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NSA Leaker Likely Heading To Ecuador; Duchess of Cambridge In Final Weeks Of Pregnancy; Lebron James Getting Married; The Red Panda Recaptured

Aired June 24, 2013 - 15:29   ET


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: About bottom of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You know, it's turning out to be the best kept secret for the man known for spilling his secrets, his location. Edward Snowden, charged with espionage, is the target of this worldwide manhunt that crosses hemispheres, tangles diplomatic ties. As the U.S. is searching for him, he is seeking asylum. Look at this map with me just to see where he's been thus far.

First, he left Hawaii for Hong Kong reportedly back on May 20, then yesterday took this flight to Moscow, according to Russian officials. And he was able to leave Hong Kong reportedly by using refugee papers issued by Ecuador, which may turn out to be his final destination, maybe.

Where is he now? We don't know. Snowden may have missed an earlier flight to Cuba. But it's not 100 percent clear he even got on the plane. We had a CNN photographer on board not able to spot him in the cabin. But that doesn't mean he isn't on board somewhere else on this plane.

Here's what we do know. We know from Ecuador's foreign minister that Snowden has applied for asylum there. And to get to the South American country, speculation is that Snowden will land in Cuba for a stopover.

Mike Baker, let me bring you in, a former covert operations officer with the CIA, bringing you back on this story, because I'm wondering just what options might -- does the U.S. have to physically grab, go find him, track him down, grab Snowden, and bring him back to the U.S.?

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICER: Well, I mean, Brooke, the fact that we seemed unable to exert sufficient pressure on the Chinese authorities, you know for awhile, you don't want to talk about Hong Kong as some sort of separate entity. But it's the Chinese authorities. The fact we couldn't exert that pressure on the Chinese authorities to have him returned tells me there's no chance this administration unilaterally is going to try to nab him wherever he may be in a third country. I don't see it happening.

BALDWIN: So, you don't see it happening, because a number of us on our team this morning, we started thinking, by no means are these two men wanted for all the same thing. But we started to figure out Pakistan and Osama bin Laden. We remember the special ops. Remember, SEAL team six swooping in. We didn't even tell Pakistan we were going in to get bin Laden but we went in and we got him. And along that same vein of not telling a country, is there, you worked in the CIA for years, is there any kind of special ops team that does this kind of thing? He's a fugitive. He's wanted for espionage.

BAKER: I think there's -- its apples and oranges. You're talking about bin Laden. The dynamics entirely different. I'll raise one point. With the bin Laden issue, it was -- I don't think -- Obama and the White House understood that, you know, this operation, the potential and the decision about whether to actually go in and get bin Laden would not be kept secret forever. So, there was no interest in being known as the president who didn't go in and get bin Laden when we knew where he was. So, I think that was one of the driving dynamics of this.

With Snowden, it's an entirely different world. There are a lot of people here, many of them in the current administration's sort of base, that view him as a hero. And so, in a sense I'm wondering how much of appetite, you know, within the White House they have for getting their hands on him, bringing him back, and then the spectacle that would be his trial.

BALDWIN: What do you think, Mike Baker, just finally, best case scenario? The likelihood, I think you've already answered this, of getting him home to face these charges?

BAKER: Brooke, that's a great question. And when this story first broke, I mean, I -- you know, I completely miscalculated. I said I could not imagine the Chinese authorities would not be convinced to cooperate with us on this issue. Because they wouldn't want to bend their spear or potentially damage the relationship over something like this. Well, I think in a sense, I mean, I really misplayed that. And I didn't understand, I suppose, just how -- our relationship currently is with the Chinese authorities. And you know, to the lack of leverage that we currently have with them.

So, you know, he's in Moscow likely right now, probably in the transit area of the Moscow airport. The Russians certainly have no obligation to be seen as playing with us and sharing well. So, if he does end up in Ecuador which, you know, by all accounts is sort of the direction he's heading, you know, the Ecuadoran government is famously anti- American right now. So, he could well actually be given asylum there and we may not get our hands on him which to me is, again extremely surprising.

BALDWIN: Yes. We're still waiting to hear how Ecuador responds. We know he's filed. We just need to see if Ecuador will take him.

Mike Baker, thank you so much for joining me here.

Meantime, the royal family in England is ready to welcome the new member of their family. The duchess of Cambridge will be giving birth very soon. And it will be much different than baby deliveries here in the U.S. that is not because she is a royal. More on that, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It won't be long now where watchers believe the duchess of Cambridge is in her final weeks of pregnancy. We know a few things. We know she will be giving birth at St. Mary's hospital in west London. That is the same hospital where Princess Diana gave birth to both Princes William and Harry. And now, gossip abounds about how she might choose to give birth.

Our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, found that when it comes to delivering a baby, some of the details are pretty different on the other side of the pond.


ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bets are in, literally. Brits are wagering on not just when Kate will give birth, but how.

RUPERT ADAMS, WILLIAM HILL BETTING SHOPS: Will she be too -- is it going to be a cesarean section or natural birth?

COHEN: Most people are putting their money on a c-section. But, that may be a bad bet.

ADAMS: She wants to be the new people's princess, she wants to be normal.

COHEN: And in England, normal is natural. C-section rates are about 30 percent lower than in the United States. Kate's royal birth may be a royal pain. In England, fewer than three out of 10 women have epidurals compared to at least six out of 10 women in the states. The delivery rooms at Hoeferton (ph) Hospital in London are actually designed to avoid epidurals. Instead, moms can have aquadurals.

(On-camera): So this is a birthing pool. Women give birth under water. Now, in the United States, water births are considered, well, kind of fringy. But here in Britain, they are normal.

PHILIPPA COX, MIDWIFE: The water may be all she needs.

COHEN (voice-over): If Kate wanted a tub, William could be right there with her. So dad is in the pool, too?

COX: Can be, yes. We usually encourage them to wear trunks and a t- shirt.

COHEN: There's also a birthing chair. If Kate wanted one of these contractions she'd sit in front and William behind her.

And so, this is kind of instead of an epidural.

COX: Yes.

COHEN: She grabs on to this and feels better.

COX: Also it probably helps when pinching their husbands.

COHEN: A pain drug almost unheard of in the U.S. is quite common here, laughing gas.

APRIL RICHARDS, PREGNANT MOTHER: It doesn't make you laugh, even though it's called laughing gas.

COHEN: So, nothing's funny right now.

RICHARDS: No. Nothing is funny.


BALDWIN: That was Elizabeth Cohen reporting there in Washington.

The Senate votes on immigration in just a couple of hours. And that could put the speaker of the house in an awkward position. We'll talk to Jake Tapper about that next.


BALDWIN: It is party time in Miami today where the world champion, Heat, are celebrating their big NBA championship. Check them out. Lebron James and teammates. Looks like some cameras as well making their way through the city just a little while ago along with the championship trophy somewhere there, of course.

They know the route well. They won the title last year, too. Rachel Nichols was in Miami covering the end of it. She's back in New York.

And Rachel, you, last time I saw you, you had the head band. Then you got the man. You had the sit-down with king James himself. How is he doing? Pretty good, I imagine?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes. He's kind of happy. You know, it's a good summer to be Lebron James. He's getting married this summer to his high school sweetheart. He's got his second NBA championship trophy. I would say things are going pretty well in his world.

And this is a guy that undergoes such intense scrutiny, Brooke, that he can't even be on his phone or social media or anything during the playoffs because it's so distracting. Everyone has an opinion on him. But the good side of that intensity is when you win, you win big. Talk a listen.


LEBRON JAMES CARVILLE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: MIAMI HEAT NBA PLAYER: Last year you kind of -- the time went by so fast. You know, and it's like, wow. Did I really just -- it's gone. It's gone like that. So, I want to make sure I take full advantage of this one.

NICHOLS: After you won your title last year you said it was the toughest thing you'd ever done. After you won the title this year you said you were going to go back and tell the guy from last year, no, no, no. This is the toughest thing you've ever done. Why.

JAMES: Right. So, I guess, I want to say I apologize to you because I lied to you last year.

NICHOLS: You did, directly to my face.

JAMES: This one right here was definitely tougher. I tell you one thing. I love the feeling.

NICHOLS: I know during the playoffs you try to tune out all that outside noise. That you get off social media, you turn in your phone and that kind of thing.

JAMES: Right.

NICHOLS: So, what do you do?

JAMES: I watch a lot of old basketball finals games, playoff games. Watch some TV series. Some TV shows. I rip through 24, a few seasons of that. I watched a lot of the old bull finals games.

NICHOLS: So Michael Jordan and Kiefer Sutherland got you through it playoffs?

JAMES: Got me through it.

NICHOLS: You've been in the public eye since you were 16 years old. When you came down to Miami, it's the first time you've ever been away from home. I mean, you know, from that kid to this man getting married is a big change.

JAMES: Even though I played for Cleveland for seven years I still lived in my hometown of Akron. I was in Akron for 25 straight years. And that's all I knew -- all my friends, my family. When I made that change, it was very challenging for me. It's made me, I guess, grow. It's made me comfortable. And play the game of basketball at a higher level.

NICHOLS: Being more of a grownup now, being more comfortable, and being an adult, it can't be a coincidence that you feel that way off the court. And then professionally, you're in the best time professionally of your life winning two championships.

JAMES: Right. Timing. Timing. Just try to take full advantage of it.


NICHOLS: Brooke, I love that idea. That the most powerful, talented basketball player in the world is just like the rest of us, that the first time you leave home, you get your shaky little wings out, you kind of test out the world and it teaches you new things. Smacks up aside the head a few times. You become a better, more strong person in the world because of it. And that is why he feels he is professionally where he is, personally, as I said; he's getting married to the mother of his two young sons, high school sweetheart. So, it is good to be Lebron James right now. And turns out he's just like the rest of us. Who knew you could say that about Lebron?

BALDWIN: Just like the rest of us. Listen to you, Rachel Nichols.

Let me ask you, though, just because he brought up number 23, you know, when you do the math, I was reading an article in one of the papers this morning. When you stack up the MVPs, the rings, the finals, et cetera, at age 28 when you do the king James versus is earnest comparison he's already surpassed Michael Jordan.

NICHOLS: Well, here's the reason why Lebron James is talking about staying off social media during the playoffs, because his career isn't even finished yet. And all those articles and all of those twitter comments are happening in realtime with him. It such a strange time to be a pro athlete. Your legacy is being written, unwritten with every game that you play. And I think when it's all over he will be a pretty interesting comparison to Michael Jordan. But we will have to see. He's only got two rings. Michael had six.

BALDWIN: Rachel Nichols, great interview. Thank you so much. Good to see you.

Coming up next, news on everyone and everything including the search is over. Rusty "the red panda" had zoo workers in D.C. pretty nervous when he wasn't in his cage this morning.

CNN crews were there within the last hour when he was captured. We have the video.

Plus, two big changes when you get your latte fix on in the morning at Starbucks. One has to do with your wallet, the other, your health.

And why actor Jim Carrey is having second thoughts about his latest role. The power block coming up next.

But first, it is CNN's unique look at innovators who are changing the world. Here's a preview of this week's "the Next List."


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This week on "The Next List," changing the lives of children born with shoulder injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Nathan was born, nerves were torn in his shoulder. And he couldn't move his arm at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things the doctors asked us to do was help them understood what the shoulder blade was doing in individual patients.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The type of research he does is very cutting edge, things that have never been done before.

JIM RICHARDS, BIOMECHANIST, UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE: What we bring to the table is the ability to analyze human motion without involving radiation. A long-term goal of that is to be able to provide us with somewhat of a what if scenario. So, what if we took this tendon and moved it to a different attachment point. How would it affect the child's movement? So a surgeon can in essence perform the surgery to see what the outcome would be on the computer before ever working with the patient.

DR. SCOTT KOZIN, SHRINERS HOSPITAL FOR CHILDREN: Jim's work is extremely innovative. He has changed the world of care for people.

GUPTA: Watch how Jim Richards' 3D models are redefining the way surgeons treat children.

This Saturday 2:30 p.m. eastern on "The Next List."


BALDWIN: A new report on the IRS targeting conservative political groups has just come out. And what we have learned is that the agency's deputy commissioner says the to be on the lookout list, it helps the IRS figure out who to target are no longer use. But CNN has obtained a documents that some of the lists were being referred to as recently as this month. The report also says there was no sign of intentional wrongdoing or outside influence. The findings of the full report will be the focus of a house hearing this Thursday.

And it seems to be a pretty hot topic for both political parties, that being immigration. The Senate will vote on immigration in just a couple hours. And that could put the speaker of the house in an interesting position.

CNN's Jake Tapper, host of "THE LEAD" is following that for us.

Jake, set up the vote for us.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Well, the first, big important vote is the vote to increase border security. Anyway Senate sources on the democratic and Republican side say they expect that it will pass, this amendment will be allowed to join the larger overall immigration reform bill. They do not think it will get much more over 60 votes but it will clear the 60-vote hurdle.

And then later in the week, there will be a whole bunch of other amendments. And then later in the week, there will be final vote likely this week on immigration reform. And these same sources say they expect that the final bill will pass with an even greater number than the key amendment today.

But here's the rub and, Brooke, you nailed it, will this be able to get through the house? Right now that is a big, big question. Even if there is overwhelming support for this immigration reform bill in the Senate, the idea of whether or not John Boehner, the speaker of the house, would even bring it up for a vote is very much in question -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, so immigration. What else, Jake Tapper, do you have up your sleeve for the next, hour? TAPPER: Well, we'll be talking to Glenn Greenwald, "the Guardian" columnist about Ed Snowden, the mystery of where Snowden is. We will also be talking Glenn about his role with Snowden and Snowden's leaks. Over the weekend, there was something of a dust-up between Glenn and a correspondent on another network and we'll talk to him about the role that Glenn Greenwald actually played.

And then, obviously, we will be talking about Nelson Mandela, we will be talking about Starbucks' new ruling that they're going to decide they are going to post all the calorie counts for all their food stuff, yes. And so, everybody will get to know exactly how many calories are in those drinks --

BALDWIN: Mocha frapha.

TAPPER: We're going to have our hash tag challenge, Brooke. You really should be entering these. I don't know why you're not. But you have the has tag challenge on twitter, will be to come up with new names for your favorite Starbucks treats.

BALDWIN: Interesting.

TAPPER: And ones that hue more to the reality of what you are putting in your body. So, for instance, my humble example would be the fattachino. That's my entry into hash tag and it may have to win. But hopefully you will be joining.

BALDWIN: Let me marinate it on that, Tapper, and I will enter into said challenge. I will bring it.

Jake Tapper, thank you very much. We will see you in a couple of minutes on "the Lead."

TAPPER: That's good.

BALDWIN: And now technology, and sports, business, health, science, showbiz news. We hit it all for you right now what we call the power bluff beginning with the panda story. Little red panda disappeared at the national zoo in Washington today, rescued within the past hour or so.

Brian Todd, this guy's been all over the story for us today. Let me go back to you, Brian Todd. What's the very latest?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, the very latest is very good news here at the national zoo that Rusty, the red panda, has been captured, crated and brought back here to the national zoo. He's at the zoo hospital for a few days while they monitor his health. They say he has no signs, no visible signs of injury or ill health right now but they'll monitor him for a few days before they put him back into the exhibit he escaped in.

We spoke to a home owner whose yard Rusty was found in a little over an hour ago. He talked about the chaos and this yard's name is Erik Alda. Here's what he had to say.


ERIK ALDA, HOMEOWNER: I came back from having lunch with a friend and then I saw people with nets and, you know, police cars and everything. And then I asked what was going on and they told me there was an animal that, you know, apparently was seen in the back of my house. So I offered to let them in the house to see if they could, you know, spot him. And apparently they did. So, that's good. I'm glad they managed to catch him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Were you worried at all?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Not afraid of a red panda?

ALDA: No. They're pretty calm animals, aren't they?


TODD: I talked to my colleague, Athena Jones, earlier today about the chaos around his house. There was another actually -- Rusty. They had alerted the zoo authorities as to his possible location. They were able to zero in on his location and surround him and lure him into some nets and then into a crate, Brooke. So there was a very dramatic kind of recapture. Another big question, how did he get out? These are boreal animals. That means tree dwelling, they sleep in trees, they climb a lot. That could have been one of the reasons that he got out. But they're investigating that now. They don't think --

BALDWIN: Did we lose him? Brian Todd at the national zoo. Bottom line, red Panda, rescued.

Actor Jim Carey having some serious second thoughts about his new film. Carey tweeted on Sunday that he can no longer support this movie because he says it's too violent. Carey said the Sandy Hook massacre, which happened right after he finished the movie, changed his mind. The creator of the comic said the movies were based on said he respected Carey's views but urged the actor to reconsider withdrawing his promotional support.

And did you see this dare devil walk across the Grand Canyon over the weekend on a tightrope? We'll show you the amazing video next.


BALDWIN: It was one of those I'm never going to do this in my life, glad another guy did it moment. High wire Walker Nick Wallenda walked across the quarter mile wide little Colorado river board near the grand canyon Sunday. Makes me want to hold my breath, 1,500 feet in the air. It took him almost, slow and steady, 23 minutes. I'm sure it felt much longer than that. This stunt was carried live on the discovery channel. And if you remember last year, he walked across Niagara Falls. Nick Wallenda is the grandson of Carl Wallenda, who launched the famous flying Wallenda circus act in the 1920s.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. See back her tomorrow. In the meantime, "the Lead" with Jake Tapper starts now.

TAPPER: How do you catch a man who already knows all the tricks you are using to try to find him? I'm Jake tapper and this is the LEAD.

The world LEAD, he keeps zigging when he's expected to be zagging. Edward Snowden, the man whose been spilling U.S. intelligence secrets is on the move, but where is his final destination?