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Arias Jurors Make Major Announcement; Trust Fund Kid on Trial; 911 Call Key To Zimmerman Case
Aired June 18, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias jurors make a major announcement right here. They will reveal what they`ll do this week at a hearing for the convicted killer. It is seconds away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a woman that killed herself in the bathtub. She`s drowning. She`s unconscious.
PINSKY: The 911 calls that alerted police to a grisly death at an exclusive New York City club. Do they expose the identity of the killer? A behavior bureau will dig into that and surveillance tape of the suspect who didn`t know people were watching him.
And was a superstar of the food world publicly choked by her husband?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
Coming up, the 911 call that exposed the death of a New York fashion designer. And in just a minute, two of Jodi Arias` jurors are here with a surprising announcement. First off, though, their dilemma of which came first. The stab wounds or gun shots, check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: She made sure that Travis Alexander did not go gently into that hot afternoon back of June 4th of 2008.
Was he alive at the time that all of these stab wounds took place?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I believe he was.
MARTINEZ: Was he alive when he was stabbed in the heart?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Was he alive when he was being stabbed in the back of the head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Was he alive when he was being stabbed in the back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: How about was he alive in your opinion when his throat was slit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MARTINEZ: Can you tell with regard to the gun shot wound to the temple whether or not he was alive or not at that point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, there`s a wound going through the head and I don`t see hemorrhage in the brain.
MARTINEZ: If you don`t see hemorrhaging or bleeding as you talked about, is that an indication that the person was already dead?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They may have been, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Shanna Hogan is an investigative reporter and author of the upcoming book on the Arias case, "Picture Perfect."
Shanna, what do you have for us tonight?
SHANNA HOGAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Thanks, Dr. Drew.
We can report today that Thursday`s conference hearing will go on as planned. That`s at 8:30 a.m. local time, 11:30 a.m. Eastern. The judge is going to allow camera coverage although it won`t be live. We`re hearing that`s going to be very short, but Jodi should be there. It should be very interesting.
PINSKY: Thank you so much, Shanna.
Joining us, Sirius XM Radio host Jenny Hunt, attorney Darren Kavinoky, host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery, attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar.
Darren, I understand you -- I believe we have -- is Jenny in this panel too? Jenny`s there also.
Darren, I understand you and Anahita do not see eye to eye on the death penalty portion of this phase.
Anahita, you go first.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Yes, Dr. Drew, I can see why many people think the state should take death off the table, offer Jodi Arias the plea deal. I mean, this has cost Arizona taxpayers millions of dollars. It`s taken an emotional tool on everybody.
I think what`s crucial here is really what the Alexander family wants. And they`ve made it clear that they want death for Jodi Arias. And let`s not forget, 12 of those jurors unanimously found Jodi Arias guilty of first degree premeditated murder. Those 12 jurors found that it was also the cruelest form of murder.
And under Arizona law, that is a death penalty case. I think the state quite frankly has an obligation to move forward with the death penalty. And we already know, Dr. Drew, the way Martinez is so passionate about this case, I think taking death off the table would essentially be a loss for him, a concession. And I just don`t see him doing that.
So I think the state needs to push forward and retry the case.
PINSKY: Darren, you disagree.
DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, I`ve got a different take on it. At some point it becomes less about justice and more about winning. And I get that passions run high. That all of America and much of the world was rallied against Jodi Aarias. We all were calling for her head, figuratively.
But lady justice is blind for a reason. And that is sometimes to protect us from ourselves. The death penalty is supposed to be reserved for the worst of the worst. And I can`t help but wonder as heinous as this crime is, is this really the worst of the worst?
SEDAGHATFAR: But at what point do you think the wishes of the family should be considered, Darren? At what point doing the wishes of the family should be respected? I think that`s what`s critical here.
Look, I`m a defense attorney. I`ve gone on the record over and over again presenting Jodi Arias` defense. But I think once those jurors have spoken and they have, that this was the cruelest form of murder and you take that with the other victims in this case which are Travis Alexander`s family, I think the state has an obligation to honor their wishes.
PINSKY: Darren, finish up with your thought.
KAVINOKY: Yes. They`re a factor to be honored. But the jurors in Arizona spoke, and they spoke loudly and said we`re 8-4 deadlocked. That`s enough. And to spend the millions of dollars -- there are plenty of school kids in Phoenix who would prefer that that tax money go into school lunches and other programs.
Yes, we understand that the family wants that feeling of retribution, but that`s just not what the justice system is about.
PINSKY: Speaking of deadlocked, you guys are deadlocked.
SEDAGHATFAR: We`ll continue this battle later, Darren.
PINSKY: Yes, exactly.
KAVINOKY: To be continued.
PINSKY: Joining me now, I want to hear from the horse`s mouth, Jodi Arias jurors, Marilou Allen-Coogan and Tara Kelley are here.
Ladies, our viewers have taken to social media to guess why you`re here tonight. We made the deal that you have an announcement. And immediately, of course, social media takes off with that.
Here`s what Cathy C. says. Quote, "They`ll all be appearing on an episode of `Glee`."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
PINSKY: I`m quoting social media.
Charlene S. says, "The jury foreman dated Jodi?" Is that what you`re here to announce?
And finally, perhaps "They found Hoffa`s body." That was Marilyn R. who went to come out with that one.
I don`t think it`s any of those. Nothing crazy like that. But you do have a plan on the calendar for Thursday. Thursday has come up this evening.
Marilou, why don`t you tell us and why you want to be there.
MARILOU ALLEN-COOGAN, JODI ARIAS JUROR (via telephone): I do plan on going to the hearing on Thursday. I feel like I need to see this through as much as I can with my home schedule and work schedule. I just feel like I`m invested.
PINSKY: Are the rest of the jurors going to go with you?
ALLEN-COOGAN: Not all of them, no.
PINSKY: Tara, you`re going though, is that correct?
TARA KELLEY, JODI ARIAS JUROR (via telephone): Yes. I`m with Marilou. We are invested. You know, it`s not as exciting of an announcement, suggestions. But, yes, me, Marilou and Diane will be attending. Those are the three we know for sure.
Again, we were fully invested in the trial, and we want to continue to see it through to the end.
PINSKY: What do you expect to see in the courtroom? Tara?
KELLEY: It seems like it`s going to be pretty quick as far as I`m guessing that the judge is going to finally rule on the defense`s motion to delay the trial until January which is ridiculous. But I`m guessing that we`re going to have an answer to that motion.
PINSKY: Now, Marilou, there`s some information that you mentioned to my producers that I found rather surprising. Apparently, the jury was almost deadlocked on the first degree murder decision, right? Is that correct? Can you tell me about that?
ALLEN-COOGAN: I wouldn`t say we were almost deadlocked. There were definitely open minds. There was no predetermined assumption of her guilt when we went into that room. We debated all of it, every aspect of it. The felony part, the premeditated part, we did all of that.
PINSKY: And we heard some testimony in a tape a few seconds ago about the sequence of the -- what Jodi`s alleged to have done in terms of the stabbing and gun shot. Did your experience as an E.R. nurse affect your or factor into your decision? Or was that all just incidental as well?
ALLEN-COOGAN: No. With what I`ve been exposed to in my training in my career, just the sheer brutality of the murder was very apparent. It was evidenced by the crime scene photos, the autopsy photos. And for me that brutality was underscored by the Dr. Horne`s (ph) testimony.
PINSKY: Jenny, you want to comment?
JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: I do. I just want to say regardless of what the judge decides in terms of whether she`s going to extend the trial or put the trial at a later date or not, I just hope that everyone`s checking in with the family. To see the family still wants to push for the death penalty, that each day they`re sort of checking or each week they`re checking, because who knows what time`s going to bring for them.
Certainly, they`re always going to hate Jodi and I find what she did unforgivable, of course. But perhaps they`ll want it over and done with and want her locked up forever never to speak to anybody. Maybe that`s what they`re going to be happy with rather than continuing this.
PINSKY: And, Samantha, you want to follow on with something?
SCHACHER: I wanted to just ask, are Tara and Marilou still on the phone?
SCHACHER: I wanted to ask them, you know, they mentioned that they`re really invested in this case. Have you had trouble adjusting back to your normal life pre-Jodi Arias? Because your lives have changed completely.
PINSKY: Tara, let me ask you first and then, Marilou, then we got to go.
KELLEY: Yes. It`s been a big adjustment trying to get back to normal as far as people always wanting to talk about it. It takes awhile to open up about it. So, it`s definitely taking some time, but I`m finally getting there.
ALLEN-COOGAN: Same here. Yes. For me, it was not being able to sleep well, which I guess kind of works since I work at night. But, yes, we`re getting there. We`re not there yet, but we`re getting there.
PINSKY: Are people wanting to speak to you about this out in the community? Do people want your thoughts or do you want to talk about it? Or are you tending to withdraw?
KELLEY: Well, there`s definitely a lot of questions from people in the community that know us or don`t know us. You know, I like to talk about it, because I didn`t get to deliberate. So once the trial was over, that`s when I first got to talk about it.
PINSKY: Got it. Marilou?
ALLEN-COOGAN: Yes. And you still have people talking to me about it. I feel the need to talk about it. I think I will until I have gotten into my pretrial frame of mind, if that ever happens.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, guys. Thank you for joining us again. We look forward to your thoughts after Thursday.
Next up, more surveillance video from the night a New York fashion designer was killed. Can you actually see in this tape that a murder is about to take place? We`ve got some analysts who might think so.
And later, actually hear the 911 call that led to her boyfriend`s arrest.
We`ll be back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pain is so terrible.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A young beautiful swimsuit designer allegedly murdered at a private club by her own boyfriend.
PINSKY: Nicholas Brooks is charged with choking and drowning her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had marks internally, but not on the outside of her lips, which indicate that someone put their hand over her mouth.
CHO: A series of surveillance photos taken from video of that club just may back it up. Cachay`s body was found submerged in water in a bathtub.
PINSKY: At the exclusive Soho House.
PINSKY: And tonight compelling testimony from the employee who escorted her to her room just minutes before she died. What Sylvie told her that had the courtroom riveted and in shock.
Back with my co-host Samantha Schacher.
Nicholas Brooks is the trust fund kid -- although you`ll find out he no longer had access to his trust fund. He`s on trial for killing his girlfriend Sylvie Cachay. She was found strangled and drown in a bathtub.
Attorneys are still with us. And now, joining us, behavior expert Patti Wood and attorney Anne Peyton Bryant.
Anne Peyton Bryant is attending the Brooks murder trial in support of the victim`s family.
Peyton, what did you observe in court today?
ANNE PEYTON BRYANT, INSIDE BROOKS COURTROOM: Today, we heard from people on the videotape. The female employee who escorted her to her room, and they had a heart to heart on the bed. She said she just took a shower because Nicholas Brooks just set a fire in her apartment. She was exhausted.
PINSKY: Hold on, Peyton. Hold on. There`s a lot of stuff here.
So, let me get this right. So, this is a hotel employee that carries her belongings up to the room. The employee sits on the bed with her and has a heart to heart conversation?
BRYANT: She does. They talk about how Mr. Brooks was a stoner and he had put these two candles at the head of her bed and it was really careless and she was set up with him and wanted to end the relationship. She had just taken a shower --
PINSKY: So he knocked the candles over and set their bed on fire and that`s why she was carrying bed clothes and pillows. That`s why she came to the Soho House. Is that right?
BRYANT: That`s correct. Her entire bed was charred. We`ve seen that in the evidence in the courtroom already.
SCHACHER: Wait. She took a shower. Am I hearing she took a shower? Why did she take a bath later?
BRYANT: There`s no reason later why Ms. Cachay would take a bath. That`s the point here. Let alone in a turtle neck and with an expensive watch.
She came to the Soho House that evening to get a good night`s sleep before work. And from everything we`ve seen if you watch that video footage, she does not look like she`s getting along with Mr. Brooks. In fact, the employee who came from the hotel desk up to her room heard fighting coming from that room that evening, and heard Sylvie`s voice abruptly cut out.
That`s the last thing we hear of Sylvie Cachay. And then, a few moments, two floors down they`re getting complaints of water leaks before Mr. Brooks leaves the building.
PINSKY: Before he leaves the building but after he`s out in the hall on the surveillance cameras, is that correct?
BRYANT: That`s correct. You see him pacing up and down the hallway.
PINSKY: All right. Yes. I want to look at that. I want to look at those tapes. Put those up.
Patti, I want you to comment on it. You`re the expert in behavior and whatnot. You mentioned last night how we see him touching his hair, looking at himself, checking (INAUDIBLE) that he`s there. Go ahead.
PATTI WOOD, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Yes, and wiping way that look of guilt. Do I look guilty? Doing a self-comfort cue, you know? So, it goes all the way to the back of the head. He`s holding his head trying to comfort himself in that situation.
And you see in the videotapes he keeps going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. What am I doing to do? How am I going to deal with this? What am I going to do?
PINSKY: OK, hold on. I want to see the check-in footage. Can you take us to where he`s checking into the hotel? My understanding is, Patti, you had some very acute observation of what he was doing at the registration desk.
PINSKY: Why don`t you walk us through it? There it is.
WOOD: If you see at the other video has his full body position. And his feet are --
PINSKY: Now I`ve got him -- patty, I`ve got him hugging a pillow. He`s hugging a pillow.
PINSKY: What is that about?
WOOD: That`s fear. And think about little kids and how they draw comfort from the teddy bear. The same thing, he`s holding that over his ventral front. That`s the most vulnerable part of the body.
But, also, look at the way his feet are planted far apart. Normally, I read body language from the feet up. The feet are the most honest portion of the body. That`s an aggressive warrior stance. But there`s the dissonance there between that and the fear he`s showing.
So, to me, it`s saying, he`s made a decision and he`s going to argue, he has a plan himself. But he`s afraid of that decision, the --
PINSKY: Patti, I love the interpretation of his body positioning and whatnot, but how about this?
PINSKY: He is afraid of what he`s just done at the other apartment.
PINSKY: He`s burned a bed down. He`s afraid his girlfriend is going to leave him, which he`s been threatening to do for a while. He`s taking a -- planting his feet to fight this off.
PINSKY: But I wouldn`t put that as somebody is going to go commit a murder.
WOOD: You see, the aggressive stance is interesting to me in juxtaposition with the fear. So, he`s both planted, I`m going to have to deal with this horrible situation, and he`s fearful at the same time. That to me shows that he is absolutely confused and doesn`t know what he`s going to do.
All right. Let me talk to the attorneys, because here`s my question to you guys. If this is your client, you`re the defense attorney. You`ve got some explaining to do.
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, yes. Dr. Drew, you know I`m a firm believer that every defendant is innocent until proven guilty.
PINSKY: Stop it. Stop it. Yes, yes. Enough already.
SEDAGHATFAR: No, this is going to surprise you. I think everything about this case looks bad. You have this girl who`s found dead in a bathtub in her hotel room, fully clothed --
PINSKY: With her Rolex watch on, with her turtleneck on, having just taken a shower.
SEDAGHAFTAR: Exactly. Right. And now the employee is testifying she had just taken a shower. Why would she be taking a bath?
And now, we have motive, Dr. Drew. For the first time this employee is testifying there was a reason why this guy could have killed his girlfriend, because she was going to break up with him. They just got into a huge fight.
The prosecution doesn`t need to prove motive, but jurors like to hear motive. They want to hear the full story. And now they have it. I think this testimony really sealed his fate, Dr. Drew. It might shock you.
PINSKY: Who`s that, Peyton? Go ahead.
BRYANT: Yes, seven of her friends have testified. And even earlier that day that she wanted to end this relationship. She wanted to change the locks on her house. She was fed up with this guy. Unquestionably she wanted to end it. She`s now telling strangers, the hotel employee, that she`s done with this guy. He just set a fire in her apartment. She had work the next day. Why would she be taking a shower?
SEDAGHAFTAR: Do you have motive now? I think that`s very important.
PINSKY: Four ladies on this panel, how many have had bad breakups? Show of hands. Back breakups, everybody? Come on.
PINSKY: Come on. Bad breakups. A former, our ex, somebody is going to kill us, no matter how bad the break is. So, we got to have a behavior bureau come in and tell us what made this guy different. What are they speculating about that.
But, Darren, I want to give you last word. I know you could have defended this guy.
KAVINOKY: Well, look. The facts are not great, Drew. Let`s be realistic.
PINSKY: Oh, really?
KAVINOKY: You got basically two ways to go. Clearly he`s at the hotel, right? So either he`s not in the room at the time of the death, or he was there and did it but it`s excusable for some reason like either insanity, self-defense. Frankly I need to know more to see what direction I would want to go in a case like this.
PINSKY: I also -- yes.
KAVINOKY: If you want to pick a side, the prosecution seems to have the better reason to view on this case. I think conviction is a likelihood. By the way, I love being able to label him the trust fund kid even though he doesn`t have access to the money. It`s just short for you hate this guy.
PINSKY: I`m going to bring that up in the next one.
WOOD: That`s true.
PINSKY: Hang on. Behavior bureau is here. And they`re going to break this down. Later we`ve also got 911 calls from the night Trayvon Martin died. Why those were so important. We`ll be back in just a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want justice done. But nothing will bring back my baby girl. We always wanted to help people, always. And she thought that she could change him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time for the behavior bureau. Back with my co-host Samantha Schacher.
Joining us, attorney Jenny Hutt, behavior expert Patti Wood, psychologist Wendy Walsh, author of the "30-Day Love Detox", and criminal investigator Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal".
There it is. We just heard Sylvie Cachay`s mom confirm what this panel and behavior bureau has said all along. Sylvie wanted a project in this guy. She didn`t want intimacy. He was a bad boy. We went through all this yesterday.
Go ahead, who`s talking? Jenny?
HUTT: Yes. I don`t think she was saying for sure that Sylvie had to have a project. I think she was saying that her daughter was compassionate, wanted to help people. And that it sort of came from the nurturing place. It`s just a ridiculously horrible set of circumstances, Dr. Drew. It`s just incredibly sad.
SCHACHER: Listen, Dr. Drew. I can relate to a lot of my friends have come to me in the past, saying they wish they could change this or that about their boyfriend. I think at the end of the day, she stated they had chemistry and she hoped he would become the guy she wanted.
HUTT: Wendy, Wendy, Wendy. Help me with this. I think she needs a love detox, as a matter of fact. I didn`t expect to say that this evening, but there we are.
Women do this all the time. And here it can be dangerous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
WALSH: Very, very dangerous. I think what happens is, as you know, Dr. Drew, when people get involved in a sexual relationship before they`ve built all the emotional skills, before they`ve built all the conflict resolution skills and the communication skills, they get into the delusion that the sexual chemistry is love.
So, therefore they can enter very dangerous relationships. And then they`ve sort of bonded themselves to a loser, if you will.
PINSKY: Jenny, I see you doing jumping jacks but I have to go to Danine first, because Danine deals with this stuff all the time. So, Danine, go ahead, then we go to Jenny. Go ahead, Danine.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I want to clear up a misconception about this case. She was not about to break up with him. I know it, he knows it, she knows it. The guy sets her bed on fire and they check into a cushy hotel so she can break up with him? I mean, who does that? Who checks into an expensive hotel with a guy to break up with him?
She wasn`t about to break up with him. They were going to scold him like her child. And move on.
PINSKY: Jenny, go.
HUTT: OK. Wendy, you know I adore you and think you`re one of the smartest people certainly on Drew`s panel or everywhere, but that sexual chemistry thing is unbelievably powerful. And find me one girl who`s going to look at the guy she`s dying to be with in that way and say to him we really need to get intimate on a mental level. I really need to know what you`re about.
HUTT: It happened like that with the young kids today.
WALSH: Oh, now, you`re making a big generalization about young kids today when 25 percent of college students are still virgins. So, be careful there.
There`s a wide range of sexual behaviors in both genders, and we shouldn`t say everyone is on the hook up culture.
PINSKY: I`m going to lock you guys in a room to have this one out.
Jenny, you always wanted us to frame this in the way parents should talk to their kids about.
HUTT: Yes, sure.
PINSKY: This is an opportunity to talk to kids about connection, intimacy, stability, assessment, before you get going with somebody. But I want to show Patti something. Here`s more of the hotel surveillance tape from the night Sylvie Cachay died.
Let`s go it. Patti, we looked at the stuff, we talked about him looking in the mirror. He`s at the elevator now. Anything going on here new?
WOOD: Actually, look -- actually, he crossed his arms. He bends over. I have seen the full tape. Bends over at the waist.
When you`re highly stressed, the cortisol level goes up, the adrenaline goes up and you want to vomit. And here, he`s symbolically saying I`m going to throw up. I need to throw up. And you notice he went to a private space to show his true feelings that he wanted to throw up. This, to me, is the most revealing part of all the surveillance footage.
PINSKY: I agree with you. Just think about what people do when they, oh, I`m so upset. Here, he is also waiting for the -- was that him waiting -- that`s this particular -- it`s him waiting at the hotel elevator. I think we`ve just seen that one. Give me the next one. Give me the next one. Let`s see it again.
What I want to talk to you guys -- there he is again waiting for the elevator. We`ve seen this one a number of times. I want to go around the horn here and ask each of you, what is it about this guy -- a lot of loser guys out there, a lot of girls get involved with guys they shouldn`t be involved with. Why do we speculate? What is it about this guy? Is it anybody that has any idea why we would speculate that this kid would become a murderer? I`ll start with you, Jenny.
JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Well, first of all, I think his family`s history isn`t really in his favor, Dr. Drew. His father who happened to have killed himself after he was on charges for, like, 12 sexual assaults?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Thirteen.
HUTT: Thirteen. OK. So, there`s some sort of biological sad situation.
PINSKY: Or maybe environmental, but go ahead. Next Patti. We`ve got to make this kind of quick. Go ahead, Patty.
WOOD: Highly emotional. She described him as a man boy. And we see that. I see that in the way he`s carrying himself and his nervousness, his anxiety, the way he holds the pillow. So, that might have been very appealing to her. That man boy.
PINSKY: Super emotional Danine.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Dr. Drew? I don`t think it`s something he had any intention on doing.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., AUTHOR, "THE 30-DAY LOVE DETOX": I think that he just lost it and went for the neck and started choking her. Dr. Drew, I think long before his father was charged with sexually assault with, you know, 12 or 13 counts of sexual assault, long before that, that father sent all kinds of messages into that sweet little head as he was growing up about how to treat women, how to regard women, how to objectify women, how to be aggressive with women. And I think he got all kinds of programming early in his life from that father.
SCHACHER: Yes. Purchasing prostitutes for your 14-year-old son is not going to help your kid to look at women in a valuable way. Give me a break.
PINSKY: I absolutely agree. Danine, I want to hear again what you said. Say that one more time.
MANETTE: I don`t think he had any intention on doing this. I think that he was a child who lost control in a fit of rage because he couldn`t get his way and this was the result of a temper tantrum gone violent. I really believe that. I don`t think that he meant to do this. I just think that he just lost it because he`s a child. He`s a child --
WALSH: And fueled by drugs.
PINSKY: Well, you`re right. He was certainly intoxicated with alcohol. The police report of that. They held off on interviewing him until he sobered up a little while.
Next up, got the 911 call that led to a murder charge. Back after this.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," our first bold question for our jurors, our potential jurors, was George Zimmerman a good neighbor?
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: All right. Not only that. Once we saw that one, we`re going to talk about would George Zimmerman have called police if Trayvon Martin were White? Now, you mentioned potential jurors. We`ve got 12. We`re going to get down to six before the show is over.
POLITAN: Which six will make it? You`ll find out top of the hour. "HLN After Dark."
PINSKY: I am back with my behavior bureau and my co-host, Samantha Schacher. And now, to the 911 call. Let`s listen as an employee of the Soho House in New York City alerts authorities to what at first does not necessarily appear to be a crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a woman that killed herself in the bathtub. She`s drowning. She`s unconscious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s breathing, though, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. She`s not breathing. We found her in the tub. She`s not breathing. We`re trying to -- one of the night managers is trying to resuscitate her and she`s not breathing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Peyton, I want to bring you back into this conversation. You were in the courtroom today. Someone who called 911 testified. Can you tell us about that testimony?
ANNE PEYTON BRYANT, INSIDE BROOK`S COURTROOM: I can. One of the individuals you`re seeing in the videotape that checked her in is who you`re hearing on that tape. He got water complaints before Brooks left the building. And they went through the hotel looking for where the water was coming from. They got those complaints two floors away from their room.
And when they finally got to their room and they went into the room, the water in the tub was on full blast. And he and the other individual got Miss Cachay (ph) out of the tub and tried to perform life saving measures on her.
PINSKY: Peyton, one other thing. My understanding is her physician testified today. And I saw the list of medications that she was on. One of the things I`m often called upon is to make a judge about the kinds of meds that somebody`s on. And she was on a very sophisticated good therapy. The doctor repeatedly reported the she was an excellent patient and follow through properly.
So, this idea that she overdosed or that she was abusing substances, to me, just that testimony, you can really read through it. No way. No way. Do you agree with me?
BRYANT: I completely agree with you. And I can also tell you that this woman was extremely successful. Her swimsuits were featured in "Sports Illustrated." The doctor testified that she`d been her patient for three years. She had fibromyalgia and migraine headaches and she was a model patient. The very idea that Sylvie Cachay (ph) would be any kind of an irresponsible patient has not come up anywhere in this case.
PINSKY: Well, but people hear those diagnoses and they hear medication, they go, oh, maybe she was abusing. No. I`ve looked at the med she was taken. It was a very sophisticated combination. Not addictive. Not being abused. Thank you, Peyton.
I want to talk now about Nicholas Brooks having showed Sylvie Cachay (ph) a website that he used for hiring prostitutes. Now, my understanding is that he had no money. His trust fund was cut off as of March 2010. So, Samantha, how did this alleged prostitutes habit get sustained and what was he showing his girlfriend?
SCHACHER: I don`t know, Dr. Drew. I don`t know how he was able -- obviously he was using her money because she was supporting him.
PINSKY: That`s what I`m wondering. That`s what I`m wondering.
SCHACHER: So, I mean, I don`t know what he had to tell her to use her money in order to purchase the prostitutes. I don`t know why he even showed her in the first place.
PINSKY: Yes, it`s very weird.
SCHACHER: Not the smartest guy.
SCHACHER: Not the sharpest tool in the shed.
WALSH: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Wendy, you have a comment. Go ahead. Wendy, go ahead.
WALSH: Yes. Remember that e-mail where she said I`m going to call the police and tell them I didn`t approve these charges on my credit card. I`m sure he was using her credit card. And I will tell you the reason that he was showing her these women, because in this part in culture where we`re in -- we`re one-third of all content on the internet is porn, so many guys think, oh, I`ll get my girlfriend into this. Let`s find a girl for us, honey. She can come over.
PINSKY: Oh my.
WALSH: And I think he was --
WALSH: OK. Most.
PINSKY: This guy is in all of that.
WALSH: No. This particular brand of guy, mark my words. He tried to get her into a threesome.
PINSKY: You seem to know something there, Wendy. It`s interesting.
PINSKY: Danine, you sit in so quietly. I know you`re stewing with this material. Give us something.
MANETTE: This guy is a train wreck. And it`s just as though she`s an overindulgent parent who wants to just spoil this child to keep him happy and keep him safe or whatever it is that these parents do and he`s just gotten out of control. And, I don`t think that she didn`t know that he was using her card for these charges.
I just think that she was doing that to keep the relationship going, because for some reason, this relationship as dysfunctional it is to anybody else who`s looking, it worked for them. It worked for them.
PINSKY: That`s another behavior bureau. We`ll have to do that, but I want to give Patti and Jenny a chance. You both are nodding your head vigorously. Patti, go ahead.
WOOD: Well, I think, there`s another symbolism here. We`ve got this burning bed that predicated it, what came before they went to the hotel. Can you imagine the stress and the trauma of coming from your bed being on fire and then going into this hotel room? The stress of that, we haven`t really discussed how that might have created a lot of tension in this relationship.
PINSKY: Yes. It`s very true. Jenny, finish this off.
HUTT: OK. I`m just going to say I think this is a lesson that probably all of us will agree with, which is if he guy that you`re dating is showing you pictures online of the prostitute that he`s also using, it`s time to break up with him.
WOOD: I would agree with that.
WALSH: I agree.
PINSKY: Jenny, hold on. Jenny, stop. Wait until he burns your bed down, then you break up with him.
HUTT: All these things.
PINSKY: And give him your credit card first.
PINSKY: Hold on.
WALSH: We`re not blaming the victim, though.
PINSKY: If you have a question anyone out there or comments for the behavior bureau, tweet us @DRDREWHLN.
Next, the 911 calls from the night Trayvon Martin died. Exactly who is yelling for the help? They were in court today.
And later, a celebrity chef in tears. Her husband`s hand around her throat. Was it playful as he claims? Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re talking about the 911 recording where there`s this -- you`ve heard that tape yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Voices in the background. They say no, that`s George. No, that`s Trayvon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which side do you come under?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I find it hard to believe to tell which is which.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you think he`s yelling help?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What is --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember there being -- do you remember what the take was on that in terms of other than determining whose voice it was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The point that I remember it, they hadn`t determined who that was.
PINSKY: Back with our co-host, Samantha Schacher. Of curse, that was an edited version of the 911 call. So, who was screaming on the tape? George Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman claims self-defense. The prosecution claims it`s Martin yelling for help. The defense says it`s Zimmerman. Expert testimony will undoubtedly come in, I suspect.
The judge has yet to decide whether he or she will allow it. Joining us is Michael Skolnik, editor-in-chief of GlobalGrind.com. He`s on the board of the Trayvon Martin Foundation. Crystal Wright from ConservativeBlackChick.com, attorney, Darren Kavinoky, and Shahrazad Ali, author of "Are You Still A Slave?" Shahrazad Ali, how would you like me to address you?
SHAHRAZAD ALI, AUTHOR, "ARE YOU STILL A SLAVE?": Miss Ali is fine.
PINSKY: Miss Ali is great. OK. So, I`m going to start with Darren. The voice on the 911 call, who does it help?
DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY: Well, it depends who the jurors decide that voice is. Obviously, if it`s Trayvon Martin who`s calling for help, then that helps the prosecution, because that would show that George Zimmerman is the aggressor, that he`s hunting him down.
If, of course, it`s Zimmerman calming for help, then that helpsthe defense, right, because then it gets to his being in fear, he`s calling for help and that would tend to support the justifiable use of deadly force.
PINSKY: OK. Darren, I --
KAVINOKY: This is the $64,000 question.
PINSKY: Right. I think so, but Michael, I wonder if you agree with that? Does it really make any difference?
MICHAEL SKOLNIK, EDITOR, GLOBALGRIND.COM: It makes a big difference. But I think in this situation, the defense has not shown an expert on their side yet who`ve said it`s George Zimmerman. All they have shown is experts who refute the prosecutors` (ph) experts who say it`s Trayvon martin,
The defense has shown nothing. They can`t even pay somebody to go out there and say it`s George Zimmerman`s voice. They have nothing on their side that prove it`s George Zimmerman. Two experts have come forward already and say it`s Trayvon Martin`s voice.
PINSKY: Miss Ali, a lot of people are saying this has much to do with how Trayvon sort of presented himself. What he was wearing and that sort of thing. Do young people of any color need to be worried about that?
ALI: Well, we`re living in a country where men dress up like women, women dress up like men, and Black young people they want to dress just as silly as everyone else. And so, they want to wear their pants hanging down and the hat on backwards and the hoodies and so forth. And to them, it`s a fad. But these things pass and I think I have to take it back to the parents again.
We, as parents, we fail to do our job in a certain way in this country, because we haven`t told our children that they live in a hostile environment and that there are people out here waiting to kill them for any reason. And so, I think that, you know, that maybe if we did teach them more about how to dress and present yourself because you can`t dress in certain ways to go and apply for a job.
You can`t dress certain ways, you know, to get into college. And so, there are requirements on a dress standard.
PINSKY: Let me go to Crystal and say -- now, is that a parenting thing? Is that an issue of color? Where does that fall?
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: Well, it`s a parenting thing how young men and women dress. And I agree with Miss Ali that, you know, parenting has gone by the wayside. And the fact is when young Black men have images from rappers in Hollywood with chains hanging around their neck, hoodies, calling women you know whats and hos, wearing pants where we can see their boxers.
That`s unacceptable if you`re Black, White, Chinese, purple, green. I don`t care if you`re a Martian. Dressing like that is not going to get you a job, which we know then enables you to participate in society. It`s not going to get you into college. It`s a lack of parenting, but I also think it`s because we now have left society without rules and anything goes.
PINSKY: OK. Now, you guys got to hold your thoughts. Hang on. I have to go to break. You must stop. Is it okay ever to be prejudicial? I`m going to put that question to the panel. I also let them respond in we`ve heard, so far.
And later, a superstar in the kitchen, and now, her husband`s in hot water. We got to go quick to break. Be right back with this panel.
PINSKY: Gentlemen, I`m up against the clock. Darren, then MICHAEL, then Miss Ali responds. Keep it quick. Darren, go.
KAVINOKY: Yes. Look, we`re collapsing two different -- very different issues here. Of course, people should dress appropriately for job interviews and the like. And that`s just good parenting. But it`s irresponsible to suggest that somebody should be a crime victim or is more likely to be a crime victim because of the way they were dressed.
PINSKY: Got it. Got it.
KAVINOKY: People have freedom to express themselves.
PINSKY: Michael. Michael.
SKOLNIK: -- what he was wearing was menacing is absurd. George Zimmerman profiled him based on what he was wearing and the color of his skin. If Mark Zuckerberg was walking through Sanford with a hoodie on, George Zimmerman would drive and wave to him and said hello.
PINSKY: Miss Ali, spank these boys.
ALI: Well, we want Zimmerman --
KAVINOKY (ph): Please.
ALI: We want Zimmerman convicted for the crime that we think that he did, but it was a killing that didn`t nobody see. Black people killing each other all day long in every community in this country. And the whole neighborhood see it and don`t nobody tell. So, we`re using killing like the "N" word. It`s OK for us to do it to each other, but we don`t want anybody from outside our community to come in and do it, because then -- all no justice, no peace.
PINSKY: Crystal, finish this off.
WRIGHT: Here`s the thing. No, let me finish here. Nobody said anybody should die by the way they`re dressed or the color of their skin. And the last time I read about this case, it was dark at night. So, how did George Zimmerman know what color skin Trayvon was?
SKOLNIK: He said it in the 911 call.
ALI: This is why we can`t make any progress with this.
SCHACHER: Can I please say something really quick?
PINSKY: Samantha, go.
SCHACHER: A hoodie does not equate with us (ph). A guy with tattoos does not equate to somebody that`s a criminal or deviant.
PINSKY: Hold on.
SCHACHER: So, we`re supposed to govern people on what they wear?
PINSKY: Hold on. Miss Ali, finish it up.
WRIGHT: Can I say something?
ALI: This is why we can`t make any progress on this topic, because every time we discuss this issue about race in America, people don`t tell the truth. We have always been territorial about our communities.
ALI: We have been practicing stand your ground in the Black community way before it was made a law.
PINSKY: Guys, I want you all back tomorrow night. I`ve got to take a break. Crystal, I`m so sorry. I`m dying to hear what you all are saying, but it`ll be tomorrow. "Last Call" is next.
PINSKY: Star from the World of Food, Samantha, is making headlines from very public dust-off with her famous husband, Nigella Lawson. He appeared to be choked -- she appeared to be choked by him. We`re watching this case. I know i said I`d talk about it, but we are out of time, you guys. So, we`ll bring it up again tomorrow, give you more details.
Samantha, thank you again. Thank you to all my guests, and of course, thank you all for watching tonight. Lot of interesting conversation. We`ll see you next time. "HLN After Dark" starts right now.