Return to Transcripts main page


Mystery of Missing Toddler; Death Of A TV Icon

Aired June 20, 2013 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, baby Elaina. Where is she? Our behavior bureau has some theories.

Plus, Jodi Arias stare-down. Who was the convicted murderer shooting daggers at today?

That person is here to describe the face-off.

Then, Robert Zimmerman exclusive. The brother of the man who killed Trayvon Martin gives me his last and only interview until after the trial.

And one of James Gandolfini`s friends and "Sopranos" cast mates is here to tell us about the late, great actor. And this tragedy should be a wakeup call for all of us.

Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.

Here we go now, 18-month-old Elaina Steinfurth disappeared three weeks ago. The baby`s mom behind bars for child neglect. Tension between and amongst family members has reached a boiling point.

Take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eighteen-month-old Elaina Steinfurth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing for over two weeks now.

NANCY GRACE: Last seen taking a nap but just minutes later, she`s gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say, go get, Elaina for me. She refused.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After two hours the fighting between the mom and the dad and her ex-boyfriend --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She came back outside and told me the baby wasn`t in the house, the baby was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six to eight people may have been inside that house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody knows something, somebody has to talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of those people know anything about her disappearance? B.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody seems to be wanting to be truthful, particularly this mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t feel that mother is acting like a mother that has lost a child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby was injured at one point. She was aware of it, and did not seek medical attention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby had a black eye, dried blood, a bump on the head.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police arrested the toddler`s mother Angela Steinfurth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter was in her care at the time that this happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said when she woke up, the baby was already like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want her home in one piece.


PINSKY: All right, now, if you`re like me trying to keep track of who all the key players are is difficult.

So, let me try to lay it out for you. Obviously, Elaina is the missing baby. Angela, who you just saw on that tape, is the mom. Terry Jr. is Elaina`s father and the estranged husband. Stephen King, Angela`s ex-boyfriend from whose house baby Elaina disappeared. Terry Sr., who you`ll hear from in this program Elaina`s grandfather. Richard Schiewe, Angela`s stepfather.

My goodness, it`s quite a web and there`s a lot of tensions amongst them.

Sam, have you been following this case?

SCHACHER: I have, and the more I hear the details how Elaina was raised, the more, Dr. Drew, I`m concerned that something very terrible happened.

PINSKY: Right. And I agree. I think it was the stepfather, somebody in that last tape was saying, somebody knows something. There`s no doubt in my mind that somebody knows what`s going on here.

SCHACHER: Right. A baby doesn`t just walk out of a house.

PINSKY: No, she don`t.

Joining us, behavior bureau, Sirius XM radio host and attorney, Jenny Hutt, clinical psychologist Cheryl Arutt, criminal investigator Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal," and Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "30-Day Love Detox."

OK. Samantha, my understanding is, I`ll start with you again. You have a theory about baby Elaina. Is it -- well, let`s hear your theory.

SCHACHER: I`m suspicious of Stephen. I`m sorry, why was Stephen so aggressive when Terry came to get baby Elaina? Why did he bounce out the back door? I -- and then we see how he lived. His living conditions with dog feces on the floor, overflowing toilets?

I`m sorry, Dr. Drew, maybe you can tell me. But a normal, coherent person doesn`t live that way.

PINSKY: How dare you, Sam? I don`t know what you`re suggesting. You cannot judge, we cannot be a judge of other people.

SCHACHER: But I`m insinuating, is there drug abuse? I mean, you would know. Does a normal person live that way? Come on.

PINSKY: No, that`s a sign of something going on. Squalor is a sign of something going on.

Wendy, you`re nodding your head?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I`m nodding because I`m confused about the relationships here. Here we have a baby daddy, estranged husband she`s married to, but yet she`s sleeping at not her boyfriend`s house, her ex-boyfriend`s house, where a number of people have been in the house. Is this a stable environment for children, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: No. Two kids. We`re going to hear from the grandfather in the next segment, who`s over there, Richard, the gentleman`s had a laryngectomy. He`s going to tell us what he`s observations where of that household. Now, Elaina`s father and Angela, Elaina`s father, Angela`s stepfather were together on "NANCY GRACE" this week. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say, go get Elaina for me. She refused. Her boyfriend decided for some reason he wanted to basically start yelling and screaming like he wanted to fight, ripped his shirt off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She came back outside and told me that the baby wasn`t in the house, the baby was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not there? For one person to be in jail and the other people out, people are having a good old time about this. It`s not just about my daughter, it`s about everybody.


PINSKY: Jenny, you have a comment about this?

JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: Yes, first of all, I`m so sick inside. So, I`ll start with that. Missing babies, it`s just -- I`m not confident that this baby is OK. I think the tell for me is that the morning of her supposed -- of her disappearance, which I think is probably going to end up a murder, she had a black eye, supposedly, and dried blood under her nose, supposedly. There was no medical attention given. Her mother Angela did not seek medical attention, and I believe that`s part of the child`s endangerment charges.

I just -- somebody knows something for sure. Maybe Stephen`s role is that he hit the kid? I don`t know. But it`s heartbreaking.

PINSKY: It seems bad.

Danine, you have a comment about this? Go ahead, Wendy.

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: It`s so upsetting. I have so little tolerance and patience for mothers that cannot take care of their children and cannot protect their kids from danger.

I see this all the time. It`s just that we carry them in our wombs, we nurse them from our bosom, and I just have absolutely no patience, no tolerance, it sickens me.

PINSKY: I always like to try to learn something from these awful stories, bad as they are. There is a headline for people out there that are sliding down this slope?

MANETTE: Well, I mean, if you`re in over your head, you need to find a way to get some help. And I`m wondering whether or not there was some drug issue involved here. She went from what seemed like a clean, stable place to a place that was absolutely filthy and the guy tearing his shirt off wanting to fight. That sounds like a little bit of drug behavior to me, I don`t know.

PINSKY: And yet we have pictures of her now where she`s not --

HUTT: I don`t think, you guys, I don`t think any of it looked super stable. I don`t know why you think she came from a stable --


PINSKY: That goes without saying, but we`re trying to know how dangerous.

Let me just say, Cheryl, I go to you. A couple of things. A, I`ve seen the court records on some of these family members and there`s quiet quite a lot going on there, it`s all around alcohol. So, it may just alcohol, number one.

Number two, she doesn`t look in that footage you saw there a few seconds ago, put that up real quick. She doesn`t look like somebody who is detoxing right now. She`s relatively only sort of new, a few days into jail. She looks like somebody who`s appropriately distressed by her circumstances.

Cheryl, what do you think?

CHERYL ARUTT, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think she may be detoxing. There may be addiction issues here. There may be other cognitive issues here. But the biggest problem I see is aggression, which can be fueled by substances and other kinds of things. Every member in this family seems to have trouble --

PINSKY: Look at this. Look at this, look what happened outside the courtroom today. Angela`s stepfather and Elaina`s dad went at it, take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quiet, let him open up his mouth and he`ll go to jail.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, just keep it down. You`re being recorded, everything you say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get him away from me. I`ve got a restraining order against him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You already getting a restraining order for terroristic threats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had his mouth going when we first come in.


PINSKY: That was Terry in the red, we`ll be speaking to him in a few minutes.

Jenny, restraining orders against one another, not really clear why. But go ahead.

HUTT: OK. Clearly, Terry is visibly upset. My concern is Angela -- I mean, I`m a mom. My kid gets a broken arm, I`m brought to tears. If my kid was missing, quote-unquote, "missing", you`d have to pick me up off the floor. I don`t think you could pick me up off the floor.

It`s not that I`m judging her reaction for the sake of the reaction, I just -- I think she knows where the baby is.

PINSKY: Yes, and if the child were dead and she had been dealing with that for a few days, now has to hide that grief, you might look just like her.

Next up, baby Elaina`s grandfather is here, as I said.

And later, a "Soprano" actor who worked with Mr. Gandolfini is here to discuss that man`s life and what a great, great friend he was to many.

Back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll tell you right now, you won`t have to ask me, Stephen did, Stephen and Mike, took that baby. That`s where they`re at. That`s who`s got that baby.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lives in that house.


PINSKY: Back at the behavior bureau.

Samantha Schacher, I want to put the family tree back up on the screen here because I got that wrong. The gentleman you saw was Terry -- Richard Schiewe, who had the laryngectomy. I thought we were speaking to him. We`re speaking to other grandfather Terry, in just a second.

Before we go to him, I`ll read you a couple of interesting tweets from the panel. This is from (INAUDIBLE), "Your panel needs to get out in the real world. As early intervention provider, I saw deplorable conditions daily." And I`m going to show some condition in a minute where this baby was living.

The other was @bonniegirl (ph), "#behaviorbureau, #babyelaina, her mom only shed tears for herself, no tears for this precious child, not a mother for me."

Very powerful stuff, very powerful feelings. Particularly from women this story is generating.

You guys want to comment before I go to grandpa?

SCHACHER: Really quickly, that`s an interesting tweet because she has talked about her bail bond and about the cost of her being in jail rather than really her concern for where her child is.

PINSKY: She knows the child isn`t here anymore.

Danine, go ahead.

MANETTE: God, I`m not sure about the get out in the real world comment, because I live in the real world, streets of Oakland every day, in people`s houses a lot of them are filthy like that, it`s unacceptable there and here. So, I don`t know what the real world comment is all about.

PINSKY: Twitter`s a kind, embracing, loving environment.

MANETTE: Oh yes.

PINSKY: Was that Cheryl talking to me, oh, Wendy. Wendy, go ahead.

WALSH: It`s Wendy. Dr. Drew, I have got a medical hypothesis that I want you to confirm for me or not. What about, hypothetically, if this black guy and eye black, and this, you know, blood around the nostrils was indicative of concussion? Then put the baby down for a nap, could the baby have died while napping and now, they`re just figuring out what to do with the body?

PINSKY: Well, they probably didn`t know what happened, but it`s really, it`s typically -- either a subdural and intracranial bleed into the brain. Babies have very delicate tissue around the brain, bleeding can developing, shaking the baby, hitting the baby. There`s bleeding, crushes the brain and the baby doesn`t wake up as you`re saying, Wendy. It`s a catastrophe when that happens.

Let me go to Elaina`s grandfather Terry Steinfurth, Sr.

Terry, we`re sort of preoccupied with Stephen, the ex-boyfriend. Is he -- do you think he`s the guy that knows something here?

TERRY STEINFURTH, SR., ELAINA`S GRANDFATHER (via telephone): I`m not really sure who in the house knows anything. I`ve said from day one there were five people in the house that I know of at the time. And somebody has to know something. And somebody has to talk. And until they talk we`re not going to find the baby.

PINSKY: Are you applying pressure? Is that why emotions are flying so high? I imagine if this were my grandchild, I`d there at these people a bit.

STEINFURTH: We`re -- we`re going out searching for the baby in different areas. We`re not really -- we`re not starting arguments with their family, with Stephen`s family. We`re not trying to start arguments with Angela`s dad. We`re just staying by ourselves, more or less.

PINSKY: Terry, weren`t you sort of -- I`m going to show my audience the living conditions where the children were staying. But weren`t you stunned by them? In fact, while he answers this, why don`t we show this tape -- dog feces on the utility room floor. Watch this.

Terry, were you not stunned by where your daughter had taken these children?

STEINFURTH: When I walked into the living room and I looked into the bedroom where she told me the baby was sleeping and I saw all the clothes all over, I looked at her and I said, you had the baby sleeping in this pigsty? Is exactly what I said.

PINSKY: What`d she say?

STEINFURTH: She didn`t answer me. That I recall.

At the time I glanced into the living room. I glanced into the living room, I glanced into the dining room where Stephen`s father was at, and then myself and my son went back out front to call the police to find out where the baby is.

PINSKY: How did your son react? Weren`t you guys sort of beside ourselves?

STEINFURTH: Yes, I was -- I was kind of -- I was shocked, I guess you could say. And I just -- I saw it, I couldn`t believe it. And I was more worried about where Elaina was at.

PINSKY: I get it, I understand.

Jenny, go ahead, you want to ask a question of Mr. Steinfurth?

HUTT: Your son is baby Elaina`s dad, correct?



HUTT: Was this the first time that the kids had been staying at this Stephen King`s house?

STEINFURTH: No. They had stayed there before. She had, I guess --

PINSKY: Were you concerned like us that there`s drugs and alcohol involved with this?

STEINFURTH: Yes. But at the time, I didn`t know it.

PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting. That`s interesting.

STEINFURTH: I didn`t really know Stephen.

PINSKY: Wendy, go ahead.

WALSH: I want to know what is this relationship with Stephen? At one point he`s referred to as her ex-boyfriend. Then I hear your son in a sound bite refer to him as her current boyfriend. Does this guy have a job? Who is he? What`s his social life?

STEINFURTH: That I don`t -- I don`t really know, to be truthful with you.

PINSKY: Don`t you want to know?

ARUTT: I`d like to ask something.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Cheryl.

ARUTT: Well, it sounds to me like this particular Stephen King may be running his own personal horror show out of this house. How are you coping with this? How are you dealing with the not knowing? What are you doing to get through this?

STEINFURTH: We`re -- we`re having search parties go out of our friends and we have Justice for Nevaeh come down and helping us look. And I`m still keeping a positive thought that hopefully we can find the baby alive somewhere. That somebody actually has the baby.

PINSKY: Terry, nothing would make everybody happier. We all pray for that. That would be a fantastic end to this story.

But oh, man, this doesn`t look good, my friend, I`m sorry. Thank you for joining us, Terry. I do appreciate it. Thank you to the panel.

If any of you have a question or comment for the behavior bureau, tweet us @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau.

Next up, Jodi. Jodi Arias in chains. And who was she staring down in court? Guess what, I`m going to bring that person that she was giving the stink eye to there, that person will be with us exclusively.

Also, Robert Zimmerman about his brother George. We`ll talk about thoughts of suicide that, well, several of the family members may have had, despair, isolation. His only interview for months to come.

Back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what`s going to happen to her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think she`s -- I hope she`s not that cold-blooded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what happens if she`s found guilty?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, she`ll be sentenced for however long they decide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the rest of her life, probably.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. That`s not up to me.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host Samantha Schacher.

That was a rather clairvoyant statement on Jodi`s mom`s part asking about her daughter`s fate back in 2008. Today`s hearing lasted 43 seconds and ended with as much of a big question mark. Here`s a quick clip.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The court is deferring ruling on the motion to continue, resetting this matter to July 18th at 8:30 a.m., vacating the current trial date of July 18th.


PINSKY: Lauren Lake and Jenny Hutt are back. Joining us as well, two of Jodi`s jurors, Tara Kelley, she was number 17, an alternate, and Diane Schwartz, juror number 7. They were both in court today.

But, first, quickly out to Shanna Hogan for the latest.

Shanna, what have you got? Is Shanna there?

Not there. OK, I`m going to you guys.

Tara, I believe when Jodi came out in all that prison garb, Jodi caught your eye, is that right?

TARA KELLEY, JUROR: That`s correct.

PINSKY: What happened?

KELLEY: Well, we actually were seated one row behind the family of Jodi. So it was her mother and two other people that were with her. Travis` aunt had went to the back with Juan Martinez, I went and sat in her seat to talk to the friends that were over there. And as Jodi started coming back in from judge`s chambers, I realized she was coming in so I stood up to walk to my seat. Halfway through when she was walking, she realized I was there and we locked eyes and she continued to stare at me until I was able to go sit down and join the other two jurors, who then she looked at them as well.


PINSKY: Creepy, yes.

Diane, was it the usual emptiness that so many of the Travis` friends had described or something a little more hostile there?

DIANE SCHWARTZ, JUROR: I felt a little bit more hostility. But there was a real emptiness. I mentioned to Tara later, did you see how black her eyes were? Extremely black. But she definitely looked at all three jurors. It was very apparent.

PINSKY: Now, as you look at this video, when she goes around, you`re going to see how deeply -- they`ve got her in shackles, a big leather belt around her. Is that -- do we have other footage of this or do we have other footage? Under that blue bar you can see she has this huge leather bar around her waist, her hands are shackled to the bar.

I mean, does she need, Lauren, does she -- is she dangerous that way that she needs that kind of shackling?

LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Drew, absolutely. And not just the danger factor. The flight risk factor as well. I mean, she could potentially plan an escape. This girl has been known to be capable of a lot of things and is not trustworthy.

Also, she`s been on suicide watch so she could potentially harm herself or someone else. She`s also one of the most-hated women in America. So this is in the interest of the public and also defendant.

PINSKY: Jenny, got something to say?

HUTT: Sorry, I`d like to say something. What happened to the woman who at her allocution was saying sorry for what she caused, was sorry for the Alexander family, that girl was angry.

PINSKY: Jenny, you may be shocked to know this Jodi Arias woman shocks and distorts things.


PINSKY: Very shocking I know to hear that.

HUTT: Dr. Drew?


HUTT: She gave up the act I feel like. In that 43 seconds, she was angry. She was nasty. She gave up the act.

SCHACHER: Saw the true Jodi Arias.

HUTT: Yes.


PINSKY: Diane, tell us about the gesture that Travis` aunt made for you guys.

SCHWARTZ: It was very, very nice. We were -- the bailiff had seated us. Travis` aunt put her arms around me and she said, you can sit with the family, we`d love to have you over there. And then she gave a great big hug and she said, thank you for your service. That was worth being there for that.

PINSKY: That`s nice.

SCHWARTZ: That was a real heartwarming feeling.

SCHACHER: That`s nice.

PIUNSKY: That is nice. You guys I know all had a lot of ambivalence that you had let the family down.

Lauren, I want to ask you something. What do you think the defense attorneys felt when they took a look at our jurors? If you were the defense attorney how would you behave? Then we`ll hear what they saw.

LAKE: Well, you know, if I saw the jurors there and I`m sitting in the defense position, of course, you`d know that these people are very attached to this case. And you`re thinking to yourself, oh, well, this isn`t looking good for my defendant, is it going to throw my client off, is it going to some way affect the outcome?

But at the end of the day, the defense walked away today with a little more time.

PINSKY: And ladies, Tara, what did you see when Jodi`s lawyer saw you?

KELLEY: Well, we actually had seen Kirk Nurmi standing with his security female that was with him before the courtroom even opened. And as soon as he saw us, he pretty much looked disgusted seeing us there.

PINSKY: Diane, you had the same feeling?

SCHWARTZ: He -- I didn`t really look at him or try to interact with him at all. I felt that I wasn`t there to watch him and so I really didn`t interact with him at all.

PINSKY: Before we wrap this up, Sam, did you have something you wanted to say?

SCHACHER: I wanted to know when you were sitting with the Alexander family, how did they appear? How were they holding up, did you talk to them?

KELLEY: We actually went and had breakfast with his aunt and some of their friends.


KELLEY: They`re holding up, you know? It`s frustrating that it`s being delayed again for the hearing. But you know, they`re troupers, they`re hanging in there.


SCHWARTZ: I felt the same way.

PINSKY: Any word how Samantha`s doing?

KELLEY: I know that they said they were definitely keeping track of -- you know, keeping her, you know -- they`re trying to help her out as much as possible. But it seems like the family is trying to move on in their normal lives until the next hearing and everything starts again.

PINSKY: Great.

Ladies, as always, really appreciate you being here. And thank you to the panel.

Next up, Robert Zimmerman reveals his family`s pain in the year since Trayvon Martin was killed. This is his only interview until the trial has completed.

And later on, a "Sopranos" insider is here to celebrate the life of James Gandolfini.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the late hour at night, those times alone, those are the times that the breakdown comes.


VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up top of the hour, "HLN After Dark," the second part of my interview with Trayvon Martin`s father, Tracy Martin.

Also, coming up top of the hour, a bold question for our jury. Will women convict Zimmerman? Six women sitting in judgment of George Zimmerman, but does this jury of mostly women think the women in Seminole County will convict George Zimmerman? A verdict by the end of the program.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was looking for my phone. And he just punched me in the nose. And I fell backwards and to the side, somehow I ended up on my back. And I felt him take one hand off my mouth and slide it down my chest. And I just pinched his arm and I grabbed my gun and I aimed it at him and fired one shot. He kind of sat back and said, you got me.


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher. George Zimmerman`s brother, Robert Zimmerman Jr. is here with us tonight and we will talk about their family, their relationship, Trayvon Martin, and how events have affected all of them. This, a reminder, is his only and final interview until after the trial.

Joining us as well, Lauren Lake, Jenny Hutt, Wendy Walsh, and of course, Robert Zimmerman Jr. Panel, I`m going to ask you to sit by for just a second here then we`ll jump in with your questions. Mr. Zimmerman, thank you so much for joining us. What exactly is your relationship with your brother now? Are you guys close? Are you together? Tell me what that relationship is like.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S BROTHER: Well, good evening, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me. I was asked that actually by the state of Florida when i was deposed and I described George as the closest person to me. I think what is essential between brothers is trust.

And the best example I can give is right before this happened, our grandmother was hospitalized and George called me and he arranged for me -- for my transportation in Florida so that we could take care of her. She`s a very important person to us and it`s the same thing I`m doing right now during the trial. I`ve advocated for George as best that I could.

Now, this is in the hands of the jury, of the justice system, and it`s important that his parents and other family members can advocate for him as well. And since we take care of our grandmother as a family, I know that George wouldn`t want anyone else in the world to do that. And if I were in his shoes, I would absolutely trust him to do the same. He did the same thing when our dad had heart attack just days before this, arranged for me to get to Florida.

He slept in the hospital every night with dad. And I ran the household, as it were, so that our mom could be by her husband`s side. That`s the kind of family we are. We come together in times of crisis. And George is very much the same way.

PINSKY: OK. We`re looking at a lot of pictures alongside of you of you two as children. And you look like you were close growing up. I beg your pardon, we don`t know each other, but I`d heard rumors that lately you were estranged from your family. Do you want to set that record straight?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. There was a statement my father made to one of George`s attorneys who is not representing him anymore. Dad was trying to protect me, to insulate me, and said that I would not have anything further to add since I didn`t live in Florida at the time. The news being the news did what they did with that.

I think NBC`s Torre (ph) was the one who kind of got that ball rolling with Piers Morgan somehow suggesting that I hadn`t seen or spoken to my family in ten years. It`s absurd, it`s nonsense. Like I said, we were together three or four nights before this happened, discharging our dad from the hospital and seeing to his welfare at home.

PINSKY: And, also, you spoke to some of my -- one of my producers and told him how terrorized you and your family were by when this -- what happened after this all went down. Can you describe what that was like and how much despair you, yourself, expressed?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. I think, you know, initially, when this happened, it was tragic. It was -- that`s the best word to describe it. That`s how we felt all of us. The mood was somber in our family. I think after March 7th when the false narratives started coming to life and twisting the story and race started getting injected, that`s when the terror set in. And shortly after, the Black Panthers would be hunting for George. The police would tell me my home was not safe.

Spike Lee (ph) would tweet someone`s address he thought was my parents` and alter that family`s way of life. Roseanne Barr (ph) would go on to do something similar to our parents, and we would all essentially become homeless, on the run, in and out of hotels so that people who would harm us or people who were out rallying in the streets, very disrespectful at best messages about George would not find us or hurt us.

And we have been ID`d, I have been several times, not just in Florida, but in Washington, too. And it`s put me in a very awkward situation.

PINSKY: OK. I want to give my panel -- we just got very limited time here. We`re against the clock. But I will continue this with the panel after we get back. But Lauren, do you have any questions for Mr. Zimmerman?

LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Yes, Robert. I wanted to ask you. You say you`re close with your brother. And people have described him as having a vigilante-type personality. And I want to know if you agree with that, and if not, if you could just shed us -- for us some light on what he was like growing up. What was his personality like?

ZIMMERMAN: You know, I`ve heard even Dr. Drew throw that kind of terminology around -- cowboy or, you know, try to get inside George`s head without even knowing him. And it`s not just Dr. Drew, but it`s a lot of people who are relying on that element or introducing that to make that false narrative make more sense in the vacuum of evidence and in the vacuum of the results of an investigation that was actually happening despite what the NAACP and others would say.

I think growing up, George was my little brother. And I was his big brother. We are very well-known in our community. I think when the media found out about people who knew us in our community, they would use the term collectively "the boys." We were altar servers together growing up. We were two young men who spoke Spanish who were bilingual in our community.

And at that time, that was a rarity. So, we always had that in common, that we were the product of a biracial love story. And, you know, enjoyed doing things brothers two growing up, normal things that any brother would do.

PINSKY: OK. You guys, I`ve got to take a quick break. Hang in there. We are here with Robert Zimmerman, Jr. We`ll have more with him in just a second.

And later, James Gandolfini`s friend and fellow "Sopranos" star is here to tell us about the actor and his friends, his life, his loves after this.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher and George Zimmerman`s brother, Robert Jr. Jenny, go ahead with your question.

JENNY HUTT, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: OK. First of all, Robert, thank you for being here as well and I`m sorry that you`ve experienced cyber bullying. Nobody should have to experience any bullying anywhere. So, here`s my question. It`s been reported that you`ve said that you don`t believe that your brother should have even been arrested.

Had the circumstances been different and Trayvon had been the one to pull the trigger and your brother had been killed, would you have not wanted Trayvon arrested either?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I think what I`ve said and I`ve been very clear is the law, the statute as it stands, suggests that self-defense is not something we criminalize. And, you know, I think what you`re asking when you say George versus Trayvon is you`re saying what Mr. Crump (ph) and others who have been spinning this false from the beginning is if race were reversed.

And I would say no. In the exactly same set -- exact same set of circumstances, an arrest was inappropriate because a crime was not committed. It was an act of self-defense. And again, it`s not something we should criminalize in our society. It`s something we have a right to.

PINSKY: Hey, Robert, before this episode, was George ever the object of other victimization or violence?

ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely not, no. And you know, I`m glad you brought that up, because the FBI, themselves, have been looking far and wide. They`ve interviewed many people, looking not only for signs of violence or being a victim of violence or a perpetrator of violence, but including, you know, racism or even racial innuendo in his past life. And it went beyond just the local investigation to the state police, to the FBI. and there`s no there there.

Despite what you might hear from attorneys for Mr. Martin`s family who used race to perpetuate this false narrative after March 7th. There`s no there there. And that`s why we look forward as a family to George finally being able to clear his name 16 months after this happened in a court of law.

PINSKY: Wendy. Wendy, go ahead.

WENDY WALSH, PH.D., AUTHOR, "THE 30-DAY LOVE DETOX: Well, you know, you talked about the isolation you had and sort of having to be on the lam as a family, staying in hotels. Do you feel safe yet and what are you doing to, you know, keep yourself mentally healthful, if you will?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I`m signing off-camera for tonight and that will keep me safer because it will keep me out of harm`s way. I won`t be in studios and I won`t be traveling. To keep my mind healthy, we pray. We spend as much time together as we can as a family. I remember years ago, Anderson Cooper had an interview with Oprah Winfrey about his brother`s suicide and that was always something that stuck out in my mind as, you know, looking forward.

April 11th when George was arrested, I just prayed to God that George would be stronger than something like that. And he has been. And, it`s not something to suggest he ever contemplated it, but if it was something that I had even thought of --

PINSKY: Did you?

ZIMMERMAN: I don`t think that contemplation is the word. I think it`s something that had never crossed my mind before. I think it was desperation, not seeing a way out, you know, trying to have some kind of life for myself in D.C. But there`s marches and rallies and protests outside my window all around me and signs suggesting my brother`s a racist or a murderer.

And really, it looked like there would be no way out except for the prosecuting attorney that came from Tallahassee to have made the right call and explain to the people that the investigation that was happening was valid, that there was no crime here, and that despite whatever anybody`s race is or is not, that the law should have been followed and no one should have been charged with a crime.

PINSKY: OK. Robert, thank you for joining us. Robert Zimmerman Jr., thank you, sir. Thank you to the panel. Reminder, Vinnie Politan will speak to Trayvon Martin`s father immediately after our program on "After Dark."

Next for us, a "Soprano`s" cast member pays tribute to his good friend, James Gandolfini.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher. "Sopranos" star, James Gandolfini, died suddenly yesterday potentially of a myocardial infarction, heart attack with sudden cardiac death. His good friend and "Sopranos" castmate, Arthur Nascarella is here. But first, I want to play a clip from the "Sopranos," HBO`s "Sopranos."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I talked to John. The scooters came in. But there was no opportunity to grab them because of increased security at the ports.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus Christ. The young crowd is crazy for these scooters. He -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


PINSKY: Arthur, thanks for joining us. I want to tell people about your pedigree. You were a marine, then 20 years in the NYPD, and then started acting in the middle of life. And you ended up on the "Sopranos." I mean, who would have thought. And, tell me about your first meeting with James.

ARTHUR NASCARELLA, GANDOLFINI`S SOPRANO`S CASTMATE: I came on to the show right at the beginning of the fourth season. It was right after the "Soprano" fans, I`m sure you remember, that series of shows that dealt with the horse racing business. And I met him right at the beginning of that time. I guess, it was around 2004.

They brought me out to a hotel out in (INAUDIBLE) and I went down to the bar. I have a pop (ph) and Jimmy was there. And we had a drink together. And I referred to him as goguts (ph) which an Italian means squash. And it turned out that he liked that very much because it`s what his dad referred to him as many times.

So, it was the genesis of our friendship and it lasted all through the shooting. I did 43 episodes and we remained friends right up until --

PINSKY: Arthur, you just have -- you have described goguts him as a generous man. Tell me about that.

NASCARELLA: I`m sorry, sir. Would you say that again?

PINSKY: I said, you have described goguts as a generous man. Explain that.

NASCARELLA: Yes. Look, he`s a generous actor, generous gentleman. A lovely, lovely man. I`ll cut right to the chase (ph). Everybody will tell you the same thing. He`s a wonderful, wonderful fellow. I`ll give you some specifics as it relates to myself. Going into the end of the show at the beginning or the second half of the ninth season, I was probably the lowest paid guy on the show, which was fine with me.

I probably would have done it for nothing. Jimmy was not happy about that and decided to take over my negotiation and wound up getting me a three-time salary raise. For the last nine shows, I made three times the money that I made for the other 43 shows. He put me in line to do all nine of those shows.

I managed to -- and doing them all, it was a prerequisite for consideration for the Screen Actor`s Guild Award which was the actor which I did and was fortunate enough to win. And I was presented that out in L.A. with a number of the other cast members, ensemble kiss the trophy. And on a third note, I have a very beautiful 18-karat gold watch. At the end of the show, James bought, I`m going to say, roughly 20 of these.

The back of the watch is inscribed, "Sopranos, 1999 to 2007, rest in peace. Thank you. JG." And that`s just a brief summary of the kind of guy he was. I mean, just as good as they come, as fun as they come, and talented. I had known a number of -- by virtue of the fact that I was a police officer, I had known a number of real life connected people, and I never really realized, I didn`t compare them James` character and them until I saw Jimmy in "God of Carnage" on Broadway.

He invited my wife, Vickie, and I to see him in "God of Carnage". And remember, I had been with him for four years day and night, and all of a sudden, I saw this other guy doing that role. And I realized for the first time what an unbelievable actor he was, because the guy on stage was not Tony Soprano by any stretch of the imagination. He was an entirely different person. And I think really, really was the first time it struck me like a bolt of lightning what an absolutely phenomenal actor he was.


PINSKY: Thank you for sort of bringing him live to us. I will think of that clock -- that watch, rather, and the inscription on the back, and the RIP, which is unfortunately strangely, eerily clairvoyant. But thank you so much for joining us.

Sam, next up, I want to get in to a little bit about heart attacks in the "Last Call."


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Samantha Schacher. "Sopranos" actor, James Gandolfini died of an apparent heart attack yesterday. He was 51. And I want to thank, again, Arthur Nascarella, for bringing him to life and telling us about his relationship with what was clearly a genius and a generous man.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: So kind, so humble, didn`t seem like fame affected him.

PINSKY: Now, Sam, here`s what I want to get into. There was a chance to talk about modifiable health factors and heart disease. Just a quick primer on what a heart attack is. Everybody, can you throw up a little screen for me of what a heart -- of a heart. See those vessels on the surface? The red ones? Those are arteries.

And when a clot forms in one of those because of narrowing from cholesterol deposition, that vessel shuts off and all the heart muscle downstream then dies. When it dies, it can become electrically irregular and discharge in ways that cause the heart to stop. And that appears to be what happened here. A sudden cardiac death.

And so, when that happens, the risk factors, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, early family history of heart disease, diabetes, tobacco. Please people, diet and exercise, no smoking. If you have high cholesterol or high blood pressure, get it treated. You cannot wish that away or eat it away or exercise it away. I tried myself.

Thank you so much, guys. Court was dark in the Nicholas Brooks trial. We`ll be back Monday with the latest. "After Dark" starts now.