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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Brett Seacat Found Guilty

Aired June 11, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Moments ago, a jury convicts handsome former hero cop Brett Seacat of murdering his beautiful wife. Four -- four -- guilty verdicts. Murder, arson, two counts of child endangerment.

Also tonight, a brand-new theory of this case. Did roid rage cause this ex-hero cop to murder his wife while his kids slept? Were the diet supplements he claims his wife was using really his?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRETT SEACAT, CONVICTED OF MURDER (via phone): There`s a fire and my wife is -- she shot herself, but she`s in the fire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You killed your wife, didn`t you?

SEACAT (on camera): No, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury did not buy his story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Brett T. Seacat, guilty of murder in the first degree.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This, Vinnie, was a victory for common sense.

SEACAT (via phone): Hurry! Hurry! I think she`s dead. I think she shot herself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ridiculous, ridiculous story that he has.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brett T. Seacat, guilty of aggravated arson.

SEACAT: There`s smoke everywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty of aggravated endangering of a child.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brett, convicted of executing his wife, Vashti, with a .44 caliber hand gun, then burning down the house to try to cover his tracks, with his two little boys sleeping inside.

Thankfully, the sons made it out of the fire, but Brett will not be escaping from the crimes that night.

The hunky cop was stone-faced as the judge handed down the verdict. Listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the case of state of Kansas versus Brett T. Seacat, count one, murder in the first degree. We, the jury, find the defendant, Brett T. Seacat, guilty.

Count two, aggravated arson. We, the jury, find the defendant, Brett T. Seacat, guilty.

Count three, aggravated endangering of a child. Guilty.

Count four, aggravated endangering of a child. Guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vashti`s family says they knew it was Brett all along, but they were terrified because he`s this former hero cop, CSI instructor. They were afraid that he would get away with murder, because he was a cop. That`s video of him.

Vashti`s brother said he called the police and told them to dig for evidence, to not let him get away. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My first phone call was to the sheriff`s department, and I said, "You guys have a homicide on your hands, not a suicide. I don`t care what you`re being told. And it`s been committed by somebody that knows police tactics, and you`re going to have to do some digging."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297.

Straight out to Calah Forrest, a cousin of Vashti, the murder victim.

And Calah, I want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. I know this has been a hellish experience for your family. What did it feel like the moment that you heard "guilty" on all counts?

CALAH FORREST, VASHTI`S COUSIN (via phone): Just relief. Feels like a ton of bricks had been lifted off our family. I was holding my breath. He was getting ready to read the verdict and just so scared that he actually might get away with it. I think our whole family feels relieved. I think this is a huge steppingstone in moving forward.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to say, my heart goes out to your family. This has got to be horrible. And very difficult. Even with these guilty verdicts.

We are now getting brand new information, by the way, that Vashti`s mother begged her mother, "Do not serve Brett with divorce papers." Listen to what she told Nancy Grace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Ms. Hostetler, did she ever voice her fears to you or anyone else in your family that she was afraid he would kill her?

JULIE HOSTETLER, VASHTI SEACAT`S MOTHER: Yes, many times. I begged her those last two months to not serve him papers, to just separate and let him get acclimated, to move in with us. And her words were, "I don`t want to endanger your life."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. You can watch more of this extraordinary interview tonight on Nancy Grace, top of the hour, 8 p.m. Eastern.

And once again, Calah Forrest, you are a cousin of Vashti`s. You knew this man, and he looks arrogant right in this photo, this former cop, CSI instructor. Did you get a sense that he was capable of a monstrosity like this, calculating and plotting the murder of his wife with his two boys in the house, setting fire to the house and then saying she killed herself? Did you ever get a sense he was capable of this?

FORREST: I don`t know if I ever thought it would be to that extreme. I think our whole family felt there was something off about him, very arrogant, controlling. He looks at you just like he looked right through you. I mean, yes, it was always off; like, you couldn`t put your finger on it.

But no, something to this extreme. I mean, I can`t wrap my head around that. I mean, I don`t think that way, you know? Only psychopaths think like that, in my mind, and I just -- no, I don`t think I thought that he would ever do anything this extreme.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you think that Vashti didn`t listen to her mom when her mom said don`t do it? Because moms know and so many women are killed when they try to leave their husband. She had just served her with divorce papers two days earlier. He had said that he was going to kill her and make it look like a suicide and set the house on fire. We know that because of testimony and because friends of hers said that she would ask them, "Do you think he`d burn the house down with me and the kids inside?"

She -- she honestly loved him, I guess, Calah.

FORREST: Yes, I just -- I think that she thought as long as the children are with her that he wouldn`t harm her. I really think that`s what she believed. I think that she thought that that would control the situation. I don`t think she thought that she would endanger them. But apparently, that`s not the case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Calah, if you could stand by, there is a brand-new theory of the case emerging. I`d like to get your thoughts on it. But first, we want to lay it out for you.

Brett accused his wife of being depressed from taking diet supplements. We have obtained new information tonight that the diet supplements shown in court were reportedly not hers. So were they his?

And adding to the mystery, his apparent rage and his buffed physique. Check out his anger during this interrogation tape. And then we`ll try to connect the dots if we can. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made it look like she did it.

SEACAT: That is -- that is bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you murder her?

SEACAT: No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you pull the trigger?

SEACAT: No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill her?

SEACAT: No!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You hear his anger. OK, HCG is a hormone used for weight loss.

Straight out to Kathleen Mason, who prescribed HCG weight loss for Mrs. Seacat, but you believe that the syringes and the diet supplements seen in court were not hers; they were his. What are the implications of that and why do you believe that?

KATHLEEN MASON, PRESCRIBED HCG FOR VASHTI SEACAT (via phone): Well, first of all, the syringes were 3 cc syringes. The vials themselves only contained of 1 cc of reconstitute and one cc of HCG. It makes up to a complete 1 cc, because one is liquid, and one is powder. It would be impossible to utilize that and use it for weight loss, because you do not have a syringe small enough to measure that.

However, if you were using it to come off of drugs when they do steroids to juice is what it`s called, they use HCG to resume their own testosterone production. In order to do that, the dosage is actually 5,000 international units three times a week, and there were three boxes, and they were each 5,000 units.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Kathleen, we all know the phrase "roid rage," and that is when you`re taking too much testosterone, that it can create a feeling of rage and anger. And that`s why they coined the term "roid rage." Are you suggesting, perhaps, that Brett Seacat was suffering from something like that?

MASON: I think he has a distinct possibility that he has been a juicer in the past and has utilized HCG to come down off of it. That is not in any way, shape or form what I prescribed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So that is extraordinary, and I want to go out to our legal team. Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, as well as our whole entire team.

But Stacey, this is new information. Nobody has talked about this. The equipment, the diet supplement equipment that was in court, this lady says, "That`s not what I gave Vashti." So it could be his. It was found in his tackle-box, allegedly. Does that put a whole new spin on this case?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, you really don`t need a new spin on the case, because the fact of the matter is, he was convicted of her murder and the arson and child endangerment of the children.

But certainly, what we`ve been hearing about in the press thus far about this case, it does take a new spin. If nobody was able to identify that those were her supplements in court.

And certainly, the idea that it was found IN his tackle-box was never brought into court, because I`m sure his lawyers didn`t want anybody to know that. It would be interesting to know how it was presented in court and who testified that those were, in fact, the HCG drugs that were prescribed to her by a physician.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent, who was in court for the duration. This was a big controversy. The family of Vashti listening to her getting basically dragged through the mind. He was claiming she was sleeping on the job with other men and that she was taking the supplements.

You just heard new information that the person who prescribed the supplements said, "That`s not what I prescribed her. Anyway, I prescribed them a long time ago" and said that could belong to him.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That`s what the prosecution alleged in closing arguments. Remember, they brought the tackle-box out, and they said that this is Brett Seacat`s. In fact, when he was on the stand, they brought the tackle-box out and said, is this yours? He said, "No, it isn`t."

There was an e-mail in there from his e-mail account to his e-mail account with a recipe for steroids, and the prosecution basically said to this jury, "This wasn`t Vashti`s. This was his, and he was doing steroids."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Roid rage, it makes people do crazy things. Could that explain the unexplainable? How could a man -- we keep asking this question over and over. How could a man who had been a hero cop at one point, do something so unthinkably monstrous as kill his wife with his two sons sleeping in the house, risking their lives before getting them out but that`s a risk. Who would do that in their right mind? Was it roid rage?

More on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count one, murder in the first degree. We, the jury, find the defendant, Brett T. Seacat, guilty of murder in the first degree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told a friend a week and a half prior to this incident happening that you threatened to kill her.

SEACAT: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You threatened to burn the house down and you threatened to make it look like she did it.

SEACAT: That is -- that is bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If he sounds rageful, maybe that`s not just our imagination.

Vashti`s family had to listen to Brett dragging his wife`s name through the mud. He accused Vashti of cheating on him and sleeping around on the job and of taking diet supplements that made her moody and suicidal. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEACAT: She`s the one who told me that she slept with the vice president. She had had several affairs with her supervisor. The last one that she had iron-clad confirmed was in 2008. But she had alluded to being responsible for an affair with him as late as March and April.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: March and April of what year?

SEACAT: 2011.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate this with our expert panel. Take a look at that. That`s a syringe. You just heard from the prescriber, who was on the phone with us tonight, that she didn`t describe that to Vashti. So that`s not her diet supplement. She thinks it possibly -- and the prosecution believes -- it belonged to Brett. And this stuff is taken in combination or to get off of testosterone, and testosterone causes roid rage.

Drew Findling, criminal defense attorney, what do you think?

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll tell you something. I agree with Stacey that the case is over with at this point, and actually, if anything...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? Hold on a second. It may be over, but if we`ve got new information that gets to why, why somebody who had been a hero cop, who had been at one point stable, stable enough to be married and have two kids, turns around and becomes a monster, there`s got to be an explanation. And I think, Drew, what I`m asking is, could this be the explanation?

FINDLING: Well, that`s what I was going to get at. I think that you`re going to hear both sides potentially address this at the sentencing in this case. It clearly presents a potential explanation.

Those of us that do these cases see the influence of steroids. It`s presented by both sides. It`s one of the rare areas that prosecutors present and defense attorneys present as a cause for why somebody would completely be out of control. So I think it`s going to probably be mentioned possibly by both sides at sentencing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was so much evidence against Brett, including some really bizarre things that he did in the days leading up to his wife`s death. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He came in, and he asked for an overhead projector, which we thought was odd, because nobody had asked for one in years. It was also odd because he said he needed to research a fraud case, and the defendant didn`t teach fraud.

He torches two hard drives out in the open, says he`s got to get rid of them, because there`s personal information on there.

And we also know now that the defendant took the stand and admitted that he was destroying cell phones that day, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You`re going to look at a mock-up of the home and Google images of the home. Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice, he said his wife set fire to the house and then shot herself in the head. But there`s no sign in her lungs of any soot or having been breathing any fire or fumes.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, that would indicate that she was deceased when the fire actually flared up.

It`s interesting that she was killed with a .44 magnum gun. And this is an extremely powerful and heavy weapon. It is not the kind of gun that women use to commit suicide. I mean, women are sometimes using guns, more and more often to commit suicide, but not this kind of a gun. This is the kind of gun you use to take down big game. This is a man`s gun, if you will.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hopefully not.

KOBILINSKY: And a shot like that will open up a person`s head. The tremendous power of that round is amazing. This is a very heinous situation. And then, of course, because he`s a police officer, he knows that fire is a great way to cover up physical evidence. And so, you know, setting fire is a great way to do it.

But finding residue of gasoline on one`s clothing is a giveaway. And I think that`s part of the story that actually resulted in his conviction.

You`re right, because they found gasoline on his pants.

Judy, North Carolina, your question or thought. Judy, North Carolina.

CALLER: Hi, Jane, love you and your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: I just want to say I`m so glad that Brett Seacat is being held responsible for his wife`s murder.

And I would also say that I did the HCG diet myself about two months ago, and it does not cause depression. So I was, like, yelling at the TV always when they were bringing that up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think this is an excellent point. I want to go back very briefly to Kathleen Mason, who prescribed the weight loss to Vashti. It`s a different kind than the kind that was presented in court.

Do you think, from what you know about all of this, that he could have been suffering from roid rage, and that could have created this unimaginable scenario of him doing the unthinkable?

MASON: No, I don`t know him. He`s not my patient. So I don`t know what his demeanor is under normal circumstances, so I really can`t comment.

I can comment on the thousands of patients I`ve placed on HCG. And women come to me and men come to me and give me hugs and say, "Thank you, thank you. You`ve given me my life back." That`s not depression, and that`s not what I see.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re confirming that Vashti was not depressed as a result of taking...

MASON: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. So when you saw her, she was happy, upbeat?

MASON: Oh, yes. She was very conscientious about her health and conscientious about what her intake was and wanted to make sure that this was safe and really grilled me quite heavily on whether or not this was safe. She was a mom of two kids, and she wanted to make sure she was doing what was appropriate in maintaining a healthy weight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got so much more still unfolding. This story is not over, not by a long shot. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEACAT (via phone): There`s a fire! And my wife is -- she shot herself, but she`s in the fire.

There`s smoke everywhere. Just a second. Ahhh!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get everybody out of the house.

SEACAT: Oh, God!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only night that he`s going to be in the house with Vashti. And he knows this. This is his only opportunity. This is his -- this is the time for him to commit the murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The autopsy showed that the bullet went right through Vashti`s spine, and that it would be very hard for her to shoot herself the way that she was shot, and anyway, women don`t usually shoot themselves in the face area when they commit suicide.

There were so many things that he did that really were clumsy, given that he was a CSI investigator. He should have known better.

I want to go to Ted Rowlands, who`s outside court, along with Monty Weldon, a neighbor of Seacat.

In fact, Mr. Weldon, if you can hear me, speak up, sir. I know there`s some -- somebody mowing a lawn back there. You saw him before all this went down where you guys thought you were going to have some kind of cookout and he said, "No, it`s canceled. We`re going to get divorced." Were you suspicious at all?

MONTY WELDON, NEIGHBOR OF SEACAT: Yes, I was. I mean, it just -- very suspicious, no doubt about that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to wait till they finish that lawn and come back to you.

Joe Episcopo, here is the thing that I can`t get my head around. He`s a CSI investigator. Yet he makes clumsy mistakes that my gosh, I don`t think a kid in high school who knew nothing, had never seen an episode of "CSI." He`s doing -- forging his wife`s suicide note at work the day before he kills her. I mean, stuff like that.

JOE EPISCOPO: Well, you know, Jane, you`ve given him hope. You see, because he testified...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t want to give him hope.

EPISCOPO: ... and the jury didn`t believe him. Well, you did. He testified, the jury didn`t believe him. You can`t appeal that. But now you`ve given him an issue, ineffective assistance of counsel. They should have thought of this. So he may have a retrial, and it will be because of you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you very much.

EPISCOPO: He should thank you for that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now I can`t sleep tonight. And I don`t think that`s true.

But let me go back to Stacey Honowitz. You`re a Florida prosecutor. Look, they presented in court the diet stuff with the syringes. The prosecution said, "I believe that those are his." I don`t think that there`s grounds for any kind of a retrial on that basis, do you?

HONOWITZ: Look, no, I don`t think there is. But certainly there`s appealable issues. In any murder case there`s going to be an appealable issue, especially when there`s a conviction.

But they presented what they needed to present. The fact of the matter is the story that he gave was absolutely preposterous. Whether you want to bring the steroids into it or not, to determine whether they`re his, the story that he gave about her committing suicide, her being depressed, the idea that the two children were in the house, why would she want to kill herself and light the house on fire, and the fact that she served him with divorce papers. Why would she need to kill herself when she was divorcing him? So it never made sense.

But certainly, you`re going to have some grounds for appeal. I don`t think that`s one of them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think this is a victory for common sense. Sometimes jurors or -- they think it`s reasonable doubt: "Will the sun come up tomorrow? I don`t know."

This time they used their common sense, and I congratulate them.

Up next, this is a deadly weapon. And we`re going to tell you how it was used to kill a professor. Unbelievable story. We`re demonstrating, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why she told me that if anybody ever messed with her, she pulled her shoe off and says, "I`ll get them with this."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, these shoes were made for walking. But take a look at a woman now accused of taking a sexy stiletto like this and beating her boyfriend to death with it. Was this stiletto stabbing self- defense as she claims?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A woman in Houston is accused of killing her boyfriend with her stiletto heels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Using the stiletto to kill her boyfriend.

JIM CARROLL, KNEW SUSPECT: Twice she told me that if anybody ever messed with her, she pulled her shoe off and said "I`ll get them with this" and it was a big stiletto heel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The (inaudible) appeared to have about 10 puncture wounds to the head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like a possible mutual combat type situation, a mutual assault.

CARROLL: I could see her doing it, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: 44-year-old Ana Trujillo, accused of bludgeoning her boyfriend, a top research professor from the University of Houston, to death with her stiletto heel -- That was the weapon, this is the deadly weapon -- inside his luxury high rise. She reportedly called the cops to say she was being attacked, but when they got Alf Andersson`s apartment he was already dead.

Ana reportedly answered the door covered in blood and his body was lying in a nearby hallway with a stiletto next to his head. She claims he came after her and she fought back in self-defense. But do multiple -- and I mean multiple stab wounds reveal that she`s keeping toxic secrets? Did late night tequila drinking have anything to do with it? And could this man, who knows the alleged killer, prove it was premeditation? Not this one, he`s dead. This one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: I`m not surprised. I mean I`m surprised to see her there, but I could see her doing it, yes, yes. To me she`s always been the aggressor because twice she told me that if anybody ever messed with her, she pulled her shoe off and said "I`ll get them with this." And it was a big stiletto heel. And I used to tease her how she could walk around on those things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`ll also talk about the Jodi Arias friend. Yes, kill your boyfriend viciously and then say it was self-defense.

Straight out to Yang Wang, reporter with the "Houston Chronicle", what do you know about this case?

YANG WANG, "HOUSTON CHRONICLE": Well, there had been new details released at the first court hearing this morning. It sounds like there have been some unhappy episodes before the heel turned to a deadly weapon. Apparently, the couple had been drinking tequila at a nightclub, where another guy offered to buy drinks for the woman, which upset the -- Mr. Andersson, the research professor at UH. Then they took a cab back home, and then continued to argue about what Trujillo, the woman mentioned she wants to visit her daughter in Waco, a city about 200 miles northwest of Houston. Then the couple got into a struggle when the defendant hit the victim with the shoe, and trying to get him off her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This wasn`t -- thank you for that excellent report -- but this wasn`t just "hit her with a heel". I mean, you will not believe the number of times. I`ve added it up to -- up to 30 puncture wounds. And some of them go almost as deep as the heel itself.

This woman stood before a judge and listened as attorneys laid out the details of this brutal killing. Listen to what cops saw when they got to this crime scene -- unbelievable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Upon arrival, officer rang the doorbell. The defendant, Ana Trujillo, answered the door with blood on her clothes and on her hands. The victim appeared to have about ten puncture wounds to the head, some being one to one and a half inch deep. He also had 15 to 20 other puncture wounds along his face and arms and neck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, this is not the actual autopsy drawing, but you can see the huge number of injuries prosecutors say there were. Ten puncture wounds on the victim`s head, some as deep as an inch and a half. And 15 to 20 wounds on his face and neck. What does this tell you about the killing?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC EXPERT: Well, first of all, this is obviously overkill. And the shoe was really a deadly weapon. If you, for example -- let`s say you`re holding the shoe by the heel and hitting somebody with the sole of the shoe. There`s force, but it`s not going to do much damage, because the pressure, the force is over a fairly large area. On the other hand, if you`re holding the toe of the shoe, and you strike hard, all of that force from that stiletto heel is exerted on a very small area.

And if you put any kind of force behind the blow, you`re going to easily penetrate the skull and entering one and a half inches is not a surprise. It can be used as a deadly weapon. Perhaps we should license stiletto shoes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s why I wear flats, Dr. Kobi.

Now, we don`t know exactly what happened between Ana and her boyfriend the night he was killed. So we decided to ask an expert on stiletto self- defense, yes there is such a thing. How she thinks the incident unfolded. Watch this. We taped it less than an hour ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know what happened. But to find out, we went to an expert. Alana from Stiletto Spy School -- they teach women how to defend themselves with shoes. You have a theory of the case. Take it away.

ALANA WINTER, STILETTO SPY SCHOOL: I think she got him down on the ground and she probably was standing with one foot on, one foot off and got to do it like this -- bam, bam, bam.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying that if you have one shoe in your hand and one shoe on your foot, you`re like supercharged?

WINTER: You could totally do it with both your stilettos on, but I`ve got much more power. And given the time it was, they were home. I think she probably was taking her shoes off, he came at her, she had one shoe on her hand, one shoe on the ground and was able to get an excellent stomp like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I remember the old days, when women got mad, they would pull their shoe off.

WINTER: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right?

WINTER: That`s right because this is a really deadly weapon. This is the same as a knife. It`s called a stiletto based on a knife that`s called a stiletto which is thin, bladed and pointy just like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at that. That is a deadly weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re joined tonight by Alana from the Stiletto Spy School. Great demo Alana, you use stilettos for good. You have actually told me about a woman who saved her life by using a stiletto to slice an attacker`s face. These are potential killers -- Alana.

WINTER: Yes, Jane, they definitely are. Larry was right. The force you can get with that really sharp point is really intense. So, whether you`re standing and stomping with it or using it in your hands as a weapon; my girlfriend uses it to hammer nails into the wall. Stilettos are really powerful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, an excellent demonstration. I know you use stilettos as a force for good and self-defense. So we want to make that clear. Stiletto Spy School -- I may take a lesson myself.

You`re probably wondering why I have this melon on my desk in front of me. We`re going to do a demonstration on the other side -- demonstrating this vicious crime. And let`s see what happens. I don`t know. Haven`t tried it yet.

Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Upon arrival the officer rang the doorbell and the defendant, Ana Trujillo, answered the door with blood on her clothes and on her hands. The victim appeared to have about ten puncture wounds to the head, some being one to one and a half inches deep. He had 15 to 20 other puncture wounds along his face and arms and neck.

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JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: He lifted me up. He body slammed me again on the tile. I rolled off to my left and began to run down the hallway, and I could hear him follow -- I mean I could hear his footsteps chasing me. I remembered where he kept the gun, so I grabbed it. And he ran, chasing me. And I turned around and pointed it at him.

He went like that and he turned his head and he grabbed my waist. As he was lunging at me, the gun went off. He was getting on top of me. So he`s grabbing at my clothes and I got up and he`s just screaming angry. He said, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you, bitch.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re calling this the Jodi Arias syndrome, because it marks a trend perhaps, which do occur in criminal justice cases where one set of lawyers, they hear a case and say that`s a good idea. Remember garbage in, garbage out. That started with O.J. Simpson.

Well, now it`s the "oh, I killed him in self-defense" defense. Now, to give you an idea of what this woman is accused of, this woman, that woman you just saw there, ok. Police say she took her stiletto heel and punctured this man`s head ten times. Now, we have a melon here, because this is the closest thing we could find to demonstrate something that would be like a skull. Now, look at that. That is a -- when I first did this, I thought oh, it`s not going to go through. But then when I did it with maybe feigning a little rage, this is an extraordinary, extraordinarily violent crime.

I`ll just do it one more time. There it is. It`s totally -- see nothing there. So imagine doing that 30 times into somebody`s skull. That poor man right there, who is now deceased and imagine the pain.

I just got to go to Dr. Kobilinsky briefly -- the pain.

KOBILINSKY: No question about it. This is an extremely painful trauma undergone by the victim. I have to tell you, though Jane, that watermelons don`t bleed -- victims do, humans do. And in fact, a lot of this story is going to come -- it`s going to be very clear. When we look at the blood spatter, it`s going to give us some information about whether the relative position of the assailant and the victim, whether the victim was standing or prone on the ground, there`s going to be a lot of information.

This is very bloody, because the head, the face, the neck are highly, highly vascularized, and this kind of trauma is going to have a lot of blood.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tanya Young Williams, you`re a celebrity spokesperson for the national domestic violence hotline. There seems to be a trend here of women making a mockery out of the self-defense issue. Now, if this possibly is -- I don`t want to convict her, let her have her day in court. But we know that Jodi Arias certainly made a mockery of the self-defense issue, and that`s why so many people reacted so horribly.

Is this a trend in criminal justice now that women are basically saying I killed him with an overkill, 30, 40 stab wounds -- here it`s up to 30 puncture wounds with the stiletto and saying it`s self-defense?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ADVOCATE: Well, hi Jane. First I would like to say, I don`t think this is a trend.

There are vast differences between the Jodi Arias situation and what we hear here. Jodi Arias decided to speak of self-defense after two lies to the police that didn`t work. This case, we have a witness, a neighbor who heard fighting, therefore we have the presumptive to believe this woman was in a dangerous situation and we should not jump to judgment until we hear all the facts. Her situation is very, very different than Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.

YOUNG WILLIAMS: As a woman and an advocate against domestic violence, I first want to hear her side of the story before I jump to say you know what -- she`s making it up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Yes, I agree with Tanya. And you don`t know really what happened in this case. There`s not enough evidence that has come forward yet. We do know that they were arguing in the bar as the reporter talked about. They were drinking and there was some arguing and we did hear from a neighbor who said that she had mentioned to him that if anybody ever messed with her, this was going to be the type of injury she was going to hit -- so I mean so we`re willing to hear what`s coming out.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. Drew Findling -- Drew.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let me tell you, clearly there`s no trend, because why do you want to follow Jodi Arias who just got convicted at trial? There was probably 50 other self-defense cases going on in the country during the Jodi Arias case. So this is a kind of defense that`s around since time immemorial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I know Joe Episcopo wants to get a word in. We`re going to get to him right on the other side. And we`re taking your calls.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Bronson -- regal, he`s out on the moors, roaming -- roaming the moors. We love Bronson. Ernie, he says I`m down to earth kind of guy I just like liking hanging around the house with my friend. Hunior -- Hunior -- do you know a Junior. And there`s Daisy. She says I`m just a perfect little girl, I never do anything wrong. No, not at all.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allie what are you doing down there?

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: The classic stiletto scene from "Single White Female" from Columbia Pictures. This is from WDTN, a stiletto attack caught on tape -- apparently it happens. It`s not aberration. The stiletto thing does happen.

Joe Episcopo, criminal defense attorney out of Tampa, what would you do, getting back to this woman -- this woman, what would you do if you were this woman`s attorney.

JOE EPISCOPO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all she`s not going to have a very good self-defense argument because she doesn`t have any marks on her. She really went overboard in the so-called self-defense.

And you know, I never really thought about this stiletto thing until this case. I find the shoes quite attractive. I mean I actually ask my girlfriends Meg and Karen to wear their red stilettos tomorrow night when they come over to see me. But now --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you better behave.

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EPISCOPO: Well, you know, I`m going to have to ask them to take their shoes off before they come in the door.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

EPISCOPO: So you may have saved my life but you ruined my date.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, say it`s the carpeting. Well, you know, we`re laughing about it but this is really a tragedy. There`s a man who`s dead who died a very painful death, Tanya Young Williams. This was absolutely excruciatingly painful.

YOUNG WILLIAMS: Well Jane, first of all if you look on the Internet and read chats, women are talking about this all of the time, about if you have to defend yourself using your shoe, using your stiletto -- it`s common conversation. The intent is not to kill someone, it`s to defend yourself.

And I would venture to say that when we wait for the evidence to come forward we`re going to find out that she might be just telling the truth. What I find also very interesting is there`s no autopsy back yet and we`re making big decisions without really knowing what`s going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I agree with you. Let`s not convict her. She deserves her day in court. More on the other side.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: In this Houston killing this professor was stabbed up to 30 times with a stiletto. We`re demonstrating what might have happened with Alana from Stiletto Spy School. Alana, 30 times could that possibly be self-defense?

WINTER: Jane, it`s really, it`s so hard to know what kind of rage this woman might have been experiencing, what kind of fear she might have felt in the situation. It seems like a lot but if she hit him a few times, normally on the street what you would like to do is be able to just get away. I don`t know whether she felt that she couldn`t get away or she had so much fear built up inside of her. We won`t really know until we get more of the evidence from the case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And by the way, this gentleman was ok. He was part of our demonstration.

It`s crazy, it`s a terrible case and it`s a fascinating case and we`re going to stay on top of it.

Nancy next.

END