


PINSKY: It`s our pleasure to have you. Did you ever doubt that he committed this murder?

WOODSIDE: No, actually. When it first happened, I was sleeping and my parents came in. Well, my dad and step mom. They told me Vashti died.

And my first thought was car accident. And I asked, where they in a car accident? And they said no. And I said, Brett killed her. That was my initial reaction.

PINSKY: Is that you sighing, Jenny?

HUTT: Yes, it`s just heartbreaking.

PINSKY: It`s incredible.

What made you think that?

WOODSIDE: Brett has always just been an odd character in general. He`s always just had this overpowering personality. He just likes to dominate and be over everybody.

And from knowing him my entire life, it was just assumed.

PINSKY: You spoke to me briefly on the phone before you came on this evening. You told me something about him and his relationship with his dogs. Can you tell us about that?

WOODSIDE: Oh, yes. He had -- in the time that I`ve recently known them in the last seven years -- he had four dogs and mainly two corgis that were his world. He actually specifically trained them in German so no one else could tell his dogs what to do, basically.

And these dogs were his world. I mean, I know people that buy Christmas presents for their dogs and that`s OK. But he legit would have these all-out extravagant things for his dogs. He was actually closer to his dogs than he was to any member of our family.

PINSKY: You see, that`s very interesting to me.

Let me throw out one more theory before I go to the panel. I heard a physician talking today on Jane`s show about the amount of HCG that was found in their house. She was absolutely right. The kind and the concentration and delivery systems of HCG that were discovered in the house are of the nature that is used to come off a steroid cycle.

Did you ever suspect this guy took steroids and that the HGC was actually his and not Vashti`s?

WOODSIDE: We have always known Brett took steroids. There was no question about that. I thought it was kind of comical that they found an e-mail in his tackle box for a steroid recipe and he wanted to deny that email wasn`t sent from himself to himself.

But, no, he has taken steroids. We have known that. He wants to deny it. That`s fine. Whatever makes him happy at the end of the day --

PINSKY: Sorry, my dear. I`ve got to interrupt you and stop and go to the panel. Let`s put the panel up there.

Now, particularly, to those of us that are clinicians, which I guess me and, Robi.

Robi, that is profound information. Is it not?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. I mean, we`ve seen so many cases were especially wrestlers have taken steroids and they suffer from what`s called road rage --

PINSKY: Roid rage.

LUDWIG: Roid rage, yes. And they`re extremely volatile and violent. And in some cases, people will describe these individuals as being very lovely, but whenever you mess around with the chemistry in your body, that`s problematic, especially when it comes to steroids.

We`ve seen over and over again violent behavior as a result of people taking this kind of -- \

PINSKY: Listen. I`ve seen this I want to say thousands of times. People can be completely changed by steroid use, completely. Profoundly manic, profoundly depressed, both, their judgment can be off. They can have rages.

It would make perfect sense to me, coming on, going on off phase, or coming off steroid, somebody could do something very uncharacteristic. It looked like he was cycling down off steroids. This information is shattering to me. It makes the story come right into focus.

I`ll tell you what. This story about her taking the HCG looks completely absurd.

Danine, you have something you want to say?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I have a question. I know in a lot of abusive relationships, the husband will isolate the wife or the abusive spouse will isolate the other one and keep them away from family and friends so they have minimal contact. I`m wondering if this is the case in this situation. If they notice that she was more withdrawn and she was less apt to go to family outings and to interact with her family and even her friends.

PINSKY: Danine, I know you were waiting in a satellite booth. Before -- the segment before, we talked to two people who said exactly. But let`s see if Syndey, her affect, her feelings or range of feelings and her social engagement, did it restrict over time because of her relationship with her husband?

WOODSIDE: Did it? Well, I don`t know. If we had a get together with family or stuff, he would kind of expect her to drive back to their Kingman home and just kind of leave us. Or if she wouldn`t go with him, he would just pack the boys up and go himself and stay overnight and show up maybe some time later this month. This happened on Christmas and Thanksgiving. He just claimed he didn`t want to be around our family.

So I`m sure he did it with her friends and stuff, just guilted her into going home with him.

PINSKY: You mentioned how overbearing he was. And, Danine, I think that`s what she was talking about when people restrict their ability to be social. That`s what these people do.

Syndey, I want to ask you one other thing, how are Vashti`s boys, Branson, age 4, and Brendan age 6? How are they doing and what is the custody situation?

WOODSIDE: They are fabulous. I just saw them before I came out here tonight. And they are ornery and are doing fabulous.

The custody situation is currently they are in legal guardianship of my grandparents. But Vashti had given my mother Kathleen Forrest and my step dad, Jeff, specific instructions a few weeks before she died that she would like them to have the boys. She drove and asked them if they would take the boys if something ever happened to her? And they said that they would.

PINSKY: Do you think that was some sort of premonition she had at that point? Were people concerned about her safety? Was she concerned about her own well being?

WOODSIDE: I think she was deep down concerned. Because Brett had made so many threats in the past. And she asked and my mom wholeheartedly loves those boys and she is willing to take them. Now that the trial is over and we have a verdict, they`re kind of up for a taking in a sense.

My mom`s hoping she gets granted the adoption.

PINSKY: Jenny, I know you`re sighing, but I did hear the mom talked, the grand mom, talked about the fact that the kids had a therapist and was getting care and was thriving and blossoming.

Janine, I want to go to you. I know you`ve been studying this case top to bottom, I want to hear your input on it.

JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: Well, you know, I`m not surprised. I told you the case didn`t make sense all along, especially him being in law enforcement. Law enforcement officers are trained under high stress and anxiety, fight or flight when it kicks in.

They are trained to remember the details. He didn`t remember the conversation about the divorce. What I`d love to know from Syndey is, was he the type of guy -- was Brett the type of guy to constantly be a nag, constantly bring up things that happened before. Was he typically, you know, indicative of him to remember details? And all of a sudden this was odd for him not to remember details of talking about the divorce?

PINSKY: Syndey?

DRIVER: Was he a detail type of guy, Syndey? Did he remember details?

WOODSIDE: I can`t quite hear you, what was that?

PINSKY: OK. You know what I got to do? What I`ll do -- because with the Skyping I bet it`s hard for her to hear out there. What I`m going to do is take a break. Then I`m going to tell Syndey what Janine said and we`ll get that after the break.

I want to remind people, I want to get you -- people that have never seen what roid rage can do to people, I want to remind people -- do you remember the story about the guy that reached in his friend`s chest and pulled out his heart and ate it? That was steroids, plus speed, plus hallucinogen.

Steroids being the critical piece of the escalation, the extreme violence that some people get into the manic behavior. To me, this case comes right into focus if this is a guy that was abusing steroids which we know he was.

Thank you, guys.

Later, why did Jodi Arias wear shackles and a stun belt when she was in court? We now know why. We will tell you that.

Plus, we`ll tell you why we at DR. DREW ON CALL were brought up in chambers during the trial.

Back after this.



NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Ms. Hostetler, did she ever voice her fears to you or anything else in your family that she was afraid he would kill her?

JULIE HOSTETLER, VASHTI SEACAT`S MOTHER: Yes. Many times. I begged her those last two months to not serve him papers, to just separate and let him get acclimated, to move in with us, and her words were I don`t want to endanger your lives.


PINSKY: That is interpersonal terrorism.

It`s a behavior bureau, and that was Vashti`s mother talking to Nancy Grace.

Jenny, I know this has you upset.

HUTT: Of course.

PINSKY: It`s coming into focus for you.

HUTT: Yes. Dr. Drew, you were the first one that brought up the possible steroid use.

PINSKY: I saw he had an accentuated jaw bone here. It looked like growth hormone and steroids to me. And then, the manic, the blown pupils, and there we are, and the stare about the eye.

That`s a biological problem. It`s compared to the guy on the other side who looks like a normal person. This is drug induced something, mania, something.

When you see the pictures of him, they have pictures of him without his shirt on. He doesn`t like a steroid user then. That`s because he`s coming down, he`s cycling off the steroids. That`s when he takes the HCG. Those were his HCG, vials in there that they found in the house. It`s a stunning, stunning story.

Again, back with Jenny Hunt and the behavior bureau.

Vashti Seacat`s niece, Syndey Woodside is here as well. Syndey, I just want to say first of all you`ve been a delight. And if your aunt is anything like you and the rest of your family, I`m even more pissed and even angry at the loss to your family. You guys seem just wonderful.

And I`m sad you came in contact with this monster.

Now, Janine had a question before the break. Was Brett a detail kind of guy? Could he remember details?

WOODSIDE: He was very detailed. No question in my mind, very detailed.

PINSKY: Janine, you have a follow-up on that?

DRIVER: That`s just indicative in law enforcement. They are trained to literally go through an exercise called the red man. A red man exercise is you walk into a room, an abandoned building that`s part of training, and these guys come at you and start beating you up and hitting you and taking you down and you have to remember details and fight for your life.

They train you constantly in law enforcement, fight or flight, to remember details. Him not remembering the fact of the conversation he had with his wife on divorce was suspicious. Her shooting herself in the back of her head and leg and lighting the house on fire, it didn`t make sense.

I`m not surprised the jury was smart enough to come up with the verdict of murder one.

PINSKY: Jenny you have a question?

HUTT: Well, I do. First of all, I want to say, Syndey, you are like the most poised young girl I`ve seen in a long time. You`re incredible.

But "B," was Vashti even worried about her weight? She was this beautiful girl. And then the defense tried to make it like she was trying to diet. What`s your thoughts?

WOODSIDE: Was she dieting? Is that what you`re asking?

PINSKY: Would she be something who would take HCG? I think she had discussed she was taking the sublingual HCG, which is sort of not as powerful.

She was dieting probably anyone else would, was that right?

HUTT: She wasn`t overly consumed.

PINSKY: Would that be about right?

WOODSIDE: Yes. There`s several different types of HCG. And I`m very well -- I do understand it very well because I`ve had other family members that have taken it. There`s an injection and there`s actually droplets you can do under your tongue. They`re more of an appetite suppressant and you follow a very strict calorie and that`s basically how you lose weight on it.

PINSKY: I want to go to the phone now and talk to Joy (INAUDIBLE).

Joy, you had lunch with Vashti the day before the murder. Did you get any clues that day, that lunch, that she was in trouble?


PINSKY: How do you feel about the verdict now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am really thankful. I think justice was served. And her family can now have closure.

PINSKY: Did she suggest to you or did she confide in you anything about the concern she had about her husband and her own safety?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At one point, yes. She was talking to me and I said, "Vashti, are you afraid of him?" And she said, "Joy, he`s bigger than I am. He`s stronger but he wouldn`t hurt me with the boys there."

PINSKY: Yes. So, we wish, but you add in the combi (ph) of steroids, and there you go. Danine, you have a question?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I do. Dr. Drew, I have a question about the children. I have a seven-year-old and when Sandy Hook happened, I completely kept her away from the TV and the radio. I`m wondering in these situations, is it better to give the kids the real story so that they can deal with it early or is it better to just kind of keep it away from them as much as possible? How do you deal with this?

PINSKY: You know, I don`t deal with the pediatric age group. Robi, maybe you`ll help me out with this. My sort of approach would be let the kids come to you and you answer honestly as things come along.


PINSKY: You don`t have an agenda that you have to play out through your kids.

LUDWIG: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Robi, you agree with that?

LUDWIG: Yes, I do. And, of course, you want to make sure that your kids are not frightened. So, you want to protect them from any kind of news that would be frightening. But basically, I think it`s healthy to encourage a direct dialogue and open communication with your children early on. You want to develop that kind of relationship. In fact, I`m wondering if Sydney knows if the children will visit their father in prison?

PINSKY: Interesting.

LUDWIG: If that even had been thought about yet?

PINSKY: Sydney, did you hear that one? Yes.

SYDNEY WOODSIDE, VASHTI SEACAT`S NIECE: Yes, I heard that one. We have, as a family, discussed where we stand kind of and what we all think about the decision to have them visit Brett in jail. It kind of more came down to when they are older and they comprehend a little bit more of what happened and where exactly daddy is. We`ll let them make that decision if they ever want to. That we will allow them.

PINSKY: Syndey, that`s actually very healthy. And I understand they do have therapists that are working with them. And hat`s off to you guys. Sydney, you`ve been a joy, you`ve been a pleasure. I arranged not just the motorcycle without the muffler to go by but I have a tornado coming in for you, so maybe you better take cover. We thank you for being here. Thank you to behavior bureau.

Next up, how did a shackled Jodi Arias attack a fellow inmate? We`re going to tell you about that.

And later, the Dr. Drew cast members here, some of the theatrics, reenacting, more of the private conversation from Jodi`s trial coming up.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, and the DR. DREW ON-CALL players, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Mark Eiglarsh, and Darren Kavinoky. But first, Jodi and her team promised she would be a model prisoner if the jury would just let her live. Take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s talk about some of the good things about Jodi. Things that show that she has value still.

JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: If I`m sentenced to life, I will live among the general population. Over the years, I`ve spent in incarceration, I received many request from women to teach them Spanish or American --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ryan told you that when she would come to these PPL meetings and these Super Saturday (ph) meetings, that these people enjoyed her. That she got along well with people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias. But that doesn`t matter.


PINSKY: And Jodi wore a stun belt in court. Her feet were shackled when she wasn`t in the courtroom. Now, we might, in fact, know why. Journalist, Shanna Hogan, is author of about to be a publish book, "Picture Perfect" about Jodi. Shanna, why was she in chains and a stun belt?

VOICE OF SHANNA HOGAN, AUTHOR: Right, Dr. Drew. We`re learning now that the sheriff wanted her shackled because he actually thought Jodi was a flight risk. He cites in his (INAUDIBLE) that her jailhouse rap sheet (ph) which was an 11-page document that included these infractions she committed while behind bars which ranged from things like hiding pens to really aggressive behavior.

PINSKY: Now, I have those reports right here in my hand, Shanna. I`ve got them right here. This is really fascinating. They`re very institutional kinds of report of misconduct. And then, there`s further actions taken by the judges who review these documents. And yes, she`s doing all kinds of squirrely things. Is that what they`re talking about, Shanna?

HOGAN: Absolutely. In 2009, she was in her cell and her back was pushed against the wall, and a guard saw her kicking one of her cell mates. And then, the next year in 2010, the guard noticed that there were screws missing from a light fixture. When they searched her cell, they found it underneath the toilet seat with several empty bags and some mysterious brown powder.

She also had pictures that were unauthorized. Pens that were not allowed in jail and mail belonging to some of the other inmates.

PINSKY: And what I love, Shanna, in every single one of these reports -- again, these are formal reports of misconduct. One of them, particularly, they told her over the loud speaker, told her to sit down and stop talking. She kept on going. But in every single report, she blamed other inmates. It`s classic Jodi. Right?

HOGAN: Absolutely. It`s very characteristic of her past behavior --

PINSKY: Fascinating.

HOGAN: -- of never accepting responsibility.

PINSKY: All right. Thank you, Shanna. Next -- now, I`m wondering this. Should Jodi`s spotty record be considered by the judge or jury when it comes to sentencing? Anahita, I`ll start with you.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: I don`t think so, Dr. Drew. I mean, five years in prison, these aren`t like the worst infractions possible. Hiding pens. I mean, Jodi was probably having TV camera withdrawals, because there`s no cameras in jail. She`s probably doing this for attention or who knows, maybe stealing pens so she could do more of her Picasso-esque wonderful paintings to sell on eBay or should I say tracing? You know? I don`t think it should come in. At the end of the day, they`re not the worst infractions --


PINSKY: I get you, and I thought the same thing myself. But then, Darren, we have Willmott out there saying, oh, she`s a model citizen. Everybody loves her. She`s so great. I think if you`re the guards or the administrator, she ain`t so great.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Yes. She clearly doesn`t play well with others. And, I think I join the rest of the panel that not terribly shocked by it. They don`t seem like the worst transgressions, but, they become more important if the defense team is going to make the argument that she deserves to live because of this good behavior that she demonstrates while in custody.

PINSKY: Now, mark, before you break into your Juan Martinez, I`ll let you have the last word on this.

MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Yes. I think that the judge should consider them. I don`t think the judge should give it such great weight, especially again, keep in mind that the future of the cure for cancer lies in her hands based on her speech.

PINSKY: Right. That`s right. I forgot that. You`re right. Willmott seemed to echo those same kinds of sentiments. Interesting. All right. Enough of that. It is time for serious business of another edition of Dr. Drew`s theater.

My cast is going to reenact a segment of the secret closed door hearings about the defense in which case -- this is -- again, this is the hearing with the judge between Willmott and Nurmi and Martinez and the judge. The defense is wanting to portray Travis Alexander as a pedophile.

Tonight, as the judge, Anahita, Darren is Nurmi, and Mark, as I said, Martinez. Mr. Martinez.

KAVINOKY: Dr. Drew, I do object. I feel like I`m being typecast with this Nurmi thing. And I`ve gotten a lot of people tweet -- to distinguish that.

PINSKY: I`m going to pick up the crucible next. Don`t worry. Let`s get on with this.


PINSKY: Go ahead, Mr. Martinez.

EIGLARSH: I don`t start.

KAVINOKY: Oh, no, it`s the judge.

PINSKY: Oh, the judge. I beg your pardon.

SEDAGHATFAR: I see Martinez starting, but OK.

PINSKY: No, no. It says Martinez starts.


PINSKY: We`ve already screwed this up, guys.

SEDAGHATFAR: I can be Martinez.


PINSKY: -- attorneys and not actually actors.


PINSKY: All right. We`re starting at the hearing.

EIGLARSH: I don`t have any Martinez starting.

PINSKY: Where is that?

KAVINOKY: I have the first line. The next issue and it`s the judge.

PINSKY: Go ahead.


EIGLARSH: The judge. Right. That`s what I have, Darren.


The issue still relates to the observation that your client made of the victim with the photographs of the young boys.

KAVINOKY: Wait a second.


KAVINOKY: So, here`s your line Anahita. The next issue you`re going to have your expert testify regarding two issues. To which I replied, two issues regarding to pedophilia.


KAVINOKY: I don`t know what you mean by the other issue.

SEDAGHATFAR: I have a different script here.

PINSKY: You must have the one where I play Nurmi. Somebody from producing needs to help sort us out here.

KAVINOKY: I can do an interpretive reading of the judge and Nurmi.

PINSKY: I`m about to do an interpretive dance, you guys are so bad.

HUTT: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Jenny?

HUTT: I`m prepared to do our scene.

PINSKY: I am, too. So, what we will do --

HUTT: Let`s go.

PINSKY: Hang on. We`re going to take a little break. And, what you`re supposed to have heard was a closed door argument over Travis` alleged pedophilia. And the fact is I want the behavior bureau to weigh in on that, because it`s disturbing when you hear how they were portraying Travis behind closed doors. I have to figure how we`re going to give you that information because my cast has --


PINSKY: -- this reminds me of that -- "SNL" skit where all the cast members had Alzheimer`s. I`m just saying.


PINSKY: Next up, how worried were Jodi`s attorney about my jurors? You`re going to hear that. You`re going to hear what Kirk Nurmi said about our program. I will be Nurmi. We`ll be back after this.



ARIAS: Remember the first time that you and I grinded? I ended up just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and you`re like whoa just (EXPLETIVE DELETED). And at the same time, I looked around and there`s this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like all over it. It was so hot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t even notice it.

ARIAS: I know. I`ve done that once or twice two. Where it`s like I missed the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). The signature landmark. Have you seen "Ironman?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not a huge fan of superhero movies, honestly. I`m actually not a big fan of "Spider-Man."

ARIAS: I like the story line, but I don`t like sitting through all the movie.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, and our cast of re- enactors.


PINSKY: You guys, we have regrouped. We have your scripts in hand now. We`re going to -- Jenny and I have ours. We`re ready. We`re going to do our piece, then we`ll have you guys give the information on the next segment. But I want to give you the reviews are in. A tweet that came through.

By the way, my Twitterverse is ever vigilant, reminding me that things are called tweets and not Twitters. Thank you, guys, for doing that. Most of our Twitter handles are up there. "Oops! That was an epic fail. Had my popcorn ready and all for the theater." First, initial reviews --

EIGLARSH: We`re ready to go, man.

PINSKY: We`ll give --

SEDAGHATFAR: We`ll get a retake, Dr. Drew. We get a retake.

PINSKY: We will. Don`t worry. I`m going to give you that. But first, Jenny and I are going to have a reenactment of the private hearings in the judge`s chambers. We`re going to play this one out. I will play the part of the attorney who threw me and my staff under the bus, Kirk Nurmi. Jenny Hutt will be Judge Stevens. Jenny, you ready for this?

HUTT: I am.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you. Let`s do this some justice. Here it goes. It`s kind of interesting. It`s kind of stunning. I was stunned when I heard this, frankly. All right. Kirk Nurmi, here I am. Last night watching one of these shows, it came to my attention that a couple of people that are coming as members of the public are really acting as media. They`re being public and they`re going on as Dr. Drew`s jurors.

They`re watching the trial and they`re reporting as quote/unquote "Dr. Drew`s Jurors." I`m concerned that digital recording devices may be being employed to tape what`s going on and, obviously, one could be left behind. He`s getting paranoid.

When we play a tape, it goes over the speakers and a digital recorder somewhere placed outside of the view of security could easily be recording what`s going on. I am just concerned for Miss Arias` rights. Not wanting to get a mistrial here. Not much. Judge?

HUTT: I believe that there are three full-time security people in plain clothes stationed in the courtroom looking for anyone recording, taking photographs, improperly using their cell phones. So, I don`t think there should be an issue.

PINSKY: All right. I just thought that was stunning that he brought that up. And he insisted that we were somehow recording. I want to be really clear about something. We kid around. We don`t kid around when it comes to the justice system. The guests who served as my quote/unquote "jurors" were never serving as media on our behalf nor were they recording anything.

They were just giving, as public, as members of the public, their observations about what they saw. Mark, thoughts?

EIGLARSH: Well, you know, it`s his job to raise any potential issues. He wants to make sure that if she`s convicted, she potentially has a record. So, she could use that and get a new trial. Don`t kill the messenger. That`s him doing his job. It`s his job to be paranoid.

PINSKY: Anahita?

SEDAGHATFAR: I absolutely agree with Mark. I mean, this is a capital case. And the attorneys do need to raise every possible issue to make a record for appeal or to, you know, further request for mistrial. But I mean, Dr. Drew, you`re famous now. The judge knows you. People in Arizona know you.

PINSKY: Fantastic. What I`ve always wanted. Darren.

EIGLARSH: He was famous way before that.

PINSKY: Darren, your thoughts?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, he`s more famous now. He`s more famous now.

KAVINOKY: Here`s my final thought. One, you are quite famous, Dr. Drew. And two, just because you`re paranoid doesn`t mean they`re not out to get you. And I think Nurmi might have been on to something. Although, I don`t buy for a second that he didn`t want a mistrial. He would have loved the mistrial. Things were not going his way.

PINSKY: Jenny, finish it up here.

HUTT: No, I agree. I was just thinking the whole time that you arrived. That`s all I was thinking.


PINSKY: I`ve finally arrived. Thank you. Thank you.

HUTT: I was proud of you.

PINSKY: I`m so proud. I`m so proud.


PINSKY: I`m going to take a break. How about that?


PINSKY: To me, I was stunned. Not in a good way. I thought, really? We can`t like report on these things without being dragged into it?

HUTT: No, I get it. I get what they were saying. Look, take Nurmi, what if an actual juror was going and then coming and being on the show or what if these people were recording --

PINSKY: I get it. He was doing his job. Still seems paranoid to me.

Up next, now, finally, after this intermission, you will get the dramatic conclusion -- well, actually, it was supposed to be the introduction that you missed ten minutes ago. We`re actually going to do it after the break.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Mark Eiglarsh, Darren Kavinoky. Our cast, it is time for another of our theater reenactment. My cast for reenact the secret close door hearings in which the defense wanted to portray Travis as a pedophile. Tonight as the judge, Anahita, Darren is Nurmi, Mark is Martinez. We have limited time. I want people to get a sense of what was going on behind closed doors there, guys. Don`t let me down. Mark.

EIGLARSH: At the hearing involving the alleged pedophilia, Miss LaViolette indicated that when she spoke to the defendant, the defendant told her that Mr. Alexander was on the computer and that he was looking at this child porn. Officer Michael Melendes, I will call him to testify that he`s gone through the computer and there`s no child porn there. They have gotten through every single disk in the house, and there was no child porn that was found.

SEDAGHATFAR: The issue still relates to the observation that your client made of the victim with the photographs of the young boys.

KAVINOKY: Ms. LaViolette will telefy testiphonically to that. To which I think there`s some laughter now. Wait. What did I say?

EIGLARSH: Telefy testiphonically.

SEDAGHATFAR: Look, it`s been a long day and I knew what you meant. So we can address the issue with regard to the photographs of the boys from 10:30 to noon.

KAVINOKY: There`s no photographs.

SEDAGHATFAR: I know there are no photographs, but the issue. You wanted your client to testify about what she observed.


PINSKY: But aside from the great performance, the theater of the absurd is what was going on on Jodi`s defense. Yes, thank you, Mark. That`s about how good the defense was of trying to drag poor Travis through the mud. Let`s all remind ourselves, no evidence of anything, anywhere. There`s not an expert on the Earth that would say this guy was a pedophile. He saw him with the magazine that fell open. Forget it. Thank you, guys. Last call is next.


PINSKY: Jenny, thank you for being by my side through this challenging program this evening. Interesting. My apologies to "HLN After Dark" who has to follow up. It was fun. Interesting. Hope you learn something, and it begins right now.